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Cape Dory Typhoon or Bristol (Corinthian) 19 to learn the ropes?


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Hello everyone! After months of research, and looking on what's available in my local marketplace, I have finally decided on the type of sailboat I want as my first boat. However I would love some inputs to help me in making the final decision

I am in between the Cape Dory Typhoon or the Bristol (Corinthian) 19

Basically same size boat, by same designer, one feet difference...Similar overall condition although the Corinthian was restored in 2005 I think. Both price fair, the Corinthian +1k parked in the hard while the Typhoon is currently in the water(slip)

The Typhoon is 1600 lbs lighter than the Corinthian! At first I thought that was the deal breaker question since I was hoping to get/be a trailerable sailor. However after further thinking I have convinced myself of getting a slip and focus on sailing as the first year rather than adding another variable to the equation such as trailering, rigging, launching, etc.

The Corinthian has a Space Index of 216 while the Typhoon 176. Not sure how significant that is. I have a wife and two daughters ages 11 & 13 which I am hoping they will join me in my adventures but most likely it will be me most of the time. Still the bigger the cockpit the better just in case I have company

The Corinthian has a Motion Index of 21.5 compared to 15 on the Typhoon. Not sure how noticeable that difference is but a less rocky or wobbly boat will certainly help getting my wife and kids on board, at least for the first year while they get used to it, assuming my sailing skills are not the cause of the wobbling, lol!

Whichever one may be the most forgiving that would be helpful. My intention is to learn the ropes with this vessel for a year or two or however long it takes before considering moving to a larger one for coastal cruising, overnighting, etc.

I am in New Jersey so sailing will be primarily on the Barnegat Bay or Raritan Bay. Don't know whether one would be better than the other for learning/enjoying so if you do please let me know.

Cabin size is not really a concern with this one purchase, unless you think it should be?

That pretty much sums it all. Probably overthinking it but I am curious to hear from people who may have had experiences in one or both boats.  

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1 hour ago, hobot said:

Don't get so hung up on "'''index's", just make sure to have a good running outboard engine and go have fun.

^ this^

The engine and the condition of the other major equipment will matter far more than any set of measurements, except possibly the comparative dimensions of the cockpit seat and your butt

FB- Doug

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Everything on a boat eventually needs replacing, and replacing things on a boat is expensive.

Buy the one with the newer lines, rigging, sails, outboard, hardware, etc., even if it costs a bit more.  

If you buy a $3000 boat, and put another $3000 into it,  you can maybe sell it for $3300.  So try and find a $3300  boat where the previous owner just dumped 3 grand into it.

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2 hours ago, Editor said:

Harbor 20

That's some funny shit.  Spin or non spin?

I installed beer holders and hanging cooler where the electric motor comes out for an owner of one when they first appeared in Annapolis some time ago.  I don't remember the sailing even though it was a decent sized OD, just that we barely had to do a thing except figure out how to stock a bigger cooler.

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37 minutes ago, fastyacht said:

I am a naval architect, and I have never once heard of either of those idices. Should I?

You obviously do not design for the sales staff of Hunter or Catalina.

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Compare them by how easy the are to be in, the cockpit, the salon, and most importantly, how the rest of the family feels about the head.  Next most important but far below the former sentence is SA/D and how easy it is to reduce sail.  You want enough sail to have fun in the average conditions where you live but able to quickly reduce or remove sail when conditions become more spirited then you and family find comfortable.  sailor-cfn nailed it when he said look for a boat someone else has put money into.  I wouldn't touch a used boat that someone hasn't replaced something expensive or the price is low for the boat in general.  Oh, and all sails are worthless unless still wrapped in the plastic bag it came in from the sail maker.

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I’d suggest either for the bay. There are usually a number of Typhoons available locally. Have you considered the Ensign? There are a number of them around and they have the cockpit space for the family and a cuddy cabin.  If you take a few sailing lessons, the larger Ensign will provide more opportunity to get the family out and enjoy their new found hobby. 
 

