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Threats of hanging scientists? Middle Ages redux

It's frightening that these trolls live amongst us still.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2021-10-14/covid-scientists-receiving-death-threats-abuse/100533564

Abusive emails are standard fare for experts like Julie Leask, who regularly comment publicly on COVID-19.

WARNING: This story contains strong language that some people may find offensive.

Professor Leask recently received an email that read:

Shove that shit vaccine propaganda up your arse, Julie … Your hypochondria, OCD, and insecurities are pathetic … What a fawning, obsequious useless prat you are.

Another read:

You've lost all ethical credibility and history will show people like you as enablers of the most vindictive, evil and corrupt regime in this countries [sic] history.

We the people will remember you and your mates and when this is over, we will take everything from you all just like you're advocating doing to us.

But Professor Leask, of the University of Sydney's school of nursing and midwifery, says this is "nothing" compared with the attacks others have received.

"Recently a colleague got death threats, including an email with the subject line: 'enjoy the gallows, c**t', and in the email: 'time for you to die.'"

They are not alone.

A new survey of scientists around the world published in the journal Nature has found 15 per cent of 321 respondents received death threats after speaking about COVID-19.

And 22 per cent had received threats of physical or sexual violence, while six had been actually physically attacked.

While the surveys found scientists have had mostly positive experiences with the media, the abuse is having a chilling effect.

About 40 per cent of the Australian scientists and 60 per cent of international scientists say the attacks have impacted their willingness to speak to the media in the future.

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Professor Catherine Bennett discusses the latest Victorian COVID outbreak
Catherine Bennett regularly appears on television.(7.30 Report)

But Professor Bennett has been struck by how her comments were interpreted differently by different people.

"One day you get called Dan Andrews' mouthpiece and the next day you get an email castigating you for undermining the Premier."

 

Meli or Easy ?

 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

He doesn't help himself when he flip flops and being a career bureaucrat.  

So, "career bureaucrats", otherwise known as public servants to some, deserve to be killed for a career choice in public service rather than the private sector, where they could make a lot more money?

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5 minutes ago, accnick said:

So, "career bureaucrats", otherwise known as public servants to some, deserve to be killed for a career choice in public service rather than the private sector, where they could make a lot more money?

No not at all.  Nor should any politician be subjected to that - should they?  At the end of the day a career bureaucrat is essentially an non-elected politician.  I don't condone any of the rabid vitriolic attacks on scientists, bureaucrats, politicians or even social media posters.

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KSFB just hates itself and is projecting that hatred onto anyone it disagrees with. It got covid wrong, everything it held dear and true about covid is wrong, and doesn't want to accept it. It's in the final death throes of the grieving process but acceptance is proving a difficult stretch.

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36 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

No not at all.  Nor should any politician be subjected to that - should they?  At the end of the day a career bureaucrat is essentially an non-elected politician.  I don't condone any of the rabid vitriolic attacks on scientists, bureaucrats, politicians or even social media posters.

Wrong

A career bureaucrat is an administrator. A person who keeps the gears turning, not a person who decides policy such as which way to turn the gears.

You don't understand anything.

- DSK

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5 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Wrong

A career bureaucrat is an administrator. A person who keeps the gears turning, not a person who decides policy such as which way to turn the gears.

You don't understand anything.

- DSK

I suggest you watch a UK TV series called Yes Minister.  Then you might understand how Governments work.  You really have no idea of how things work.

Then once you have done the easy video entertainment learning approach get a copy of the book - Conceptual Models and the Cuban Missile Crisis by Graham Ellison. 

 

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18 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

LOL.  The hypocrisy cracks me up.  On the one hand the boot goes in for someone wearing a yellow star and then the other side uses a similar analogy by referring to Pogroms!

 

False analogy.

One is correct, the other is a fucking idiot.

Of course, your sympathy for fucking idiots is no surprise.

Birds of a feather....

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12 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

I suggest you watch a UK TV series called Yes Minister.  Then you might understand how Governments work.  You really have no idea of how things work.

