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NYT: Blue States, You're the Problem


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BLUE STATES YOU"RE THE PROBLEM

Why do states with Democratic majorities fail to live up to their values?

 

It’s easy to blame the other side. And for many Democrats, it’s obvious that Republicans are thwarting progress toward a more equal society.

But what happens when Republicans aren’t standing in the way?

In many states — including California, New York and Illinois — Democrats control all the levers of power. They run the government. They write the laws. And as we explore in the video above, they often aren’t living up to their values.

In key respects, many blue states are actually doing worse than red states. It is in the blue states where affordable housing is often hardest to find, there are some of the most acute disparities in education funding and economic inequality is increasing most quickly.

Instead of asking, “What’s the matter with Kansas?” Democrats need to spend more time pondering, “What’s the matter with California?”

14:20 Video https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/09/opinion/democrats-blue-states-legislation.html#commentsContainer

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Homeless problem in California is extremely challenging. Folks keep working on it. There seems to be an endless supply of crazy.

Education funding? with the state levelling, it's pretty equal in public schools. Private schools a different matter.

Economic disparity? Well, we've got one of the highest minimum wage rate at $14/hour, but when kids out of college make $110k, well, yeah, there's a disparity.

 

Another way to look at it? Why is the cost of living in California so high? 

 

Cause it's worth it. 

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Well, for starters, Blue states are typically where people want to live, work, learn and play.  People of all income levels are willing to pay high prices to live there, eat there, work there and study there.  

And many of the Blue states, especially on the West Coast have climates (and governments) that are not trying to kill you.  So it is easy to migrate there, full of hope and try to survive.  

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5 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

Homeless problem in California is extremely challenging. Folks keep working on it. There seems to be an endless supply of crazy.

Education funding? with the state levelling, it's pretty equal in public schools. Private schools a different matter.

Economic disparity? Well, we've got one of the highest minimum wage rate at $14/hour, but when kids out of college make $110k, well, yeah, there's a disparity.

 

Another way to look at it? Why is the cost of living in California so high? 

 

Cause it's worth it. 

I lived in NoCal.... It's not all it's cracked up to be.... Or methed up to be.... Or anything else really. It's a great place to visit, but it's either out of work loggers/fishermen/farmers, or itinerant vineyard/orchard help, dope growers, or trust fund hippies/ middle-age retired ambulance chaser lawyers..... Or tourist industry.

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4 minutes ago, chum said:

You really have no idea what you're talking about again. Northern California is home to the tech hub of the universe you idiot. Maybe you should have just left the meth alone.

The "Bay area" is one tiny fly splat on the windshield of NoCal.

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8 minutes ago, chum said:

You really have no idea what you're talking about again. Northern California is home to the tech hub of the universe you idiot. Maybe you should have just left the meth alone.

First time I laughed with you.....  LOL

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12 minutes ago, quod umbra said:

Or another way to look at it Raz'n is, why is the value of the dollar so low in states like New York and California?

The problem with leftist policy in the first place is it solves nothing. It is purely a matter of virtue signaling.

California is the biggest source of revenue for the federal government, at $234 billion, we have no control over how that money is spent. Instead we watch while our taxes go to fund a massive military, and vast anti-poverty programs in red states. California and other blue states provide the funding, but are powerless to enact policies that control our own tax revenue.

That's why the value of the dollar is lower in California, and it has nothing to do with so-called leftist policy. 

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1 hour ago, quod umbra said:

Or another way to look at it Raz'n is, why is the value of the dollar so low in states like New York and California?

The problem with leftist policy in the first place is it solves nothing. It is purely a matter of virtue signaling.

In quod's world, the cost of a Lamborghini is high, because the value of the currency used to buy it is low. Or something. And the cost of a Kia is low, because the opposite.

Nah. It's supply and demand. Why dies s/he hate capitalism?

There's a shit-ton of demand to live in Cali. Hence, the cost of housing, food, gas, etc. If no one wanted to be here, costs would be like, say, the costs in Mississippi.

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3 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

In quod's world, the cost of a Lamborghini is high, because the value of the currency used to buy it is low. Or something. And the cost of a Kia is low, because the opposite.

Nah. It's supply and demand. Why dies s/he hate capitalism?

There's a shit-ton of demand to live in Cali. Hence, the cost of housing, food, gas, etc. If no one wanted to be here, costs would be like, say, the costs in Mississippi.

and there are cheap places to live in California too. Shitholes, mostly. Some are nice. Just remote.

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2 hours ago, Mrleft8 said:

I lived in NoCal.... It's not all it's cracked up to be.... Or methed up to be.... Or anything else really. It's a great place to visit, but it's either out of work loggers/fishermen/farmers, or itinerant vineyard/orchard help, dope growers, or trust fund hippies/ middle-age retired ambulance chaser lawyers..... Or tourist industry.

If the Bay Area were a nation, it would command the 19th-largest economy in the world.

https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/07/10/immense-growth-makes-bay-area-worlds-19th-largest-economy-google-facebook-apple-adobe/

Yeah, a fly speck.

 

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34 minutes ago, βhyde said:

If the Bay Area were a nation, it would command the 19th-largest economy in the world.

https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/07/10/immense-growth-makes-bay-area-worlds-19th-largest-economy-google-facebook-apple-adobe/

Yeah, a fly speck.

 

I suspect y'all are referring to Central California.  Nice place to get rich and maybe get handout if you're poor.  Or you can live on a boat in Richardson Bay.

