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On 16 September 2021, the World Sailing Judicial Board handed down the decision in the matter of Mr. Murray Jones v The Race Officials Committee.

 The Judicial Committee set aside a penalty imposed against Mr. Jones by the Race Officials Committee in January 2021 which adopted the earlier findings of the Investigation Panel. 

 Mr. Jones was exonerated, and the penalty of a reprimand was set aside.

However, the controversy raises important issues as to the conflict between World Sailing Disciplinary Regimes and the Affiliated Clubs administering their own member conduct rules. Central to the controversy was Mr. Glen Stanaway who is the Head of Governance, Rules and Safety of Australian Sailing.

 On 2 August 2020, in a Combined Club Winter Series race organized by the Royal Yacht Club of Tasmania (RYCT) a collision occurred between the yacht Kraken and another boat in the same race.   A protest hearing was held and the protest was dismissed as the other boat had already taken the appropriate penalty by retiring.

 Kraken at the time did not seek redress and time otherwise expired for doing so.  On 16 August 2020, and shortly after the start of Race 3 in the series, a request for redress was submitted on behalf of Kraken in respect to the incident in Race 2. 

 The request for redress was heard by a Protest Committee on 20 August 2020.  Mr. Stanaway represented Kraken in the second hearing.  The Protest Committee chaired by Mr. Jones dismissed the Request for Redress in circumstances where the Request never had any proper prospects of success.

 After the hearing had concluded, the Judicial Committee found that an exchange then took place between Mr. Jones and Mr. Stanaway along the following lines:

 “That is the end of formal proceedings and as far as the appeal goes, I do want to say something to you. It is not my usual practice to deliver a sermon after a protest hearing, but for you Glen I am going to make an exception. Someone in your position should have known that this request had no possibility of being granted. That you have chosen to waste the time of volunteers with such a frivolous, fatuous and vexatious request does you no credit.” 

 The consequences of that exchange gave rise to the uneasiness and indeed incompatibility of Club disciplinary procedures and those under the World Sailing regime.  It would seem the first step taken by Mr. Stanaway was to complain to the RYCT under its Constitution for a breach of the RYCT General Code of Conduct by Mr. Jones. 

 The RYCT Disciplinary Tribunal found that the complaint by Mr. Stanaway was inconclusive and certain allegations were found to be unsupported.  RYCT concluded there was no breach of the General Code of Conduct, and no further action was taken.  One would think that should have been the end of the matter.

 However, on 2 September 2020, the Race Officials Manager at World Sailing informed Mr. Jones that it had received a complaint from Mr. Stanaway under Regulation 32.  Regulation 32 allows complaints to be made against race officers on the complaint of, amongst others, a competitor or national member authority.

 It is unclear in which capacity the Regulation 32 complaint was lodged whether by Mr. Stanaway as a competitor or by the National Member Authority.

 In any event, the Investigation Panel relying on the evidence before the RYCT Disciplinary Committee surprisingly recommend that Mr. Jones be reprimanded.  The Investigation Panel carried out no fact-finding of its own.

Nevertheless, the Race Officials Committee adopted the recommendation of the Investigation Panel and imposed the reprimand.  Not surprisingly, Mr. Jones appealed, and the matter became before the World Sailing Judicial Board.

 While the Judicial Board were careful to point out to say that it was considering whether the proper process had been followed by the Independent Panel, it did observe:

 “The independent panel believes it is not reasonable for the IP to rely wholly on the investigation done by another organization under a different Code of Conduct. 

Moreover, the RYCT decision found with respect to Mr. Jones the complaint was inconclusive and held that Mr. Jones committed no breach of the RYCT Code of Conduct.”

 The real question here however is why did Mr. Jones have to fight two prosecutions?

 Why should there be a complaint under a club code of conduct, and at the same time a Regulation 32 complaint against Mr. Jones as a race officer where Mr. Jones would be forced to defend himself in two forums with the obvious risk that two different sets of facts could be found, and different penalties imposed?

Indeed, that is what has happened in the present circumstances.  By contrast, a well-known incident at the conclusion of an ocean race where after an on-water incident, post-race drinks descended into a melee, the RRS 69 complaint was made, a person appointed to investigate, and a three-member panel appointed to determine the complaint.

 However, when it became obvious that the conduct of race officers and senior members of the Organising Authority would be in issue, the RRS 69 investigation was abruptly halted and never concluded.

