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Convincing scared RNA vaxxers


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Heya, just wondering if anyone has some better google fu than me or science knowledge and wants to share the answers to 2 questions I thought might help those concerned with the new rna vaccines.  I am asking this due to some pro-vaxxers not wanting to get the new COVID vaccines due to timeframes of production.

It seems once you accept it is a different method than the previous trial and test of "get animal cells, expose to virus, after animal adaptive immunity and virus have at it... see if mutation is good" approach the timeframe from invention to release seems better to me.

1: What percentage of a whole complete functional virus is in an rna vaccine?  So from my understanding the new vaccines just contain the "spike protein" only of a functional "live" virus which is enough to train our adaptive immune systems to recognise it.  Looking at computer generated images from Electron Microscopy it looks a pretty small piece of the functional virus.  My idea for a 1 line argument is "I'd prefer to be infected with x% of a virus than the whole active, cell conquering beast..."

2: Most sane people think that the Polio vaccine is pretty sweet.  What portion of animal cell is left in the vaccine and injected into you?  Best I can find is "some traces may remain", of Monkey liver or cow cell.  lol.  I haven't come across any explanation of how to separate virus from culture after you grow your mutated virus and how successful that is.

I am polio vaccinated though and have urges to scratch my armpits so who knows, maybe I got more monkey than most?

 

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30 minutes ago, sparau said:

Heya, just wondering if anyone has some better google fu than me or science knowledge and wants to share the answers to 2 questions I thought might help those concerned with the new rna vaccines.  I am asking this due to some pro-vaxxers not wanting to get the new COVID vaccines due to timeframes of production.

It seems once you accept it is a different method than the previous trial and test of "get animal cells, expose to virus, after animal adaptive immunity and virus have at it... see if mutation is good" approach the timeframe from invention to release seems better to me.

1: What percentage of a whole complete functional virus is in an rna vaccine?  So from my understanding the new vaccines just contain the "spike protein" only of a functional "live" virus which is enough to train our adaptive immune systems to recognise it.  Looking at computer generated images from Electron Microscopy it looks a pretty small piece of the functional virus.  My idea for a 1 line argument is "I'd prefer to be infected with x% of a virus than the whole active, cell conquering beast..."

2: Most sane people think that the Polio vaccine is pretty sweet.  What portion of animal cell is left in the vaccine and injected into you?  Best I can find is "some traces may remain", of Monkey liver or cow cell.  lol.  I haven't come across any explanation of how to separate virus from culture after you grow your mutated virus and how successful that is.

I am polio vaccinated though and have urges to scratch my armpits so who knows, maybe I got more monkey than most?

 

Folks who’d rather get the nasty virus vs a day of side effects of a vaccine? At this point, dumbasses    gotta dumbass.

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41 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

Folks who’d rather get the nasty virus vs a day of side effects of a vaccine? At this point, dumbasses    gotta dumbass.

Thanks for your low-IQ answer...

Anyone with half a brain would question if there will be long term side affects from the vaccines as they are all two new for anyone to be 100/% certain. Then you need to assess the risk of not being vaccinated.

 

I felt more comfortable with Astra Zenica because it used a "tried and tested" approach to creating the vaccine and therefore have more faith that there will be no log term side-affects. I considered that various leaders unfairly demonised AZ and it should have been heavily promoted to all but the highest blood clot risk groups. 

Given that you have to sign an indemnity form when getting vaccinated, people should be asking questions before making an informed choice, rather than blindly following their leaders.

 

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, The Dark Knight said:

Thanks for your low-IQ answer...

Anyone with half a brain would question if there will be long term side affects from the vaccines as they are all two new for anyone to be 100/% certain. Then you need to assess the risk of not being vaccinated.

 

I felt more comfortable with Astra Zenica because it used a "tried and tested" approach to creating the vaccine and therefore have more faith that there will be no log term side-affects. I considered that various leaders unfairly demonised AZ and it should have been heavily promoted to all but the highest blood clot risk groups. 

Given that you have to sign an indemnity form when getting vaccinated, people should be asking questions before making an informed choice, rather than blindly following their leaders.

 

 

 

 

 

you obviously don't understand what the vaccines are made of and how the vaccines work.

 

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2 hours ago, Ease the sheet. said:

...by infecting our cells with spike protein genetic material?

