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Wow, what a weekend.

First of all the new cutless bearing did not solve the vibration issue. Something else is going on. More on that later, I have a few new theories.

Second, I capsized my Dyer dinghy during the Mid-Atlantic Small Craft Festival race. I made a bad tack, got stuck in irons, drifting towards a pricey cruising catamaran, then the sail filled and sent me into the cat like a rocket. To protect their hull, I lunged forward to prevent contact and drove the forward/stbd gunwale underwater and swamped it. My phone would no longer charge because it sensed the charging port was wet.

Lastly, as we were sailing home we hit a soft patch in the breeze. I started the engine. Glanced at the voltmeter 2-5 minutes later and it was pegged out over 16v. I immediately shut it down but it was too late. The voltage regulator had failed in the "wide open" mode. The voltmeter smoked, the remote VHF mic no longer has any audio and the depth finder no longer indicates any depth. Either the brain is fried or the transducer is fried. I have a spare brain for it so we'll see if that brings depth back.

The fuel pump is tied to the circuit with the voltmeter and temp gauge. Since the voltmeter is an "open circuit" none of that shit works. Luckily the breeze filled in and we executed a perfect landing in our slip under sail. There are two "dead zones" in our creek that make this nearly impossible most of the time. Needless to say, I was stoked.

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My annual man-cruise is this Friday. I just ordered all the replacement parts with 2-3 day priority shipping to get the boat humming again.

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we call it the annual fishing mission.  Some "try" to catch fish.  Some just chill and catch up. 

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Bad news indeed, especially that the vibe is back and the previous fix didn't take. Condolences, but judging from your systems knowledge, you've got it sussed. Go the Ajax!

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7 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

The Joy Of Yachting.

 

Good title for a book doncha think?

Actually, yes. A book with that title but with (humorous?) stories of failures and then strategies and equipment to mitigate them.  Not a bad idea!

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13 minutes ago, SemiSalt said:

I'm trying to think what would alert me to a similar crisis on my own boat, and ........maybe nothing?

Exactly, nothing.  That's why my submariner's spidey-sense is always tingling and I'm religiously checking gauges. It's also why I had a horrible time getting any rest when motoring for long stretches during my trip to Maine. 

On most marine engines, there is simply nothing to stop the engine from destroying itself, or destroying anything and everything that it touches. There are some alarms but rarely any safety shutdowns...at least on older boats. Moyer Marine does sell a fairly new alarm kit that tracks temperature, oil pressure, coolant flow and some other things. Meant for use on the Atomic-4.  It might be adaptable to some diesel engines.

Here's the rub-  My VHF command mic DID present a "High Battery Voltage" message on the mic but it had no audible alert.  Also, my chartplotter does have a high voltage and low voltage alarm that you can enable or disable. Stupid me only enabled the "low voltage" alarm to warn me of a draining battery.  I thought the odds of a wide open regulator failure to be so minuscule that I never enabled the high voltage alarm.  If your onboard equipment offers these alerts, use all of them!

In my case, I was sitting behind the wheel and noticed the over-voltage condition pretty quickly and shut the engine down. I'm not sure if I would have responded much faster if the plotter had alarmed on me.

I'm really grateful that my new, pricey Vulcan plotter survived. I can handle the rest of it.

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I am very leery of the automated shut-down alarms. They may shut you down at just the wrong time, see the ship that ended up with the bow stuck in a shopping mall in New Orleans when the low oil pressure alarm shut the engine off.

I currently only have low oil pressure and high coolant temperature alarms. My fuel pressure gauge has a red light that comes on if the fuel pressure goes below 1 PSI.

I already was going to get a water-flow alarm this thread made me double check my regulator. It turns out it has an alarm connection for the following: Low system voltage, high system voltage, high alternator temperature, high battery temperature and no voltage on the stator,
indicating that the alternator has failed. I am hooking that one up before my next trip! Of course this depends on the regulator working well enough to set off the alarm! I once had an alternator failure in an airplane at night that didn't set off the warning light because that function also died :rolleyes:

Another one that you might want: A starter-engaged alert. If for some reason the starter solenoid sticks on, you now have a very high output generator with no regulator, if you thought your alternator gave you too much voltage you haven't seen anything yet :o This is easy to do if you have access to the terminals, power a lamp from the OUTPUT side of the solenoid. It should go out when not actually cranking the starter.

Not engine related, but a bilge alarm is a nice thing to have too.

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Yeah, automatic shutdowns on a boat or airplane engine are probably not a good idea as a rule, but lots and lots of shrieking, audible alarms are great.

It sounds like you have that angle covered.

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Strange.  Typically in a reasonably well balanced electrical system with FLA batteries, the batteries will soak up the extra current.  They will get hot and gas badly but give you time to identify and correct the problem.  Hard to push them past around 16 volts.  LiFePO4 banks are destroyed quickly by overvoltage and have alarms and disconnects to prevent that.

