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1 minute ago, chum said:

How so?

Sealioning is a harassment tactic by which a participant in a debate or online discussion pesters the other participant with disingenuous questions under the guise of sincerity, hoping to erode the patience or goodwill of the target to the point where they appear unreasonable.

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@chum Never mind. Found it here:  https://journals.lww.com/americantherapeutics/Fulltext/2021/08000/Ivermectin_for_Prevention_and_Treatment_of.7.aspx Before you hitch your wagon to that

Are you ou fucking kidding me? Please tell me you are.  Please tell me this is just some idiotic Facebook cut and paste like it appears to be, and you didn't actually type this and believe it?  Let's

Did you even read this?  Let’s see, they allocated the funds to buy doses, that is good.  Then, because TFG is such a petty Dick, they weren’t allowed to coordinate with the Biden administration from

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"Testing is a double-edged sword,...When you do testing to that extent, you're going to find more people, you're going to find more cases, so I said to my people, 'Slow the testing down, please.'"

-Straight shooter with upper management written all over him. 

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“Joe Biden is promising to delay the vaccine and turn America into a prison state—locking you in your home while letting far-left rioters roam free. The Biden Lockdown will mean no school, no graduations, no weddings, no Thanksgiving, no Christmas, no Fourth of July”
-President I’m Asking for Your Vote. 

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Just now, chum said:

Been at the helm while we're experiencing another spike in covid deaths since he declared we had the upper hand in July? 

Not fired the Fauc?

Sealion much?

It's the actual topic of the thread!  But I'm glad I taught you a new term.  

We do have the upper hand if people will do what they need to do, like get vaccinated,  and summers would cool down enough so people stay away from Biker rallies and UF losing football games.

Why would he fire a scientist?  The scientist doesn't make any policy.  Do you want Brix back to write laws?

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“Something how Dr. Fauci is revered by the LameStream Media as such a great professional, having done, they say, such an incredible job, yet he works for me and the Trump Administration, and I am in no way given any credit for my work. Gee, could this just be more Fake News?”
 

Unfair. SO Unfair. 

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Just now, chum said:

We have the upper hand? Whats the average trend been since he declared that? 

A spike in the South where rednecks thing self defense against a virus requires an AR15 and livestock medicine.  And regular seasonality and variants everywhere else, far below the 4000/day high deaths of Jan 16th.

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3 minutes ago, chum said:

Yeah, um nar, look again, the spike was across the board all regions. Higher in the south, yes, but try not to concentrate on shiny objects. Is he not president of the whole US? or just some parts lol...

Maybe we have different versions of a spike from your own graph.  We have mountains here, we don't call them hills.

But keep running with this narrative about a devastating spike since July when we are down from 4000/day to about 1000/day deaths since Jan 16th.  You can't even take that as a positive?

And from your own article:  See where vaccination is an important feature of herd immunity?  And no mention of the livestock ant-parasitic symptom reducer?

In the U.S., someone who is vaccinated has less than 1/10th the risk of getting seriously ill as someone who is not. 

This level of protection against severe disease makes it possible that—even if we can’t eliminate transmission of the coronavirus soon—we can get to a level of population immunity where COVID’s effects can be manageable. For example, by achieving high levels of vaccination before the summer of 2021, countries like Germany, Spain, and Canada have kept their COVID-related death rates much lower than what we have seen in the U.S.—even though they have seen surges in cases like those seen in the U.S. COVID mortality rates in these countries are similar to the death rates from suicide or motor vehicle crashes in the U.S. Each of these deaths is a tragedy, but this comparison suggests that, if we can increase vaccination levels, we can eventually get COVID-19 to a level where its effects are like those of other major public health concerns in this country. 

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4 hours ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

6F4C6401-9AC3-4E3F-B8A4-EC89042D3B51.jpeg

They taught their children and grandchildren well.

What is it about living in the south that makes so many people so mean & nasty

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Just now, chum said:

Try to keep up, there is no herd immunity.

Ivermectin is not only for livestock, sealion. its been used by 80 million humans a year. So much disinformation in one place.

