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Let's not forget it was Dr Deborah Birx who sat there and didn't blink an eye when Trump was recommending Bleach and UV light for covid.

Trump's White House ignored advice on COVID-19 that could've saved over 130,000 lives, Birx said

Trump's COVID-19 response led to many preventable deaths, Deborah Birx told House lawmakers. 
Over 130,000 lives could've been saved if Trump's White House followed the science, she said. 
Birx also testified that the 2020 election distracted Trump from the pandemic. 

Dr. Deborah Birx, the former White House COVID-19 response coordinator, in testimony to the House select subcommittee on the coronavirus crisis said that former President Donald Trump's approach to the pandemic led to a massive number of preventable deaths. 

"No," Birx said when asked if Trump did everything in his power to curb the spread and save lives, per excerpts of her testimony released by the committee on Tuesday. 

"And I've said that to the White House in general, and I believe I was very clear to the president in specifics of what I needed him to do," she added. 

Birx, who testified before the committee in mid-October, said that over 130,000 lives could've been saved in the early stages of the pandemic had Trump's White House adhered to the science and pushed for measures advocated by experts.
......................................

Read more: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trumps-white-house-ignored-advice-on-covid-19-that-couldve-saved-over-130000-lives-birx-said/ar-AAPYXRH  
 

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5 minutes ago, Blue Crab said:

I think she shares some of the blame by going along to get along. She was sucking mushroom instead of blowing the whistle.

She could have been famous and saved lives. Instead, she stayed silent to keep her job, and now no one will remember her at all.

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13 minutes ago, badlatitude said:

She could have been famous and saved lives. 

How could that be proved?  She would have instituted a number of actions that would have made many unhappy.  How can you prove you saved lives?  Not trying to be a prick, but the likely outcome would have been inconvenienced citizens taking her name in vain.

Serious question.

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1 minute ago, Cal20sailor said:

How could that be proved?  She would have instituted a number of actions that would have made many unhappy.  How can you prove you saved lives?  Not trying to be a prick, but the likely outcome would have been inconvenienced citizens taking her name in vain.

Serious question.

Simply contradicting Trump would have done a lot of good. He's basically a coward, and I doubt much would have happened to her. Stopping the nonsense of self medicating could have saved many, and it would have put the medical community back in charge, instead of the president.

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1 hour ago, justsomeguy! said:

Nobody tells Trump what to do.

Well, maybe Putin.

Or ivanka

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11 minutes ago, Blue Crab said:

Who usually says, "please stop touching my breast, father."

"O.K. Daddy, you can take your thumb out of my ass now, the press is starting to arrive."

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Okay now what? Will anything happen as a result of her testimony?  To her? To Trump?  What's the point of this thread?  Or the three others like this you start every day? 

What a way to spend time.  Jeez. 

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16 minutes ago, Leeroy Jenkins said:

Okay now what? Will anything happen as a result of her testimony?  To her? To Trump?  What's the point of this thread?  Or the three others like this you start every day? 

What a way to spend time.  Jeez. 

The point is to keep the conversation moving, if you don't like a thread or it doesn't meet your expectations, feel free to start your own. if it's interesting, people will flock to participate and if they don't it goes away, no harm done.

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25 minutes ago, Leeroy Jenkins said:

Okay now what? Will anything happen as a result of her testimony?  To her? To Trump?  What's the point of this thread?  Or the three others like this you start every day? 

What a way to spend time.  Jeez. 

People need to do something while the chafing heals...

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4 hours ago, badlatitude said:

Let's not forget it was Dr Deborah Birx who sat there and didn't blink an eye when Trump was recommending Bleach and UV light for covid.

Trump's White House ignored advice on COVID-19 that could've saved over 130,000 lives, Birx said

Trump's COVID-19 response led to many preventable deaths, Deborah Birx told House lawmakers. 
Over 130,000 lives could've been saved if Trump's White House followed the science, she said. 
Birx also testified that the 2020 election distracted Trump from the pandemic. 

Dr. Deborah Birx, the former White House COVID-19 response coordinator, in testimony to the House select subcommittee on the coronavirus crisis said that former President Donald Trump's approach to the pandemic led to a massive number of preventable deaths. 

"No," Birx said when asked if Trump did everything in his power to curb the spread and save lives, per excerpts of her testimony released by the committee on Tuesday. 

"And I've said that to the White House in general, and I believe I was very clear to the president in specifics of what I needed him to do," she added. 

Birx, who testified before the committee in mid-October, said that over 130,000 lives could've been saved in the early stages of the pandemic had Trump's White House adhered to the science and pushed for measures advocated by experts.
......................................

Read more: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trumps-white-house-ignored-advice-on-covid-19-that-couldve-saved-over-130000-lives-birx-said/ar-AAPYXRH  
 

My first instinct is that her revelation is a bit late.  Had she said it at the time, she might have saved some of those 130K.  Sounds like she chose her career over doing her job or blowing the whistle.

 

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3 hours ago, Cal20sailor said:

How could that be proved?  She would have instituted a number of actions that would have made many unhappy.  How can you prove you saved lives?  Not trying to be a prick, but the likely outcome would have been inconvenienced citizens taking her name in vain.

