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On 10/11/2021 at 12:21 PM, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

Inspired by @Corryvreckanabobe and his ridiculous and ridiculously interesting choice of JOLIE BRISE, I’ve changed my mind, entirely.  I’ve chosen a completely different life path than the Polynesian-oriented one I chose above. (I can be capricious, just like the gods can be).

I want CURLEW [link].  Just cuz.  And because she doesn’t require crew to sail.

22B5E732-E6F3-49A4-BBA1-492CC59BD9C4.jpeg

Tim's cousin was a good friend, and before he (sadly) passed, he shared some information about Tim and Pauline that makes me esteem them even more. Truly incredible people.

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14 hours ago, TwoLegged said:

Crash, you seem to forget that these modern Breton boats are derived from the flood of innovations on the short-handed sailing scene, and their ergonomics are optimised for that.   Rejecting them 'cos you sail solo a lot is like moving to Florida to escape sunshine. :) 

The primary winches on the coachroof are a concession to crewed sailing, but not a big concession.  If you prefer, you can have the primaries beside the helm, but few boats are built like that because:

  1. those twin-rudder hulls are very well-balanced.  they don't round up in a second like the fossil designs
  2. the telescopic tiller extension lets the helm easily reach the winches without letting go of the tiller
  3. non-overlapping headsails means that there is little grinding to do.  Tacking is a very different experience to the big struggle on a masthead overlapping genoa
  4. when the primary winch does need muscle, the optimal position is to be standing beside it (as on a Pogo), not leaning downhill across a coaming with a heavy tiller in your knees and a view only of the lee rail

So even single-handed, the modern cockpit is way better than the antique.  And with a few extra crew, the modern cockpit is light years ahead.

Give me a deep cockpit and a tiller any day, The day I boarded Taleisin I was shocked by how exposed both their boats cockpits were.

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1 hour ago, Priscilla said:

Give me a deep cockpit and a tiller any day, The day I boarded Taleisin I was shocked by how exposed both their boats cockpits were.

4448ED8C-7632-46E6-8FD4-DF71E9E8E7FB.jpeg.4ab4c97379c0a2f67a6aff14028b123f.jpeg

D69C9B74-659B-4075-86CC-DB1441544808.jpeg

Taleisin's layout is not a bug, it's a feature.  They deliberately built Taleisin with "no cockpit to fill with seas", and with the bonus of more space below.  Plus, one of Lyn's diaries describes how on the day they doubled the Horn, they had a few hours of balmy conditions under drifter when they used that big flat aft deck area as a bonkbed.  Which might make it tripling the horn.  (Sadly, that bit has been edited out of the version of the story at https://www.cruisingworld.com/destinations/cape-horn-starboard/)

For an offshore boat which mostly sails under autopilot, this may not be a bad choice.

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13 hours ago, TwoLegged said:

Kris, the thing about being a God is that you can do whatever you want.  Anywhere on the spectrum from reasonable to perverse, from just to cruel, loving to sadistic. 

Think for example of how Miranda Richardson played Queen Elizabeth I in Blackadder II: a youngster with absolute power who had people's heads chopped off for fun.  Or think of the market-leading God™ who got very fed up with the antic of some people, so he flooded the whole planet and drowned almost everybody.  Extreme sociopathy, but his fans call it purification. :rolleyes:

So I reckon these gods are being quite restrained in just giving you a lifetime boat at age 18.  Managing an heirloom in your age of debauchery is quite mild as God games go.

Haha :D

Believe? I am not sure about that. I am just using them as a sort of a literary device to enable this thought experiment.

But given their own lists of achievements, I reckon that any Gods which do exist should probably be on trial at the International Criminal Court.

 

Ok. I'll put this in my cart for now, but I'm not ready to proceed to the checkout. And the 18 year old is not allowed onboard(or his stinky friends).

It will sit in the shed and be painted and varnished every year with a salt water mist blown on the bottom. 

802951428_Pierabow(1of1).thumb.jpg.69838e6d440b757959b2f37a3c6e85f8.jpg

At 18, he was driving a 2 cycle 3 cylinder Saab station wagon so the man-child obviously didn't give a shit about 'ergonomics'(or speed). 