In my view, Northern California starts when Napa is in your rear view mirror.  It's a red, or at best a purple, state that elects idiots like Devin Nunes.

 

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1 minute ago, Left Shift said:

I suspect y'all are referring to Central California.  Nice place to get rich and maybe get handout if you're poor.  Or you can live on a boat in Richardson Bay.

In my view, Northern California starts when Napa is in your rear view mirror.  It's a red, or at best a purple, state that elects idiots like Devin Nunes.

 

We call that part of California "Oregon." It's where weed use to come from. No one knows what the hell is going on up there, and no one really cares. If Oregon annexed it, I'm not sure anyone would notice. The San Francisco Bay Area and Sacramento have always been considered northern California. Kind of like how Chicago is considered the "Mid West." It really doesn't make sense, but we're going with it until California, Oregon, and Washington form their own country. :)

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6 minutes ago, βhyde said:

We call that part of California "Oregon." It's where weed use to come from. No one knows what the hell is going on up there, and no one really cares. If Oregon annexed it, I'm not sure anyone would notice. The San Francisco Bay Area and Sacramento have always been considered northern California. Kind of like how Chicago is considered the "Mid West." It really doesn't make sense, but we're going with it until California, Oregon, and Washington form their own country. :)

So the Central Valley is in Northern California?  Makes perfect sense.  Just like the Grapevine is no where near a vineyard.  However, there is weed in Weed, so one for three.

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2 minutes ago, Left Shift said:

So the Central Valley is in Northern California?  Makes perfect sense.  Just like the Grapevine is no where near a vineyard.  However, there is weed in Weed, so one for three.

No, no, it's much simpler than that. Anything north of LA is "Northern California." Anything east of Highway 5 is "The East Coast." It's just a convenient why to distinguish Dodger fans from Giants fans from Mets fans. We don't talk about the American League.

^What Chum said about the Central Valley. It's part of northern and central California for no particular reason.

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4 minutes ago, chum said:

Well the Central Valley is so named because of its location running through the north south axis, all the way to Redding, way up north. There are lots of vineyards down by the grapevine too. https://www.temeculawines.org/blog/four-grapes-to-watch-in-temecula-valley-southern-california-wine-country/

Temecula is pretty far from the Grapevine. Unfortunately, I lived there for three fucking years with my first wife who was a complete...lets not get into that.

From the Grapevine Wiki:

The village and grade are named for the canyon the trail passed through, after the wild grapes that grow along the original road. Its Spanish name is La Cañada de las Uvas, that is, Grapevine Ravine.

I did not know that.

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I’ll actually give Badlat credit for starting this thread. I’ll connect the dots to many other threads and ask why California doesn’t just bump minimum wage up to about forty bucks an hour?  Wouldn’t that make housing affordable again?  

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3 hours ago, βhyde said:

No, no, it's much simpler than that. Anything north of LA is "Northern California." Anything east of Highway 5 is "The East Coast." It's just a convenient why to distinguish Dodger fans from Giants fans from Mets fans. We don't talk about the American League.

^What Chum said about the Central Valley. It's part of northern and central California for no particular reason.

You have your perspective completely reversed.  This is the proper view of america, without the distortion of any west coast perspective.

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8 hours ago, Mrleft8 said:

I lived in NoCal.... It's not all it's cracked up to be.... Or methed up to be.... Or anything else really. It's a great place to visit, but it's either out of work loggers/fishermen/farmers, or itinerant vineyard/orchard help, dope growers, or trust fund hippies/ middle-age retired ambulance chaser lawyers..... Or tourist industry.

Disagree: while there I met lots and lots of talented and hard working people, and they welcomed us as if we were family. That was during our time rebuilding the Golden Rule peace vessel. The Eureka & Humboldt communities came together to git 'er dun !! USAeans really are more friendly the farther west one goes. 

Drug abuse is also a scourge back here in Sweetwater Seas flyover county.  

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5 hours ago, Left Shift said:

Northern California starts when Napa is in your rear view mirror.  It's a red, or at best a purple, state that elects idiots like Devin Nunes.

Nunnes district is no where near NorCal . . 

What a stupid comment 

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5 hours ago, βhyde said:

Kind of like how Chicago is considered the "Mid West." It really doesn't make sense,

Yes, it makes total sense. 

What does not make sense (to Californians anyway) is trying to tell them that Ohio is in the Mid West. 

When you do, you get lots of funny looks. 

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4 hours ago, Monkey said:

I’ll actually give Badlat credit for starting this thread. I’ll connect the dots to many other threads and ask why California doesn’t just bump minimum wage up to about forty bucks an hour?  Wouldn’t that make housing affordable again?  

More demand, higher price. But, is demand the issue or supply? If a bunch of folks could now afford better housing, you know the developers would build it. 
 

and for chumly, the most expensive zip code is now in the Bay Area. Must be because no one wants to live there.

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4 hours ago, Monkey said:

I’ll actually give Badlat credit for starting this thread. I’ll connect the dots to many other threads and ask why California doesn’t just bump minimum wage up to about forty bucks an hour?  Wouldn’t that make housing affordable again?  

I don't think the system could handle that. Landlords, and real estate investors, would have dollar signs in their eyes trying to figure how to pocket all that money. In places like Los Angeles, or San Francisco, I hate to think of all the damage that could cause. The rush for good paying jobs, housing is suddenly non existent, homelessness compounded, too many problems to handle at once.

