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Nuke the hydro fouling winged cats


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All this talk of not doing the AC defense in NZ. So idiotic. It’s just stupidly expensive, for no advantage whatsoever to the sport of sailing, spectators, or sponsors. Clearly true, or there would be zero problems.

Good things to do:

1) An AC only class

2) The world’s best sailors

3) Close racing with many passing lanes.

Item 2 means the boats must be a refinement of common competition boats, and highly tweakable on the course while racing.

Item 3 demands boats with multiple speed modes.

So items 2 and 3 disqualify winged foiling cats.
 

Instead, planing monos that do sail changes, with lots of power instead of pure efficiency so bad air is not as deadly.

Something like TP52. Maybe about 60 feet. Fixed keel, about 3m draft. Huge rigs so fast in all conditions and mode changes including sail changes are essential.

The AC75 must be killed.

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1 hour ago, carcrash said:

All this talk of not doing the AC defense in NZ. So idiotic. It’s just stupidly expensive, for no advantage whatsoever to the sport of sailing, spectators, or sponsors. Clearly true, or there would be zero problems.

Good things to do:

1) An AC only class

2) The world’s best sailors

3) Close racing with many passing lanes.

Item 2 means the boats must be a refinement of common competition boats, and highly tweakable on the course while racing.

Item 3 demands boats with multiple speed modes.

So items 2 and 3 disqualify winged foiling cats.
 

Instead, planing monos that do sail changes, with lots of power instead of pure efficiency so bad air is not as deadly.

Something like TP52. Maybe about 60 feet. Fixed keel, about 3m draft. Huge rigs so fast in all conditions and mode changes including sail changes are essential.

The AC75 must be killed.

Did you notice all the people wearing masks and wonder what that was about?

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3 hours ago, carcrash said:

All this talk of not doing the AC defense in NZ. So idiotic. It’s just stupidly expensive, for no advantage whatsoever to the sport of sailing, spectators, or sponsors. Clearly true, or there would be zero problems.

Good things to do:

1) An AC only class

2) The world’s best sailors

3) Close racing with many passing lanes.

Item 2 means the boats must be a refinement of common competition boats, and highly tweakable on the course while racing.

Item 3 demands boats with multiple speed modes.

So items 2 and 3 disqualify winged foiling cats.
 

Instead, planing monos that do sail changes, with lots of power instead of pure efficiency so bad air is not as deadly.

Something like TP52. Maybe about 60 feet. Fixed keel, about 3m draft. Huge rigs so fast in all conditions and mode changes including sail changes are essential.

The AC75 must be killed.

Sortof agree, but foiling cats have to be less platform-expensive than the flying bug class. At least a cat is stable off the foil.

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2 hours ago, carcrash said:

So you think Covid is permanent? I don’t. 

I didn't used to until today. The new variant will start the cycle over until the new mRNA brew is ready, then more vax fights. In the meantime, America is wide open and unmasked. Don't come here. Don't let us in. 

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1 hour ago, NeedAClew said:

I didn't used to until today. The new variant will start the cycle over until the new mRNA brew is ready, then more vax fights. In the meantime, America is wide open and unmasked. Don't come here. Don't let us in. 

It has gone from pandemic to endemic. But if we are vaccinated and the treatments continue to improve eventually it will be like the flu. That is the best we can hope for. But it’s not going away, that was wishful thinking.

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13 hours ago, loneshark64 said:

It has gone from pandemic to endemic. But if we are vaccinated and the treatments continue to improve eventually it will be like the flu. That is the best we can hope for. But it’s not going away, that was wishful thinking.

If I were younger I would be more sanguine. I am at an age where my remaining vigorous adventure travel years are being consumed by covid not liveaboard trips. 

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4 minutes ago, NeedAClew said:

If I were younger I would be more sanguine. I am at an age where my remaining vigorous adventure travel years are being consumed by covid not liveaboard trips. 

Yup. But we adapt to what is, go where we can go.

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12 hours ago, Monkey said:

You’re right. Instead the new boats cost twice as much to go the same speed. 

Puleeze...I believe the consensus is that the Jesus lizard boats would smoke the J  foil cats in vmg, both up and down.

I was supplying a fork to better appreciate this latest FU thread.

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On 11/26/2021 at 10:26 AM, Erwankerauzen said:

The olympic class keel boat STAR is a perfect one design, she requires only a crew of 3 , is perfect for match race

Much more exciting than the AC 75 for sure

Yup because every star is identical… :lol:

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On 11/27/2021 at 3:48 AM, NeedAClew said:

If I were younger I would be more sanguine. I am at an age where my remaining vigorous adventure travel years are being consumed by covid not liveaboard trips. 