 Some but not all the pugilists were then dealt with under the Constitution of the Organising Authority and some completely inadequate sanctions were imposed against all but one participant. 

Now consider some other hypotheticals.

An International Judge is made bankrupt because of the non -payment of tax. Does that person have the moral authority to sit in judgment on others who do, and is the issue properly be subject to the supervision of the Race Officials Committee or is it a club conduct matter.

A keelboat owner with the assistance of an engineer and builder knowing races successfully with an unmeasured and overweight keel bulb?  An Australian Sailing accredited senior coach is found guilty of violent sexual offenses against minors but not those they coach?

A person makes a complaint against a senior officer of a National Member Authority and is threatened with referral to the Board of NMA for the imposition of a life ban independent of RRS 69 or any National Sports Tribunal procedure?

The issue is further confused by the application of so-called “Member Protection Policies” adopted by affiliated clubs and now it seems administered through Australian Sailing and the National Sports Tribunal in Australia.

This process is currently being used to prosecute conduct which cannot be the subject of RRS 69 because the respondent to the complaint is not a competitor at a relevant event.  

The role of the National Sports Tribunal is presently uncertain in respect to the World Sailing disciplinary regime so far as it applies in Australia.

In short, there must be better guidance from Australian Sailing as to when it is appropriate to invoke the World Sailing Disciplinary Regime as opposed to an affiliated club’s conduct rules or indeed member protection policies where breach leads to the National Sports Tribunal.

It cannot be the case that you can keep shopping for a forum in search of the result you want.

Post Note:

It is understood that Mr. Jones who is one of Australia’s most experienced and respected race officials and judges has resigned from all positions with Australian Sailing.

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Being an asshole just for the sake of being an asshole means you are a fucking asshole and should be treated as such by many people for a long time. That's my asshole philosophy and it might apply in this case. If not, I plead there were too many words in the op and I may not have read them all and likely never will.

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And because of an asshole (quoting the term above but it seems appropriate) Australian Sailing loses a respected and experienced race official. Elsewhere Race officials are re-writing the rule book mid event and getting away with it.

The rot runs deep

No wonder participation in our sport is falling 

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21 minutes ago, shanghaisailor said:

No wonder participation in our sport is falling 

I'm not saying this isn't a problem... but when it comes to falling participation in this sport, it's not the elephant in the room.

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Just now, JM1366 said:

I'm not saying this isn't a problem... but when it comes to falling participation in this sport, it's not the elephant in the room.

It actually is in my part of the world.

Go racing get fucked over by arseholes using the AS conduct regimes for political or private purposes go cruising, who cares.

Just spoke to an ex owner today who invested at least in $1.0m in the sport over the last decade.

Just walked away.

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17 minutes ago, Livia said:

It actually is in my part of the world.

Go racing get fucked over by arseholes using the AS conduct regimes for political or private purposes go cruising, who cares.

Just spoke to an ex owner today who invested at least in $1.0m in the sport over the last decade.

Just walked away.

Starting to sense a common denominator or is he a dominatrix?

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40 minutes ago, sunseeker said:

I know other people who have similar experience with Australia Sailing, competitors, who got utterly railroaded by AUS Sailing. They make US SAILING look competent. 

Sunseeker,

The rot has been in AS for years and there is a common link,  the AS employee in the above complaint. 

 

I've seen him shaft kids in order to help out / suck up to  his mates.  The sad thing is he is a on water sailing  judge and I for one don't trust him at all. We have lost many great people in both voluntary roles as well as some very talented sailor due to this man.

 

The man needs to be made accountable for his actions and then shown the door for good. 

 

Pulpit 

David Pullin 

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1 hour ago, Livia said:

It actually is in my part of the world.

Go racing get fucked over by arseholes using the AS conduct regimes for political or private purposes go cruising, who cares.

Just spoke to an ex owner today who invested at least in $1.0m in the sport over the last decade.

Just walked away.

Not just owners walking away many very good volunteers who gave their time and in many instances, like Murray, spent their own money to attend events to upskill as National and International officials are walking away from the WS / AS  regime.

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When President Truman authorized the use of the first atomic bomb against Japan, he realized that he was sacrificing perhaps a hundred thousand (100,000) lives to save a half million American boys and maybe as many as 1 to 2 MILLION Japanese. Or even more.  I feel sure that many of us on this forum would not exist if that decision had not been made (Myself, the son of a WWII veteran included). Still, One Hundred Thousand souls would vanish from the face of this earth.  75 thousand did.  

