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I must admit I would have waited until there is real evidence that there likely to be an entry.

When two US challengers were mooted I suggested that that by splitting resources that way they might end up with none. I'm not convinced I was wrong 

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fuck you very much

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" Well according to rumors emanating from close to the club they will take no part in AC37  "

I could not agree more. The Format, the Boats and the Costs are just stupid. I do like foiling but it limits the field to a very select few. With a world of about 6.5 billion people there should be more competition.

The AC Show is a failure. If you want to bring viewers in, use Boats, Race Format and costs that everyone can relate to.

Everyone can relate to car racing, from go carts to F1 because we all jump behind the wheel almost everyday. A lot of people have sailed boats and might watch if the boats were relatable and they actually had to change sails during the race. Instead if they change the jib, it takes 20 minutes between races. BORING

As a sailor I can relate to the AC Shit Show. But it becomes relatively boring very quickly, much like watching the final race of SailGP with only 3 boats out there for a wiener take all.
 

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Not convinced. The AC has generally been a design race amongst a few. The events where there were lots of boats are in the minority. And it is a design race so the boats should be fast, exciting and special.

I don't think the difference between the AC75s and everyday sailing boats is any more than that between F1 and road cars. And I can see many more foilers coming on to the market which will shrink the gap even more.

Bigger problem if GD doesn't get the money together, but if the NYYC, or even all of US decides not to play that is not the end of the world. Lets face it, all the worlds truly big team sporting events manage to survive with zero or minor interest from the US.

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3 hours ago, enigmatically2 said:

I must admit I would have waited until there is real evidence that there likely to be an entry.

When two US challengers were mooted I suggested that that by splitting resources that way they might end up with none. I'm not convinced I was wrong 

There is clear evidence that American Magic will challenge highly likely through a Yacht Club in the Florida Panhandle (Pensacola).

Hutchinson has retained AM's Financial Backers Hap Fauth & Doug DeVos.

Thanks @Admiral Hornblower:) This Thread was loooong overdue!

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5 minutes ago, dg_sailingfan said:

There is clear evidence that American Magic will challenge highly likely through a Yacht Club in the Florida Panhandle (Pensacola).

Hutchinson has retained AM's Financial Backers Hap Fauth & Dick DeVos.

Thanks @Admiral Hornblower:) This Thread was loooong overdue!

While it sounds like their design team is going to be pretty much overhauled with most of them jumping to Alinghy, if the rumors are true that TH has lined up Slingsby, Goodie and Campbell - that's a decent threesome to put on the starting line.  (their starts cannot be any worse than AC36)

One Correction - It is Doug DeVos instead of the older sibling - Dick DeVos.

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1 minute ago, Chobani Sailor said:

While it sounds like their design team is going to be pretty much overhauled with most of them jumping to Alinghy, if the rumors are true that TH has lined up Slingsby, Goodie and Campbell - that's a decent threesome to put on the starting line.  (their starts cannot be any worse than AC36)

One Correction - It is Doug DeVos instead of the older sibling - Dick DeVos.

Thanks for the correction mate!:)

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Just now, enigmatically2 said:

Good ol' American it's with nationality rule

Slingsby has the US passport(otherwise the rumor would have died 3 SAILGP events ago), Goodie sailed with the Team in AC36 and Campbell is American.

Maybe Dean Barker will be sailing with TNZ.....but that's for a different thread.

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18 hours ago, Chobani Sailor said:

Goodie sailed with the Team in AC36

But now not the club. The press release from ENTZ when confirming the challenge states "acting on behalf of such yacht club". So, a good chance with that wording goody wouldn't be eligible for AM, only NYYC. 

Things like this will be dependent on the wording of the nationality rule. 

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Not sure they merit a thread until they get a qualified CEO who will make the tough decisions on talent - on and off the water.  One sailmaker with 2 wealthy owners "on the line" does not add up to a leadership team for directing a $100 million competitive undertaking.

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23 hours ago, enigmatically2 said:

Not convinced. The AC has generally been a design race amongst a few. The events where there were lots of boats are in the minority. And it is a design race so the boats should be fast, exciting and special.

I don't think the difference between the AC75s and everyday sailing boats is any more than that between F1 and road cars. And I can see many more foilers coming on to the market which will shrink the gap even more.

Bigger problem if GD doesn't get the money together, but if the NYYC, or even all of US decides not to play that is not the end of the world. Lets face it, all the worlds truly big team sporting events manage to survive with zero or minor interest from the US.

