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Homeless. Ideas?


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It is getting cold in Colorado, some of us do our best to help with money, sleeping bags, maybe a warm place to sleep if we have access. But it is like bailing a rowboat with a hole in it; so much need, an unstoppable current of need.

Seems silly to endlessly debate politics while people nearly freeze to death.

I had one idea ... these homeless camps tend to be near light posts and public infrastructure, at least as a stopgap, what about setting up metered electrical usage, and using some pennies of public funds to distribute things like tents, old cars, electric space heaters, water, and electric commodes to process human waste? The Obama phones were a step in the right direction, seems we could expand that program a bit at least until we can figure out a long-term solution?

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1 hour ago, Bus Driver said:

Invest in metal health initiatives.  Far too many on the street suffer from mental illness and society chooses to look the other way.

That's exactly what happened here.

After the Charter of Rights was enshrined in law the mental hospitals were emptied out - the poor souls in them had "the right" to live in squalor on the street instead of being housed and fed and at least somewhat cared for in institutions.

They went from being a health problem to a policing problem.

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1 hour ago, mikewof said:

It is getting cold in Colorado, some of us do our best to help with money, sleeping bags, maybe a warm place to sleep if we have access. But it is like bailing a rowboat with a hole in it; so much need, an unstoppable current of need.

Seems silly to endlessly debate politics while people nearly freeze to death.

I had one idea ... these homeless camps tend to be near light posts and public infrastructure, at least as a stopgap, what about setting up metered electrical usage, and using some pennies of public funds to distribute things like tents, old cars, electric space heaters, water, and electric commodes to process human waste? The Obama phones were a step in the right direction, seems we could expand that program a bit at least until we can figure out a long-term solution?

 

Logistically, I think old Malls would work well.

They're contained with HVAC, loading docks, plumbing etc.  They're almost always on public transportation lines. They have loading docks for freight and good public access.

Restructure the inner layout of the individual stores to accommodate smaller groups in apartment-lite clusters.  Use the anchor store space to provide medical services (including detox), social workers/legal services, and policing/fire services.  I would include a small school, vocational training, and adult job training.  Add in a small grocery store, pharmacy, and post office/banking services, and that would cover most of the hierarchy of need issues.

Most malls had some form of entertainment (movies and play areas) as well as cafeteria type food services.  So there's decent activities to reduce boredom and mischief.

I'd keep the focus on transitioning - get people stable, address their immediate short/medium term problems (4-8 weeks) and hopefully, transition them to permanent solutions, depending on their true issues.  There could also be some limited jobs including custodial services, stocking / service jobs, and maybe even some warehouse functions since these old malls often share space with fulfillment centers.

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Government housing is problematic. Partly because the capitalist vultures tend to vacuum up the money. Partly because (Americans in particular) often have little sense of community, commons, cleanliness. Partly because it simply doesn’t work. 
 

Direct payments? Minimum basic income? Let them figure it out on their own. Enough to pay for food, shelter, therapy, education. The magic hand and all. Worth a try. Very libertarian, right?

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1 minute ago, El Borracho said:

Government housing is problematic. Partly because the capitalist vultures tend to vacuum up the money. Partly because (Americans in particular) often have little sense of community, commons, cleanliness. Partly because it simply doesn’t work. 
 

Direct payments? Minimum basic income? Let them figure it out on their own. Enough to pay for food, shelter, therapy, education. The magic hand and all. Worth a try. Very libertarian, right?

Giving money to the poor is not Libertarian. The exact opposite, in fact.

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4 minutes ago, El Borracho said:

Government housing is problematic. Partly because the capitalist vultures corrupt politicians constantly award housing contracts to their friends and help them tend to vacuum up the money and then kick some of it back to the politician's charity/foundation. Partly because (Americans in particular) often have little sense of community, commons, cleanliness. Partly because it simply doesn’t work. 
 

Direct payments? Minimum basic income? Let them figure it out on their own. Enough to pay for food, shelter, therapy, education. The magic hand and all. Worth a try. Very libertarian, right?

Just saying

Maybe if they got the do-gooder activist out of the way and put more oversight on where, how, and when money is getting spent we could put a pretty good dent in the problem. 