The correct way to wire an overvoltage shutdown is to set it up to shut down the charging system(s), not the engine. 

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3 minutes ago, 2airishuman said:

Strange.  Typically in a reasonably well balanced electrical system with FLA batteries, the batteries will soak up the extra current.  They will get hot and gas badly but give you time to identify and correct the problem.  Hard to push them past around 16 volts.  LiFePO4 banks are destroyed quickly by overvoltage and have alarms and disconnects to prevent that.

The correct way to wire an overvoltage shutdown is to set it up to shut down the charging system(s), not the engine. 

I have Firefly AGM's, not FLA's.  According to the Balmar battery monitor, they do not seem to have been damaged but it does take a cycle or two for the monitor to pick up on a change in health.

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6 minutes ago, 2airishuman said:

Strange.  Typically in a reasonably well balanced electrical system with FLA batteries, the batteries will soak up the extra current.  They will get hot and gas badly but give you time to identify and correct the problem.  Hard to push them past around 16 volts.  LiFePO4 banks are destroyed quickly by overvoltage and have alarms and disconnects to prevent that.

The correct way to wire an overvoltage shutdown is to set it up to shut down the charging system(s), not the engine. 

If my batteries are near full they could easily be pushed that high. I had a weird RFI issue where one of my radios caused the alternator to full-field and I saw 15.5 volts briefly :o I once fixed a generator that would happily hold the start battery at 15.8 volts, the owner was buying a lot of start batteries!

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1 hour ago, Ajax said:

Exactly, nothing.  That's why my submariner's spidey-sense is always tingling and I'm religiously checking gauges. It's also why I had a horrible time getting any rest when motoring for long stretches during my trip to Maine. 

On most marine engines, there is simply nothing to stop the engine from destroying itself, or destroying anything and everything that it touches. There are some alarms but rarely any safety shutdowns...at least on older boats. Moyer Marine does sell a fairly new alarm kit that tracks temperature, oil pressure, coolant flow and some other things. Meant for use on the Atomic-4.  It might be adaptable to some diesel engines.

Here's the rub-  My VHF command mic DID present a "High Battery Voltage" message on the mic but it had no audible alert.  Also, my chartplotter does have a high voltage and low voltage alarm that you can enable or disable. Stupid me only enabled the "low voltage" alarm to warn me of a draining battery.  I thought the odds of a wide open regulator failure to be so minuscule that I never enabled the high voltage alarm.  If your onboard equipment offers these alerts, use all of them!

In my case, I was sitting behind the wheel and noticed the over-voltage condition pretty quickly and shut the engine down. I'm not sure if I would have responded much faster if the plotter had alarmed on me.

I'm really grateful that my new, pricey Vulcan plotter survived. I can handle the rest of it.

Does your Balmar battery monitor have high/low voltage alarms? 

I've though of adding something like a murphy switch gauge for temp and pressure, but inspections and gauge scan patterns are the real fix.  Most of the OE alarms are just "change engine" indicators. 

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46 minutes ago, Elegua said:

Does your Balmar battery monitor have high/low voltage alarms? 

I've though of adding something like a murphy switch gauge for temp and pressure, but inspections and gauge scan patterns are the real fix.  Most of the OE alarms are just "change engine" indicators. 

I used to not like alarm buzzers and lights and love gauges. Now I like to have both for everything, you can't stare at gauges 24/7/365 and get anything else done. Especially on a boat under autopilot, you may not even be near the instrument panel. It is possible to give yourself some warning, I have seen 20 and 30 PSI oil warning senders and a water flow alarm will alert you BEFORE the engine overheats.

This Moyer Marine kit has a low voltage at the coil alert that is unique to gasoline engines, but the rest of it would apply to diesels as well. I can strongly suggest anyone, gas or diesel, get a fuel pressure gauge and/or warning alarm. A lot of things result in no fuel pressure, it is really nice for the engine stopping not to be your first warning!

image.png.b4412a16d7c2cf635b136dbd33da3187.png

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46 minutes ago, Elegua said:

Does your Balmar battery monitor have high/low voltage alarms? 

I've though of adding something like a murphy switch gauge for temp and pressure, but inspections and gauge scan patterns are the real fix.  Most of the OE alarms are just "change engine" indicators. 

The Balmar system has no audible alarms, only visual. This is the one recommended by Collins over at Compass Marine. I don't think the Victron monitor has an audible alarm either. I should have enabled the audible alarm built into the new chartplotter.  I knew that voltage regulators fail in two ways: zero output and full output.