I was not just talking about differences in the boats. I was talking about relatability. The General Public and Most Sailors cannot relate to foiling. Hell, I can't even get people to come out and try Land Sailing, which is faster and safer than any foiling boat.

And I'm sure more foiling boats will be coming out. But just look at the infrastructure needed to launce a Family foiler or a small Club foiling racer at your local harbor launch ramp. We've all seen videos of idiots launching their boats. Now add foils on your boat and idiots around you. Imagine the Liability issues, California Lawyers are drooling already.

But like you said, who cares if the US does not want to play. I certainly don't. I get more enjoyment watching the 18 footers in Sydney than I do watching the AC or SailGP.

 

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17 minutes ago, cbulger said:

Not sure they merit a thread until they get a qualified CEO who will make the tough decisions on talent - on and off the water.  One sailmaker with 2 wealthy owners "on the line" does not add up to a leadership team for directing a $100 million competitive undertaking.

There is probably time for you to cancel your S&S Ralph Lauren order

 

 

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2 minutes ago, cbulger said:

If you point is that AM is the best we got - fair enough.

I'm just griping because I'd love to cheer for a great US sailing team at the top of the sport, but we do have Daniela!

 

I agree - there was zero leadership in that team for AC36.  TH hired his sailing buddies, couldn't look himself in the mirror and see that he was a liability as a 50 year old grinder; off the water operations sounds like it was a fuster cluck with a 12 meter captain as COO; European design team has bailed to Alinghy

This is why Commodore Culver wanted to dump them from the NYYC and buy the S&S Snake Oil.

Hopefully they have all learned from their mistakes.

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Why would a yacht club be interested in that which is clearly NOT yachting?  

The most recent AC was essentially a demonstration sport.  It's not based on anything large numbers of people have even remote experience of. 

Although the universal rule that the faster boat will win the Cup remained in force, and the contest is usually fought and won before the first race, the actual sailing of the boats and the tactics used in the races were essentially frivolous.   Even the contest before the contest was boring, with no passion and barely any human element at all.  

Everything looks slow on TV.  50 knots may as well be a hundred.  What really matters is the rate of change between the boats, which was way TOO fast.  One mistake was a thousands of meters.  

Powerful ships pushing tons of water, racing for hours on end, fighting over tiny fractions of a % in speed and never knowing for sure who will win is what life on the high seas was for hundreds of years, when 1/10 of a knot could mean your ass.   That's drama.  That's yachting.   This obscene waste of money to demonstrate foiling for a handful of teams is absurdly lame, and I doubt will last many more cycles, if even one.   

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45 minutes ago, bluelaser2 said:

Powerful ships pushing tons of water, racing for hours on end, fighting over tiny fractions of a % in speed and never knowing for sure who will win is what life on the high seas was for hundreds of years, when 1/10 of a knot could mean your ass.   That's drama.  That's yachting.   This obscene waste of money to demonstrate foiling for a handful of teams is absurdly lame, and I doubt will last many more cycles, if even one.   

love it! +1

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If AM gets a beard club and wins, that YC will be the Cup holder.  Then the venue selection starts again...if it's some Florida club in the Panhandle, hurricanes seem to be liking the northern Gulf coast nowadays. Back to the future in Rhodiland? 

 

 

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"Roughly a quarter of American Magic’s production team for AC36 were graduates of the IYRS School of Technology & Trades in Newport.

It was great to spend time this week getting to know the current students, and to share experiences from production/shore team member Trevor Davidson (IYRS ‘18), Sean Healey (Mechatronics), Rob Ouellette (Operations) and Terry Hutchinson (Skipper).
As we head towards AC37, the IYRS / AM partnership continues to enrich skill sets and opportunities across the U.S. marine industry.

247471115_979875262569266_1253850400713791355_n.jpg

247946124_979875265902599_191224898878833710_n.jpg

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On 10/21/2021 at 6:51 PM, Chobani Sailor said:

This is why Commodore Culver wanted to dump them from the NYYC and buy the S&S Snake Oil

The words “pan” and “fire” come to mind ...

 

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On 10/21/2021 at 1:11 PM, bluelaser2 said:

Powerful ships pushing tons of water, racing for hours on end, fighting over tiny fractions of a % in speed and never knowing for sure who will win is what life on the high seas was for hundreds of years, when 1/10 of a knot could mean your ass.   That's drama.  That's yachting.   This obscene waste of money to demonstrate foiling for a handful of teams is absurdly lame, and I doubt will last many more cycles, if even one

Fuck yeah.