Then once you have done the easy video entertainment learning approach get a copy of the book - Conceptual Models and the Cuban Missile Crisis by Graham Ellison. 

 

Sure, a TV show and one book are going to teach all about "how things work"

You're a special kind of stupid.

Except for being the kind that won't shut the fuck up, that kind of stupid is all too common. You have some additional, special, and powerful, kinds of stupid at work in there, too.

 

7 minutes ago, Ease the sheet. said:
1 hour ago, Kate short for Bob said:

...

Not everyone continues to support outdated data.

It's called science.

If you had half a fucking brain, you'd try it.

KSFB is working very hard to SEEM smart because it believes that seeming is better than actually BEING smart.

- DSK

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26 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

Didn't want to over tax you too quickly.  But you are dreaming or delusional if you think Career Bureaucrats aren't politicians.

So career bureaucracts are up for election?

 

Could you be any more stupid?

 

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It is Graham Allison, not Ellison.

The work cited is a 1969 article in the American Political Science Review. It is not a book.

Essence of Decision: Explaining the Cuban Missile Crisis is Allison’s book.

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37 minutes ago, jerseyguy said:

It is Graham Allison, not Ellison.

The work cited is a 1969 article in the American Political Science Review. It is not a book.

Essence of Decision: Explaining the Cuban Missile Crisis is Allison’s book.

Thanks for the corrections.  I read the paper and book in 1988.  So the memory was 100% exact.

The book has since been revised 1999 using evidence that was released in the Kennedy tapes and declassified Russian Files.

His more recent book Destined for War is also interesting where he writes about how the displacement of one super power for another inevitably leads to war.

However the point is that Politicians may make laws and policies but there are many actors involved in the actual implementation including non-elected bureaucrats.  The end result being that the intent of the law is often not implemented and there are often unintended consequences.

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1 hour ago, Ease the sheet. said:

So career bureaucracts are up for election?

 

You are the one being stupid or deliberately ignoring that there is more than one definition of politics and politicians.

You are naive if you think a Government Bureaucrat does not engage in politics.

Evidence of that is the revolving doors in Government agencies after a change in elected representatives. 

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3 hours ago, Kate short for Bob said:

LOL.  The hypocrisy cracks me up.  On the one hand the boot goes in for someone wearing a yellow star and then the other side uses a similar analogy by referring to Pogroms!

 

Sure it's a bit of a conundrum.

Those that would appropriate a symbol of evil for their own inane purpose now terrorize the scientists.

Be careful who you affiliate with.

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Qrona Anarchy trolls derail yet another thread right from the start with blatant bullshit.

How very not surprising.

 

This forum has lost it's allure. As it is, it's no longer informative nor entertaining.

It is no longer worth the time or the clicks.

 

Maybe it's time for this ship's captain to have some bullshitters walk the plank.

 

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2 hours ago, Grog said:

Qrona Anarchy trolls derail yet another thread right from the start with blatant bullshit.

How very not surprising.

 

This forum has lost it's allure. As it is, it's no longer informative nor entertaining.

It is no longer worth the time or the clicks.

 

Maybe it's time for this ship's captain to have some bullshitters walk the plank.

 

I discovered today that the anti-vaxxers are now calling themselves "purebloods".  I don't know about you but I think that is really quite entertaining in the YCMTSU department.  The anti-vaxxers are truly batshit crazy.

Hey, @Kate short for Bob, @slug zitskiand @Wess, do any of you consider yourselves to be "pureblood"?  I forget, I think some of you are vaxxed, but I can't remember which ones.  

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1 hour ago, Rain Man said:

I discovered today that the anti-vaxxers are now calling themselves "purebloods".  I don't know about you but I think that is really quite entertaining in the YCMTSU department.  The anti-vaxxers are truly batshit crazy.

Hey, @Kate short for Bob, @slug zitskiand @Wess, do any of you consider yourselves to be "pureblood"?  I forget, I think some of you are vaxxed, but I can't remember which ones.  