Right now, I'm researching depth finder options:

My current system is a very old Datamarine DART given to me by Innocent Bystander (so now it has an emotional attachment). This is a rectangular, consolidated display of depth, speed, log and temperature, not the common round displays. I have two "brains" for it and multiple displays but only one depth transducer. I called the good folks at DMI Inc. who refurb the old Datamarine stuff. The engineer says they have no more transducers but he thinks the Brain took the hit and not the transducer.  He can fix the Brain, no problem.

As much as I want to upgrade to the B&G package for full integration with my plotter, I cannot drop $1k for the package, another $500 for haul out and whatever materials are needed to remove the old through-hull and install the new one for the new style of transducer. We're talking at least 2 boat bucks to Upgrayyed to B&G when I could repair what I have for maybe a couple hundred.

I even have the old, round Datamarine speed and depth gauges that I could send in for refurbishment and still be $1000 ahead, plus DMI Inc. has plenty of transducers for those.

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Is the regulator an external one with remote sense? This can be the source of over voltage problems.

On my power boat, due to a peculiar interaction of the regulator and the automatic paralleling relay, I got 17V+ for a moment when the voltage sense was tied to the house battery and the alternator was charging the start battery. Lots of alarms and I shut it down.

I like audio alarms as they do not require attention to monitor. But they need to be backed up by easily accessible visual confirmation or you can spend too much time looking for what's wrong. My sailplane is guilty of this, there are several similar sounding possible alarms and you can spend many valuable seconds searching for the cause. The chartplotter alarms are good because they usually (and should) pop up a large dialog box explaining. Only works well if the chartplotter as at the helm. 

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2 hours ago, Ajax said:

but lots and lots of shrieking, audible alarms are great.

Spoken like a true submariner.:P

Whooop! Whooop! Nnnant nnnant nnnant, hooboy, hooboy!

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32 minutes ago, Ajax said:

As much as I want to upgrade to the B&G package for full integration with my plotter, I cannot drop $1k for the package, another $500 for haul out and whatever materials are needed to remove the old through-hull and install the new one for the new style of transducer. We're talking at least 2 boat bucks to Upgrayyed to B&G when I could repair what I have for maybe a couple hundred.

You can temporarily install the new one inside the hull and fuss around putting it through the hull at your next scheduled haulout.

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10 minutes ago, Diarmuid said:
3 hours ago, Ajax said:

but lots and lots of shrieking, audible alarms are great.

Spoken like a true submariner.:P

Whooop! Whooop! Nnnant nnnant nnnant, hooboy, hooboy!

My only knowledge of submarine alarms is from Das Boot, where every alarm basically means "Ze Britishers are about to kill us".

Yes, the reality may be a wee bit different from the fiction

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17 minutes ago, 2airishuman said:

You can temporarily install the new one inside the hull and fuss around putting it through the hull at your next scheduled haulout.

I don't think I can. The hull is cored.

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29 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

Piper got over the scattershot alarms and the newer planes have this:

image.png.a3387926145bce70920651c85ba2e077.png
 

I had some fun when the low fuel alert went off for no reason one day :o

 LOL... @DDW doesn't have to worry about the low fuel alarm in his sailplane, at least.  It's an external regulator but I don't think it's remote sense. The battery monitor showed the batteries at normal voltage. I think it's just failed wide open. The alternator and regulator are about 40 years old.

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40 minutes ago, Ajax said:

I don't think I can. The hull is cored.

Often cored hulls are solid glass along the centerline.

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Just now, slap said:

Often cored hulls are solid glass along the centerline.

Hmmmmmmm.

Well, I could buy the B&G set this spring or summer and try it out against the hull. If it works, great. If not, I'll box it up until I'm ready to haul out for the through-hull job and just keep running the older system.

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1 minute ago, Ajax said:

Hmmmmmmm.

Well, I could buy the B&G set this spring or summer and try it out against the hull. If it works, great. If not, I'll box it up until I'm ready to haul out for the through-hull job and just keep running the older system.

Look to see if the coring ends before the centerilne.  It's usually obvious.

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If you really want internal, could you cut the inside skin, remove the core and fill with epoxy in an area just large enough for the transducer?

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1 minute ago, LakeBoy said:

If you really want internal, could you cut the inside skin, remove the core and fill with epoxy in an area just large enough for the transducer?

There are all kinds of tricks depending on how bold you are.  There are stories of people installing through-hull transducers by having a diver hold a neoprene pipe cap against the hull while the hole is drilled from the inside.

A more practical alternative to consider to get through part of a season would be to install the transducer on a transom bracket.  Not ideal, but $500 is $500.

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Sorry to hear about all of those mishaps -- that's a lot in one weekend.

The piezo transducer is so simple, I doubt that a few seconds at 16V destroyed it.  I'm guessing that you don't need to replace the through hull transducer, only the instrument head.

 

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30 minutes ago, 2airishuman said:

There are all kinds of tricks depending on how bold you are.  There are stories of people installing through-hull transducers by having a diver hold a neoprene pipe cap against the hull while the hole is drilled from the inside.