When we enter a sailboat race, it may be the investment of hundreds but likely thousands and for a few fortunate, millions of pieces of paper with pictures of dead presidents on them.  But in the END 

IT IS A GAME, IT IS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR RECREATION.  

Only when people start to realize that the wold will not end if we don’t win said race, the sun will rise again in the morning, the birds will still sing, the ground will not be a soft radioactive blue and we will probably have another opportunity to try to win again.  This is the problem we face, realizing that it is supposed to be fun.  

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1 hour ago, Santana20AE said:

When President Truman authorized the use of the first atomic bomb against Japan, he realized that he was sacrificing perhaps a hundred thousand (100,000) lives to save a half million American boys and maybe as many as 1 to 2 MILLION Japanese. Or even more.  I feel sure that many of us on this forum would not exist if that decision had not been made (Myself, the son of a WWII veteran included). Still, One Hundred Thousand souls would vanish from the face of this earth.  75 thousand did.  

When we enter a sailboat race, it may be the investment of hundreds but likely thousands and for a few fortunate, millions of pieces of paper with pictures of dead presidents on them.  But in the END 

IT IS A GAME, IT IS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR RECREATION.  

Only when people start to realize that the wold will not end if we don’t win said race, the sun will rise again in the morning, the birds will still sing, the ground will not be a soft radioactive blue and we will probably have another opportunity to try to win again.  This is the problem we face, realizing that it is supposed to be fun.  

Couldn’t agree more, but the reality is that fun is being destroyed because of a number of cases of ARBAS (Arse Rooting by Australian Sailing). As Mrs Sock said do me a few hours ago, “careful you’ll get 32’d” for an official doesn’t quite have the same tone to it as “careful you’ll get 69’d”. Sorry would have posted that sooner but we got sidetracked…

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11 hours ago, sunseeker said:

I know other people who have similar experience with Australia Sailing, competitors, who got utterly railroaded by AUS Sailing. They make US SAILING look competent. 

Wait, what?

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13 hours ago, MRS OCTOPUS said:

https://www.sailing.org/tools/documents/210916DecisionofIndependentAppealsPanelMJvROC-[27582].pdf

That's the  long version.

 

Bucket of tar..........check

Feathers.................check

Pitchfork.................check

 

 

 

 

 

Sooooooooooo what do you think about the hypothetical question about a bankrupt still acting as a IJ, cupcake? What about if they had been bankrupted twice? What if a IJ sat on a panel when one party was his commercial landlord? Good god the next thing you know judges will be exonerating boats on port in a straight forward port starboard hearing!  What if chairs are thrown? How about if a sailing office was closed and locked at 2am but a judge in a redress hearing found it was still open? What if a competitor was exclude from an event because the OA claimed they were in breach of rule 69 even though no complaint had ever been made and no hearing ever held?

These are silly questions I know but it could happen.

:)

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6 hours ago, Santana20AE said:

When President Truman authorized the use of the first atomic bomb against Japan, he realized that he was sacrificing perhaps a hundred thousand (100,000) lives to save a half million American boys and maybe as many as 1 to 2 MILLION Japanese. Or even more.  I feel sure that many of us on this forum would not exist if that decision had not been made (Myself, the son of a WWII veteran included). Still, One Hundred Thousand souls would vanish from the face of this earth.  75 thousand did.  

When we enter a sailboat race, it may be the investment of hundreds but likely thousands and for a few fortunate, millions of pieces of paper with pictures of dead presidents on them.  But in the END 

IT IS A GAME, IT IS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR RECREATION.  

Only when people start to realize that the wold will not end if we don’t win said race, the sun will rise again in the morning, the birds will still sing, the ground will not be a soft radioactive blue and we will probably have another opportunity to try to win again.  This is the problem we face, realizing that it is supposed to be fun.  

We don't have dead presidents on ours we have poets, explorers and indigenous leaders. The last time anyone from AS pulled a $10 note out of there wallet, Henry Lawson blinked at the light.

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7 hours ago, Santana20AE said:

When President Truman authorized the use of the first atomic bomb against Japan, he realized that he was sacrificing perhaps a hundred thousand (100,000) lives to save a half million American boys and maybe as many as 1 to 2 MILLION Japanese. Or even more.  I feel sure that many of us on this forum would not exist if that decision had not been made (Myself, the son of a WWII veteran included). Still, One Hundred Thousand souls would vanish from the face of this earth.  75 thousand did.  