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On 10/22/2021 at 4:11 AM, bluelaser2 said:

Why would a yacht club be interested in that which is clearly NOT yachting?  

It is yachting whether you like it or not.

On 10/22/2021 at 4:11 AM, bluelaser2 said:

One mistake was a thousands of meters. 

An exaggeration. We did see some close racing in the last cycle in all three events.

On 10/22/2021 at 4:11 AM, bluelaser2 said:

Powerful ships pushing tons of water, racing for hours on end,

You can see that in the J class, and some of the other monster maxi's getting around.

 

Your diatribe, lament, whatever, is not a new one. The AC is a technology contest, and by definition is something that will evolve. The current 75's are the pinnacle of inshore racing yachts, and have already inspired spin-offs - with more to come. Most of us don't sail foiling boats, just like most of us don't drive F1 cars. Doesn't mean we can't marvel or relate to the tech/skills.

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4 hours ago, Horn Rock said:

It is yachting whether you like it or not.

Sailing, sure. Yachting, no.

Oversized-dinghies - without grace or style, and lacking even rudimentary provisions for navigation or living (sleeping, cooking, eating, etc.) - cannot reasonably be described as yachts.

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5 hours ago, Horn Rock said:

The current 75's are the pinnacle of inshore racing yachts,

They are the pinicale of inshore racing yachts as long as you believe inshore racing should be only within very limited wind ranges and no waves.

Wouldn't get much racing done if you lived in Christchurch or Wellington, that's for sure.

'Hi guys, I know we were taking the pinicale out to show those lead mines, but it's gusting up to 23kts so a bit dangerous.

Yeah, I know the opti's are going out, but they are not the pinicale, we are. Let you know when we plan on racing next. Weather looks good in about 13 weeks.'

:lol:

The only race boat that would need 11 discards for a 12 race series.

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On 10/22/2021 at 7:56 PM, Horn Rock said:

It is yachting whether you like it or not.

An exaggeration. We did see some close racing in the last cycle in all three events.

You can see that in the J class, and some of the other monster maxi's getting around.

 

Your diatribe, lament, whatever, is not a new one. The AC is a technology contest, and by definition is something that will evolve. The current 75's are the pinnacle of inshore racing yachts, and have already inspired spin-offs - with more to come. Most of us don't sail foiling boats, just like most of us don't drive F1 cars. Doesn't mean we can't marvel or relate to the tech/skills.

A compelling argument can be made the most exciting moment of AC36 was an AC75 launching out of the water and then sinking.  :rolleyes:

WetHog  :ph34r:

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9 hours ago, WetHog said:

A compelling argument can be made the most exciting moment of AC36 was an AC75 launching out of the water and then sinking.  :rolleyes:

WetHog  :ph34r:

Most exciting? It was the only exciting thing that happened. I barely remember any of the racing, it was all the same.

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On 10/21/2021 at 12:04 PM, cbulger said:

Not sure they merit a thread until they get a qualified CEO who will make the tough decisions on talent - on and off the water.

Not sure they merit a thread until they have the formal backing of a recognized YC. I don’t believe they can be involved as a potential AC challenger without ostensibly representing a club ... correct me if I’m wrong.

On 10/20/2021 at 1:22 PM, dg_sailingfan said:

There is clear evidence that American Magic will challenge highly likely through a Yacht Club in the Florida Panhandle (Pensacola).

Interesting. Link please?

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Here's what I can see of it

--

As the sailing world waits for the announcement of the Protocol for the 37th America’s Cup from Defender Emirates Team New Zealand on November 17, Cup Insider editor Justin Chisholm sat down with American Magic’s president of sailing operations and skipper Terry Hutchinson for an update on what the US Challenger has been up to since the conclusion of AC36.