Are the Purebloods like Nazi Aryans...can't marry or breed with non Purebloods?

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30 minutes ago, NeedAClew said:

Are the Purebloods like Nazi Aryans...can't marry or breed with non Purebloods?

I think 'inbreds' is a more accurate description.

FKT

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2 hours ago, Rain Man said:

I discovered today that the anti-vaxxers are now calling themselves "purebloods".  I don't know about you but I think that is really quite entertaining in the YCMTSU department.  The anti-vaxxers are truly batshit crazy.

Hey, @Kate short for Bob, @slug zitskiand @Wess, do any of you consider yourselves to be "pureblood"?  I forget, I think some of you are vaxxed, but I can't remember which ones.  

Firstly I'm not an anti-vaxxer.  Everyone who is at risk and has underlying health conditions should get vaccinated as soon as they can.

I do note the irony in your post though.  Isn't it the rabid Anti-antivaxxers's (the Pro-vaxxers) that are promoting the "pureblood" concepts of:

  • no jab no job;
  • last in line for medical treatment;
  • confinement to barracks;
  • no travel;
  • no rights to attend sporting or entertainment events;
  • let them die;
  • and so on and so on?
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22 hours ago, Kate short for Bob said:

You are the one being stupid or deliberately ignoring that there is more than one definition of politics and politicians.

You are naive if you think a Government Bureaucrat does not engage in politics.

Evidence of that is the revolving doors in Government agencies after a change in elected representatives. 

I'm happy to accept the dictionary meaning.

You seem to have no such limitations.

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11 hours ago, Kate short for Bob said:

Firstly I'm not an anti-vaxxer.  Everyone who is at risk and has underlying health conditions should get vaccinated as soon as they can.

 

Also known as "everyone"

The extraneous verbiage reveals you as an anti-vaxxer, you're just trying to be sneaky. You're not very good at it.

- DSK

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The "revolving doors" are the presidential appointees that required Senate confirmation and the Schedule C people. The latter often try to "burrow in" to a Civil Service job to stay employed, but it's hard because they are recognized as politically aligned because that's how they got the Schedule C job. Lifers don't want them.

The vast majority of Civil Service employees are lifers, working through many presidents. They are skilled at office politics. That's how they get promoted. 

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15 hours ago, Kate short for Bob said:

  Everyone who is at risk and has underlying health conditions should get vaccinated as soon as they can.

 

I think this is a typo.....because I believe you agree that healthy but "at risk due to age" candidates should also get vaccinated.

FWIW:

I dont like references to progroms

I dont like personal threats to anyone on social media, even if I strongly disagree with their views.

Yes Minister is a dated and satirical look at the British civil service

Thousands of people with senior jobs in the public sector are not politicians. Holding a political view does not make you a politician.  I do not think Fauci is a politician. 

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3 hours ago, EYESAILOR said:

Holding a political view does not make you a politician. 

However to rise to the top in bureaucracy you have to be good at politics.  Sometimes that will mean adjusting your public comments contrary to your beliefs.  Fauci has admitted publicly that he announced some things that were contrary to his scientific view in order to elicit a particular response.

A successful Bureaucrat plays politics within their organisation and the higher they rise the more they play politics in the interface with the elected politicians.

A standard definition of politics is:

activities aimed at improving someone's status or increasing power within an organization.
"yet another discussion of office politics and personalities"
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21 hours ago, Rain Man said:

I discovered today that the anti-vaxxers are now calling themselves "purebloods".  I don't know about you but I think that is really quite entertaining in the YCMTSU department.  The anti-vaxxers are truly batshit crazy.

[... snipped the wake up call for the bullshitters, sorry =]

OK, still playing: This could be somewhat entertaining if it didn't actually kill people. I have no sense of humor left for these raving lunatics.

"Pureblood"?! FFS!