When we enter a sailboat race, it may be the investment of hundreds but likely thousands and for a few fortunate, millions of pieces of paper with pictures of dead presidents on them.  But in the END 

IT IS A GAME, IT IS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR RECREATION.  

Only when people start to realize that the wold will not end if we don’t win said race, the sun will rise again in the morning, the birds will still sing, the ground will not be a soft radioactive blue and we will probably have another opportunity to try to win again.  This is the problem we face, realizing that it is supposed to be fun.  

 

I am tired, but generally speaking a good reader. I really don't get the comparison between Hiroshima and a sailboat race. Not at all. It seems unnecessary to bring it up in the first place, and the use of the atomic bomb that killed civilians is problematic, to say the least. In any case "investing" money in a sailboat cannot be compared to dropping a bomb. period.

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1 hour ago, LB 15 said:

Sooooooooooo what do you think about the hypothetical question about a bankrupt still acting as a IJ, cupcake? What about if they had been bankrupted twice? What if a IJ sat on a panel when one party was his commercial landlord? Good god the next thing you know judges will be exonerating boats on port in a straight forward port starboard hearing!  What if chairs are thrown? How about if a sailing office was closed and locked at 2am but a judge in a redress hearing found it was still open? What if a competitor was exclude from an event because the OA claimed they were in breach of rule 69 even though no complaint had ever been made and no hearing ever held?

These are silly questions I know but it could happen.

:)

Are you OK , precious petal?

Your stalking is becoming a concern.

Nah . Just joking.

You are my plaything.

Judging by your gibberish post you appear extremely butthurt.

:)

Do tell.

A problem shared is a problem  halved.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Anyone who is surprised at any part of this episode hasn't been paying attention.

Our sport has been rotten from top to bottom for a few years.

Go cruising.

Or stand up.

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25 minutes ago, AnotherSailor said:

 

I am tired, but generally speaking a good reader. I really don't get the comparison between Hiroshima and a sailboat race. Not at all. It seems unnecessary to bring it up in the first place, and the use of the atomic bomb that killed civilians is problematic, to say the least. In any case "investing" money in a sailboat cannot be compared to dropping a bomb. period.

Without going into the actual event, my point was that recreational events are recreational events and not a life ending event (the sun will rise the next morning, the birds will sing the earth will not have a soft, radioactive blue color, and there will be an opportunity to try to wind the race again). Life will go on.  As far as the debate over the use and the placement, we can debate that over private messages.  

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1 hour ago, MRS OCTOPUS said:

Are you OK , precious petal?

Your stalking is becoming a concern.

Nah . Just joking.

You are my plaything.

Judging by your gibberish post you appear extremely butthurt.

:)

Do tell.

A problem shared is a problem  halved.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And this is how Australian Sailing responds. The problem in clear sight in this very forum.

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4 hours ago, LB 15 said:

We don't have dead presidents on ours we have poets, explorers and indigenous leaders. The last time anyone from AS pulled a $10 note out of there wallet, Henry Lawson blinked at the light.

That's why $1 coins were invented - so that AS staff don't have to open their wallets!

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19 hours ago, Gorn FRANTIC!! said:

I wonder if Mr Stanaway will drop by this thread and let us know his interpretation and reasonings

That would be nice. Especially his interpretation of the word "Shall".

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So what happened here?

If I understand, Someone wasted everyone’s time by asking for redress, after the time limit, and the Protest comitee told them off for wasting their time.

Then snowflake boat owner, rather than just scrape the sand out of his vagina and get some beers for the boys, he instead pitched a fit and complained to Australian Sailing. And so on and so forth…

Harden the fuck up.

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1 minute ago, Controversial_posts said:

So what happened here?

If I understand, Someone wasted everyone’s time by asking for redress, after the time limit, and the Protest comitee told them off for wasting their time.

Then snowflake boat owner, rather than just scrape the sand out of his vagina and get some beers for the boys, he instead pitched a fit and complained to Australian Sailing. And so on and so forth…

Harden the fuck up.

Not quite right, the Head of Australian Sailing Rules Regulation and Safety (Mr Stanaway) complained (twice) not the boat owner.

 

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19 hours ago, TheUltimateSockPuppet said:

Not just owners walking away many very good volunteers who gave their time and in many instances, like Murray, spent their own money to attend events to upskill as National and International officials are walking away from the WS / AS  regime.

