Is hiking hard over that lower lifeline causing damage?

[Mr Moab 112]

Am now on day 8 in the hospital after going to the ER and being diagnosed with an intestinal blockage. CT scans showed scarring of my small intestine that created a restriction and subsequently a blockage. I would not wish this level of pain and outcome to anyone. 
 

The GI specialist and surgeon were perplexed as to what caused this. I have none of the prior indicators (previous abdominal surgery, trauma etc). I am reasonably healthy in every other way according to my bloodwork and other tests.  Do need to drop some lbs. otoh, not eating for these past 8 days has been a good kickstart. 
 

After  few days here I started to wonder if rag dolling over a lower lifeline for five days at a recent windy event might be a possible cause. I grabbed some stock photos of crews bent over the lower lifeline and shared them with my doctors. They could not say with certainty that it was cause, but as I explained what 30-45 minute beat can be like, they grew more interested. 
 

I am curious if any others have experienced similar issues and have possibly received feedback from other medical folks on this. 

[sunseeker 458]

I know multiple people who have sustained nerve damage from gut hiking.

It is an utterly idiotic way to sail. 
 

The funny part is the fact semi pro sailors think they are so fucking cool to be paid to sail, and yet the vast majority of them have to self torture for most of the race to get paid. Nice work, if you are willing to abuse yourself for a couple of hundred dollars a day. 
 

And people wonder why the sport is on life support.

[dogwatch 1,318]

1 hour ago, sunseeker said:

I know multiple people who have sustained nerve damage from gut hiking.

It is an utterly idiotic way to sail. 

A few years ago I expressed a similar opinion and Clean told me, at length, that I must be old, unfit and generally unworthy.

Oh well.

[M26 103]

1 hour ago, sunseeker said:

I know multiple people who have sustained nerve damage from gut hiking.

It is an utterly idiotic way to sail. 
 

The funny part is the fact semi pro sailors think they are so fucking cool to be paid to sail, and yet the vast majority of them have to self torture for most of the race to get paid. Nice work, if you are willing to abuse yourself for a couple of hundred dollars a day. 
 

And people wonder why the sport is on life support.

how do you keep your boat flat?

[Steam Flyer 8,440]

1 hour ago, dogwatch said:

2 hours ago, sunseeker said:

I know multiple people who have sustained nerve damage from gut hiking.

It is an utterly idiotic way to sail. 

A few years ago I expressed a similar opinion and Clean told me, at length, that I must be old, unfit and generally unworthy.

Oh well.

It's one of the reasons I stopped sailing Melges 24s, which are otherwise fun boats. Never heard of physical damage from it, but I wouldn't be surprised

- DSK

[Blue Crab 2,469]

1 hour ago, M26 said:

how do you keep your boat flat?

Heh heh. And all this happening at 7 mph and calling it racing. Sure Jan.

[some dude 201]

58 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

It's one of the reasons I stopped sailing Melges 24s, which are otherwise fun boats. Never heard of physical damage from it, but I wouldn't be surprised

- DSK

Tops of my thighs have been numb for the last 20 years or so, after several seasons of Melges 24s on the SF Cityfront. Feels like a local anesthetic.  I've always seen it as a small sacrifice for a ton of fun but wouldn't want to do more.  My answer would be different if it were Intestinal scarring though. 

[Code 2 43]

The problem is - if done right it works.

[sunseeker 458]

4 minutes ago, Code 2 said:

The problem is - if done right it works.

Remember when people used to wear 40+ pounds of wet sweatshirts?  That worked too.  Wasn't a very smart idea then either.

[Bitter Gnat 81]

We won a couple Melges 24 Gulf Coast Champs and a few big event Corinthian trophies doing what we called "Tostada Hiking". We figured as long as your beer gut was outside the shearline, it was fine. Never had a problem going upwind in big breeze.  I'm now old, unfit and generally unworthy to sail like that anymore. But damn we had a great time mixing it up with those skinny pro boats!

[Rotnest Express 151]

2 hours ago, M26 said:

how do you keep your boat flat?

Trapeze !!!

[Grande Mastere Dreade 4,168]

2 hours ago, M26 said:

how do you keep your boat flat?

travel down...