During the interview they discuss:

  • the frustrations of not knowing the timing and venue of the 37th America’s Cup

  • the American team’s view of the potential venues for AC37

  • how the American Magic syndicate debriefed the last Cup cycle

  • the key lessons learned from that debrief

  • the potential upsides and downsides of the introduction of the new AC40 foiling monohull

  • the prospect of a Women’s America’s Cup and a Youth America’s Cup

  • American Magic’s relationship with the US Olympic programme

  • Ineos Britannia’s tie up with the Mercedes Formula 1 team and the potential benefits and challenges of that relationship

  • the chances of Terry racing aboard the American AC75 at the next Cup

  • Emirates Team New Zealand’s signing of Nathan Outteridge and which helmsmen American Magic’s may or may not be targeting


It's been it's been about three months since American Magic syndicate announced it was planning to challenge again for the next America’s Cup. Was that decision ever in doubt? Was it ever a possibility that you wouldn't challenge?

I think for any America’s Cup Challenger, before the event details are released, the decision on whether or not to actually enter is always in question.

We are sitting here today at the beginning of November, and we don't have a venue and we don't have a Protocol yet – although we're anticipating the protocol to be released on the seventeenth of this month. I think from an American Magic perspective, we need to see the rules of engagement. We need to understand where the venue is.

Obviously not knowing the venue is difficult for everyone. Are you frustrated by it, or do you understand the difficulty of the situation the Defender is in?

I understand the situation and I understand why these announcements have been delayed by the Defender. As a Challenger, the only way to fix the frustration with your lack of power over the America’s Cup it is to win the regatta. That's just a very honest statement. When you win the regatta, you get to avoid being frustrated by these things.

Saying all of that, we're still frustrated. We're not in a position really to comment because we don't know all the ins and outs of those dealings by Emirates Team New Zealand and INEOS Britannia.

Obviously, we still have our team base up in Auckland and we have all of our gear in that shed, in anticipation or hope that maybe AC37 is going to be there. But I don't think it's our role to really comment because we didn't win AC36.

Would Auckland be your preferred decision for America’s Cup 37? Is that where you want to go?

Absolutely. Our Team Principals want to see a venue picked that first and foremost is a good fit for the America’s Cup as an event. American Magic wants the event to have a lot of teams, good racing, and a healthy commercial and media environment. We prefer that a venue have a strong connection to the sport of sailing, or even better, to be a proven Cup venue.

Some of the venues that have been shortlisted by Emirates Team New Zealand fit all of those criteria. Some of them give us some pause, and some worry. Unfortunately, as a Challenger we are pretty powerless to impact the venue and Protocol details.

For the good of the Cup, and for the good of the teams, we all hope that Dalts, Ben and their teams get the details sorted as soon as possible and act in the best interests of the sport.

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28 minutes ago, NeedAClew said:

Reminds me of NYYC and separately ETNZ talking about restoring the spirit and traditions of the Cup once Ellison lost. 

Oh wait... 

But they are dragging it back to its original concepts with nationality rules and one design boats...

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1 hour ago, 33jesus said:

Damn…. You’re right. Oddly enough I read the full article this morning. Now only a snip. My apologies. 

Thanks but you don’t have to apologise. I was just saying.

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Like an abused wife going back to the abusive husband; it sounds like the NYYC is begging AM for forgiveness and HF and DD want the comforts what is known with the abusive NYYC instead of wondering if the grass is greener with another club.

I am not sure who is getting on their needs or maybe they are getting in a circle, but either way, if true, that's pretty pathetic.

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5 minutes ago, porthos said:

Are you talking about crew nationality rules? Because the original concepts of the contest (and how it worked for the first 60+ years) had no crew nationality requirements nor one design boats. Neither of those came in until after the cup restarted following WWII (and I don't think the first crew nationality requirements showed up until the 1970s or early 1980s).

1980 I think, after Rose sailed for AUS in '77. Completely dropped for 2007 but must have been loosened even for 2003?

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Just now, Stingray~ said:

1980 I think, after Rose sailed for AUS in '77. Dropped for 2007.

Right. Which confirms that Gissie was making a nicely-sarcastic point and I missed it entirely. 

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17 minutes ago, Chobani Sailor said:

Like an abused wife going back to the abusive husband; it sounds like the NYYC is begging AM for forgiveness and HF and DD want the comforts what is known with the abusive NYYC instead of wondering if the grass is greener with another club.

I am not sure who is getting on their needs or maybe they are getting in a circle, but either way, if true, that's pretty pathetic.

You'd imagine HF and DD carry some heft at the NYYC.

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4 minutes ago, NeedAClew said:

They realized IF they win, defending in RhoDyland is better than along Redneck Riviera in hurricane season. 

