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Sailboat collided with Aircraft Carrier


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1 hour ago, Panoramix said:

In the middle of tie ocean as far as COLREGS are concerned, an aircraft carrier is an ordinary ship! So to answer your question,  most of the time if you are sailing... though if you are skippering a boat fast enough to overtake, the aircraft carrier is the privileged boat.

So Frenchmen, be sure to give way to the bird farms. Hehehe.

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2 hours ago, Jean-Baptiste said:

Carriers move in an exclusion zone with support ships, oilers, air defense ships and submarines. The de Gaulle travelled in a 10km bubble at sea, any approaching vessel was warned off. Breaching the bubble gets a destroyer and aviation assets headed your way.

Surprising to me even inshore a sailboat could get that close as that is a huge security issue.

friend sailing in San Diego bay says the carriers get a rib escort that have mounted .50 cals..   i would assume if you tried to get close an aeration would be in order..   I'm sure the Cole is still in the back of everyone's minds..

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2 hours ago, Jean-Baptiste said:

Carriers move in an exclusion zone with support ships, oilers, air defense ships and submarines. The de Gaulle travelled in a 10km bubble at sea, any approaching vessel was warned off. Breaching the bubble gets a destroyer and aviation assets headed your way.

Surprising to me even inshore a sailboat could get that close as that is a huge security issue.

Yes, but that wasn't the initial question!

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9 hours ago, Jean-Baptiste said:

Carriers move in an exclusion zone with support ships, oilers, air defense ships and submarines. The de Gaulle travelled in a 10km bubble at sea, any approaching vessel was warned off. Breaching the bubble gets a destroyer and aviation assets headed your way.

Surprising to me even inshore a sailboat could get that close as that is a huge security issue.

Too right!  If that Polish solo sailor had launched his aircraft or fired off some of his missiles, the carrier woud have been toast.

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14 hours ago, Mid said:
Americans: Please divert your course 15 degrees to the North to avoid a collision.
Canadians: Recommend you divert YOUR course 15 degrees to the South to avoid a collision.
Americans: This is the Captain of a US Navy ship. I say again, divert YOUR course.
Canadians: No. I say again, you divert YOUR course.
Americans: This is the aircraft carrier USS Lincoln, the second largest ship in the United States' Atlantic fleet. We are accompanied by three destroyers, three cruisers and numerous support vessels. I demand that YOU change your course 15 degrees north, that's one five degrees north, or countermeasures will be undertaken to ensure the safety of this ship.
Canadians: This is a lighthouse. Your call.[2]

Sounds like a great joke.. I've heard several variations of this..

Then... read about the Honda Point disaster:

Quote

The Honda Point disaster was the largest peacetime loss of U.S. Navy ships. On the evening of September 8, 1923, seven destroyers, while traveling at 20 knots (37 km/h), ran aground at Honda Point (also known as Point Pedernales; the cliffs just off-shore called Devil's Jaw), a few miles from the northern side of the Santa Barbara Channel off Point Arguello on the coast in Santa Barbara County, California. Two other ships grounded, but were able to maneuver free off the rocks. Twenty-three sailors died in the disaster.

No lighthouse on that cockup... :(

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11 hours ago, Grande Mastere Dreade said:

friend sailing in San Diego bay says the carriers get a rib escort that have mounted .50 cals..   i would assume if you tried to get close an aeration would be in order..   I'm sure the Cole is still in the back of everyone's minds..

I experienced this in San Diego.. but.. around ( 32.68770801327271, -117.22999602423707 ) at the entrance to San Diego Harbour...

Suddenly lots of chatter on VHF and RIB's with big guns and men with serious faces....  I was sailing single-handed at the time (no engine) out to the ocean.

They came round looked and told me to continue on my way.. and.. suddenly to my port.. a sub arose from the relative shallows...

Pretty interesting,.. wish I had video of the moment.. as it was quite surreal...

