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Skeltic (Keltic Marine) Help


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Team!

So I have been boatless for about 5 months (sold them all when I left VA for TX) and I just couldn’t take it any more!  
 

Picked up a cool little winter project that I am going to restore and bring back to all its dinghy glory!  Problem is I can’t find anything on the nets about it.  All I have to go on is it says Skeltic on the sail, Kelt on the transom and Keltic Marine on the bow.  I assume it’s French but I could be wrong.  
 

I have a attached a pic of a rigged one.  I will rig mine this weekend to see what I am missing.  So far it looks like it’s mostly there but it’s missing the stainless eye on the bow for the forestay.  I think I can fab it up pretty easy it’s a neat little setup.  
 

Anyone have one or know info on it?  I am thinking about a full resto if it sails well.  I want to use this to learn how to paint/gelcoat a boat not just patches like I did on my other boats.
 

 

D4ED4BF7-9224-4D66-BAA3-01273B2249F0.jpeg

95663930-CCA0-4B97-9315-0AE10F78DBDF.jpeg

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10 hours ago, fastyacht said:

Designed late 80s? (I was infatuated with windsurfer rad cam stuff at the time ad designed a wishbone boom full roach thing a lot like that at the time.)  This will be great to see back in action.

I remember seeing these on the beach, in France, back in the 80’s. My recollection is that it was Keltic’s response to Beneteau’s wizz https://www.beneteau.com/en/sailing-yacht-1965-1981/wizz or maybe I got it wrong and they came the other way around. 

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So upon further inspection it looks like I have all the important parts of the hardware.  So now time to over analyze … enjoy …
 

F4B0FDA6-4613-4C34-9254-E371803EE22E.jpeg.230b3a8cb575f257d67ee1f783147f29.jpeg

1) Looks like the red/green wires are the shrouds.  The mast only has 2 eyes I think one is for a down haul and one mid way up is for shrouds/jib.  Question on a dinghy of this size (4.45m) do I put them all in one shackle?  Any special type I should use? 

2) looks like it has a trap setup.  I have a harness somewhere from an old Hobie I thing but anyone know how that setup is supposed to work?  
 

EE1938AA-A8CC-4283-A663-9E6A410474BA.jpeg.447be13da0251619943c938dfdee5fa6.jpeg

3) this is the jib tack with the forestay threw the jib. The shrouds are fixed with no adjustments so do I need adjustments here or is it just used to tighten everything up?  I want to do a full dynema setup but I might just do the shrouds. 
 

4) this got me thinking with no roller furler and no reefing setup not much I can do to de-power… I guess I need 2 sets of sails and small top tube for the mast so I can have normal and “oh shit it’s windy”?  Should I put a small furler on it?  
 

B4675D90-A4B5-4C0F-A5DE-42A35AFC7E27.jpeg.4f205ea68cbe8bca255f1d844ff23a19.jpegBDC3C373-11D6-4107-A8AA-969F50443137.jpeg.a99c49779495312dbcbc7f88a97c043d.jpeg

5) Found the forestay eye (I think that is what you call it)!!!  While we are at the bow this thing is going to need a kite!  Any ideas on a bow sprit?  I am thinking an aluminum hing thingi similar to my old Corsair F241 but then there would need to be stays for it so I don’t think that would work…. Might be a bridge to far..

8ED7B097-7B5C-4BFF-B562-17D7AB14F103.jpeg.95825b1b7e918f28cf2b880976538c24.jpeg

6) last set of questions bottom hole is the mast pocket.  Top one not sure of.  I assume that’s where a block/cam goes for the main sheet but whats the hole for?  
 

All and all I am super stoked just want to find sails for it as there are no local sail makers here in SATX (I assume).  Anyone have recommendations for dinghy sailmaker that I could send them too to copy?  Or how to search for France’s best dinghy supply website (gotta be a few of those there). 

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7 hours ago, bourdidn said:

I can translate what I can read if needed. 