Conclusions: 

Moderate-certainty evidence finds that large reductions in COVID-19 deaths are possible using ivermectin. Using ivermectin early in the clinical course may reduce numbers progressing to severe disease. The apparent safety and low cost suggest that ivermectin is likely to have a significant impact on the SARS-CoV-2 pandemic globally.

Says who?

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3 minutes ago, chum said:

Love the personal attacks, it lets me know there's no other arguments.

When you're entire premise is that firing Dr Fauci and Ivermectin are the answers to lower the death rate of Covid to zero, and repeating Sol's line and using Sealion wrong over and over, we may as well talk about college football instead since it's Saturday.  Go Aztecs.

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1 hour ago, roundthebuoys said:

When you're entire premise is that firing Dr Fauci and Ivermectin are the answers to lower the death rate of Covid to zero, and repeating Sol's line and using Sealion wrong over and over, we may as well talk about college football instead since it's Saturday.  Go Aztecs.

The Aztecs played Friday and slayed with a backup QB.  Excellent game.  Onto the MWC championship game against Utah State!

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8 hours ago, chum said:

Whatever, bullshitter. there would’ve been no roll out without operation warp speed dumb shit. Didn’t Trump have a timetable also for withdrawal from Afghanistan? Bullshitter?

Trump's timetable for withdrawing from Afghanistan:

1- release all Taliban prisoners

2- longer than 4 years.

but that's just the facts, sure there is some reason to think Trump would have had both infrastructure and health care DONE by now, as well as ending the war and lowering gas prices. Right? Right?

- DSK

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1 minute ago, Steam Flyer said:

Trump's timetable for withdrawing from Afghanistan:

1- release all Taliban prisoners

2- longer than 4 years.

but that's just the facts, sure there is some reason to think Trump would have had both infrastructure and health care DONE by now, as well as ending the war and lowering gas prices. Right? Right?

- DSK

 

Don't waste your time and keystrokes on the RWNJ's!  The "ignore user" function in OUR friend.....

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8 hours ago, chum said:
8 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Says who?

 

8 hours ago, chum said:

Neither of those are about the horse syrup - they are both about herd immunity.

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8 hours ago, SloopJonB said:
8 hours ago, chum said:

Try to keep up, there is no herd immunity.

Ivermectin is not only for livestock, sealion. its been used by 80 million humans a year. So much disinformation in one place.

Conclusions: 

Moderate-certainty evidence finds that large reductions in COVID-19 deaths are possible using ivermectin. Using ivermectin early in the clinical course may reduce numbers progressing to severe disease. The apparent safety and low cost suggest that ivermectin is likely to have a significant impact on the SARS-CoV-2 pandemic globally.

Expand  Expand  

Says who?

Try to keep your bullshit straight.

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8 hours ago, chum said:

Try to keep up, there is no herd immunity.

Ivermectin is not only for livestock, sealion, its been used by 80 million humans a year. So much disinformation in one place.

Conclusions: 

Moderate-certainty evidence finds that large reductions in COVID-19 deaths are possible using ivermectin. Using ivermectin early in the clinical course may reduce numbers progressing to severe disease. The apparent safety and low cost suggest that ivermectin is likely to have a significant impact on the SARS-CoV-2 pandemic globally.

Which study are you quoting here?

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@chum

Never mind. Found it here:

 https://journals.lww.com/americantherapeutics/Fulltext/2021/08000/Ivermectin_for_Prevention_and_Treatment_of.7.aspx

Before you hitch your wagon to that horse, you may want to read this:

https://www.politifact.com/article/2021/jun/30/what-know-about-pro-ivermectin-groups-study-toutin/

It references that study directly.

And you may want to have a look at this:

https://www.sciencealert.com/meta-studies-like-those-on-ivermectin-promote-poorly-done-research-scientists-argue

Also note that what you are referencing is a meta-review not an actual clinical trial. You may want to look up what a meta-review is so you know the difference.

