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RTC regatta demands vaccinations


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9 hours ago, Meat Wad said:

Worry about yourself.

400,000 at the F1 weekend in The Circuit of the Americas and you guys worry about a piddly ass sailboat race.

 

Oh Chris, it is not Mythology that Natural immunity is better. Why do you think they are giving boosters????

Because the MRNA Vaccines are not as effective as was preached by the Politicians at first.

What do you believe Politics or Medical Science. If I could get natural immunity I would. But I am so healthy, I don't even get the flu. I've been exposed to the virus before my vaccination and never got sick. So I got the vaccine.....WHY...... because I had to because of Politics.

You are ignoring the science. You are ignoring statistics. You are propagating systematic ignorance and killing people. You should hate your own ignorance.

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Something many non-scientists really don't understand well is how scientific explanations are supposed to shift when new data comes in and supports a better explanation. And to what degree the "best" science can be preliminary or an approximation. Particularly in complex and fast moving situations. COVID in early 2020 isn't the same beast as in late 2021. Some of what we know is still as valid for the Delta variant, and luckily the vaccines continue to work well.

What very few people understand well, is how the fact that we can't infect people for test purposes means that we are necessarily relying on "natural experiments". But with millions of cases and billions of doses, eventually even those give pretty solid data.

The third misunderstanding is that only "perfect" and 100% effective solutions are reasonable in a public health setting. Even on a personal level, few know how to correctly estimate their own risks, even given the statistics, because hardly anybody is an expert on statistics and probability, and some of the issues can be subtle. Now apply that to mixed populations.

So people look for simple answers, analogies, anecdotes or whatever. Totally understandable.

Here's a nice anecdote just reported in the local paper: some guy finally beat COVID after a year on the ventilator. I'm happy for him. Now, think about this: how many thousands of vaccine doses could you have paid for with the money required for his treatment?

The timeline suggests he got infected before the vaccine, but you get the point.

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5 hours ago, green03 said:

Here's a nice anecdote just reported in the local paper: some guy finally beat COVID after a year on the ventilator. I'm happy for him. Now, think about this: how many thousands of vaccine doses could you have paid for with the money required for his treatment?

However AFAIK vaccine availability isn't constrained by money. It's constrained by manufacturing capability, which in turns is constrained by the skills to build and especially to run such facilities. So, anyway, I've heard it argued.

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9 hours ago, dogwatch said:

However AFAIK vaccine availability isn't constrained by money. It's constrained by manufacturing capability, which in turns is constrained by the skills to build and especially to run such facilities. So, anyway, I've heard it argued.

Well, not in 1st world countries anyway.

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15 hours ago, Left Shift said:

Well, not in 1st world countries anyway.

Wrong. You evidently haven't followed the bun-fights over vaccine supplies in EU/UK.

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On 10/21/2021 at 5:07 PM, Meat Wad said:

 

You just do not get it. Haven't you been paying attention. The Vaccine is not as effective as the first thought. Natural immunity after recovering from the virus is much more Potent.

You can still get covid and pass it on after being vaccinated, many still get it. That is why they want to keep giving you boosters. I bet the Pharma companies stocks are through the roof. Wall Street loves reoccurring payments. IMHO MRNA vaccines are still experimental and we are all Guinea Pigs. Hell they stopped animal testing in all sorts of industries, but it's still ok to use humans.

If you are an elder or unhealthy person, be wary and wear a mask and stay healthy.

Otherwise lets go have fun and enjoy life while we are young and healthy.

It has been proven, LOCK DOWNS do not work.

Several real, that means scientific, studies have already demonstrated that those who have been infected and not vaccintated are 2.5-5x more likely to become reinfected than those who have been vaccinated and infected. Several already passed peer review and have been published. More that are not yet published but heading for it. All studies conducted by various groups of researchers. Constructed with similar, but not identical, sound methods and ALL with similar results.

That is what is called a "body of evidence" Maybe try googling the term first. It is the opposite of getting your 'news' and 'science' from fox and other extemist type political commentators, or even any news source at all. News is about headlines to get you to read the article and see their advertisements. Same for video news, sensationalized to hold your attention so they can show you advertisements.