Serious question.

Just admit it, you are just trying to be a prick.  

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3 hours ago, badlatitude said:

Simply contradicting Trump would have done a lot of good. He's basically a coward, and I doubt much would have happened to her. Stopping the nonsense of self medicating could have saved many, and it would have put the medical community back in charge, instead of the president.

Disagree.  I think the orange smeg would have fired her on the spot.  And that's OK, it would have opened pandora's box.  Had she come out publicly and forcefully saying the POTUS is ignoring the science and deliberately killing people.... all hell would have broken loose.  And I believe things would have changed quickly because he IS a coward and needs to be liked.  If the media were and even his allies were saying WTF 24/7.  It would have changed and people would be alive today.

Edit to add.... I'm not a fan of Faucci for the exact same reason.  He kept silent and mostly toed the party line when the entire gov't science team from the WH, NIH, CDC, etc should have been in open and vocal revolt.  I think Biden made a mistake keeping him on because of that unwillingness to buck the POTUS.

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One thing I've been pondering lately is if there is any possibility that criminal or civil charges could be brought against tfg for the number of dead and how he handled the pandemic.  He even admitted that he specifically withheld info from the public.  More and more is coming to light that many if not most of his actions were deliberate with knowledge of the outcome and he still chose to go down that path anyway.  IOW, it wasn't just incompetence.  There are more and more instances where he used the pandemic for political gain, withheld aid and information from some states while giving preference to others, etc.  I think it amounts to Negligent homicide and dereliction of duty on the low end of the scale and mass murder/crimes against humanity/genocide on the extreme end.  I believe you could make a logical argument either way or somewhere in the middle. 

@Sol Rosenberg, Any thoughts on this from a legal perspective.  Is he always shielded by immunity for things he did while in office?  I don't know how this works with a former guy.

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37 minutes ago, Burning Man said:

My first instinct is that her revelation is a bit late.  Had she said it at the time, she might have saved some of those 130K.  Sounds like she chose her career over doing her job or blowing the whistle.

 

Yep, my thoughts exactly.

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34 minutes ago, Burning Man said:

Disagree.  I think the orange smeg would have fired her on the spot.  And that's OK, it would have opened pandora's box.  Had she come out publicly and forcefully saying the POTUS is ignoring the science and deliberately killing people.... all hell would have broken loose.  And I believe things would have changed quickly because he IS a coward and needs to be liked.  If the media were and even his allies were saying WTF 24/7.  It would have changed and people would be alive today.

Edit to add.... I'm not a fan of Faucci for the exact same reason.  He kept silent and mostly toed the party line when the entire gov't science team from the WH, NIH, CDC, etc should have been in open and vocal revolt.  I think Biden made a mistake keeping him on because of that unwillingness to buck the POTUS.

That's what I was trying to say, you said it better. All of this anti-vaccine fear would likely have never happened except in remote places.

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2 hours ago, Burning Man said:

Disagree.  I think the orange smeg would have fired her on the spot.  And that's OK, it would have opened pandora's box.  Had she come out publicly and forcefully saying the POTUS is ignoring the science and deliberately killing people.... all hell would have broken loose.  And I believe things would have changed quickly because he IS a coward and needs to be liked.  If the media were and even his allies were saying WTF 24/7.  It would have changed and people would be alive today.

Edit to add.... I'm not a fan of Faucci for the exact same reason.  He kept silent and mostly toed the party line when the entire gov't science team from the WH, NIH, CDC, etc should have been in open and vocal revolt.  I think Biden made a mistake keeping him on because of that unwillingness to buck the POTUS.

Do you think TFG would've hired someone capable after firing Fauci? No, Fauci, and probably Dr Birx, knew they had to stay their and serve two masters, President and pandemic mitigation, to improve the pandemic response. A TFG sycophant would've been even worse in those positions.

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It's only fair to recognize that Birx was in a tough spot. She was no Gary Cooper, but she stood up to the misinformers a few times, I remember, and she managed to ride it out. Good for her.

She's got some class; she was a grownup in that room, IMO.

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8 hours ago, Burning Man said:

One thing I've been pondering lately is if there is any possibility that criminal or civil charges could be brought against tfg for the number of dead and how he handled the pandemic.  He even admitted that he specifically withheld info from the public.  More and more is coming to light that many if not most of his actions were deliberate with knowledge of the outcome and he still chose to go down that path anyway.  IOW, it wasn't just incompetence.  There are more and more instances where he used the pandemic for political gain, withheld aid and information from some states while giving preference to others, etc.  I think it amounts to Negligent homicide and dereliction of duty on the low end of the scale and mass murder/crimes against humanity/genocide on the extreme end.  I believe you could make a logical argument either way or somewhere in the middle. 

@Sol Rosenberg, Any thoughts on this from a legal perspective.  Is he always shielded by immunity for things he did while in office?  I don't know how this works with a former guy.

If that were to happen, I would expect it via the civil court process, not criminal. Lower burden of proof. That would be one hell of a class action….