[Foredeck Shuffle 308]

Too much time on Mumm30's & M24's earlier in life, hernia, small intestines started to migrate to the belly button.  Doc was going to put in 4 stitches and discussed a mesh if I was going to continue sailing.  Went with 8 stitches and a heavier gauge medical mesh, took months for the twinges to go away when I stretch flat.  Have a fishhook shaped scar around around the belly button.

I'd like to say I have held a line with people about never gut hiking again but what happened is that friends asked me to trim main, do tactics, and sometimes drive at first.  Later when I was recovered no one ever pushed me to gut hike even if I went back up to the bow to train or fill in when the regular bow bows out.  No one expects me to gut hike.  Not that I would, I can still feel where the mesh is.

Hiking off a lifeline is dumb.  Drop the traveler 1/2".  My head and hands 3" further out is not why you cannot win.

[VWAP 1,099]

3 hours ago, M26 said:

how do you keep your boat flat?

[McGyver 71]

I used hiking racks for the first time when I bought a Hobie Getaway, and I couldn't believe how good they were: I was sitting comfortably, high, with good vision of the waves, dry and projecting my weight out as much as trapezing. 

After having campaigned a Melges 24, I couldn't help but think how much nicer that boat would be with racks.

[VWAP 1,099]

1 minute ago, McGyver said:

I used hiking racks for the first time when I bought a Hobie Getaway, and I couldn't believe how good they were: I was sitting comfortably, high, with good vision of the waves, dry and projecting my weight out as much as trapezing. 

After having campaigned a Melges 24, I couldn't help but think how much nicer that boat would be with racks.

[Gouvernail 3,945]

On the one hand, we try to think of sailing as a physical sport, on the other hand we make rules to remove advantages from the physically gifted. 
 

Rather than  allow people with strong thighs and belly muscles to hike out harder than the rest of us, we have pretty much banned that on most keelboats. 
 

we have substituted rules that demand sailors hang like rags over the lifelines. 
 

if we want to restrict using athleticism to keep a boat flatter, there are many ways to write effective rules. 
 

notice in Vwap’s photo examples, the skipper is not doing jack shit to flatten the boat. 

[Foredeck Shuffle 308]

14 minutes ago, Gouvernail said:

On the one hand, we try to think of sailing as a physical sport, on the other hand we make rules to remove advantages from the physically gifted. 
 

Rather than  allow people with strong thighs and belly muscles to hike out harder than the rest of us, we have pretty much banned that on most keelboats. 
 

we have substituted rules that demand sailors hang like rags over the lifelines. 
 

if we want to restrict using athleticism to keep a boat flatter, there are many ways to write effective rules. 
 

notice in Vwap’s photo examples, the skipper is not doing jack shit to flatten the boat. 

There is hiking then there is gut hiking.  With regular hiking you can keep your tush firmly on the rail but still keep your legs stretched out, head under the upper lifeline and body leaned forward, hands at the knees, in a weird plank type position and I bet most people on this site could not maintain that pose for the entire way to the first upwind mark.  Their gut is not what would be hurting.

Opposed to the below which I've done hundreds of miles in and it is stupid.

[VWAP 1,099]

7 minutes ago, Foredeck Shuffle said:

There is hiking then there is gut hiking.  With regular hiking you can keep your tush firmly on the rail but still keep your legs stretched out, head under the upper lifeline and body leaned forward, hands at the knees, in a weird plank type position and I bet most people on this site could not maintain that pose for the entire way to the first upwind mark.  Their gut is not what would be hurting.

Opposed to the below which I've done hundreds of miles in and it is stupid.

 Easiest way to avoid that is always being the driver. As gramps says hiking is for those  others.

[Foredeck Shuffle 308]

4 minutes ago, VWAP said:

 Easiest way to avoid that is always being the driver. As gramps says hiking is for those  others.

The poors? 

I do drive my own boats.  But no matter how much of an asshole I try to be in the yard and around the club people keep asking me to sail with them.  When will they learn?

[VWAP 1,099]

2 minutes ago, Foredeck Shuffle said:

The poors? 

I do drive my own boats.  But no matter how much of an asshole I try to be in the yard and around the club people keep asking me to sail with them.  When will they learn?