2 hours ago, mikewof said:

It is getting cold in Colorado, some of us do our best to help with money, sleeping bags, maybe a warm place to sleep if we have access. But it is like bailing a rowboat with a hole in it; so much need, an unstoppable current of need.

Seems silly to endlessly debate politics while people nearly freeze to death.

I had one idea ... these homeless camps tend to be near light posts and public infrastructure, at least as a stopgap, what about setting up metered electrical usage, and using some pennies of public funds to distribute things like tents, old cars, electric space heaters, water, and electric commodes to process human waste? The Obama phones were a step in the right direction, seems we could expand that program a bit at least until we can figure out a long-term solution?

Why not just put them on a bus and ship them off to New Mexico, there is no problem, problem solved..    Oh!  That was already tried you say?

https://newmexiconewsport.com/are-other-states-sending-their-homeless-to-abq/

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11 minutes ago, El Borracho said:

Government housing is problematic. Partly because the capitalist vultures tend to vacuum up the money. Partly because (Americans in particular) often have little sense of community, commons, cleanliness. Partly because it simply doesn’t work. 
 

Direct payments? Minimum basic income? Let them figure it out on their own. Enough to pay for food, shelter, therapy, education. The magic hand and all. Worth a try. Very libertarian, right?

Figure out what it’ll cost, triple it, give 2/3 to billionaires and use the last third to address the problem. 

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2 minutes ago, BravoBravo said:

Oh just like The Great Society .… tear down one old abused and vandalized government rat house and build another 

the street people seem to be quite satisfied with their status quo last thing they need is more hand wringing bleeding heart liberal’s ushering more “help”

if anything worked we’d have see it by now. 
it might not seem to you that they are not happy, but they actually are 

So you didn’t read the post?

You might be mistaken about the joys of homelessness. Even if the homeless like it, I don’t. Nobody would be required to participate. 

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1 hour ago, BeSafe said:

 

Logistically, I think old Malls would work well.

They're contained with HVAC, loading docks, plumbing etc.  They're almost always on public transportation lines. They have loading docks for freight and good public access.

Restructure the inner layout of the individual stores to accommodate smaller groups in apartment-lite clusters.  Use the anchor store space to provide medical services (including detox), social workers/legal services, and policing/fire services.  I would include a small school, vocational training, and adult job training.  Add in a small grocery store, pharmacy, and post office/banking services, and that would cover most of the hierarchy of need issues.

Most malls had some form of entertainment (movies and play areas) as well as cafeteria type food services.  So there's decent activities to reduce boredom and mischief.

I'd keep the focus on transitioning - get people stable, address their immediate short/medium term problems (4-8 weeks) and hopefully, transition them to permanent solutions, depending on their true issues.  There could also be some limited jobs including custodial services, stocking / service jobs, and maybe even some warehouse functions since these old malls often share space with fulfillment centers.

Old malls ?

yikes 

the malls would turn into a war zone , Dante’s inferno

thr best solution for a place  like Colorado is greyhound buses 

put them into the bus then ship them  to California 

 

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8 minutes ago, BravoBravo said:

Yep! 
after that experience in their “formative years “

might as well start a business training feral cats. 
there have always been that demographic in man’s history, sometimes tolerated like here and now and other times…. See China and every other totalitarian regime… they disappear and the problem goes away 

What is your point?

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9 minutes ago, BravoBravo said:

It has always been a part of man’s history… then offered the two most efficient ways to address it. 

Or we could work to minimize the trauma, abuse and neglect that happens in society.

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11 minutes ago, BravoBravo said:

That happens under the roofs they grow in 

have any practical ideas that don’t trample all over Constitutional rights? 

Yes. A large percentage of trauma and abuse happens when families are under financial stress. Decrease the wealth gap so that the middle and even lower-middle class can afford to be comfortable. Give the middle class the same wealth they had in the 50's, 60's, 70's and 80's. Back when America was great (at least at wealth distribution). Make it like that again.

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4 minutes ago, BravoBravo said:

BULLSHIT… the privileged are not competing for blue collar jobs that can provide home ownership, raising their families in a stable environment. 
“wealth inequality “ what the fuck is that ? 
That implies that there is such a thing as “wealth equality “ 

WTF?  What planet are you living on?  US wealth inequality below: 

400px-US_Wealth_Inequality_-_v2.png

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4 hours ago, quod umbra said:

... Thing is though, are not the majority of criminals also suffering from mental defect? I would submit that they are indeed. You just don't go around hurting, robbing and killing unless you have a screw loose. We just deal with it differently once someone crosses that line......

