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I've got a new class idea.

So most development classes try to limit costs by putting in restrictions for dimensions or minimum weights, but they seem to be largely ineffective. What if there was a class with no box at all but a maximum cost requirement? Say the boat could cost no more than 100k USD and could only have repair work done each year with a limit of 10k which would include sails and other consumables. Obviously, there would be a more concrete rule that would sure up most of the loopholes, but you get the idea. Let's find out what cheap speed really is through the best crucible we have, racing.

 

I think that it could be broken up into two different types of classes after that. One class would have a requirement for two bunks onboard for distance racing. But the other class would have no such requirements. 

Probably some very interesting takes on the rule, I bet simple trimarans would do well.
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2 hours ago, CWK said:

I've got a new class idea.

So most development classes try to limit costs by putting in restrictions for dimensions or minimum weights, but they seem to be largely ineffective. What if there was a class with no box at all but a maximum cost requirement? Say the boat could cost no more than 100k USD and could only have repair work done each year with a limit of 10k which would include sails and other consumables. Obviously, there would be a more concrete rule that would sure up most of the loopholes, but you get the idea. Let's find out what cheap speed really is through the best crucible we have, racing.

 

I think that it could be broken up into two different types of classes after that. One class would have a requirement for two bunks onboard for distance racing. But the other class would have no such requirements. 

Probably some very interesting takes on the rule, I bet simple trimarans would do well.

This was mentioned on this week's BarKarate podcast.......your idea?

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Let's go finnish folk racing style. Spend as much as you want, but good luck keeping the car. I've always wanted to start a laser fleet with their trade/bid rules. Seems like the most level racing field I've ever seen. If you make it too fast good luck keeping it. Its not an investment, its a toy.

"Anyone can place a fixed-price bid on any car, and the buyer is then chosen by draw. The fixed price is € 1500 (Finland, ca. US$1650) or 8000 SEK (Sweden, ca. US$1000). Refusing to sell is grounds for having one's competition license revoked... This type of system eliminates the motivation for sinking extensive amounts of work and money into a folk racing car. "

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folkrace

 

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1 hour ago, Roller Skates said:

Let's go finnish folk racing style. Spend as much as you want, but good luck keeping the car. I've always wanted to start a laser fleet with their trade/bid rules. Seems like the most level racing field I've ever seen. If you make it too fast good luck keeping it. Its not an investment, its a toy.

"Anyone can place a fixed-price bid on any car, and the buyer is then chosen by draw. The fixed price is € 1500 (Finland, ca. US$1650) or 8000 SEK (Sweden, ca. US$1000). Refusing to sell is grounds for having one's competition license revoked... This type of system eliminates the motivation for sinking extensive amounts of work and money into a folk racing car. "

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folkrace

 

This is the only way it could work.

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5 hours ago, CWK said:

I've got a new class idea.

So most development classes try to limit costs by putting in restrictions for dimensions or minimum weights, but they seem to be largely ineffective. What if there was a class with no box at all but a maximum cost requirement? Say the boat could cost no more than 100k USD and could only have repair work done each year with a limit of 10k which would include sails and other consumables. Obviously, there would be a more concrete rule that would sure up most of the loopholes, but you get the idea. Let's find out what cheap speed really is through the best crucible we have, racing.

 

I think that it could be broken up into two different types of classes after that. One class would have a requirement for two bunks onboard for distance racing. But the other class would have no such requirements. 

Probably some very interesting takes on the rule, I bet simple trimarans would do well.

Wait until a 30' carbon foiling trimaran which magically costs $99,999.00 shows up with a $1.00 set of North 3DI sails.

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12 hours ago, Great Red Shark said:

Or have a "claiming" rule.

The trouble with claiming rules for amateur builders is that folk who put a shed load of care, work and thought into designing and building their craft are not going to be desperately enthused about some jackoff being able to claim it. The only way it could possibly work would be if the boats were thrown together bits of crap that no-one could have any pride of ownership in.

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That idea is a non-starter because it will inhibit a fair pricing for second hand boats.

Plus: anything that has 'development' and 'cost ceiling' as simultaneous requirements will not get far.

Or, worse, will fall apart while trying.

 

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I think a better way to limit costs is to limit the size of the boat.  Go full carbon but cut the boat down to 8 meters (8.75 yards, 26.25 feet, 0.42 double-decker bus, 0.26 blue whale, 0.11 jumbo jets).  A new J/80, about 3 years ago, was $55K-USD, how much would a scaled down Cape 31 be?