Stick with the Barnegat Bay for learning and then you can sail the boat up to Raritan Bay and sail on the ocean.

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3 minutes ago, Foredeck Shuffle said:

Compare them by how easy the are to be in, the cockpit, the salon, and most importantly, how the rest of the family feels about the head.  Next most important but far below the former sentence is SA/D and how easy it is to reduce sail.  You want enough sail to have fun in the average conditions where you live but able to quickly reduce or remove sail when conditions become more spirited then you and family find comfortable.  sailor-cfn nailed it when he said look for a boat someone else has put money into.  I wouldn't touch a used boat that someone hasn't replaced something expensive or the price is low for the boat in general.  Oh, and all sails are worthless unless still wrapped in the plastic bag it came in from the sail maker.

Excuse me?

These are 18-19' boats. There is no "salon", and you are lucky if there is a toilet. These are daysailers with a nominal shelter of a cabin, depending on the version of the Typhoon. 

The Typhoon is a great little boat for a new sailor, but it is really old-fashioned and not performance-oriented in any way.

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8 minutes ago, accnick said:

Excuse me?

These are 18-19' boats. There is no "salon", and you are lucky if there is a toilet. These are daysailers with a nominal shelter of a cabin, depending on the version of the Typhoon. 

The Typhoon is a great little boat for a new sailor, but it is really old-fashioned and not performance-oriented in any way.

Oh, then fuck it.  Get the one with the highest SA/D.

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13 minutes ago, Sail4beer said:

I’d suggest either for the bay. There are usually a number of Typhoons available locally. Have you considered the Ensign? There are a number of them around and they have the cockpit space for the family and a cuddy cabin.  If you take a few sailing lessons, the larger Ensign will provide more opportunity to get the family out and enjoy their new found hobby. 
 

Stick with the Barnegat Bay for learning and then you can sail the boat up to Raritan Bay and sail on the ocean.

Thank you @Sail4beer I have contemplated the Ensign too but I figured for a season or two a smaller and perhaps cheaper might be better for now

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45 minutes ago, Foredeck Shuffle said:

That's some funny shit.  Spin or non spin?

I installed beer holders and hanging cooler where the electric motor comes out for an owner of one when they first appeared in Annapolis some time ago.  I don't remember the sailing even though it was a decent sized OD, just that we barely had to do a thing except figure out how to stock a bigger cooler.

exactly!

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The one with the self-bailing cockpit.  Seriously.  Less comfort, but much greater peace of mind both when you’re on the boat and when you leave the boat on the mooring.

 

Mind you, the Ensign is a very nice daysailer.  I spent much of my childhood on one.  I’ve also watched one sink in less than 2 minutes (cleated genoa, shift caught the boat aback and rolled the cockpit coming under—and down she went).

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6 hours ago, ragha108 said:

Hello everyone! After months of research, and looking on what's available in my local marketplace, I have finally decided on the type of sailboat I want as my first boat. However I would love some inputs to help me in making the final decision

I am in between the Cape Dory Typhoon or the Bristol (Corinthian) 19

Basically same size boat, by same designer, one feet difference...Similar overall condition although the Corinthian was restored in 2005 I think. Both price fair, the Corinthian +1k parked in the hard while the Typhoon is currently in the water(slip)

The Typhoon is 1600 lbs lighter than the Corinthian! At first I thought that was the deal breaker question since I was hoping to get/be a trailerable sailor. However after further thinking I have convinced myself of getting a slip and focus on sailing as the first year rather than adding another variable to the equation such as trailering, rigging, launching, etc.

The Corinthian has a Space Index of 216 while the Typhoon 176. Not sure how significant that is. I have a wife and two daughters ages 11 & 13 which I am hoping they will join me in my adventures but most likely it will be me most of the time. Still the bigger the cockpit the better just in case I have company

The Corinthian has a Motion Index of 21.5 compared to 15 on the Typhoon. Not sure how noticeable that difference is but a less rocky or wobbly boat will certainly help getting my wife and kids on board, at least for the first year while they get used to it, assuming my sailing skills are not the cause of the wobbling, lol!