A more practical alternative to consider to get through part of a season would be to install the transducer on a transom bracket.  Not ideal, but $500 is $500.

I’ve watched with amazement a pro rigger swap out speedos on a race boat, still in the water, and walk away from it with full confidence 5 minutes later...just a waterspout until he jammed the new one in there with some epoxy and he was on to the next job.

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9 hours ago, Ajax said:

 LOL... @DDW doesn't have to worry about the low fuel alarm in his sailplane, at least.  It's an external regulator but I don't think it's remote sense. The battery monitor showed the batteries at normal voltage. I think it's just failed wide open. The alternator and regulator are about 40 years old.

Actually it is the motor control in the auxiliary power unit that causes the most problems (the sailplane is a self-launcher). But there are two other instruments that can buzz a similar confusing sound. The best is the German built variometer, whose Bitching Betty will warn in a loud, Teutonic, slightly sexy female voice "LANDING GEAR... NOT EXTENDED" or some such, which is less easy to mistake. Voice warnings on the sailboat would be ideal. You aren't looking and you aren't guessing. 

If you have an external regulator, even 30 years old, it is likely to have remote sense since this is one of the main reasons to have one. If this line has come adrift from its moorings - and they are usually fused so the fuse could be blown - the properly functioning regulator will drive the voltage through the roof as it cannot see what it is doing but keeps trying anyway. Some people put catch diodes directly on the regulator terminals to ensure that the sense line never goes too high even if disconnected. To drive the voltage high, the regulator drive would have to fail shorted (not open), which isn't the usual failure mode for transistors. 

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Properly designed regulators with remote sense have local sense through a resistor so that the voltage is still regulated if the remote sense connection is compromised.

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Do you have a new regulator yet?

I dug up a circuit for an adjustable high voltage alarm. It looks easy enough to build, I may make it, right now I am counting on the regulator to alarm and that assumes it is working well enough to do so. As I saw with the dead regulator in the airplane, the part of it that set the light off also died :rolleyes:

If I get super-industrious, I could make the alarm cut the alternator field off and then latch until reset.

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9 hours ago, 2airishuman said:

Properly designed regulators with remote sense have local sense through a resistor so that the voltage is still regulated if the remote sense connection is compromised.

Not all of them do that, I have seem some go full bore when the sense wire is off.

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1 hour ago, kent_island_sailor said:

Do you have a new regulator yet?

I dug up a circuit for an adjustable high voltage alarm. It looks easy enough to build, I may make it, right now I am counting on the regulator to alarm and that assumes it is working well enough to do so. As I saw with the dead regulator in the airplane, the part of it that set the light off also died :rolleyes:

If I get super-industrious, I could make the alarm cut the alternator field off and then latch until reset.

It's on the way. Tracker says Thursday.

New voltmeter and fuel pump arrives tomorrow.  I think the fuel pump is fine, I ordered the new one just in case, and as a spare.

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The literature for some of the Sterling regulators indicate that they have a trip function for overcharging.  I am not sure exactly what this means from reading the owner's manual that is online.  I don't know if this just means that a warning light goes on or whether the regulator changes the output of the alternator. 

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20 minutes ago, gkny said:

The literature for some of the Sterling regulators indicate that they have a trip function for overcharging.  I am not sure exactly what this means from reading the owner's manual that is online.  I don't know if this just means that a warning light goes on or whether the regulator changes the output of the alternator. 

It all gets into "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?". Do you trust the regulator to police itself? Do you add layers of cutouts and alarms until your boat has 4 miles of wire and pipes and something is always going wrong with them somewhere? Then you have to figure in all the different failure modes. With an N-field regulator, if the field wire grounds out at any point between the regulator and the alternator that will drive it to full output despite anything the regulator tries to do. At least with P-field that would probably wreck the regulator but leave your output at zero.

 

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21 hours ago, 2airishuman said:

There are all kinds of tricks depending on how bold you are.  There are stories of people installing through-hull transducers by having a diver hold a neoprene pipe cap against the hull while the hole is drilled from the inside.

My diver in La Paz Mexico does this all the time to install/replace thru-hulls.  He replaced a seacock for me with the boat in the water and didn't get a drop of water in the boat -- OK maybe 3 drops.  But he uses a plastic salad bowl and a bit of toilet-ring wax to seal it against the hull.

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@kent_island_sailor The parameters should be to alert the human and fail in the least destructive mode possible= zero. Set boundaries and keep it simple.  The "alert the human" parameter could actually be of secondary importance because the voltmeter is also an indicator.

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1 minute ago, jamhass said:

My diver in La Paz Mexico does this all the time to install/replace thru-hulls.  He replaced a seacock for me with the boat in the water and didn't get a drop of water in the boat -- OK maybe 3 drops.  But he uses a plastic salad bowl and a bit of toilet-ring wax to seal it against the hull.