Imagine cramming everything in shitty old Newport.  It would be a nightmare trying to get in and around Newport - It's still the year 1878 there.  The liberal state of Rhode Island would give the hard nose republicans of DD and HF nothing but bureaucracy and red tape. PLUS shitty Newport is cold and rainy through June.  It's why American Magic only trained in Newport one summer.  They left for Auckland as soon as they got the green light from NZ to enter the country.

Hurricane season doesn't get going until August.  You could easily hold the event in Pensacola in June.  Teams would arrive in November of the previous year once hurricane season is over and do their training.  Probably better weather than Cork.

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They managed to hold the AC in Rhode Island for more than a few years without a great deal of difficulty.

Newport is a a lot different from the rest of the state. As we used to say, "there is Rhode Island, and there is Newport."

I trust you have tongue firmly in cheek on this one. After all, the NYYC's most popular clubhouse is there. The club has its fair share of Republicans. Democrats, too.

Money doesn't generally discriminate between Democrats and Republicans. Well, maybe just a little.

(Lived in Newport from the mid-1970s to the mid-1990s. Still have family and lots of friends there. And I enjoy a drink on the lawn at Harbour Court. Do it, if you ever get the chance.)

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9 minutes ago, accnick said:

They managed to hold the AC in Rhode Island for more than a few years without a great deal of difficulty.

Newport is a a lot different from the rest of the state. As we used to say, "there is Rhode Island, and there is Newport."

I trust you have tongue firmly in cheek on this one. After all, the NYYC's most popular clubhouse is there. The club has its fair share of Republicans. Democrats, too.

Money doesn't generally discriminate between Democrats and Republicans. Well, maybe just a little.

(Lived in Newport from the mid-1970s to the mid-1990s. Still have family and lots of friends there. And I enjoy a drink on the lawn at Harbour Court. Do it, if you ever get the chance.)

Nice but almost 4 decades later after '83 does the Newport area still have space to hold a multi-team AC? Pensacola could make more sense. 

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52 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

Nice but almost 4 decades later after '83 does the Newport area still have space to hold a multi-team AC? Pensacola could make more sense. 

The Team Compounds would be in Portsmouth, most likely (maybe Quonset).  I’m sure FT Adams would utilize the infrastructure from the Volvo to support dockage for the big races (Challenger series and Cup Races)

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4 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

Nice but almost 4 decades later after '83 does the Newport area still have space to hold a multi-team AC? Pensacola could make more sense. 

Probably not, but maybe. Both the ACWS and Volvo Ocean Race were based at Ft. Adams, which is largely a purpose-built yachting facility. But it could only accommodate about four teams at most.

The Newport waterfront is fully developed. All the boatyards that accommodated the America's Cup teams in the past, except one, are now luxury hotels, restaurants, and condos.

The real problem is that Newport has winter. There is no year-round sailing, except frostbiting.

Pensacola  has its own problems. The Gulf Coast has become Ground Zero for early-season (June, July, August) Atlantic hurricanes.

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On 11/17/2021 at 7:08 PM, accnick said:

Probably not, but maybe. Both the ACWS and Volvo Ocean Race were based at Ft. Adams, which is largely a purpose-built yachting facility. But it could only accommodate about four teams at most.

The Newport waterfront is fully developed. All the boatyards that accommodated the America's Cup teams in the past, except one, are now luxury hotels, restaurants, and condos.

The real problem is that Newport has winter. There is no year-round sailing, except frostbiting.

Pensacola  has its own problems. The Gulf Coast has become Ground Zero for early-season (June, July, August) Atlantic hurricanes.

What about where they stored the mothballed aircraft carriers 10 or so years ago?

WetHog  :ph34r:

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47 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

Don't usually give Buttscuttle credit for anything, but this "update" from American Magic is very encouraging indeed, in particulary because it also comes from the team principal Doug DeVos (The Fox).

This, together with the Ineos comments on communications, will need a lot of humble pie to be baked for all the Etnz haters around here.Not gone name them, the list is too lomg, and we all know who they are anyway.

 

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3 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

What the hell is it, with some reptile-minded Kiwis here who try to keep a list of 'haters' to keep them motivated - a cultural thing?

Nope, just sick of the dumb, tin foil hat conspiracy theories getting pushed around here by the ETNZ haters.

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4 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

Clear statements now from BA and Scott Ferguson that teams have been in the loop on AC75 rule changes. This is a good thing. 

AM’s statement does not include the words “yacht club”.