Whichever one may be the most forgiving that would be helpful. My intention is to learn the ropes with this vessel for a year or two or however long it takes before considering moving to a larger one for coastal cruising, overnighting, etc.

I am in New Jersey so sailing will be primarily on the Barnegat Bay or Raritan Bay. Don't know whether one would be better than the other for learning/enjoying so if you do please let me know.

Cabin size is not really a concern with this one purchase, unless you think it should be?

That pretty much sums it all. Probably overthinking it but I am curious to hear from people who may have had experiences in one or both boats.  

hands down the corinthian is a better boat to sail..  the weekender is under powered...   the corinthian is a solid boat and is fun to sail..  I regularly sail mine  singlehand..     first thing to do is get some swivel cam cleats and mount them on the corners of the cabin top for the jib sheets, the cross cockpit sheeting is a pia and you really don't need the winches..   next thing to do is change out the dbl ended mainsheet system... currently the vogue in the fleet is single block on the traveler to a mid boom pivot cleat.. 

both boats have deck stepped masts and will require at least 2 people to drop...   I wouldn't consider either a boat   to be a trailer sailer...   the corinthian has a solid glass hull and a balsa cored deck..   the corinthian doesn't have a thru hulls so a bilge pump is a must..   the typhoon you'll have to hang the motor off the back, the corinthian has a motor well that can take a c30 minn kota trolling motor (bigger ones won't fit)  or up to 5 hp gas..

trust me, you'll have more fun in the corinthain... 

 

IMG_7744.JPG

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4 hours ago, ragha108 said:

Thank you @Sail4beer I have contemplated the Ensign too but I figured for a season or two a smaller and perhaps cheaper might be better for now

Try to think about resale too for when you eventually want to move up.

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I wouldn’t go with something for “a season or two” personally. 
 

Either learn to sail on OPB, rent, or buy something with longer term potential. 

With that many females in your life DO NOT underestimate the value of an onboard head with some form of privacy. A bucket behind a curtain doesn’t count.

If your family hates it you’re selling regardless. If they like it, you don’t want to have bought in twice. Selling a boat is rarely as easy as hoped.

Ensign over Typhoon or Bristol, unless you’re doing class racing.

Actually I wouldn’t pick any of them. They’re attractive and stable but fin keels and spade rudders are far superior for daysailing around a bay to me. 
 

Get the family out on a proper 35-40 footer with someone who knows how to sail for their first (few) experience. Something that will be an all smiles and not a chance for a squabble or scare. Then get something that 4 people won’t kill each other on overnights.

 

 

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I learned to sail on Barnegat Bay ( Okay, the Toms River ) in a Cape Dory Typhoon. Great little boats. Not that familiar with the Corinthian, but they seem comparable. I'd recommend going with the boat in the best overall condition and get a slip in a decent marina. There's not a large number of moorings are available in the area. Coming to terms with trailer launching/retrieving a keelboat to be able use it would probably take a lot of the fun out of the experience.

 

Pat

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16 minutes ago, TryGuy said:

I learned to sail on Barnegat Bay ( Okay, the Toms River ) in a Cape Dory Typhoon. Great little boats. Not that familiar with the Corinthian, but they seem comparable. I'd recommend going with the boat in the best overall condition and get a slip in a decent marina. There's not a large number of moorings are available in the area. Coming to terms with trailer launching/retrieving a keelboat to be able use it would probably take a lot of the fun out of the experience.

 

Pat

 

If it's part of the plan to be ramp-launching the thing every time it's sailed, I would not chose either of those boats. Or any fixed-keel boat.

It just so happens I did a lot of my early sailing on Barnegat Bay too, at Mantoloking and Lavalette. Very different place back in those days. I crewed in wooden E-scows and for my grandfather in his sneakbox, sailed "duck boats" which is a small sneakbox, plywood Turnabouts, various catboats many of which were horrible (not that any of the whole collection were great), and finally a Butterfly which seemed so much of an improvement, so easy and fun, that it actually made "going sailing" something my cousin and I wanted to do instead of being driven to.