You are correct. I am on that 'journey' and I have spent years and  thousands of $ attending events and seminars to improve my rules knowledge, work alongside more experienced officials with (if I am lucky) little more than an event t-shirt for my trouble. Then when someone like Murray Jones gets a little frustrated with a tosser wasting his time - they admonish him.

Having seen this sort of thing too many times I start to think 'Am I just wasting my own time and money?'

Sorry for the mini-rant

 

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6 minutes ago, Controversial_posts said:

So what happened here?

If I understand, Someone wasted everyone’s time by asking for redress, after the time limit, and the Protest comitee told them off for wasting their time.

Then snowflake boat owner, rather than just scrape the sand out of his vagina and get some beers for the boys, he instead pitched a fit and complained to Australian Sailing. And so on and so forth…

Harden the fuck up.

 

2 minutes ago, Livia said:

Not quite right, the Head of Australian Sailing Rules Regulation and Safety (Mr Stanaway) complained (twice) not the boat owner.

 

I wonder If Mr Stanaway is up set that he didn't get his own way and has had some of his own medicine thrown back at him ?

 

Pulpit

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15 minutes ago, Controversial_posts said:

I see. But can we agree there’s too many old Aussie “sailors” with vaginas full of sand? The chafing can’t be healthy.

I see that you use the term "sailors" loosely, likely some of their full of sand vaginas are pretty loose too given the way they fuck anybody at the drop of a hat, especially those that have somehow been promoted to a position above their level of competence in officialdom.

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1 hour ago, Controversial_posts said:

So what happened here?

If I understand, Someone wasted everyone’s time by asking for redress, after the time limit, and the Protest comitee told them off for wasting their time.

Then snowflake boat owner, rather than just scrape the sand out of his vagina and get some beers for the boys, he instead pitched a fit and complained to Australian Sailing. And so on and so forth…

Harden the fuck up.

The boat owner had nothing to do with the complaint. I am informed that he asked Stanaway not to proceed with it. I understand that he was highly embarrassed and pissed off.

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2 hours ago, Controversial_posts said:

So what happened here?

If I understand, Someone wasted everyone’s time by asking for redress, after the time limit, and the Protest comitee told them off for wasting their time.

Then snowflake boat owner, rather than just scrape the sand out of his vagina and get some beers for the boys, he instead pitched a fit and complained to Australian Sailing. And so on and so forth…

Harden the fuck up.

 

28 minutes ago, (p)Irate said:

The boat owner had nothing to do with the complaint. I am informed that he asked Stanaway not to proceed with it. I understand that he was highly embarrassed and pissed off.

It's not surprising if Stanaway just did what he wanted and had no respect for the owners wishes and proceeded. I bet he was as nice as pie to the owner to his face when talking about it. 

 

Pulpit

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48 minutes ago, (p)Irate said:

The boat owner had nothing to do with the complaint. I am informed that he asked Stanaway not to proceed with it. I understand that he was highly embarrassed and pissed off.

At what point do the actions of an individual going against the owners wishes and ending up as front page news bring the sport into disrepute? Asking for a friend!

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21 hours ago, MRS OCTOPUS said:

Are you OK , precious petal?

Your stalking is becoming a concern.

Nah . Just joking.

You are my plaything.

Judging by your gibberish post you appear extremely butthurt.

:)

Do tell.

A problem shared is a problem  halved.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Is that why you took off like a scared rabbit when you saw me at the club yesterday? Don't fret cupcake I am not a violent person. I only wanted to hang shit on you.

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17 hours ago, Controversial_posts said:

So what happened here?

If I understand, Someone wasted everyone’s time by asking for redress, after the time limit, and the Protest comitee told them off for wasting their time.

Then snowflake boat owner, rather than just scrape the sand out of his vagina and get some beers for the boys, he instead pitched a fit and complained to Australian Sailing. And so on and so forth…

Harden the fuck up.

2 points

1/ you have most of the facts wrong and

2/ It is spelt 'Committee'.

If you posted here to demonstrate what a moron you are then well done. You have succeeded overwhelmingly.

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17 hours ago, Controversial_posts said:

I see. But can we agree there’s too many old Aussie “sailors” with vaginas full of sand? The chafing can’t be healthy.

Sounds like you spent some time at the beach today as well.

 

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19 hours ago, (p)Irate said:

And this is how Australian Sailing responds. The problem in clear sight in this very forum.

He is just bitter. I guess two bankruptcies will do that to a person. One was for less than $80k. Bwahahahahahahahahaha. Who declares themselves Bankrupt for only that much?

