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How can you not be impressed by a double win like this?  Was there another boat that was more impressive across the two races?  What's not to like?

Oh, the PR machine at work... So, Comanche set a record and won on handicap?  Umm...  How do you set a record on the full course if the race is scored on a shortened course?  You can't have it bo

However the 'alternative' finish line in SI 11.3 shortens the course by some 13 miles. The mechanics of shortening the course are laid out in RRS 32. So how can it be "independent of RRS32" which is q

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Three MOD 70s  Nice !!!!!!!!  ;)

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It should be interesting between the two big-uns - Comanche is under new ownership but has kept plenty of the old crew so should be pretty well up to speed (they're thrashing around St Tropez this week rolling pretty much everything including Rambler), Skorpios had a solid opening race and are probably a bit more confident with pushing the boat but they likely still have a long way to go in terms of optimisation of sail cross-overs etc. If there's some breeze we should at least get some good footage..

Also looking forward to see the 2 foiling MODs go up against each other - AFAIK they're running different foil packages (and different budgets).

Plenty of boats in that entry list with the potential to take the overall.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Rambler 88, Comanche and Skorpios for the big boats. Should be interesting. Looks like it's going to be a light weather start or even a light weather race? In lighter conditions that will make Comanche's job harder, I think Skorpios will generate more apparent wind? Anyone got an accurate weather forecast? Predictwind shows light conditions for Malta but that's on land?

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On 10/7/2021 at 1:41 AM, Keith said:

Three MOD 70s  Nice !!!!!!!!  ;)

According to Soldini they made an agreement with Argo to sail the race without lifting foils.  And Loick Peyron on Mana. An interesting race between them for sure!

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25 minutes ago, M26 said:

According to Soldini they made an agreement with Argo to sail the race without lifting foils.  And Loick Peyron on Mana. An interesting race between them for sure!

How does that work? what are they going to do with the T-foil rudders too? I mean it's not as though Maserati hasn't had lifting foils for ages and they raced against Powerplay and Powerplay doesn't have lifting foils. It seems like it would be shedload of work to make the boat go slower just so a boat might be competitive with them. Stand to be corrected, but that seems very odd indeed. 

*EDIT* Just found this link were Brian Thompson talks about Argo's lifting foils, admittedly they aren't as he states as extreme as Maserati's but still lifting foils. 

https://www.sail-world.com/news/238527/Argo-demolishes-Bermuda-Plymouth-record

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1 hour ago, vokstar said:

 It seems like it would be shedload of work to make the boat go slower just so a boat might be competitive with them. Stand to be corrected, but that seems very odd indeed. 

 

The point is to make the boats go faster :) :

@rolexmiddlesearace that will start on Saturday October 23rd.
It's going to be a nice challenge: among our competitors are the two MOD 70s Argo and Mana, and the 80' maxi trimaran Ultim'Emotion 2.
We agreed with Argo’s crew to both sail without the flying appendixes: the chances of having light wind are high, and the flying foils create more friction and slow us down. It’s going to be a nice challenge between MOD 70s and the fact that a sailing star such as Loick Peyron will race aboard Mana makes it even more exciting.

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1 hour ago, M26 said:

The point is to make the boats go faster :) :

@rolexmiddlesearace that will start on Saturday October 23rd.
It's going to be a nice challenge: among our competitors are the two MOD 70s Argo and Mana, and the 80' maxi trimaran Ultim'Emotion 2.
We agreed with Argo’s crew to both sail without the flying appendixes: the chances of having light wind are high, and the flying foils create more friction and slow us down. It’s going to be a nice challenge between MOD 70s and the fact that a sailing star such as Loick Peyron will race aboard Mana makes it even more exciting.

Gotcha, thought it was an agreement to nobble themselves, but it seems like it is a decision based on the wind strength.. It will be interesting to see how it goes then even more. 

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Not a nice move from Argo:

Soldini on IG

We will sail in MOD asset without flying appendixes, with classic foils and rudders. We had a gentlemen's agreement with Argo’s team that we would have raced with the same non-flying configuration, to have an even race between MOD 70s with Mana as well, but we were very surprised because we found out just two days ago that Argo, after seeing the weather forecasts, will race with flying foils. We’re ready for the challenge nonetheless, the boat is in great shape and we will fight tooth and nail!

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18 Knots in the harbour what more do you want. ! Reckon Rambler will be 1st out of the harbour bur after that can't wait to see if Comanche can go neck and neck with Skorpios 

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Huge wrap to the Royal Malta Yacht Club for that coverage. First time ever they had multi camera's out on the course and it was a breath of fresh air in the Covid world.! 

 

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So far the bigger boats going as per their waterline length. The Big Beast going half a knot quicker than Comanche. Mama with Lock Peyron in charge leading the Multi's. Skorpios so far sailing like a well drilled team. Watching her thunder out of the harbor was something special. 

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Pata negra will be one to watch, a family owned boat, typically they struggled but have joined forces with another boat from their local club who is seriously hot and the crew injection seems to have done the trick looking at the fastnet results. 