FB- Doug

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9 hours ago, Grande Mastere Dreade said:

hands down the corinthian is a better boat to sail..  the weekender is under powered...   the corinthian is a solid boat and is fun to sail..  I regularly sail mine  singlehand..     first thing to do is get some swivel cam cleats and mount them on the corners of the cabin top for the jib sheets, the cross cockpit sheeting is a pia and you really don't need the winches..   next thing to do is change out the dbl ended mainsheet system... currently the vogue in the fleet is single block on the traveler to a mid boom pivot cleat.. 

both boats have deck stepped masts and will require at least 2 people to drop...   I wouldn't consider either a boat   to be a trailer sailer...   the corinthian has a solid glass hull and a balsa cored deck..   the corinthian doesn't have a thru hulls so a bilge pump is a must..   the typhoon you'll have to hang the motor off the back, the corinthian has a motor well that can take a c30 minn kota trolling motor (bigger ones won't fit)  or up to 5 hp gas..

trust me, you'll have more fun in the corinthain... 

 

 

Thank you @Grande Mastere Dreadethis is indeed the kind of response I was hoping to get from other experienced sailors. I was definitely more inclined to purchase the Corinthian and your response just added a few more points to that.  

@Steam Flyer At first I was considering a trailerable boat to keep my expenses low but I drive a Honda CRV and the payload capacity is very low at 1800 lbs plus at least for now I want to spend more time in the water than setting up and down.

@Jangles13 Reasonable but we are talking about a 5k-10k difference here. Nether of the boats I am considering will cost me more than 3K which to me is an ideal budget to give something new a try and less expensive than renting, etc. Both boats provide better motion comfort than a lot of bigger boats in the 20-25' range. Zero comfort inside the cabin but both come with a porta-potty which already makes this adventure more 'manageable' for them than hiking in the woods for example. My girls in general are more interested in their devices and looking pretty under the sun so I am not expecting them to be on board much or as much as I would want them to. Sadly but it is what it is

@hobotBelieve it or not there is a following for both of this boats and I don't see a reason why I would have a hard time reselling it, if needed. Good project boats for those who enjoy the craft. Both are priced reasonably well under market value even though they are in great overall condition. One owner moved to another state for work and the other got physically hurt and wants to part with it. 

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When comparing owning to renting don't forget the cost of the slip, haulouts, winter storage, maintenance, insurance, etc.

If you get a slip in a marina and you store the boat on land in the winter it could cost you $3K/year.  But prices can vary, so it might be a good idea to check them.

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9 minutes ago, slap said:

When comparing owning to renting don't forget the cost of the slip, haulouts, winter storage, maintenance, insurance, etc.

If you get a slip in a marina and you store the boat on land in the winter it could cost you $3K/year.  But prices can vary, so it might be a good idea to check them.

Good point. For some reason the Corinthian is in a marina that charges $2k a year for slip plus $500 for winter storage which seems to be the standard in New Jersey while the Typhoon is at one that he currently pays $800 for the slip. I'm trying to see what would it take to move the Corinthian over to where the Typhoon is. For those of you in New Jersey...I am referring to Shore Marina in Pine Beach and Beatons, the later being the less expensive. I assume it is from lack of other services such as a pool  and not sure what else. Any reason not to move the Corinthian to Beatons?

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I have dry storage for the winter on Rt 9 in Beachwood for less if you buy a boat on a trailer. About $300 for the season. Shore Point is nice, brother kept his boat there one year and my big wooden sloop is next door at de Rouville’s. Beaton’s is up bay and in shallow, safe water. $2,000 for a slip is way too much. You could contact me about slips in Bretons Harbor, which is in the lagoon next to the Toms River Yacht Club. Slip is closer to $750 in a safe harbor. 
 