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On 11/7/2021 at 5:09 AM, LB 15 said:

Is that why you took off like a scared rabbit when you saw me at the club yesterday? Don't fret cupcake I am not a violent person. I only wanted to hang shit on you.

You seem to pine for me when I am absent from this cesspool Precious Pussycat so I will humour you and respond, but you aren’t making this easy with the lack of detail in your ramblings.

If I am to play this game, and don’t get me wrong , I do like a good game, but you really do need to tell me what “ club” we are discussing. 
It can’t be RQ , coz , I am under the impression you cut and ran from there after that nasty little episode a while back, so at risk of repeating myself , what club are we talk’n ?

 

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10 hours ago, MRS OCTOPUS said:

You seem to pine for me when I am absent from this cesspool Precious Pussycat so I will humour you and respond, but you aren’t making this easy with the lack of detail in your ramblings.

If I am to play this game, and don’t get me wrong , I do like a good game, but you really do need to tell me what “ club” we are discussing. 
It can’t be RQ , coz , I am under the impression you cut and ran from there after that nasty little episode a while back, so at risk of repeating myself , what club are we talk’n ?

 

I don’t understand what you are talking about me and RQ? I was warmly welcomed there at the state titles over the weekend. They even gave me the Trophy! Maybe you missed that? Perhaps like some others, you should have gone to spec savers.

E1082A0E-B52D-4E28-917F-74F8A2EF366B.jpeg

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So, a senior member from the staff of a peak sporting body decides to use his position to stitch-up a highly accredited and experienced official / volunteer of that sport as a means of pay-back over a decision that did not go his way, by fabricating a complaint from a seemingly innocuous incident.  

How is it that an employee in this organisation can undertake this action without first advising senior management of the complaint and intended actions, knowing full well the serious repercussions that may ensue – ie to either party or the organisation?   When did the senior management know about it?  And how were they informed?    

Fortunately the stitch-up has been exposed and the intended victim, after a battle to ensure a proper process was followed, has been able to clear his name, but what of the damage in the process?   The perpetrator must now face the consequences of his cowardly and inept behaviour.   Hard to see how any organisation can condone the actions of the perpetrator, the risk to reputation and future standing is enormous.   The organisation must also consider their obligations to the victim. 

Whilst this incident has been made public, how many other such incidents have occurred in the past and gone undetected?  What of the previous victims?  How long is the list?  Organisations such as this are fertile feeding grounds for the organisational psychopath, the longer they stay the more entrenched they become, using their unscrupulous and destructive behaviour to maintain and enhance their position along the way, usually at great cost to others and the organisation itself.  And, sometimes if you are lucky, the mask is removed and they are exposed for what they truly are.     

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10 hours ago, olaf hart said:

Just looked up GS CV on LinkedIn, he moved to Hobart from the big smoke in 2018, shame he didn’t enrol in “The sociology of small communities” 101 before he moved down…

Seriously you give him that much credit that he’d even think to do that! How about his almost immediate tilt at Hobart City Council!

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20 hours ago, RunningByTheLee said:

So, a senior member from the staff of a peak sporting body decides to use his position to stitch-up a highly accredited and experienced official / volunteer of that sport as a means of pay-back over a decision that did not go his way, by fabricating a complaint from a seemingly innocuous incident.  

How is it that an employee in this organisation can undertake this action without first advising senior management of the complaint and intended actions, knowing full well the serious repercussions that may ensue – ie to either party or the organisation?   When did the senior management know about it?  And how were they informed?    

Fortunately the stitch-up has been exposed and the intended victim, after a battle to ensure a proper process was followed, has been able to clear his name, but what of the damage in the process?   The perpetrator must now face the consequences of his cowardly and inept behaviour.   Hard to see how any organisation can condone the actions of the perpetrator, the risk to reputation and future standing is enormous.   The organisation must also consider their obligations to the victim. 

Whilst this incident has been made public, how many other such incidents have occurred in the past and gone undetected?  What of the previous victims?  How long is the list?  Organisations such as this are fertile feeding grounds for the organisational psychopath, the longer they stay the more entrenched they become, using their unscrupulous and destructive behaviour to maintain and enhance their position along the way, usually at great cost to others and the organisation itself.  And, sometimes if you are lucky, the mask is removed and they are exposed for what they truly are.     

You miss the point

all the senior management act in the same manner

check out the conduct of the CEO with a Mr Hipgrave 

 

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5 hours ago, Autonomous said:

Were I a young man looking for a sport this bullshit would send me another direction. I wonder how many have gone another direction?