California is controlled by real estate investors, it's the reason why we have a homeless problem, every time a parcel is carved out for redevelopment, there is someone who has an eye on private development. You know the drill, get neighbors involved, strike fear, convince the city the plan won't work, city gets cold feet, developer gets okay for his redevelopment plan, usually high end condos. 

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6 minutes ago, chum said:
6 hours ago, AJ Oliver said:

 USAeans really are more friendly the farther west one goes.  

Disagree 100% having lived a long time in both places. Midwestern folks are more friendly by far IMO, at least on the surface. Is Arizona considered west? Have you ever been there? Friendly is not a word I would use for them. Californians are too worried about making a minimum six figures just to pay the rent, they have no time for nicey nice.

USAnians are friendly and nice all over, unless you're in front of them at a stop light that just turned green.

Californians want to tell you about how much their house is worth. Midwesterners want to tell you about their casserole recipes, usually with corn.

- DSK

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27 minutes ago, chum said:

30 years ago you couldn't see the San Gabriels from the LA basin most days, it's very different now, much better.

Good. I remember all too well the same issues 70 years ago. I decided  I didn't need to breathe it for a lifetime. It was clear for a few days after a storm revealing the great view ... for a few days. Last time I flew into LAX ... maybe 5 years ago, entered a brown layer of air ... and couldn't see the ground for a longish period.

I'll take yer word for it Chum but I'm not cancelling my LA Times sub:  12/20

For a brief moment this year, Southern Californians got a glimpse of what clean air could look and feel like. During the first COVID-19 pandemic shutdowns in the spring, the dramatic drop in vehicle pollution combined with stormy weather to help clear out the region’s notoriously smoggy, hazy air, leaving blue skies and crisp vistas. 

It didn’t last long. In fact, 2020 ended up being one of Southern California’s smoggiest years in decades, The Times’ Tony Barboza recently reported. There were 157 days when the region exceeded the federal health standard for ozone pollution, the main ingredient in smog. That’s the most since 1997. The region has also had more than 30 days of excessive fine-particle pollution, or soot. ...

Southern California’s air quality has been on the decline for several years now, with the worst effects felt in San Bernardino, Riverside and other inland communities. Despite decades of emissions control regulations and programs, the region is losing the fight for clean air. Far too many residents still live with unhealthy levels of pollution that can permanently damage children’s lungs and raise adults’ risk of heart attacks and strokes.

The region will not meet a Clean Air Act deadline to reduce ozone levels by the end of 2022, which could lead to the loss of federal transportation funding and other penalties. https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2020-12-27/2020-smoggiest-year

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Tragedy of the Commons. We have seen the enemy and it is us. 

2 minutes ago, chum said:

I guess it's going south again.

Speaking of, when I lived briefly in San Diego, the locals all said the smog was blowing down from LA -- and this despite the freeway and airport and Navy ships all right down town and a completely unregulated city of 2 million folks within a 15 min drive. That was in the 1980s, iirc, and it was illegal to wash your car in your driveway. Or something like that.

I understand the desire to live like Rob Lowe and other luminaries. Reality bites is a better bet.

 

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Red states are creating wealth through extractive industries, agriculture and suburban sprawl. Blue states reward creativity, finance and international ventures.

The standard of living in red states is so much less than in blue states, lower overall wages are more than compensated by being able to afford increased consumption.

Who cares if you’re making more than $20/hr at a warehouse job in NYC or San Fran if you can’t afford health insurance, an apartment and groceries? Let alone own a house with a small yard?

Blue states have a more desirable set of policies and living standards for those who can afford it. Scarcity of resources and capitalism have, perhaps, created a “new conservatism”… the American Dream rewards winners, hard work, creativity. Progressive ideals are, perhaps, just Conservative American values of expanding freedoms and promoting the belief that all men are created equal.

“Created equal” doesn’t mean “equal outcomes.”

Pushing back against these American ideals creates a movement encouraging social regression and rewarding other life choices.

 

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19 hours ago, badlatitude said:

BLUE STATES YOU"RE THE PROBLEM

Why do states with Democratic majorities fail to live up to their values?

 

It’s easy to blame the other side. And for many Democrats, it’s obvious that Republicans are thwarting progress toward a more equal society.

But what happens when Republicans aren’t standing in the way?

In many states — including California, New York and Illinois — Democrats control all the levers of power. They run the government. They write the laws. And as we explore in the video above, they often aren’t living up to their values.

In key respects, many blue states are actually doing worse than red states. It is in the blue states where affordable housing is often hardest to find, there are some of the most acute disparities in education funding and economic inequality is increasing most quickly.

Instead of asking, “What’s the matter with Kansas?” Democrats need to spend more time pondering, “What’s the matter with California?”

14:20 Video https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/09/opinion/democrats-blue-states-legislation.html#commentsContainer

That's some pretty yellow journalism.  In most Red States, the difference between the haves and the have-nots mean the have-nots are living in poverty.

In most blue states - let's look at California - a lot of the have nots are have nots NOT because they don't make lots of money, but because the costs are so high due to the super high income in the states.  That's a resultant of a high powered economy and lots of job opportunity.  It's like comparing Silicon Valley to the Ohio River Valley.  It just isn't even remotely the same.

That isn't to say that "blue" states don't have their problems.  But.... the way this piece frames it is pretty intellectually dishonest.