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3 hours ago, TwoLegged said:

Taleisin's layout is not a bug, it's a feature.  They deliberately built Taleisin with "no cockpit to fill with seas", and with the bonus of more space below.  Plus, one of Lyn's diaries describes how on the day they doubled the Horn, they had a few hours of balmy conditions under drifter when they used that big flat aft deck area as a bonkbed.  Which might make it tripling the horn.  (Sadly, that bit has been edited out of the version of the story at https://www.cruisingworld.com/destinations/cape-horn-starboard/)

For an offshore boat which mostly sails under autopilot, this may not be a bad choice.

I disagree. No modern boat should suffer from "the cockpit is full", we have perfected the art of having them drain out aft. Even my old-school deep-ish cockpit doesn't hold that much water, it does have drains, and in any weather rough enough to fill it the water also mostly dumps back out. Besides for that, there is nothing nicer than being able to be secure in the cockpit head under the dodger taking a nap until the helmsman needs you and nothing worse IMHO to be totally exposed and uncomfortable. Then there is all the time NOT in a storm. I bet the average sailboat spends literally 99% of its time NOT in storms offshore.

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37 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

I disagree. No modern boat should suffer from "the cockpit is full", we have perfected the art of having them drain out aft. Even my old-school deep-ish cockpit doesn't hold that much water, it does have drains, and in any weather rough enough to fill it the water also mostly dumps back out. Besides for that, there is nothing nicer than being able to be secure in the cockpit head under the dodger taking a nap until the helmsman needs you and nothing worse IMHO to be totally exposed and uncomfortable. Then there is all the time NOT in a storm. I bet the average sailboat spends literally 99% of its time NOT in storms offshore.

I dunno if 2L was endorsing that principle of "no cockpit," just explaining it. I've had dozens of people tell me over the years that our open-transom boat was dangerous, breaking waves aft, etc etc. Most do not understand reserve bouyancy nor pitch inertia, although I believe Larry Pardey probably did but was a firm believer in old-fashioned=better... just because he said so.

The extra room under the deck where the cockpit would be is nice, but that's a seperate issue IMHO.

I believe the ergonomics of sailing a boat are very important, to cruisers as much as racers. The excuse that cruisers almost never touch halyards or sheets as an excuse to make the boat a PITA to handle just results in a boat that will not be sailed. A good cockpit is a huge part of this.

FB- Doug

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On 10/11/2021 at 6:06 PM, slap said:

I'd take a clone of Restive.    Wouldn't want to take the original one from CL.

What a lovely compliment. I told Restive and I believe she blushed. 

 

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56 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

Besides for that, there is nothing nicer than being able to be secure in the cockpit head under the dodger taking a nap until the helmsman needs you and nothing worse IMHO to be totally exposed and uncomfortable.

This. Having a cockpit benches long enough to lie flat and sleep with your head under the cover of the dodger is a must for me and it's a true pleasure in good weather.  

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Just now, Elegua said:

This. Having a cockpit benches long enough to lie flat and sleep with your head under the cover of the dodger is a must for me and it's a true pleasure in good weather.  

Even in bad weather, my lower foul-weather gear clad body might be getting a lot of waves dumped on it, but as long as my head is under the dodger I can rest until needed. Also I can leave the companionway open in some pretty nasty stuff as long waves are coming from forward.

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5 hours ago, TwoLegged said:

Taleisin's layout is not a bug, it's a feature.  They deliberately built Taleisin with "no cockpit to fill with seas", and with the bonus of more space below.  Plus, one of Lyn's diaries describes how on the day they doubled the Horn, they had a few hours of balmy conditions under drifter when they used that big flat aft deck area as a bonkbed.  Which might make it tripling the horn.  (Sadly, that bit has been edited out of the version of the story at https://www.cruisingworld.com/destinations/cape-horn-starboard/)

For an offshore boat which mostly sails under autopilot, this may not be a bad choice.

Pretty sure this was the main motivation- room below.  Bathtub (!), sail storage (Taliesin has all hank-in sails), provisions, etc. etc.  Taliesin is only 29’6”, so for long-term cruising to need to maximize storage space.
 