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Well, I saw Argos tracker this morning at 0530 PST and now nothing ?

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10 minutes ago, jdazey said:

Argo and Maserati are essentially tied. Zoom in.

Tried that, only get one track and Maserati, must be the high quality tracker program. 

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30 minutes ago, SloopJohnB said:

Yellowbrick tracker far better than the Rolex one.

https://yb.tl/rmsr2021

Thank you !!!!!

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Thank god for the Yellow Brick Tracker Argo is there and the big Indian shadowing Skorpios. Comanche may plane better than Skorpios or sooner? We know Comanche is super quick when the breeze is up especially reaching Skorpios will need those C Foils to work some magic to stay in front. 

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41 minutes ago, SloopJohnB said:

0.6 to Skorpios

Donde?  Marinetraffic shows a boat right behind Comanche, so presumably Skorpios.  

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Yes Comanche in the lead Skorpios gybed away to the pressure line expect Comanche to follow soon. It's lighter closer to land. There's less pressure ahead so we'll see if they favors Comanche or Skorpios? 

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Looks like were side by side with the same timestamp a few minutes ago.  Must be fun to be ripping and have someone to rip with.  Like the MOD70's.  

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So far it seems Comanche is still king. In the breeze on her angles she is something special. I think Skorpios will want a little less breeze she is perhaps less sticky than the Indian? Anyway we shall soon see. Great race between these 2 giants but Skorpios would be a little disappointed given she is 25 feet longer. 

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Skorpios have regained the lead by gybing into better pressure and are now comfortably in front for now by around 4.5 miles. Interesting as it seems Skorpios now has the better boat speed whereas for the last few hours Comanche was faster. Long way to go and the gybing angles and pressure may decide who stretches?

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The biggest difference with the trackers is the DTF and Distance per 24 hours etc. Not sure why the Yellow Brick tracker wasn't listed on the Middle Sea Race site as well.? 

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I think Maserati and Argo got a bit stuck for a while, that didn't help Maserati. It could bea tracker thing, but seems like has been 10-ish nm between Skorpios and Comanche for a while. All to play for though 

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2 hours ago, terrafirma said:

As good as the Yellow Brick Tracker is the wind overlay seems way out. Boats sailing for windless holes according to YB but flying. LOL

Skorpios found a hole all right.   C just blew past them, now 7 Nm in front.

Comanche.jpg

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Well done Argo.

I wonder what happened to Maserati,

The two MOD70s were right with each other for most of the race. 

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3 hours ago, Keith said:

Well done Argo.

I wonder what happened to Maserati,

The two MOD70s were right with each other for most of the race. 

If you follow the tracker back you see Maserati slowed right down for a short period after they rounded Lampedusa. The course wobbles around a bit. Perhaps a wind hole? But Argo flew through just a bit to the south. 

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fascinating race. A disadvantage of being ahead with such nasty wind holes. Happened to both Maserati and Skorpios.

Impressive efforts from Caro, Daguet 3, Innos, and Sunshine.

Innos a HH42 out sailing the TP52s!!!!

Sunshine a JPK 1180 showing awesome downwind speed for a IRC shitter. They must be a great design.

 

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this would def be the first time Big C got anywhere near handicap win. horses for courses, and super impressive to see it beat something similar yet 25 ft bigger.

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The big light patch West of Sicily is expected to fill in nicely about 12 hours from now...  Might see a low-rated IRC6 boat rise up the rankings toward the finish.  Jangada as a random example.

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1 hour ago, bigrpowr said:

this would def be the first time Big C got anywhere near handicap win. horses for courses, and super impressive to see it beat something similar yet 25 ft bigger.

Yes great win for the Indian. They took advantage of Skorpios parking up in a windless hole and the rest is history.  And Comanche trolled Skorpios the whole race when they were in 2nd position and they were also faster in certain conditions. Full credit to Mitch Booth who has taken over the boat for the new owner. 

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12 hours ago, Keith said:

Well done Argo.

I wonder what happened to Maserati,

The two MOD70s were right with each other for most of the race. 

Maybe it has to do something with the fact that one is foiling and the other is not... or something else.

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2 hours ago, ALL@SEA said:

Embarrassing for Scorpios to be beaten by a nearly decade old boat that's 25% smaller...

Perhaps.? I saw some of Kyle Langfords footage of Comanche sailing during the race. Wow the thing was surfing and the bow is nearly always out of the water, I think this boat is a one in a million. I think Skorpios maybe able to sail slightly higher sustained speeds but she wouldn't plane like Comanche. Kudos to VPLP for designing a boat that loved the conditions the Middle Sea Race presented this year. They broke the record by 7 hours and won IRC Overall. Off the wind and with her beam and form factor she is so powerful. These were the Indians conditions and she is the King for now. 

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I’m surprised that Ultime Emotion wasn’t more competitive against the MOD70s.  Was she sailed with an amateur crew?  She finished minutes ahead of Comanche and several hours behind the MOD70s.