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3 hours ago, chum said:

Disagree 100% having lived a long time in both places. Midwestern folks are more friendly by far IMO,

We started going out to Humboldt in 2012 to help rebuild the Golden Rule, and had no idea what to expect. We were welcomed like family pretty much everywhere - in fact, it was better than family being as how a lot of my family back East are pretty freakin' mean. We made more close friends in Humboldt in six months than we had in the Midwest over decades. And it was weird and wonderful that as one who was thought to be a left wing loonie back in Ohio, out in NorCal I was just middle of the road. Cali in general has considerably higher educational attainment than our area in Ohio - and you can see it at work in NorCal's amazing volunteer spirit, vibrant arts scene, social cohesion and politics 

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5 minutes ago, Swimsailor said:

I still haven't heard what "leftist policies" create homelessness.  

Well, let's see:

Pushing the mentally ill out of residence homes?  Nope, righties

Cutting funding for outpatient? nope, righties

Tax cuts for the wealthy so that there's less funding available for housing? nope, righties

hmmm....

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15 minutes ago, Grrr... said:

That's some pretty yellow journalism.  In most Red States, the difference between the haves and the have-nots mean the have-nots are living in poverty.

In most blue states - let's look at California - a lot of the have nots are have nots NOT because they don't make lots of money, but because the costs are so high due to the super high income in the states.  That's a resultant of a high powered economy and lots of job opportunity.  It's like comparing Silicon Valley to the Ohio River Valley.  It just isn't even remotely the same.

That isn't to say that "blue" states don't have their problems.  But.... the way this piece frames it is pretty intellectually dishonest.

40 million people is what makes California expensive. Lack of housing is one cause, Proposition 13 is another, Jobs, are yet another. I bought my first home in Malibu for $93,000. That property tax is locked in at that assessment until I sell or die. That frees up income that would otherwise be lost to the tax man. I did what many other Californians did, and reinvested in real estate. A lot of Californians became a real estate investor class, and as California took off with jobs, people hopped on that wagon as well. As people flooded into California, it became way obvious that the next gold rush was apartments, duplexes, condos, and single family dwellings, all for rent. Joe Blow waltzes into California, and finds the boom has jacked prices into the stratosphere. A single family dwelling of 3 bedrooms in San Diego, runs about $865,000, housing prices rise seasonally at 25.9% a year. An average home in San Francisco, is $1,472,000 a one bedroom apartment rents $2250.

Joe Blow gets a good high paying job, but he can't make ends meet. Meanwhile the rest of us have money to burn. People argue forever about what to do. That's where blue states are hypocritical, NIMBY is everywhere, 27% of Santa Monica votes Republican, they bought there because they loved the neighborhoods. Obviously, zoning changes are a very long and arduous process.

Democrats have been hypocritical in some matters, there is no sense in sugar coating that. Republicans have been far worse, neither represent what we all want America to represent. I guess it would help if we had politicians with the balls to take the lead, like that would ever happen. Right?

 

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3 minutes ago, badlatitude said:

40 million people is what makes California expensive. Lack of housing is one cause, Proposition 13 is another, Jobs, are yet another. I bought my first home in Malibu for $93,000. That property tax is locked in at that assessment until I sell or die. That frees up income that would otherwise be lost to the tax man. I did what many other Californians did, and reinvested in real estate. A lot of Californians became a real estate investor class, and as California took off with jobs, people hopped on that wagon as well. As people flooded into California, it became way obvious that the next gold rush was apartments, duplexes, condos, and single family dwellings, all for rent. Joe Blow waltzes into California, and finds the boom has jacked prices into the stratosphere. A single family dwelling of 3 bedrooms in San Diego, runs about $865,000, housing prices rise seasonally at 25.9% a year. An average home in San Francisco, is $1,472,000 a one bedroom apartment rents $2250.

Joe Blow gets a good high paying job, but he can't make ends meet. Meanwhile the rest of us have money to burn. People argue forever about what to do. That's where blue states are hypocritical, NIMBY is everywhere, 27% of Santa Monica votes Republican, they bought there because they loved the neighborhoods. Obviously, zoning changes are a very long and arduous process.

Democrats have been hypocritical in some matters, there is no sense in sugar coating that. Republicans have been far worse, neither represent what we all want America to represent. I guess it would help if we had politicians with the balls to take the lead, like that would ever happen. Right?

 

The fight in our town is all about high density. Jeebus folks, we have a damn commuter train running right through town. Of COURSE we should let the corridor be high-density. 

Fuck your old tofu store, that thing is broken anyway. 

 

edit: great analysis by the good folks at Stanford U. Build high density housing and transit corridor from SF to San Jose on El Camino and deal with the housing shortage for a couple decades or more. Not 20 story buildings either. 4 story buildings, on block deep. Done and dusted. 

 

Won't happen. 

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2 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

The fight in our town is all about high density. Jeebus folks, we have a damn commuter train running right through town. Of COURSE we should let the corridor be high-density. 

Fuck your old tofu store, that thing is broken anyway. 

 

edit: great analysis by the good folks at Stanford U. Build high density housing and transit corridor from SF to San Jose on El Camino and deal with the housing shortage for a couple decades or more. Not 20 story buildings either. 4 story buildings, on block deep. Done and dusted. 

 

Won't happen. 

It shouldn't happen. San Francisco is already the second most densely packed city in the country behind New York City. Any fool who says it should be more dense should be dragged behind the barn and dealt with.

Let the giants of Silicon Valley move to a less dense area of California, and let them create their own gentrified city.

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11 minutes ago, badlatitude said:

It shouldn't happen. San Francisco is already the second most densely packed city in the country behind New York City. Any fool who says it should be more dense should be dragged behind the barn and dealt with.