When I saw Taliesin up close once, I too was struck by how shallow the cockpit is.  But it obviously was no problem for them.  All of this hair-splitting about micro-design features is just one big First World Problem :-)

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36 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

I dunno if 2L was endorsing that principle of "no cockpit," just explaining it. I've had dozens of people tell me over the years that our open-transom boat was dangerous, breaking waves aft, etc etc. Most do not understand reserve bouyancy nor pitch inertia, although I believe Larry Pardey probably did but was a firm believer in old-fashioned=better... just because he said so.

Just so, @Steam Flyer.  I was explaining Larry's idea, not — as @kent_island_sailor thought — justifying it.

I agree that the modern solution of open transoms solves the drainage issue that was Larry's motive, tho I dunno whether it works as well on heavy, slow boats.   Larry built a setup that worked for him, but it wouldn't be my first choice; I am much more taken with the way the IMOCA60s have moved towards lots of crew shelter.

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8 hours ago, TwoLegged said:

Taleisin's layout is not a bug, it's a feature.  They deliberately built Taleisin with "no cockpit to fill with seas", and with the bonus of more space below.  Plus, one of Lyn's diaries describes how on the day they doubled the Horn, they had a few hours of balmy conditions under drifter when they used that big flat aft deck area as a bonkbed.  Which might make it tripling the horn.  (Sadly, that bit has been edited out of the version of the story at https://www.cruisingworld.com/destinations/cape-horn-starboard/)

For an offshore boat which mostly sails under autopilot, this may not be a bad choice.

That "bonus of more space below." was filled with a teak bathtub for Lin IIRC.

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3 hours ago, Elegua said:

This. Having a cockpit benches long enough to lie flat and sleep with your head under the cover of the dodger is a must for me and it's a true pleasure in good weather.  

In the past my wife and I have done frequent overnights double handed. She's not a great sailor, despite 2 Bermuda returns and years of being aboard.

It helps me to sleep if I can be on deck. Not awake, just there in case there is an issue that needs my attention, sail trim, crossing situation, etc.  Long benches with cockpit cushions make all of the difference. 

I find it very difficult to rest if I'm uncertain the crew will wake me when needed. 

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26 minutes ago, Cruisin Loser said:

In the past my wife and I have done frequent overnights double handed. She's not a great sailor, despite 2 Bermuda returns and years of being aboard.

It helps me to sleep if I can be on deck. Not awake, just there in case there is an issue that needs my attention, sail trim, crossing situation, etc.  Long benches with cockpit cushions make all of the difference. 

I find it very difficult to rest if I'm uncertain the crew will wake me when needed. 

Exactly the same need. It's better for everyone, including my sleep, if I can be on-call in the cockpit.  Between the high coamings, the dodger and the weathercloths which overlap the dodger a bit, the cockpit is a surprisingly dry and comfy place, even bashing upwind.  The builder did something clever by using raised teak slats that keep you out of any pooled water and adding a little camber to the seat so you feel secure. 

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1 hour ago, Israel Hands said:

...which she never used, right?

Well, surely you know the age-old saying, “Happy wife, happy life”, along with, “It’s the thought that counts.”

Are we really discussing Lin Pardey’s bathing habits?  Seriously?  

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4 minutes ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

How/why is that?

She enjoys being on the boat, and is fine crew, but like many is not really skipper material. I said she's not a great sailor. She's certainly competent at many aspects. 

I was raised on the water and had sailboats at a very early age. I'm also an engineer. She is from New Mexico, and had never seen an actual sailboat until we started dating. She was a ballet dancer when we met.

I think I'm ahead of many, whose wives don't enjoy or go on the boat. She loves it and spends a lot of time aboard.

I should put her in lessons on small boats, but we're too busy sailing. We've been trying to schedule her on one of those women's sailing programs, but something always comes up.

These days she's obsessed with this bright-eyed little pumpkin:

Alex2.thumb.jpg.d101094d6c916a2fe7c3637b4ad37302.jpg

alex4.thumb.jpg.4d2f9a321ae868e613e47ec6dedf4416.jpg

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1 hour ago, Cruisin Loser said:

I find it very difficult to rest if I'm uncertain the crew will wake me when needed. 

