Jump to content

Long Covid and its Effects


Recommended Posts

Much of our discussion in these forums about Covid (and vaccines) has centered around the risks of hospitalization and death.  I have started to do some reading about long Covid and the longer term effects of Covid.

I am unfamiliar with the topic.  

This study from University of Oxford suggests that 37% of a population of 270,000 had at least one long-COVID symptom diagnosed in the 3-6 month period after COVID-19 infection.

Using similar data a sub group of the researchers produced  This study focused on the neurological impact of long covid. It seems fairly rigorous to me .  The study group comprised 236 000 patients diagnosed with COVID-19, and two  control cohorts comprised 106 000 patients diagnosed with influenza and 236 000 patients diagnosed with any respiratory tract infection excluding covid. They concluded that:

COVID-19 was robustly associated with an increased risk of neurological and psychiatric disorders in the 6 months after a diagnosis. Given the size of the pandemic and the chronicity of many of the diagnoses and their consequences (eg, dementia, stroke, and intracranial haemorrhage), substantial effects on health and social care systems are likely to occur.

Notably in the study cohort the risk of a stroke rose to 1 in 10 post covid.

CDC has this to say about post covid . It is an overview.

I havent done much searching or reading. Feel free to share anything you think relevant. The incidence of long covid was higher than I realized.

One of the symptoms of long covid is brain fog, difficulty in thinking, difficulty in analysis and decision making. I have noticed the Wess, who has had Covid, has become noticeably less coherent in his posts over the past year. 

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, EYESAILOR said:

Much of our discussion in these forums about Covid (and vaccines) has centered around the risks of hospitalization and death.  I have started to do some reading about long Covid and the longer term effects of Covid.

I am unfamiliar with the topic.  

This study from University of Oxford suggests that 37% of a population of 270,000 had at least one long-COVID symptom diagnosed in the 3-6 month period after COVID-19 infection.

Using similar data a sub group of the researchers produced  This study focused on the neurological impact of long covid. It seems fairly rigorous to me .  The study group comprised 236 000 patients diagnosed with COVID-19, and two  control cohorts comprised 106 000 patients diagnosed with influenza and 236 000 patients diagnosed with any respiratory tract infection excluding covid. They concluded that:

COVID-19 was robustly associated with an increased risk of neurological and psychiatric disorders in the 6 months after a diagnosis. Given the size of the pandemic and the chronicity of many of the diagnoses and their consequences (eg, dementia, stroke, and intracranial haemorrhage), substantial effects on health and social care systems are likely to occur.

Notably in the study cohort the risk of a stroke rose to 1 in 10 post covid.

CDC has this to say about post covid . It is an overview.

I havent done much searching or reading. Feel free to share anything you think relevant. The incidence of long covid was higher than I realized.

One of the symptoms of long covid is brain fog, difficulty in thinking, difficulty in analysis and decision making. I have noticed the Wess, who has had Covid, has become noticeably less coherent in his posts over the past year. 

An interesting subject, I too have noticed an irrational edge to posts by Wess. Do you think it's ethical for a medical professional to comment on a fellow poster in this way?

Link to post
Share on other sites
45 minutes ago, Terry Hollis said:

An interesting subject, I too have noticed an irrational edge to posts by Wess. Do you think it's ethical for a medical professional to comment on a fellow poster in this way?

I actually dont mind Wess and it was meant in humor.....but I think it crossed a line. If I could remove it I would. Apologies.  not as a medical professional (its not a professional opinion) but as a fellow poster.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I am not a medical professional and am not subject to the Goldwater Rule. Is Wess a public figure? What fun. Anyway his posts read as less rational as the easy objections he can make dwindle and the possibility he's in error rises. 

Ethics are such fun they are why nobody said the former guy was unhinged and left it to the military to prevent nuclear launches. 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I avoided this forum for some time because of the aholes who trolled here - this should be and lately has become a place to share and gain information from those who have something to contribute.  The 2 unnamed ones who have different goals are on ignore and will stay that way - it's better than they deserve.

Thanks for those who are contributing - this pandemic has altered my life and work in a myriad of ways the latest being trying to help those affected by Ida in Louisiana.  There is only one way out.  Get the shot.

Link to post
Share on other sites
57 minutes ago, EYESAILOR said:

I actually dont mind Wess and it was meant in humor.....but I think it crossed a line. If I could remove it I would. Apologies.  not as a medical professional (its not a professional opinion) but as a fellow poster.

