Jump to content

Mini 6.50 for cruising


Recommended Posts

How stupid would it be to buy a mini for cruising as a 20 something year old who just wants to go fast with no immediate racing interests?

Would the maintenance costs be particularly high if it isn't pushed too hard? 

How many people could it take on a quick day sail?

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, jasper7427 said:

How stupid would it be to buy a mini for cruising as a 20 something year old who just wants to go fast with no immediate racing interests?

Would the maintenance costs be particularly high if it isn't pushed too hard? 

How many people could it take on a quick day sail?

 

Hard to say, if he has technical abilities the hard way is the best way.
Otherwise it's a traumatic mess, Is it a foiling Mini 6.50 you are trying to buy?

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Schakel said:

Hard to say, if he has technical abilities the hard way is the best way.
Otherwise it's a traumatic mess, Is it a foiling Mini 6.50 you are trying to buy?
I guess you must be able to instruct him, Wing sails I have seen but no experience with Foilers the same..
I am just too old for that.
 

For my son I buy an easy ship he can sail with his friends. I can easily instruct him without any panic.
It's a Rustler 24.
Rustler24-sailing-OPT-1024x683.thumb.jpg.165e81c5c2f53a80f17515467b5e3d29.jpg

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well at first I was thinking the new AC40 but I think that wouldn't be very much fun to sleep in...

Jokes aside, an old pogo 2 or something similar...

By technical abilities do you mean the maintenance or the sailing?

It wouldn't be learning to sail, raced optis, then lasers then some offshore stuff.

Would be learning solo but I figure if you take it slow at first and keep it costal that can be done.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, jasper7427 said:

Well at first I was thinking the new AC40 but I think that wouldn't be very much fun to sleep in...

Jokes aside, an old pogo 2 or something similar...

By technical abilities do you mean the maintenance or the sailing?

It wouldn't be learning to sail, raced optis, then lasers then some offshore stuff.

Would be learning solo but I figure if you take it slow at first and keep it costal that can be done.

Buy a Laser, it's world biggest racing class and you can instruct him with a dinghy.
Cost less money as well.
Marit Bouwmeester (World champion Laser Radial) training for the coast of  Scheveningen:
1100491004_MarittrainingScheveningen.jpg.424cead973074f6b888832090e1653dd.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, jasper7427 said:

Just to clarify... I am the 20yo in question... already have a laser

So it's his second boat. Well discuss with him, what would you like to sail.
Alone regatta's or fun with friends.
Are you planning a regatta future for him?
Moth.
Moth.jpg.6d0be56a4dcf66319dfb9b6fac127332.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

Him is me...

Also not looking for a dinghy, already have a laser, would love a moth in the future, but not the kind of thing I'm looking for now.

Want a boat to use to have fun and go fast in the med in the summer, learn to sail solo, and visit some cool places. Moth doesn't sound like the best idea for that.

I was just asking, assuming the spartan living isn't a problem, if this was an utterly stupid idea and why.

Would a mini be able to take 4 people for a day sail every once and a while? 

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, jasper7427 said:

Him is me...

Also not looking for a dinghy, already have a laser, would love a moth in the future, but not the kind of thing I'm looking for now.

Want a boat to use to have fun and go fast in the med in the summer, learn to sail solo, and visit some cool places. Moth doesn't sound like the best idea for that.

I was just asking, assuming the spartan living isn't a problem, if this was an utterly stupid idea and why.

Would a mini be able to take 4 people for a day sail every once and a while? 

Sounds silly perhaps but take the boat that is mostly sailed in the waters where you sail for four man. Over here (Holland) that is an 16 square meter.
Don't do it it is an awful boat with lots of water that splashes from the bow and the tiller is 45 degrees with heavy weather but.. it's the standard.
466778213_16kwadraat.jpg.55509016544621e736a192d0545b1025.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow, that was painful… in an attempt to get this back on track:

There is a vintage non-foiling mini-transat local to me that does round the can racing with a crew of (I think) 3 or 4. Looks like a fun day out - decent speed, seaworthy, plenty of strings to pull. If you are looking to cover any major distance solo this must be the best entry point. 