It troubles me that we treat the plain homeless, the drug homeless, the crazy homeless, the walking wounded homeless all worse than we treat the crooked ones. 

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2 minutes ago, Rain Man said:

WTF?  What planet are you living on?  US wealth inequality below: 

400px-US_Wealth_Inequality_-_v2.png

Folks like the asshole to whom you are replying act as if it is the fault of the poor that they chose to be born into poverty. 

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58 minutes ago, BravoBravo said:

I stopped at families… maybe in a strict biological / legal definition 

certainly not in a nurturing loving definition, more accurately a bio ticket for government hands outs or a failure to use free birth control 

 

Dafuq do you even mean? Your ramblings are incoherent. Try harder.

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48 minutes ago, BravoBravo said:

“wealth inequality “ what the fuck is that ? 
That implies that there is such a thing as “wealth equality “ 

It's not binary. There are degrees. These things can seem complicated to some people, but they really aren't.

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6 hours ago, BravoBravo said:

How about building fenced in camps where food and shelter are provided in exchange for staying in there. 
Believe it or not the street people are content with their lot in life. MYOB 

Genius! We'll put them in open air prisons! You should run a business plan by the CCA.

causes-of-homelessness.jpg

503-facts-2.jpg

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4 minutes ago, BravoBravo said:

They created that wealth, go for it “ git sum “ 

too many examples of first generation wealth  created, I am not going to bother with examples from 

Please sober up before you make any more posts.

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2 hours ago, Rain Man said:

WTF?  What planet are you living on?  US wealth inequality below: 

400px-US_Wealth_Inequality_-_v2.png

I came to this country with little more than the shirt on my back.

I and many many like me including my wife came here with absolutely nothing and became very successful.

Wealth inequality has little to do with homelessness. 

 

If you really give a fuck about homelessness then like the alcoholic, if you really want to work on the problem then the first step is to admit what the causes of the  problem is.

 

 

And for all of you knuckeldraggers who don’t know, the vast majority of homeless people have either substance addiction or mental health issues.

 


 

But that doesn’t suit the narrative of the stupid fuckers searching for a cause.

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12 minutes ago, Sea warrior said:

And for all of you knuckeldraggers who don’t know, the vast majority of homeless people have either substance addiction or mental health issues.

I have previously agreed with this premise, earlier in this thread. So the question becomes, what causes the mental health and substance abuse issues? And conveniently, I have also already answered that question previously in this thread. And what can we do about that issue? Oh yes, also previously answered by me, in this thread.

Try to keep up.

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16 minutes ago, Sea warrior said:

I came to this country with little more than the shirt on my back.

I and many many like me including my wife came here with absolutely nothing and became very successful.

Wealth inequality has little to do with homelessness. 

 

If you really give a fuck about homelessness then like the alcoholic, if you really want to work on the problem then the first step is to admit what the causes of the  problem is.

 

 

And for all of you knuckeldraggers who don’t know, the vast majority of homeless people have either substance addiction or mental health issues.

 


 

But that doesn’t suit the narrative of the stupid fuckers searching for a cause.

Did you also come with no education, no skills, no idea of how to get a job because  you had never had one before?

As our younger generation grows up knowing that there is no chance they will ever own a house, or even a condo, we will see more of this:

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2021/feb/04/modern-nomads-nomadland-van-life-us-public-lands

There are certainly some who choose to live in their vehicles, but most would prefer not to.  Most are forced to do it by economic circumstances.  And there is certainly a component of privilege in determining one's opportunities in life.  

I'll bet you arrived with an education as well as a shirt on your back, for example.

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12 minutes ago, Rain Man said:

Did you also come with no education, no skills, no idea of how to get a job because  you had never had one before?

I'll bet you arrived with an education as well as a shirt on your back, for example.

lol
My wife didn’t even speak the language and had approximately $50 in her pocket when she arrived in this country, with no contacts and no safety net whatsoever. But she worked hard, held her head high, Dressed and acted in an appropriate and decent manner and magically, the big bad white man opened doors for her.