How true and very sad. There is only so much fun to be gleaned from stirring shit around here. ;-)

I wonder if, Europe (specifically, 55.6761° N, 12.5683° E) will still be there, post covid?

Meantime, a mach 0.75 plane might be even more deadly than a slow boat.

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It is weird to me that the above goals, pretty obvious, are not being emphasized. Instead, big expensive weird boats that don't require sailors. Like watching one guy playing a video game nobody else can buy.

1) Unique AC class

2) Best sailors.

3) Lots of passing lanes.

AC75 is perhaps the worst possible boat if (2) or (3) matter at all.

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1) Having the money to afford 2 and 3.
2) The best sailors
3) The best designers

2 and 3 don't necessarily need to be in that order, but they need to play nice with each other.

It has ever been, nor ever will be about "lots of passing lanes". As a spectator, sure, that might be exciting (if you know what a race course looks like, and where to find passing lanes), but as a defender or challenger, you want the best designers and best sailors to REDUCE the passing lanes by way of a faster boat or a better sailing team. The sailors and CEO's can get on camera and talk about how great or close a race was, but that's not what they spend millions of R&D dollars on.

Our opinions about what we'd like to see in the cup really don't matter at all to anyone who can afford to play at that level (see 1).

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The thing about the first foiling cats in San Francisco was that there were random passing lanes: if anyone fell off foils, that instantly made a passing opportunity.

That went away with the next two AC events. And with it, the excitement.

Racing without excitement is not exciting.

A multi-mode boat, that planes or not, with sail changes, tweaks, ability to tack and gybe lots of times with minimal speed impact: passing lanes.

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10 hours ago, carcrash said:

ability to tack and gybe lots of times with minimal speed impact: passing lanes.

You just described the ac75. I don't think any boat has been able to tack and gybe with less loss of vmg than the vmg monsters ac75's.

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I just keep going back to every time there was a mildly close port/starboard in AC36, the commentators would excitedly declare "ooh, match racing!" I'll allow that I'm in the minority, but when I watch match racing I want to see stuff like the lead boat going for the downwind hook to scrub a penalty off, the trailing boat jibing back and forth, trying to force a mistake and get over the top. As a sailor, that's exciting sailing to watch. Plenty of motorsports out there if you just want to see shit go fast and break.

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9 hours ago, Sisu3360 said:

I just keep going back to every time there was a mildly close port/starboard in AC36, the commentators would excitedly declare "ooh, match racing!" I'll allow that I'm in the minority, but when I watch match racing I want to see stuff like the lead boat going for the downwind hook to scrub a penalty off, the trailing boat jibing back and forth, trying to force a mistake and get over the top. As a sailor, that's exciting sailing to watch. Plenty of motorsports out there if you just want to see shit go fast and break.

Then watch the WMRT and not the AC. 

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4 hours ago, Rennmaus said:

Then watch the WMRT and not the AC. 

The AC used to have some of the best match racing around, and the WMRT was once a great feeder event for the AC. I would argue that the critical flaw with the pre-2013 AC was the course length, not the boats. Shorter courses and more races are the right way to do match racing. Shorter races and more starts mean the blowouts are over quicker, speed differentials are minimized (in displacement boats, anyway), and there's a greater upset potential.

I think SailGP has it right that if you're going to be sailing these speed machines, fleet racing is the way to go. Ditch this bastardized version of match racing.

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17 minutes ago, Sisu3360 said:

The AC used to have some of the best match racing around, and the WMRT was once a great feeder event for the AC. I would argue that the critical flaw with the pre-2013 AC was the course length, not the boats. Shorter courses and more races are the right way to do match racing. Shorter races and more starts mean the blowouts are over quicker, speed differentials are minimized (in displacement boats, anyway), and there's a greater upset potential.

I think SailGP has it right that if you're going to be sailing these speed machines, fleet racing is the way to go. Ditch this bastardized version of match racing.

You are right, the AC once was a match racing event. It was one out of the making of the defender and challenger, not out of itself. Match racing rules did not apply for the first 10 or so matches (best guess, but you know what I mean).
Mind you, it's not a fleet race either. It's a design competition that results in a sailboat race under the rules that are agreed between defender and challenger, may they be match racing or any made-up rules.

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