Thanks I will try translation tools if not I might reach out for help.  That will give me an excuse to learn something.

 I do have a question the name of the boat is “Heibine” does that mean anything? 

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Hi Defy,

Actually found the links when searching for info about the BIC 410 hull, I was given for free a few years ago. Used parts from my stash to build it up to a singlehander: 8.5sqm cut down main from a Blaze, windsurfer boom and mast from a Flipper Dinghy.

blaze4.jpg

bicland.JPG

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13 hours ago, Defy said:

Thanks I will try translation tools if not I might reach out for help.  That will give me an excuse to learn something.

 I do have a question the name of the boat is “Heibine” does that mean anything? 

Absolutely no idea.... It is not a French word. It may be a noun, or a contraction of two first name like Heidi + Sabine.

 

Note in passing how a even a European recreational fun boat had a trapeze while North Americans seem terrified about it, castrated a perfectly good design like the 420 to turn it into the C420 monstrosity, and sail mostly trapeze-less boats. Why is it so?

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37 minutes ago, bourdidn said:

Note in passing how a even a European recreational fun boat had a trapeze while North Americans seem terrified about it, castrated a perfectly good design like the 420 to turn it into the C420 monstrosity, and sail mostly trapeze-less boats. Why is it so?

Trapeseless is college and high school saili g.  Jinior c420 all spon amd trapese

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51 minutes ago, bourdidn said:

Absolutely no idea.... It is not a French word. It may be a noun, or a contraction of two first name like Heidi + Sabine.

 

Note in passing how a even a European recreational fun boat had a trapeze while North Americans seem terrified about it, castrated a perfectly good design like the 420 to turn it into the C420 monstrosity, and sail mostly trapeze-less boats. Why is it so?

Thanks!  Yeah I want to figure out how this trap system works as it different than my old Hobie setup.

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5 hours ago, fastyacht said:

I think that tail goes to the bungee and the ball acts as a stop. That pits the oblong ring standing oit for easy clip in

I’ll rig it this weekend to see what it looks like and to see if I can figure it out.

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14 hours ago, revintage said:

Hi Defy,

Actually found the links when searching for info about the BIC 410 hull, I was given for free a few years ago. Used parts from my stash to build it up to a singlehander: 8.5sqm cut down main from a Blaze, windsurfer boom and mast from a Flipper Dinghy.

blaze4.jpg

bicland.JPG

How did that sail?  I am curious about this boom setup.  I am not a racer but I do like to play with sail trim and I am not sure how it will work with this.  I do hope it’s quasi fast, coming from a Corsair F24 I do love speed!  

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I have no idea on how fast it is. As I come from Tornado catamaran background, anything else, except foilers, feels slow. But it feels nice. With the original dated sails you have, I guess you wish for more, though ;-) .

 

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13 minutes ago, revintage said:

I have no idea on how fast it is. As I come from Tornado catamaran background, anything else, except foilers, feels slow. But it feels nice. With the original dated sails you have, I guess you wish for more, though ;-) .

 

Yeah we’ll see if I really get time to sail again I am buying a newer Corsair 24.  It’s so nice to walk out to an ama when you need to “hike out”. My knees/aren’t what they were 20 years ago.  
 

This will be just a toy to play with.  Still need to find someone to send the sails to that I can trust won’t lose mine when making a template.  

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8 minutes ago, Dex Sawash said:
4 hours ago, Defy said:

This will be just a toy to play with.  Still need to find someone to send the sails to that I can trust won’t lose mine when making a template.  

Schurr Sails in Pensacola

^ seconded ^

Schurr does good work

FB- Doug

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On 10/23/2021 at 2:33 PM, Defy said:

Yeah we’ll see if I really get time to sail again I am buying a newer Corsair 24.  It’s so nice to walk out to an ama when you need to “hike out”. My knees/aren’t what they were 20 years ago.  
 