If you still think the American Therapeutics meta-review is legit, then here's another review that says the exact opposite:

https://academic.oup.com/cid/advance-article/doi/10.1093/cid/ciab591/6310839?searchresult=1

If you don't feel like reading all of that, the bottom line is that Ivermectin, while useful in many other applications, is not an approved treatment for Covid. There is a ton of misleading and flat out false information out there, so be careful when citing these kinds of "studies." 

My $0.02

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Just now, slug zitski said:

No such thing 

Gibraltar is 100 per vaccinated and presently going into lockdown 

142% vaccinated.

Vaccination doesn't stop you getting Covid, it reduces the chance of getting it and reduces the severity. You probably know this, but it doesn't stop you spreading bullshit.

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1 hour ago, quod umbra said:

I do not disagree that herd immunity is likely unachievable with a morphing virus.

Gib is a funny place. There are all sorts of people coming and going both across the border, yachties and on ferries from Morocco. Add to that the constant smuggling that takes place on a weekly, if not daily basis I would think it very difficult to actually closed Gibraltar to the outside world.

I was recently in gib 

the frontier has careful surveillance , in addition La Linea transients have been vaccinated 

they did a good job , but positivity is still very high 

 

 

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On 11/25/2021 at 8:26 PM, chum said:

What an ignorant thing to say. Totally expected from you.

About your area of expertise? Remind me again?

Ignorant?? Actually, the statement is based upon information. 
perhaps  you meant callous, crass, or unfeeling.

 

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8 minutes ago, chum said:

https://www.covid19treatmentguidelines.nih.gov/therapies/antiviral-therapy/ivermectin/

  • There is insufficient evidence for the COVID-19 Treatment Guidelines Panel (the Panel) to recommend either for or against the use of ivermectin for the treatment of COVID-19. Results from adequately powered, well-designed, and well-conducted clinical trials are needed to provide more specific, evidence-based guidance on the role of ivermectin in the treatment of COVID-19.

What do you say Dr Sol, Dr Round, shouldn't we study its use further? I haven't seen any study ruling it out since. I could be wrong. It seems real professionals in the field recommend further study, and thats what's happening, apparently against your best judgement.

I get that you're so personally invested against its use, you've made complete jackasses out of yourselves in your vocal opposition to stuff you know nothing about.

Talk about misinformation.

I'm not AGAINST it's use, I am against the ADVOCATING it's use when it has zero proven benefit and a couple of harmful potential side effects.

See the difference. If people are told the truth, then let them make their own decision. But making decisions based on lies is not good.

Further study? Sure, knock yourself out. But don't make false claims, bullshitter.

- DSK

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1 minute ago, chum said:

Can you read?

Like I said to Steam, show me where I advocate for its use. 

Bullshitter.

If you're talking about the flying kind, yes I'm licensed to maintain them. As for the car, I owned a 65, and repaired it plenty. Like I tell my kids, I can fix anything.

Stop with the bullshitter crap.  It's like Joker calling everyone a liar, it's lost it's teeth from you.

You're selling Ivermectin like you own it, that's it, it's not a hidden code only you can decipher.  It's right there in front of everyone in a million posts.

And I was talking about the four-legged kind.

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35 minutes ago, chum said:

Could you discuss your concerns about this more in depth Dr Steam? Remember it's been taken by 80 million people a year.

Bullshitter

For covid? How many has it cured of covid? Focus on the topic!

Calling me a bullshitter doesn't make me one. What I post is actually fact. Seems to piss some people off though, why do you think that is?

- DSK

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12 minutes ago, chum said:

So rather than cite even one example, you try to bullshit your way out of it.

Bullshitter.

No, I'm not saying you're recommending shoving Ivermectin up your ass. Not at all. You're Dumb but not that dumb. You're just providing useful medical information just as any mechanic would.

On 11/27/2021 at 8:53 AM, chum said:

Again with the bullshit Sol Ivermectin has been prescribed to millions and millions of people around the globe for years, not in the form of horse paste. But you knew that. Bullshitter.