Re Dr. Birx, she can now enjoy being doxxed and having local GOP pep rallies at her house, and her family threatened. 

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36 minutes ago, jocal505 said:

It's only fair to recognize that Birx was in a tough spot. She was no Gary Cooper, but she stood up to the misinformers a few times, I remember, and she managed to ride it out. Good for her.

She's got some class; she was a grownup in that room, IMO.

Earth to Joe:

Her duty was owed to us. She failed us. Her good manners were civil but classy?

Hardly. 

She knew better and said nothing. 

The scarves thing was a nice touch but 130K died. 

Don't give up that day job Joe.

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10 hours ago, Leeroy Jenkins said:

Okay now what? Will anything happen as a result of her testimony?  To her? To Trump?  What's the point of this thread?  Or the three others like this you start every day? 

What a way to spend time.  Jeez. 

And yet here you are.....

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9 hours ago, Burning Man said:

One thing I've been pondering lately is if there is any possibility that criminal or civil charges could be brought against tfg for the number of dead and how he handled the pandemic.  He even admitted that he specifically withheld info from the public.  More and more is coming to light that many if not most of his actions were deliberate with knowledge of the outcome and he still chose to go down that path anyway.  IOW, it wasn't just incompetence.  There are more and more instances where he used the pandemic for political gain, withheld aid and information from some states while giving preference to others, etc.  I think it amounts to Negligent homicide and dereliction of duty on the low end of the scale and mass murder/crimes against humanity/genocide on the extreme end.  I believe you could make a logical argument either way or somewhere in the middle. 

@Sol Rosenberg, Any thoughts on this from a legal perspective.  Is he always shielded by immunity for things he did while in office?  I don't know how this works with a former guy.

Nah, he was the CIC and someone has to make the decisions. Good or bad the US had elected him to make those decisions and everyone else who mattered seems to have gone along with whatever the avatar of the will of the people decided.

Most every sane person knew what would happen in a crisis with the moran at the helm. Unpredictable, floundering, half-baked decisions keeping only his self interest in mind and still the US said sure, that's what we want. 

You don't get to sue the POTUS for leading the country in times of trouble to the best of his abilities. 

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11 minutes ago, VhmSays said:

Nah, he was the CIC and someone has to make the decisions. Good or bad the US had elected him to make those decisions and everyone else who mattered seems to have gone along with whatever the avatar of the will of the people decided.

Most every sane person knew what would happen in a crisis with the moran at the helm. Unpredictable, floundering, half-baked decisions keeping only his self interest in mind and still the US said sure, that's what we want. 

You don't get to sue the POTUS for leading the country in times of trouble to the best of his abilities. 

Birx is saying that it wasn’t to the best of his abilities, he was leading to the best interest of his re-election campaign.

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14 hours ago, badlatitude said:

Let's not forget it was Dr Deborah Birx who sat there and didn't blink an eye when Trump was recommending Bleach and UV light for covid.

Trump's White House ignored advice on COVID-19 that could've saved over 130,000 lives, Birx said

Trump's COVID-19 response led to many preventable deaths, Deborah Birx told House lawmakers. 
Over 130,000 lives could've been saved if Trump's White House followed the science, she said. 
Birx also testified that the 2020 election distracted Trump from the pandemic. 

Dr. Deborah Birx, the former White House COVID-19 response coordinator, in testimony to the House select subcommittee on the coronavirus crisis said that former President Donald Trump's approach to the pandemic led to a massive number of preventable deaths. 

"No," Birx said when asked if Trump did everything in his power to curb the spread and save lives, per excerpts of her testimony released by the committee on Tuesday. 

"And I've said that to the White House in general, and I believe I was very clear to the president in specifics of what I needed him to do," she added. 

Birx, who testified before the committee in mid-October, said that over 130,000 lives could've been saved in the early stages of the pandemic had Trump's White House adhered to the science and pushed for measures advocated by experts.
......................................

Read more: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trumps-white-house-ignored-advice-on-covid-19-that-couldve-saved-over-130000-lives-birx-said/ar-AAPYXRH  
 

In other news, she told the White Star Line to buy radar sets or else their ships would hit icebergs.

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14 hours ago, badlatitude said:

Let's not forget it was Dr Deborah Birx who sat there and didn't blink an eye when Trump was recommending Bleach and UV light for covid.

Trump's White House ignored advice on COVID-19 that could've saved over 130,000 lives, Birx said

Trump's COVID-19 response led to many preventable deaths, Deborah Birx told House lawmakers. 
Over 130,000 lives could've been saved if Trump's White House followed the science, she said. 
Birx also testified that the 2020 election distracted Trump from the pandemic. 

Dr. Deborah Birx, the former White House COVID-19 response coordinator, in testimony to the House select subcommittee on the coronavirus crisis said that former President Donald Trump's approach to the pandemic led to a massive number of preventable deaths. 

"No," Birx said when asked if Trump did everything in his power to curb the spread and save lives, per excerpts of her testimony released by the committee on Tuesday. 

"And I've said that to the White House in general, and I believe I was very clear to the president in specifics of what I needed him to do," she added. 