Let the giants of Silicon Valley move to a less dense area of California, and let them create their own gentrified city.

Not san francisco. All the little towns between the 2 big cities. 

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21 hours ago, badlatitude said:

BLUE STATES YOU"RE THE PROBLEM

Why do states with Democratic majorities fail to live up to their values?

 

It’s easy to blame the other side. And for many Democrats, it’s obvious that Republicans are thwarting progress toward a more equal society.

But what happens when Republicans aren’t standing in the way?

In many states — including California, New York and Illinois — Democrats control all the levers of power. They run the government. They write the laws. And as we explore in the video above, they often aren’t living up to their values.

In key respects, many blue states are actually doing worse than red states. It is in the blue states where affordable housing is often hardest to find, there are some of the most acute disparities in education funding and economic inequality is increasing most quickly.

Instead of asking, “What’s the matter with Kansas?” Democrats need to spend more time pondering, “What’s the matter with California?”

14:20 Video https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/09/opinion/democrats-blue-states-legislation.html#commentsContainer

I think a lot of this has to do with population density. Look at at Texas and Florida. They have many of the same issues.

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9 minutes ago, Remodel said:

I think a lot of this has to do with

Also has to do with being victims of their own success - great livability, great schools, lots of jobs all attract people. 

And it's not just in the US - Toronto and Vancouver also have growth issues 

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1 hour ago, badlatitude said:

What does making the peninsula equally dense accomplish?

If I recall the study, they were addressing the ever increasing gridlock and sprawl(which are reflected in the cost of housing). Instead of moving to Tracy, move to a unit in Santa Clara. Near the office. Lower costs, lower commute time loss, climate impact, yada yada yada. 

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Well, back to the OP sorta . . 

Although I am a Gray Lady subscriber, she does really irritate me much of the time.  

Below is a straight-up propaganda piece on the Nicaraguan elections from just a few days ago . . 

The Gray Lady article stands out to me because it has absolutely nothing positive to say about the Nica regime - to me, that sets off alarm bells. 
 
(The Nica government's achievements are real, and the FSLN won the election bigly.) 

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/07/world/americas/nicaragua-election-ortega.html      (hope you can get around the paywall) 

And note in that lengthy piece that there is nary a word about the history and impact of US interventions and terror in Nica for the past CENTURY AND A HALF !! 

And for the US in this era, of all nations, to lecture other countries about the quality of their democratic practices is the essence of head-scratching chutzpah. 

The NYT does some good work, but when it comes down to it, she is a tool of the oligarchy. 

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13 hours ago, AJ Oliver said:

Nunnes district is no where near NorCal . . 

What a stupid comment 

You are correct on the location of his district, for some reason I thought it was up by Redding.  Nope.   Faulty assumption. 

However, that was a pretty quick jump to calling me "stupid".  Thanks. 

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1 minute ago, Left Shift said:

You are correct on the location of his district, for some reason I thought it was up by Redding.  Nope.   Faulty assumption. 

However, that was a pretty quick jump to calling me "stupid".  Thanks. 

You are right - sorry for my intemperate comment. 

We all make mistakes 

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27 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

If I recall the study, they were addressing the ever increasing gridlock and sprawl(which are reflected in the cost of housing). Instead of moving to Tracy, move to a unit in Santa Clara. Near the office. Lower costs, lower commute time loss, climate impact, yada yada yada. 

I gathered as much as I thought about it. The re-zoning fights will not be fun.

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2 hours ago, Swimsailor said:

I still haven't heard what "leftist policies" create homelessness.  

Apparently, being considerate and generous to the unlucky, unloved, unwell and/or unemployed is a leftist thing, and draws those people to places where governments at least attempt to be compassionate. 

Ergo, homeless folks, mostly those hopeful of a better future along with others damaged by circumstances show up in those places.  

And at least California itself isn't trying to kill you, unlike, say, North Dakota.  

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1 minute ago, Left Shift said:

Pro tip:  Read what you write before you post as if it was addressed to you.

I have been called way worser here - way, way worser. 

But that is no excuse - again, apologies 

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32 minutes ago, badlatitude said:

Density plus lack of affordable housing = Homelessness.

Plus weather where you don't freeze to death. If'n I was homeless I'd much rather be in SoCal than Detroit. 

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3 minutes ago, gptyk said:

Plus weather where you don't freeze to death. If'n I was homeless I'd much rather be in SoCal than Detroit. 

I always thought so, but Chicago has something like 75,000 homeless and New York City has 78,000. They say the best place is Houston TX, which has reduced its homeless population by 55%. Being Texas, I guess they could all be buried out in the desert. (snark). Seriously, people should learn from Houston, they have done a good job.

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On 11/9/2021 at 3:53 PM, badlatitude said:

BLUE STATES YOU"RE THE PROBLEM

Why do states with Democratic majorities fail to live up to their values?

By "values" did they mean promises?  Because the Dems, along with the Rs, have made it crystal clear their values begin and end with the accumulation of wealth - personally, for their respective parties, and especially for their donors.

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3 minutes ago, Jules said:

By "values" did they mean promises?  Because the Dems, along with the Rs, have made it crystal clear their values begin and end with the accumulation of wealth - personally, for their respective parties, and especially for their donors.

The 'values' as expressed in the lede are those of the author. If you haven't watched the video, please do, it is well worth your time.

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1 minute ago, quod umbra said:

As usual, Raz'n is dead wrong.....

Try this, at least as New York is concerned.