I have done little racing mostly on others’ boats, started too late in life. I’ve recently thought about doing more and joined a local org that lines people up for racing. But you’re right the behavior of adults I’ve seen yelling about infractions on/off water and the arrogance/incompetence of race officials makes me think it’s not worth the trouble. 

A couple observations though. 

I have been commodore of a small YC. Dealing with member discipline is the hardest thing. The bylaws are often unclear, people involved are friends, acquaintances or people you have to see. People involved are volunteers, not lawyers.  Sometimes it is not clear, nobody ends up happy. And every YC has a Glen Stanaway. The previous two commodores both quit the job over dealing with these issues.

I used to referee kids karate competitions. I was always amazed at the behavior of adult parents, screaming at me when their kid didn’t get a point. “Cmon ref, what was that??” is fine, I’m an amateur and some of theses calls are hard to see, but sometimes the level of abuse was ridiculous, and I’m standing there thinking, “does he know I could front kick his head into the bleachers?” I quit volunteering. 

Any org that has people in it and volunteers seems into have this shit. I wish people could tell the difference between volunteer and professional and understand that a YC isnt really a court of law.. 

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Also what is it with Australia? Seems like half the stories on SA about this kind of shit, legalistic YC bitching, etchells moulds, whatever, are in Australia. You people need to calm the fuck down!

In the 80s when all the Aussie kids started showing up in the US you were a bunch of smiling charming blonde yachties who slept on your couch, drank your beer, and might have banged your girlfriend once but you’re not sure and honestly don’t really mind that much because you’re fun blokes and you can’t really blame the bitch. Now look at you, angry old fuckers trying to get each other banned from the YC.

Paradise lost.

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55 minutes ago, loneshark64 said:

And every YC has a Glen Stanaway. 

 

loneshark

You don't  understand that Glen "isn't that guy in most clubs". Glen is a high ranking AS employee and he should know better.

 

I'm ashamed to say that he represents my sport of sailing and he is a high ranking member of My national sporting body. 

 

Pulpit

 

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37 minutes ago, pulpit said:

loneshark

You don't  understand that Glen "isn't that guy in most clubs". Glen is a high ranking AS employee and he should know better.

 

I'm ashamed to say that he represents my sport of sailing and he is a high ranking member of My national sporting body. 

 

Pulpit

 

Huh. Looked him up. You’re right. Shows what I know. It is comical that the head of governance rules and compliance for the national organization is subverting the governance, rules and compliance. And that it’s actually a full time paid position. 

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8 hours ago, loneshark64 said:

I have done little racing mostly on others’ boats, started too late in life. I’ve recently thought about doing more and joined a local org that lines people up for racing. But you’re right the behavior of adults I’ve seen yelling about infractions on/off water and the arrogance/incompetence of race officials makes me think it’s not worth the trouble. 

A couple observations though. 

I have been commodore of a small YC. Dealing with member discipline is the hardest thing. The bylaws are often unclear, people involved are friends, acquaintances or people you have to see. People involved are volunteers, not lawyers.  Sometimes it is not clear, nobody ends up happy. And every YC has a Glen Stanaway. The previous two commodores both quit the job over dealing with these issues.

I used to referee kids karate competitions. I was always amazed at the behavior of adult parents, screaming at me when their kid didn’t get a point. “Cmon ref, what was that??” is fine, I’m an amateur and some of theses calls are hard to see, but sometimes the level of abuse was ridiculous, and I’m standing there thinking, “does he know I could front kick his head into the bleachers?” I quit volunteering. 

Any org that has people in it and volunteers seems into have this shit. I wish people could tell the difference between volunteer and professional and understand that a YC isnt really a court of law.. 

Refereed karate completions, the Lota Fishing the Fighting Club is looking for new flag officiers, you would be perfect.

Can I put your name forward!

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8 hours ago, loneshark64 said:

Also what is it with Australia? Seems like half the stories on SA about this kind of shit, legalistic YC bitching, etchells moulds, whatever, are in Australia. You people need to calm the fuck down!

In the 80s when all the Aussie kids started showing up in the US you were a bunch of smiling charming blonde yachties who slept on your couch, drank your beer, and might have banged your girlfriend once but you’re not sure and honestly don’t really mind that much because you’re fun blokes and you can’t really blame the bitch. Now look at you, angry old fuckers trying to get each other banned from the YC.

Paradise lost.