Birx, who testified before the committee in mid-October, said that over 130,000 lives could've been saved in the early stages of the pandemic had Trump's White House adhered to the science and pushed for measures advocated by experts.
......................................

Read more: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trumps-white-house-ignored-advice-on-covid-19-that-couldve-saved-over-130000-lives-birx-said/ar-AAPYXRH  
 

Imagine the death toll if we listened to Fauci

“ Fauci and other top health officials gave a closed-door briefing to a group of senators. After the Jan. 24 briefing, Fauci told a reporter with S&P Globalthat restricting travel was "not a good idea at this time." Fauci said it "would create a lot of disruption, economically and otherwise, and it wouldn't necessarily have a positive effect.  Fauci left the briefing, he said "it’s not something that I think we're even considering."

 "Those kinds of masks that you just get in a store don't keep the virus out. “

“ But the one thing historically people need to realize is that, even if there is some asymptomatic transmission, in all the history of respiratory-born viruses of any type, asymptomatic transmission has never been the driver of outbreaks. The driver of outbreaks is always a symptomatic person. Even if there's a rare asymptomatic person that might transmit, an epidemic is not driven by asymptomatic carriers."

 

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27 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

Birx is saying that it wasn’t to the best of his abilities, he was leading to the best interest of his re-election campaign.

That's her version and it's a bit late don't you think? I bet a lot of others who were in high positions say otherwise as will the Rs in the House and Senate. So an opinion by someone who followed orders but could have voiced those opinions at the time and maybe saved 130000 against opinions by those who consider him the best POTUS ever.

If more people had stood up to him instead of keeping quiet thinking they would help by going along his ride wouldn't have been so easy. 

I get that those quite folks are a part of the reason the "extra votes" were not found and 1/6 failed but a few more Lieutenant Colonel Alexander Vindmans would have been awesome.

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4 minutes ago, VhmSays said:

That's her version and it's a bit late don't you think? I bet a lot of others who were in high positions say otherwise as will the Rs in the House and Senate. So an opinion by someone who followed orders but could have voiced those opinions at the time and maybe saved 130000 against opinions by those who consider him the best POTUS ever.

If more people had stood up to him instead of keeping quiet thinking they would help by going along his ride wouldn't have been so easy. 

I get that those quite folks are a part of the reason the "extra votes" were not found and 1/6 failed but a few more Lieutenant Colonel Alexander Vindmans would have been awesome.

Every person in the room has their version, we just happen to be talking about hers. The only one who stood up to Him was Fauci and now he has the Legion of Morons after him full time. Yeah, hers is more than a bit late. 

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13 minutes ago, slug zitski said:

Imagine the death toll if we listened to Fauci

“ Fauci and other top health officials gave a closed-door briefing to a group of senators. After the Jan. 24 briefing, Fauci told a reporter with S&P Globalthat restricting travel was "not a good idea at this time." Fauci said it "would create a lot of disruption, economically and otherwise, and it wouldn't necessarily have a positive effect.  Fauci left the briefing, he said "it’s not something that I think we're even considering."

 "Those kinds of masks that you just get in a store don't keep the virus out. “

“ But the one thing historically people need to realize is that, even if there is some asymptomatic transmission, in all the history of respiratory-born viruses of any type, asymptomatic transmission has never been the driver of outbreaks. The driver of outbreaks is always a symptomatic person. Even if there's a rare asymptomatic person that might transmit, an epidemic is not driven by asymptomatic carriers."

 

I guess the question becomes is Fauci a scientist or is Fauci a politician? I think he was a scientist, until Trump made him juggle his credentials to react to Trump health decisions, Trump had no business making. If Fauci and the CDC had been left alone, I believe a completely different approach would have been seen. The problem, was Trump wanted to be the front and central character of the pandemic, in Trump's view, it was key to his reelection. What it did was put medicine on the firing line while Trump advisers had there go at keying the message to what Trump wanted done. 

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37 minutes ago, slug zitski said:

Imagine the death toll if we listened to Fauci

“ Fauci and other top health officials gave a closed-door briefing to a group of senators. After the Jan. 24 briefing, Fauci told a reporter with S&P Globalthat restricting travel was "not a good idea at this time." Fauci said it "would create a lot of disruption, economically and otherwise, and it wouldn't necessarily have a positive effect.  Fauci left the briefing, he said "it’s not something that I think we're even considering."

 "Those kinds of masks that you just get in a store don't keep the virus out. “

“ But the one thing historically people need to realize is that, even if there is some asymptomatic transmission, in all the history of respiratory-born viruses of any type, asymptomatic transmission has never been the driver of outbreaks. The driver of outbreaks is always a symptomatic person. Even if there's a rare asymptomatic person that might transmit, an epidemic is not driven by asymptomatic carriers."

 

Still spreading the lies about the hated Dr Fauci, because he dissed your boy Rand Paul of the cute tousled hair do? Or is it because the brainwashers hate Fauci all the way back to when he told Reagan that no, AIDs was not God's punishment on gays?