Closing New York State Psychiatric Hospitals Is Dangerous

The impact of this insane let-em-lose-to-fend-for-themselves policy is cruel to people with mental illness who desperately need and want treatment. But it's also dangerous to the public.
 

DJ JaffeBy 

Exec. Dir. Mental Illness Policy Org., Author, "Insane Consequences: How the Mental Health Industry Fails the Mentally Ill"
03/19/2012 06:05pm EDT | Updated May 19, 2012
This post was published on the now-closed HuffPost Contributor platform. Contributors control their own work and posted freely to our site. If you need to flag this entry as abusive, send us an email.
 
 
 
 
 

The recently announced proposed closure of Kingsboro Psychiatric Hospital in Brooklyn, is the latest step by the New York State Office of Mental Health (OMH) to get out of the business of providing treatment to people with serious mental illness and spurred a massive demonstration in Albany on Thursday. In the last 12 months, OMH announced they are "reducing census"--i.e., kicking the mentally ill out of -- Bronx, Mohawk Valley and Sagmore Psychiatric Center.These came on top of previously announced closings at Rockland Psychiatric Center, Pilgrim Psychiatric Center, Mid-Hudson Forensic Psychiatric Center, Hudson River Psychiatric Center, and Buffalo Psychiatric Center. Unions and families of people with serious mental illness are mad.

New York State Office of Mental Health Commissioner Michael Hogan and Governor Andrew Cuomo say patients will get the same services elsewhere. Some will. Most won't.

The impact of this insane let-em-lose-to-fend-for-themselves policy is cruel to people with mental illness who desperately need and want treatment. But it's also dangerous to the public. According to the Daily News, late last month, "A 25-year-old mentally ill Brooklyn man stabbed his mother and kid brother and beat them with a hammer." Near where Buffalo Psychiatric Center reduced beds, 6,300 homes experienced a blackout when a recently released allegedly mentally ill man used a chain saw to cut down utility poles. Near where Rockland Psychiatric Center reduced beds, police rescued a suicidal mentally ill man who was off medications, barricaded in his home and brandishing a pellet gun. And earlier this month, between where Rockland County Psychiatric Center and Hudson River Psychiatric Center reduced beds police shot and killed allegedly mentally ill Tim Mulqeen who brought a loaded shotgun and 50 rounds of ammunition to a city court.

 

When will this madness end? New York went from 599 psychiatric beds per 100,000 citizens down to twenty eight. And the new closures take us even lower. OMH is simply transferring the seriously ill to the criminal justice system. New York incarcerated 14,000 people with serious mental illness largely because OMH only has beds for 3,600. There are more mentally ill in a single jail, Riker's Island, than all state hospitals combined. The most conservative estimates are that if New York had the best community services available -- and we don't -- it would still need 4,311 more hospital beds to meet the minimum needs of seriously mentally ill New Yorkers.

A new study on "Homeland Security and Mental Illness" by Chief Michael Biasotti, vice-president of the New York State Association of Chiefs of Police found law enforcement is being overwhelmed by this "policy change that in effect removed the daily care of our nation's severely mentally ill population from the medical community and placed it with the criminal justice system." Families of people with serious mental illness are up in arms. In New York, hospital closures mean you are now more likely to be arrested for having a serious mental illness than hospitalized.One would think ensuring the seriously mentally ill get treatment would be the core mission of the Office of Mental Health. But it hasn't been ever since Michael Hogan was appointed commissioner. His stated goal is to "create hope filled, humanized environments and relationships in which people can grow" not getting medications to the seriously mentally ill. One can understand what drives his hospital closure policy -- "Hey Gov., look how much money I'm saving!" But it's harder to understand how Cuomo doesn't recognize the impact on people with serious mental illness, public safety, and how Hogan's efforts to save OMH money are costing the criminal justice system and the state much more.

OMH should not be kicking patients out of hospitals. It should be sending its sickest citizens to the front of the line for services, not the rear.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/kingsboro-psychiatric-center-closing_b_1342887

I don't spend too much time in NY. I find the smell of the city to be a little too pungent. Upstate is quite nice though. 

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4 minutes ago, quod umbra said:

As usual, Raz'n is dead wrong.....

Try this, at least as New York is concerned.

Closing New York State Psychiatric Hospitals Is Dangerous

The impact of this insane let-em-lose-to-fend-for-themselves policy is cruel to people with mental illness who desperately need and want treatment. But it's also dangerous to the public.
 

DJ JaffeBy 

Exec. Dir. Mental Illness Policy Org., Author, "Insane Consequences: How the Mental Health Industry Fails the Mentally Ill"
03/19/2012 06:05pm EDT | Updated May 19, 2012
This post was published on the now-closed HuffPost Contributor platform. Contributors control their own work and posted freely to our site. If you need to flag this entry as abusive, send us an email.
 
 
 
 
 

The recently announced proposed closure of Kingsboro Psychiatric Hospital in Brooklyn, is the latest step by the New York State Office of Mental Health (OMH) to get out of the business of providing treatment to people with serious mental illness and spurred a massive demonstration in Albany on Thursday. In the last 12 months, OMH announced they are "reducing census"--i.e., kicking the mentally ill out of -- Bronx, Mohawk Valley and Sagmore Psychiatric Center.These came on top of previously announced closings at Rockland Psychiatric Center, Pilgrim Psychiatric Center, Mid-Hudson Forensic Psychiatric Center, Hudson River Psychiatric Center, and Buffalo Psychiatric Center. Unions and families of people with serious mental illness are mad.