Us tacticians standing in the back of the boat don't hike. But we will yell hike harder 

[Foredeck Shuffle 308]

8 minutes ago, VWAP said:

Us tacticians standing in the back of the boat don't hike. But we will yell hike harder 

Yeah but that's part of the drill to get the driver to pay more attention to the tell tales.  No matter how much they were being paid in the back I never had a tactician on a Farr40 tell me to gut hike.  It was always the smaller (>=30) boats.

[BlondeWithFreeBoat 85]

7 hours ago, Mr Moab said:

I am curious if any others have experienced similar issues and have possibly received feedback from other medical folks on this. 

I once ended up in the hospital with chest pains after a race week. I didn't fit any of the heart attack risk factors, and after EKGs, CT scans and X-rays, they determined I had a bruised spleen. It was swollen and pushing on my lung. The docs asked me to go through my activities over the past days, and when I described gut hiking, they immediately agreed that was the likely cause. Have also lost feeling in areas of my legs for some months following Farr 40 racing. 

[Sail4beer 3,419]

1 hour ago, VWAP said:

 

Out on parole?

[DA-WOODY 1,284]

2 hours ago, McGyver said:

I used hiking racks for the first time when I bought a Hobie Getaway, and I couldn't believe how good they were: I was sitting comfortably, high, with good vision of the waves, dry and projecting my weight out as much as trapezing. 

After having campaigned a Melges 24, I couldn't help but think how much nicer that boat would be with racks.

Nothing like a boat with

a couple Nice Racks on it

[Surfer7 34]

Isn't another "problem" with stressing the lifelines during hiking going to be possible water intrusion at the the stanchion bases. Especially if it's a cored deck where the stanchions are bolted on.

As for racks. I always enjoy nice racks on the female crew....

[Lex Teredo 383]

I'm only here waiting for @Hike, Bitches! to weigh in.  

[argh 3]

Even with padded lifelines, those wearable pads and the shorter stanchions, it was not comfortable hiking in the Melges 24. We were lucky that no injuries.

I would prefer a class rule change for legs in / backrest  Melges 20 style, or ass on deck rule like they have in J/70.

There would be less righting moment and slow us down a few tenths upwind, but in OD it would be the same for all except less painful.

 

[Gangbusters 279]

11 hours ago, Mr Moab said:

Am now on day 8 in the hospital after going to the ER and being diagnosed with an intestinal blockage. CT scans showed scarring of my small intestine that created a restriction and subsequently a blockage. I would not wish this level of pain and outcome to anyone. 
 

The GI specialist and surgeon were perplexed as to what caused this. I have none of the prior indicators (previous abdominal surgery, trauma etc). I am reasonably healthy in every other way according to my bloodwork and other tests.  Do need to drop some lbs. otoh, not eating for these past 8 days has been a good kickstart. 
 

After  few days here I started to wonder if rag dolling over a lower lifeline for five days at a recent windy event might be a possible cause. I grabbed some stock photos of crews bent over the lower lifeline and shared them with my doctors. They could not say with certainty that it was cause, but as I explained what 30-45 minute beat can be like, they grew more interested. 
 

I am curious if any others have experienced similar issues and have possibly received feedback from other medical folks on this. 

I have Crohn's disease. I have avoided intestinal surgery but have been in the hospital with blockages. Seems to happen every 6 months for the last 14 years.  Sometimes I can pinpoint it to something I ate. Pattern seems to be waking up with a lower back ache and some tenderness. Pain continues to increase and nausea starts. Within a few hours I vomiting with a pain level of 11/10. Off to the ER, then getting admitted, after a few days of NBM (nothing by mouth) and some drugs they send me home. 

[Mike Merrick 5]

Couldn't spend the time to read all the comments.  Besides the risk of potentially serious injuries, has anyone mentioned the safety issue? 

Four people relying on one lifeline to keep them from falling overboard.  If it breaks they have no hope of staying on the boat.  Now the driver is alone on a boat that needs rail meat in order for full control.  How is s/he/them going to rescue the crew?  Around here the water can be as low as 48F, and in those temps, the crew will be helpless pretty quickly.

Ban that stupid hiking method. Sit safely behind the upper lifeline.

 

[unShirley 256]

Get rid of lifelines on sport boats and hike Star/Finn style.