I don't think you owe any apologies at all. There are a few SA'ers who come here solely to spread harmful disinformation, and they deserve to have more than their feelings hurt if possible.

On the topic of Long Covid, yes it's a problem and the understanding of it is still emerging/evolving. It really hasn't gotten much attention. It will be a far more significant problem IMHO in years to come. One thing is pretty clear, there are more people with it than have died of covid.

- DSK

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

I would be interested in knowing whether the incidence of long covid is as high in breakthrough cases as it is in the unvaccinated.  We know that hospitalization and death is much lower in breakthrough, but does that apply to long covid as well?

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Rain Man said:

I would be interested in knowing whether the incidence of long covid is as high in breakthrough cases as it is in the unvaccinated.  We know that hospitalization and death is much lower in breakthrough, but does that apply to long covid as well?

Uncharted territory, I'm afraid.

The virus and the disease are very young, we've had not even two years of even being aware of them.

The long term effects will only get known in, well, the long term. At least if fact based science keeps being used.

Guesstimates might work but are dangerously close to BS. Facts will prevail, I hope.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Rain Man said:

I would be interested in knowing whether the incidence of long covid is as high in breakthrough cases as it is in the unvaccinated.  We know that hospitalization and death is much lower in breakthrough, but does that apply to long covid as well?

That is a good question, if I were a betting man I'd bet on the more severe immediate symptoms correlating to more severe long term symptoms but that is just guessing using common sense.

Personally I'm hoping here in sunny Qld to not get it at all, I like my vascular system and ability to concentrate - 92km on my bike last week, came 1st in Obisidian league DuoLingo Japanese course :p  

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Rain Man said:

I would be interested in knowing whether the incidence of long covid is as high in breakthrough cases as it is in the unvaccinated.  We know that hospitalization and death is much lower in breakthrough, but does that apply to long covid as well?

Well, if you are vaccinated you are significantly less likely to get covid, so that is a good thing. Then the study broke its cohorts down by severity of disease and found that those who were hospitalized before recovery were significantly more likely to suffer from long covid..  The positive cases who are vaccinated are substantially less likely to be hospitalized so that is more of a good thing 

However there will be a small %age of vaccinated individuals who will get a more severe breakthrough. This provides another line of defense. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, EYESAILOR said:

I actually dont mind Wess and it was meant in humor.....but I think it crossed a line. If I could remove it I would. Apologies.  not as a medical professional (its not a professional opinion) but as a fellow poster.

I don't have any problem with attacks on fellow posters, this is anarchy after all, I was asking about your position as a medical professional but I suppose that depends on the context of the post.

As for @Wess, he has not yet earned a place in my Ignore list mainly because I found his earlier posts quite sound and although I did not agree with everything he said I now find some of his posts irrational.

Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, EYESAILOR said:

Much of our discussion in these forums about Covid (and vaccines) has centered around the risks of hospitalization and death.  I have started to do some reading about long Covid and the longer term effects of Covid.

I am unfamiliar with the topic.  

This study from University of Oxford suggests that 37% of a population of 270,000 had at least one long-COVID symptom diagnosed in the 3-6 month period after COVID-19 infection.

Using similar data a sub group of the researchers produced  This study focused on the neurological impact of long covid. It seems fairly rigorous to me .  The study group comprised 236 000 patients diagnosed with COVID-19, and two  control cohorts comprised 106 000 patients diagnosed with influenza and 236 000 patients diagnosed with any respiratory tract infection excluding covid. They concluded that:

COVID-19 was robustly associated with an increased risk of neurological and psychiatric disorders in the 6 months after a diagnosis. Given the size of the pandemic and the chronicity of many of the diagnoses and their consequences (eg, dementia, stroke, and intracranial haemorrhage), substantial effects on health and social care systems are likely to occur.

Notably in the study cohort the risk of a stroke rose to 1 in 10 post covid.

CDC has this to say about post covid . It is an overview.

I havent done much searching or reading. Feel free to share anything you think relevant. The incidence of long covid was higher than I realized.

One of the symptoms of long covid is brain fog, difficulty in thinking, difficulty in analysis and decision making. I have noticed the Wess, who has had Covid, has become noticeably less coherent in his posts over the past year. 