I'm not sure how that would work in my instance. The through hull is a mushroom that *must* exit from the inside, out. The new one would have to be installed the same way.  It could be done but there would certainly be more than "3 drops of water" in the boat.

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A voltage alarm with a buzzer/light circuit that's paralleled to the control leads of a normally closed solid state relay is very simple to implement. Just run the VR's ignition wire through the SSR's load terminals and the VR will shut down whenever the alarm goes off.

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17 minutes ago, Ajax said:

I'm not sure how that would work in my instance. The through hull is a mushroom that *must* exit from the inside, out. The new one would have to be installed the same way.  It could be done but there would certainly be more than "3 drops of water" in the boat.

Most depthfinders use 200 KHz transducers. My transducer was installed about 4 depthfinders ago and has worked with all the replacements so far. What frequency is yours?

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3 minutes ago, IStream said:

A voltage alarm with a buzzer/light circuit that's paralleled to the control leads of a normally open solid state relay is very simple to implement. Just run the VR's ignition wire through the SSR's load terminals and the VR will shut down whenever the alarm goes off.

A buzzer would do for me.

 

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23 minutes ago, Ajax said:

I'm not sure how that would work in my instance. The through hull is a mushroom that *must* exit from the inside, out. The new one would have to be installed the same way.  It could be done but there would certainly be more than "3 drops of water" in the boat.

Are you a scuba diver?  Not suggesting that you try it yourself but that might give you some ideas on how that sort of thing is done.

In essence you attach (ropes, bungees, fasteners, suction cups) some sort of container (salad bowl, ice cream pail, neoprene pipe cap, garbage bag, fancy custom glove box designed specifically for this kind of work) to the hull, let some air bubble into it while the top is sealed and the bottom isn't, seal it the rest of the way (neoprene, toilet wax, grease, etc), then do the work mostly from the inside.  The old transducer, thru-hull, etc., gets pushed out into the container.  New transducer, thru-hull, etc, gets pulled into the hull hole via a piece of string or wire with the help of long-handled needlenose pliers or similar, or a diver works it into the hole if the container is flexible.  In warm, clear water not too difficult though I would imagine practice would help (I've never done it).

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12 hours ago, 2airishuman said:

Properly designed regulators with remote sense have local sense through a resistor so that the voltage is still regulated if the remote sense connection is compromised.

This would not include the ubiquitous Balmar regulators, which do not have that facility. Nor does the most sophisticated regulator on the planet, the Wakespeed 500. 

But I agree with you that they should have. A diode, forward biased from field source to sense line will keep the voltage within <1V of set point. A 'properly designed' regulator would simply sample the power supply along with the voltage sense, and fault if the difference between them was over limit. This would require an unused input to the processor's A/D and a few lines of code, essentially costless. 

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10 minutes ago, DDW said:

This would not include the ubiquitous Balmar regulators, which do not have that facility. Nor does the most sophisticated regulator on the planet, the Wakespeed 500. 

But I agree with you that they should have. A diode, forward biased from field source to sense line will keep the voltage within <1V of set point. A 'properly designed' regulator would simply sample the power supply along with the voltage sense, and fault if the difference between them was over limit. This would require an unused input to the processor's A/D and a few lines of code, essentially costless. 

Yeah I found that out when my Balmar connector worked loose due to an install cock-up on my part.  Luckily I was watching the gauges and noticed 16V on my bus.  No damage to my electronics though - wonder why yours were so damaged; 16V isn't *that* high and usually it's the low voltage that causes issues (due to high current).  

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Whew, whatever happened it was bad.

The fuel pump IS toast. It clicks exactly once when power is applied. I jumpered the pump directly to 12v. New pump arrives tomorrow.

The new voltmeter is installed so now the gauge cluster works and indicates correctly.

The stereo (as in music) is also fried, not that I care much about that. 

After doing our due diligence, Mr. @Hike, Bitches! is going to lend me a spare alternator from an Atomic-4. It'll be missing the tach sensor wire but I don't care about that either. It's temporary while getting my own alternator sorted.

I removed my alternator. I looked in the back of it and it's packed with old insulation fibers from the doghouse (engine cover) insulation. That can't be good. I'm wondering if the enough of the fibers accumulated to cause a short across the windings or something.  I replaced the doghouse insulation with a foam system last winter, but I guess the old insulation fibers got sucked into the alternator before that.  At the very least, it wasn't cooling properly.

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As it happens, the control panel for my engine does have lights (and I presume noises) for various things, including charge. I have had occasion to hear the water temp (i.e. over-hearing) noise. The oil pressure sounds every time you stop the engine before turning off the key.

I'll have to look at the manual to see if the "charge" is for under charging or over charging, or either.