Do these clowns even have the slightest idea of what they are trying to tell? How "pure" is properly pure? Is no Covid vaccination enough? Or does that include Tetanus, Polio and so on? Maybe "pure" does mean running in the family? First grade only? That would explain at least some of their degenerated idiocy.

And don't even get me started on the Nazi analogy of that BS claim! Och!

 

I do agree on the batshit crazy claim. Not that bats have enjoyed any Most Wanted Pet Awards in the past two years, but it somehow fits that audience.

 

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5 hours ago, Kate short for Bob said:

However to rise to the top in bureaucracy you have to be good at politics.  Sometimes that will mean adjusting your public comments contrary to your beliefs.  Fauci has admitted publicly that he announced some things that were contrary to his scientific view in order to elicit a particular response.

A successful Bureaucrat plays politics within their organisation and the higher they rise the more they play politics in the interface with the elected politicians.

A standard definition of politics is:

activities aimed at improving someone's status or increasing power within an organization.
"yet another discussion of office politics and personalities"

Rising to the top in any organization requires political skills often in a good sense.

Fauci is a poor example because he has refused promotion to senior positions several times and has remained at his current job for 37 years during both Republican and Democrat administrations.  He has been honored by Presidents from both parties but was ultimately awarded the Presidential medal of freedom (highest civilian honor that we have) by a Republican president. He was recruited as a senior advisor to Trump and Biden and has never revealed a political affiliation.

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2 minutes ago, EYESAILOR said:

Rising to the top in any organization requires political skills often in a good sense.

Fauci is a poor example because he has refused promotion to senior positions several times and has remained at his current job for 37 years during both Republican and Democrat administrations.  He has been honored by Presidents from both parties but was ultimately awarded the Presidential medal of freedom (highest civilian honor that we have) by a Republican president. He was recruited as a senior advisor to Trump and Biden and has never revealed a political affiliation.

The CV of the consummate politician - able to duck dive weave both ways.  When did he get time to keep his research skills up to date in the last 37 years?

So you don't deny that he played politics with the general public by making statements that scientifically he couldn't justify but he did so because he wanted to influence a certain behaviour?  Surely his role is to be resolutely true to science and nothing else.

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5 hours ago, Kate short for Bob said:

However to rise to the top in bureaucracy you have to be good at politics.  Sometimes that will mean adjusting your public comments contrary to your beliefs.  Fauci has admitted publicly that he announced some things that were contrary to his scientific view in order to elicit a particular respon

You have to have people skills (if you want to call people skills politics that's fine) as well as expertise to be a good bureaucrat. That's why scheduled aviation is safe, that's why oceans are not completely fished out, that's why there is this here internet. 

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6 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

The CV of the consummate politician - able to duck dive weave both ways.  When did he get time to keep his research skills up to date in the last 37 years?

 

That might be true of your politicians and civil servants in New Zealand.....and perhaps that is a good thing. Over here it is a unusual for politicians to change party allegiances.

Regarding Fauci's research skills? Anthony Fauci is an incredibly smart guy......do you have any idea how hard it is to get into Cornell Medical School and then graduate top of your class.? When he was doing front line research himself, he developed therapies for PAN and Wegener's disease that were considered major break through and a cure for formerly fatal diseases.  Wiki tells us that he was the 13th most cited research scientist in the world during the 20 years between 1983 and 2002.....in any discipline!  He devoted a significant portion of his life to AIDS research. When he was our age, instead of posting pseudo science on sailing websites, he was developing therapies that actually saved lives. He is both an intellectual giant and a dedicated physician. He has turned down offers to become director of the NIH because his job as head of the NIAID unit within NIH allowed him to combine his leadership/ administration skills and participate in hands on research.   At age 80, does he have as much time for research as he used to have?  I doubt it but make no mistake, Anthony Fauci is one of those people who leaves the world a better place than he found it......something not many people can claim.

28 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

So you don't deny that he played politics

I do deny.   In fact Fauci requires a thick skin to do his job, both dealing with politicians and misinformed public opinion.