 

how does this compare to "long flu"?

Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, EYESAILOR said:

Much of our discussion in these forums about Covid (and vaccines) has centered around the risks of hospitalization and death.  I have started to do some reading about long Covid and the longer term effects of Covid.

I am unfamiliar with the topic.  

This study from University of Oxford suggests that 37% of a population of 270,000 had at least one long-COVID symptom diagnosed in the 3-6 month period after COVID-19 infection.

Using similar data a sub group of the researchers produced  This study focused on the neurological impact of long covid. It seems fairly rigorous to me .  The study group comprised 236 000 patients diagnosed with COVID-19, and two  control cohorts comprised 106 000 patients diagnosed with influenza and 236 000 patients diagnosed with any respiratory tract infection excluding covid. They concluded that:

COVID-19 was robustly associated with an increased risk of neurological and psychiatric disorders in the 6 months after a diagnosis. Given the size of the pandemic and the chronicity of many of the diagnoses and their consequences (eg, dementia, stroke, and intracranial haemorrhage), substantial effects on health and social care systems are likely to occur.

Notably in the study cohort the risk of a stroke rose to 1 in 10 post covid.

CDC has this to say about post covid . It is an overview.

I havent done much searching or reading. Feel free to share anything you think relevant. The incidence of long covid was higher than I realized.

One of the symptoms of long covid is brain fog, difficulty in thinking, difficulty in analysis and decision making. I have noticed the Wess, who has had Covid, has become noticeably less coherent in his posts over the past year. 

 

 

01BD88D2-8AC9-4702-8D3D-600884A3912F.png

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Kate short for Bob said:

how does this compare to "long flu"?

If you took the time to just read the post let alone glance at the study itself you would have read that one of the control groups was 108,000 patients who had influenza.

Covid has significantly more long term impact than flu according to the Oxford studies

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Kate short for Bob said:

how does this compare to "long flu"?

I assume you jest? It's pretty rare to have long term impact from the flu. I do, was one of the unfortunates who had a nasty bout of myocarditis in my late teens from the flu, but you don't hear about this type of issue too often. At the time, I think the risk was assessed at 2/million, and my case ended up in the literature. I believe one of the reasons the assessed risk was so low, is that it was hard to diagnose at the time. I do read more about it these days, but that could just be my bias to look for it, and social channels for myocarditis survivors and families. 37% seems a bit higher than 2/million. To me, anyway. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, NeedAClew said:

Where is Wess anyhow? On a vent? Doing job interviews with Fox? Extra hours on DoorDash? Promoted and SES job has computer they monitor? 

I think his "Laser" sank out from under him, and he's swimming to shore. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Raz'r said:

I think his "Laser" sank out from under him, and he's swimming to shore. 

 

Should have used a Star Boat.

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, Grog said:

 

Should have used a Star Boat.

 

Or maybe a real boat, like an ILCA...

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, EYESAILOR said:

If you took the time to just read the post let alone glance at the study itself you would have read that one of the control groups was 108,000 patients who had influenza.

My apologies however the link you posted goes to a news article.  Neither your post nor that article have a link to the actual research.

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Raz'r said:

I assume you jest? It's pretty rare to have long term impact from the flu.

No I don't jest.  My mother died from the after effects of a bad flu.  I assume it was myocarditis.  That was 32 years ago.

7 hours ago, Raz'r said:

37% seems a bit higher than 2/million. To me, anyway. 

The 37% included all symptoms most of which are not serious.  Let alone easy to clinically measure.

For example the 15% anxiety/depression could be attributed to a number of things rather than just Covid-19.  

From the article:

The nine core long-COVID symptoms, occurring 90-180 days after COVID-19 was diagnosed, comprise:

  • Abnormal breathing – 8%
  • Abdominal symptoms – 8%
  • Anxiety/depression – 15%
  • Chest/throat pain – 6%
  • Cognitive problems (‘brain fog’) – 4%
  • Fatigue – 6%
  • Headache – 5%
  • Myalgia (muscle pain) – 1.5%
  • Other pain – 7%
  • Any of the above features – 37%

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

No I don't jest.  My mother died from the after effects of a bad flu.  I assume it was myocarditis.  That was 32 years ago.

The 37% included all symptoms most of which are not serious.