 

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57 minutes ago, Baldur said:

News is about headlines to get you to read the article and see their advertisements. Same for video news, sensationalized to hold your attention so they can show you advertisements.

 

"All we have to sell is fear itself."

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I understand the reasons why some demand vaccine compliance but find it worrisome that adherence to and obedience of such demands is so blindly unquestioned: will annual flu shots become mandatory?

And now that the standard of "it's in the public interest" is set, what about fatty foods? Cigarettes? Alcohol? Here's a cut n paste:

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An estimated 95,000 people (approximately 68,000 men and 27,000 women) die from alcohol-related causes annually,15 making alcohol the third-leading preventable cause of death in the United States.Jun 1, 2021
Includes causes of death: Alcoholism
 

Alcohol Facts and Statistics

 
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Personally I'd be willing to get rid of fatty foods, cigarettes & alcohol, but I'd be unwilling to demand compliance from others even though I know they'd be unlikely to return the favor. Homey don't play that game.
 
 
 
 
 
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When they eat shitty food can YOU die from it?   Fucking dumb comparison.   At least cigarette smokers didn't try to overthrow the government when they were told they couldn't do such inside anymore.

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On 10/25/2021 at 11:05 AM, Meat Wad said:

Worry about yourself.

400,000 at the F1 weekend in The Circuit of the Americas and you guys worry about a piddly ass sailboat race.

As far as I can tell, you're the only one worried about this "piddly ass sailboat race". The others here (who, unlike you, may actually attend) are happy to comply with the RTC RC decision.

At least one boat I've raced on in RTC also forbids cigarette smoking on board.

As with the entire regatta: it's their show, their rules. If you don't agree, don't play. Nobody's forcing anything on anyone here.

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2 hours ago, Parma said:

I understand the reasons why some demand vaccine compliance but find it worrisome that adherence to and obedience of such demands is so blindly unquestioned: will annual flu shots become mandatory?

And now that the standard of "it's in the public interest" is set, what about fatty foods? Cigarettes? Alcohol? Here's a cut n paste:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

An estimated 95,000 people (approximately 68,000 men and 27,000 women) die from alcohol-related causes annually,15 making alcohol the third-leading preventable cause of death in the United States.Jun 1, 2021
Includes causes of death: Alcoholism
 

Alcohol Facts and Statistics

 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Personally I'd be willing to get rid of fatty foods, cigarettes & alcohol, but I'd be unwilling to demand compliance from others even though I know they'd be unlikely to return the favor. Homey don't play that game.
 
 
 
 
 

These are really "Turds of wisdumb."

You really shouldn't post stuff as ill-thought out and badly argued as this.  It reflects poorly on your parents.

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21 hours ago, Danceswithoctopus said:

As far as I can tell, you're the only one worried about this "piddly ass sailboat race". The others here (who, unlike you, may actually attend) are happy to comply with the RTC RC decision.

At least one boat I've raced on in RTC also forbids cigarette smoking on board.

As with the entire regatta: it's their show, their rules. If you don't agree, don't play. Nobody's forcing anything on anyone here.

"At least one"?   Is there a boat out there that still let's crew puff away?  That somewhat amazes me.

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5 minutes ago, Left Shift said:

"At least one"?   Is there a boat out there that still let's crew puff away?  That somewhat amazes me.

I don't know about "puff away", but there are arguably some advantages to having a lit cigarette (or punk, as I've seen in some cases) in light airs.

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15 minutes ago, Danceswithoctopus said:

I don't know about "puff away", but there are arguably some advantages to having a lit cigarette (or punk, as I've seen in some cases) in light airs.

Done that.  Punks are better as they can live in the chart table.  Or strips of toilet paper.  Too bad nobody has 8-track tapes anymore.  We used to vote on and then sacrifice the worst tape on board for telltales when it got super light.

But when it gets that light, we invoke the triple 0s rule.  If we see 000 on the knot meter three separate times, we are no longer "racing", and the key gets turned and we head for the bar.

 

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1 minute ago, Left Shift said:

Done that.  Punks are better as they can live in the chart table.  Or strips of toilet paper.  Too bad nobody has 8-track tapes anymore.  We used to vote on and then sacrifice the worst tape on board for telltales when it got super light.