 

 I did and do have an education but it was little use to me in the beginning due to among other things an inability to transfer the credits. 
As such, I had to start at the bottom, taking every menial low paying job that I could to support myself.

But I kept clear of drugs and for the most part, alcohol and took a few educated gambles on property and contracts which elevated me to a position where I could advance to the next rung of the ladder.

I’m not suggesting that it is easy, it is not but the opportunities are there for all if people so desire to work hard.

 

 

Almost All those homeless people have a humongous advantage over me and my fellow immigrants in that they were born here, in one of the wealthiest countries in the world. And Unlike me and other immigrants, they didn’t have to fight the impossible fight to obtain a green card, they didn’t have to acclimatize themselves to the culture and they could blend in in society much easier than us folks with funny accents.

 

Whilst this country has definitely slipped, people are still flocking here in droves and they are still making it here.

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2 minutes ago, Sea warrior said:

You really think I read your gibberish?
 

 

 

 

 

 

lol

And there it is. The modern "conservative" in action. Everything is about owning the libs, and nothing is about actually making America great.

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41 minutes ago, Rain Man said:

Did you also come with no education, no skills, no idea of how to get a job because  you had never had one before?

As our younger generation grows up knowing that there is no chance they will ever own a house, or even a condo, we will see more of this:

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2021/feb/04/modern-nomads-nomadland-van-life-us-public-lands

There are certainly some who choose to live in their vehicles, but most would prefer not to.  Most are forced to do it by economic circumstances.  And there is certainly a component of privilege in determining one's opportunities in life.  

I'll bet you arrived with an education as well as a shirt on your back, for example.

I wouldn't take that bet. Seems like Sea worrier is more likely the type who came here, probably as a political refugee from some tin pot dictatorship, and bull shitted his way through life. (If he actually "arrived" here. Something tells me he was probably born in Indiana, or Oklahoma.)

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9 minutes ago, Nice! said:

And there it is. The modern "conservative" in action. Everything is about owning the libs, and nothing is about actually making America great.

I consider being called a “conservative” to be an ad hominem attack.

 

There is a distinct difference between being a realist and being a conservative.

 

 

 

 

 

Lol

 

lol

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1 minute ago, Sea warrior said:

I consider being called a “conservative” to be an ad hominem attack.

 

There is a distinct difference between being a realist and being a conservative.

 

Wait... I thought you don't read what I write.

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6 minutes ago, Mrleft8 said:

I wouldn't take that bet. Seems like Sea worrier is more likely the type who came here, probably as a political refugee from some tin pot dictatorship, and bull shitted his way through life. (If he actually "arrived" here. Something tells me he was probably born in Indiana, or Oklahoma.)

Speaking of bets, care to put your money (if you have any) where your mouth is?
How about a $1000.00?

If I’m not an immigrant and if my wife is not an immigrant as I claim,  I’ll donate $1000 dollars to a homeless charity of your choosing.

 

if indeed I am and also, my wife is an immigrant then you donate $1000.00 to a homeless charity of my choosing?

 There are plenty of posters here from the grater Chicago area who I’m sure will be more than happy to confirm my statement.

 


 

Ps.

Something tells me that you have a substance abuse problem.

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12 hours ago, Sea warrior said:

lol
My wife didn’t even speak the language and had approximately $50 in her pocket when she arrived in this country, with no contacts and no safety net whatsoever. But she worked hard, held her head high, Dressed and acted in an appropriate and decent manner and magically, the big bad white man opened doors for her.

 

 I did and do have an education but it was little use to me in the beginning due to among other things an inability to transfer the credits. 
As such, I had to start at the bottom, taking every menial low paying job that I could to support myself.

But I kept clear of drugs and for the most part, alcohol and took a few educated gambles on property and contracts which elevated me to a position where I could advance to the next rung of the ladder.

I’m not suggesting that it is easy, it is not but the opportunities are there for all if people so desire to work hard.

 

 

Almost All those homeless people have a humongous advantage over me and my fellow immigrants in that they were born here, in one of the wealthiest countries in the world. And Unlike me and other immigrants, they didn’t have to fight the impossible fight to obtain a green card, they didn’t have to acclimatize themselves to the culture and they could blend in in society much easier than us folks with funny accents.