I can only imagine that size of boat should mean relatively limited running costs (unless something important breaks - would think that there are some fairly abused/neglected examples out there). Normal rules around budgeting for maintenance apply.

As someone with a 20ft day boat I can recommend the smug feeling of sailing around with bigger boats but knowing that you are paying half what they are for sailing on the same patch of water. Also, winter jobs like antifouling take half the time. 

  • Like 6
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, jasper7427 said:

Him is me...

Also not looking for a dinghy, already have a laser, would love a moth in the future, but not the kind of thing I'm looking for now.

Want a boat to use to have fun and go fast in the med in the summer, learn to sail solo, and visit some cool places. Moth doesn't sound like the best idea for that.

I was just asking, assuming the spartan living isn't a problem, if this was an utterly stupid idea and why.

Would a mini be able to take 4 people for a day sail every once and a while? 

I would think it would be a blast to camp cruise around in an obsolete mini.  Cockpit might get a bit crowded for a half dozen but if you are only daysailing with a crew, there is plenty of room for the beer to keep everyone happy.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it is not a bad idea.  Not sure how much a pogo 2 costs but sounds like fun.  Probably limited to 4 people for a day sail.  Running costs shouldn’t be bad.  My only thought is that there may be better boats for a given budget with your use in mind.  You could find a quick 25’er that would be more comfortable and nearly as fast for less money.  Obviously higher running costs but that depends on other variables.  Other items to consider are where are you going to keep it (dry sail, mooring, etc…), is trailering important and maybe how long you will be aboard at a time.  
 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, edevans505 said:

Wow, that was painful… in an attempt to get this back on track:

There is a vintage non-foiling mini-transat local to me that does round the can racing with a crew of (I think) 3 or 4. Looks like a fun day out - decent speed, seaworthy, plenty of strings to pull. If you are looking to cover any major distance solo this must be the best entry point. 

I can only imagine that size of boat should mean relatively limited running costs (unless something important breaks - would think that there are some fairly abused/neglected examples out there). Normal rules around budgeting for maintenance apply.

As someone with a 20ft day boat I can recommend the smug feeling of sailing around with bigger boats but knowing that you are paying half what they are for sailing on the same patch of water. Also, winter jobs like antifouling take half the time. 

Thanks for getting this back to topic.

 I’m jumping on the go for it wagon.  I’ve looked at several Pogo 2’s. One for purchase, one for race insurance for single handed transpac and then one proto (ok, so not really a pogo), again for insurance.  The Pogo and mini’s like it are pretty well put together, nicely laid out and seem to sail well, at least according to the owners.  They are also not too complicated.  

You could probably cover a lot of ground at little outlay in cost.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, jasper7427 said:

How stupid would it be to buy a mini for cruising as a 20 something year old who just wants to go fast with no immediate racing interests?

Very.

But that's what your age is for, so have at it and enjoy! ; )

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually, if you're really more into the camping style, you might want to have a look at the Seascape 18. Many people use this little thing for weekend trips. Have a look at @Blur page blur.se . He is an accomplished J/111 sailor who has now lost his heart to a Seascape 18. 

A similiar, even more basic but also much more affordable boat might be the Open 570. It's actually quite similar to the Seascape, but the 'cabin' (lol) is rather storage space, but so is the Mini's... The 570s can be trailered with small cars and you can explore a lot of different places. They start at roughly 4000 EUR at leboncoin sometimes. There is also an even smaller boat, the Open 500. 

Also have a look at the First 210 / 21..7 models from Beneteau, I think they share some roots with the first Mini generation, but are small cruising boats and much more comfortable.

The 5.70:

Open 5.70

First 210:

first_210_3.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

I wonder if anyone who thinks cruising on a mini has ever done this? (they are designed to survive crossing the Atlantic thus the mini-transat name).