- DSK

 

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13 minutes ago, badlatitude said:

I guess the question becomes is Fauci a scientist or is Fauci a politician? I think he was a scientist, until Trump made him juggle his credentials to react to Trump health decisions, Trump had no business making. If Fauci and the CDC had been left alone, I believe a completely different approach would have been seen. The problem, was Trump wanted to be the front and central character of the pandemic, in Trump's view, it was key to his reelection. What it did was put medicine on the firing line while Trump advisers had there go at keying the message to what Trump wanted done. 

I think that you will find that the death rate from Covid is similar for all regions 

look at Europe .. similar outcome , variety of policies 

As of week 2021-41, 783 762 deaths have been reported in the EU/EEA: Italy (131 541), France (117 265), Germany (94 628), Spain (87 030), Poland (76 115), Romania (42 042), Czechia (30 554), Hungary (30 402), Belgium (25 782), Bulgaria (22 274), Netherlands (18 248), Portugal (18 100), Greece (15 375), Sweden (14 963), Slovakia (12 854), Austria (10 932), Croatia (8 907), Lithuania (5 489), Ireland (5 306), Slovenia (4 995), Latvia (2 890), Denmark (2 688), Estonia (1 429), Finland (1 116), Norway (884), Luxembourg (839), Cyprus (562), Malta (459), Liechtenstein (60) and Iceland (33).

 

Playing politics doesn’t   work 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, slug zitski said:

I think that you will find that the death rate from Covid is similar for all regions 

look at Europe .. similar outcome , variety of policies 

As of week 2021-41, 783 762 deaths have been reported in the EU/EEA: Italy (131 541), France (117 265), Germany (94 628), Spain (87 030), Poland (76 115), Romania (42 042), Czechia (30 554), Hungary (30 402), Belgium (25 782), Bulgaria (22 274), Netherlands (18 248), Portugal (18 100), Greece (15 375), Sweden (14 963), Slovakia (12 854), Austria (10 932), Croatia (8 907), Lithuania (5 489), Ireland (5 306), Slovenia (4 995), Latvia (2 890), Denmark (2 688), Estonia (1 429), Finland (1 116), Norway (884), Luxembourg (839), Cyprus (562), Malta (459), Liechtenstein (60) and Iceland (33).

 

Playing politics doesn’t   work 

 

 

I couldn't agree more.

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2 hours ago, slug zitski said:

I think that you will find that the death rate from Covid is similar for all regions 

...

I think you will find there is a very definite difference in regions and states.

For example, some red state counties have death rates ~500 per 100,000. Others less than 50 per 100,000 ie. less than a tenth. Guess where the high death rate counties tend to be clustered.

Compare the US death rate with Canada.

You'll also find... if you actually look, instead of parroting RWNJ fantasy... that the fatality rate goes up very significantly when hospitals are overloaded.

- DSK

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13 hours ago, Burning Man said:

My first instinct is that her revelation is a bit late.  Had she said it at the time, she might have saved some of those 130K.  Sounds like she chose her career over doing her job or blowing the whistle.

 

Nah, she would have just gotten fired. Of course, that may have saved a bit of her integrity.

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18 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

I think you will find there is a very definite difference in regions and states.

For example, some red state counties have death rates ~500 per 100,000. Others less than 50 per 100,000 ie. less than a tenth. Guess where the high death rate counties tend to be clustered.

Compare the US death rate with Canada.

You'll also find... if you actually look, instead of parroting RWNJ fantasy... that the fatality rate goes up very significantly when hospitals are overloaded.

- DSK

Exactly. The rates are radically different in different locations. Hell, compare the US death rate to Aus. 

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2 hours ago, slug zitski said:

I think that you will find that the death rate from Covid is similar for all regions 

look at Europe .. similar outcome , variety of policies 

As of week 2021-41, 783 762 deaths have been reported in the EU/EEA: Italy (131 541), France (117 265), Germany (94 628), Spain (87 030), Poland (76 115), Romania (42 042), Czechia (30 554), Hungary (30 402), Belgium (25 782), Bulgaria (22 274), Netherlands (18 248), Portugal (18 100), Greece (15 375), Sweden (14 963), Slovakia (12 854), Austria (10 932), Croatia (8 907), Lithuania (5 489), Ireland (5 306), Slovenia (4 995), Latvia (2 890), Denmark (2 688), Estonia (1 429), Finland (1 116), Norway (884), Luxembourg (839), Cyprus (562), Malta (459), Liechtenstein (60) and Iceland (33).

 

Playing politics doesn’t   work 

 

 

To some, your argument might make sense.  Look at the US as a region and compare it to the EU.

Except, the US population is roughly 333,558,957 and the EU population is roughly 451,453,050.  That's a difference of 117,894,093. 

Put another way, the population of the EU is roughly 35% higher than the US. And, our total numbers of deaths is comparable.

That's apples and aardvarks.

It's not even fucking close.

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Some say Fauci and Birx were playing politics.

Others say they were staying in the room to help fight a pandemic.

Very few of the haters have considered who would've replaced either had they quit or been fired. Having TFG or his sycophants choose a fanatic to do those jobs and that 130k you're bleating about would've been small change.