 

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1 hour ago, Stingray~ said:

What the hell is it, with some reptile-minded Kiwis here who try to keep a list of 'haters' to keep them motivated - a cultural thing?

What makes you think I"m a Kiwi, you apparently never look any further in SA than the AC.

And are you really so naive that you fail to bake some humble pie for yourself, or is your natural defense to start gaslighting me? Fuck, I even gave you a likey for finding that Magic statement.

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3 hours ago, Fiji Bitter said:

Don't usually give Buttscuttle credit for anything, but this "update" from American Magic is very encouraging indeed, in particulary because it also comes from the team principal Doug DeVos (The Fox).

This, together with the Ineos comments on communications, will need a lot of humble pie to be baked for all the Etnz haters around here.Not gone name them, the list is too lomg, and we all know who they are anyway.

 

 

This is excellent news I'll stick my hand up there, assumed that the reduction in crew and weight was a surprise to all the rest and a nice head start. But then again all we had to go on from the AM side was their YC proposing their own protocol.

If TH is still going to be the skipper and on the boat then I'm not sure how much they've been following it, or should I maybe check Strava to see his cycling mileage? Surely if they learnt anything from their Auckland review be needs to move into the GD role, he was excellent at it.

I'm not concerned about AM having a yacht club burgee to race under, more important they secure Paul Goodison to drive the boat first.

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7 hours ago, Fiji Bitter said:

Don't usually give Buttscuttle credit for anything, but this "update" from American Magic is very encouraging indeed, in particulary because it also comes from the team principal Doug DeVos (The Fox).

This, together with the Ineos comments on communications, will need a lot of humble pie to be baked for all the Etnz haters around here.Not gone name them, the list is too lomg, and we all know who they are anyway.

 

There might be a reason or two that the list is so long. But "haters"? Really?
 

9 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

Good news. A team to cheer for?

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4 hours ago, Fiji Bitter said:

What makes you think I"m a Kiwi, you apparently never look any further in SA than the AC.

And are you really so naive that you fail to bake some humble pie for yourself, or is your natural defense to start gaslighting me? Fuck, I even gave you a likey for finding that Magic statement.

Gaslighting. Ha. Spin is the real deal wormtongue.

And cut and paste wizard.

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4 hours ago, shebeen said:

This is excellent news I'll stick my hand up there, assumed that the reduction in crew and weight was a surprise to all the rest and a nice head start. But then again all we had to go on from the AM side was their YC proposing their own protocol.

Simon says rule changes were a surprise to chall, perspective chall, and COR.

I like to hear Simon's side of things, obviously you are extra well experienced, but sometimes...wtf

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4 hours ago, shebeen said:

This is excellent news I'll stick my hand up there, assumed that the reduction in crew and weight was a surprise to all the rest and a nice head start. But then again all we had to go on from the AM side was their YC proposing their own protocol.

Good on you for unreservedly sticking your hand up, that's pure class. None of the other doubters did so yet.

I think me and one or two others have mentioned before that all the three challenging team leaders have sailed and worked with/for Dalts. And consider him a "good" communicater or not, like him or not, there is no denying that if you ask him a question that he will give you an answer straight to your face. And he seems to inspire his team to do the same, both between themselves as well as with outsiders.

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1 hour ago, Rennmaus said:

There might be a reason or two that the list is so long. But "haters"? Really?

Yes, we all have our own reasons for being rather critical, or just supportive of Etnz and their leader(s). And we can be totally frank or abusive, that's part of the deal here. But make no mistake, some of us are real haters and/or trolls, others just highly critical and principled, like you, and several other honest posters. Also, several posters are relying on untrues and hearsay, or use outright slanderous insinuations to defame someone. Their moral compass badly needs adjusting.

 

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40 minutes ago, Fiji Bitter said:

Yes, we all have our own reasons for being rather critical, or just supportive of Etnz and their leader(s). And we can be totally frank or abusive, that's part of the deal here. But make no mistake, some of us are real haters and/or trolls, others just highly critical and principled, like you, and several other honest posters. Also, several posters are relying on untrues and hearsay, or use outright slanderous insinuations to defame someone. Their moral compass badly needs adjusting.

 

Or mostly just different shades of grey

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39 minutes ago, Fiji Bitter said:

Yes, we all have our own reasons for being rather critical, or just supportive of Etnz and their leader(s). And we can be totally frank or abusive, that's part of the deal here. But make no mistake, some of us are real haters and/or trolls, others just highly critical and principled, like you, and several other honest posters. Also, several posters are relying on untrues and hearsay, or use outright slanderous insinuations to defame someone. Their moral compass badly needs adjusting.

