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PROTECTING INTERIOR DURING KITE DROP


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I am starting to sail a brand new Solaris 44 and the owner has forbidden to drop the kite inside the boat.

He wants to keep it free from salt and water. I can understand!! Its and aweseome new boat with stunning luxury interior.

But he is also quite competitive so I would like to find a solution to perform fast drops without damaging the interior. Dropping the kite on deck and packing it outside is not a competitive solution.

Foredeck hatch is not an option as it doesnt open fully and is quite forward, so we must foccus on companionway drop.

I have a couple of inspirational videos:

 

¿¿Any ideas?? ¿¿How do they do it on luxury super yachts like those on the second video??

 

Cheers!!

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Have your sailmaker measure for and fabricate an oversize nylon bag that completely fills the companionway. The key is to have it fixed all around the edges of the companionway so it stays put until it's time to remove it. Hopefully there will be some hatch details such as grooves or slots which can be used to secure the launch bag.

Oversize so you are dropping the sail into it, not stuffing the sail into it.

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1 hour ago, Somebody Else said:

Have your sailmaker measure for and fabricate an oversize nylon bag that completely fills the companionway. The key is to have it fixed all around the edges of the companionway so it stays put until it's time to remove it. Hopefully there will be some hatch details such as grooves or slots which can be used to secure the launch bag.

Oversize so you are dropping the sail into it, not stuffing the sail into it.

+1 on that suggestion.  Most setups like that use a temporary rope track to slide the bag forward.  Doesn’t sound like the owner would be up for that so have the sailmaker make an easy un-mount so the bag can be taken inside after the take down.

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I've been on boats that have had canvas covers made to cover the wood around the chart take area, galley, and table. I assume all custom made by the sail maker. I also seem to remember big poly bags over seat cushions in high risk areas. The floor still gets wet.

Might work better than a companion way bag on a big boat.

His boats still going to get beaten up racing, he's going to have to come to terms with that or leave it on the dock to keep it nice.

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4 hours ago, Somebody Else said:

Have your sailmaker measure for and fabricate an oversize nylon bag that completely fills the companionway. The key is to have it fixed all around the edges of the companionway so it stays put until it's time to remove it. Hopefully there will be some hatch details such as grooves or slots which can be used to secure the launch bag.

Oversize so you are dropping the sail into it, not stuffing the sail into it.

^ this ^

The bag can be secured on fore/aft lines along the overhead so it slide out of the way so that crew can get in/out thru the companionway when not hoisting or dousing the spinnaker

FB- Doug

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3 hours ago, JL92S said:

The hatch sack is a good idea. Alternatively check out the Deckchute concept

I was going to suggest this but forgot the name, seems like a good idea, although it could clog the deck up a bit, depends on how the foredeck's set up.

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Umm get a full blown and empty race boat and race it hard, adjourn to the more civilised vessel for after race drinks and the debrief.

Or like Mari Cha,  have a removable interior especially the high knock areas, we could take 7 tonnes of interior out of one French maxi- everything bolted to the alloy ring frames, throw it in a container and go race

Yes, have raced all manner of really nice vessels with padded covers and Clear plastic hose duct taped over fiddles etc.

The clew rings and Sparcrafts always used to find the one area that was unprotected without fail. PITA

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10 hours ago, European Bloke said:

It sounds like the dude is still currently pretending this is a racing boat, even if he doesn't want the lads knocking the vases over down below.

Haha spot on 

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45 minutes ago, Kevlar Edge said:
10 hours ago, European Bloke said:

It sounds like the dude is still currently pretending this is a racing boat, even if he doesn't want the lads knocking the vases over down below.

Haha spot on 

If the boat is not designed and built with the purpose of handling the sails needed to drive her, it's not even a good cruising boat.

OTOH if it sails well enough to be fun to sail, then it can obviously be fun to race... WTF is the owner doing trying to put on sails that have no way of being set or doused (without risking damage)?

Sounds like a mismatch, somewhere.

FB- Doug

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17 hours ago, Somebody Else said:

Have your sailmaker measure for and fabricate an oversize nylon bag that completely fills the companionway. The key is to have it fixed all around the edges of the companionway so it stays put until it's time to remove it. Hopefully there will be some hatch details such as grooves or slots which can be used to secure the launch bag.

Oversize so you are dropping the sail into it, not stuffing the sail into it.

Ding Ding Ding…..we have a winner. 

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13 hours ago, voodoochile said:

Snuffer?

 

 

Yes…furling tech is also very refined.

 

I would advise jumping ship. The owner must not really grasp that things get wet on a boat

 

 

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a bag works great on a 25' sportboat. we used one on my Elliott and launched from the companionway and all was right in the world (except of course it's a spinnaker and it's going to get wet and the nylon bag was designed to let the water through).