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Just now, Ncik said:

Some say Fauci and Birx were playing politics.

Others say they were staying in the room to help fight a pandemic.

Very few of the haters have considered who would've replaced either had they quit or been fired. Having TFG or his sycophants choose a fanatic to do those jobs and that 130k you're bleating about would've been small change.

Imagine Scott Atlas in charge.

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11 hours ago, Blue Crab said:

Earth to Joe:

Her duty was owed to us. She failed us. Her good manners were civil but classy?

Hardly. 

She knew better and said nothing. 

The scarves thing was a nice touch but 130K died. 

Don't give up that day job Joe.

Maybe someone should have asked her some questions in an airport?

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To be fair to Birx, she didn’t elect Trump, the American people did. And they got exactly what they voted for - an incompetent dangerous, narcissist with a “basket of deplorables” following him blindly, willing to make life intolerable for anyone who speaks out against him. Can’t blame Birx that Trump wouldn’t follow scientific advice. Blame those who put him in charge. He’s gone on to destroy the electoral process enabled by a GOP who are afraid to stand up to him. Laying blame at Birx’s door is unfair. He was the elected commander in chief who was unwilling or incapable of taking advice. She had no authority to do anything. If her advice was not taken she had no option but to suck it up.  Perhaps she felt she could do more by staying on than by resigning. Falling on her sword would not have mattered a jot to Trump. He had openly made a fool of himself anyway with his bleach and UV bullshit and would only have appointed a sycophant to replace her that would certainly have been worse. 

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All the what ifs aside, we need people of integrity to use it or they're not helpful to us. She was up at the plate and took three called strikes on national tv almost everyday answering questions presented appropriately.

She lied.  

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18 hours ago, Bus Driver said:

To some, your argument might make sense.  Look at the US as a region and compare it to the EU.

Except, the US population is roughly 333,558,957 and the EU population is roughly 451,453,050.  That's a difference of 117,894,093. 

Put another way, the population of the EU is roughly 35% higher than the US. And, our total numbers of deaths is comparable.

That's apples and aardvarks.

It's not even fucking close.

Death rates follow the rate of obesity . 
the US got hit harder because its population is in poor health 

general Covid policy in both Europe and the US were similar 

I was in both Europe and the US during the pandemic , I saw firsthand 

you were in your basement and  like to play politics with Covid 

you are the problem 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN2AW1X0

 

 

 

 

05B835FF-7E5D-46FA-B64E-4B45DC5DAC52.png

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So covid is not all bad. After the initial wave of people killed by purposeful misinformation by TFG, most of the deaths are the ignorant, the uber ill, and fatsos who could have avoided it by more disciplined eating.

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13 minutes ago, slug zitski said:

Death rates follow the rate of obesity . 
the US got hit harder because its population is in poor health 

general Covid policy in both Europe and the US were similar 

I was in both Europe and the US during the pandemic , I saw firsthand 

you were in your basement and  like to play politics with Covid 

you are the problem 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN2AW1X0

 

 

 

 

05B835FF-7E5D-46FA-B64E-4B45DC5DAC52.png

Go fuck yourself, slug.  You tried to suggest a comparison of the EU and US is valid.

Your comparison mentioned nothing of obesity.  Now, you are trying to salvage some sort of point.

Why not compare the cases in NYC with those in the state of Virginia, as those are comparably sized populations?

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Just now, Bus Driver said:

Go fuck yourself, slug.  You tried to suggest a comparison of the EU and US is valid.

Your comparison mentioned nothing of obesity.  Now, you are trying to salvage some sort of point.

Why not compare the cases in NYC with those in the state of Virginia, as those are comparably sized populations?

Policy between the us and Europe were similar

the end results were similar 

I find no policy fault 

Ill leave basement dwelling foul mouth knuckle draggers like you to make political statements

 

 

 

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12 hours ago, Ncik said:

Some say Fauci and Birx were playing politics.

Others say they were staying in the room to help fight a pandemic.

Very few of the haters have considered who would've replaced either had they quit or been fired. Having TFG or his sycophants choose a fanatic to do those jobs and that 130k you're bleating about would've been small change.

In the long run that might have been better. Any number of "stay in the room" people made Trump look far better than he was.

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44 minutes ago, slug zitski said:

Policy between the us and Europe were similar

the end results were similar 

I find no policy fault 

Ill leave basement dwelling foul mouth knuckle draggers like you to make political statements

How many EU leaders acknowledged having been informed if the lethality of the virus and chose to lie to citizens?

How many EU leaders advocated silly ideas like injections of disinfectant and shining UV light?

A public health emergency was hijacked and politicized by the GOP.

Those sound like substantial differences in how countries responded to the pandemic.  The death toll/capita bears out who handled it better.

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53 minutes ago, slug zitski said:

Policy between the us and Europe were similar

the end results were similar 

Absolutely not true . . . 

The facts say otherwise . . 

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1 hour ago, Bus Driver said:

How many EU leaders acknowledged having been informed if the lethality of the virus and chose to lie to citizens?