 

I have great respect for Kiwi sailing and for Grant Dalton as a sailor. But I don’t like the way Grant Dalton has handled many aspects of the Defender role. I don’t like the direction he has taken with these boats. I feel exactly the same way about Ellison. I had enormous respect for Larry when I worked for Oracle competitors in tech. I got a big offer to go to Oracle and took less to not go there. I respected Larry in sailing but didn’t like much of his approach. If American Magic competes I will root for them to kick GDs ass. If Britannia is the defender I will root for them. I want to see GD defeated and I want to see the cup in Newport or, at worst, Cowes. But not in Auckland, Italy or - God forbid - Pensacola.

If that makes me a hater, then…DB6DECD0-7CEA-43DE-89DA-BB79CF89E2A9.gif.bc2af44833b43c707250c3f13bc740ff.gif

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4 hours ago, Fiji Bitter said:

Yes, we all have our own reasons for being rather critical, or just supportive of Etnz and their leader(s). And we can be totally frank or abusive, that's part of the deal here. But make no mistake, some of us are real haters and/or trolls, others just highly critical and principled, like you, and several other honest posters. Also, several posters are relying on untrues and hearsay, or use outright slanderous insinuations to defame someone. Their moral compass badly needs adjusting.

 

To be fair, the ones you call trolls and haters are just taking their moral compass from the Kiwis they see here.

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6 hours ago, loneshark64 said:

I have great respect for Kiwi sailing and for Grant Dalton as a sailor. But I don’t like the way Grant Dalton has handled many aspects of the Defender role. I don’t like the direction he has taken with these boats. I feel exactly the same way about Ellison. I had enormous respect for Larry when I worked for Oracle competitors in tech. I got a big offer to go to Oracle and took less to not go there. I respected Larry in sailing but didn’t like much of his approach. If American Magic competes I will root for them to kick GDs ass. If Britannia is the defender I will root for them. I want to see GD defeated and I want to see the cup in Newport or, at worst, Cowes. But not in Auckland, Italy or - God forbid - Pensacola.

If that makes me a hater, then…DB6DECD0-7CEA-43DE-89DA-BB79CF89E2A9.gif.bc2af44833b43c707250c3f13bc740ff.gif

Yep, and at least you're honest. I'd prefer GD and Team NZ win, simply because I've supported them since 87. 

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9 hours ago, dogwatch said:

Not for me. I don't find the DeVos family's politics or source of wealth very attractive.

True of most all of the $B campaign financers to various degrees. But they do get credit in my mind, for the fact they are dumping so much into the sport and technology we here enjoy. 

I like to think that LE's efforts even beyond sailing and tennis, like for example the green effort on Lanai; the really-solid efforts by Gates (MS partner to Allen, ex-funder of Seattle's OneWorld); and many other $B's who earned their business wealth 'ruthlessly' do late in life often contribute/return to society in positive ways.

I took a good amount of liking and respect out of the AM campaign by the time they were done. TH is a big reason but surely it's the case that very few of the team have anything at all to do with Amway or politics or whatever. 

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13 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

True of most all of the $B campaign financers to various degrees. But they do get credit in my mind, for the fact they are dumping so much into the sport and technology we here enjoy. 

I wasn't able to emotionally invest in any of the AC36 teams for that reason; that and ETNZ being a Kiwi team for Kiwis, which I am not. I do not give moral credit for spending on something as trivial and self-indulgent as the AC. There are other $Bs applying their wealth to more worthy causes and kudos to them.

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4 hours ago, dogwatch said:

I wasn't able to emotionally invest in any of the AC36 teams for that reason; that and ETNZ being a Kiwi team for Kiwis, which I am not. I do not give moral credit for spending on something as trivial and self-indulgent as the AC. There are other $Bs applying their wealth to more worthy causes and kudos to them.

If you want to enjoy AC yacht racing you need to leave moral credit and the sins of billionaires out of it. Hold your nose and look at the boats.

The “your billionaire is worse than our billionaire game” is silly. Who is worse? The sheikdom of Dubai, recently of “lock up the princess” fame? The carcinogenic chemical company assembled by pension-dumping private equiteers? The crazy Christian multi level marketing Trumper? The occasional Koch brother? Bertarelli, I guess, he doesn’t seem so bad. Of course, Larry gets a lifetime achievement award for being a total dick. 