On 11/27/2021 at 9:09 AM, chum said:

So I guess this is the last will hear from you and the ivermectin bullshit is that right Sol? 
Too bad there was so much noise and bs from people like you early on, a lot of lives could have been saved. I seem to recall a similar study from the VA early on that was buried. 
Bullshitter.

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3 minutes ago, chum said:

Try to concentrate Steam, you were talking about side effects you were concerned with, I was asking you to elaborate.

Bullshitter.

Did you google "Ivermectin side effects"? How many gazillion hits?

From the very top one, I didn't want to spend a lot of time on this. Looks pretty fuckin' serious, you can die of altered heart rythm among other things.

Ivermectin Side Effects

Medically reviewed by Drugs.com. Last updated on Mar 12, 2021.

In Summary

Commonly reported side effects of ivermectin include: fever, pruritus, and skin rash. See below for a comprehensive list of adverse effects.

For the Consumer

Applies to ivermectin: oral tablet

Side effects requiring immediate medical attention

Along with its needed effects, ivermectin may cause some unwanted effects. Although not all of these side effects may occur, if they do occur they may need medical attention.

Check with your doctor as soon as possible if any of the following side effects occur while taking ivermectin:

Less common—for the treatment of river blindness (onchocerciasis) only

  • Eye or eyelid irritation, pain, redness, or swelling

Side effects not requiring immediate medical attention

Some side effects of ivermectin may occur that usually do not need medical attention. These side effects may go away during treatment as your body adjusts to the medicine. Also, your health care professional may be able to tell you about ways to prevent or reduce some of these side effects.

Check with your health care professional if any of the following side effects continue or are bothersome or if you have any questions about them:

More common—for the treatment of river blindness (onchocerciasis) only

  • Fever, itching or skin rash
  • joint or muscle pain
  • painful and tender glands in neck, armpits, or groin
  • rapid heartbeat

Less common—for the treatment of river blindness (onchocerciasis) only

  • Headache
  • swelling of the face, hands, arms, feet, or legs

Less common—for the treatment of strongyloidiasis only

Rare—for the treatment of river blindness (onchocerciasis) only

  • Lightheadedness when getting up from a lying or sitting position

Rare—for the treatment of strongyloidiasis only

  • Loss of appetite
  • shaking or trembling
  • sleepiness
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1 minute ago, chum said:

Which ones are you particularly concerned with Dr steam, you know, the ones that should prevent 80 million people a year from taking it? You know, the ones that contraindicate it for further study for Covid?

So, how much are you taking?

- DSK

 

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2 minutes ago, chum said:

Your own elk, Dr Steam, is calling for an end to the disinformation. His peers, all the professionals in the studies above, are calling for further study and peer review , including of those studies indicating its usefulness. I think we should see a reduction in the bullshitter horse medicine disinformation campaign here.

Of course, bullshitters gonna bullshit, so the usual suspects will of course continue with the horse jokes.

What, are you offended by horse's ass jokes?

What a politically correct snowflake

- DSK

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WASHINGTON, DC – The American Medical Association (AMA), American Pharmacists Association (APhA), and American Society of Health-System Pharmacists (ASHP) strongly oppose the ordering, prescribing, or dispensing of ivermectin to prevent or treat COVID-19 outside of a clinical trial.

 https://www.ama-assn.org/press-center/press-releases/ama-apha-ashp-statement-ending-use-ivermectin-treat-covid-19 

Dumb, those are only American medical + pharmaceutical associations. Does your boy Putin recommend Ivermectin in Russia? They're less hamstrung by liberal elites.

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1 hour ago, chum said:

... Put up or shut up, show me where I advocate for its use. Posting studies is not advocating for its use...

The quote you posted was from a meta-review that's conclusion was that Ivermectin could be an effective treatment for Covid. If you're not advocating for its use for Covid, why cite an article that does? I don't get it. What am I missing here?

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2 minutes ago, βhyde said:

… If you're not advocating for its use for Covid, why cite an article that does? I don't get it. What am I missing here?

It is textbook dodge and weave. “Only asking questions.” Pathetic attempts to own the libs. Picked it up from Tucker, et al.