How many EU leaders advocated silly ideas like injections of disinfectant and shining UV light?

A public health emergency was hijacked and politicized by the GOP.

Those sound like substantial differences in how countries responded to the pandemic.  The death toll/capita bears out who handled it better.

 

1F5F96D1-FC55-438A-899E-3B01DF564B52.png

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2 hours ago, slug zitski said:

Death rates follow the rate of obesity . 
the US got hit harder because its population is in poor health 

general Covid policy in both Europe and the US were similar 

I was in both Europe and the US during the pandemic , I saw firsthand 

you were in your basement and  like to play politics with Covid 

you are the problem 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN2AW1X0

 

 

 

 

05B835FF-7E5D-46FA-B64E-4B45DC5DAC52.png

So how did Nauru do?

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1 hour ago, Bus Driver said:

How many EU leaders acknowledged having been informed if the lethality of the virus and chose to lie to citizens?

How many EU leaders advocated silly ideas like injections of disinfectant and shining UV light?

A public health emergency was hijacked and politicized by the GOP.

Those sound like substantial differences in how countries responded to the pandemic.  The death toll/capita bears out who handled it better.

How many leaders mocked people with masks?  The list goes on.

His actions were nowhere near those of a leader with a goal of public safety.

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23 minutes ago, Mike G said:

How many leaders mocked people with masks?  The list goes on.

His actions were nowhere near those of a leader with a goal of public safety.

But Trump owns WAY-Y more libs than those other leaders. Those other leaders are total pussies compared to Great Trump

- DSK

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1 hour ago, slug zitski said:

 

1F5F96D1-FC55-438A-899E-3B01DF564B52.png

From the article you mention -

"The findings, published in the peer-reviewed journal Advances in Therapy, were based on five days of 20-minute treatments with ultraviolet A (UVA) light using a catheter inserted into the patients' tracheas. Patients were followed for 30 days. The findings were based on four patients; the fifth patient had no detectable levels of SARS-CoV-2 at the study outset."

Hardly a robust study. 

And, this was published in July.  Shirley this team of researchers would be following up a 20 day study with something more, and published their finding, in the intervening 100+ days, right?

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Just now, Bus Driver said:

From the article you mention -

"The findings, published in the peer-reviewed journal Advances in Therapy, were based on five days of 20-minute treatments with ultraviolet A (UVA) light using a catheter inserted into the patients' tracheas. Patients were followed for 30 days. The findings were based on four patients; the fifth patient had no detectable levels of SARS-CoV-2 at the study outset."

Hardly a robust study. 

And, this was published in July.  Shirley this team of researchers would be following up a 20 day study with something more, and published their finding, in the intervening 100+ days, right?

 

299EF3A6-F338-417D-A284-FAD10D819C8D.png

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4 minutes ago, slug zitski said:

 

299EF3A6-F338-417D-A284-FAD10D819C8D.png

Oh, boy.  Something from nearly 20 years ago. 

If it were legit, where are the follow-up investigations showing the efficacy?

You DO know that is how science works, right?

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Quote

I find no policy fault 

Of course you don't.   Of course NOTHING GOOD WOULD COME if we had a unified approach to social distancing and mask wearing mandates, showing how much we care for other people.    Fuck you.

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On 10/28/2021 at 5:23 AM, kent_island_sailor said:
On 10/27/2021 at 5:02 PM, Ncik said:

Some say Fauci and Birx were playing politics.

Others say they were staying in the room to help fight a pandemic.

Very few of the haters have considered who would've replaced either had they quit or been fired. Having TFG or his sycophants choose a fanatic to do those jobs and that 130k you're bleating about would've been small change.

In the long run that might have been better. Any number of "stay in the room" people made Trump look far better than he was.

Yep, that was my whole point.  I think if his circle of Science advisors and the CDC, NIH, etc all said "fuck you, I'm not doing that" publically - TFG would have been in a corner.  Firing them would have made his situation worse.  

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2 minutes ago, Burning Man said:

Yep, that was my whole point.  I think if his circle of Science advisors and the CDC, NIH, etc all said "fuck you, I'm not doing that" publically - TFG would have been in a corner.  Firing them would have made his situation worse.  

Maybe.  Maybe not.

I believe he would've hired someone like the MyPillow guy or those "Frontline Doctors".  And, his supporters would've cheered him on.

God knows what damage they could've done.

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21 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

Maybe.  Maybe not.

I believe he would've hired someone like the MyPillow guy or those "Frontline Doctors".  And, his supporters would've cheered him on.

God knows what damage they could've done.

I get that they can cause more damage, and that would have sucked.

But tfg played the game where he's not accountable.  Now the issue is on Bix.

She should have resigned.  He then owns the new replacement, AND the choices made.

He's very slippery, and not being held accountable for his  decisions is how he stays slippery.

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1 minute ago, Mike G said:

I get that they can cause more damage, and that would have sucked.

But tfg played the game where he's not accountable.  Now the issue is on Bix.

She should have resigned.  He then owns the new replacement, AND the choices made.

He's very slippery, and not being held accountable for his  decisions is how he stays slippery.