In the Navy, the captain had night orders, which the OOD had to read and initial, before relieving the watch. It basically set out what you should call (wake) him about. On most ships, the captain had a Sea Cabin, which was very small, just a few steps from the bridge. 

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18 minutes ago, Cruisin Loser said:

She enjoys being on the boat, and is fine crew, but like many is not really skipper material. I said she's not a great sailor. She's certainly competent at many aspects. 

I was raised on the water and had sailboats at a very early age. I'm also an engineer. She is from New Mexico, and had never seen an actual sailboat until we started dating. She was a ballet dancer when we met.

I think I'm ahead of many, whose wives don't enjoy or go on the boat. She loves it and spends a lot of time aboard.

I should put her in lessons on small boats, but we're too busy sailing. We've been trying to schedule her on one of those women's sailing programs, but something always comes up.

These days she's obsessed with this bright-eyed little pumpkin:

Alex2.thumb.jpg.d101094d6c916a2fe7c3637b4ad37302.jpg

alex4.thumb.jpg.4d2f9a321ae868e613e47ec6dedf4416.jpg

For sure.  Every boat is different.  

Our S.O.P. is the person on watch/on deck is basically in charge, barring serious situations, etc.  Redudancy in case shit goes sideways.  (“Training” the 17 year old, already a competent dinghy saiking coach, on that now, bit by bit - seamanship, basically.)

Personally, I wouldn’t do a woman’s sailing program per se, just a good coastal/offshore sailing program. 

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WHOM THE GODS WOULD HUMBLE, THEY FIRST GIVE A "FREE" BOAT!!!!! DONT DO IT- IT'S A TRAP!!!!!!

That said, and as the possessor of a pretty good jacknife of a boat right now (J/35) as well as a dodgy back and a gut, I'd like something bigger and cruisier, and more aimed at blue water.  But still fast enough to do local distance races, some ocean races & transits, and to cruise the Bay with aplomb.  I'd like a Hylas 46, a properly kitted out one not the lighter rigged charter version.  Since the boat is paid for I'll have money to take the time off...   

Poseidon might also inflict a Pogo 12.50 on me and I could work it out. Minimalist interior but really not bad at all.  Would have to ask for the floor option to cover up the structural grid and would need a resulting 6" taller cabin interior.  And a nicely kept J/40 might scratch all the itches pretty well.    

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7 minutes ago, Lex Teredo said:

Poseidon might also inflict a Pogo 12.50 on me and I could work it out. Minimalist interior but really not bad at all.  Would have to ask for the floor option to cover up the structural grid and would need a resulting 6" taller cabin interior. 

All the Pogos are tempting to me, but for me the 12.50 has one big vice.  It has a central single tiller which extends way into the cockpit, leaving little room for crew.  Later Pogo designs (30, 36, 50, 44) have twin tillers well aft, which provides a lot more space ... but on the 12.50, the only alternative seems to be twin wheels, which seems like it would be less fun.  @shaggybaxter's Pogo 12.50 had twin wheels 'cos he needed room for guests in the cockpit, and he seems to have had a pile of fun ... but I'd still prefer tillers.

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3 hours ago, Israel Hands said:

...which she never used, right?

I don't think so. I sat onboard for about an hour, 20 years ago in Camden Harbor. I remember it was a nice day when I boarded with my dinghy (we were shipping some lobsters for them). But I was asked below immediately skipping the cockpit. Maybe that's not their choosen 'set' in a harbor?

Below I could see the bathtub was used to hold gear. No pressure water, no way to easily heat it, it looked pretty dusty. They had access to the YC showers and bath. I imagine they get that whenever in a populated harbor. 

Beautiful boat though. They're (were) petit people, I remember. Very nice people to talk with! Larry didn't like anything that had moving parts I recall. He also showed the world, he didn't need 'stuff'. He was confounded by my life, running a fish market and building a place to live overhead. I had 2 kids, a dog, all this stuff going on. He would shake his head in a 'why' sort of way. 

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1 hour ago, Bull City said:

In the Navy, the captain had night orders, which the OOD had to read and initial, before relieving the watch. It basically set out what you should call (wake) him about. On most ships, the captain had a Sea Cabin, which was very small, just a few steps from the bridge. 