 

Sorry to hear it, myocarditis is no joke. They still don't know if it's the virus, or the fever that kicks off the inflammation. There isn't enough of it for it to get the attention needed to find treatments. As my cardio said "Myocarditis is a shitty condition to try to treat" - my response wasn't very nice "It ain't that great to have it, either"

Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

Sorry to hear it, myocarditis is no joke. They still don't know if it's the virus, or the fever that kicks off the inflammation. There isn't enough of it for it to get the attention needed to find treatments. As my cardio said "Myocarditis is a shitty condition to try to treat" - my response wasn't very nice "It ain't that great to have it, either"

Yes I understand what you are going through more than you realise.  In your case getting vaccinated is the only option.

My mother died at age 58 from the after affects of a bad flu.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Kate short for Bob said:

Yes I understand what you are going through more than you realise.  In your case getting vaccinated is the only option.

My mother died at age 58 from the after affects of a bad flu.

Really sorry to hear it. Way too young.

Link to post
Share on other sites

My grandparents died from the Spanish/Kansas flu, orphaning 3 little kids who were shipped back by boat to remaining family in Europe alone. Global pandemics are a bitch.

Link to post
Share on other sites

There was a young man standing with our premier today to describe the effects that  long covid have had on him

First, he contracted Covid last year before vaccines were available. 18 months ago. 

He was young fit with no underlying conditions.

He was not hospitalized because his case was considered "mild"

He says the "mild" condition caused intermittent terrifying attacks of breathlessness, Aches, pain brain fog and he wouldn't wish this "mild" form on anyone.

For months he couldn't walk a block without sudden sever breathlessness. Even now he gets random attacks that are debilitating. and he's terrified when they happen.

Young, fit and a "mild" case.

at 23.20

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Kate short for Bob said:

My apologies however the link you posted goes to a news article.  Neither your post nor that article have a link to the actual research.

None of the 3 links I posted went to a news article. 
The first went to an announcement from Oxford University. The second went to the detailed study. The third to the cdc site.

My point is that one of the two control groups was 108,000 people who had influenza.  
 

In the study Covid had significantly more longer term adverse effects than flu.  
 

I shared the study because it seems credible, independent and reasonably rigorous. Hopefully more will become available. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, EYESAILOR said:

None of the 3 links I posted went to a news article. 
The first went to an announcement from Oxford University. The second went to the detailed study. The third to the cdc site.

My point is that one of the two control groups was 108,000 people who had influenza.  
 

In the study Covid had significantly more longer term adverse effects than flu.  
 

I shared the study because it seems credible, independent and reasonably rigorous. Hopefully more will become available. 

When are you going to understand that KSFB lies.

He lies purely to create confusion and deflect.

If he's offering you a platform to expand of your posts, fine.

If not, you're simply feeding a trolling sock puppet.

Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, EYESAILOR said:

My point is that one of the two control groups was 108,000 people who had influenza.

How were the influenza cases diagnosed?  PCR testing?

Is it fair to say that influenza cases and effects are generally under-reported?  The CDC notes this on their website.

Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

I don't lie.  State where I have lied?

You have made some statements that were inaccurate.  To give you the benefit of the doubt, I assume they were mistakes. Some of them you have repeated when challenged.

One small example in the last few days is that you stated that the primary cohort (those with the vaccine) in the Pfizer trial was 44,000. I mildly pointed out that was incorrect. You reiterated the number and even suggested that I had posted that (again inaccurate) . I gave up .

Its no big deal .

Why do you care about the total number of unreported influenza cases.  The study used 108,000 diagnosed cases of influenza. The unreported cases are likely milder and would make the comparison even more stark.  Covid had significantly more adverse long term effects compared to diagnosed cases of flu.  If we allow for the fact tht more cases of covid are diagnosed than flu, the then the significance would probably be even greater.

Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, EYESAILOR said:

One small example in the last few days is that you stated that the primary cohort (those with the vaccine) in the Pfizer trial was 44,000. I mildly pointed out that was incorrect

No I said that 44,000 were involved in the initial trial phase. Half of whom received the vaccine I.e. 22,000.  The other half a placebo.  After that first phase the doubled blinded trial was stopped and nearly all of the other 22,000 were vaccinated.  This was the data presented to the FDA.

Is that not correct?

Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, EYESAILOR said:

Why do you care about the total number of unreported influenza cases. 

Because the diagnosis and reporting of influenza is by the CDC's own admission significantly understated.

