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I'll share my thoughts on this as I'm the individual Bob has been working with on this design. Lot's of good points here- many questions that can't be answered.  That being said- Bob and I t

Norm: The proposed new NR was 35' L.O.D. and 14,000 lbs.. D/L 183 and SA/D 24.8. It's not a happy story. Doug called me late on a Friday afternoon. "Let 's do a new boat, a smaller version o

Singlehanding  in the pnw. Last 4 Sunday beer can races in the pnw saw top recorded speeds of 10, 13, 9, and 10 knots. 

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Got it Israel.

They all look the same to me but my best guess is a very nice Nordic 44. One of my best designs. I got lucky now and then. Glad you are enjoying it. They sure have a wonderful helm feel.

Nordic 44 reef - Copy.jpg

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8 minutes ago, Grizz said:

Huh- I have a boat with a bridge deck traveler. I didn’t know I wasn’t supposed to like it. Does that mean I have to change boats now?

Don't be ridiculous. You just have to mount one of these at each end, minimum size 12"x12", and file a 27B/6 with your marine insurance provider.

EQD-66_Crushing_Hazard_807ff112-2b17-46f3-aa55-bc074fa90675_large.png?v=1498579765

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Wonderful helm feel, easily driven, and responsive on all points of sail and wind speeds.  I can feel it and the SR21 I had and a friends J92 to this date are my best personal examples of excellent overall design emerging as good to excellent on the water.  I am past 60 and pure reaching speed doesn't interest me as much anymore.  Overall sailing capabilities,   Hell Yes :-)  the art of excellence I really apprecitate.  My hunch is this new BP28 is going to live right in the magic sweet spots I enjoy most.

 

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5 minutes ago, Bob Perry said:

Got it Israel.

They all look the same to me but my best guess is a very nice Nordic 44. One of my best designs. I got lucky now and then. Glad you are enjoying it. They sure have a wonderful helm feel.

Nordic 44 reef - Copy.jpg

That's the one. And it's funny, my wife has enjoyed taking the helm of this boat more than ever before. Really a lot of fun!

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1 hour ago, Crash said:

See!  You did it again.  You just stated your opinion as fact 2 more times, without providing any data to back it up.  I spent years sailing our Beneteau First 30E with a bridgedeck traveler.  No one was hurt or injured in any way, nor even too discomforted.  So I believe it (this is opinion) to be a reasonable compromise.  You BELIEVE it to be dangerous.  YOU get to believe that.  But YOU should state it as an opinion, and NOT AS FACT.

I stand by my assertion that a traveller in that location is dangerous.  It's pretty bleedin' obvious why it is dangerous and uncomfortable, so I am not going to repeat that.  Nor am I going to the play some game of looking for data in a field where there is not a central repository of incidents (which there is for example in may workplaces).  That sort of test is a form of denialism, relying on data which isn't collected.

Of course, you being a sane person and not an eejit, took care when using it to make sure that nobody was injured.  But lack of injuries through careful use is not the same as lack of danger.

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2 hours ago, Bob Perry said:

Misbehavin

I've been communicating with Ron all morning. We are discussing how he could set up his own fan club. If I tell him "Misbehavin" says hello will he know who I am referring to?

Saga 43 anchored.jpg

I just went for a sail on one of these last week!  Nice sailing boat.  Buddy just had it shipped from the East Coast to Seattle last year.  He had a Freeport 36.  Rebuilt that entire boat and then got a Saga.

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18 minutes ago, TwoLegged said:

I stand by my assertion that a traveller in that location is dangerous.  It's pretty bleedin' obvious why it is dangerous and uncomfortable, so I am not going to repeat that.  Nor am I going to the play some game of looking for data in a field where there is not a central repository of incidents (which there is for example in may workplaces).  That sort of test is a form of denialism, relying on data which isn't collected.

Of course, you being a sane person and not an eejit, took care when using it to make sure that nobody was injured.  But lack of injuries through careful use is not the same as lack of danger.

Leggs - just a thought but you might investigate having your Prozac dosage adjusted - you've been uncharacteristically cranky of late.

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What happens on an uncommanded jibe with that sheet? Little good luck and it tangles on the winch handle and nobody gets killed. Little bad luck and it lassos the dog and sleeping crew by the neck and pitches both overboard. 

Count me in on the no-traveller-on-the-bridge-deck group. Looks like it is in the way of nearly everything. But if I were an NA and the client wanted it, that's what I'd draw.

