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Bottom Services by LWL or LOA


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Is it typical for those that conduct bottom services (spraying bottom paint, cleaning bottom weekly) use LOA to calculate their rate?    Just seems odd to use a measurement that is mutually exclusive from the service being rendered. But surely not gong to be "that guy" who bring it up as it will just turn into a high cost per foot inflation increase I'm sure.  

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I just got charged storage by square footage of my boat. as near as I can tell, it was a box calculation. first time I wasn't charged by the LOA. I'm pretty sure my diver charges by LOA but none of the boats he cleans has long overhangs and he does a good job so I don't really think much of it.

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28 minutes ago, Rain Man said:

I'm so happy that there are divers willing to do this work I will just pay whatever they ask.  I've never felt they were charging too much.

I agree, finding a good, dependable diver is worth their weight in gold!   I've learned my lesson using the "cheap" diver".

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17 hours ago, usa1136 said:

Is it typical for those that conduct bottom services (spraying bottom paint, cleaning bottom weekly) use LOA to calculate their rate?    Just seems odd to use a measurement that is mutually exclusive from the service being rendered. But surely not gong to be "that guy" who bring it up as it will just turn into a high cost per foot inflation increase I'm sure.  

Dockage ,haul out , storage is calculated length overall,  beam …total sq meters . The total footprint 

it’s possible that the painter is simply using the haul out data from the shipyard 

Length of waterline is a mysterious number for most folks 

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the LOA is as slug Z says well understood number.  Who does not know how long their boat is?  I am sure that painters/bottom cleaners over the years have adjusted the labor costs to meet changing boat shapes.  I also pay for storage using box rule have for 30 + years.  My current guy is not getting into the decimal places I used to say its a 40 ft with a 12 ft beam  now he is charging me its a 39.25ft boat with a 12.2ft beam.  I was not trying to rip him off but I get being accurate.  We are going to give him a X-Mas bonus as the cost of everything is going up.  Shrink Wrap has gone up 200 us a roll ect....

 

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19 hours ago, ryley said:

I just got charged storage by square footage of my boat. as near as I can tell, it was a box calculation. first time I wasn't charged by the LOA. I'm pretty sure my diver charges by LOA but none of the boats he cleans has long overhangs and he does a good job so I don't really think much of it.

We have a diver who does a great job on local boats. He simply charges by the hour. Seems like the best way, since he often encounters different levels of fouling, depending on time of year and other variables.

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2 hours ago, Israel Hands said:

We have a diver who does a great job on local boats. He simply charges by the hour. Seems like the best way, since he often encounters different levels of fouling, depending on time of year and other variables.

My diver had a minimum fee based on boat length, type … plus extra for heavy fouling , intake clean out, prop fouling , anode service …

the good divers are all working with cameras and travel in three man gangs… shore boat guy and two divers 

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On 11/23/2021 at 12:22 AM, usa1136 said:

Is it typical for those that conduct bottom services (spraying bottom paint, cleaning bottom weekly) use LOA to calculate their rate?    Just seems odd to use a measurement that is mutually exclusive from the service being rendered. But surely not gong to be "that guy" who bring it up as it will just turn into a high cost per foot inflation increase I'm sure.  

Sure. The longer the more paint and labor they can get out of your pocket.  Simple

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On 11/23/2021 at 7:29 AM, slug zitski said:

My diver had a minimum fee based on boat length, type … plus extra for heavy fouling , intake clean out, prop fouling , anode service …

the good divers are all working with cameras and travel in three man gangs… shore boat guy and two divers 

27 years in the biz and I have never seen a 3-man team of hull cleaners. How anybody could make a living doing it that way is beyond me.

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5 minutes ago, fstbttms said:

27 years in the biz and I have never seen a 3-man team of hull cleaners. How anybody could make a living doing it that way is beyond me.

I think it’s the law when you are a commercial rated diver working  in a commercial harbor 

the big money maker for these divers is cleaning ship propellers when they are in port 

 

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On 11/22/2021 at 8:22 AM, usa1136 said:

Is it typical for those that conduct bottom services (spraying bottom paint, cleaning bottom weekly) use LOA to calculate their rate?    

LOA is easy to determine, is usually part of the boat's model number and more often than not, the boat owner has no clue about any other length measurement. In cases where there are bowsprits or boomkins or swim platforms etc., I will try to determine the LOD and charge by that.