They are a blast downwind. An analogy might be buying a classic sports car to go camping in.  And not easy to launch from a trailer. Other than that, great idea.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Stick to the Series boats, you should have a laugh.  (or a boat built as series but never got accredited could be best value).  2 is crowded on a mini, but 4 very good friends might manage a weekend.  Not sure what the situation is with insurance, but if you're not racing you could just go bareback. And yep, have cruised on a mini, and survived, with some memories that will see me to the grave, mostly good. 

But you could also look at an old MOCRA multihull, if you want even faster and even cheaper.

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Similar response as Hitchhiker's - Some years ago I inspected the first Pogo 2 to enter a Singlehanded Transpac.  As a series boat it didn't have the keel canting box and tackle, and was surprisingly roomy below.  It appeared to be well-built and the aluminum rig and conventional construction could make it an affordable boat to own.  I've thought about them several times over the years and I'm a lot older than the OP.  One hesitation would be the draft and keel shape, depending on where you plan to sail it.

If you started racing in handicap fleets the rating would make it tough.  I maintain that for inshore racing, a series Mini should rate the same as a Moore 24 -  and the Moore would still beat it.  But no one listens and local attempts to build a Mini fleet here in SF have failed.

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, d'ranger said:

I wonder if anyone who thinks cruising on a mini has ever done this? (they are designed to survive crossing the Atlantic thus the mini-transat name).

They are a blast downwind. An analogy might be buying a classic sports car to go camping in.  And not easy to launch from a trailer. Other than that, great idea.

nah, u wrong matey, mini has free space in it(in comparison with cruiser sailboats same size), sports car- doesnt

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, d'ranger said:

Let me know how many nights you have slept in either, space isn't the issue.

One rule for the SHTP is that the skipper has to be able to sleep in a prone position (stretched out).  There was ample room to do that in the Pogo 2 I inspected.  Two could as well.  Four would require a couple people sleeping on deck.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, BobJ said:

One rule for the SHTP is that the skipper has to be able to sleep in a prone position (stretched out).  There was ample room to do that in the Pogo 2 I inspected.  Two could as well.  Four would require a couple people sleeping on deck.

Again the point is how many have done it?  You should realize that ventilation is extremely limited in order to survive a capsize?  Done here. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, d'ranger said:

Again the point is how many have done it?  You should realize that ventilation is extremely limited in order to survive a capsize?  Done here. 

I'm not gonna play whack-a-mole with you guys.  I think it's a great idea if the OP can find one.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, edevans505 said:

Wow, that was painful… in an attempt to get this back on track:

There is a vintage non-foiling mini-transat local to me that does round the can racing with a crew of (I think) 3 or 4. Looks like a fun day out - decent speed, seaworthy, plenty of strings to pull. If you are looking to cover any major distance solo this must be the best entry point. 

I can only imagine that size of boat should mean relatively limited running costs (unless something important breaks - would think that there are some fairly abused/neglected examples out there). Normal rules around budgeting for maintenance apply.

As someone with a 20ft day boat I can recommend the smug feeling of sailing around with bigger boats but knowing that you are paying half what they are for sailing on the same patch of water. Also, winter jobs like antifouling take half the time. 

Thank you for getting that back on track... 

Not sure how its possible to compare a mini to a moth but I guess Schakel has some moth cruising experience.

Yea, the maintenance costs are what I'm most unsure about, series boats not being all carbon with a carbon stick is reassuring...

Link to post
Share on other sites

never seen one in person from the inside, but from looking yt videos and such it looks like there is quite a bit of room inside...shove a lightweight mattress either at the bow or behind where an aft cabin would usually be.

Not exactly luxurious, but good cheap fun...

Is getting it on and off the trailer something that can be done relatively easily or is it a pain?

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, jasper7427 said:

How stupid would it be to buy a mini for cruising as a 20 something year old who just wants to go fast with no immediate racing interests?

Would the maintenance costs be particularly high if it isn't pushed too hard? 

How many people could it take on a quick day sail?

 

Not so stupid as series minis are very seaworthy and robust boats and relatively roomy boats for their size. They are a bit "rough on the edges", thus you need to be happy to sail a boat rather than a yacht.