Yellowbrick has Ultime Emotion and the MOD70s on the same rating.

I thought she was longer and lighter than a MOD.. maybe shes setup for solo sailing with a shorter mast.

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1 hour ago, can-UK said:

I’m surprised that Ultime Emotion wasn’t more competitive against the MOD70s.  Was she sailed with an amateur crew?  She finished minutes ahead of Comanche and several hours behind the MOD70s.

Yellowbrick has Ultime Emotion and the MOD70s on the same rating.

I thought she was longer and lighter than a MOD.. maybe shes setup for solo sailing with a shorter mast.

I think at one point on the way to Lampedusa Comanche was even in front of UE2...   From the beginning they could not keep the pace of the MOD's, they had a very bad angle upwind and even in DW conditions they didn't show much.

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Comanche broke the record by 7 hours and they say the whole course was pretty much downwind for them, that's very rare.! Here's some footage and I think this explains why they could pace Skorpios the whole way around the course. This boat is one special beast. 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CVcs1vDFmTm/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

 

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Just now, terrafirma said:

Comanche broke the record by 7 hours and they say the whole course was pretty much downwind for them, that's very rare.! Here's some footage and I think this explains why they could pace Skorpios the whole way around the course. This boat is one special beast. Tom Slingsby was onboard too.! 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CVcs1vDFmTm/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

 

 

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1 hour ago, terrafirma said:

Comanche broke the record by 7 hours and they say the whole course was pretty much downwind for them, that's very rare.! Here's some footage and I think this explains why they could pace Skorpios the whole way around the course. This boat is one special beast. 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CVcs1vDFmTm/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

 

The angle of the waves in the video looks like they were very close to DDW. Even at these speeds I expected a hotter angle.

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2 hours ago, danstanford said:

The angle of the waves in the video looks like they were very close to DDW. Even at these speeds I expected a hotter angle.

Wind directions can change much quicker than sea states. Typically these boats will sail at a 135°-145°TWA

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I wondered that myself, but the crew would still be learning Scorpios, Comanche had what I would say some of the very top sailors in the world on her. I love Comanche hopefully see her back in Australian waters. 

14 hours ago, ALL@SEA said:

Embarrassing for Scorpios to be beaten by a nearly decade old boat that's 25% smaller...

 

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4 hours ago, Y88 said:

I wondered that myself, but the crew would still be learning Scorpios, Comanche had what I would say some of the very top sailors in the world on her. I love Comanche hopefully see her back in Australian waters. 

 

I was happy to see the big C put the hurt on Skorpios, but I think conditions worked in her favor. I doubt an upwind slog would’ve gone as well. 

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So, Surprise, JPK11.80 is 90% through the course and currently 1st OA.  Oh, that's the same boat that won Fastnet overall just a few months ago.  

Will be a wicked Double if they can pull it off.  

Also, they over 80nm ahead of the second boat in their class.  80nm!!!  They are in class 5 and are over 70nm of the first boat in Class 4 (faster class).  Damn...

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41 minutes ago, Roleur said:

So, Surprise, JPK11.80 is 90% through the course and currently 1st OA.  Oh, that's the same boat that won Fastnet overall just a few months ago.  

Will be a wicked Double if they can pull it off.  

Also, they over 80nm ahead of the second boat in their class.  80nm!!!  They are in class 5 and are over 70nm of the first boat in Class 4 (faster class).  Damn...

No they are only winning their division IRC5. Abby Antelope is winning IRC Overall ATM. Sunrise are coming 2nd ATM

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3 hours ago, terrafirma said:

Abby Antelope is winning IRC Overall ATM. Sunrise are coming 2nd ATM

The Rolex site shows ABBYY Antelope as DNF....  The leaderboard just published on FB showing Sunrise as (potential) overall winner (but still 19nm to go). I think the YB tracker may show Abbyy as winner because they don't distinguish between boats returning to port having stopped and boats still continuing (they do seem to manually correct at some stage)

image.png.ad518dd2dab5344f735318e138248d4e.png

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10 hours ago, terrafirma said:

No they are only winning their division IRC5. Abby Antelope is winning IRC Overall ATM. Sunrise are coming 2nd ATM

Nope.  They did it.  Fastnet + Middle Sea OA in the same year on a small boat.  Put that in your pipe...  

Wonder if they'll be at the Caribbean 600?  

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2 hours ago, Roleur said:

Nope.  They did it.  Fastnet + Middle Sea OA in the same year on a small boat.  Put that in your pipe...  

Wonder if they'll be at the Caribbean 600?  

How would it feel to be sailing another JPK 1180 against them getting beaten that badly? 

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51 minutes ago, danstanford said:

How would it feel to be sailing another JPK 1180 against them getting beaten that badly? 

I think sunrise did the damage in the straights of Messina. In the morning they had gained a few miles which would grown significantly when they got into the breeze and sailed downwind. I know some of the crew pretty well and know they wouldn’t have held anything back and pushed like hell on the northern part of the course 

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