If you need to learn some skills before buying a boat, maybe I could take you and your family out on one of my boats to give you a feel of what it’s like to sail a keelboat come springtime or crew in a Wednesday night race or two. I’m in Toms River.

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13 hours ago, The great unwashed said:

The one with the self-bailing cockpit.  Seriously.  Less comfort, but much greater peace of mind both when you’re on the boat and when you leave the boat on the mooring.

 

Mind you, the Ensign is a very nice daysailer.  I spent much of my childhood on one.  I’ve also watched one sink in less than 2 minutes (cleated genoa, shift caught the boat aback and rolled the cockpit coming under—and down she went).

All boats are subject to broaching and swamping, the Ensign being no exception. There is foam in fore and aft bulkheads and under the cuddy berths, so they don’t sink. I have seen one sink in Lake Canandaigua and heard of one sinking in Annapolis a few years back. Both times the owner removed the foam (probably waterlogged) and didn’t replace it and seal the bulkheads watertight as per the one design rule requiring it. 

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16 minutes ago, Sail4beer said:

I have dry storage for the winter on Rt 9 in Beachwood for less if you buy a boat on a trailer. About $300 for the season. Shore Point is nice, brother kept his boat there one year and my big wooden sloop is next door at de Rouville’s. Beaton’s is up bay and in shallow, safe water. $2,000 for a slip is way too much. You could contact me about slips in Bretons Harbor, which is in the lagoon next to the Toms River Yacht Club. Slip is closer to $750 in a safe harbor. 
 

If you need to learn some skills before buying a boat, maybe I could take you and your family out on one of my boats to give you a feel of what it’s like to sail a keelboat come springtime or crew in a Wednesday night race or two. I’m in Toms River.

That is very generous of your part. I guess send me a private message with your contact. Im planning on starting the ASA101 class with the Keyport Sailing School once available again but maybe to speak more about marinas, slips, etc

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5 hours ago, ragha108 said:

That is very generous of your part. I guess send me a private message with your contact. Im planning on starting the ASA101 class with the Keyport Sailing School once available again but maybe to speak more about marinas, slips, etc

if you're going to pull the boat once a year, neither boat is that big a deal...  doing it on a regular basis will get old...

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Both are fine little boats. On alternative would be to join the raritan yacht club in Perth Amboy. We have a shared boat program that is very cheap. Get some skills then your own.  Lots of opportunities to sail with others. 

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Here's a local (ish) $3000 boat, which probably had much more than that poured into it the last few years: https://newyork.craigslist.org/fct/boa/d/greenwich-1969-pearson-24/7400836482.html

No connection, and know nothing about the design.

On 10/29/2021 at 7:25 PM, sailor-cfn said:

Everything on a boat eventually needs replacing, and replacing things on a boat is expensive.

Buy the one with the newer lines, rigging, sails, outboard, hardware, etc., even if it costs a bit more.  

If you buy a $3000 boat, and put another $3000 into it,  you can maybe sell it for $3300.  So try and find a $3300  boat where the previous owner just dumped 3 grand into it.

On 10/29/2021 at 7:25 PM, sailor-cfn said:

Everything on a boat eventually needs replacing, and replacing things on a boat is expensive.

Buy the one with the newer lines, rigging, sails, outboard, hardware, etc., even if it costs a bit more.  

If you buy a $3000 boat, and put another $3000 into it,  you can maybe sell it for $3300.  So try and find a $3300  boat where the previous owner just dumped 3 grand into it.

 

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11 hours ago, ragha108 said:

Thank you so much everyone. Great advice here and lots of info to digest. Really appreciated!

it's a good idea to sail a bunch of boats before you buy,  you'll have a better idea of what you need / want..    if you decide you really want a corinthian I'll hook you up with a nice one you can pick up in dallas..

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16 hours ago, fastyacht said:

In the late 80s there was a Cal40 at RYC. Now that would be a sweet ride.

Sinn fein. Still there. A newport Bermuda champion.  Sadly Pete Senior has passed. Family still has her. 