Causing our cells to make the spike protein?

This isn't my area at all but would it sound more harmless and indeed more accurate to say

'by exposing our adaptive immune system to the spike protein of covid'?

'Causing our t cells to identify it more readily as an invader'. ?

Correct me if i'm wrong any budding or full blown immunologists : )

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16 minutes ago, sparau said:

This isn't my area at all but would it sound more harmless and indeed more accurate to say

'by exposing our adaptive immune system to the spike protein of covid'?

'Causing our t cells to identify it more readily as an invader'. ?

Correct me if i'm wrong any budding or full blown immunologists : )

That's the end result.

The vaccine is a way to introduce the spike protein into our body.

 

 

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I've actually had some luck by pointing out the obvious -  You don't have a choice anymore.  You're either going to get the vaccine or you're going to get the virus.  At least with the vaccine, you get to pick when.  You don't get to 'not play' anymore.   That choice ended a long time ago.

You can be mad about how we got here, but we're here.

Follow up with answering specific questions.  That worked twice.  So that's good.

 

 

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Based on a microscopic sample, I had 4 friends have heart attacks last spring and I cannot remember any heart attacks among friends/connections going back more than 10 years. It did give me pause but did not stop me getting my second vaccination. 

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23 minutes ago, danstanford said:

Based on a microscopic sample, I had 4 friends have heart attacks last spring and I cannot remember any heart attacks among friends/connections going back more than 10 years. It did give me pause but did not stop me getting my second vaccination. 

Have you had a heart attack?

 

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44 minutes ago, danstanford said:

Based on a microscopic sample, I had 4 friends have heart attacks last spring and I cannot remember any heart attacks among friends/connections going back more than 10 years. It did give me pause but did not stop me getting my second vaccination. 

And I know 3 women diagnosed with breast cancer in the last 12 months. I cant think of any women I know being diagnose with breast cancer going back ten years.

Must be Vaccine related.:rolleyes:

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1 hour ago, danstanford said:

Based on a microscopic sample, I had 4 friends have heart attacks last spring and I cannot remember any heart attacks among friends/connections going back more than 10 years. It did give me pause but did not stop me getting my second vaccination. 

It would be wise to disregard guidance from “public health authorities” and ask your doctor for advice 

DE8CDFEE-D713-4FA2-A4FF-C38DDD9B794B.png

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2 hours ago, sparau said:

This isn't my area at all but would it sound more harmless and indeed more accurate to say

'by exposing our adaptive immune system to the spike protein of covid'?

'Causing our t cells to identify it more readily as an invader'. ?

Correct me if i'm wrong any budding or full blown immunologists : )

The mRNA vaccine actually causes some of your cells to generate the spike protein. Your immune system then trains to recognize it. There’s only a small amount of the vaccine at one time so a limited amount of the protein is generated. The vaccine doesn’t replicate, so once a cell has produced a batch of the protein it goes back to doing what it does or dies.

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40 minutes ago, slug zitski said:

It would be wise to disregard guidance from “public health authorities” and ask your doctor for advice 

DE8CDFEE-D713-4FA2-A4FF-C38DDD9B794B.png

Yep,

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So what I don't get is the inability of anyone from either side to step off the dogma that justifies the decision they have made. There is lots of conflicting data and likely there will continue to be so. It will take time to really understand the long term implications of both Covid19 and the vaccines and until then most of us have made a decision for ourselves but damn it all, can't you still be curious? 

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Just now, danstanford said:

So what I don't get is the inability of anyone from either side to step off the dogma that justifies the decision they have made. There is lots of conflicting data and likely there will continue to be so. It will take time to really understand the long term implications of both Covid19 and the vaccines and until then most of us have made a decision for ourselves but damn it all, can't you still be curious? 

Vacinating children is madness 

adults make their own desicions 

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2 hours ago, ShortForBob said:

And I know 3 women diagnosed with breast cancer in the last 12 months. I cant think of any women I know being diagnose with breast cancer going back ten years.

Must be Vaccine related.:rolleyes:

All the people in my Radiation Oncology waiting areas were vaccinated.  Clear proof.   

Also 10 years ago my hair was not so gray.  I got vaccinated and it is gray. Clear proof.