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1 hour ago, TwoLegged said:

I stand by my assertion that a traveller in that location is dangerous.  It's pretty bleedin' obvious why it is dangerous and uncomfortable, so I am not going to repeat that.

You probably have a point - particularly when the traveller is placed adjacent, or nearly adjacent to the companionway - but this one looks to be maybe 16-18" aft.

Nevertheless I will chalk that down as a con - although I think the dangerous contention is not so different than the "dangerous" offset companionways - which are dangerous mainly on paper IMO.

Now for the pros:

- A proper bridgedeck adds a lot to the lateral stiffness of the back end of the hull.  In the book "Offshore Yachts"  Lapworth contributed a chapter and IIRC he said an offshore yacht should have a bridgedeck (I am paraphrasing here).

- There looks like at least a partial bulkhead at the aft end of the bridgedeck, which is where the highly loaded traveller is placed.  Structurally, these are two good reasons to have the traveller there

- Laurie Davidson placed the traveller in the almost exact same location on the Dash 34, albeit with more of a false bridgedeck.  One of the nice things about trimming main on the Dash is that 18" or so gap between the traveller and companionway creates an open lane for the guy on main to quickly swap sides without interfering with the tailers/trimmers when tacking.

- I have sailed on Dash's many times, and have never had issues with the location of the traveller when either going down or coming up from below.  As long as you are aware of where it is.

- It is considered ideal to have the mainsheet at a 90 degree angle (although the mock up of the dodger prevents this).  If the traveler was at the stern, it would be at most 60 degrees, likely less even if you moved the sheet to end boom.  But if you move the sheet to end boom, it could catch the drivers head in a gybe

- Lastly, on the bridgedeck, the traveller and mainsheet controls are within  easier reach of the driver when the situation calls for the driver to both drive and trim main.

 

Edit: I'm not saying a bridgedeck traveller is always the best solution.  One size doesn't fit all IMO.  Heck, I can even see some advantages of a cabin top traveller in the days of the old IOR style ribbon mains.

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DDW: My decisions are not based on a vote here. I could not care less what you think. You are just another critic. If it works for Laurie Davidson I think it will work for me. Those Dash's are great boats. But what would Laurie know?

Elvis: Nice looking dog you have.

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Just noticed that the C&C 27 to the right of me and the Mirage33 to the left...both have bridgedeck travellers...

...guess I’m stuck in the middle...

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Since I have only spent 50 years or so sailing/racing a number of types of boats from 20 to 50' with 2 to 12 people I can attest that many have bridgedecks and I can't remember how many people were injured/frightened by that dangerous setup.  Reason? There weren't any. 

Unintended jibe? Well since the traveller should be cleated no different than any other jibe - when in doubt just cleat in the middle - on the J22 a world champ sailor recommends leaving it cleated in the middle in heavy air all the time. My least favorite is cabin top but understand and appreciate why they are located there and in most cases those mains are less tweakable anyway.  Last few years I have done a number of races on a J92 and trimming main is a joy as the boat is extremely sensitive to main trim.

 

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1 hour ago, SloopJonB said:

Leggs - just a thought but you might investigate having your Prozac dosage adjusted - you've been uncharacteristically cranky of late.

Sloop, you may have mistaken me for someone else :) 
I have never been averse to being the grit in the oyster

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Guess where the mainsheet trav is on NIGHT RUNNER. Right on the bridge deck!

Hey! We can't have music videos here. People will get upset.

Good one fufkin. Looks like they were actually playing, for a change. I still have that album.

Night Runner new.jpg

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6 hours ago, TwoLegged said:

Others will ask whether the price gap exceeds the benefits, and that price gap is big: a bigger J/32 can be had for less than half of that $200,000: https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/2001-j-boats-j-32-8043711/

Sure, the BP28 is prettier, but it doesn't seem to me to move the game on much from the J/32 era: it adds an open transom and the fathead main (which will be great in light winds), but it also reverts to the older uncomfortable and dangerous traveller-on-bridgedeck.  But it doesn't add the extra visibility of modern designs, or the handling innovations.

Comparing a 20+ year old boat price to a new boat?   A new J/32 with sails and electronics would be somewhere between $250K and $300K.

 

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12 minutes ago, slap said:

Comparing a 20+ year old boat price to a new boat?  