But when it gets that light, we invoke the triple 0s rule.  If we see 000 on the knot meter three separate times, we are no longer "racing", and the key gets turned and we head for the bar.

 

Old VHS tapes work pretty well. So do old cassettes. Goodwill has them cheap.

For the record, I'm in no way advocating for smokers on board, nor for smoking.

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On 11/4/2021 at 1:30 PM, Left Shift said:

"At least one"?   Is there a boat out there that still let's crew puff away?  That somewhat amazes me.

There are a few. Not many, but a couple.

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Well, It didn't put much of a dent in the turn out. 109 boats registered (don't know how many started) Good Easterly breeze for them and last few boats trickling in to Roche right now. 

Tomorrow has the potential to make some sailmakers happy.

 

WL

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109 boats registered and all but 3 or 4 showed up. A couple of OCS in the scoring. and a few DNF's. 

Link. RTC Race Results (roundthecounty.com)

 

 

Today has the potential for some carnage. Might have to go down and see who's got the nerve to pop the chute in Rosario Strait if it's honkin'

PZZ133-142215-
 Northern Inland Waters Including The San Juan Islands-
 505 AM PST Sun Nov 14 2021
 
 ...GALE WARNING IN EFFECT THROUGH MONDAY AFTERNOON...
 
 .TODAY...S wind 15 to 25 kt rising to 20 to 30 kt in the
 afternoon. Wind waves 2 to 4 ft. A chance of rain in the morning
 WLthen rain in the afternoon.  
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On 10/17/2021 at 11:40 PM, Raz'r said:

That there folks, is the stupidity that has taken over America.

OK, Here is the CDC numbers from the State of Vermont today, the most vaccinated state in the country.  
Covid is out of control there. Looks like the more they vaccinate the more the cases go up. Hmmm.

91.5% of Vermoters over 12 are vaccinated.

Ski season has not started so you cannot blame it on the tourist.

Maybe they should start vaccinating the cows there?

https://www.healthvermont.gov/covid-19/vaccine/covid-19-vaccine-dashboard

 

 

 

us-state-trends (4).png

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And your fellow crew and sailors on the other boats.  It is all about being a responsible human being.  WTF, it ain't rocket fucking science.  Watching the RTC boats go by in front of my house, I wish them all well and thank them for being responsible and being vaccinated before coming to our Islands of paradise.

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Well, It was a delightful RTC race as usual, this year.  Except for the rain and occasional lack of wind and frequent anti-water.  But that stuff doesn't really count.

The race committee did a great job of communicating, the sailors were respectful of the rules, masks were worn where required and appropriate, friends were encountered, lies told, trophies won, a Saturday race where the little guys crushed the big guys and a Sunday race where the big guys crushed the little guys.

Dang, bunch of sailors followed some clear, simple rules and and had a great time enjoying the freedom of being out on the racecourse.

OIYC YAY!

2007497541_ScreenShot2021-11-12at11_43_28AM.png

(This is, regrettably, not a picture from this year, 

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This regatta has to be on my bucket list. Maybe instead of coming straight back after Hawaii, I bring the boat back into the Sound for the rest of next summer...  Hmmm. Then maybe truck it home from Seattle to avoid the NW coast.

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21 hours ago, woodpecker said:

OK, Here is the CDC numbers from the State of Vermont today, the most vaccinated state in the country.  
Covid is out of control there. Looks like the more they vaccinate the more the cases go up. Hmmm.

91.5% of Vermoters over 12 are vaccinated.

Ski season has not started so you cannot blame it on the tourist.

Maybe they should start vaccinating the cows there?

https://www.healthvermont.gov/covid-19/vaccine/covid-19-vaccine-dashboard

 

 

 

us-state-trends (4).png

Vermont currently has a 4.3% positivity rate. Under 5% is considered low. Its certainly not "out of control" like you say. https://www.healthvermont.gov/covid-19/current-activity/case-dashboard

Also, Vermont's "covid death rate" per 100K people is the lowest in the country at 63. Mississippi for comparison,  is the worst at 342.  

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8 minutes ago, Squalamax said:

Vermont currently has a 4.3% positivity rate. Under 5% is considered low. Its certainly not "out of control" like you say. https://www.healthvermont.gov/covid-19/current-activity/case-dashboard

Also, Vermont's "covid death rate" per 100K people is the lowest in the country at 63. Mississippi for comparison,  is the worst at 342.  