On a quick day sail, I would say 4 people max.

The only difficulty is that you have lot of power so don't be too cocky.... eventually you will learn to be fully powered in breezy conditions downwind but it takes time! They are beginner boats in the sense that lot of people have learnt to race offshore on one of these!

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Lots of serie minis in the past were sold only to be cruised. Camping cruising. With offshore capability so no worry to cross the Med in any direction you fancied.
Maintenance, series are simple, no interior to keep up, small engine, even a new mast is not that expensive. Nothing exotic.
Harbor fees, do not mention the width and you will be okay. Though sometimes your box assigned will be a tad narrow.
Sails, enough on 2d hand market, mast size has been fixed for ages.
Daysail, 4 easy, extended cruise 2 adults and a few kids max.

Go for it, here is a less popular model for a good price; Mariole 219 Super calin serie, source Classemini.com  in small adds.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Minis have very small cockpits, so there are better boats for daysailing with 4. The layout is awesome for 1 or 2 people, tho.

The bouancy requirements cut into the space below.

That said, you absolutely can daysail them with 4 and you can spartan cruise anything that floats.

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

13 minutes ago, LeoV said:

Lots of serie minis in the past were sold only to be cruised. Camping cruising. With offshore capability so no worry to cross the Med in any direction you fancied.
Maintenance, series are simple, no interior to keep up, small engine, even a new mast is not that expensive. Nothing exotic.
Harbor fees, do not mention the width and you will be okay. Though sometimes your box assigned will be a tad narrow.
Sails, enough on 2d hand market, mast size has been fixed for ages.
Daysail, 4 easy, extended cruise 2 adults and a few kids max.

Go for it, here is a less popular model for a good price; Mariole 219 Super calin serie, source Classemini.com  in small adds.

How interchangeable are the sails model to model?

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, jasper7427 said:

 

How interchangeable are the sails model to model?

For a cruiser, models from the same era, not to bad. regarding the newest batch after 2010 I do not know.

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, jasper7427 said:

 

Is getting it on and off the trailer something that can be done relatively easily or is it a pain?

Well, you sent me back down the mini rabbit hole. I think the trailer launching part could  be a pain.You will need access to a hoist and have to rig up a decent single point lift system, I think. That said once you have done it a couple times, should be cake after!

There was one mini Proto that was dry sailed in my area (So Cal).

Link to post
Share on other sites

I own a Pogo2 which I do not sail much these days but rather loan to a local sailing organization here they use for offshore training. 

Fun boats but for cruising? Not for me, reasons:

-downwind fine, otherwise rough ride, very wet

-space interior is adequate, ventilation is poor, sleeping inside in summer in Med would be like sleeping in an oven

-no water, no toilet for me not huge issue, for my wife and daughters big issue, they say we are going to the beach, you go suffer on your little boat :-)

-difficult to trailer, normally they are hoisted out and set in a rolling cradle

-2 people fine,  3 crowded, 4 no

I suspect there are much better options some of which listed above. Minis made to race, not to cruise.

 

 

 

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Jean-Baptiste said:

I own a Pogo2 which I do not sail much these days but rather loan to a local sailing organization here they use for offshore training. 

Fun boats but for cruising? Not for me, reasons:

-downwind fine, otherwise rough ride, very wet

-space interior is adequate, ventilation is poor, sleeping inside in summer in Med would be like sleeping in an oven

-no water, no toilet for me not huge issue, for my wife and daughters big issue, they say we are going to the beach, you go suffer on your little boat :-)

-difficult to trailer, normally they are hoisted out and set in a rolling cradle

-2 people fine,  3 crowded, 4 no

I suspect there are much better options some of which listed above. Minis made to race, not to cruise.

 

 

 

is it barebones or you actually tried to make it more suitable to cruising?

Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, pironiero said:

is it barebones or you actually tried to make it more suitable to cruising?

It is a racing boat and used as such. I see above Leo has a different opinion to mine which is equally worth considering. 