Who wants to go slow if fast is an option?

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21 hours ago, CWK said:

I've got a new class idea.

So most development classes try to limit costs by putting in restrictions for dimensions or minimum weights, but they seem to be largely ineffective. What if there was a class with no box at all but a maximum cost requirement? Say the boat could cost no more than 100k USD and could only have repair work done each year with a limit of 10k which would include sails and other consumables. Obviously, there would be a more concrete rule that would sure up most of the loopholes, but you get the idea. Let's find out what cheap speed really is through the best crucible we have, racing.

 

I think that it could be broken up into two different types of classes after that. One class would have a requirement for two bunks onboard for distance racing. But the other class would have no such requirements. 

Probably some very interesting takes on the rule, I bet simple trimarans would do well.

Better idea.  One design class with round robin at every regatta, where you take home the last boat you raced on instead of the one you brought.

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19 hours ago, Sail4beer said:

West system and plywood sound like the formula. Use the leftover $ for building carbon fiber spars, dyneema rigging and poly carbon sails.

I’m imagining a big i550. Like 30 feet

49B9F1F4-0C5E-4AA3-B537-7ED13ECBE22D.jpeg

Rodger martin “  Caribbean 33” is almost exactly that .   Very cool boat 

https://www.rodgermartindesign.com/portfolio/772/

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21 hours ago, Roller Skates said:

Let's go finnish folk racing style. Spend as much as you want, but good luck keeping the car. I've always wanted to start a laser fleet with their trade/bid rules. Seems like the most level racing field I've ever seen. If you make it too fast good luck keeping it. Its not an investment, its a toy.

"Anyone can place a fixed-price bid on any car, and the buyer is then chosen by draw. The fixed price is € 1500 (Finland, ca. US$1650) or 8000 SEK (Sweden, ca. US$1000). Refusing to sell is grounds for having one's competition license revoked... This type of system eliminates the motivation for sinking extensive amounts of work and money into a folk racing car. "

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folkrace

 

This could work, but due to safety issues, the price needs to be high enough to encourage maintenance.

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2 hours ago, Ncik said:

This could work, but due to safety issues, the price needs to be high enough to encourage maintenance.

That's the thing, you still gotta make it through the race. Nobody bidding on your boat if you break it and you're stuck with it. Your problem.
 

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I Think yall are missing the point here. Each of you are desperately trying to poke holes in a one paragraph "rule" rather than add to its original intention. I did not claim to have all the answers but I most certainly do not agree with the way this is being taken so far. 

Used boats will be valued under the rule at their new price, but sold at whatever they feel like. (once again not a concreate rule just an idea, work with me people)

I am not a fan of the trade out program for boats because then the boats would be a heap of shit. And at that point they would not be fast. 

I am a fan of not accounting for labor costs because the point would be to develop the team and the boat at the same time. The point of this class is to tinker and find what money makes things fast and what money makes things stupid. If you don't have the skills to build this/ work on this yourself then I have one of three solutions for you: 1) find a friend who does know how and get them on the team. 2) persuade someone who has a professional design team to do a build for one of these and buy it. 3) or this class isn't for you, and I would recommend a one design.

 

 

 

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How about a claiming race like in horse racing in which the horses are all for sale for more or less the same price (the "claiming price") up until shortly before the race?  Title to the horse typically transfers just before the start of the race, and If a horse is purchased, a track official tags it (often with a red tag) after the race, and it goes to its new owner, assuming the new owner had sufficient funds on deposit. 

For sailboat racing, the claiming race could be the last race of the season instead of every race.  Another approach could be similar to some racecar claiming races,  where only the engine can be claimed.  For sailboats,  only the sails could be claimed.

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It would be far better to have all boats chosen by open random lottery shortly before the race. No one should know what boat they will get until the lottery handout. No trading boats after the issue. All boats should be deemed equal value. No free or in trade work to make them ready.  Sails and similar materials should come from the same sail maker.

For the record the 24 hour race of lemons is full of cheaters. rather than call them out they are overlooked because everyone likes to see cool rigs, fast shit and clever design. We all love a good visible break down in front of a crowd. Poor, lacking connections and those without mechanical/fabrication skills need not bother to enter this race as it is developed beyond what it was. 

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