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Fitting T terminal for Solent stay


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I'm reading around on fitting a Solent stay and the various stuff I've read often blithely mention fitting a T terminal fitting (attached example from Sail magazine, by Joe Cooper).  They never mention whether reinforcement is needed inside the mast or if the mast is normally thick enough.  In my case its an old school Proctor beastie.

Any experiences of fitting one would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Screenshot_20211009-200421.png

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Typically nothing else needed, but without knowing what mast section you have it's pretty hard to make the call. 

Cutting in an accurate oval hole to fit the backing plate is important, no square corners.

Is your masthead removable for access?

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^ As the man says, nothing hard about it. It's important that you get the oval hole accurate, as most of the strength of the fitting depends on a solid resting of the plate against the bottom of the hole. 

You can even do it with the rig in the boat, but you need to choose a very quiet morning, and make sure you've brought everything up, and it's all tied on.  Use the backing plate as a template for the holes.  Do the big one first.

For God's sake tie a length of very light line with a long bowline (blind cord is ideal) to the fitting so it doesn't drop on the deck and bounce over the side, or worse, fall down the inside of the mast.

When the hole is filed to the correct shape and the other locating holes drilled, do a trial fitting by pushing it into the mast, and wiggling it around until it seats properly.  You will almost certainly not have the big hole right, so pull it out and use that little rat-tail file to fix the error.

When it's OK, shove it in again, and use your big telescopic rivet gun to put one Monel rivet into the fitting, preferably the topmost one. Then you can untie your bowline and pull the line out.  When you are pushing in the rivets it helps to have a line on your bosun's chair round the mast so you have something to strain against.

Then bang in the other rivets, and attach the stay, if you remembered to bring it up with you.  

Oh, and for heck's sake, remember to tie a line to the power drill.  They make nasty holes in the deck when dropped while running.  Not to mention the electrical flash bang when they bounce over the side.  Don't ask how I know that.

My $0.02.

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6 hours ago, P_Wop said:

^ As the man says, nothing hard about it. It's important that you get the oval hole accurate, as most of the strength of the fitting depends on a solid resting of the plate against the bottom of the hole. 

You can even do it with the rig in the boat, but you need to choose a very quiet morning, and make sure you've brought everything up, and it's all tied on.  Use the backing plate as a template for the holes.  Do the big one first.

For God's sake tie a length of very light line with a long bowline (blind cord is ideal) to the fitting so it doesn't drop on the deck and bounce over the side, or worse, fall down the inside of the mast.

When the hole is filed to the correct shape and the other locating holes drilled, do a trial fitting by pushing it into the mast, and wiggling it around until it seats properly.  You will almost certainly not have the big hole right, so pull it out and use that little rat-tail file to fix the error.

When it's OK, shove it in again, and use your big telescopic rivet gun to put one Monel rivet into the fitting, preferably the topmost one. Then you can untie your bowline and pull the line out.  When you are pushing in the rivets it helps to have a line on your bosun's chair round the mast so you have something to strain against.

Then bang in the other rivets, and attach the stay, if you remembered to bring it up with you.  

Oh, and for heck's sake, remember to tie a line to the power drill.  They make nasty holes in the deck when dropped while running.  Not to mention the electrical flash bang when they bounce over the side.  Don't ask how I know that.

My $0.02.

BN 101?

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Thanks. We're planning to take the mast down this winter, so that will make life easier and I can inspect the mast crane assembly to see if it might come off without too much of a struggle.  I haven't given up hope that there's scope for an attachment to it.

I'm conscious of the need for round holes/no corners and was contemplating using a holesaw of the correct diameter and making an oval wooden jig then grinding the residual centre peaks away.

I had initially assumed that just the backing plate was needed, from the articles I'd seen, but someone (who has a fair bit of boating experience but probably not the amount he thinks he has) mentioned reinforcement and that got me wondering.

The mast is Proctor (out of business years ago), it's an old-school masthead rig, a hefty cruising beast on a conservative sailplan (Westerly Centaur).

Thanks for your inputs.

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12 hours ago, UserError said:

In my case its an old school Proctor beastie.

That sounds like you may have a rather heavy boat too.

If you plan to use that Solent Stay a lot, and/or for long passages, then consider a proper Forestay Fitting with a toggle and an eye terminal. Stays with sails on them tend to fatigue a lot (more) and those T-terminals are not very good for in that respect.