 

Whilst this country has definitely slipped, people are still flocking here in droves and they are still making it here.

That what’s important ….legal immigration requires application and approval

it works

 

the system selects achievers who rapidly contribute to society with minimum government assistance  

It’s possible that  legal immigration quotas need to be increased  to account for demographics and the high proportion of Americans who are unable , because of education , incarceration ,drugs , liberal tendencies …. to contribute to society 

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13 minutes ago, slug zitski said:

That what’s important ….legal immigration requires application and approval

it works

 

the system selects achievers who rapidly contribute to society with minimum government assistance  

It’s possible that  legal immigration quotas need to be increased  to account for demographics and the high proportion of Americans who are unable , because of education , incarceration ,drugs , liberal tendencies …. to contribute to society 

I won a lottery visa.

look up the “Donnelly visa”

 

Its the only effing thing I ever won in my life.

And, if you knew my full life story you’d recognize that that is beyond ironic.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

lol

 

 

 

 

 

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18 minutes ago, Sea warrior said:

I won a lottery visa.

look up the “Donnelly visa”

 

Its the only effing thing I ever won in my life.

And, if you knew my full life story you’d recognize that that is beyond ironic.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

lol

 

 

 

 

 

Yah that lottery system was set up to address visa quota irregularities 

western countries …Europe , Ireland Italy  were the intended beneficiaries 

plenty of Canadians used the lottery 

I don’t know what the present status of the  lottery is 

 

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8 minutes ago, slug zitski said:

Yah that lottery system was set up to address visa quota irregularities 

western countries …Europe , Ireland Italy  were the intended beneficiaries 

plenty of Canadians used the lottery 

I don’t know what the present status of the  lottery is 

 

Apparently there's a quota now for angry leprechauns with brain damage

LOL

- DSK

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4 hours ago, slug zitski said:

My wife didn’t even speak the language and had approximately $50 in her pocket when she arrived in this country, with no contacts and no safety net whatsoever. But she worked hard, held her head high, Dressed and acted in an appropriate and decent manner and magically, the big bad white man opened doors for her.

<Sea warrior said this not slug. But I have him on ignore.>

So she arrive in the US with $50. Let's assume she arrived as most do, at the airport.

She needs to leave the airport so maybe $2 for a bus fare away from the airport. She's clever and drinks a lot of water from a drinking fountain at the airport

Food might be an issue - she might go to a grocery store and buy an apple or a few buns (fruit and bread are often the cheapest form of food if you can't cook).

Now she has maybe $45. 

- where is she going to spend the night?
- how is she going to feed herself before a first paycheque (typically in 2 weeks time)?
- she'll be industrious and want to drop off some resumes but has no computer, no printer, etc. Maybe she goes to a public library where they have these things but they want her to have a local address before she can get a library card to use a computer
- she can apply to local businesses but they might want to call her. But she doesn't have enough money for a phone, a pre-paid phone card etc.

That's the situation the homeless find themselves in. Some do choose the streets due to mental illness or drug addiction etc. But there are lots of others that are trapped there with not a lot of help to get out.

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But the opportunity is here. Why do we see the downtrodden coming to America and Canada rather than leaving?

The homeless are a huge cash cow for many Govt. agencies. My favorite example is Seattle which squeezes $100,000 annually from the taxpayers for every single homeless person there.

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3 minutes ago, quod umbra said:

Ahhhh that superior leftist logic.
God forbid homeless street people risk contracting AIDS. How would that look?
Better they die from heroin laced with fentanyl  Looks so much better of the Death Certificate!

Not sure why you think it's about how it "looks"

It's $s and pennies. 

These folks are going to be on the counties dime at their hospital. Seems like a pretty good ROI decision.

(and you seem to think that needles are something that addicts can't get. So untrue. Needles are available from their dealer. Clean needles, not so much.)

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7 minutes ago, quod umbra said:

Ahhhh that superior leftist logic.
God forbid homeless street people risk contracting AIDS. How would that look?
Better they die from heroin laced with fentanyl  Looks so much better of the Death Certificate!

You really are a shitty human being, aren't you?