This will be just a toy to play with.  Still need to find someone to send the sails to that I can trust won’t lose mine when making a template.  

https://reallysimplesails.com/

You could design what you want with this company.  I've like working with them for one off sails and their experience seems to be broad.

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What are your thoughts on finding a more modern sail setup form a different boat…. 
 

mast is 19ft and I have room for about 8 foot boom.  So maybe a sail with a 16 luff and 7 foot?  
 

 

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14 hours ago, Defy said:

What are your thoughts on finding a more modern sail setup form a different boat…. 
 

mast is 19ft and I have room for about 8 foot boom.  So maybe a sail with a 16 luff and 7 foot?  
 

Will spend some time looking over the details from what you and others have posted. Would help to see a video of the boat rigged, even more so if someone can find an archive of the boat sailing.  Unlikely, but you never know what you can find out there.  Picture of how the mast is stepped, stayed, etc, would also help.

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Having looked over the forum voile page, the change of the rig is going to take some work whereas getting a sail built to replace the old one, especially if you have old copies you can send to a sail maker, is much faster/simpler/cheaper.  The wishbone rig which seems like a sailboard rig, will be stiffer than any sailboard rig, no chance of a swap out.  Also that rig was made to give, providing the boat an auto depower method, put in a stiff rig and the boat will become unbalanced, difficult to sail.  If you were to swap out the rig, you first need to determine the CoE of the boat and then go looking for an existing rig, something skiff like.

Put the boat together, that will give you an idea of how the boat is set up and what might work.  You might find that the boat is powered up enough that changing the rig doesn't make sense and that getting new sails and updating the rigging to simplify and take advantage of modern materials to reduce complexity and weight, and reduce the time it take to rig/derig that boat, is all it needs.  That and some time with a buffer.

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On 10/26/2021 at 6:37 AM, revintage said:

Hi Defy,

We are waiting for images of your rigged Skeltic;).

Yes yes, if the traffic wasn’t sole sucking and I got home before 630 everyday I would have time to do it during the week.  I’ll try Saturday.

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Alright team new plan for now.  We are going to add some sail tape, gel coat touch ups and a good wax.  Then we are just going to send it for this season.  Not sure if I like this rigging setup.  
 

Ok so on to the pics FC417885-EC9B-4701-B6C2-6A5154EAAE98.thumb.jpeg.c98b10ba5ae9111edf72baca94c08495.jpeg

1) I thinking I am missing something that connects the front of the boom to the mast.  I have a old wind surfer and there is another plate thing that clamps it to the mast… any ideas?  I need to find the box that has the windsurfing stuff to see if I can make something work.

3A29377B-23F6-47BD-A1CC-D8F495FE9CCC.jpeg.d703dceb2e66b4967087edb33ae239cc.jpeg

2) said board with kiddos doing there best 90s impression

B3E3CD87-18C3-42D9-91A1-F24D53D4CB7C.thumb.jpeg.6b4d2614f086e6fbc862bc2fec6fa558.jpeg

3) dagger is huge for this boat, it’s bigger than my centerboard on my f24.

2E5694E5-B35F-49E5-9DA4-6C0A2B9DE79F.thumb.jpeg.1fd53a351c3d44499650229933b36374.jpegC954570E-A44D-40D6-BEE5-2DA9D2E75BD4.thumb.jpeg.3c9dd5d7907ad389a4f6f98042ccc4d8.jpeg
 

4) gave up on trying to rotate them.  To note here.  The shrouds have different shackles so I need to fix that cause one is about an 1 inch longer.  Forgot to put the battens in.  Needs sail tape for some of the tears.  Also need to figure out how to connect main sheet to the other side of the boom.

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11 minutes ago, Defy said:

Alright team new plan for now.  We are going to add some sail tape, gel coat touch ups and a good wax.  Then we are just going to send it for this season.  Not sure if I like this rigging setup.  
 