Yes. Used cruising boats are plentiful, and relatively cheap, so any boat buyer has a choice to make.  Does the new boat offer enough extra goodness to justify the extra cost?

Those comparisons worked out very differently in the 1970s, when there wasn't a glut of cheap used boats, and factories were churning out new boats.

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Fryer must have been a hell of a sailor to have survived so long with that companionway.

Or did he just stay on starboard tack all the time?

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7 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

Fryer must have been a hell of a sailor to have survived so long with that companionway.

Or did he just stay on starboard tack all the time?

Well Fryer usually did well in Swiftsure - where you are typically on starboard tack most of the way out to the bank and the same on the run home until you round Race Passage.

So maybe the offset companionway was his Swiftsure secret weapon.  

Only half kidding.

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Helm well forward in the cockpit and the mainsheet just in front of it (also a pretty short boom) - bridge deck traveller is the only thing that makes sense to me in this case. That's a nice looking boat.

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46 minutes ago, Bob Perry said:

NR deck plan.jpg

Those are sweet lines! That sheer and transom are just right!! 
 

I’d have to save up for the cabin top winches;)

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Thanks Jim. Few boats have more miles on them than NR.

 

Leggs:

Unfortunately Doug Fryer, owner of NR, passed away two years ago just as we were starting a new, smaller version of NR. The boat sold quickly to a young family in San Francisco who are now enjoying the boat. Doug is much missed by all who sailed with him. Thanks for asking. NR remains a PNW classic.

Thanks Beer. Once and a while I seem to get one right.

Night Runner sternoon.jpg

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1 minute ago, Bob Perry said:

Unfortunately Doug Fryer, owner of NR, passed away two years ago just as we were starting a new, smaller version of NR. The boat sold quickly to a young family in San Francisco who are now enjoying the boat. Doug is much missed by all who sailed with him. Thanks for asking. NR remains a PNW classic.

Thanks, Bob.  I recall you telling of the start on a ne boat, and then Doug's sad death, and then her being up for sail at a relatively low price.  Sad that she has left her home ground, but great to hear that a young family are having fun with her.

Night Runner seems to me to be one of the finest examples of the way you have a relationship with some clients which leads to exceptionally successful out-of-the-ordinary boats.  Frankie, Amati and the carbon cutters have many of the same qualities of highly successful originality, a sort of how-did-they-even-think-of-that-let-alone-do-that quality.

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Bob - I prefer your FB Page.  I apologize for skipping  a number of comments from the peanut gallery so perhaps I missed reading this. 

This new design looks a lot like a 26' that Will Porter or you drew a good number of years ago.  That design got a lot of compliments.   As I remember a lot of very practical ideas incorporated into that design that appealed to posters.  I picture this new design fitted out with a lot of DNA from a mini transat.  Something to go places in where the Islander might think twice about venturing.  I like it! 

I recently saw what I think is one of the late Islander Bahama versions looking brand new.  Somebody put some time into that boat.  Best of luck with the new design but I think it is impossible to draw a better looking 27/28 footer than the Islander.  

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I guess Dick Carter didn't know what he was doing either. Enjoyed our Carter 30 immensely.

5 years, no complaints from us about the bridgedeck traveller. We even sailed bluewater. No that can't be, must be fake.

 

Wimpole 3.jpg

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7 hours ago, Grizz said:

Huh- I have a boat with a bridge deck traveler. I didn’t know I wasn’t supposed to like it. Does that mean I have to change boats now?

Why does the 'dangerous offset companionway' argument come to mind...

Two legged & Brent Swain have a lot in common. Both highly opinionated with little or nothing WRT actual achievement to back those opinions up.

FKT

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6 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Two legged & Brent Swain have a lot in common. Both highly opinionated

Aw bless.  My very own Aussie troll has popped in to demonstrate his macho prowess by sharing some of his usual content-free personal abuse.

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14 minutes ago, bajakiter said:

I guess Dick Carter didn't know what he was doing either. Enjoyed our Carter 30 immensely.

5 years, no complaints from us about the bridgedeck traveller. We even sailed bluewater. No that can't be, must be fake.

On boats of that era there was not much choice.  The short booms barely reached the front of the cockpit, never mind the transom, and the stern was too narrow for a useful traveller.

Glad you were happy with the boat and the traveller.  But that doesn't mean there aren't better layouts when the design allows.

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19 minutes ago, bajakiter said:

I guess Dick Carter didn't know what he was doing either. Enjoyed our Carter 30 immensely.

