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Red meat.....

https://www.barrons.com/articles/tax-proposals-democrats-spending-bill-51635293930?siteid=yhoof2

Raising corporate taxes is raising taxes on every consumer. Taxed for earning money, then taxed for spending it......

And if anyone thinks these new taxes will only effect "the rich", think again. One way or another this spending spree does not pay for itself or cost nothing.

As I have said numerous times in the past, they want to fund new programs? Then fund them by eliminating pork, wasteful spending and redundancies.

Our government is broken!

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Corporations give their profits to shareholders instead of funding government, even when they are subsidized by government.  Taxing the profits of rich corporations and individuals makes a lot of sens

Er, what would be wrong with doing all the above?  Raise corporate profit taxes, close tax loopholes (essentially remove tax credits that enable companies like Amazon to record 0 profit), eliminate co

Libertarians think they are the Liberty Mutual of civilization:  Only pay for what you need.   edit: e pluribus anus  

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Right.  That's it, I am the dumb one.
Now how about you act like an adult and discuss this intelligently?
Are you capable of that?

Why is it the left think we run the US on a shoestring/bare bones and that absolutely nothing can be cut?

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5 minutes ago, quod umbra said:

Right.  That's it, I am the dumb one.
Now how about you act like an adult and discuss this intelligently?
Are you capable of that?

Why is it the left think we run the US on a shoestring/bare bones and that absolutely nothing can be cut?

No one thinks that, but since you obviously want to play straw man:

 

Why on the other hand do red states feel blue states should pay for everything, and that corporations and the wealthy shouldn't pay for anything at all?

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9 minutes ago, quod umbra said:

Right.  That's it, I am the dumb one.
Now how about you act like an adult and discuss this intelligently?
Are you capable of that?

Why is it the left think we run the US on a shoestring/bare bones and that absolutely nothing can be cut?

How about you take a look at reality?

Spend less?

Fantasy fucking land must be nice this time of year.

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1 minute ago, Remodel said:

No one thinks that, but since you obviously want to play straw man:

 

Why on the other hand do red states feel blue states should pay for everything, and that corporations and the wealthy shouldn't pay for anything at all?

Because red states do all the lifting.

Just ask them

 

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1 hour ago, Ease the sheet. said:

How about you take a look at reality?

Spend less?

Fantasy fucking land must be nice this time of year.

Right. Cost of government shall not be infringed.

Got it.

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44 minutes ago, quod umbra said:

Right. Cost of government shall not be infringed.

Got it.

Red states couldnt even let go of some old military installations. Wake us when you’re serious.

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3 hours ago, quod umbra said:

Red meat.....

https://www.barrons.com/articles/tax-proposals-democrats-spending-bill-51635293930?siteid=yhoof2

Raising corporate taxes is raising taxes on every consumer. Taxed for earning money, then taxed for spending it......

And if anyone thinks these new taxes will only effect "the rich", think again. One way or another this spending spree does not pay for itself or cost nothing.

As I have said numerous times in the past, they want to fund new programs? Then fund them by eliminating pork, wasteful spending and redundancies.

Our government is broken!

Yah , you can’t  tax your to prosperity 

better to rationalize regulations and use policy to make small business more competitive 

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14 minutes ago, slug zitski said:

Yah , you can’t  tax your to prosperity 

better to rationalize regulations and use policy to make small business more competitive 

GRU needs better English language skills, for their trolls.

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3 hours ago, quod umbra said:

Our government is broken!

You mean it's broke - from cutting taxes, then starting wars to keep the defense contractors (their donors) fat and happy. 

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27 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:
4 hours ago, quod umbra said:

Right.  That's it, I am the dumb one.

By Jove, I think he's got it!

I think that was a rhetorical answer.

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2 hours ago, Raz'r said:

Red states couldnt even let go of some old military installations. Wake us when you’re serious.

I live in a very, very blue state. But thanks for the stimulating input.

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7 minutes ago, quod umbra said:

I live in a very, very blue state. But thanks for the stimulating input.

Great, then your state is contributing, congratulations. 

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Corporations give their profits to shareholders instead of funding government, even when they are subsidized by government.  Taxing the profits of rich corporations and individuals makes a lot of sense but it will be necessary to remove the myriad tax loopholes that enable them to hide profits and wealth.    