Ok so on to the pics FC417885-EC9B-4701-B6C2-6A5154EAAE98.thumb.jpeg.c98b10ba5ae9111edf72baca94c08495.jpeg

1) I thinking I am missing something that connects the front of the boom to the mast.  I have a old wind surfer and there is another plate thing that clamps it to the mast… any ideas?  I need to find the box that has the windsurfing stuff to see if I can make something work.

3A29377B-23F6-47BD-A1CC-D8F495FE9CCC.jpeg.d703dceb2e66b4967087edb33ae239cc.jpeg

2) said board with kiddos doing there best 90s impression

B3E3CD87-18C3-42D9-91A1-F24D53D4CB7C.thumb.jpeg.6b4d2614f086e6fbc862bc2fec6fa558.jpeg

3) dagger is huge for this boat, it’s bigger than my centerboard on my f24.

2E5694E5-B35F-49E5-9DA4-6C0A2B9DE79F.thumb.jpeg.1fd53a351c3d44499650229933b36374.jpegC954570E-A44D-40D6-BEE5-2DA9D2E75BD4.thumb.jpeg.3c9dd5d7907ad389a4f6f98042ccc4d8.jpeg
 

4) gave up on trying to rotate them.  To note here.  The shrouds have different shackles so I need to fix that cause one is about an 1 inch longer.  Forgot to put the battens in.  Needs sail tape for some of the tears.  Also need to figure out how to connect main sheet to the other side of the boom.

Looking at your wishbone, I would assume that you simply thread a line through one of the hole, around the mast, the second hole, around the mast then use the cleat looking V notch on the wishbone. That or make a loop with a diamond knot around the mast short enough that you can tit it though th V when the wishbone is parallel to the mast, and it gets tentions ce when the wishbone is perpendicular to the mast. Like very old windsurfs. Do I make sense?

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5 minutes ago, bourdidn said:

Looking at your wishbone, I would assume that you simply thread a line through one of the hole, around the mast, the second hole, around the mast then use the cleat looking V notch on the wishbone. That or make a loop with a diamond knot around the mast short enough that you can tit it though th V when the wishbone is parallel to the mast, and it gets tentions ce when the wishbone is perpendicular to the mast. Like very old windsurfs. Do I make sense?

I’ll search old windsurfers setup. 

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Personally I would do as Bourdidn suggests. If looking at the instructions, this is probably correct. But it might show the line should be 3 turns around the mast. To bad the resolution is so low.

image.png.84d478460452346bcffcd9e3500a44bd.png

 

wish.png

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On 10/21/2021 at 12:25 AM, Defy said:

4) this got me thinking with no roller furler and no reefing setup not much I can do to de-power… I guess I need 2 sets of sails and small top tube for the mast so I can have normal and “oh shit it’s windy”?  Should I put a small furler on it?  

It does not look like you will need a smaller rig. Just learn how to depower with downhaul and outhaul.

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11 hours ago, Ncik said:

It does not look like you will need a smaller rig. Just learn how to depower with downhaul and outhaul.

Or use the trapeze... My recollection is that neither the wizz not the skeltic were particularly overpowered anyway...

Edited by bourdidn
typos
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On 10/31/2021 at 10:41 AM, revintage said:

Personally I would do as Bourdidn suggests. If looking at the instructions, this is probably correct. But it might show the line should be 3 turns around the mast. To bad the resolution is so low.

image.png.84d478460452346bcffcd9e3500a44bd.png

 

wish.png

Do I do this before easing the mast? 

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On 10/20/2021 at 4:25 PM, Defy said:

4) this got me thinking with no roller furler and no reefing setup not much I can do to de-power… I guess I need 2 sets of sails and small top tube for the mast so I can have normal and “oh shit it’s windy”?  Should I put a small furler on it?  

Ncik is right! Did a simple calculation and the Skeltic has a higher design wind than 470 and 29er, but lower than a 420. So no reason for two set of sails or a furler. If you absolutely want less SA, just wind the jib around the forestay before you go out. As balance will be affected, also angle the daggerboard rearwards to keep the CoE and CLR relationship.

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