How about moral credit for carbon neutral renewable hydrogen solar hand waving and “for the ocean” social media awareness campaigning?

This is all bullshit.

The environmental contribution of the teams’ solar panels and hydrogen chase boats will be counteracted by output from INEOS F1 team and Mercedes in approximately 4 nanoseconds. If foiling hydrogen technology trickles down and is used on every pleasure boat in the world in 20 years it will do fuck-all to counteract the impact of Emirates Airlines and the oil producing UAE right now, or the mega yachts the AC desperately courts to attend the event, attendee flights, or even team travel.

It is 100 percent gold plated USDA certified grade A bullshit. 

The whole thing is about rich men trying to hack the rules, build the fastest boat, and win. Which is fun.

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4 minutes ago, loneshark64 said:

If you want to enjoy of AC yacht racing you need to leave moral credit and the sins of billionaires out of it. Hold your nose and look at the boats.

I'm not only interested in the boats. Actually, I'm not even primarily interested in the boats. YMMV.

I've said precisely that I am not discussing  “your billionaire is worse than our billionaire". I don't much like any of them. 

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6 hours ago, loneshark64 said:

If you want to enjoy AC yacht racing you need to leave moral credit and the sins of billionaires out of it. Hold your nose and look at the boats.

The “your billionaire is worse than our billionaire game” is silly. Who is worse? The sheikdom of Dubai, recently of “lock up the princess” fame? The carcinogenic chemical company assembled by pension-dumping private equiteers? The crazy Christian multi level marketing Trumper? The occasional Koch brother? Bertarelli, I guess, he doesn’t seem so bad. Of course, Larry gets a lifetime achievement award for being a total dick. 

How about moral credit for carbon neutral renewable hydrogen solar hand waving and “for the ocean” social media awareness campaigning?

This is all bullshit.

The environmental contribution of the teams’ solar panels and hydrogen chase boats will be counteracted by output from INEOS F1 team and Mercedes in approximately 4 nanoseconds. If foiling hydrogen technology trickles down and is used on every pleasure boat in the world in 20 years it will do fuck-all to counteract the impact of Emirates Airlines and the oil producing UAE right now, or the mega yachts the AC desperately courts to attend the event, attendee flights, or even team travel.

It is 100 percent gold plated USDA certified grade A bullshit. 

The whole thing is about rich men trying to hack the rules, build the fastest boat, and win. Which is fun.

Bravo. This is near Lesbian Robot prose.

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On 11/20/2021 at 1:46 PM, Stingray~ said:

True of most all of the $B campaign financers to various degrees. But they do get credit in my mind, for the fact they are dumping so much into the sport and technology we here enjoy. 

I like to think that LE's efforts even beyond sailing and tennis, like for example the green effort on Lanai; the really-solid efforts by Gates (MS partner to Allen, ex-funder of Seattle's OneWorld); and many other $B's who earned their business wealth 'ruthlessly' do late in life often contribute/return to society in positive ways.

I took a good amount of liking and respect out of the AM campaign by the time they were done. TH is a big reason but surely it's the case that very few of the team have anything at all to do with Amway or politics or whatever. 

NYYC and American Magic are getting in bed again.  The abused always go back to the abuser.  They actually would fit in well with Saudi Arabia policy.

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1 hour ago, Chobani Sailor said:

NYYC and American Magic are getting in bed again.  The abused always go back to the abuser.  They actually would fit in well with Saudi Arabia policy.

Really, so we can merge the threads then?

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30 minutes ago, shebeen said:

Really, so we can merge the threads then?

Where is this news? I missed that. It is the best solution, Devos being in NYYC and all the history. But NYYC just announced they were out a month ago, have they announced a change to that? 

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35 minutes ago, loneshark64 said:

Anything will be better than having it named “Trump”. Except perhaps “Emirates”.

It will be a Hilton, I think?

And no, can't see Trump being in office in 2025. Like with many politicians who achieve high office they are damaged goods by the time they are done.

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21 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

It will be a Hilton, I think?

And no, can't see Trump being in office in 2025. Like with many politicians who achieve high office they are damaged goods by the time they are done.

Sometimes they are damaged goods even before they take office. Sometimes they are just selling us a bill of goods from the start.

The sorry part is lot of people buy into that bill of goods., and then everyone  pays for it.

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