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@sailor-cfn That one does look like a sweet deal. I wouldn't be able to move it with my car though plus I was set of getting something under 20' to start.

Update: The gentleman who was selling the Corinthian, accepted my offer for $2.5k It was being offered at $3.7 with winter storage already paid. I am very grateful for his willingness to work with me. Initially I was looking for a sailing dinghy to learn my foundations but when I saw this one listed, it caught me eyes. Always loved the look of classic boats and this one fits that, somewhat. I like that is bigger than a dinghy, yet still easily manageable and very forgiving for a single person without much experience

Boat was fully restored back in 2008. It pretty much looks the same today, for the most part,  from pictures below. Last one being the most recent. I am really excited about this. Next step is to enroll in ASA101 & ASA103 classes. Too bad I have to wait until April here in NJ. In the meantime I will be taking advantage of what eSail simulator offers. 

Funny joke. I asked the guy from the marina where the boat is currently if I could start painting the hull right away. He smiled looked at me and said "Read a bit about it. I will see you in April Ricardo"

Once again thank you all for your time and words

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1 hour ago, sailor-cfn said:

Congrats.

No need to wait to spring, fly down to the Caribbean in a few months and take some lessons! 

Oh lala! Didn't think of that option! Any recommendations? Maybe Florida too for that matter?

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59 minutes ago, ragha108 said:

Oh lala! Didn't think of that option! Any recommendations? Maybe Florida too for that matter?

I've taken lessons from Blue Water Sailing School, in Florida, and Maryland School of Sailing, in the Virgin Islands, but these were both big boat courses (ASA 103 & 104, and 106 respectively).  If you're new to sailing, I'd recommend learning on a small keelboat first.

While I've never taken a class from them, I know that Offshore Sailing School has bases in Florida and the Caribbean, and does a lot of small boat instruction.

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On 11/2/2021 at 3:37 PM, sailor-cfn said:

  If you're new to sailing, I'd recommend learning on a small keelboat first.

Respectfully, I think it’s best to learn to sail on a small boat like a Sunfish (the list can be long). You get immediate feedback from your successes and mistakes plus small boats are great fun.

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22 hours ago, Alan Crawford said:

Respectfully, I think it’s best to learn to sail on a small boat like a Sunfish (the list can be long). You get immediate feedback from your successes and mistakes plus small boats are great fun.

I agree.  But there aren't too many schools which teach adults on dinghys - instructors don't want to get wet.

 

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On 11/5/2021 at 11:12 AM, fastyacht said:

I taught all the GAZELA volunteers to sail. On 420 dinghies. They loved it.

She is a great ship. I almost worked on her in 2001 for the  teak re-decking but wound up over at the Independence Seaport Museum. Inside and temperature controlled, who could pass up on that offer? 

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At some point in the 90s I asked JB about that-- they were going to use Agelique. At that time I forget whether he was with the Philadelphia Ship Preservation Guild at that time. Or if it was in fact a Gazela only organization. Some twists and turns in the channel over the years.

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He probably was at the Guild until the mid 90’s. He built many of the A Cats that were built at the ISM from ‘94 on.  The Gazela project ended up with a large load of teak delivered in the spring of 2001. IIRC JB was a main consultant for that project. 

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Thread drift aside, my Dad just sold his Ensign for $1 to a young kid and his parents today so the boat can stay local and his parents can learn to sail and participate in the class association.

Small keelboats are great fun!

 

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On 11/2/2021 at 4:27 PM, ragha108 said:

Oh lala! Didn't think of that option! Any recommendations? Maybe Florida too for that matter?

Don't forget Georgia and South Carolina.

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On 11/5/2021 at 11:27 AM, sailor-cfn said:

I agree.  But there aren't too many schools which teach adults on dinghys - instructors don't want to get wet.

 

i think it is the older people trying to learn that don't want to get wet! 

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4 hours ago, Bull City said:

I don't think there's an ASA instructor there, but I could be wrong.

If they sailed there, I gotta feeling their skills.....

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