5 years, no complaints from us about the bridgedeck traveller. We even sailed bluewater. No that can't be, must be fake.

 

Wimpole 3.jpg

What, no way you survived both a poor sailing IOR pig boat, and a dangerous traveler on the bridgedeck.  You must have the luck of the Gods!

 

PS.  great looking boat!!!

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5 minutes ago, Crash said:

What, no way you survived both a poor sailing IOR pig boat, and a dangerous traveler on the bridgedeck.  You must have the luck of the Gods!

 

PS.  great looking boat!!!

The things people do out of poverty.  /s

 

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6 hours ago, TwoLegged said:

I stand by my assertion that a traveller in that location is dangerous.  It's pretty bleedin' obvious why it is dangerous and uncomfortable, so I am not going to repeat that.

Whatever else may be said about a bridge deck traveler, anyone who has worked with rigging can plainly see the danger.  The number one rule on a line crew (four summers in college) was "Never stand in the bite".  Meaning don't stand where failure of a sling or block could kill you when lifting power poles, transformers or pulling heavy cable.  Vigorously enforced by the experienced crew watching out for the kid (me), I have never forgotten that lesson.  Any traveler anywhere is potentially dangerous if someone sits on it, especially on big, fast multihulls with extreme loads on the sheets.  Duh.

In the Bite
https://ibew1245.com/2006/03/16/in-the-bite/

"“In the bite” is when a person’s body is located in such a manner that if the stored energy of the situation were to be suddenly released serious injury could occur."

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17 minutes ago, ProaSailor said:

 "Never stand in the bite". 

On a sailboat, you are pretty much always standing (or sitting) "in the bite" [sp? did you mean bight?] - a catastrophic failure of just about any piece of standing or running rigging could potentially put you in a world of hurt. After 30 years in the offshore industry, having worked with many heavy loads, I respect the latent forces and the engineering that goes into making the risks manageable. A bridgedeck traveller isn't any more dangerous than a sheet winch or a boom vang if it is properly engineered and maintained. In my opinion. Most of this thread is driven by opinions that some consider facts.

Ish: you beat me to it. BIGHT

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13 minutes ago, ProaSailor said:

The number one rule on a line crew (four summers in college) was "Never stand in the bite".  Meaning don't stand where failure of a sling or block could kill you when lifting power poles, transformers or pulling heavy cable.  Vigorously enforced by the experienced crew watching out for the kid (me), I have never forgotten that lesson.

I have never done a line crew, but most springtimes I get a youngster to help me shift trees that have come down over the winter.  Their job is to attach and unhitch the towing straps while I drive, and the key part of the safety drill is "stay out of line".  There is more to it than that, but "loads are dangerous" is the starting point.

Even modest-sized boats can generate heavy loads.

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I feel like I’m bighting into a Sailing Anarchy advertising troll apple on this whole thing. One of the most prolific designers ever providing context, along with countless accounts of no incidents, and zero references to an actual incident, how is this still going on about traveler location.
 

Anyway, regardless of where the traveler lands, still dig that BP28 and this has been fun.

 

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4 hours ago, Bob Perry said:

 Few boats have more miles on them than NR. NR remains a PNW classic.

Night Runner sternoon.jpg

Yeah that thing were fast I remember the year I did SS on General Hospital daybreak broke and then there was this what looked like a old timey "cruising boat" appeared out of nowhere I bleary on the rail thought "where did that come from?" 

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9 hours ago, Bob Perry said:

DDW: My decisions are not based on a vote here. I could not care less what you think. You are just another critic.

Now who's gotten up on the wrong side of the bed?

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6 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Why does the 'dangerous offset companionway' argument come to mind...

Two legged & Brent Swain have a lot in common. Both highly opinionated with little or nothing WRT actual achievement to back those opinions up.

FKT

Did you forget to take your pills grandpa?

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Well my first real boat had a bridgedeck Traveller and I’m still here. 

A boat I’ve admired, the old Westerly Discus 33 from the late 70s had a cool bridge deck with the the Traveller attached. 

C26156AA-51A7-4475-8DE7-A75472F46718.jpeg.0cf81845664b840fb16ee4a11d315a44.jpeg

I figure Laurent Giles knew what he was doing. I think the design counts as blue water. As evidenced by one of these doing the northwest passage - both ways. And of course, no offset companionway. If I had one I’d probably see about retrofitting a tiller, though.