I would have thought the horse-paste idiocy would have passed by now.

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3 minutes ago, chum said:

Where did El go? I want to talk aviation. Actually never mind that’s the dickhead that insulted my wife yesterday I forgot. 

Humorless. Lighten up. Didn’t insult your wife. She’s great. She says “Hi.”

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10 minutes ago, chum said:

I posted numerous more, I’m advocating for not dismissing it, just as the experts are in the above cites.

 

On 11/27/2021 at 8:59 AM, chum said:

...

https://journals.lww.com/americantherapeutics/fulltext/2021/08000/ivermectin_for_prevention_and_treatment_of.7.aspx

....

Conclusions: 

Moderate-certainty evidence finds that large reductions in COVID-19 deaths are possible using ivermectin. Using ivermectin early in the clinical course may reduce numbers progressing to severe disease. The apparent safety and low cost suggest that ivermectin is likely to have a significant impact on the SARS-CoV-2 pandemic globally.

^ is this the study you are citing? The other cites you posted were for Ivermectin use in treating parasitic infections and malaria. Neither of those studies mention Covid.

The American Therapeutics study above, as I have already discussed, has been shown to be flawed if not completely discredited.

I'm not against studying alternative treatments for Covid, that's always a good idea, but at this time there is little evidence showing that Ivermectin is even close to being effective as a Covid treatment. Until a real clinical trial is run, I'd be very suspicious.

 

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15 minutes ago, βhyde said:

 

^ is this the study you are citing? The other cites you posted were for Ivermectin use in treating parasitic infections and malaria. Neither of those studies mention Covid.

The American Therapeutics study above, as I have already discussed, has been shown to be flawed if not completely discredited.

I'm not against studying alternative treatments for Covid, that's always a good idea, but at this time there is little evidence showing that Ivermectin is even close to being effective as a Covid treatment. Until a real clinical trial is run, I'd be very suspicious.

 

Conclusion

Two doses of oral ivermectin (300 μg/kg/dose given 72 hours apart) as chemoprophylaxis among HCWs reduced the risk of COVID-19 infection by 83% in the following month. Safe, effective, and low-cost chemoprophylaxis has relevance in the containment of pandemic alongside vaccine.

https://www.cureus.com/articles/64807-prophylactic-role-of-ivermectin-in-severe-acute-respiratory-syndrome-coronavirus-2-infection-among-healthcare-workers

 

F47BF0A7-2831-405A-BC06-50C1C3CA2E58.png

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Dumb, no one is shouting down research. We're just laughing at you.

In fact, if you look at the AMA release, it specifically exempts clinical trials. That's not shouting down research. And these trials aren't regulated by our communist government. Maybe Liberty University has a trial you can join. Hell, you could even do your own research.

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3 minutes ago, Olsonist said:

Dumb, no one is shouting down research. We're just laughing at you.

In fact, if you look at the AMA release, it specifically exempts clinical trials. That's not shouting down research. And these trials aren't regulated by our communist government. Maybe Liberty University has a trial you can join. Hell, you could even do your own research.

Yeah, it’s not like we are blocking the entrances of tractor supply stores to prevent people from seeking the medical services they choose. 

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5 minutes ago, chum said:

ok bullshitter.

Is that like when you called me a "bullshitter" for saying that you're exactly the kind of RWNJ pinhead who posts anti-vax stuff and promotes ivermectin?

And here we are.

2 minutes ago, El Borracho said:

Yeah, it’s not like we are blocking the entrances of tractor supply stores to prevent people from seeking the medical services they choose. 

Bingo. I think people who choose to not get vaccinated but instead take Ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine should run right down to the feed store and buy all they want.

- DSK

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15 minutes ago, chum said:

I disagree with your assertion that there is little evidence, based on what Ive read and posted, but we just have to disagree, no need for hurling insults.

That's cool with me. We can disagree. No worries. But my money is on a vaccine that's 98% effective rather than something that is 9% better than nothing (maybe).

I don't recall ever hurling an insult at you in this thread or any other thread. Did I?

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