No argument she screwed up and no argument he is slippery as eel shit.

My only point is a mass resignation of those folks would not necessarily have been a good thing.

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On 10/27/2021 at 10:43 AM, Bus Driver said:

To some, your argument might make sense.  Look at the US as a region and compare it to the EU.

Except, the US population is roughly 333,558,957 and the EU population is roughly 451,453,050.  That's a difference of 117,894,093. 

Put another way, the population of the EU is roughly 35% higher than the US. And, our total numbers of deaths is comparable.

That's apples and aardvarks.

It's not even fucking close.

When you look at the comparative EU vs. USA statistics, you find that the 130,000 excess USA death's Birx claims is well supported If we'd just been as good as the EU on average.  

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Really, while I'm at it:  What is this "finds her testicles" thing?  Is Mr. Latitude still in high school?  

I'm quite sure that Birx doesn't have any to find, hasn't gone looking for them and the missing male gonads were never what she actually needed to do the right thing. 

Finding her female gonads might have been somewhat helpful I suppose, but more likely her finding her moral and ethical center would have been what we all needed.

Or the pee-pee tape.

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51 minutes ago, Mike G said:

I get that they can cause more damage, and that would have sucked.

But tfg played the game where he's not accountable.  Now the issue is on Bix.

She should have resigned.  He then owns the new replacement, AND the choices made.

He's very slippery, and not being held accountable for his  decisions is how he stays slippery.

I'm surprised Fauci didn't resign, and immediately get hired by one of the major networks where he could still spread his advice and slam TFG in a nightly segment.  Left to his own devices, Trump would still claim there were only 15 cases...  Anyone with more than a single neuron could look at the numbers and take proper precautions.  Why so many didn't is beyond my capability of understanding.  

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3 hours ago, kent_island_sailor said:

Where this breaks down is assuming that Republicans don't want to die for the cause. From my limited sample size, I can say they actually are fine with being dead if they can make a Democrat look bad somehow in the process.

^ this ^

And when Trump was first elected, we were saying "A Trump supporter is happy to have Trump shitting on his face, as long as there is a Democrat nearby who has to smell it."

And it went downhill from there

- DSK

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8 hours ago, Bus Driver said:

No argument she screwed up and no argument he is slippery as eel shit.

My only point is a mass resignation of those folks would not necessarily have been a good thing.

I'm not sure that it could have made things worse

 

A mass resignation may have flipped those on the edges, got them thinking.

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Rational people at that point were doing what they had to do. Only if the entire political structure would have resigned would it have made any difference, and at that point, the battle lines were drawn. Trumpaloons were ready, willing, and able to die in defence of madness and denial of science. I think that was actually a good cleansing of the gene pool, but too bad about the collateral damage.

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3 minutes ago, 00seven said:

??

You really don't get that . . . ??? 

that the anti-vaxxers are endangering all of us ?? 

and that our families have suffered for it ?? 

What is wrong with y'all ?? 

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10 hours ago, Ease the sheet. said:

I'm not sure that it could have made things worse

 

A mass resignation may have flipped those on the edges, got them thinking.

Listen to yourself! Trump and his circle of buttkissers, "thinking"?!?!?

Really?

And yes, it could have been a LOT worse.

- DSK

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On 10/28/2021 at 10:23 PM, kent_island_sailor said:

In the long run that might have been better. Any number of "stay in the room" people made Trump look far better than he was.

Only to the idiots.

Fauci is hated by Trumptards for openly mocking and rebutting TFG at press conferences. This whole blaming of Dr Birx and Fauci is just more of the same hatred.

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On 10/30/2021 at 2:18 AM, Burning Man said:

Yep, that was my whole point.  I think if his circle of Science advisors and the CDC, NIH, etc all said "fuck you, I'm not doing that" publically - TFG would have been in a corner.  Firing them would have made his situation worse.  

That's a lot of people to corall into a coherent strike, some of whom would be Trumptards...all while trying to manage a raging pandemic. Hard to roll out information to the public without a budget.

Rebuttals of TFGs stupid statements and following the path that the science was dictating were the only meaningful approaches.

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On 10/30/2021 at 3:42 AM, Cal20sailor said:

I'm surprised Fauci didn't resign, and immediately get hired by one of the major networks where he could still spread his advice and slam TFG in a nightly segment.  Left to his own devices, Trump would still claim there were only 15 cases...  Anyone with more than a single neuron could look at the numbers and take proper precautions.  Why so many didn't is beyond my capability of understanding.  

How is that any different to what actually happened, apart from Fauci still being in the room?

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On 10/30/2021 at 3:06 PM, Ease the sheet. said:

I meant the citizens.....

 

 

The ones who denied they had Covid as they died and called their nurses liars?  Those citizens?

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2 hours ago, Ncik said:

How is that any different to what actually happened, apart from Fauci still being in the room?

Are you serious?  Trump., your asshole worship, would have given him a cute name, Fake Fauci, I am sure was considered.  Unbridled, Trump would have done anything for re-election.

You worship a God that shits his pants uncontrollably.

You go girl!

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