Strangely the design I find most intriguing from Mr. Perry is the unrealised “Gypsy“ - simply because it reminds me of a boat my father used to own. Apparently I weathered my first Force 10 on it - but as I was six months old, can’t remember the specifics.

82704DE2-10B5-45AA-BC49-81A5903CD4A6.jpeg.002f30bf8e043d9553734a4d219d3e0f.jpeg

You may have noticed that in this post the word Traveller is capitalised. My phone autocorrect causes this - because in Ireland, the correct term for “Gypsy” is a “Traveller”, as in, “a member of the Traveller community”. Funny, huh? 

 

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10 hours ago, Bob Perry said:

Thanks Jim. Few boats have more miles on them than NR.

 

Leggs:

Unfortunately Doug Fryer, owner of NR, passed away two years ago just as we were starting a new, smaller version of NR. The boat sold quickly to a young family in San Francisco who are now enjoying the boat. Doug is much missed by all who sailed with him. Thanks for asking. NR remains a PNW classic.

Thanks Beer. Once and a while I seem to get one right.

Night Runner sternoon.jpg

The spinnaker appears to fly very high on that picture. Is the pole at a 45 degree angle to the mast?

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Norm:

The proposed new NR was 35' L.O.D. and 14,000 lbs.. D/L 183 and SA/D 24.8.

It's not a happy story. Doug called me late on a Friday afternoon. "Let 's do a new boat, a smaller version of NR that will be easier for me to handle." I was shocked. Doug had said many times, "They will have to drag my cold and lifeless body off NR." But he wanted a new NR so I understood. Doug's wife wanted a dodger and the offset companionway on NR makes a dodger a real problem. The new NR would have a dodger.

I got excited. I had been trying for 40 years to get Doug to do a bigger version of NR. That did not work. But I looked forward to working with Doug again. It would be fun. Doug lived in Anacortes so the Betts yard would be the logical choice of builder and that works well for me. I'm an hour away. That weekend I got to work on a new hull that echoed the features of NR.

Sunday night the phone rang and it was Doug to tell me he had some bad medical news and we had better hold off on the new boat. Shitski! I soon learned that the "bad medical news" was worse than I imagined. But I wanted to do something to help keep Doug's spirits up so I continued on with the preliminary design of the never to be realized NR. Doug and I met at the Betts yard. I gave him the drawings. He liked the design but it was clear, although he wouldn't say it, that he would not go ahead.

I raced one more time with Doug. It was a shitty, drifter for most of the course but you always have a good time sailing with Doug and it was fun once again to feel NR come alive in the anemic puffs. After the race the "ritual rums" came out, an old NR tradition and we sat around the cockpit while Doug recited old sailor poems, one after another and most of them with some  bawdy humor. Nobody wanted to go home. Nobody wanted to leave Doug. But I had an hour's drive home and I did not want too much rum so I left. That's the last time I saw Doug.

Fryer ssp 10-21-21.jpg

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11 hours ago, ProaSailor said:

Duh.

Yeah, where the traveller is about 16’ across the aft and has a tremendous amount of potential energy in a tack or gybe. 
 

But again, we’re talking about a cruising boat that can do some racing. I’m going to venture that no one will be injured or killed by the traveller on this design.

Of course, I’m only basing that on the fact(opinion) that no one suffered injury or death on my 1949 cutter due to the poor choice of bridge deck location by the designer.

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 Misbehavin':

I believe that chute was Doug's old heavy starcut. It was a small chute and rode high. Doug got a lot of use out of that sail. Doug liked starcuts.

 

Bajakiter:

Love your Carter 30. Great boats.

Night Runner Lin.jpg

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On 10/12/2021 at 5:53 PM, Bob Perry said:

Jon:

That is the one and only Lafitte 66. Now living in San Fran and much loved by the live aboard owner. That boat was originally owned by Bus Mosbacher's brother.

Crash:

Yes! the one thing I'd like to avoid for a boat designed for light to moderate conditions is a boat that drags its transom corner. That's a lot of drag unless you are doing over hull speed.

Sailman:

No, not at all. Those two boats, carbon cutter and new 28 are very different designs. The carbon cutters have a D/L around 250, about the same as a Valiant 40. This puts the carbon cutters at what I'd call "heavy" displ today. Funny when you think my critic in 1974 considered the V-40 "too light" to be a serious offshore boat.