 

2021-10-05_19-54-09.png

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1 hour ago, SemiSalt said:

As it happens, the control panel for my engine does have lights (and I presume noises) for various things, including charge. I have had occasion to hear the water temp (i.e. over-hearing) noise. The oil pressure sounds every time you stop the engine before turning off the key.

I'll have to look at the manual to see if the "charge" is for under charging or over charging, or either.

 

2021-10-05_19-54-09.png

I have a Yanmar panel and the charge light is just for under. It would come on when my alternator went to half power originally because the overheat sensor kicked in, and later it would just run at half power all the time. I didn't expect it, so the first time it happened I spent a while figuring out what the hell was going on.

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9 hours ago, socalrider said:

 - wonder why yours were so damaged; 16V isn't *that* high and usually it's the low voltage that causes issues (due to high current).  

Low voltage = bad for motors. High voltage = bad for electronics. He has so much fried that it must be the gauge he was looking at was pegged at 16V and actual voltage much higher. As you say, 16V isn't that high, 15V should be perfectly legal charging voltage in a "12V" system on a cold day. 

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8 hours ago, DDW said:

Low voltage = bad for motors. High voltage = bad for electronics. He has so much fried that it must be the gauge he was looking at was pegged at 16V and actual voltage much higher. As you say, 16V isn't that high, 15V should be perfectly legal charging voltage in a "12V" system on a cold day. 

Exactly. The meter was pegged, no idea what the actual voltage was. This all happened within moments.

Ok, check this out:

@Hike, Bitches! is loaning me a Type B Motorola alternator: MR12N451D which seems to be a 35 amp alternator.

My dead unit is a Type B Motorola MR12N600D which seems to be a 55 amp alternator and possibly diesel specific for the alternator sense wire.

They both use the exact same regulator. They both take the exact same rebuild kit that you can buy online. (I'm not rebuilding mine, myself.)  Mr. Bitches and I measured our respective alternator cases and they are of identical dimensions so I think I can use his alternator for my weekend trip, it will simply have less amperage output and no tachometer.

This is the best info I can find but my Google-Fu is weak. Do any of you real geniuses see a problem with my plan?

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1 hour ago, Ajax said:

Exactly. The meter was pegged, no idea what the actual voltage was. This all happened within moments.

Ok, check this out:

@Hike, Bitches! is loaning me a Type B Motorola alternator: MR12N451D which seems to be a 35 amp alternator.

My dead unit is a Type B Motorola MR12N600D which seems to be a 55 amp alternator and possibly diesel specific for the alternator sense wire.

They both use the exact same regulator. They both take the exact same rebuild kit that you can buy online. (I'm not rebuilding mine, myself.)  Mr. Bitches and I measured our respective alternator cases and they are of identical dimensions so I think I can use his alternator for my weekend trip, it will simply have less amperage output and no tachometer.

This is the best info I can find but my Google-Fu is weak. Do any of you real geniuses see a problem with my plan?

A4s came with 35 amp or 55 amp Motorola alternators. They ground through the case and have two connections. They have a stud for the output and a thin wire that is the "on-off" wire. That connects to a source that has voltage when the key is on and not while it is off. Besides for the label saying 35 or 55 amps and different wire gauge inside of it they are identical, I had one of each until I gave the 35 amp unit to someone.

Also note marine 10si alternators of various types fit the same mount ;)

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1 hour ago, kent_island_sailor said:

A4s came with 35 amp or 55 amp Motorola alternators. They ground through the case and have two connections. They have a stud for the output and a thin wire that is the "on-off" wire. That connects to a source that has voltage when the key is on and not while it is off. Besides for the label saying 35 or 55 amps and different wire gauge inside of it they are identical, I had one of each until I gave the 35 amp unit to someone.

Also note marine 10si alternators of various types fit the same mount ;)

Awesome, good to know.  It sounds like I'll be back in business today once I grab those parts from Bitches.

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13 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

You can add a switch to the on-off wire to manually turn the alternator off if you want to.

How does that work without damaging the alternator?

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23 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

It just turns it off. The switch is in the "on-off" thin wire, NOT the output wire!

Ah, so if you accidentally spin the battery disco switch through "OFF" you're toggling the output wire, which is bad but mechanically switching the thin "switching" wire is safe.

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Do you even need the alternator for a short trip?  Do you have a small flex solar panel?  Might be nice to have as backup.  You're not gonna get much juice from an internally regulated 35a alternator anyway unless you're motoring a ton.  

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24 minutes ago, Ajax said:

Ah, so if you accidentally spin the battery disco switch through "OFF" you're toggling the output wire, which is bad but mechanically switching the thin "switching" wire is safe.

Right. When you shut off power to the regulator, you shut off power to the field which kills the alternator output. In this photo you see a field disconnect switch on the left, you can use it to safely turn the alternator off while the engine is running.