If I asked Mrs. Loser to read and initial night orders, I had better be a very strong cold water swimmer. This is not a woman with whom you trifle flippantly. As she is wont to remind me, the galley knives are beyond razor sharp, and it's her galley.  

Frankly, she might prefer that. I'm sure that, with me out of the way, a picture of Restive with a caption of "Blonde with Free Boat" posted at some yacht clubs and boatyards would garner a few offers.

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Seems as if "the captain" sleeping in the cockpit is its own solution to "night orders."  

Anything that tumbles him into the footwell, probably needs attention.  

Unless he's a really heavy sleeper.  

 

Of course, on my boat, that would probably break the tiller. :unsure:

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8 minutes ago, Cruisin Loser said:

If I asked Mrs. Loser to read and initial night orders, I had better be a very strong cold water swimmer. This is not a woman with whom you trifle flippantly. As she is wont to remind me, the galley knives are beyond razor sharp, and it's her galley.  

Frankly, she might prefer that. I'm sure that, with me out of the way, a picture of Restive with a caption of "Blonde with Free Boat" posted at some yacht clubs and boatyards would garner a few offers.

I wouldn't dream of suggesting a Night Orders Notebook on a husband-wife boat. I'm not crazy. 

Although, you could do the night orders in needlepoint... :P

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17 hours ago, Elegua said:

Exactly the same need. It's better for everyone, including my sleep, if I can be on-call in the cockpit.  Between the high coamings, the dodger and the weathercloths which overlap the dodger a bit, the cockpit is a surprisingly dry and comfy place, even bashing upwind.  The builder did something clever by using raised teak slats that keep you out of any pooled water and adding a little camber to the seat so you feel secure. 

Our bridgedeck is the favorite spot for the night watch. Over 6' long, 2' wide, head on the high side, it can be raining hard with a spray going to windward and you stay dry and warm. Sheet winches close by, AP control in the companionway, and of course the mainsheet control on house above (traveler track is on aft cockpit bench).

 

I spent many nights on the Gulf of Maine right here (as did others). The challenge here is staying awake. 

 

About 10 years ago I took on the task of moving the mainsheet control aft, around the traveler.(on the aft cockpit bench). I saw this arrangement on some other boats of this vintage, and at the time, it seemed like a good idea. Often I was finding myself on the aft end of the cockpit, the mainsheet control 8' forward, and a crowd between me and it. I made mock ups to determine a winch location, etc. 

I was about to pull the trigger when I built the new cockpit. But suddenly there didn't seem to be a problem. I think it was family dynamics at the time, kids becoming adults, more friends, too many dogs, etc. 

Anyway, there it sits and I'm glad I left it there. I don't know what the thinking on the designers part was at the time(1959). It was pretty typical, this was a stock design at the time. 

But with many of those design decisions I've learned to go slow when I think I have a better idea. Sometimes a custom feature is better, but the well of experience the designers of any era have(had) to draw from is vast and quite often on the mark, all around. 

Bridgedeck.thumb.jpg.7c59322ad76b0f85b89a1ae26be104d0.jpg

 

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14 hours ago, Bull City said:
14 hours ago, Cruisin Loser said:

If I asked Mrs. Loser to read and initial night orders, I had better be a very strong cold water swimmer. This is not a woman with whom you trifle flippantly. As she is wont to remind me, the galley knives are beyond razor sharp, and it's her galley.  

Frankly, she might prefer that. I'm sure that, with me out of the way, a picture of Restive with a caption of "Blonde with Free Boat" posted at some yacht clubs and boatyards would garner a few offers.

I wouldn't dream of suggesting a Night Orders Notebook on a husband-wife boat. I'm not crazy. 

Although, you could do the night orders in needlepoint... 

When Mrs Steam and I were cruising, we did not do many night passages but we did a few. She would write up index cards of reminders, how to handle this-or-that, and kept the current one paper-clipped to either the chart or the logbook. Closest thing to night orders... I re-wrote it from time to time in nice block print so it would be easy to read quickly, not sure it was ever really used in the heat of battle.

When she had the watch, I woke up several times without her knowing. Usually the off-watch had custody of the dog, and not making him nervous was our first priority. She was always doing just fine.