Taxpayers fund the education and infrastructure that makes educated and trained workers available to corporations.  We should expect something in return.

If you think reducing corporate taxes does anything other than increase profit, the 1980's called and they want their political/economic philosophy back.

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6 minutes ago, Rain Man said:

Corporations give their profits to shareholders instead of funding government, even when they are subsidized by government.  Taxing the profits of rich corporations and individuals makes a lot of sense but it will be necessary to remove the myriad tax loopholes that enable them to hide profits and wealth.    

Taxpayers fund the education and infrastructure that makes educated and trained workers available to corporations.  We should expect something in return.

If you think reducing corporate taxes does anything other than increase profit, the 1980's called and they want their political/economic philosophy back.

Corporate taxes come in a bunch of flavors. Some think that ALL of them taste horrible.

It's not just a way of generating revenue for the dadgum gubbermint, it's also a way of gently steering economic policy and business attitudes.

For example, corporations buy yachts. Was the money paid for that yacht knocked off the before-tax income? Or, conversely, how about if the corporation pays out education benefits for it's employees, should -that- get a tax deduction?

In the USA we have consistently stripped tax benefits that do anything except provide cushy lives for the upper corporate tier.  With the reduction in corporate tax rate, there is less reason to put money into ANY deductions but a lot of deductions such as science research have been knocked down down, too.

This is how the USA went from putting men on the moon to having bridges that collapse, and CEOs with their own personal space ships.

- DSK

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Reverse Trumps Billion Dollar spending spree from the last 4 years, and take back the tax breaks for Gazillionaires, and Corps., and there will be plenty of dough to take care of infrastructure, healthcare, family leave, and lots of other stuff.  

Why wasn't The Shadow bitching when Trump  broke the bank to help the wealthiest of the wealthy?  I only heard Crickets back then....

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Let me circle back to that for you, it's OUR money.

Now a question for you, the same question actually, why do you all want to raise taxes when cutting waste, redundancy and pork will get the job done?

I am amazed that you all fall for time after time.

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19 minutes ago, quod umbra said:

Let me circle back to that for you, it's OUR money.

Now a question for you, the same question actually, why do you all want to raise taxes when cutting waste, redundancy and pork will get the job done?

I am amazed that you all fall for time after time.

 

I am amazed that you weren't paying attention, when Trump increased the debt 3 times in 4 short years, and increased the overall debt by 30%?  Not a peep out of you when all this went down???

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21 minutes ago, quod umbra said:

Let me circle back to that for you, it's OUR money.

Now a question for you, the same question actually, why do you all want to raise taxes when cutting waste, redundancy and pork will get the job done?

I am amazed that you all fall for time after time.

So, where is the line item "waste" and "redundancy" and "pork"?

Just now, billy backstay said:

 

I am amazed that you weren't paying attention, when Trump increased the debt 3 times in 4 short years, and increased the overall debt by 30%?  Not a peep out of you when all this went down???

Of course not. QU is a "Dems=BAD!!" kinda guy, all the time, every time.

- DSK

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5 hours ago, slug zitski said:

Yah , you can’t  tax your to prosperity 

better to rationalize regulations and use policy to make small business more competitive 

I believe in making small businesses more competitive. One way to do that would be to remove all the subsidies given to large coporations.

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Just now, Steam Flyer said:

So, where is the line item "waste" and "redundancy" and "pork"?

Of course not. QU is a "Dems=BAD!!" kinda guy, all the time, every time.

- DSK

He's very adept a doggy-stlylin...

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1 hour ago, billy backstay said:

 

I am amazed that you weren't paying attention, when Trump increased the debt 3 times in 4 short years, and increased the overall debt by 30%?  Not a peep out of you when all this went down???

I'll bet if your plumber kept asking for more and more money, year in and year out you would be pissed. I would also suspect in the mortgage company kept increasing your payments year in and year out you would be apoplectic.
But when government and politicians do it, you defend them......

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Where to start? Let's start with Amazon.  Do you think it's fair that mega corporations pay such tiny tax bills on their income?
 