CESSNA SPLIT MASTER SWITCH - Pulsanti - Interruttori ...

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Warp Drive is restored. 

Thanks to @Hike, Bitches! Mobile Shipwrights, LLC (a wholly-owned subsidiary of Hike, Bitches Home Renovations, Inc.) I have a working alternator. 

The new fuel pump is installed,  bled and working properly. 

I discovered that the fucking temp gauge is also blown so I'll replace that tomorrow and button everything up. 

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This place is a continual contradiction. Fantastic and horrific all at once.

On one hand there's some really good information and advice, from really experienced people you'd never meet any other way.

On the other you chaps manage to fuck stuff up that I'd never even considered. I could become too paranoid to ever get on a boat again.

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5 hours ago, European Bloke said:

This place is a continual contradiction. Fantastic and horrific all at once.

On one hand there's some really good information and advice, from really experienced people you'd never meet any other way.

On the other you chaps manage to fuck stuff up that I'd never even considered. I could become too paranoid to ever get on a boat again.

I'm not sure how "this chap" managed to fuck stuff up. It wasn't an operational error, a 40 year old voltage regulator failed in the "wide open" mode which resulted in the damage of several electrical and electronic items.

You're saying that this could never happen in Europe?  All recreational yachts in Europe have some sort of protective circuit that would prevent this type of failure? Especially old yachts?

Instead of being paranoid, I'll learn from the failure, work to prevent it in the future and soldier on. The biggest inconvenience of the whole situation is the new global supply chain that forces me to order cheap, CHICOM garbage through the mail instead of simply driving to a shop to buy what I need.

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5 hours ago, European Bloke said:

On the other you chaps manage to fuck stuff up that I'd never even considered. I could become too paranoid to ever get on a boat again.

I think the people here are honest enough to thoroughly report everything they encounter:  good, bad or indifferent.   Ajax has told his story, some people have helped him out and we have all learned.  

BJ is the guy who has described in excruciating detail every minor problem he ever encountered with his boat.  That takes courage.  I respect him for doing that and for carefully explaining how he solved the problem(s).  We all learn from these things.  That's partly why I hang around here.  

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13 hours ago, Ajax said:

Warp Drive is restored. 

Thanks to @Hike, Bitches! Mobile Shipwrights, LLC

I had almost forgotten about that. Good times!

I will call yesterday a "drug deal" since we we met in a 7-11 parking lot, and did not have to mobilize the entire unit.

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1 hour ago, Ajax said:

I'm not sure how "this chap" managed to fuck stuff up. It wasn't an operational error, a 40 year old voltage regulator failed in the "wide open" mode which resulted in the damage of several electrical and electronic items.

You're saying that this could never happen in Europe?  All recreational yachts in Europe have some sort of protective circuit that would prevent this type of failure? Especially old yachts?

Instead of being paranoid, I'll learn from the failure, work to prevent it in the future and soldier on. The biggest inconvenience of the whole situation is the new global supply chain that forces me to order cheap, CHICOM garbage through the mail instead of simply driving to a shop to buy what I need.

6 hours ago, European Bloke said:

This place is a continual contradiction. Fantastic and horrific all at once.

On one hand there's some really good information and advice, from really experienced people you'd never meet any other way.

On the other you chaps manage to fuck stuff up that I'd never even considered. I could become too paranoid to ever get on a boat again.

I think you might be missing some of the humor in that post.

Anyway, if you sail long enough or work on enough boats, you will see all kinds of bizzare malfunctions. Here is one, someone swapped the ground and neutral wires going to an air conditioning pump. I am standing on a floating dock next to the boat when the AC kicks on and a high-voltage stream of salt water shoots out of the boat onto my leg and shocks the shit out of me :o

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Looks like it's going to be a good long weekend for sailing on the Bay. Maybe a bit o rain, but there is no such thing as wet weather,  just wet clothes. 

Where is everyone going? If current wind forecast holds we'll be heading from West River north to Dobbins, maybe.  Then Sunday try to test out the never used ayso that was on my s2 9.2a when I got it and run south to somewhere in the Choptank. 

 

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Not going anywhere, I have to help take care of a family member recovering from surgery :(

This involves my huskies being all in one place and doing their best Hogan's Heroes tunneling into the neighbors yards and trying to get fish out of their fish pond among other things :angry:

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Annual man-cruise. We're invading several places over a 4-day period, taking advantage of Indigenous People's Day.

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1 hour ago, kent_island_sailor said:

Not going anywhere, I have to help take care of a family member recovering from surgery :(

This involves my huskies being all in one place and doing their best Hogan's Heroes tunneling into the neighbors yards and trying to get fish out of their fish pond among other things :angry:

Made me laugh with the Hogan's Heroes reference.  Recently thought about using a reference from the show in another thread but decided it may be too un-PC for the time we are living in.