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One practical aspect.   Documentation.   There have been well publicized cases of people that are theoretically protected under existing social nets like military veterans, people old enough for social security, disability (real, the the fake type populating rural trailer courts in order to obtain healthcare when they can't afford insurance).   These are people where help would be available, except they became homeless.   No address or no ID and you don't exist.    Others lost bank access due to account inactivity or overdraft fees.    The first step on a long journey is a small step, but forward progress even politicians might agree to.   Bank rules designed to eliminate customers that don't generate a profit and government safeguards against fraud prevent it.   

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Just now, quod umbra said:

How so? Because I do not think society/government should be facilitators in the addict's slow march to suicide? .....bastard that I am.

One can argue over the management and facilitation policy. And even though yours is wrong, that doesn't make you a bad person. Your cavalier who-gives-a-fuck attitude when people's lives are involved does that.

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5 hours ago, Zonker said:

<Sea warrior said this not slug. But I have him on ignore.>

So she arrive in the US with $50. Let's assume she arrived as most do, at the airport.

She needs to leave the airport so maybe $2 for a bus fare away from the airport. She's clever and drinks a lot of water from a drinking fountain at the airport

Food might be an issue - she might go to a grocery store and buy an apple or a few buns (fruit and bread are often the cheapest form of food if you can't cook).

Now she has maybe $45. 

- where is she going to spend the night?
- how is she going to feed herself before a first paycheque (typically in 2 weeks time)?
- she'll be industrious and want to drop off some resumes but has no computer, no printer, etc. Maybe she goes to a public library where they have these things but they want her to have a local address before she can get a library card to use a computer
- she can apply to local businesses but they might want to call her. But she doesn't have enough money for a phone, a pre-paid phone card etc.

That's the situation the homeless find themselves in. Some do choose the streets due to mental illness or drug addiction etc. But there are lots of others that are trapped there with not a lot of help to get out.

Lol

 

 

She arrived at an airport having already secured a job on a cruise ship.


 

Don’t quit your day job Clouseau.

 

 

Dummy!!!!

 

 

 

 

lol

 

 

Oh, and will someone quote me (or not) for the delicate little flower 

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23 hours ago, Sea warrior said:

Speaking of bets, care to put your money (if you have any) where your mouth is?
How about a $1000.00?

If I’m not an immigrant and if my wife is not an immigrant as I claim,  I’ll donate $1000 dollars to a homeless charity of your choosing.

 

if indeed I am and also, my wife is an immigrant then you donate $1000.00 to a homeless charity of my choosing?

 There are plenty of posters here from the grater Chicago area who I’m sure will be more than happy to confirm my statement.

 


 

Ps.

Something tells me that you have a substance abuse problem.

@Mrleft8

 

Are you going to take me up on this bet or are you going to stay holed up in your rat’s burrow?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

lol

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1 hour ago, Joethecobbler said:

Have any of you self proclaimed social warriors ever spent a year or two " homeless" ?

I'd presume - no.

After living aboard , mostly on the hook, up and down the Coast of Florida for 20 years and encountering thousands of " homeless", I have realized the " homeless" is a generic blanket label .

The truth is their stories vary as widely as the stars in the sky.

Some , more than you'd imagine, choose that lifestyle and have no desire to change.

They work in the gig economy, panhandle, day labor.

Many cities have daily meals available for free.

Church organizations offer no strings assistance in the. Form of food, clothing,etc.

Spend a few months on the street amongst them and you'll come away with a different opinion.

Until then, you're just guessing about something you've never done.

How does "living on the hook" provide a better sense of the situation than anyone else who encounters thousands of homeless?

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1 minute ago, Bus Driver said:
1 hour ago, Joethecobbler said:

...

How does "living on the hook" provide a better sense of the situation than anyone else who encounters thousands of homeless?

 

It's as much of an illogical fantasy as his bragging about beating up school kids.

- DSK

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On 11/14/2021 at 9:02 AM, mikewof said:

It is getting cold in Colorado, some of us do our best to help with money, sleeping bags, maybe a warm place to sleep if we have access. But it is like bailing a rowboat with a hole in it; so much need, an unstoppable current of need.

Seems silly to endlessly debate politics while people nearly freeze to death.

I had one idea ... these homeless camps tend to be near light posts and public infrastructure, at least as a stopgap, what about setting up metered electrical usage, and using some pennies of public funds to distribute things like tents, old cars, electric space heaters, water, and electric commodes to process human waste? The Obama phones were a step in the right direction, seems we could expand that program a bit at least until we can figure out a long-term solution?