I am no longer a young man so it is also possible my age and appreciation of creature comforts influences my opinion. I believe the original poster is much younger and may be more adapted to a Spartan existence.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Jean-Baptiste said:

It is a racing boat and used as such. I see above Leo has a different opinion to mine which is equally worth considering. 

I am no longer a young man so it is also possible my age and appreciation of creature comforts influences my opinion. I believe the original poster is much younger and may be more adapted to a Spartan existence.

no, i mean if a guy want to rice-cruise this kind of a boat he will probably make it more habitable, so its not a bad option of you are going to put sum elbow grease in

Link to post
Share on other sites

go for it Jasper! If I were 20...!

Plenty time to let you be seduced by "creature comforts". If she's really too spartan you can always sell her. Very good ratio seaworthiness/speed/safety(positive floatation!)/price.

Easy to add a toilet, water in jerrycans & a little hatch for ventilation

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/18/2021 at 5:27 AM, jasper7427 said:

How stupid would it be to buy a mini for cruising as a 20 something year old who just wants to go fast with no immediate racing interests?

Would the maintenance costs be particularly high if it isn't pushed too hard? 

How many people could it take on a quick day sail?

 

How stupid would it be to buy a mini for cruising as a 20 something year old who just wants to go fast.

  • not stupid at all. when I was your age I bought a 1/4 tonner to do just that - never regretted that move. 

Would the maintenance costs be particularly high if it isn't pushed too hard? 

  • not if you work on it yourself.

How many people could it take on a quick day sail?

  • as many as you want.

the only problem I see here is that you are asking the question at all..

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Want a boat to use to have fun and go fast in the med in the summer, learn to sail solo, and visit some cool places.I was just asking, assuming the spartan living isn't a problem, if this was an utterly stupid idea and why.= not stupid, minis are seaworthy, fast, and interesting to sail. I cruised mine, invited unsuspecting girlfriends on board for weekend cruises etc. It was a Coco (Archambault, the series before Pogo. was more roomy, more freeboard. Such a pleasure to sail - fast, simple, safe, ans design to have some carrying capacity (contrary to a  day racer).

Would a mini be able to take 4 people for a day sail every once and a while? = 3 sure, 4 a stretch for overnight.

I second the suggestions made above if you want to stick to 21 ft: Bene Frist 210, Mojito…This being said, if you are not constraint to class mini, why not go for 24ft (bene / Saescape 24 for instance). 

enjoy,

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

The only thing that I think you need to consider is that a mini is not a great boat for upwind work.  I feel like I always have a significant amount of upwind sailing to do regardless of my best laid plans to consider the wind.  A narrower 25’er would be way more comfortable upwind.  Just something to consider…

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, T sailor said:

The only thing that I think you need to consider is that a mini is not a great boat for upwind work.  I feel like I always have a significant amount of upwind sailing to do regardless of my best laid plans to consider the wind.  A narrower 25’er would be way more comfortable upwind.  Just something to consider…

more comfortable: quite probably! Faster too??? Those minis have quite good VMG upwind, even the scows...

Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, tane said:

more comfortable: quite probably! Faster too??? Those minis have quite good VMG upwind, even the scows...

I think for a young person who wants the fun of sailing, the work of getting a mini upwind might be part of it's appeal. Yes a bigger more traditional keelboat might be more comfortable, but I've got a house that is far more comfortable yet. Comfort isn't why we go!

The reservation I have is that keeping a mini in commission is likely to be expensive. If it's for sale cheap, does it need new rebuilding (relatively cheap if you have the skills), rerigging, (expensive), new sails (very expensive)?

- DSK

Link to post
Share on other sites

if you want it to be competitive in it's class, upkeep will be expensive, but then, which competitive racer's isn't. For cruising white sails, 1x19 wire & a lesser than NKE gyropilote will do. For a displacement of <1000kg all of that will be "reasonable" (if any boatstuff ever is...).