On a 44'er that wants to be competitive? you're gonna need a squirrel and the bag doesn't let that happen. so you're into early drops and two people on the foredeck during the rounding stuffing the kite into an oversized bag through a regular sized hatch?

I really only see two options.

1) get another boat

2) move to a non-spinnaker division

 

Also, in every one of those boats in the second video, the spinnaker ends up down below. even on the J-class boats. those deck drops were done in pretty light breeze.

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8 minutes ago, ryley said:

a bag works great on a 25' sportboat. we used one on my Elliott and launched from the companionway and all was right in the world (except of course it's a spinnaker and it's going to get wet and the nylon bag was designed to let the water through).

On a 44'er that wants to be competitive? you're gonna need a squirrel and the bag doesn't let that happen. so you're into early drops and two people on the foredeck during the rounding stuffing the kite into an oversized bag through a regular sized hatch?

I really only see two options.

1) get another boat

2) move to a non-spinnaker division

 

Also, in every one of those boats in the second video, the spinnaker ends up down below. even on the J-class boats. those deck drops were done in pretty light breeze.

Could the owner buy a used Laser instead of a spinnaker?

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On 10/23/2021 at 4:07 AM, QuiqueOrtiz said:

 

I am starting to sail a brand new Solaris 44 and the owner has forbidden to drop the kite inside the boat.

He wants to keep it free from salt and water. I can understand!! Its and aweseome new boat with stunning luxury interior.

But he is also quite competitive so I would like to find a solution to perform fast drops without damaging the interior. Dropping the kite on deck and packing it outside is not a competitive solution.

Foredeck hatch is not an option as it doesnt open fully and is quite forward, so we must foccus on companionway drop.

I have a couple of inspirational videos:

 

¿¿Any ideas?? ¿¿How do they do it on luxury super yachts like those on the second video??

 

Cheers!!

Racer cruisers use snuffers to avoid degrading the interior 

with practice they work

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On 10/23/2021 at 5:37 PM, QuiqueOrtiz said:

 

I am starting to sail a brand new Solaris 44 and the owner has forbidden to drop the kite inside the boat.

He wants to keep it free from salt and water. I can understand!! Its and aweseome new boat with stunning luxury interior.

But he is also quite competitive so I would like to find a solution to perform fast drops without damaging the interior. Dropping the kite on deck and packing it outside is not a competitive solution.

Foredeck hatch is not an option as it doesnt open fully and is quite forward, so we must foccus on companionway drop.

I have a couple of inspirational videos:

 

¿¿Any ideas?? ¿¿How do they do it on luxury super yachts like those on the second video??

 

Cheers!!

Leave it in the bag.

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1%er issue.

Never had it on my Formula 18 Hobie Cat.

Right into the bag on the trampoline..

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Seems more likely that crew coming and going from deck to cabin will be more damaging to the interior than a soft and maybe wet spinnaker.  What is done with wet weather gear.....

 

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17 minutes ago, yoyo said:

Seems more likely that crew coming and going from deck to cabin will be more damaging to the interior than a soft and maybe wet spinnaker.  What is done with wet weather gear.....

 

Crew lives on the rail

no need to come down below

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On 10/23/2021 at 10:08 PM, ryley said:

a bag works great on a 25' sportboat. we used one on my Elliott and launched from the companionway and all was right in the world (except of course it's a spinnaker and it's going to get wet and the nylon bag was designed to let the water through).

On a 44'er that wants to be competitive? you're gonna need a squirrel and the bag doesn't let that happen. so you're into early drops and two people on the foredeck during the rounding stuffing the kite into an oversized bag through a regular sized hatch?

I really only see two options.

1) get another boat

2) move to a non-spinnaker division

 

Also, in every one of those boats in the second video, the spinnaker ends up down below. even on the J-class boats. those deck drops were done in pretty light breeze.

^^^^^^This^^^^^^^. The bag in the companionway only works well on smaller boats. The kite on a 44 footer is big and heavy and can get away from a crew easier in big breeze. 

Most boats that size and larger do a letterbox through the center hatch on the deckhouse. The Swans and Baltics I have sailed on(all luxury interiors) had floor boards of plywood(replacing or covering the teak and holly) specifically for racing and all interior bright work(known wear areas) covered with tape or anti chafe strips. Its a PAI to put all this shit on for racing, but it will keep the interior nice. 

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Too bad sailboats can't withstand water. 

First of all, a spinnaker should be kept out of the water.