[Pertsa 270]

Bring back rail sniffing:

 

10 minutes ago, Mike Merrick said:

Four people relying on one lifeline to keep them from falling overboard.  If it breaks they have no hope of staying on the boat.  Now the driver is alone on a boat that needs rail meat in order for full control.  How is s/he/them going to rescue the crew?  Around here the water can be as low as 48F, and in those temps, the crew will be helpless pretty quickly.

I think I saw video of large sailboat losing most of its crew when lifeline snapped. I try to find it.

[greasy al 58]

3 hours ago, VWAP said:

Us tacticians standing in the back of the boat don't hike. But we will yell hike harder 

Don’t you have a boat full of co-eds to molest?

[Steam Flyer 8,440]

4 hours ago, Foredeck Shuffle said:

There is hiking then there is gut hiking.  With regular hiking you can keep your tush firmly on the rail but still keep your legs stretched out, head under the upper lifeline and body leaned forward, hands at the knees, in a weird plank type position and I bet most people on this site could not maintain that pose for the entire way to the first upwind mark.  Their gut is not what would be hurting.

Opposed to the below which I've done hundreds of miles in and it is stupid.

Those guys need to stop dragging their feet in the water. That's slow!

BTW small boats hiking feet-in with old fashioned hiking straps, that is definitely athletic. 25 years ago my wife and I straight-leg hiked in Lightnings and Johnson 18s for the first weather leg. Made enough of a difference that usually we didn't have to do it for the rest of the race.

- DSK

[Canal Bottom 12]

8 hours ago, M26 said:

how do you keep your boat flat?

Proper engineering and boat design.  The aggressive body efforts outside of the lifelines and sheer add nothing to the sport of yachting.  

[Foredeck Shuffle 308]

30 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Those guys need to stop dragging their feet in the water. That's slow!

BTW small boats hiking feet-in with old fashioned hiking straps, that is definitely athletic. 25 years ago my wife and I straight-leg hiked in Lightnings and Johnson 18s for the first weather leg. Made enough of a difference that usually we didn't have to do it for the rest of the race.

- DSK

I'm never buy anything but dinghies and sportboats to race because as one Aussie here on this site said a good decade ago, "I came out to sail with my mates and I want to see their faces, not their arses."

[VWAP 1,099]

50 minutes ago, greasy al said:

Don’t you have a boat full of co-eds to molest?

Why would I do that?

[Somebody Else 896]

Droop hiking over the lower lifeline is an abomination allowed by the current rules.

It is effective in adding righting moment but no one likes doing it. All it takes to end it is an agreement to write into the rules that it is not a legal way to hike. So long as it is legal, you have to do it to stay competitive. If it is made illegal, everyone is on an even playing field. There are many examples of rules written to limit unsafe or uncomfortable practices (lifelines, keels for self-righting after a capsize, etc.) If droop hiking over the lifeline is eliminated, it's not going to harm any class in a significant way.

[Bunchofgrapes 2]

This is THE single biggest reason I stopped sailing boats with lifelines. It killed me and I was fit, not mention the hours of fun staring at my sailing shoes.....

[VWAP 1,099]

13 minutes ago, Bunchofgrapes said:

, not mention the hours of fun staring at my sailing shoes.....

u should wear slippers instead

 

[he b gb 263]

1 hour ago, Pertsa said:

Bring back rail sniffing:

 

I think I saw video of large sailboat losing most of its crew when lifeline snapped. I try to find it.

Was it this one? If so I think it was the hiking strap that broke.sorry no link, I just got screenshots 

[Pertsa 270]

2 minutes ago, he b gb said:

Was it this one? If so I think it was the hiking strap that broke.sorry no link, I just got screenshots 

If I remember right, it was quite massive blue boat with crew facing outwards.  Video was taken from another boat following it.

[DOGSBALLS 0]

My daughter was offshore Sydney in a farr 40 ten years ago hiking,when the lacing on the lower lifeline at the stern snapped.

She and another crew fell towards the water,but as they fell the thimble on the lifeline hooked the next stanchion,and they fell onto a now taught lifeline.

They slithered off it into the water,but my daughter was winded and couldn't  breathe. 

The other crewmenber supported her till they were rescued by a spectator. 

Frightening.