The administration of the sport is completely screwed at so many levels.

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11 hours ago, pulpit said:

 

I'm ashamed to say that he represents my sport of sailing and he is a high ranking member of My national sporting body. 

 

pulpit, I hope you don't mind my edit for brevity.

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1 hour ago, (p)Irate said:

Check out the front page for an update. 

Apart from the fuckery and chicanery going on surrounding that hearing, one of the most dissapointing parts is having an official, Nick Hutton, International Race Officer and Sailing Manager of the Royal Yacht Club of Tasmania, twice describe the event as " a series that didn’t matter. " and  "a trivial winter series race."

Not much thought given to the participants, and if the series was sponsored, then a slap in the face for those putting up the money.

 

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11 minutes ago, HILLY said:

Apart from the fuckery and chicanery going on surrounding that hearing, one of the most dissapointing parts is having an official, Nick Hutton, International Race Officer and Sailing Manager of the Royal Yacht Club of Tasmania, twice describe the event as " a series that didn’t matter. " and  "a trivial winter series race."

Not much thought given to the participants, and if the series was sponsored, then a slap in the face for those putting up the money.

 

I doubt that Nick Hutton said half the things that Stanaway is alleging he said. We might find out when the Editor posts the rest of the documents that he says he has that someone was being very loose with the truth. After all, the RYCT's internal complaint exonerated Nick, and there is no evidence that World Sailing took any action over the complaints about Nick, only those about Murray Jones.

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That complaint is so unprofessional, I would expect a high school student to do far better.  GRS couldn't even get the chronology right - the hearing was 20th August and he and the boat owner discussed what had happened on the 18th???

The repetition indicates that the author didn't even bother to read back through the document.  The whining was pathetic.  It is my view that GRS has humiliated himself at every step, and it is appropriate that his standing has been diminished. I would have also been pissed off to have my time wasted by the saga.

And as a rules expert, how does GRS suggest that their finishing position was made significantly worse in a race they didn't start in, and how is that through no fault of their own when they failed to notice the damage at the time of the original incident, or for some considerable time after?  Damage that was significant enough that the boat was apparently unable to compete in any subsequent race in the series!

Do they still use tar and feathers in Tassie?

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3 hours ago, Recidivist said:

And as a rules expert, how does GRS suggest that their finishing position was made significantly worse in a race they didn't start in

From GRS's complaint. Nick enquired why and I responded by explaining that if racing takes place our score would be worsened by no fault of our own due to damage caused by another boat breaking a rule. Upon learning this Nick argued with me that the case had no merit due to our current score and the number of points at stake.

And below are the results. They didn't start Race 1, came last in Race 2, but GRS thinks their results could be worsened? Worse? How could it be worse?

Screenshot_20211121-133503_Samsung Internet.jpg

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Dear oh dear. It just gets worse and worse.

GRS, you ought to consider your position. Time to move on from AS and get a real job. Methinks you have lost whatever respect you may have had.

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16 hours ago, (p)Irate said:

From GRS's complaint. Nick enquired why and I responded by explaining that if racing takes place our score would be worsened by no fault of our own due to damage caused by another boat breaking a rule. Upon learning this Nick argued with me that the case had no merit due to our current score and the number of points at stake.

And below are the results. They didn't start Race 1, came last in Race 2, but GRS thinks their results could be worsened? Worse? How could it be worse?

 

Ah fuck it.  Why didn't the PC just grant them redress and award average points? 

WTF was GRS thinking when he lodged the application for redress?  I mean - what did he think he was going to achieve?

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GRS quote "I also feel that my professional reputation with senior local stakeholders was severely damaged; I left the hearing humiliated."

As I have said before, truly thin skinned.  Your "professional reputation" (such as it may be, judged by others) would not have been damaged at all if you hadn't taken the demonstrably stupid course that you did in seeking redress when, on any view, it first, wasn't warranted, and second, was going to get your owner in no better situation given his shit points position.

 

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33 minutes ago, Controversial_posts said:

What sort of weird sailing culture do you have down there, where a crew member demands redress against the owners wishes? 
 

 

That’s nothing when you consider we disqualified the Starboard tack boat and don’t ban the guy who hit his partner with a chair until it became front page news

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40 minutes ago, TheUltimateSockPuppet said:

That’s nothing when you consider we disqualified the Starboard tack boat and don’t ban the guy who hit his partner with a chair until it became front page news

Uhhhhh who hit who with the what? any more info?

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