Secondly, the owner can stuff the cushions and all his other shit somewhere else. Unless you really go out shrimping on each race, a bit of a moist spinnaker is not going to damage the interior

Thirdly, don't race on a boat on which the above cannot be applied

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On 10/26/2021 at 8:01 AM, AnotherSailor said:

Too bad sailboats can't withstand water. 

First of all, a spinnaker should be kept out of the water.

Secondly, the owner can stuff the cushions and all his other shit somewhere else. Unless you really go out shrimping on each race, a bit of a moist spinnaker is not going to damage the interior

Thirdly, don't race on a boat on which the above cannot be applied

Theoretically a spinnaker can be kept out of the water but our big A3 is almost always headed for my dining room table to dry out. 

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Good ideas here and love the custom bag one. I also think you cant have both being either a race boat or cruiser?

 

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25 minutes ago, AnotherSailor said:

You got a hungry A3?

Absolutely and apparently from those of the female persuasion, my A3 is not an attractive dinner guest.  I could try different colors but despite the apparent impact on jackets, bags, and footwear, it will not be sufficient grounds for a new spin. 

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On 10/23/2021 at 6:07 PM, QuiqueOrtiz said:

r has forbidden to drop the kite inside the boat

How odd. Where do you store the sails? 
Run for the hills QQ. He sounds like a right fuckwit. I bled all over my brand new 40’ the first day of commissioning, and the yard proudly showed me how I can safely hose out the interior once you pull the cushions out.

What a tool, no sail douses in the boat my arse. I care about the crew being safe holding onto a 2000 ft2 kite, not the wooden trim. Dude should sell it to a sailor and buy a stink boat. 

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Back when there were still Swan regattas in SoCal we would spend a few days covering the interiors before racing. Split vinyl hose over the corner posts, all cushions sealed in plastic bags/tubes, butcher paper (or thicker) covering all the floors (replaced at night if it got wet) But we were allowed to drop into fore or mid hatches

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15 minutes ago, longy said:

Back when there were still Swan regattas in SoCal we would spend a few days covering the interiors before racing. Split vinyl hose over the corner posts, all cushions sealed in plastic bags/tubes, butcher paper (or thicker) covering all the floors (replaced at night if it got wet) But we were allowed to drop into fore or mid hatches

The forward hatch is the best place for a spinnaker drop bag 

repack was always the responsibility of a skilled crew, typically with a bucket, rubber bands , woolies or a zipper sock 

salt water contamination is a fact of life 

strip down and wash the interior after the regatta 

over the years I grew to appreciate snuffers 

close reach sets and snuffs are difficult 

 

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On 10/23/2021 at 10:07 AM, QuiqueOrtiz said:

 

But he is also quite competitive so I would like to find a solution to perform fast drops without damaging the interior. Dropping the kite on deck and packing it outside is not a competitive solution.

Dropping on deck can be competitive on a bigger boat, a well executed windward drop straight into the bag is hard to beat! A leeward drop right in front of the shrouds into the bag is not bad either... You don't need to pack the kite as long as you keep the 3 points attached until the sail is in the bag.

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Hi all and thanks for your answers.

Some clarifications on the racing plan and sail inventory:

We plan to be competitive in offshore/coastal racing. Its not a competitive boat for inshore racing. Keeping the interior dry is also a priority when offshore.

When sailing shorthanded, dropping on deck is not safe. Spinnaker must end up down below so the owner has to understand this. Maybe in some ideal conditions and with large crew, we can drop outside, but boat must be prepared to drop inside if needed:

-Interior should be protected using plastic, protect tapes interior (seems a cool product), batch tape etc...

-Have a dry cleaner product and paper roll to dry salt water when possible.

THe spinnakers to be dropped will be the A1 and A2. For medium-strong wind and reaching, we plan to have a furling A3. Maybe we sacrifice some DW performance due to the anti-torsion rope, what do u think? ¿Any reccomendations for designing this A3 furling sail?

Maybe a snuffer for the a2 for shorthanded offshore.

 

When inshore racing, larger crew, and keep the kite out of the water. Dont expect to be competitive inshore.

 

The boat looks fun to sail reaching and DW on a breeze. Also comfortable to sail UW with reduced crew due to its great RM.

Seems to me a good balance cruiser-racer for a small crew.

 

 

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One windy night offshore:

WE HAVE TO DROP THE KITE NOW!!

SHIT, WHERE ARE THE PAPER TOWELS??!!?

GO INSIDE AND LOOK FOR THEM; BUT DON'T FORGET TO CHANGE YOUR DUBARY'S FOR SLIPPERS!

I understand you want to keep the inside clean and dry, that's why you have racing canvas furniture and floor covers.

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2 hours ago, M26 said:

One windy night offshore:

WE HAVE TO DROP THE KITE NOW!!