What is especially annoying are those owners who suggest that LWL is the basis by which they should be charged. 

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Just now, slug zitski said:

I think it’s the law when you are a commercial rated diver working  in a commercial harbor 

the big money maker for these divers is cleaning ship propellers when they are in port 

 

We aren't talking about hat divers doing full-on commercial work. We're talking about hull divers cleaning privately-owned pleasure craft. Apples and oranges. 

And BTW- only in cases where actual employees are involved does OSHA have any jurisdiction (and hence, 3-man dive teams.) This does not apply to the very great majority of hull cleaning services.

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1 minute ago, fstbttms said:

We aren't talking about hat divers doing full-on commercial work. We're talking about hull divers cleaning privately-owned pleasure craft. Apples and oranges. 

And BTW- only in cases where actual employees are involved does OSHA have any jurisdiction (and hence, 3-man dive teams.) This does not apply to the very great majority of hull cleaning services.

Don’t know 

this if a company I typically use 

https://www.oceandiving-spain.com/#Listen

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2 minutes ago, slug zitski said:

Don’t know 

this if a company I typically use 

https://www.oceandiving-spain.com/#Listen

Well, regulations in Europe typically require in-water work of any kind to be done by commercial dive outfits. Not the case in the States where there are thousands of 1-man dive services for the recreational boater. And even when the dive service is larger than that, they will typically use independent contractors, not employees. 

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5 minutes ago, fstbttms said:

Well, regulations in Europe typically require in-water work of any kind to be done by commercial dive outfits. Not the case in the States where there are thousands of 1-man dive services for the recreational boater. And even when the dive service is larger than that, they will typically use independent contractors, not employees. 

Don’t know all the rules 

they always work in three man gangs 

I think he has two three man gangs as full time employees 

a mix of young guys and senior guys 

the support boat is quite sophisticated 

these guys seem to be wet all day , every day 

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53 minutes ago, fstbttms said:

What is especially annoying are those owners who suggest that LWL is the basis by which they should be charged. 

Out of curiosity, why is that? Slips, yard storage, etc make sense for LOA, but for other services like bottom paint packages and underwater hull cleaning, I would think LWL would make much more sense. Or is this one of those it's always been done that way sort of things. 

Say my 30 footer has the same LWL as another 35 footer with longer overhangs. Is the level of effort to do the 35 footer that much different given the LWL is the same?  

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46 minutes ago, Slick470 said:

Out of curiosity, why is that? Slips, yard storage, etc make sense for LOA, but for other services like bottom paint packages and underwater hull cleaning, I would think LWL would make much more sense. Or is this one of those it's always been done that way sort of things. 

Say my 30 footer has the same LWL as another 35 footer with longer overhangs. Is the level of effort to do the 35 footer that much different given the LWL is the same?  

Well first off, most boat owners do not know what their LWL is. So that would be a PITA right off the bat when trying to quote a price. But beyond that, many boats with similar LOAs will have significantly different LWLs and different amounts of wetted surface to be cleaned. So if I'm going to use any of the boat's dimensions to determine price, it's going to be the one that works in my favor. But the bottom line is (regardless of how I determine what I'm going to charge for the job) that if it's not worth it to the owner to pay it, he/she is free to look elsewhere. They are not hurting my feelings one little bit.

It is industry standard to charge by LOA and most boat owners who have used dive services previously will be aware of this. When a boat owner comes to me wanting to be charged by LWL, he is simply looking for a cheap rate. But in my case, the price is the price and it is not negotiable.

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22 minutes ago, fstbttms said:

Well first off, most boat owners do not know what their LWL is. So that would be a PITA right off the bat when trying to quote a price. But beyond that, many boats with similar LOAs will significantly different LWLs and different amounts of wetted surface to be cleaned. So if I'm going to use any of the boat's dimensions to determine price, it's going to be the one that works in my favor. But the bottom line is (regardless of how I determine what I'm going to charge for the job) that if it's not worth it to the owner to pay it, he/she is free to look elsewhere. They are not hurting my feelings one little bit.

It is industry standard to charge by LOA and most boat owners who have used dive services previously will be aware of this. When a boat owner comes to me wanting to be charged by LWL, he is simply looking for a cheap rate. But in my case, the price is the price and it is not negotiable.

gotcha. thanks for the response. 

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