10 years ago, the great philanthropist LE had the Americas Cup in his bedroom.  Then I got vaccinated and now GD has it somewhere.  Clear proof.

 

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1 hour ago, NeedAClew said:

All the people in my Radiation Oncology waiting areas were vaccinated.  Clear proof.   

Also 10 years ago my hair was not so gray.  I got vaccinated and it is gray. Clear proof.

10 years ago, the great philanthropist LE had the Americas Cup in his bedroom.  Then I got vaccinated and now GD has it somewhere.  Clear proof.

 

Some people (not you, I might add) have difficulty differentiating between these two:

Correlation Vs Causation - GeeksforGeeks

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5 hours ago, slug zitski said:

It would be wise to disregard guidance from “public health authorities” and ask your doctor for advice 

DE8CDFEE-D713-4FA2-A4FF-C38DDD9B794B.png

It's a futbol player fer gawd's sake.  They collapse if they step on a wet blade of grass wrong.   

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6 hours ago, Raz'r said:

The mRNA vaccine actually causes some of your cells to generate the spike protein. Your immune system then trains to recognize it. There’s only a small amount of the vaccine at one time so a limited amount of the protein is generated. The vaccine doesn’t replicate, so once a cell has produced a batch of the protein it goes back to doing what it does or dies.

Thanks Razr - yes that makes sense.

Still the original concept I thought I'd try and make sound friendlier was:

Quote

...by infecting our cells with spike protein genetic material?

Causing our cells to make the spike protein?

When trying to defuse people's fears I think it's worthwhile to be careful with words.

A protein has no genetic material, and sure, while due to EpiGenetics (animal's response to environment) it will cause a change in our genome that change will be our bodies' immune response not some alien DNA being added.

The only "infecting with genetic material" that could occur would be with the complete functional virus, not the spike protein.  In fact that is an argument for vaccination rather than catching the functional complete virus to gain adaptive immunity.

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8 hours ago, Gangbusters said:

If that was a hockey game they would just shock him and he would be ready for his next shift.

How many hockey players have died from heart attacks this year? Other sport players?

8 hours ago, Raz'r said:

If true, and I always suspect your sources, but probably long-Covid. 

It's not true.

Plenty of fact checkers have called bullshit.

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19 hours ago, sparau said:

 

2: Most sane people think that the Polio vaccine is pretty sweet.  

 

The polio vaccine used Thimerosal as a preservative (Mercury).    It is no longer used and the amount of Mercury in all the vaccines a kid would get back in the day was something like the same, or less, than a tuna sammich.   

But antivaxxers have latched on to Thimerosal and many believe that Mercury is still used in vaccines.   It isn't.  

But it's amazing to think that if people back then had today's internet with it's spread of misinformation about vaccines, it's safe to say we'd still have Polio today.   Ironic that the internet has ushered in a new Dark Age of information when it could have done the opposite.  Just look at the increase of people who believe the Earth is flat and vaccines contain nanobots. 

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2 minutes ago, Clove Hitch said:

The polio vaccine used Thimerosal as a preservative (Mercury).    It is no longer used and the amount of Mercury in all the vaccines a kid would get back in the day was something like the same, or less, than a tuna sammich.   

But antivaxxers have latched on to Thimerosal and many believe that Mercury is still used in vaccines.   It isn't.  

But it's amazing to think that if people back then had today's internet with it's spread of misinformation about vaccines, it's safe to say we'd still have Polio today.   Ironic that the internet has ushered in a new Dark Age of information when it could have done the opposite.  Just look at the increase of people who believe the Earth is flat and vaccines contain nanobots. 

The case fatality ratio for paralytic polio is generally 2% to 5% among children and up to 15% to 30% among adolescents and adults. It increases to 25% to 75% with bulbar involvement.
 

 

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7 hours ago, slug zitski said:

Vacinating children is madness 

 

You're a fucking idiot.  You don't want kids vaccinated against chicken pox, mumps and all the other horrible shit that could kill them?  Do you know how small the airway is on an infant and how quick mumps can close it?  Fucking hell, it's crazy that @Editor lets you post your deadly shit here. 

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1 minute ago, slug zitski said:

The case fatality ratio for paralytic polio is generally 2% to 5% among children and up to 15% to 30% among adolescents and adults. It increases to 25% to 75% with bulbar involvement.
 