Still with 92% vaccination you would think the rate would be falling rapidly not rising rapidly as it clearly is? Why are they rising? I thought Vaccine prevented spread not increased it?

Here is Mississippi that you mentioned. One of the lowest Vacc rates of any state. Their number are going down not up. 


 

us-state-trends (6).png

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1 hour ago, Raz'r said:

This regatta has to be on my bucket list. Maybe instead of coming straight back after Hawaii, I bring the boat back into the Sound for the rest of next summer...  Hmmm. Then maybe truck it home from Seattle to avoid the NW coast.

If you do the RTC in November, you will not want to sail south on a delivery until May.  It get lumpy out there:, but also cold.french-bark-colonel-de-villebois-mareuil-passing-over-the-bar-of-the-columbia-river-ca-1900.thumb.jpg.213994aac8b10ad366fddb51a354f649.jpg

AKA "The Graveyard of the Pacific  https://www.historylink.org/File/7936

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15 minutes ago, woodpecker said:


Still with 92% vaccination you would think the rate would be falling rapidly not rising rapidly as it clearly is? Why are they rising? I thought Vaccine prevented spread not increased it?

Here is Mississippi that you mentioned. One of the lowest Vacc rates of any state. Their number are going down not up. 


 

us-state-trends (6).png

Umm, two days totally different visuals. Vermont was cumulative cases. It will always go up. Daily cases is completely different.

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22 hours ago, woodpecker said:

OK, Here is the CDC numbers from the State of Vermont today, the most vaccinated state in the country.  
Covid is out of control there. Looks like the more they vaccinate the more the cases go up. Hmmm.

91.5% of Vermoters over 12 are vaccinated.

Ski season has not started so you cannot blame it on the tourist.

Maybe they should start vaccinating the cows there?

https://www.healthvermont.gov/covid-19/vaccine/covid-19-vaccine-dashboard

 

 

 

us-state-trends (4).png

You realize that is "cumulative cases" right? That number will NEVER go down. 

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Just now, Left Shift said:

If you do the RTC in November, you will not want to sail south on a delivery until May.  It get lumpy out there:, but also cold.french-bark-colonel-de-villebois-mareuil-passing-over-the-bar-of-the-columbia-river-ca-1900.thumb.jpg.213994aac8b10ad366fddb51a354f649.jpg

AKA "The Graveyard of the Pacific  https://www.historylink.org/File/7936

Oh, yeah, I would say the coast would be closed, for me, till mid-summer. Hence the idea of trucking it.

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15 minutes ago, Irish River said:

The vaccines are not about spreading at this point in the endemic. It is about keeping people alive and out of if hospitals.  

Clearly the vaccines are not helping Vermont, hospital admission are going up. 92% vaccinated.

Mississippi are going down. 62% vaccinated.

 

us-state-trends (7).png

us-state-trends (8).png

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9 minutes ago, woodpecker said:

Clearly the vaccines are not helping Vermont, hospital admission are going up. 92% vaccinated.

 

 

You're wrong of course.  

Quote

About 467,130 people have been fully vaccinated in Vermont. The breakthrough cases represent a small portion, about 1.3%, 1.3% of the fully vaccinated population.     https://www.healthvermont.gov/sites/default/files/documents/pdf/COVID19-Weekly-Data-Summary-11-5-2021.pdf

And you might want to pick a different state to cherry pick percentages.  52 hospitalized COVID pts in the whole state?  Whoa!  Shit is out of control!  How will they deal with that.  In my unvaccinated red state small hospital we had more than that just on my floor.  

 
Quote

 

 
Currently Hospitalized   52
 
Hospitalized In ICU    11
 
Hospitalized Under Investigation    2

 

 
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9 minutes ago, Clove Hitch said:

You're wrong of course.  

And you might want to pick a different state to cherry pick percentages.  52 hospitalized COVID pts in the whole state?  Whoa!  Shit is out of control!  How will they deal with that.  In my unvaccinated red state small hospital we had more than that just on my floor.  