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/04/amazon-had-to-pay-federal-income-taxes-for-the-first-time-since-2016.html

"After two straight years of paying $0 in U.S. federal income tax, Amazon was on the hook for a $162 million bill in 2019, ... $162 million is still just a fraction of the $13.9 billion in pre-tax income Amazon reported for 2019 — roughly 1.2%,  Amazon also reported $280.5 billion in total revenue in 2019..,

In 2018, Amazon posted income of more than $11 billion, but the company paid $0 in federal taxes. Amazon actually received a federal tax refund of $129 million. That was a year after Amazon received a $137 million refund from the federal government for 2017."

 

Right now 140 countries have signed an agreement to provide for a minimum global tax of 15%. Read the article how it will benefit small business (i.e. those who don't hide their income in corporate offices in Ireland)

https://www.forbes.com/sites/rhettbuttle/2021/10/26/the-global-minimum-tax-agreement-why-it-matters-for-americas-small-businesses/?sh=4f82ad7933b5

 

 

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1 hour ago, quod umbra said:

I'll bet if your plumber kept asking for more and more money, year in and year out you would be pissed. I would also suspect in the mortgage company kept increasing your payments year in and year out you would be apoplectic.
But when government and politicians do it, you defend them......

 

Exactly what Trump did, were you asleep for 4 years?????????

Biden only wants to pay the bills that the FREE SPENDING to support Billionaires and Corp.'s, Trump and company ran up years ago.....???

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1 hour ago, quod umbra said:

I'll bet if your plumber kept asking for more and more money, year in and year out you would be pissed. I would also suspect in the mortgage company kept increasing your payments year in and year out you would be apoplectic.
But when government and politicians do it, you defend them......

Except that's a lie, like usual. Spending as a % of GDP, basically flat since 1950. Except for the Covid spending. Give it a year, will be back to 20%

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/FYONGDA188S

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“Donald Trump bashes Democrats' new billionaire tax and suggests he might flee the US, but he'll 'stick it out'”

More BS from TFG.

Please, pack up your shit and go already.

 

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11 minutes ago, jerseyguy said:

“Donald Trump bashes Democrats' new billionaire tax and suggests he might flee the US, but he'll 'stick it out'”

More BS from TFG.

Please, pack up your shit and go already.

 

He's just waiting for the indictments to drop. He has his bags packed, a case of Depends, a pound of Adderall, along with a Russian-English dictionary and an inflatable Ivanka doll.

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3 hours ago, quod umbra said:

Let me circle back to that for you, it's OUR money.

Now a question for you, the same question actually, why do you all want to raise taxes when cutting waste, redundancy and pork will get the job done?

I am amazed that you all fall for time after time.

Er, what would be wrong with doing all the above?  Raise corporate profit taxes, close tax loopholes (essentially remove tax credits that enable companies like Amazon to record 0 profit), eliminate corporate subsidies, lower taxes on small business, and cut waste, redundancy and pork?

Of course, you do realize that cutting waste, redundancy and pork means a huge cut to military budgets, right?

Maybe start here:

U.S. Navy destroyer spotted off coast of Nanaimo

These things are $7.5B each, and by all reports are nearly useless.  Waste?

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1 hour ago, Rain Man said:

Er, what would be wrong with doing all the above?  Raise corporate profit taxes, close tax loopholes (essentially remove tax credits that enable companies like Amazon to record 0 profit), eliminate corporate subsidies, lower taxes on small business, and cut waste, redundancy and pork?

Of course, you do realize that cutting waste, redundancy and pork means a huge cut to military budgets, right?

Maybe start here:

U.S. Navy destroyer spotted off coast of Nanaimo

These things are $7.5B each, and by all reports are nearly useless.  Waste?

Useless? Surely an f35 can land on it somewhere?

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9 minutes ago, Ease the sheet. said:

Useless? Surely an f35 can land on it somewhere?

 

Perhaps a tilt-rotor F22, but only in flat ass calm seas...   Not likely!!

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2 hours ago, Rain Man said:

Er, what would be wrong with doing all the above?  Raise corporate profit taxes, close tax loopholes (essentially remove tax credits that enable companies like Amazon to record 0 profit), eliminate corporate subsidies, lower taxes on small business, and cut waste, redundancy and pork?

Of course, you do realize that cutting waste, redundancy and pork means a huge cut to military budgets, right?