If you are going to give weight to the significance of the study then surely the method of diagnosis of each disease should be similar.  The Covid-19 diagnosis is by PCR testing I presume.  Were the influenza cases tested similarly?

Had the Covid-19 cases had concurrent or even unreported cases of influenza?

I admit I was assuming you had read the entire paper and large appendices and could give a quick answer.

Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

No I said that 44,000 were involved in the initial trial phase. Half of whom received the vaccine I.e. 22,000.  The other half a placebo.  After that first phase the doubled blinded trial was stopped and nearly all of the other 22,000 were vaccinated.  This was the data presented to the FDA.

Is that not correct?

Thank you for correcting your prior misstatements.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, ShortForBob said:

Sock puppet.

 

Designer Sock Puppet at that, starting with the name and the date of birth.

Add to that 3k+ pieces of plain old BS and trolling in about one year ... well, yeah.

 

When is Captain Obvious coming to the rescue of us poor souls? Or least some sort of Cleaner?

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, Raz'r said:

Sorry to hear it, myocarditis is no joke. They still don't know if it's the virus, or the fever that kicks off the inflammation. There isn't enough of it for it to get the attention needed to find treatments. As my cardio said "Myocarditis is a shitty condition to try to treat" - my response wasn't very nice "It ain't that great to have it, either"

It’s Mikey.  He’s in his early 50’s.  His mom didn’t die from the flu 32 years ago at age 58.  It’s bullshit.  Everything he types is bullshit.  He’s lies are so fucking blatant like that 100 mph ride to the hospital in Manhattan and the Lebanese cab driver.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/5/2021 at 11:14 PM, EYESAILOR said:

Why do you care about the total number of unreported influenza cases. 

Because KSFB is waging a campaign to put the covid genie back in the bottle. It still believes covid is just the sniffles, no worse than the flu. Every comment is tarred with that brush. It doesn't want to learn, it wants to obstruct, it wants to be right. Years down the track it will still be fighting this misinformation campaign. It can't handle the truth that humans don't have as much control over our own destiny as it thought.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Captain Obvious to the rescue, at last! :)

 

But why, oh why, are the formidable owner of this forum and his flock of mods literally non-existant re handling the BS and the bullshitters? Polishing the new deck shoes the ad revenue bought them?

 

(Soak in purple to your liking)

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Grog said:

Captain Obvious to the rescue, at last! :)

 

But why, oh why, are the formidable owner of this forum and his flock of mods literally non-existant re handling the BS and the bullshitters? Polishing the new deck shoes the ad revenue bought them?

 

(Soak in purple to your liking)

 

They did for a while, but I think they have tired of moderating the BS.  I reported sluggo for posting BS a few days ago.  Nada.

At the end of the day, does it really matter if a bunch of BS is posted here?  I think anyone hanging out here knows the difference.

Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, Rain Man said:

They did for a while, but I think they have tired of moderating the BS.  I reported sluggo for posting BS a few days ago.  Nada.

At the end of the day, does it really matter if a bunch of BS is posted here?  I think anyone hanging out here knows the difference.

True, but still kind of sad because harmful bullshit has nothing to do with a somewhat humorous attempt on Anarchy in an elitist sport.

As far as SA is concerned: not my circus, not my clowns. It is Scot's call who decorates his ship.

 

But, does the BS matter? Oh yes, it does! Most likely not to the few members who still read and post on Qrona Anarchy, but the algorithms of Facebook, Google, Twitter, YouTube, YouNameIt do not distinguish between BS and relevant info - they just gobble up anything and adjust their feeds to escalate topics because it generates clicks and impressions.

The BS thus helps with poor vaccination rates, with spray-tanned grifters for President, with Brexits, using any cheap shot to further digital mass hysteria for profit, only with seriously fucked up real world outcomes. The single posts don't matter that much but the millions of them across forums, blogs, videos, social media and so on accumulate, automatically, and this shit has spun way out of control.

 

Disclaimer: I don't want to come across as the nervous tin foil hat wearer next door. I have worked these systems and have designed database backends for a couple of years to sell goods via social media. It worked. Then it became politicised in unprecedented ways. It got really ugly real fast and is still getting worse. I have retired from that line of work some time ago because of that.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

That's why I try to respond sometimes to the crap that KFSB and others spew, but without quoting them to limit their damage.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, TheDragon said:

That's why I try to respond sometimes to the crap that KFSB and others spew, but without quoting them to limit their damage.