[Monkey 2,378]

53 minutes ago, Pertsa said:

If I remember right, it was quite massive blue boat with crew facing outwards.  Video was taken from another boat following it.

Not the boat you were talking about, but I watched that exact situation happen to a B32. Luckily, they were short handed that day and just about to round the weather mark so only one person went over the side. 

[shaggybaxter 2,747]

Whilst I'm as competitive as the next chap, I like the idea of my crew enjoying their racing as well.

Whilst warp speed and being fire hosed wrapped around a wire is good for pickle dishes, high speed and being comfortable makes racing so much more fun. 

    

[NaptimeAgain 427]

10 hours ago, some dude said:

Tops of my thighs have been numb for the last 20 years or so, after several seasons of Melges 24s on the SF Cityfront. Feels like a local anesthetic.  I've always seen it as a small sacrifice for a ton of fun but wouldn't want to do more.  My answer would be different if it were Intestinal scarring though. 

Google neuralgia paresthetica.

[Monkey 2,378]

23 minutes ago, shaggybaxter said:

Whilst I'm as competitive as the next chap, I like the idea of my crew enjoying their racing as well.

Whilst warp speed and being fire hosed wrapped around a wire is good for pickle dishes, high speed and being comfortable makes racing so much more fun. 

    

The problem is that while most of us dream of boats like your ex Pogo, they won’t give us one on an IOU. 

[Mr Moab 112]

There seems some general agreement in this thread that this type of hiking is net negative. How do we put the genie Back in the bottle for handicap racing?

[See Level 1,186]

Increase the minimum lifeline tension rules.

[12 metre 657]

32 minutes ago, Mr Moab said:

There seems some general agreement in this thread that this type of hiking is net negative. How do we put the genie Back in the bottle for handicap racing?

IIRC, there was a period of time when the rule said the torso had to be inside the upper lifelines - or words to that effect.

Below are a few of the top boats at the '78 3/4T Worlds - Sachem and Hagar as well as the winning Pendragon.  Everyone is inside the lifelines - at a World Championship.  Not a disadvantage - because everyone had to sail that way.

[shaggybaxter 2,747]

48 minutes ago, Monkey said:

The problem is that while most of us dream of boats like your ex Pogo, they won’t give us one on an IOU. 

Yep, bastards. I was thinking about possibly another one but on a syndicate, but that all sounds too hard. 

Maybe we could copy the universal car thing. Make it so every boat in the marina is up for use. 

I would move to wherever there is a Cookson 50. 

As a minimum, all stink boats should be up for grabs. Some of the local ones could benefit in actually moving occasionally. 

 

[Monkey 2,378]

26 minutes ago, shaggybaxter said:

Yep, bastards. I was thinking about possibly another one but on a syndicate, but that all sounds too hard. 

Maybe we could copy the universal car thing. Make it so every boat in the marina is up for use. 

I would move to wherever there is a Cookson 50. 

As a minimum, all stink boats should be up for grabs. Some of the local ones could benefit in actually moving occasionally. 

 

My new boat isn’t quite the dream that a new Pogo is, but it is the same concept at least at deck level. It’s massively beamy for its length, so we can still do well with people comfy hiking. 

[wajamamaj 24]

weird this has been going on for what 30 years? WTF Melges 24 people? Aren't midwesterners supposed to be smarter?

I never sailed the M24 but they always looked very cool - until I saw the gut hiking...

[McGyver 71]

7 hours ago, Mike Merrick said:

Couldn't spend the time to read all the comments.  Besides the risk of potentially serious injuries, has anyone mentioned the safety issue? 

Four people relying on one lifeline to keep them from falling overboard.  If it breaks they have no hope of staying on the boat.  Now the driver is alone on a boat that needs rail meat in order for full control.  How is s/he/them going to rescue the crew?  Around here the water can be as low as 48F, and in those temps, the crew will be helpless pretty quickly.

Ban that stupid hiking method. Sit safely behind the upper lifeline.

 

Actually, sitting behind the upper lifeline is not comfortable because you don't have any back support.  Between the lifelines, leaning on the upper one, is more comfortable.

[VWAP 1,099]

1 hour ago, wajamamaj said:

weird this has been going on for what 30 years? WTF Melges 24 people? Aren't midwesterners supposed to be smarter?