Maybe start here:

U.S. Navy destroyer spotted off coast of Nanaimo

These things are $7.5B each, and by all reports are nearly useless.  Waste?

The cost of being the worlds police, 

http://cdn.statcdn.com/Infographic/images/normal/9100.jpeg

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"Everyone" is already taxed. From a bottle of water, to a gallon of gasoline, to a car, used or new, to a house, to a piece of Verizon stock.... It's all taxed. It depends on what you buy, and how your accountant defines it that determines what you pay. We all pay tax the second we buy gasoline, or a bottle of water.... But some people can defer the taxes on the purchase of a car, a house, and especially a bit of stock....

 So if you make $17,000 a year, and have a car, a thirst for water, and a few dozen shares in Verizon.... You pay tax on the gas, the water, and probably not the Verizon. If you make $17,000,000 a year your accountant writes off the gasoline, the water and the Verizon stock as business expenses. (Not to mention his fees for freeing you of the burden of paying taxes)

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3 hours ago, Raz'r said:

Except that's a lie, like usual. Spending as a % of GDP, basically flat since 1950. Except for the Covid spending. Give it a year, will be back to 20%

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/FYONGDA188S

Yep, the reason that debt to GDP is getting away from us is all of those tax cuts that pay for themselves.

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What I can't believe is this topic gets trotted out, ripped to shreds, laid out in the desert with the bones picked clean and sometime later here it comes again. Like this time it will float. Belief me.

It never ends.

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7 hours ago, Gouvernail said:

EC4515DE-0B46-459A-B6EC-8250FAB9D6FD.jpeg

Amusing, but pretty stupid.  1M/1B = 0.1%  I wish the proposed increases were that small.  And taxing unrealized gains???  That's huge and very problematic.

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26 minutes ago, valis said:

  And taxing unrealized gains???  That's huge and very problematic.

Not particularly. Middle income folks been paying home property taxes for quite awhile now.

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51 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

Not particularly. Middle income folks been paying home property taxes for quite awhile now.

Property taxes are asset taxes, and in general are probably "worse" than a tax on gain -- realized or not. But I don't have the appetite for a discussion here about asset vs gain vs income tax policy -- I would need to bone up on the current plan details.  I do understand that the unrealized gains portion of the proposal seems to have been dropped.

My main point was that the 0.1% example in Gouv's post did not, shall we say, accurately reflect the magnitude of the proposed changes to the tax policy (a 3% - 7% increase for the top brackets, plus a big change in capital gains rates).  I'm not saying it's fair or unfair, just that it's a big change and will affect where and how people invest their wealth. 

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Why are the local and national GOPPERS, supposedly concerned about high taxes, 

so busy preventing the IRS from collecting what is owed ?? 

that extra trillion a year would eliminate deficits 

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Since I'm too lazy to research this "what is owed" claim, would someone care to enlighten me?  (This is a sincere request, not a rhetorical trick.) 

Are we talking about taxes on income and assets that aren't properly declared, or are these "owed" taxes "unpaid" because of existing tax policy that someone thinks shouldn't be the case?  If the former, then yes, by all means audit the offender and enforce the laws.  If the latter, then change the rules, but until then please don't call then "owed". 

Example of a "loophole";  I have avoided paying taxes on the sale of highly-appreciated stock by using the sale proceeds to invest in certain other businesses.  Some of those made money, some of those lost a bunch.  Some even provided jobs and valuable products or services to others.  I paid taxes on the eventual gains minus any losses.  I have also reduced my taxable income by making (quite large) charitable contributions.  I would have kept more money, even after taxes, by not making those charitable contributions, but I would have paid more taxes. Did I not pay "what was owed"?  

We are not obligated to arrange our finances so as to maximize the amount of tax owed.

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14 minutes ago, valis said:

Since I'm too lazy to research this

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/13/business/irs-tax-gap.html

in case you run into a pay wall . .  

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-treasury-irs/irs-chief-says-1-trillion-in-taxes-goes-uncollected-every-year-idUSKBN2C0255

In the US principled conservatives used to believe in paying what you owe in taxes . .  

now they defend the cheats 

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I read the Reuters piece.  But is this unpaid-but-owed amount mostly owed by billionaires (the ones targeted in the proposed tax changes)?  I heard, somewhere, that it was mostly small-fry: mostly people who work under the table.  The article also quoted the IRS Commissioner on "tax avoidance", which to me means legally not owed, and therefore not "uncollected".