There are really "old" minis, much less extreme, too...:

e.g. the old Harle design CocoCOCO 6.50 MINI-TRANSAT

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/18/2021 at 8:46 AM, Schakel said:

Buy a Laser, it's world biggest racing class and you can instruct him with a dinghy.
Cost less money as well.
Marit Bouwmeester (World champion Laser Radial) training for the coast of  Scheveningen:
1100491004_MarittrainingScheveningen.jpg.424cead973074f6b888832090e1653dd.jpg

kinda tough to cruise a laser. mini's are tough little boats. if yer still young and stupid enough to do something like this without fucking up your life, go for it. 

Don't take stupid in a negative way.  could be a fun adventure if you've got some resources. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Ultimate 20?  When we were having ours built (1995), the mold was next to a mini mold down at the Moore shop- the mini mold was huge, and the way Jeff Canepa was explaining it, heavy and limited- he explored minis extensively for the U20, used what he felt was good, and rejected the rest. I wish I could remember more.  Anyway, I think they were/are(?) building U20’s in Italy. Might be worth a look.  Tough little boats, really fun to sail, go upwind well, plane downwind, easy to single hand. 4 up doable.  A lot less complicated than a mini.  There are a couple threads on the U20 on SA, but the one I’ve copied won’t stick- keeps going back to a mini on foils<_< 

Here’s a comparison that might be useful-  Dudley Dix designed a racing mini, and then had enough requests for a cruising mini that he did a cruiser based around the racer

https://www.dixdesign.com/didiminicruiseMk3.htm

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

If you’re in England as well as Italy, Keith Callaghan is designing some small (17’ up to 30’)  trailerable planing ballasted boats there that might be what you’re looking for, some from kits, some production.  Site’s worth a look.  Merlin Rocket designer too.  Good speed without the complications.

https://www.bluelightning.co.uk

Link to post
Share on other sites

Minis which are series (not prototypes) are pretty simple boats that are within reach of anybody able to sail a small cruiser or even a 420. You sheet in and off it goes, the hard bit is to keep up with the others. They are easier to sail than a half tonner as they track well, have rudders that don't ventilate and are quite stiff.

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Amati said:

Here’s a comparison that might be useful-  Dudley Dix designed a racing mini, and then had enough requests for a cruising mini that he did a cruiser based around the racer

https://www.dixdesign.com/didiminicruiseMk3.htm

seems very nicely done.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

I think for a young person who wants the fun of sailing, the work of getting a mini upwind might be part of it's appeal. Yes a bigger more traditional keelboat might be more comfortable, but I've got a house that is far more comfortable yet. Comfort isn't why we go!

The reservation I have is that keeping a mini in commission is likely to be expensive. If it's for sale cheap, does it need new rebuilding (relatively cheap if you have the skills), rerigging, (expensive), new sails (very expensive)?

- DSK

There will be  number of boats for sale in the aftermath of Transat, check the classemimi, also normally a variety of 2 nd hand gear.

https://www.classemini.com/?mode=petites-annonces

If you are not  a French speaker the translate function on Chrome can assist.

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Bump-n-Grind said:

kinda tough to cruise a laser. mini's are tough little boats. if yer still young and stupid enough to do something like this without fucking up your life, go for it. 

Don't take stupid in a negative way.  could be a fun adventure if you've got some resources. 

This is the somewhat more expensive but more relaxed approach, Hiking is not my favourite, trapeze is!
Contender_sailing_dinghy.jpg.adc58998aa8200e44c2be5c1ef7448b1.jpg
It's called Contender somewhat rare but way faster then any laser.

Link to post
Share on other sites

toJasper, mini is a good buy because most boats are odd and you wont able to sell. 

Try the boat then you wont stuck with it in case you don't want to continue. A mini has everything you want to try.

If difficult to find one, try a boat that is very popular and you know you will sell her easily. Im big fan of IF boat, H-boat etc.

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, jasper7427 said:

How do minis hold their value?

If one isn't raced and is maintained well over 4 or 5 years, how much depreciation could you expect?

"isn't raced" is probably a concept you should remove from your thought process. It's a bit like not driving a car. Cars that are driven, are usually better maintained than those what aint. Same for race boats, at least most of those that I'm familiar with. Those that get raced a lot are kept up better than the dock queens. yeah, they may get a bit more wear and tear, but that is usually more than made up for by how well the boat is equipped. 