Like your unscientific stance on lengthening the time between the first and second dose of the vaccine against the manufacturers advice?  Mmmmmm NZ went for 6 weeks and now say 2 weeks is better.  Weren't you talking months?

Whereas I the one who according to you spews crap was recommending that the manufacturers recommendations should be followed given they had done all the trials and should know.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/11/2021 at 2:08 PM, Ncik said:

Because KSFB is waging a campaign to put the covid genie back in the bottle. It still believes covid is just the sniffles, no worse than the flu. Every comment is tarred with that brush. It doesn't want to learn, it wants to obstruct, it wants to be right. Years down the track it will still be fighting this misinformation campaign. It can't handle the truth that humans don't have as much control over our own destiny as it thought.

I find the covid deniers that I know took a position early on in the pandemic that it was just the flu are too proud (or self absorbed) to change that view even in the face of overwhelming evidence. This has lead them to grasp at straws on Facebook, share utter bullshit they find on the interwebs and led them by the nose down in to the rabbit hole of conspiracy theories. Even as the rabbit hole took them into a sewer they still can not admit they were wrong. They now find former friends distancing themselves from them, employment and travel harder to find and they now are prepared to choose death or illness over reality by non conformity. 

Trump supporters probably started out the same way.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yep. Here the COVID found a guy running things who has spent his life learning that backing down from a position means you are nothing but a spineless bitch.  Add that to the myth of sunken costs and you have a hell of a combination. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Kate short for Bob said:

Like your unscientific stance on lengthening the time between the first and second dose of the vaccine against the manufacturers advice?  Mmmmmm NZ went for 6 weeks and now say 2 weeks is better.  Weren't you talking months?

Whereas I the one who according to you spews crap was recommending that the manufacturers recommendations should be followed given they had done all the trials and should know.  

The current recommendation in NZ for the second jab pfiver is 3 weeks, 

https://covid19.govt.nz/covid-19-vaccines/how-to-get-a-covid-19-vaccination/getting-your-second-dose/#when-to-get-your-second-dose

It was originally extended when NZ had a supply issue and it was considered more important for people to get their 1st jab to make better use of the limited supplies of pfiver than that get the second jab.  Now that the supply issue has been resolved they have reverted to the original 3 week space between jabs.

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Terry Hollis said:

The current recommendation in NZ for the second jab pfiver is 3 weeks, 

https://covid19.govt.nz/covid-19-vaccines/how-to-get-a-covid-19-vaccination/getting-your-second-dose/#when-to-get-your-second-dose

It was originally extended when NZ had a supply issue and it was considered more important for people to get their 1st jab to make better use of the limited supplies of pfiver than that get the second jab.  Now that the supply issue has been resolved they have reverted to the original 3 week space between jabs.

Which proves my point.  Nothing to do with Manufacturers recommendations nor trial data but political reasons.

Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

Which proves my point.  Nothing to do with Manufacturers recommendations nor trial data but political reasons.

Logistical reasons, but you be you.

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Kate short for Bob said:

Like your unscientific stance on lengthening the time between the first and second dose of the vaccine against the manufacturers advice?  Mmmmmm NZ went for 6 weeks and now say 2 weeks is better.  Weren't you talking months?

Whereas I the one who according to you spews crap was recommending that the manufacturers recommendations should be followed given they had done all the trials and should know.  

 

31 minutes ago, Terry Hollis said:

The current recommendation in NZ for the second jab pfiver is 3 weeks, 

https://covid19.govt.nz/covid-19-vaccines/how-to-get-a-covid-19-vaccination/getting-your-second-dose/#when-to-get-your-second-dose

It was originally extended when NZ had a supply issue and it was considered more important for people to get their 1st jab to make better use of the limited supplies of pfiver than that get the second jab.  Now that the supply issue has been resolved they have reverted to the original 3 week space between jabs.

 

24 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

Which proves my point.  Nothing to do with Manufacturers recommendations nor trial data but political reasons.

It has nothing to do with politics, pfiver have always recommended 3 to 6 weeks as being an acceptable gap between jabs.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/second-shot.html

Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

Logistical reasons, but you be you.