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42 minutes ago, valis said:

I read the Reuters piece.  But is this unpaid-but-owed amount mostly owed by billionaires (the ones targeted in the proposed tax changes)?  I heard, somewhere, that it was mostly small-fry: mostly people who work under the table.  The article also quoted the IRS Commissioner on "tax avoidance", which to me means legally not owed, and therefore not "uncollected".

To me, the "collect what is owed" is of the same precision as "cut waste and fraud"

Yeah, of course it exists. 

It wouldn't hurt to up our audits of taxpayers or of gov't spending prograns, but neither will really move the needle.

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On 10/27/2021 at 11:17 AM, Jules said:

You mean it's broke - from cutting taxes, then starting wars to keep the defense contractors (their donors) fat and happy. 

 

Not a peep out of the righties over the last 4 years, when Trump raised the debt ceiling 3 times, and increased the overall debt by 30%.  Just crickets?  Until the letter D is on the White House, instead of R, then they scream bloody murder.....

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On 10/27/2021 at 7:01 PM, billy backstay said:

 

Exactly what Trump did, were you asleep for 4 years?????????

Biden only wants to pay the bills that the FREE SPENDING to support Billionaires and Corp.'s, Trump and company ran up years ago.....???

Oh I wasn't asleep.
Then again I also was not posting here.

Your last line is a flat out lie.

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41 minutes ago, quod umbra said:

Oh I wasn't asleep.
Then again I also was not posting here.

Your last line is a flat out lie.

 

Many smart economists have claimed with facts behind them, that much of the money Biden wants is to pay the bills, from the profligate spending and tax breaks from Herr Drumpf's 4 year reign of terror...

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44 minutes ago, quod umbra said:

Oh I wasn't asleep.
Then again I also was not posting here.

Your last line is a flat out lie.

It's an absolute truth. Biden hasn't yet had a budget passed. This is all the last congress' spend.

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3 hours ago, billy backstay said:

 

Many smart economists have claimed with facts behind them, that much of the money Biden wants is to pay the bills, from the profligate spending and tax breaks from Herr Drumpf's 4 year reign of error...

Four years of fucking up is hardly terror.

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7 hours ago, valis said:

Property taxes are asset taxes, and in general are probably "worse" than a tax on gain -- realized or not. But I don't have the appetite for a discussion here about asset vs gain vs income tax policy -- I would need to bone up on the current plan details.  I do understand that the unrealized gains portion of the proposal seems to have been dropped.

My main point was that the 0.1% example in Gouv's post did not, shall we say, accurately reflect the magnitude of the proposed changes to the tax policy (a 3% - 7% increase for the top brackets, plus a big change in capital gains rates).  I'm not saying it's fair or unfair, just that it's a big change and will affect where and how people invest their wealth. 

The current situation already affects how people invest their wealth.

The question is "does the current situation create a fair outcome?".

Of course, "fair" means different things to different people...

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35 minutes ago, Ease the sheet. said:

The current situation already affects how people invest their wealth.

The question is "does the current situation create a fair outcome?".

Of course, "fair" means different things to different people...

I can't disagree with any of that.  

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The solicitude of the local R-e-i-i-c-h for our corporate overlords is duly noted . . 

Dudes, they are in that club, and you are not

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9 hours ago, valis said:

I read the Reuters piece.

When a country gets to the point of being unable to collect taxes that are due . .  

you are talking about failed states 

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“Why do you rob banks”

”thats where the money is”

 

Assuming we want to pay for our spending, we will need to tax those with the assets.

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9 hours ago, AJ Oliver said:

"unable to collect taxes that are due . .  "

Neither you or that Reuters article have been able to been able to explain to me whether "due" refers to illegal tax-evasion or to legal avoidance.

 

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3 minutes ago, valis said:

Neither you or that Reuters article have been able to been able to explain to me whether "due" refers to illegal tax-evasion or to legal avoidance.

How about if you do your own homework ?? 

I gave you a solid source and you want more ?? 