If you have anyone in New Zealand who has combined a life in medicine and public service that comes even close to that of Anthony Fauci, I would sure like to hear about it.

Im sorry to jump in like this but there are so few intelligent, selfless honorable people in this world that one cannot help but admire them. 

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43 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

The CV of the consummate politician - able to duck dive weave both ways.  When did he get time to keep his research skills up to date in the last 37 years?

So you don't deny that he played politics with the general public by making statements that scientifically he couldn't justify but he did so because he wanted to influence a certain behaviour?  Surely his role is to be resolutely true to science and nothing else.

So you think that a person heading up a huge department still does all the research? You said that you have studied - do you mean facebook?

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44 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

The CV of the consummate politician - able to duck dive weave both ways.  When did he get time to keep his research skills up to date in the last 37 years?

So you don't deny that he played politics with the general public by making statements that scientifically he couldn't justify but he did so because he wanted to influence a certain behaviour?  Surely his role is to be resolutely true to science and nothing else.

I'm sorry if Dr. Fauci hurt your feelings because he's a real doctor and he's much smarter than you.

His duty is to public health, as guided by the best scientific evidence available. You however have no responsibility and can enjoy slagging people you hate for frivolous reasons.

- DSK

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48 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

 When did he get time to keep his research skills up to date in the last 37 years?

 

 

1B8D64FA-2B4D-4630-AE07-4FE7779ECE7A.gif

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On 10/15/2021 at 7:49 AM, Rain Man said:

I discovered today that the anti-vaxxers are now calling themselves "purebloods". 

Harry Potter reference ?

This could become serious when they magic themselves into power !

Are they all channelling that interesting fellow in viking fancy dress from the *cough* coup attempt.

 

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On 10/13/2021 at 5:01 PM, ShortForBob said:

Threats of hanging scientists? Middle Ages redux

It's frightening that these trolls live amongst us still.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2021-10-14/covid-scientists-receiving-death-threats-abuse/100533564

Abusive emails are standard fare for experts like Julie Leask, who regularly comment publicly on COVID-19.

WARNING: This story contains strong language that some people may find offensive.

Professor Leask recently received an email that read:

Shove that shit vaccine propaganda up your arse, Julie … Your hypochondria, OCD, and insecurities are pathetic … What a fawning, obsequious useless prat you are.

Another read:

You've lost all ethical credibility and history will show people like you as enablers of the most vindictive, evil and corrupt regime in this countries [sic] history.

We the people will remember you and your mates and when this is over, we will take everything from you all just like you're advocating doing to us.

But Professor Leask, of the University of Sydney's school of nursing and midwifery, says this is "nothing" compared with the attacks others have received.

"Recently a colleague got death threats, including an email with the subject line: 'enjoy the gallows, c**t', and in the email: 'time for you to die.'"

They are not alone.

A new survey of scientists around the world published in the journal Nature has found 15 per cent of 321 respondents received death threats after speaking about COVID-19.

And 22 per cent had received threats of physical or sexual violence, while six had been actually physically attacked.

While the surveys found scientists have had mostly positive experiences with the media, the abuse is having a chilling effect.

About 40 per cent of the Australian scientists and 60 per cent of international scientists say the attacks have impacted their willingness to speak to the media in the future.

And in related international news, the odds of republicans retaking the US House of Representatives in the 2022 election cycle have increased dramatically.  

:)
 

What could go wrong?
 

 

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On 10/16/2021 at 11:09 AM, Kate short for Bob said:

 When did he get time to keep his research skills up to date in the last 37 years?

 

This is about the silliest thing you've ever posted.

Do you think experts in any field suddenly stop researching in their chosen field once they reach the higher echelons because they've reached top pay scale and their working hours are too busy?

You've obviously never met anyone with a passion for their subject.

 

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1 hour ago, ShortForBob said:

This is about the silliest thing you've ever posted.

Do you think experts in any field suddenly stop researching in their chosen field once they reach the higher echelons because they've reached top pay scale and their working hours are too busy?