Caused by ineptitude by the NZ Government.  However as I pointed out to @Terry Hollis the post was directed at @TheDragon who has a selective definition of misinformation where he was promoting a significant departure from the Pzifer recommendations.  Many of you agreed but now you are all promoting the recommendations.  I guess the narrative takes precedence over consistency.

Also @Terry Hollis and @Raz'r note that I consistently promoted following the Pzifer recommendations not the misguided and uninformed rants of @TheDragon.  Hardly the actions of an antivaxxer!

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

Well that's all good then @Terry Hollis  However the post was directed at @TheDragon who long advocated against the Pfizer recommendations by a considerable margin.

First you alleged that the NZ Govt. recommended 2 weeks between jabs, when I proved that you were wrong about that you claim that you were answering @TheDragon sorry about that, perhaps you should have responded to @TheDragon post rather than mine because some of us are not mind readers.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, LB 15 said:

I find the covid deniers that I know took a position early on in the pandemic that it was just the flu are too proud (or self absorbed) to change that view even in the face of overwhelming evidence. This has lead them to grasp at straws on Facebook, share utter bullshit they find on the interwebs and led them by the nose down in to the rabbit hole of conspiracy theories. Even as the rabbit hole took them into a sewer they still can not admit they were wrong. They now find former friends distancing themselves from them, employment and travel harder to find and they now are prepared to choose death or illness over reality by non conformity. 

Trump supporters probably started out the same way.

the ones i have met have all effectively painted themselves into a corner

where pride and fear of being wrong has concreted them to the spot

who wants to admit they are officially and undeniably a wack job tin hatter

from what i have tried .. they just aint moving  .. ever

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, Terry Hollis said:

First you alleged that the NZ Govt. recommended 2 weeks between jabs, when I proved that you were wrong about that you claim that you were answering @TheDragon sorry about that, perhaps you should have responded to @TheDragon post rather than mine because some of us are not mind readers.

FFS I did respond to @TheDragon's post in the first instance - you are the one that jumped in!!!

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, LB 15 said:

I find the covid deniers that I know took a position early on in the pandemic that it was just the flu are too proud (or self absorbed) to change that view even in the face of overwhelming evidence. This has lead them to grasp at straws on Facebook, share utter bullshit they find on the interwebs and led them by the nose down in to the rabbit hole of conspiracy theories. Even as the rabbit hole took them into a sewer they still can not admit they were wrong. They now find former friends distancing themselves from them, employment and travel harder to find and they now are prepared to choose death or illness over reality by non conformity. 

Trump supporters probably started out the same way.

A few acquaintances have shifted position from various levels of denial, they're not all idiots. Getting the jab seems like a move in the right direction to me anyway.

Some are still steadfastly adhering to the conspiracies though. I try to avoid them as much as possible, it's demoralising to hear their nonsense and tiring to debate them. Regularly asking my elderly parents if they'd been vaxxed and calling bullshit on anything that was bullshit turned them around. No debating the merits of bullshit.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, phill_nz said:

from what i have tried .. they just aint moving  .. ever

Yep they just dig in harder. Google is research apparently. I don't waste my time on them anymore, maybe when this shit show is over I might resume some kind of friendship with them again, but I will never respect them again. There has been a lot of discussion about mental health caused by the pandemic. but they are not talking about the complete insanity of refusing to be vaccinated.  Charles Darwin knew his shit..

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm very glad to have delayed my Moderna second shot for two months instead of the recommended one month. It allowed someone else to get their first shot a month earlier than they otherwise would have in the midst of our second wave and it almost certainly conferred greater immunity on me (I had managed to avoid the virus for a year and was confident I could do it for an extra month). I have no regrets and continue to believe it is the best approach. I note that many experts more versed in immunology than me recommended even longer intervals of three months, and some governments agreed with them, e.g. in the UK. I fully understand why NZ went from 6 to 3 weeks given their dire need to get as much of their population double shot as possible in the face of the battle with delta they are sadly slowly losing. Even if that results in dwindling immunity levels as Israel and the US are experiencing with the Pfizer vaccine six months later, the immediate need is to get people their second shot. They can always offer boosters later. All of this makes complete rational sense to lots of people far more knowledgeable than our resident troll. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Waiting your choice. But you just let someone else get an appointment slot, perhaps. No shortage of Moderna. 

I am pleased with our results that we unknowingly hit the jackpot with what they were giving out the day we went. The other sites had Pfizer 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...