The 28 has a D /L of 168, about what I would call the "heavy side of medium" by today's standards. With the carbon cutter I needed different bow sections to get the Cp I was after and a more balanced shape to insure an easy helm through a wide range of heel angles.

It's really apples to oranges. Two different shapes for two different problems. The 28 bow sections are much more U shaped then the bow section of the carbon cutter which show a lot more deadrise forward. This set of lines I gave to Will Porter so he could create a 3D model for the 28. He smoothed out some of my awkward spots, notably the forward most immersed sections. Will has the eye and is a pleasure to work with. It's reassuring for me to know he has the talent to take over where I leave off. Remember, Will and I have worked together since he was 14 years old, at least.

Isn't this fun. Just like the old days.

 

McCuddy lines 6-25.jpg

Thanks for the images.   The discussion on the transom digging in, as Crash posted, raises a question I've tried to ponder as the casual user (without falling in while hanging over the side).   The designer presumably must consider waterlines (different term?) under the various degrees of heel, how symmetrical he wants the hull to be, what digs in first, etc.   Would that be affected much by sail area vs wind speed (i.e. a 15' heel under a small jib and reefed main in heavy wind vs full sail in lighter wind, or just a tiny difference from more weight aloft?).    

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4 hours ago, Bob Perry said:

Norm:

The proposed new NR was 35' L.O.D. and 14,000 lbs.. D/L 183 and SA/D 24.8.

It's not a happy story. Doug called me late on a Friday afternoon. "Let 's do a new boat, a smaller version of NR that will be easier for me to handle." I was shocked. Doug had said many times, "They will have to drag my cold and lifeless body off NR." But he wanted a new NR so I understood. Doug's wife wanted a dodger and the offset companionway on NR makes a dodger a real problem. The new NR would have a dodger.

I got excited. I had been trying for 40 years to get Doug to do a bigger version of NR. That did not work. But I looked forward to working with Doug again. It would be fun. Doug lived in Anacortes so the Betts yard would be the logical choice of builder and that works well for me. I'm an hour away. That weekend I got to work on a new hull that echoed the features of NR.

Sunday night the phone rang and it was Doug to tell me he had some bad medical news and we had better hold off on the new boat. Shitski! I soon learned that the "bad medical news" was worse than I imagined. But I wanted to do something to help keep Doug's spirits up so I continued on with the preliminary design of the never to be realized NR. Doug and I met at the Betts yard. I gave him the drawings. He liked the design but it was clear, although he wouldn't say it, that he would not go ahead.

I raced one more time with Doug. It was a shitty, drifter for most of the course but you always have a good time sailing with Doug and it was fun once again to feel NR come alive in the anemic puffs. After the race the "ritual rums" came out, an old NR tradition and we sat around the cockpit while Doug recited old sailor poems, one after another and most of them with some  bawdy humor. Nobody wanted to go home. Nobody wanted to leave Doug. But I had an hour's drive home and I did not want too much rum so I left. That's the last time I saw Doug.

Fryer ssp 10-21-21.jpg

That is one really great looking sailboat design.  I could be very happy for the rest of my life on a boat like this.  It's really too bad he never had the chance to build it.  Life isn't very fair sometimes...

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6 hours ago, Bob Perry said:

Norm:

The proposed new NR was 35' L.O.D. and 14,000 lbs.. D/L 183 and SA/D 24.8.

It's not a happy story. Doug called me late on a Friday afternoon. "Let 's do a new boat, a smaller version of NR that will be easier for me to handle." I was shocked. Doug had said many times, "They will have to drag my cold and lifeless body off NR." But he wanted a new NR so I understood. Doug's wife wanted a dodger and the offset companionway on NR makes a dodger a real problem. The new NR would have a dodger.

I got excited. I had been trying for 40 years to get Doug to do a bigger version of NR. That did not work. But I looked forward to working with Doug again. It would be fun. Doug lived in Anacortes so the Betts yard would be the logical choice of builder and that works well for me. I'm an hour away. That weekend I got to work on a new hull that echoed the features of NR.

Sunday night the phone rang and it was Doug to tell me he had some bad medical news and we had better hold off on the new boat. Shitski! I soon learned that the "bad medical news" was worse than I imagined. But I wanted to do something to help keep Doug's spirits up so I continued on with the preliminary design of the never to be realized NR. Doug and I met at the Betts yard. I gave him the drawings. He liked the design but it was clear, although he wouldn't say it, that he would not go ahead.