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12 minutes ago, h20man said:
14 hours ago, Mid said:
Americans: Please divert your course 15 degrees to the North to avoid a collision.
Canadians: Recommend you divert YOUR course 15 degrees to the South to avoid a collision.
Americans: This is the Captain of a US Navy ship. I say again, divert YOUR course.
Canadians: No. I say again, you divert YOUR course.
Americans: This is the aircraft carrier USS Lincoln, the second largest ship in the United States' Atlantic fleet. We are accompanied by three destroyers, three cruisers and numerous support vessels. I demand that YOU change your course 15 degrees north, that's one five degrees north, or countermeasures will be undertaken to ensure the safety of this ship.
Canadians: This is a lighthouse. Your call.[2]
Expand  Expand  

Sounds like a great joke.. I've heard several variations of this..

Then... read about the Honda Point disaster:

Quote

The Honda Point disaster was the largest peacetime loss of U.S. Navy ships. On the evening of September 8, 1923, seven destroyers, while traveling at 20 knots (37 km/h), ran aground at Honda Point (also known as Point Pedernales; the cliffs just off-shore called Devil's Jaw), a few miles from the northern side of the Santa Barbara Channel off Point Arguello on the coast in Santa Barbara County, California. Two other ships grounded, but were able to maneuver free off the rocks. Twenty-three sailors died in the disaster.

No lighthouse on that cockup...:(

Yep.

Modern version of the Scilly Isles fleet grounding under Admiral Shovell, 1707

- DSK

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Singapore has yuuuge optimist fleets - like 200 boats. Sometimes they have regattas at the Naval Yacht Club which is located right net to the Changi Naval Base.  Everyone knows that Singapore is not kidding with their restricted military zones, but kids in optimists are kids in Optimist and of course when there is no wind they begin drifting around waiting for the breeze and of course some begin drifting towards the naval base.  A number got too close and the guards on the base got on the hailer and racked a 50 cal. Suddenly there was a flurry of paddling away. 

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On 11/12/2021 at 12:25 PM, longy said:

At least both boats were moving. Here in San Diego, TWO sailboats have been dismasted by attempting to sail under the overhanging bow/flight deck of the museum carrier 'Midway'

boat crashed to the USS Midway aircraft carrier museum in San Diego - YouTube

in all fairness the Midway could use more signage

pointing out that it is HUGE Gray Non-GivingWay Ship that may or may Not have anyone at the Wheel

preferably in many languages

+ the Midway has no fenders hanging to the exposed bits

it's Quite hard to see if you don't Look Up when you get too close

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On 11/12/2021 at 2:19 PM, George Dewey said:

Did you hear the one about the French aircraft carrier and the Polish sailboat? 

Were it not for the French navy, Washington would have got his kiester handed to him by the Brits at Yorktown. 

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2 minutes ago, AJ Oliver said:

Yeah, but sailors have such short memories . . 

especially when it enables them to denigrate others. 

Exactly, they can't even remember reading a post that was just a few posts higher on the same page. 

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5 hours ago, AJ Oliver said:

Were it not for the French navy, Washington would have got his kiester handed to him by the Brits at Yorktown. 

Umm, better read up on your History…Cornwallis had about 8000 men in Yorktown.  He had withdrawn to there from a less than successful invasion of North Carolina.  His troops were pretty battered and worn down.  He went to the Virginia coast specifically to maintain seaborne lines of communication with General Clinton’s large army in New York.   Washington had 5000 US troops under Lafayette block Cornwallis’s ability to escape by land.  He also had 2500 US troops with him in New York.  So they were pretty even from a troop numbers standpoint (US vs British) .  The French contributed about 4000 men to Washington in New York, and landed another 3000 from the French fleet.  So while both the French Fleet and French Troops were pivotal in helping the US win, there is little evidence to support the idea that Cornwallis would have handed Washington’s kiester to him.    
Had the British been able to reinforce Cornwallis (which absent the French fleet, they would have likely been able to do), Washington would never have tried to engage them at Yorktown…

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6 hours ago, DA-WOODY said:

in all fairness the Midway could use more signage

pointing out that it is HUGE Gray Non-GivingWay Ship that may or may Not have anyone at the Wheel

preferably in many languages

+ the Midway has no fenders hanging to the exposed bits

it's Quite hard to see if you don't Look Up when you get too close

That's the difference between active aircraft carriers with their bevy of armed safety boats and museum ships attached to wharves!