New York State Office of Mental Health Commissioner Michael Hogan and Governor Andrew Cuomo say patients will get the same services elsewhere. Some will. Most won't.

The impact of this insane let-em-lose-to-fend-for-themselves policy is cruel to people with mental illness who desperately need and want treatment. But it's also dangerous to the public. According to the Daily News, late last month, "A 25-year-old mentally ill Brooklyn man stabbed his mother and kid brother and beat them with a hammer." Near where Buffalo Psychiatric Center reduced beds, 6,300 homes experienced a blackout when a recently released allegedly mentally ill man used a chain saw to cut down utility poles. Near where Rockland Psychiatric Center reduced beds, police rescued a suicidal mentally ill man who was off medications, barricaded in his home and brandishing a pellet gun. And earlier this month, between where Rockland County Psychiatric Center and Hudson River Psychiatric Center reduced beds police shot and killed allegedly mentally ill Tim Mulqeen who brought a loaded shotgun and 50 rounds of ammunition to a city court.

 

When will this madness end? New York went from 599 psychiatric beds per 100,000 citizens down to twenty eight. And the new closures take us even lower. OMH is simply transferring the seriously ill to the criminal justice system. New York incarcerated 14,000 people with serious mental illness largely because OMH only has beds for 3,600. There are more mentally ill in a single jail, Riker's Island, than all state hospitals combined. The most conservative estimates are that if New York had the best community services available -- and we don't -- it would still need 4,311 more hospital beds to meet the minimum needs of seriously mentally ill New Yorkers.

A new study on "Homeland Security and Mental Illness" by Chief Michael Biasotti, vice-president of the New York State Association of Chiefs of Police found law enforcement is being overwhelmed by this "policy change that in effect removed the daily care of our nation's severely mentally ill population from the medical community and placed it with the criminal justice system." Families of people with serious mental illness are up in arms. In New York, hospital closures mean you are now more likely to be arrested for having a serious mental illness than hospitalized.One would think ensuring the seriously mentally ill get treatment would be the core mission of the Office of Mental Health. But it hasn't been ever since Michael Hogan was appointed commissioner. His stated goal is to "create hope filled, humanized environments and relationships in which people can grow" not getting medications to the seriously mentally ill. One can understand what drives his hospital closure policy -- "Hey Gov., look how much money I'm saving!" But it's harder to understand how Cuomo doesn't recognize the impact on people with serious mental illness, public safety, and how Hogan's efforts to save OMH money are costing the criminal justice system and the state much more.

OMH should not be kicking patients out of hospitals. It should be sending its sickest citizens to the front of the line for services, not the rear.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/kingsboro-psychiatric-center-closing_b_1342887

That sounds exactly the kind anger that happened when mental hospitals were closed and underfunded community mental health outpatient clinics couldn't get the job done. The birth of homelessness in America. Thanks, Reagan.

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23 hours ago, badlatitude said:

California is the biggest source of revenue for the federal government, at $234 billion, we have no control over how that money is spent. Instead we watch while our taxes go to fund a massive military, and vast anti-poverty programs in red states. California and other blue states provide the funding, but are powerless to enact policies that control our own tax revenue.

That's why the value of the dollar is lower in California, and it has nothing to do with so-called leftist policy. 

That is the job of the congress critters, to being the money home.  Not like we don't have taxation without representation.  

 

1 hour ago, badlatitude said:

That sounds exactly the kind anger that happened when mental hospitals were closed and underfunded community mental health outpatient clinics couldn't get the job done. The birth of homelessness in America. Thanks, Reagan.

Do tell  But read first

https://www.disabilityrightsca.org/publications/understanding-the-lanterman-petris-short-lps-act\

And does Props 47, 57, and AB109 have anything to do with the homeless?   There has always been a problem, but it has escalated in the past years.

Another question, if what Regan did was so wrong, why didn't Jerry Brown fix it?  After all, he was the governor of CA for 16 years post-Regan.

 

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5 minutes ago, Ventucky Red said:

That is the job of the congress critters, to being the money home.  Not like we don't have taxation without representation.  

 

Do tell  But read first

https://www.disabilityrightsca.org/publications/understanding-the-lanterman-petris-short-lps-act\

And does Props 47, 57, and AB109 have anything to do with the homeless?   There has always been a problem, but it has escalated in the past years.

Another question, if what Regan did was so wrong, why didn't Jerry Brown fix it?  After all, he was the governor of CA for 16 years post-Regan.

 

There has always been a problem, but it has escalated in the past years.

 

Yes, starting with Reagan.  Jerry Brown did institute some viable programs statewide, or at least in counties with the highest homeless problems. Numbers dropped until the HUD budget got cut, that, and Section 8 got changed, predictably everything went south after that. Changes at the federal level had more to do with the people on the street than anything the state has done.

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34 minutes ago, badlatitude said:

There has always been a problem, but it has escalated in the past years.

 

Yes, starting with Reagan.  Jerry Brown did institute some viable programs statewide, or at least in counties with the highest homeless problems. Numbers dropped until the HUD budget got cut, that, and Section 8 got changed, predictably everything went south after that. Changes at the federal level had more to do with the people on the street than anything the state has done.

Once again you have demonstrated you have no real grasp on the problem.  There is federal funding coming to CA.  Like the money for schools Sacramento likes holding on to it so they boost up their budget surplus numbers for attention whoring purposes.