SHIT, WHERE ARE THE PAPER TOWELS??!!?

GO INSIDE AND LOOK FOR THEM; BUT DON'T FORGET TO CHANGE YOUR DUBARY'S FOR SLIPPERS!

I understand you want to keep the inside clean and dry, that's why you have racing canvas furniture and floor covers.

 

39 minutes ago, European Bloke said:

It's going to be worse when they bundle down a wet number 1, with 50 liters of sea and 2 soaking wet blokes to repack it.

One windy night we would be flying the furling A3, so simply furl and drop on deck, then pack it.

Shit can always happen, but it must be the exception.

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Deckchute system is discarded as in this kind of boats, it is a very slow system, even slower than ussing a snuffer, and it takes out a big space on deck. Plus, if you need to use another kite you have a lot of extra work... Anyone has tried this system?

It looks cool on superyachts with super fast electric winches though.

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4 minutes ago, QuiqueOrtiz said:

 

One windy night we would be flying the furling A3, so simply furl and drop on deck, then pack it.

Shit can always happen, but it must be the exception.

The headsail. Take down the big wet headsail, replace with smaller headsail. Repack big headsail enough that they bowman can get it on deck again when required.

That will be done below, cos you can do it on deck in 20+ knots 

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5 hours ago, QuiqueOrtiz said:

Hi all and thanks for your answers.

Some clarifications on the racing plan and sail inventory:

We plan to be competitive in offshore/coastal racing. Its not a competitive boat for inshore racing. Keeping the interior dry is also a priority when offshore.

When sailing shorthanded, dropping on deck is not safe. Spinnaker must end up down below so the owner has to understand this. Maybe in some ideal conditions and with large crew, we can drop outside, but boat must be prepared to drop inside if needed:

-Interior should be protected using plastic, protect tapes interior (seems a cool product), batch tape etc...

-Have a dry cleaner product and paper roll to dry salt water when possible.

THe spinnakers to be dropped will be the A1 and A2. For medium-strong wind and reaching, we plan to have a furling A3. Maybe we sacrifice some DW performance due to the anti-torsion rope, what do u think? ¿Any reccomendations for designing this A3 furling sail?

Maybe a snuffer for the a2 for shorthanded offshore.

 

When inshore racing, larger crew, and keep the kite out of the water. Dont expect to be competitive inshore.

 

The boat looks fun to sail reaching and DW on a breeze. Also comfortable to sail UW with reduced crew due to its great RM.

Seems to me a good balance cruiser-racer for a small crew.

 

 

Furler. Just about your only option. Furl the kite. lower down and coil on deck. Best if you can lower it in a bag and stow it in the forepeak. I don't know if that is an option for you. Yes, it's slower, but if you're racing offshore, you'll have time to make slower maneuvers.

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19 minutes ago, Remodel said:

Furler. Just about your only option. Furl the kite. lower down and coil on deck. Best if you can lower it in a bag and stow it in the forepeak. I don't know if that is an option for you. Yes, it's slower, but if you're racing offshore, you'll have time to make slower maneuvers.

Yeah, thats the plan. In medium-strong wind use the furling A3. In light-medim air its easier to keep the kite dry. With reduced crew we may try a snuffer for the A2...

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21 minutes ago, Irrational 14 said:

One word you mentioned - Offshore. You may need to re-evaluate that plan. Things will get wet below no matter how careful you plan. Good luck.

You are right. It will happen some times.

Thats why, having the interior well-protected, and working on systems and techniques, will help us to keep the gear in better shape and increase safety.

Failing to plan = planing to fail.

A messy owner/crew will destroy a boat faster than one that takes care, IMO.

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7 hours ago, QuiqueOrtiz said:

We plan to be competitive in offshore/coastal racing.

Are you allowed to wear shoes onboard?

You want to offshore and coastal race yet the priority is to wipe off salt water down below after a drop???

How's your man over board and ditch/raft planning going - does everybody know exactly what to do?

 

I assume there will be a 'wetlock' set up when it gets windy and wet on deck. You know 'caues A: it's a sailboat 2: you'll need to get all that salt water off your foulies, hang the foulies in a special closet to then be safe enough to enter the clean cabin to wipe it down and for off watches, barefoot!!!!!!!

 

Just after the drop:

"We need to tack!"

"But we're not done cleaning up down below and we need to put our foulies back on, gives us 35 minutes...."

 

Your best plan is to plan to never get the kite wet...

and never leave the dock in anything over 5-7 gusting to 10 or if it looks like it might rain!

or find another boat!!!!

jiFfM.jpg

 

 

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On 11/2/2021 at 8:06 AM, European Bloke said:

I predict tantrums and upset

The first crew to spill a beer in the car in  is farked.  

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