 
 

The issue is that most of the people who have serious covid problems are shipped to Boston as there are very few beds to begin with in Vermont. They are counted in the Massachusetts numbers. If they die in Mass they are in the mass numbers.

The point is that the numbers of sick and infected should be falling as the Vac rate goes up. The opposite is happening, you cannot deny that.

The numbers of infected and sick are going down in Mississippi. You cannot deny that either.

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9 minutes ago, woodpecker said:

The issue is that most of the people who have serious covid problems are shipped to Boston as there are very few beds to begin with in Vermont. They are counted in the Massachusetts numbers. If they die in Mass they are in the mass numbers.

The point is that the numbers of sick and infected should be falling as the Vac rate goes up. The opposite is happening, you cannot deny that.

The numbers of infected and sick are going down in Mississippi. You cannot deny that either.

1.3% of vaccinated Vermonters get a break through infection and you think that demonstrates that the vaccines are ineffective?

Also, you are wrong about cases going down in Mississippi.  Using the same metric you did earlier, the cases are "sky-rocketing."

 

sky rocketing.png

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1 hour ago, woodpecker said:

Clearly the vaccines are not helping Vermont, hospital admission are going up. 92% vaccinated.

Mississippi are going down. 62% vaccinated.

 

us-state-trends (7).png

us-state-trends (8).png

Thinks look significantly different if both graphs use the same scale on the y-axis.

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What?!? No violent clashes between the masked and anti-maskers in Roche? Not even a water balloon fight (oh yeah, not WIRW)? Just two days of sailing around the San Juan Islands? The world didn't end because OIYC and the RTC RC imposed a mask mandate on participants?

Imagine!

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13 minutes ago, Danceswithoctopus said:

What?!? No violent clashes between the masked and anti-maskers in Roche? Not even a water balloon fight (oh yeah, not WIRW)? Just two days of sailing around the San Juan Islands? The world didn't end because OIYC and the RTC RC imposed a mask mandate on participants?

Imagine!

Well, it did rain.  So maybe that was god's judgement. 

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3 hours ago, Expat Canuck said:

Thinks look significantly different if both graphs use the same scale on the y-axis.

Helps to visualize that all of the Vermont ups and downs occur in the bottom band of the Mississippi graph.

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10 minutes ago, view at the front said:

Why is nobody actually talking about the race, rather than pissing about vaccinations/non-vaccinations. . . in spite of the Thread Title?

Typical RTC, meaning that every race is different. 

Saturday was a very good day to go to school on the big boats, and play the low road in Boundary Pass and the Stuart Island shore up to Turn Point.

Sunday was a very good day to have a ride on a TP52 or SC70. 

That is evident from the results.    

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1 hour ago, Left Shift said:

Typical RTC, meaning that every race is different. 

Saturday was a very good day to go to school on the big boats, and play the low road in Boundary Pass and the Stuart Island shore up to Turn Point.

Sunday was a very good day to have a ride on a TP52 or SC70. 

That is evident from the results.    

Great battle between the two bieker 40ers for the ORC win. 

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15 hours ago, MPH said:

Great battle between the two bieker 40ers for the ORC win. 

Great day for the Bieker boats in general, with Terremoto getting 1st overall in PHRF. 

(Of course, Terremoto is essentially unratable in any one number rating system.  But they still get everything out of that boat.)

And Westerly came down from Canada to show what waterline can do on a reach.  

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Quote

Looks like the more they vaccinate the more the cases go up.

Only when imbeciles read what they want to see.   And just to clarify, getting a vaccine doesn't stop you from getting COVID, but likely keeps you out of the hospital.

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20 hours ago, Left Shift said:

Well, it did rain.  So maybe that was god's judgement. 

Well, since you get rain more often than not for this race, not likely that it was Gods judgement.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Baldur said:

Well, since you get rain more often than not for this race, not likely that it was Gods judgement.

 

 

Well, this year the rain could be described as biblical.  A true deluge certainly landed on us coming up Rosario to the finish.

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8 minutes ago, Left Shift said:

Well, this year the rain could be described as biblical.  A true deluge certainly landed on us coming up Rosario to the finish.

Finest time. I mean, it could have hit around Lime Kiln and stayed with you the rest of the way.