 

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14 hours ago, h20man said:

I experienced this in San Diego.. but.. around ( 32.68770801327271, -117.22999602423707 ) at the entrance to San Diego Harbour...

Suddenly lots of chatter on VHF and RIB's with big guns and men with serious faces....  I was sailing single-handed at the time (no engine) out to the ocean.

They came round looked and told me to continue on my way.. and.. suddenly to my port.. a sub arose from the relative shallows...

Pretty interesting,.. wish I had video of the moment.. as it was quite surreal...

I hate submarines and I always feel uneasy sailing near one because I know they have the habit of popping up from underneath you and poking a hole in your hull with their snorkel, then dive away again and let you sink because everything they do is so super top secret that they just cannot help you, sorry sir.  

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1 hour ago, 10thTonner said:

I hate submarines and I always feel uneasy sailing near one because I know they have the habit of popping up from underneath you and poking a hole in your hull with their snorkel, then dive away again and let you sink because everything they do is so super top secret that they just cannot help you, sorry sir.  

But hey when you’re in a sub and all of a sudden you break your snorkel, I should imagine life gets interesting real quick and no I don’t think sorry sir would be top of their list when in all hands damage control!

Damn, those silent running sailboaters…..

 

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Out in Saudi several of the Princes have coastal palaces. Moored just off shore of each is moored a BIG motor yacht, Kept full fueled and provisioned, just in case the kingdom goes pear shaped.. A friend (British) was captain of one of them... 

You did not approach within a couple of hundred yards or sail between them and the palace, as they were very likely to open up with something to make your day very unhappy..

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2 hours ago, Navig8tor said:

But hey when you’re in a sub and all of a sudden you break your snorkel, I should imagine life gets interesting real quick and no I don’t think sorry sir would be top of their list when in all hands damage control!

Damn, those silent running sailboaters…..

 

Damage control? I think a subs snorkel would go through 40mm of GRP without the crew even noticing (or admitting they noticed). Remember that incident with the Japanese trawler? That was steel IIRC. 

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13 minutes ago, 10thTonner said:

Damage control? I think a subs snorkel would go through 40mm of GRP without the crew even noticing (or admitting they noticed). Remember that incident with the Japanese trawler? That was steel IIRC. 

 

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Wasn’t there a case of a tug towing a barge just outside LA harbor that just went suddenly down, drowning a couple of crew? IIRC it was determined that a sub had snagged the tow bridle with its scope and instantly yanked the tug under. Yikes is right. I’ve had a sub surface about a hundred yards from our boat in the SD channel entrance and the sight of all that water peeling back over the bow, even at only ten knots or so, is truly awe inspiring. 

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Way back when...

https://www.thejournal.ie/shelga-state-papers-1984-1837788-Jan2015/

The fishing boat's skipper was asked, at a TV press conference, whether he thought it was a submarine that dragged the boat backwards and then down. He paused, looked disdainfully at the reporter, and said, in a broad Louth accent, "Well it hardly was a bus now, was it?"

Brilliant.

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On 11/17/2021 at 3:05 AM, Jean-Baptiste said:

Carriers move in an exclusion zone with support ships, oilers, air defense ships and submarines. The de Gaulle travelled in a 10km bubble at sea, any approaching vessel was warned off. Breaching the bubble gets a destroyer and aviation assets headed your way.

Surprising to me even inshore a sailboat could get that close as that is a huge security issue.

Unless, of course if you are in Swedish sub. At least US Navy was unable to find them in training combat. Later they rented said sub to improve sub defences.

1619469646_saab-gotland_1.jpg

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20 minutes ago, Pertsa said:

Unless, of course if you are in Swedish sub. At least US Navy was unable to find them in training combat. Later they rented said sub to improve sub defences.

1619469646_saab-gotland_1.jpg

AIP or battery sub is most quiet of all. Can turn off everything. U.S. has none. All strategic atomic stuff

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Nothing new about subs sinking sailboats.