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Just remembering: That awkward moment when you're jet-lagged, leaving the airport, on your own for the first time in Germany - and suddenly realize that all the German phrases you know came from Hogans Heroes and might be horribly offensive...

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2 hours ago, kent_island_sailor said:

Not going anywhere, I have to help take care of a family member recovering from surgery :(

This involves my huskies being all in one place and doing their best Hogan's Heroes tunneling into the neighbors yards and trying to get fish out of their fish pond among other things :angry:

Bet their riffs on Bohemian Rhapsody at 1 AM are popular, too!:lol:

Even sled dogs lean on autotune these days. Sad!

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Here’s the first piece of electronic gear I’d replace...or rather, install. It’s got a buzzer integrated adjustable audible alarm and  will basically duplicate the info from your unit under the lazerette at the panel. Expensive? Sure. Redundant? Except for the audible alarm, maybe. Basking in the warm led glow of your battery’s condition every time you have reason to be at the panel? Priceless.

pdf

 

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4 hours ago, Ajax said:

I'm not sure how "this chap" managed to fuck stuff up. It wasn't an operational error, a 40 year old voltage regulator failed in the "wide open" mode which resulted in the damage of several electrical and electronic items.

You're saying that this could never happen in Europe?  All recreational yachts in Europe have some sort of protective circuit that would prevent this type of failure? Especially old yachts?

Instead of being paranoid, I'll learn from the failure, work to prevent it in the future and soldier on. The biggest inconvenience of the whole situation is the new global supply chain that forces me to order cheap, CHICOM garbage through the mail instead of simply driving to a shop to buy what I need.

I think you might have taken me a bit literally there.

But no, nothing breaks in Europe. Especially not or our old cars. It's all fine. There's nothing to see here.

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40 minutes ago, European Bloke said:

I think you might have taken me a bit literally there.

But no, nothing breaks in Europe. Especially not or our old cars. It's all fine. There's nothing to see here.

Ah, ok. I appear to have misunderstood. Apologies.

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5 minutes ago, European Bloke said:

No worries. My children tell me regularly and frequently that I'm not funny.

I hope you get everything sorted by the weekend.

It's sorted well enough for the weekend. Still no depth finder but I have charts and I know the area. I'll also be in formation with boats with working depth finders who draw more than I do.

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4 minutes ago, Ajax said:

It's sorted well enough for the weekend. Still no depth finder but I have charts and I know the area. I'll also be in formation with just behind boats with working depth finders who draw more than I do.

FIFY

Have a great time!

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Electronics = boring. Tell us more about the Dyer capsize…were you perhaps rescued by another skilled mariner’s quick thinking and impressive small-boat handling skills?!

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38 minutes ago, Ajax said:

It's sorted well enough for the weekend. Still no depth finder but I have charts and I know the area. I'll also be in formation with boats with working depth finders who draw more than I do.

Should be fine.
D1A00194-29AC-42DE-B524-0B33F415103D.png.d15604dea5bca33c57cade599dee7a3a.png

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1 hour ago, Diarmuid said:

Bet their riffs on Bohemian Rhapsody at 1 AM are popular, too!:lol:

Even sled dogs lean on autotune these days. Sad!

Might be a female thing.  My Border Collie doggirls always used to talk at me like that.  But my Husky boy is pretty silent.  Unless I try to watch TV.  Then he just barks at me until we go play ball instead.

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2 hours ago, toddster said:

Just remembering: That awkward moment when you're jet-lagged, leaving the airport, on your own for the first time in Germany - and suddenly realize that all the German phrases you know came from Hogans Heroes and might be horribly offensive...

Yeah, when very small I tried to write my German grandfather a letter with all German I'd learned from the Battler Britton/Air Ace/War Picture Library comics I had. Fortunately intercepted before delivery. 

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2 hours ago, European Bloke said:

I think you might have taken me a bit literally there.

But no, nothing breaks in Europe. Especially not or our old cars. It's all fine. There's nothing to see here.

Have you renounced Lucas, Prince of Darkness?

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3 hours ago, Ajax said:

It's sorted well enough for the weekend. Still no depth finder but I have charts and I know the area.

What could possibly go wrong?

I remember the happy day in 1975 when a family member got one of those fancy new depth finders.  Ran all day on a pair of 6v lantern batteries.  The display was a neon light that ran on a motorized wheel, you'd get a flash at "0" for the main bang and by the time the signal came back the motor would have moved the wheel to the appropriate depth on the dial and it would flash there.

Probably not quite as good as the steamboat era with two leadsmen on every paddlewheel steamer plying the rivers, one to port, one to starboard, calling out "by the deep, eight" and "a quarter less, five" and so on.

I've always thought there should be an app that calls out traditional depths like that over the speakers, based on NMEA2000 data.