Fuck, I now see that link says more or less the same...

 

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14 hours ago, UserError said:

I'm reading around on fitting a Solent stay and the various stuff I've read often blithely mention fitting a T terminal fitting (attached example from Sail magazine, by Joe Cooper).  They never mention whether reinforcement is needed inside the mast or if the mast is normally thick enough.  In my case its an old school Proctor beastie.

Any experiences of fitting one would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Screenshot_20211009-200421.png

If you will use a Genoa halyard remember to include a halyard fairleed, spectacle 

7C6174DA-9252-4305-92C2-F22AF0858500.jpeg

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48 minutes ago, Fiji Bitter said:

Easier and better to use Tefgel, also on the monel rivets.

Or use Duralac if you are old school.

 

The lubricity of tefgel causes cyclically loaded  fasteners to back out

beware 

mast fitting threaded fasteners  use thread locker compound 

and follow the instructions given by the manufacture ... not stuff you  read on the internet 

many mast components suppliers such as selden , specify pre coating the mating surface to prevent corrosion 

selden describes it as lacquer .. it’s epoxy 

BB9BE3E2-DE81-4AE2-813E-EFBBD9D51512.png

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Never ever seen a monel pop rivet "back out".

Never use a threaded fastener in such an application.

And BTW, I don't need the internet for old fashion spar making, and neither do I need instructions from Selden. B)

Take or leave my free "internet" advice, I just wish the OP good luck with it...

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On 10/10/2021 at 10:43 AM, slug zitski said:

If you will use a Genoa halyard remember to include a halyard fairleed, spectacle 

7C6174DA-9252-4305-92C2-F22AF0858500.jpeg

I'm not familiar with this item so I just looked it up.  RigRite say "Spectacles, are attached to the Mast under the Jib or Spinnaker Halyard entrance, providing a smooth, clean lead for Halyards."  - my halyards are external so don't have entrances so I can't see an application for this, but may have missed it?

 

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34 minutes ago, UserError said:

I'm not familiar with this item so I just looked it up.  RigRite say "Spectacles, are attached to the Mast under the Jib or Spinnaker Halyard entrance, providing a smooth, clean lead for Halyards."  - my halyards are external so don't have entrances so I can't see an application for this, but may have missed it?

 

You indicated that you wish to hang a Solent stay. 

A solent stay is mounted below the headstay 

unless you plan on installing a dedicated sheave box and halyard to service this Solent stay you will be using a masthead halyard 

this masthead halyard will need a fairleed below the Solent stay to keep the halyard inline with the Solent stay 

8A499A9D-6707-45EE-ACE2-1FB2976C2476.jpeg

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On 10/10/2021 at 8:54 AM, Fiji Bitter said:

That sounds like you may have a rather heavy boat too.

If you plan to use that Solent Stay a lot, and/or for long passages, then consider a proper Forestay Fitting with a toggle and an eye terminal. Stays with sails on them tend to fatigue a lot (more) and those T-terminals are not very good for in that respect.

Fuck, I now see that link says more or less the same...

 

26' Centaur @ 3,039 kg/6,700 lb, so on the heavier side.  Only coastal sailing, maybe the odd 30 hour passage in the English Channel, nothing overly demanding.  Been looking for forestay fittings, not finding anything ATM.  Toggles I know, but the mast end eludes me ATM.  EDIT, I was aware of this Wichard babystay tang fitting (pic), which remains an option.   The factory fitted forestay on this mast is attached to a substantial aluminium masthead crane.  

If I had a local rigger, I'd drop in and seed if I could get advice, but we're a bit of an outlier WRT sailing trades establishments, so would also incur travel fees from a rigger visit, on top of the advice fee and I suspect that would kill the project.  I emailed a rigger who is the Westerly specialist about this and some other advice and never heard back from them, despite making it clear I was expecting to pay.   C'est la vie.

WichardBabystayTang.jpg

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1 minute ago, slug zitski said:

You indicated that you wish to hang a Solent stay. 

A solent stay is mounted below the headstay 

unless you plan on installing a dedicated sheave box and halyard to service this Solent stay you will be using a masthead halyard 

this masthead halyard will need a fairleed below the Solent stay to keep the halyard inline with the Solent stay 

8A499A9D-6707-45EE-ACE2-1FB2976C2476.jpeg

Yep, gotcha. Thanks.

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