FB- Doug

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On 10/14/2021 at 7:32 AM, Kris Cringle said:

 

Ok. I'll put this in my cart for now, but I'm not ready to proceed to the checkout. And the 18 year old is not allowed onboard(or his stinky friends).

It will sit in the shed and be painted and varnished every year with a salt water mist blown on the bottom. 

802951428_Pierabow(1of1).thumb.jpg.69838e6d440b757959b2f37a3c6e85f8.jpg

At 18, he was driving a 2 cycle 3 cylinder Saab station wagon so the man-child obviously didn't give a shit about 'ergonomics'(or speed). 

Looks like Abeking-Rasmussen  built, Phil Rhodes design. Very similar to a Rhodes 27, but looks slightly larger. (I sailed a lot of offshore miles in one of those a long time ago.)

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3 minutes ago, accnick said:

Looks like Abeking-Rasmussen  built, Phil Rhodes design. Very similar to a Rhodes 27, but looks slightly larger. (I sailed a lot of offshore miles in one of those a long time ago.)

It's PIERA. One of my favorites in the harbor. But I'm still shopping. 

1051701165_PieraRhodes.thumb.jpg.315592bbd4b02cf7d55dfe9e3403dfc5.jpg

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28 minutes ago, Kris Cringle said:

Our bridgedeck is the favorite spot for the night watch. Over 6' long, 2' wide, head on the high side, it can be raining hard with a spray going to windward and you stay dry and warm. Sheet winches close by, AP control in the companionway, and of course the mainsheet control on house above (traveler track is on aft cockpit bench).

 

I spent many nights on the Gulf of Maine right here (as did others). The challenge here is staying awake. 

 

About 10 years ago I took on the task of moving the mainsheet control aft, around the traveler.(on the aft cockpit bench). I saw this arrangement on some other boats of this vintage, and at the time, it seemed like a good idea. Often I was finding myself on the aft end of the cockpit, the mainsheet control 8' forward, and a crowd between me and it. I made mock ups to determine a winch location, etc. 

I was about to pull the trigger when I built the new cockpit. But suddenly there didn't seem to be a problem. I think it was family dynamics at the time, kids becoming adults, more friends, too many dogs, etc. 

Anyway, there it sits and I'm glad I left it there. I don't know what the thinking on the designers part was at the time(1959). It was pretty typical, this was a stock design at the time. 

But with many of those design decisions I've learned to go slow when I think I have a better idea. Sometimes a custom feature is better, but the well of experience the designers of any era have(had) to draw from is vast and quite often on the mark, all around. 

Bridgedeck.thumb.jpg.7c59322ad76b0f85b89a1ae26be104d0.jpg

 

While re-building my boat (I think I've done enough work to call it that, by now) I was warned by one of the more experienced managers at LM about the dangers of "over-optimization".  He was pointing at two things: 1) every time you change something you will often cause a cascade of other changes, some of which you realized, and some of which will be a surprise. 2) The more you make something efficient for one use case, you sometimes are becoming less efficient at some other use case. 

Night Orders: We have them. I'm not going to get up and do their log entries or trim the sail, but they like to have me there for bigger things. Actually it seems mostly just to have me there. 

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17 hours ago, Cruisin Loser said:

She enjoys being on the boat, and is fine crew, but like many is not really skipper material. I said she's not a great sailor. She's certainly competent at many aspects. 

I was raised on the water and had sailboats at a very early age. I'm also an engineer. She is from New Mexico, and had never seen an actual sailboat until we started dating. She was a ballet dancer when we met.

I think I'm ahead of many, whose wives don't enjoy or go on the boat. She loves it and spends a lot of time aboard.

I should put her in lessons on small boats, but we're too busy sailing. We've been trying to schedule her on one of those women's sailing programs, but something always comes up.

These days she's obsessed with this bright-eyed little pumpkin:

Alex2.thumb.jpg.d101094d6c916a2fe7c3637b4ad37302.jpg

alex4.thumb.jpg.4d2f9a321ae868e613e47ec6dedf4416.jpg

Very nice :D

My wife too is not all that interested in being an advanced sailor. She likes sailing for sure, but is happy enough at her level and mainly wants to enjoy being out there. She is the same flying. I think she could be a good pilot, but she has no interest at all in flying an airplane if I am not next to her. I know that no one that posts here is likely to be in this category, but there are plenty of people happy enough to be part of the operation without the drive to move up to 4 stripes.