 

What about non-fatal life long complications?

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Why even treat children with medicines of any sort?  Those all have side effects and the kids can't give informed consent. Better to rely on natural hardiness. Will be good for the gene pool, too. [Sarcasm font]

Also, if we stopped trying to persuade the vaccine scared and freedumbs to get vaxxed and instead started the appearance of restricting access to vaccines, maybe they would demand their rights to have theirs. [ sarcasm but probably some would]

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13 minutes ago, NeedAClew said:

Why even treat children with medicines of any sort?  Those all have side effects and the kids can't give informed consent. Better to rely on natural hardiness. Will be good for the gene pool, too. [Sarcasm font]

Also, if we stopped trying to persuade the vaccine scared and freedumbs to get vaxxed and instead started the appearance of restricting access to vaccines, maybe they would demand their rights to have theirs. [ sarcasm but probably some would]

Give vaccines to Africa.

That will fire up the entitled whiteys.

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Sadly places like South Africa have lots of vaccine, much like the US and EU, but due to all the crap misinformation spewed online, like some posters here, most have chosen not to get vaccinated and here we go with another variant that will cause yet another major wave there and in neighboring states and eventually the whole world and lead to probably millions more dying unnecessarily, unless we are very lucky and Omicron does not cause as serious disease. US alone still has over 1000 deaths per day due to Delta infection in unvaccinated covidiots.

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4 hours ago, slug zitski said:

The case fatality ratio for paralytic polio is generally 2% to 5% among children and up to 15% to 30% among adolescents and adults. It increases to 25% to 75% with bulbar involvement.
 

So, you're saying a little polio isn't that bad?

 

  

4 hours ago, slug zitski said:

The case fatality rate for children from Covid is close to zero

And they're all going to die anyway sooner or later

- DSK

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3 hours ago, TheDragon said:

Sadly places like South Africa have lots of vaccine, much like the US and EU, but due to all the crap misinformation spewed online, like some posters here, most have chosen not to get vaccinated and here we go with another variant that will cause yet another major wave there and in neighboring states and eventually the whole world and lead to probably millions more dying unnecessarily, unless we are very lucky and Omicron does not cause as serious disease. US alone still has over 1000 deaths per day due to Delta infection in unvaccinated covidiots.

Darwin always wins in the end.  It turns out that the genetic trait that predisposes people to believing bullshit they read on-line may be significantly reduced in the gene pool shortly.

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5 hours ago, Clove Hitch said:

What about non-fatal life long complications?

My friends son is in the grips of covid-depression - losing him his first year of college. Sluggo doesn't think that's a big deal.

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On 11/26/2021 at 11:05 PM, slug zitski said:

'So what is causing this sudden epidemic'?

Who knows? Obviously there were more moron around than at first thought. Couple this with some bullshit on facebook and some ludicrous vids on youtube and bang! The global stupidity pandemic began. But unlike covid 19, there is no vaccine and never will be. Studies have shown that the most at risk are the disenfranchised, those without many teeth and mouth breathers. Symptoms include leaving caps lock on always and re-posting childish, humorless memes.

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On 11/26/2021 at 11:31 PM, danstanford said:

Based on a microscopic sample, I had 4 friends have heart attacks last spring and I cannot remember any heart attacks among friends/connections going back more than 10 years. It did give me pause but did not stop me getting my second vaccination. 

Indeed. At our local yacht club there have been reports of swollen heads and enormous swinging dicks.

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On 11/27/2021 at 2:28 PM, Raz'r said:

My friends son is in the grips of covid-depression - losing him his first year of college. Sluggo doesn't think that's a big deal.

How could he? He has neither sons or friends.

Best wishes for your lad's mate.

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40 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

Oh I am stealing that! I have been trolling hard on a anti-vaxer FB page and i will use that.

The second my current time out from facebook ends.

Since I swiped it from the Meme thread in GA, you're welcome to it. 

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On 11/26/2021 at 5:31 AM, danstanford said:

Based on a microscopic sample, I had 4 friends have heart attacks last spring and I cannot remember any heart attacks among friends/connections going back more than 10 years. It did give me pause but did not stop me getting my second vaccination. 

Ever notice a Ridgeline on the road, then start to notice how many other Ridgelines are out there?  

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