I never sailed the M24 but they always looked very cool - until I saw the gut hiking...

RRS 49.2 can be modified

[weightless 708]

35 minutes ago, McGyver said:

Actually, sitting behind the upper lifeline is not comfortable because you don't have any back support.  Between the lifelines, leaning on the upper one, is more comfortable.

Yep. IIRC, that was the motivation to change the rule. Sitting cross legged facing inboard can be comfy for flexible folk.

[Meat Wad 769]

16 hours ago, dogwatch said:

A few years ago I expressed a similar opinion and Clean told me, at length, that I must be old, unfit and generally unworthy.

Oh well.

[Latadjust 213]

3 hours ago, See Level said:

Increase the minimum lifeline tension rules.

Or get rid if the lower lifeline...

[Latadjust 213]

8 hours ago, Mike Merrick said:

 

Four people relying on one lifeline to keep them from falling overboard.  If it breaks they have no hope of staying on the boat 

 

Story time, this is no shit, Express 37 on SF Bay, crew of 10,  8 on the lifelines, heading out we ran a secondary high tech spare line along the run of the lifeline for a back up, can't remember why,  weather leg hiking hard, ss lifeline broke, backup sagged down a couple feet between stanchions, everyone hanging on that backup and/or nearest stanchion. I had my arm around a stanchion, my head was just at deck level over the side, guy next to me had an arm over the low hanging lifeline and the other arm over my thigh while I held it at a 90 till other crew pulled him on board, then I got back on deck, everyone back in the boat - carry on racing. One of those times that you go with and push hard while its happening, then later you think about other possible outcomes. 

[Schakel 262]

Droop hiking is effective for larger keelboats.

[Latadjust 213]

1 hour ago, McGyver said:

 Between the lifelines, leaning on the upper one, is more comfortable.

A lot of people don't totally commit to drooping. I found it harder on my guts to have the lower lifeline in the vicinity of my bellybutton and the rail at the back of my knees (lots of people hike like this, it isn't effective). If I pushed farther over where the rail was at the middle of my hamstring and the lower lifeline was at the groin it was much more comfortable. Your butt is up OFF the deck a few inches with this form.

We'd say they should be able to serve ourdeauvres and cocktails off your back, table top. The tactician hiking out should be able to see ahead.

[Matt Franzek 0]

That sounds like a miserable 8 days…. Sorry dude!

 

Sounds like more people need to buy and drive their own boats, and recruit/train new crew.  Then vote to pass class rules to minimize crew damage on fun boats.  I’m sure this entire crew destroying themselves hiking could lead to a rant about why sailing is dieing, and things we could do to make sailing more fun to grow the sport.

[some dude 201]

6 hours ago, NaptimeAgain said:

Google neuralgia paresthetica.

Bingo

[Pertsa 270]

3 hours ago, Schakel said:

Droop hiking is effective for larger keelboats.

Modern 5.5´s even "happen" to have flat sides so it is somewhat comfortable position.

[14berlin 44]

Gut hiking is what killed keelboat racing for me. Besides beeing super uncomfortable it just feels like you are not involved in racing and maybe you aren't. I hated it on the Melges and then again on the B/one and J70 which were not sailed with class rules in our national circuit. You just look down at the water and try to overcome the pain while questioning your role on board besides being ballast.

Sportboat I enjoyed the most is the Streamline. Like a big 505, cheap, and rated faster than a Melges. But I guess people who like trapeze sailing just go with dinghies anyway.

 

 

[Schakel 262]

2 hours ago, Pertsa said:

Modern 5.5´s even "happen" to have flat sides so it is somewhat comfortable position.

Woot, Want One of Those......

 

[Matagi 1,451]

2 hours ago, Pertsa said:

Modern 5.5´s even "happen" to have flat sides so it is somewhat comfortable position.

I admit: my first thought was: why is everyone on that Scow looking backwards?

[Marcjsmith 1,006]

Go to the extreme and Implement frostbite style rules, where you gotta have a foot in the cockpit unless you are actively doing work at the mast or on deck.

[daan62 311]

[Mid 4,419]

22 hours ago, Grande Mastere Dreade said:

travel down...

beat me to it .