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17 hours ago, TwoLegged said:

All the Pogos are tempting to me, but for me the 12.50 has one big vice.  It has a central single tiller which extends way into the cockpit, leaving little room for crew.  Later Pogo designs (30, 36, 50, 44) have twin tillers well aft, which provides a lot more space ... but on the 12.50, the only alternative seems to be twin wheels, which seems like it would be less fun.  @shaggybaxter's Pogo 12.50 had twin wheels 'cos he needed room for guests in the cockpit, and he seems to have had a pile of fun ... but I'd still prefer tillers.

I'd go for the twin wheels.  Lower back is dodgy and a recent 12 hour sailing day into a violent storm followed by an eight hour motoring day reminded me why it's not good for the lumbar discs to sit for a long period of time with a 45' twist in the torso. 

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1 hour ago, Kris Cringle said:

It's PIERA. One of my favorites in the harbor. But I'm still shopping. 

1051701165_PieraRhodes.thumb.jpg.315592bbd4b02cf7d55dfe9e3403dfc5.jpg

See if you can get the gods to provide.one of those Varnish Pixies.

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2 hours ago, kent_island_sailor said:

Very nice :D

 there are plenty of people happy enough to be part of the operation without the drive to move up to 4 stripes.

That's exactly what I was trying to say, but you said it perfectly.

 

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16 hours ago, r.finn said:

It's got to be this for me:

0ad56a06603988073ba69261072cd710.jpg

i got a very long ride on that boat when I was a kid. It kind of warped my brain for what a sailboat could be. I'd take Moxie over Gulfstreamer or Rogue wave just for the "row away" factor. Most beautiful boat/creature ever built by man and the fastest way to sail solo across the Atlantic in 1980.

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52 minutes ago, Russell Brown said:

i got a very long ride on that boat when I was a kid. It kind of warped my brain for what a sailboat could be. I'd take Moxie over Gulfstreamer or Rogue wave just for the "row away" factor. Most beautiful boat/creature ever built by man and the fastest way to sail solo across the Atlantic in 1980.

Russell, I can understand how you couldn't downgrade to leadmines after that!  Whoever gave you that youthful ride did you a big favour.

I agree about Moxie; a real stunner.  Sadly, all those glorious tris are too big and too fast for my noodling around the south and west coasts of Ireland, even if the gods are paying the bills.

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4 hours ago, Kris Cringle said:

It's PIERA. One of my favorites in the harbor. But I'm still shopping. 

1051701165_PieraRhodes.thumb.jpg.315592bbd4b02cf7d55dfe9e3403dfc5.jpg

 

Piera is similar to a scaled-up Rhodes 27, at about 45' overall and just over 11' beam. She is pretty typical of Rhodes early post-war designs

Abeking and Rasmussen built a lot of Rhodes designs in the 1950's as well as the post-war Concordia yawls, of course. Piera was built by A&R during the same period.

I was told many years ago by someone who knew these things that A&R had to import bronze screws from the US during this period, as Germany's stock of brass/bronze had been used up for ammunition during WW2, as well as much of the country's industrial capacity having been destroyed.

As a youngster, I lived in Germany in the early post-war period (1953-1956), where my father was a  US Air Force officer and part of the allied occupation forces.

There was still rubble in the streets of Germany's great industrial cities at that time, and their post-war miracle recovery was in its infancy.

Yards like A&R were desperate to get back on their feet, and a lot of US orders were pouring in. Their construction quality was superb. Still is.

 

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On 10/14/2021 at 6:14 PM, Priscilla said:

Give me a deep cockpit and a tiller any day, The day I boarded Taleisin I was shocked by how exposed both their boats cockpits were.

4448ED8C-7632-46E6-8FD4-DF71E9E8E7FB.jpeg.4ab4c97379c0a2f67a6aff14028b123f.jpeg

D69C9B74-659B-4075-86CC-DB1441544808.jpeg

On the topic of shallow cockpits (and not really thread drift, as folkboats were mentioned on the OP)... Leo Sampson, who's rebuilding Tally Ho, crossed the Atlantic on one he'd restored - shallow hardly begins to describe how he chose to model the cockpit cockpit. 