If a mini-transat blows your dress up, go get one. They're cool. They're weird. Will definitely get you laid more than a laser or a contender.

And to quote Jeff Goldblum in the Big Chill ...

 I believe in the old theory that everybody does everything in order to get laid. Jeff Goldblum The Big Chill Facial expression Photo caption Forehead Nose Cheek Snapshot Chin Human

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, troll99 said:

toJasper, mini is a good buy because most boats are odd and you wont able to sell. 

Try the boat then you wont stuck with it in case you don't want to continue. A mini has everything you want to try.

If difficult to find one, try a boat that is very popular and you know you will sell her easily. Im big fan of IF boat, H-boat etc.

Good advice, but an IF boat is quite another animal altogether; Jasper can look at it 20, 30 years from now, not at the age of 20!

(imho H-boat isn't half as seaworthy as a mini...)

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, jasper7427 said:

What are you on about... 

are you stupid or just enjoying trolling...

It is a better choice, you won't lose your son for ages crosssing the Atlantic, much more fun, he gets 200 % fit and his normal life goes on.
Whatmoredoyouwant?

Contender_sailing_dinghy.jpg

  • Downvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Schakel said:

It is a better choice, you won't lose your son for ages crosssing the Atlantic, much more fun, he gets 200 % fit and his normal life goes on.
Whatmoredoyouwant?

Contender_sailing_dinghy.jpg

YOU CANNOT CRUISE A CONTENDER 

Also I don't have a son...

stop pushing dinghies as alternatives to a keelboat...

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

I’ve sailed on the original one of these many, many years ago, with the original builder of the type, Hedley Bewes:

https://www.inautia.com/used-boat-45362090141754989848539754524551.html

https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/red-fox-200
 

Very quick for its size, despite portly appearance. It won’t be as seaworthy as a mini 6.5, but at least you can beach it.

FWIW, a series mini or a good de tuned proto mini is a pretty good way to go. You then at least know that the boat can take it, so the only question to be asked is, can you?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Red Fox I like, but seldom on the market, and if available then in the UK. (Import fees).

The Italians had the Felci designed mini Te Salt, and made a cruiser version too, as rare on the market.

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, jasper7427 said:

YOU CANNOT CRUISE A CONTENDER 

Also I don't have a son...

stop pushing dinghies as alternatives to a keelboat...

Okay,

This Mini is quite hot,
788781400_Arkemamini.jpg.7af6b49ded7219327d9320bf041f646d.jpg
Special material build.
1405681280_Arkemamini2.PNG.d2e6ae56f5569acb7bd61f032e68518c.PNG

https://www.arkema.com/global/en/arkema-group/sponsoring/arkema-sailing/mini-6-50-prototype/

  • Downvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/20/2021 at 10:43 PM, Amati said:

Ultimate 20?  When we were having ours built (1995), the mold was next to a mini mold down at the Moore shop- the mini mold was huge, and the way Jeff Canepa was explaining it, heavy and limited- he explored minis extensively for the U20, used what he felt was good, and rejected the rest. I wish I could remember more.  Anyway, I think they were/are(?) building U20’s in Italy. Might be worth a look.  Tough little boats, really fun to sail, go upwind well, plane downwind, easy to single hand. 4 up doable.  A lot less complicated than a mini.  There are a couple threads on the U20 on SA, but the one I’ve copied won’t stick- keeps going back to a mini on foils<_< 

Here’s a comparison that might be useful-  Dudley Dix designed a racing mini, and then had enough requests for a cruising mini that he did a cruiser based around the racer

https://www.dixdesign.com/didiminicruiseMk3.htm

i wonder if that flap on the keel really helps with anything, please explain

Link to post
Share on other sites

No lifting keel as in the water, but easy to lift keel as like in a Melges 24, over 35 built, many with my hands participating.
For camping cruising either Pogo1 with Asymm or  a Zero would be my choice.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey,

I have a mini, it's a proto, so with the water ballasts, canting keel sistem and cannard cases there is no much space left inside.