Maybe bus them to LA where it's warmer.  

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21 minutes ago, Joethecobbler said:

Not " school kids", class mates.

As is typical of the mentally challenged Left, you twist all to meet your narrative.

For example, if it's true it's " bragging"

You must have been one of the alligator mouths with the paper ass that got " schooled".

Do you still feel the answer to people who loudly disagree with you, and/or say things you don't like, is a fistfight?

You sound like one of the many internet tough guys who float around here for a while, then get flushed when they cross the line.

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4 minutes ago, Joethecobbler said:

Again, your desires to paint anything that you struggle with as an opportunity to further your dillusions.

The aggressors received their " due diligence" , just as Kyle served those who attacked him received.

 

Again with the non-answer.

I wonder why you are afraid to speak plainly and explain how you deal with conflict?

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Its always a much better education for children to play team sports, as is seriously obvious here.

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1 hour ago, Joethecobbler said:

There are a considerable amount of " homeless" living on floatsom in the snchrages in and around FL and other populated areas.

As such, when at these snchrages, you're neighbors  with them and see them and their actions every day.

Sometimes it's quite amusing, particularly during storms when their floatsom sinks and is cast ashore.

Daytona just hauled out a pile of them a bit ago.

Not to worry, they'll be back.

Yah 

all the flee bags living on boats is a problem 

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13 minutes ago, Joethecobbler said:

The taxpayer pays for everything the government does.

It wasn't always so, prior to income taxes and a miriad of other taxes, the USA had roads and military largely paid for by tariffs and import fees.

The tax payer empowers the authorities to improve and maintain the waterfront …removing flee bag garbage is a poor use of these funds 

local authorities must run these flee bags out of town 

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Might I just point out that not all homeless people are the same.

Different solutions needed for different issues.

Some just need a few months shelter, a clean safe warm bed, food, a clothing allowance a mobile phone and computer access  and support to get a practical job.

Some need just a clean warm safe place to sleep, food a shower and a regular change of clothes.

Some need medical attention and any or all of the above.

Some need a safe and regular way to support their habit. 

Some need space and the basic necessities.

Some need incarcerating. 

 

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15 hours ago, ShortForBob said:

 

Some need a safe and regular way to support their habit. 

Is  it the responsibility of society to support their 'habit'?

Some need space and the basic necessities.

Some need incarcerating. 

 

 

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1 minute ago, Lark said:

Some need a safe and regular way to support their habit. 

Is  it the responsibility of society to support their 'habit'?

Some need space and the basic necessities.

Some need incarcerating. 

Protective and proactive policing of the surrounding community. If they can get a clean fix free, they likely won't go burglarizing the locals.

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Just now, Ishmael said:

Protective and proactive policing of the surrounding community. If they can get a clean fix free, they likely won't go burglarizing the locals.

Giving clean fixes for free would certainly destroy the drug trade and put the pusher man out of business.  The locals would be much safer from burglary.   I'm not sure what it would do on a demand side.   Personally, I think its one of those services government probably shouldn't offer.   

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25 minutes ago, Lark said:

Giving clean fixes for free would certainly destroy the drug trade and put the pusher man out of business.  The locals would be much safer from burglary.   I'm not sure what it would do on a demand side.   Personally, I think its one of those services government probably shouldn't offer.   

Decriminalizing small quantities of drugs would be a step in the right direction, as would making sure the drugs were clean and not chock full of fentanyl and rat poison. Government would have to be involved at some point to make that happen. The experiments in Europe have shown very positive results.

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2 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

Decriminalizing small quantities of drugs would be a step in the right direction, as would making sure the drugs were clean and not chock full of fentanyl and rat poison. Government would have to be involved at some point to make that happen. The experiments in Europe have shown very positive results.

Decriminalizing small amounts or directing offenders into non criminal paths is reasonable,   Making drugs the next government cheese?   I’m more conservative.   Maybe a country that provides prescription medication can also provide recreational drugs.   I know which I’d prioritize.   

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11 hours ago, Lark said:

Some need a safe and regular way to support their habit. 

Is  it the responsibility of society to support their 'habit'?