Lorema_Cory.jpg

https://sampsonboat.co.uk/category/cruising-lorema/

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On 10/15/2021 at 6:24 PM, TwoLegged said:

Russell, I can understand how you couldn't downgrade to leadmines after that!  Whoever gave you that youthful ride did you a big favour.

I agree about Moxie; a real stunner.  Sadly, all those glorious tris are too big and too fast for my noodling around the south and west coasts of Ireland, even if the gods are paying the bills.

May be the gods can convince Charlie Capelle to build for you a new "A' Capella", I think that the yard is still in business. There are four left out of five, the missing one sadly is the one that Birch sailed to victory during the 1978 Route du Rhum. They are just 35 feet long and very light and easy to handle.

aaaaaaa.webp

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11 hours ago, ALL@SEA said:

On the topic of shallow cockpits (and not really thread drift, as folkboats were mentioned on the OP)... Leo Sampson, who's rebuilding Tally Ho, crossed the Atlantic on one he'd restored - shallow hardly begins to describe how he chose to model the cockpit cockpit. 

Leo's last name is Goolden. Sampson is his middle name, according to Wikipedia.

Pedantry over.

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I seem to recall reading that Robin Lee Graham got so tired of getting "pooped" that he decked-over the cockpit of Dove before departing South Africa.  Not sure exactly what that looked like.  I don't recall there being much at all in the book about the Atlantic crossing.  

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42 minutes ago, Bull City said:

shallow hardly begins to describe how he chose to model the cockpit cockpit. 

Looking at his companion (not offset), I think I know what he had in mind.

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11 hours ago, Panoramix said:

May be the gods can convince Charlie Capelle to build for you a new "A' Capella", I think that the yard is still in business. There are four left out of five, the missing one sadly is the one that Birch sailed to victory during the 1978 Route du Rhum. They are just 35 feet long and very light and easy to handle.

aaaaaaa.webp

I got a lot of experience with a sister ship named Humdinger, owned by my dear departed friend Donald Young. I rebuilt the boat after it had sat in a Wisconsin cornfield for a long time. I built a tall rig for the boat (plywood wing mast that's still going) and raced the boat quite a bit with Donald. When he sold it, I got to sail it to San Francisco with my choice of crew. Suffice it to be said, we had a good time. Surfed our brains out and then decided we loved the boat too much to deliver it to the new owner, until we had a full day of bombing around the bay, keeping the "mood" all day long. That was a long time ago, but the boat is still going strong and has been to Hawaii and back at least once. It did the Route De Rhum too. All my photos of her are prints, otherwise I'd post them.

I got to build Donald a new boat, the little Humdinger, seen on the forums sometimes. 

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13 hours ago, Russell Brown said:

I got a lot of experience with a sister ship named Humdinger, owned by my dear departed friend Donald Young. I rebuilt the boat after it had sat in a Wisconsin cornfield for a long time. I built a tall rig for the boat (plywood wing mast that's still going) and raced the boat quite a bit with Donald. When he sold it, I got to sail it to San Francisco with my choice of crew. Suffice it to be said, we had a good time. Surfed our brains out and then decided we loved the boat too much to deliver it to the new owner, until we had a full day of bombing around the bay, keeping the "mood" all day long. That was a long time ago, but the boat is still going strong and has been to Hawaii and back at least once. It did the Route De Rhum too. All my photos of her are prints, otherwise I'd post them.

I got to build Donald a new boat, the little Humdinger, seen on the forums sometimes. 

You certainly had an interesting youth Russell. Humdinger is the last A' Capella in the US, all the others ended up in France. I suspect that this is the best recognition we could give as a nation to Walter Greene!

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18 hours ago, toddster said:

I seem to recall reading that Robin Lee Graham got so tired of getting "pooped" that he decked-over the cockpit of Dove before departing South Africa.  Not sure exactly what that looked like.  I don't recall there being much at all in the book about the Atlantic crossing.  

Bill Churchhouse in his Westerly 22 does the same for the Jester:

(2:30)

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