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We raced.  It was fun.  Saturday was funner.  The Saturday start was wild.  Very little wind, downwind start, strong current push, everyone starting on starboard, and everyone wanting to go right after the start made for a very crowded start line at the boat.  And a boat that shall go unnamed managed to hit the committee boat thanks to the current.  In the little boat start a number of boats were over early.  It took one competitive boat 45 minutes to get back to the start line.  By our start, the 3rd start, I think we'd learned our lesson that being over early was a really bad idea.  

Our claim to fame was that we were ahead of Terramoto on corrected time at the halfway point both days.  They crushed the second half of each day.  We thought we had a good shot at the overall at the halfway point on Sunday and then Terramoto proceeded to put 30 minutes into us while in our little OD fleet of 4 boats we extended our lead, so I don't think we sailed the second half badly.  

Too bad we didn't have the 25-30 from behind in Rosario like the forecast said the day before.  The blow ended up coming through before the start.  

Great weekend for some yachting.  

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We've done RTC since it started, it was magnificent, and one of our favorites races. . . apparently some of us have gotten older.

This year we turned the boat over to the kids, who finished 2nd in their division and 10th overall. . . I guess that they were listening!  Good on them!

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On 11/15/2021 at 2:57 PM, woodpecker said:


Still with 92% vaccination you would think the rate would be falling rapidly not rising rapidly as it clearly is? Why are they rising? I thought Vaccine prevented spread not increased it?

Here is Mississippi that you mentioned. One of the lowest Vacc rates of any state. Their number are going down not up. 


 

us-state-trends (6).png

You're not looking at all the data. 92% is people ages 12+ who have received ONE dose. The fully vaccinated number is at least 10 points lower and that still doesn't account for the 0-11 age group. Vermonts recent surge could be in the younger age group and not fully vaccinated.

As I'm sure you know this virus infects in waves. MS is in a downward trend right now. VT is in an upward trend. But, Vermont's worse day is still multiples better than Mississippi's best day.(even accounting for population differences) Then there's the death rate per capita which as listed above is not in the same league. 

 

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10 hours ago, Squalamax said:

You're not looking at all the data. 92% is people ages 12+ who have received ONE dose. The fully vaccinated number is at least 10 points lower and that still doesn't account for the 0-11 age group. Vermonts recent surge could be in the younger age group and not fully vaccinated.

As I'm sure you know this virus infects in waves. MS is in a downward trend right now. VT is in an upward trend. But, Vermont's worse day is still multiples better than Mississippi's best day.(even accounting for population differences) Then there's the death rate per capita which as listed above is not in the same league. 

 

NPR had a report that some of the red states infection rates are going down because so many people have already died in those states compared to the more vaccinated states that they are hitting an equilibrium something akin to heard immunity.  It took A LOT of death to get there, not counting the LONG haul effects for those you manage to survive it.

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10 hours ago, MauiPunter said:

.... for those you manage to survive it.

Yes, It was an interesting weekend for a sailboat race.  Beautiful location, half-hidden by rain and mist.  Nice people.  We sailed safe.

 

Mist 1.jpg

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On 11/15/2021 at 3:52 PM, woodpecker said:

The issue is that most of the people who have serious covid problems are shipped to Boston as there are very few beds to begin with in Vermont. They are counted in the Massachusetts numbers. If they die in Mass they are in the mass numbers.

The point is that the numbers of sick and infected should be falling as the Vac rate goes up. The opposite is happening, you cannot deny that.

The numbers of infected and sick are going down in Mississippi. You cannot deny that either.

Bullshit. The UVM Medical Center in Burlington is a 600 bed, level-one trauma center (that includes a Covid monoclonal antibody unit and their own fleet of critical-care transport helicopters) that actually brings IN patients from the entire state AND much of eastern upstate New York.  As of today there are 13 patients total in the ICU units across all 18 hospitals in Vermont.

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2 hours ago, ridgerunner said:

Bullshit. The UVM Medical Center in Burlington is a 600 bed, level-one trauma center (that includes a Covid monoclonal antibody unit and their own fleet of critical-care transport helicopters) that actually brings IN patients from the entire state AND much of eastern upstate New York.  As of today there are 13 patients total in the ICU units across all 18 hospitals in Vermont.

Get a fuckin' room you two.

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