Sub sinks sailboat after leaving Bangor

Lloyd PritchettSep 13th, 1994

By Lloyd Pritchett

Sun Staff

A Chilean patrol submarine heading home after maneuvers at the Naval Submarine Base Bangor collided with a 50-foot Canadian sailing vessel late Sunday, sinking it, Coast Guard officials said.

The 195-foot diesel-powered sub, the S.C. Thomson, was heading west through heavy fog in the Strait of Juan de Fuca at about 9 p.m. Sunday when it collided with the Moonglow, a sailboat owned by Jory Lord of British Columbia.

Lord was rescued by the sub's crew, but his 50-foot boat sank shortly after the collision, said Coast Guard Petty Officer 1st Class Brenda Flint Toledo.

The Thomson spent most of last week conducting drills, tests and exercises at the Bangor submarine base on Hood Canal.

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Sailing the Baltic on a big steel boat we got permission to cross a naval exercise area. Almost immediately we saw a periscope from a dieselboat in our lee. They came in so close that we could hit their periscope with an apple core. Stayed in our lee for three hours. I believe they used us as shield or decoy. Never been more serious about steering a straight course!

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On 11/16/2021 at 7:30 PM, Grande Mastere Dreade said:

friend sailing in San Diego bay says the carriers get a rib escort that have mounted .50 cals..   i would assume if you tried to get close an aeration would be in order..   I'm sure the Cole is still in the back of everyone's minds..

You should have seen what happened when the German guy I races with in HK wanted to take a swing by the US carrier in our way back to Disco Bay. We were run off by three boats! 2 ribs and the HK harbour police with a squad if marines aboard. Skipper didn't believe me when I told him we were getting to close. 

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On 11/17/2021 at 2:05 AM, Jean-Baptiste said:

Carriers move in an exclusion zone with support ships, oilers, air defense ships and submarines. The de Gaulle travelled in a 10km bubble at sea, any approaching vessel was warned off. Breaching the bubble gets a destroyer and aviation assets headed your way.

Surprising to me even inshore a sailboat could get that close as that is a huge security issue.

This is exactly what I always thought/have been led to believe. AFAIK the CdG is  France's only carrier - so all the more reason for an extremely high degree of protection.

But alas, apparently not so...(when the galley serves escargots they have priority...)

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5 minutes ago, tane said:

This is exactly what I always thought/have been led to believe. AFAIK the CdG is  France's only carrier - so all the more reason for an extremely high degree of protection.

But alas, apparently not so...(when the galley serves escargots they have priority...)

Yes but we have 4 bars onboard 3 enlisted and 1 officer. Limit is 1 drink every 24 hours. Americans more prudish about alcohol, sex and everything else and rather than small glass of wine with lunch drink Mountain Dew.

When we cross decked with American carriers we always found this quite strange. Adults treated like children.

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On 11/16/2021 at 8:05 PM, Jean-Baptiste said:

Carriers move in an exclusion zone with support ships, oilers, air defense ships and submarines. The de Gaulle travelled in a 10km bubble at sea, any approaching vessel was warned off. Breaching the bubble gets a destroyer and aviation assets headed your way.

Surprising to me even inshore a sailboat could get that close as that is a huge security issue.

 

1 hour ago, tane said:

This is exactly what I always thought/have been led to believe. AFAIK the CdG is  France's only carrier - so all the more reason for an extremely high degree of protection.

But alas, apparently not so...(when the galley serves escargots they have priority...)

The Charles de Gaulle was on a training mission, sailing unescorted, with no accompanying vessels. 

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42 minutes ago, PaulK said:

 

 

The Charles de Gaulle was on a training mission, sailing unescorted, with no accompanying vessels. 

No, 4 RIBS proceeding with a tug. Was significant error.

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2 hours ago, Jean-Baptiste said:

No, 4 RIBS proceeding with a tug. Was significant error.