I raced one more time with Doug. It was a shitty, drifter for most of the course but you always have a good time sailing with Doug and it was fun once again to feel NR come alive in the anemic puffs. After the race the "ritual rums" came out, an old NR tradition and we sat around the cockpit while Doug recited old sailor poems, one after another and most of them with some  bawdy humor. Nobody wanted to go home. Nobody wanted to leave Doug. But I had an hour's drive home and I did not want too much rum so I left. That's the last time I saw Doug.

Fryer ssp 10-21-21.jpg

I think I might be onto an entirely new definition of lust. Classic interior. Exactly as we like it.

Just two person's opinion and no we won't try to proselytize everyone else.

Doug fryer would have loved this boat very much, that I am certain.

 

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Lark:

As audiophiles like to say, "Everything makes a difference."

The problem is getting a modern VPP program to recognize and evaluate nuance issue like sail combinations.

Yes, I do look at heeled waterlines but on a small boat where crew weight can be critical I don't mind "unbalanced" waterlines on a performance boat. The shape needs to adapt to the performance target of the specific condition. On cruising boats I think waterlines should be more balanced to insure a consistent helm.

Flying Tiger 10m bow on.jpg

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9 hours ago, Bob Perry said:

Norm:

The proposed new NR was 35' L.O.D. and 14,000 lbs.. D/L 183 and SA/D 24.8.

It's not a happy story. Doug called me late on a Friday afternoon. "Let 's do a new boat, a smaller version of NR that will be easier for me to handle." I was shocked. Doug had said many times, "They will have to drag my cold and lifeless body off NR." But he wanted a new NR so I understood. Doug's wife wanted a dodger and the offset companionway on NR makes a dodger a real problem. The new NR would have a dodger.

I got excited. I had been trying for 40 years to get Doug to do a bigger version of NR. That did not work. But I looked forward to working with Doug again. It would be fun. Doug lived in Anacortes so the Betts yard would be the logical choice of builder and that works well for me. I'm an hour away. That weekend I got to work on a new hull that echoed the features of NR.

Sunday night the phone rang and it was Doug to tell me he had some bad medical news and we had better hold off on the new boat. Shitski! I soon learned that the "bad medical news" was worse than I imagined. But I wanted to do something to help keep Doug's spirits up so I continued on with the preliminary design of the never to be realized NR. Doug and I met at the Betts yard. I gave him the drawings. He liked the design but it was clear, although he wouldn't say it, that he would not go ahead.

I raced one more time with Doug. It was a shitty, drifter for most of the course but you always have a good time sailing with Doug and it was fun once again to feel NR come alive in the anemic puffs. After the race the "ritual rums" came out, an old NR tradition and we sat around the cockpit while Doug recited old sailor poems, one after another and most of them with some  bawdy humor. Nobody wanted to go home. Nobody wanted to leave Doug. But I had an hour's drive home and I did not want too much rum so I left. That's the last time I saw Doug.

Fryer ssp 10-21-21.jpg

Classic Perry.  Classic design.  Noice.

Even Two Legged should be happy about that main sheeting arrangement...

Always tough to lose a Really Nice Guy.

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On 10/14/2021 at 2:42 PM, Bull City said:

Bridge deck travelers, twin rudders, dodgers.  When are we going to cover the hazards of offset companionways?

klJZFFg.gif.44d54a6b05e50be4500634117d5cf542.gif

the absolute horror of the offset companionway is now settled science...recieved knowledge.  we have moved on to the trial of the bridgedeck traveller, the jury has yet to recess.

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1 hour ago, chester said:

the absolute horror of the offset companionway is now settled science...recieved knowledge.  we have moved on to the trial of the bridgedeck traveller, the jury has yet to recess.

I think that the traveller issue needs more deliberation, so I have started a separate thread:

 

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Now I’m even more afraid of my cutter. It’s bad enough that I have to be on port tack with that scary offset companionway, but now I’m going to possibly mangle my crew with the traveller:o before we sink!

36ACA56F-CA4D-40C7-AE31-EDDBAC19413A.jpeg

7FDD1D35-B015-4F21-B0FB-6C4D65AD8A0D.jpeg

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Looks like a death trap Beer. Almost as bad - no open transom, so any water is going to fill up that cockpit like grandmas bathtub. 

Better at least reinforce it, or the weight of the water will certainly result in said salty jacuzzi overstressing the laminate and collapsing down into the engine bay!

 

 

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