You've obviously never met anyone with a passion for their subject.

 

This. My first wife is a classic example. She's kept up with her field and has been a leading researcher as well as department head and professor. Finally considering retirement but personally I doubt she will, really. She loves what she does.

FKT

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On 10/18/2021 at 6:56 AM, sparau said:

Harry Potter reference ?

This could become serious when they magic themselves into power !

Are they all channelling that interesting fellow in viking fancy dress from the *cough* coup attempt.

 

I am looking forward to when we refer to anti-vaxers as 'the deceased.'

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3 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

What will you call the billion unvaccinated people who have had the disease and recovered?

Asking for a friend.

Fuck I love this place.

I would can them lucky. But an anti-vaxer who dies of the virus I call funny.

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3 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

Damn lot of lucky people in the world.

And now at least 5 million unlucky ones.  But who gives a fuck about someone who refuses to wear a life jacket and drowns?

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1 minute ago, Kate short for Bob said:

Yeah but you don't wear one when on the wheel (tiller)!

I do if conditions require it. Like there is a storm coming. I am sure you can find an 'expert' on google that says Storms don't exist...

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1 hour ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

This. My first wife is a classic example. She's kept up with her field and has been a leading researcher as well as department head and professor. Finally considering retirement but personally I doubt she will, really. She loves what she does.

FKT

My husband had a whole room full of old and uptodate IT related books, filled a skip when he died. 30 years of continual passion for his work. His brother said he felt like he was throwing thousands of $100 bills in the skip. 

KSFB's only passion seems to be googling unpeer reviewed refutations of accepted science. 

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1 hour ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

This. My first wife is a classic example. She's kept up with her field and has been a leading researcher as well as department head and professor. Finally considering retirement but personally I doubt she will, really. She loves what she does.

FKT

Why retire if you love your job?

- DSK

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56 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

Right so there are "conditions" when you wear a life jacket.  Different conditions I guess if you are in the wheel or the bowman.

Not for a competent skipper no.

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1 hour ago, Steam Flyer said:

Why retire if you love your job?

- DSK

Exactly. However in her case, grandma-hood beckons. She'll move from department head to emeritus professor or whatever fancy title they offer and will still research & take PhD students. Just give up all the other stuff and work to her schedule.

I still develop & enhance a couple of software systems for the same reason. But less & less - I'd rather potter about in my boat these days. Got a new main sail under construction ATM.

As for tossing old reference texts, shrug, I've done it. My attitude used to be, if I spent $100 on a book and got one good idea from it, it had paid for itself. I gave 5 crates to a bowerbird friend of mine who's working his way through them scanning them and making pdf versions. Copyright? His problem not mine.

As for KSFB I stuck him/her/it in my ignore list. Time is too precious to waste on people who insist on demonstrating that they're TOTAL fuckwits without even some redeeming (even if inadvertent) humour value.

FKT

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3 hours ago, Raz'r said:

That’s what we name our rescue dogs. Lucky 1, then 2, now 3…

That makes sense.  I called our current Westie by the name of his predecessor enough during his first year that he was a bit confused.  Me too, apparently….  When a dog has trained one well for 16 1/2 years…..

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On 10/13/2021 at 7:05 PM, Steam Flyer said:

Sure, a TV show and one book are going to teach all about "how things work"

You're a special kind of stupid.

Except for being the kind that won't shut the fuck up, that kind of stupid is all too common. You have some additional, special, and powerful, kinds of stupid at work in there, too.

 

KSFB is working very hard to SEEM smart because it believes that seeming is better than actually BEING smart.

- DSK

Millions of malignant narcissists can’t be wrong?  & I could be talking talking about KSFB, but I’m not, so don’t hang that on me! ;) Wringing a transcendent narrative out of a few barely relevant facts is hard work!  I mean, if it sounds good it must BE good, right?  Tapping into folk’s desires is a gift- give ‘em what they want, not what they need!  :lol:  Enter the elephants!

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