How about if YOU provide a source ?? 

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17 hours ago, Raz'r said:

It's an absolute truth. Biden hasn't yet had a budget passed. This is all the last congress' spend.

Presidents don't pass budgets, Congresses do.

So then, we are trying to pay off the former administration's debts..... then why are we trying to pass the biggest social spending increase in history?

Gosh you are a gift.

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5 minutes ago, AJ Oliver said:

How about if you do your own homework ?? 

I gave you a solid source and you want more ?? 

How about if YOU provide a source ?? 

I asked a question.  You gave me a link to a Reuters article.  I read it, but it didn't answer the question.  Thanks anyway.

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24 minutes ago, valis said:

Neither you or that Reuters article have been able to been able to explain to me whether "due" refers to illegal tax-evasion or to legal avoidance.

 

Mostly the former - but it's assumed to be by ignorance than intention.

https://taxfoundation.org/biden-tax-compliance/

Some of the latter, again, the assumption is people are just doing it wrong, not trying to 'cheat'.

That's important because recovery costs are much higher if it's intentional vs accidental. 

 

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30 minutes ago, quod umbra said:

Presidents don't pass budgets, Congresses do.

So then, we are trying to pay off the former administration's debts..... then why are we trying to pass the biggest social spending increase in history?

Gosh you are a gift.

 

Why did Trump run up huge debts, via tax breaks for the wealthiest, and Corps., without dealing with the serious infrastructure and social needs that have been "kicked the can" for decades??

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41 minutes ago, quod umbra said:

How so?

If everyone pays say, 15% on earnings, with no deductions, is that not fairest?

Only the left could declare equal as regressive.

It's regressive because hamburgers and bluejeans cost the same for poor people and for millionaires.

Why should a head of household who cannot afford rent much less health care, have to shell out 15% of their limited income? Why should a guy who literally does not know how many $10+M estates he owns NOT have to pay more to support a socio-economic system that is benefiting him so greatly?

It used to be that the idea of progressive taxation was agreed upon almost universally to be fair. Now, after 40 years of propaganda that taxation of the wealthy is equivalent to hating them for their success, we have about 40% of the population who genuinely think the rich should be allowed to skate.

"Not paying tax makes me smart." -TFG

- DSK

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My beef with the arguments is that there seems to be a lot of "wealth shaming", and the deliberate conflating of legal avoidance with illegal evading.  Actual evasion should be prosecuted and collected.  If you don't like the avoidance rules, change the rules but don't claim it's illegal.  If you can't change the rules, change the politicians. If you can't change the politicians, change the system.  (This and the following, are about the USA tax system)

I did read a bit more, and once I was able to get past that evasion/avoidance conflation did find some plausible claims that actual evasion by the uber-wealthy (particularly non-reporting of foreign accounts) is a significant factor but far from the only one.  I agree, this should be prosecuted.

As for progressive and regressive taxation, I'm happy to agree that some degree of progressive rates is appropriate.  While large percentage of the lower-income people essentially pay no federal or state income taxes, they are still subject to many other taxes and tax-like fees.  A tax that is calculated on "disposable" income is more likely to be fair (but how to decide what is disposable?)

I do find it interesting that the the "enlightened" European countries all have a VAT which would be considered highly regressive if implemented in the USA.

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Valis, question, you mention foreign accounts..... I get the concern for these when someone deliberately moves monies offshore to hide wealth from the tax man..... that is, monies earned from US enterprises. But that is not where it ends. Wife and I have been discussing this a bit as her parents grow older. They are British, wife is British, green card holder (won't ever become US citizen, "I was born British and I shall die British").When her parents pass and in the event there is an inheritance, we will be obligated to report those monies and pay tax on those monies. How is that fair? The dosh was not made/paid in the US, it will transfer from one British Subject to another, yet the United States fully believes it can stake a claim to a portion of that money. How is that justifiable? 
Our tax laws are BS.

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20 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

It's regressive because hamburgers and bluejeans cost the same for poor people and for millionaires.

Why should a head of household who cannot afford rent much less health care, have to shell out 15% of their limited income? Why should a guy who literally does not know how many $10+M estates he owns NOT have to pay more to support a socio-economic system that is benefiting him so greatly?