[VWAP 1,099]

[Surfer7 34]

As a lifelong dingy sailor I found it glorious when I transitioned to keelboats in 2015. No hiking required! Nirvana! But then I am not racing the keelboat. No amount of money could get me to hike with my gut or my back pressed against a safety line as shown in various photos above.

[Surfer7 34]

41 minutes ago, VWAP said:

Looks like a vintage wood C-scow (early 1960s?).  All three should have their ankles in the straps and be hiking normally. The skipper is a fool.

[unShirley 256]

Other sports have legislated rules to protect the players i.e. no "targeting" in (American) football.  Sailing should, too.  If there is documented physical damage from the current form of hiking through the lifelines, as is indicated by several posters including the OP, then the practice should be banned.  What are they waiting for?  Lawsuits to force their hand?

[CovBoy 18]

I want to be a sandbag when I grow up…….
 

 

CB

[Svanen 386]

On 11/24/2021 at 6:30 AM, dogwatch said:

A few years ago I expressed a similar opinion and Clean told me, at length, that I must be old, unfit and generally unworthy.

That is the standard retort voiced by imbeciles when more intelligent people are reluctant to do stupid things.

[LB 15 6,534]

On 11/24/2021 at 7:39 PM, sunseeker said:

I know multiple people who have sustained nerve damage from gut hiking.

It is an utterly idiotic way to sail. 
 

The funny part is the fact semi pro sailors think they are so fucking cool to be paid to sail, and yet the vast majority of them have to self torture for most of the race to get paid. Nice work, if you are willing to abuse yourself for a couple of hundred dollars a day. 
 

And people wonder why the sport is on life support.

Thank you for your application to join our program, but we currently have a full roster. We appreciate your thoughts on occupational health and safety and on our programs pay structure. As we don’t foresee a position for you, well to be honest, ever, we wish you well in your future sailing endeavours. A chap with your charm, wit and positive attitude will be an asset to any program. Let’s keep in touch. 

[sunseeker 458]

2 hours ago, LB 15 said:

Thank you for your application to join our program, but we currently have a full roster. We appreciate your thoughts on occupational health and safety and on our programs pay structure. As we don’t foresee a position for you, well to be honest, ever, we wish you well in your future sailing endeavours. A chap with your charm, wit and positive attitude will be an asset to any program. Let’s keep in touch. 

Go fuck yourself. You are one of the biggest pieces of shit on this site. 

[Schakel 262]

14 hours ago, daan62 said:

Hij hobbelt lekker over de golven. Ha Daan.
Wave behaviour of a dragon is comfortable.
 

[LB 15 6,534]

4 hours ago, sunseeker said:

Go fuck yourself. You are one of the biggest pieces of shit on this site. 

Ok. well then lets not keep in touch then.

[LB 15 6,534]

On 11/24/2021 at 11:51 PM, sunseeker said:

Remember when people used to wear 40+ pounds of wet sweatshirts?  

Err no we don't. Are you sure you are not just a fat cunt?

[JM1366 57]

16 hours ago, VWAP said:

Scows have been around long enough to pre-date the use of hiking straps. Hard to tell, but that photo might be from that era.

Before hiking straps, the crew would "ride the boards". That is, drop the weather board down six or eight inches (it's out of the water anyway if you're healed up properly), and stand outside the boat on the board.

Now in that photo, I'm going to take a wild guess and say it's an E-boat, and the skipper is being a dufus and riding the rudder. Seems like a good way to break a rudder if you ask me.

[JM1366 57]

I've never understood the idea of taco-hiking, BTW. When the crew hikes, it pretty much takes them out of commission. There's no playing the vang when your crew is hiking like that. Furthermore, most of the time the skipper and tactician can't hear a word of what the crew is saying. It's a crappy system all around.

I never quite understood why Buddy didn't have them put hiking straps, rather than lifelines, on the M24.

I've always felt that hiking on scows is physically more demanding, but also a lot less painful. At least in my own experience, taco-hiking (keelboats) and bilgeboard horns (older scows) are the two biggest sources of bruises while sailing.

[Jambalaya 25]

Firstly MrMoab best wishes for your recovery, sending you healing vibes

The Melges 24 is a great boat but the hiking I hated and I only ever did 1 day as most of the time I was helming.

The new classes like Melges 20 and J70 are basically non-hiking boats and they are better for it