The series like P2 or similar are another story tough..  I would say very suitable for spartan cruising if that's your fetish (I know for me it is ;) )

Some would say ''no a mini it's not for cruising, it's for crossing an ocean singlehanded.. and I'm always like WTF, why would you even use this as an argument, in my eyes it just adds to its potential for cruising.

But at the end nevermind me, when I diwngraded from a 26ft clubracer - cruiser to the mini, I was picturing to my wife this romantic picture of a mini, when us two would surf from bay to bay, still enjoying the same confort our previous boat had, except we would be faster and safer. When she saw the boat I brought home I must say she didn't do flips of joy. 

I gues you got my POV.

 

SURRENDER, MINI IS THE FUTURE!

 

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/18/2021 at 9:01 AM, jasper7427 said:

Him is me...

Also not looking for a dinghy, already have a laser, would love a moth in the future, but not the kind of thing I'm looking for now.

Want a boat to use to have fun and go fast in the med in the summer, learn to sail solo, and visit some cool places. Moth doesn't sound like the best idea for that.

I was just asking, assuming the spartan living isn't a problem, if this was an utterly stupid idea and why.

Would a mini be able to take 4 people for a day sail every once and a while? 

Many old fuddy duddies on SA so while there is a wealth of information, they tend to be too conservative.

Go for it.  When I was in my 20's I would hike anywhere, sleep on anything, do an ocean race with no set accommodation like hot bunking and just slept on the floor on what ever sail was on top or if it was a good ride, in a spinnaker bag.

You will have to maintain a lot of running rigging, sails, some standing rigging, and if you cannot dry sail it you might not want to do this at all.  These might break your budget so look over a 6.5 thoroughly and go read Mini threads somewhere to see if you can manage the boat buck bill.  And remember, you should be putting something in the bank every year for retirement some day, don't spend everything on hookers, drugs, booze, and boats.  Consider dropping the drugs and if you can tell funny jokes and be kind and fun, drop the hookers and date nice girls that are crazy enough to share your boat obsessions.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/21/2021 at 5:33 PM, tane said:

Good advice, but an IF boat is quite another animal altogether; Jasper can look at it 20, 30 years from now, not at the age of 20!

(imho H-boat isn't half as seaworthy as a mini...)

just make sure you can sell your first boat. ive no idea what boat is easy to sell.. kind of pain ass. 

minis are attractive for sure so long we make up hype lol 

Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, tane said:

re. upkeep: I guess in France there is a lot of secondhand Mini stuff available; stuff not competitive any more, but still very good for cruising (sails...)

A friend of mine sailed a Ranger 23 solo to France from Florida in the early 1980's.  I was "cruising" a cape dory typhoon at the time, my first "big" boat, and probably about 1/3 the interior space of a mini, but still fun as all get out in my mid 20's.  Anyway, after he got home from France (sold the Ranger there), he told me "you gotta go to France and sail around before you get married".  Wish I had paid more attention.  Cool story bro.  Go for the mini!

Link to post
Share on other sites

+1 on what @LeoV said further up, have a look at the Super Calin, I never really looked at it before, but it was mentioned in another thread. I think it fits your idea pretty well. Also not expensive as a 2nd hand boat, as it seems, this one is advertised for roughly 10K EUR

1.gr.jpg

 

 

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Matagi said:

+1 on what @LeoV said further up, have a look at the Super Calin, I never really looked at it before, but it was mentioned in another thread. I think it fits your idea pretty well. Also not expensive as a 2nd hand boat, as it seems, this one is advertised for roughly 10K EUR

1.gr.jpg

 

 

is it wooden? looks like it is

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, tane said:

...& while we are there:

this one was highly acclaimed in the French yachting rags when it came on the market:

https://voilesetvoiliers.ouest-france.fr/bateau/fiche-technique/bepox-750/ 

The Bepox is a rocket ship.

Its big brother won the Transquadra solo and they've effectively banned these boats by introducing new rules!

Link to post
Share on other sites