Some need space and the basic necessities.

Some need incarcerating. 

Why not? It's the laws of society that's fucking with the price & availability of their drugs of choice.

Civilised First World countries already provide prescription medications at fixed and subsidised prices.

FKT

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24 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Why not? It's the laws of society that's fucking with the price & availability of their drugs of choice.

Civilised First World countries already provide prescription medications at fixed and subsidised prices.

FKT

Again , the taxpayer subsidizing dope heads 

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On 11/14/2021 at 12:10 PM, Bus Driver said:

Invest in metal health initiatives.  Far too many on the street suffer from mental illness and society chooses to look the other way.

What's really sad is all the veterans that are homeless, They risk their lives and we throw them to the street ,Many need mental and other type of help!

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Just now, quod umbra said:

My take is it is all the same thing. Whether homeless, incarcerated, generational welfare, the solution would look very similar.

Rehab
Bootcamp
Counseling
GED
Job Training
Job Placement

Now there likely would need to be ancillary support in the way of child care, healthcare and housing.
The goal is to bring those "dependent" on society to be able to fend for themselves.
I think corporate support and incentives to corporations to hire and continuing education would be paramount to success and necessary to be viable.

All in all, I am sick and tired of government warehousing or giving minimal sustenance to the less fortunate. That has to end. Taxpayers deserve a better ROI than simply supporting the dependent class.

 

I’ve had dope heads on the job , they are a waste of time and never last very long 

 

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23 minutes ago, quod umbra said:

So have I. The majority wanted to make it...... the real question is why didn't they?

Addiction is a scourge and for some reason some think it allows them to escape the pressures and disappointments of their own failures.

I have told this story before. Hired a guy who was transitioning from welfare to work. Great guy. Smart, sharp as a tack, always on time, polite, well spoken..... we were building machinery for a factory I was charged with setting up and bringing online.
Guy would show up every day with proper cloths, and a bow tie. It wasn't a terribly dirty environment but he was way over-dressed. He took pride in they way he looked. 
One day I happened to glance over at the crew during break. This guy was emptying the sugar cellar into his cup of coffee. I made comment on it.... like "Have a little coffee with your sugar!' He looked up at me, his eyes welled up with tears and he burst out crying. He told me he had been a recovering heroin addict, had fallen back into his addiction. He thanked me for the opportunity and walked out the door. This guy was a church going, family man, who somehow crashed out. As he left I told him he could stay as long as he seeks help........ broke my heart to see him go. He was most worthy of being saved.

Addiction is a beast.  Very few people prefer the loneliness, desperation, hopelessness, and poverty that accompanies it.  Some research indicates a genetic component, while it is also linked to experiences.  The old "nature - nurture" question.  Once it grabs a hold of someone, the disease (I do believe it to be a disease) tells the individual there is nothing wrong.  Meanwhile, everyone around the addict clearly sees the problem.

Recovery seems most likely when the addict reaches a "bottom", which many don't survive.  Those who survive need only change everything.  Relapse is always there.

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4 minutes ago, quod umbra said:

Agree. 
And I do not think it is limited to drugs. Gambling addiction, sex addiction, alcohol addiction, whatever..... they are all rooted in the same affliction/causation. 
That said, all the above, dependency on welfare, crime, drugs alcohol, homelessness is all rooted in, or born out of hopelessness and inferiority.

Thing is, I would rather invest in trying to fix these underlying issues rather than simply warehouse lost souls.
Not all can be saved, but damn it we have to give it our best shot rather then accepting abject failures of people's lives.
I would much prefer we spend 100k a year saving those individuals we can, see them become productive, than spending 50k a year seeing them remain incomplete.

It is why I so strongly disagree with constantly growing the welfare state. It accomplishes nothing and condemns those savable to a life of despair.

The breakdown of the family unit is the biggest driver of drug addiction, homelessness , incarceration and failure 

 

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3 hours ago, quod umbra said:

Agree.
The problem grows exponentially with each generation that becomes the charge of the state.
I well realize what I posted above is a monumental task..... man to the moon x100. If we have about 60 million people on welfare currently, and each of those welfare Moms has 3 kids, in a generation we have 180 million. At some point in the not to near future we simply cannot afford this spiral.

Your proposal is to replace the family with the state ? 

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