Not according to this information.  Second article, in NICE MATIN, quotes skipper of Polish vessel, says the VN Rebel -  once it arrived on the scene - took him in tow to Hyères, where they arrived around 18h30 Friday night.  Youtube video, starting at about 1:55, identifies the RIBS with markings R... which show that they belong TO the carrier; are launched from it. Postings on French website HEO from ex Marine Nationale crew off of the CDG state that she often performs training without escorts. 

https://www.hisse-et-oh.com/sailing/pas-tres-active-la-veille-dans-la-marine-nationale-charles-de-gaulle-vs-voilier#61961a7a040dbf56a52f06e4

https://www.varmatin.com/faits-divers/un-voilier-entre-en-collision-avec-le-porte-avions-charles-de-gaulle-au-large-de-toulon-726715

Nice_Matin17.11.21.pdf

 

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Having been then and done that I can state that the view from the bridge of a carrier is significantly obscured by the flight deck and it can be easy to miss something small (i.e. a yacht) getting in close because you are pre-occupied with navigation, flight operations or whatever other evolution might be going on at the time. That being said CDG's bridge is significantly forward when compared to USN carriers.

BTW tug was ordered to the scene after the accident and the CDG's RHIB's were also only launched in response to collision - as she was operating independently at the time.

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2 hours ago, PaulK said:

Not according to this information.  Second article, in NICE MATIN, quotes skipper of Polish vessel, says the VN Rebel -  once it arrived on the scene - took him in tow to Hyères, where they arrived around 18h30 Friday night.  Youtube video, starting at about 1:55, identifies the RIBS with markings R... which show that they belong TO the carrier; are launched from it. Postings on French website HEO from ex Marine Nationale crew off of the CDG state that she often performs training without escorts. 

https://www.hisse-et-oh.com/sailing/pas-tres-active-la-veille-dans-la-marine-nationale-charles-de-gaulle-vs-voilier#61961a7a040dbf56a52f06e4

https://www.varmatin.com/faits-divers/un-voilier-entre-en-collision-avec-le-porte-avions-charles-de-gaulle-au-large-de-toulon-726715

Nice_Matin17.11.21.pdf

 

 

2 hours ago, PaulK said:

Not according to this information.  Second article, in NICE MATIN, quotes skipper of Polish vessel, says the VN Rebel -  once it arrived on the scene - took him in tow to Hyères, where they arrived around 18h30 Friday night.  Youtube video, starting at about 1:55, identifies the RIBS with markings R... which show that they belong TO the carrier; are launched from it. Postings on French website HEO from ex Marine Nationale crew off of the CDG state that she often performs training without escorts. 

https://www.hisse-et-oh.com/sailing/pas-tres-active-la-veille-dans-la-marine-nationale-charles-de-gaulle-vs-voilier#61961a7a040dbf56a52f06e4

https://www.varmatin.com/faits-divers/un-voilier-entre-en-collision-avec-le-porte-avions-charles-de-gaulle-au-large-de-toulon-726715

Nice_Matin17.11.21.pdf

 

I was in error, thank you for clarification.

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4 hours ago, matto said:

Having been then and done that I can state that the view from the bridge of a carrier is significantly obscured by the flight deck and it can be easy to miss something small (i.e. a yacht) getting in close because you are pre-occupied with navigation, flight operations or whatever other evolution might be going on at the time. That being said CDG's bridge is significantly forward when compared to USN carriers.

Do the French know about radar? 

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12 hours ago, Jean-Baptiste said:

Yes but we have 4 bars onboard 3 enlisted and 1 officer. Limit is 1 drink every 24 hours. Americans more prudish about alcohol, sex and everything else and rather than small glass of wine with lunch drink Mountain Dew.

When we cross decked with American carriers we always found this quite strange. Adults treated like children.

Yes - and they even are not allowed to carry their individual guns abord and miraculously are fine with this

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11 hours ago, matto said:

Having been then and done that I can state that the view from the bridge of a carrier is significantly obscured by the flight deck and it can be easy to miss something small (i.e. a yacht) getting in close because you are pre-occupied with navigation, flight operations or whatever other evolution might be going on at the time. 

But surely when operating in coastal waters they have lookouts who's main role is not to be distracted by navigation and flight operations?

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