It used to be that the idea of progressive taxation was agreed upon almost universally to be fair. Now, after 40 years of propaganda that taxation of the wealthy is equivalent to hating them for their success, we have about 40% of the population who genuinely think the rich should be allowed to skate.

"Not paying tax makes me smart." -TFG

- DSK

You are mistaken. that multi-millionaire is paying a metric shittonne more in taxes.

As for the lower end of the spectrum. We do a horrid job of ensuring the less fortunate gain the skills necessary to be competitive in our society. The fix for that is to help them acquire the necessary skills, not to reward them for the lack of their skills.

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7 minutes ago, quod umbra said:

Valis, question, you mention foreign accounts..... I get the concern for these when someone deliberately moves monies offshore to hide wealth from the tax man..... that is, monies earned from US enterprises. But that is not where it ends. Wife and I have been discussing this a bit as her parents grow older. They are British, wife is British, green card holder (won't ever become US citizen, "I was born British and I shall die British").When her parents pass and in the event there is an inheritance, we will be obligated to report those monies and pay tax on those monies. How is that fair? The dosh was not made/paid in the US, it will transfer from one British Subject to another, yet the United States fully believes it can stake a claim to a portion of that money. How is that justifiable? 
Our tax laws are BS.

??

Unless you're inheriting more than $6M, you don't pay taxes on "monies" that you inherit.

 

4 minutes ago, quod umbra said:

You are mistaken. that multi-millionaire is paying a metric shittonne more in taxes.

As for the lower end of the spectrum. We do a horrid job of ensuring the less fortunate gain the skills necessary to be competitive in our society. The fix for that is to help them acquire the necessary skills, not to reward them for the lack of their skills.

Agreed with you last point but it is a completely seperate issue. And no, mutli-millionaires do not pay a "shittonne" more. We just had a very prominent example of a person who inherited close to $2 billion and paid far far less than I do. Of course, he's a fucking crook and always has been. Many many others are lesser crooks but it's fully possible to structure ones' "monies" so that the cash you live on is not "income" and so not taxed, legally.

The US tax code is heinously complex, making it easier to evade, and seriously tilted toward sucking cash out of the working class.

- DSK

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21 hours ago, quod umbra said:

How so?

If everyone pays say, 15% on earnings, with no deductions, is that not fairest?

Only the left could declare equal as regressive.

It’s a good idea 

everyone pays , then simplify or eliminate  deductions 

low income earners pay the tax but they also receive  government benefits 

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Legitimate foreign accounts?  I philosophically am opposed to paying US taxes on gains that are generated in and stay in a foreign country.  But that's the law.  We (my family) have a small bank account in Finland, where we have relatives and own some property.  We have to file forms with the IRS reporting the account balance and any interest income.  If there is interest (there usually isn't in our case) we would have to pay tax to the IRS.  If we fail to report the account data we risk a huge penalty and forfeiture.

Why is this reasonable?  We paid US taxes on that money when I earned it.  The money now stays in Finland, used to pay utilities and Finnish property taxes.  But even though I don't like it we file the forms and if tax is owed we pay it.

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3 minutes ago, valis said:

Legitimate foreign accounts?  I philosophically am opposed to paying US taxes on gains that are generated in and stay in a foreign country.  But that's the law.  We (my family) have a small bank account in Finland, where we have relatives and own some property.  We have to file forms with the IRS reporting the account balance and any interest income.  If there is interest (there usually isn't in our case) we would have to pay tax to the IRS.  If we fail to report the account data we risk a huge penalty and forfeiture.

Why is this reasonable?  We paid US taxes on that money when I earned it.  The money now stays in Finland, used to pay utilities and Finnish property taxes.  But even though I don't like it we file the forms and if tax is owed we pay it.

If you make a capital gain , you pay tax 

nothing wrong with this 

if you pay capital gains tax in Finland you can deduct it against tax owed in the US 

 

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14 minutes ago, slug zitski said:

If you make a capital gain , you pay tax 

nothing wrong with this 

if you pay capital gains tax in Finland you can deduct it against tax owed in the US 

Yes we can deduct any foreign tax before calculating tax owed to the USA.

I still don't see why I should pay tax on a gain that is not repatriated.

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