Sadly, many will disagree with you on the state vs federal problem

https://d1.ocgov.com/californias-dangerous-trifecta-ab109-prop-57-and-prop-47

https://californiaglobe.com/articles/how-prop-47-fueled-the-homeless-epidemic/

https://californiapolicycenter.org/fixing-california-part-six-homeless-and-law-enforcement/

https://www.lapd.com/sites/default/files/tbl_apr2017_sandoz.pdf

https://www.dailynews.com/2018/04/24/the-impact-of-proposition-47-in-los-angeles-county/

 

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2 minutes ago, Ventucky Red said:

Once again you have demonstrated you have no real grasp on the problem.  There is federal funding coming to CA.  Like the money for schools Sacramento likes holding on to it so they boost up their budget surplus numbers for attention whoring purposes.

Sadly, many will disagree with you on the state vs federal problem

https://d1.ocgov.com/californias-dangerous-trifecta-ab109-prop-57-and-prop-47

https://californiaglobe.com/articles/how-prop-47-fueled-the-homeless-epidemic/

https://californiapolicycenter.org/fixing-california-part-six-homeless-and-law-enforcement/

https://www.lapd.com/sites/default/files/tbl_apr2017_sandoz.pdf

https://www.dailynews.com/2018/04/24/the-impact-of-proposition-47-in-los-angeles-county/

 

If the California haters would just leave California, there'd be a nice drop in home prices and we would have more housing for the homeless. Come on, admit you'd be happier in Texass.

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26 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

If the California haters would just leave California, there'd be a nice drop in home prices, and we would have more housing for the homeless. Come on, admit you'd be happier in Texas.

So dropping the price of homes will solve the problem?  Un-affordable housing is not the main issue behind the homeless problem.  Contributes, yes, but not the main problem as in the talking points the donkey dick suckers like to tell you to cover up their incompetence in governing and taking care of problems.

I am not down on CA. I want to see the homeless problem fixed. Gawd knows they got the money to do it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Ventucky Red said:

So dropping the price of homes will solve the problem?  Un-affordable housing is not the main issue behind the homeless problem.  Contributes, yes, but not the main problem as in the talking points the donkey dick suckers like to tell you to cover up their incompetence in governing and taking care of problems.

I am not down on CA. I want to see the homeless problem fixed. Gawd knows they got the money to do it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't think it's all a money problem. It's also a "will" problem. No one wants homeless housed near them, and 2, the homeless don't want to be forced into housing they don't want. 

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3 minutes ago, Ventucky Red said:
1 hour ago, Raz'r said:

I don't think it's all a money problem. It's also a "will" problem. No one wants homeless housed near them, and 2, the homeless don't want to be forced into housing they don't want to live clean and sober.

There fixed it for you.

Well, your edit sure does explain the moronic posts you tend to make.

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3 hours ago, Ventucky Red said:

Once again you have demonstrated you have no real grasp on the problem.  There is federal funding coming to CA.  Like the money for schools Sacramento likes holding on to it so they boost up their budget surplus numbers for attention whoring purposes.

Sadly, many will disagree with you on the state vs federal problem

https://d1.ocgov.com/californias-dangerous-trifecta-ab109-prop-57-and-prop-47

https://californiaglobe.com/articles/how-prop-47-fueled-the-homeless-epidemic/

https://californiapolicycenter.org/fixing-california-part-six-homeless-and-law-enforcement/

https://www.lapd.com/sites/default/files/tbl_apr2017_sandoz.pdf

https://www.dailynews.com/2018/04/24/the-impact-of-proposition-47-in-los-angeles-county/

 

First, you completely ignore the fact that California has been ordered by the Supreme Court to reduce prison population. Police do not want even low offenders out of prison. they got it down to 117,000 from 160,000 but if it goes up again, you can expect the court to slap California silly.

Sheriff and police unions don't like those propositions because it puts the onus for stopping crime square on their backs. So they fear monger contrary solutions.

The author of prop 47 is the former police chief of San Diego. His advocacy group raised over $5million dollars to get that prop passed. While peace officers, police unions raised just $429,000. If you want something stopped from becoming law, you have to support it with money and effort.

You are the one who has no grasp of the problem. You have been fear mongered to be part of the problem

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 11/9/2021 at 2:22 PM, chum said:

You really have no idea what you're talking about again. Northern California is home to the tech hub of the universe you idiot. Maybe you should have just left the meth alone.

I've lived in NorCal for 40 years. I live in Lake County which is northeast of Sonoma and Napa Counties. There are zero tech jobs here or in Colusa County or Glenn County or Trinity County or Humboldt County or Lassen County or Sutter, Yuba, etc, etc. There aren't a lot of great jobs once you get away from the SF Bay area or Sacramento. Our SF elites talk a big game, but they really do very little for either the lower middle class or the working poor in this state. There's a huge reason that California residents are moving to Idaho, Texas, Nevada, and Arizona....

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40 minutes ago, AJ Oliver said:

Whatever happened to that sailor murdering deputy ? 

Russell Perdock. They made him mayor. Probably because SF elites talk a big game, but they really do very little for either the lower middle class or the working poor in this state.

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On 11/10/2021 at 1:36 AM, badlatitude said:

California is controlled by real estate investors, it's the reason why we have a homeless problem, every time a parcel is carved out for redevelopment, there is someone who has an eye on private development. You know the drill, get neighbors involved, strike fear, convince the city the plan won't work, city gets cold feet, developer gets okay for his redevelopment plan, usually high end condos. 

Those condos will pay higher taxes, which is a public purpose and justifies those redevelopment plans.

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