Convincing scared RNA vaxxers

[sparau 87]

Heya, just wondering if anyone has some better google fu than me or science knowledge and wants to share the answers to 2 questions I thought might help those concerned with the new rna vaccines.  I am asking this due to some pro-vaxxers not wanting to get the new COVID vaccines due to timeframes of production.

It seems once you accept it is a different method than the previous trial and test of "get animal cells, expose to virus, after animal adaptive immunity and virus have at it... see if mutation is good" approach the timeframe from invention to release seems better to me.

1: What percentage of a whole complete functional virus is in an rna vaccine?  So from my understanding the new vaccines just contain the "spike protein" only of a functional "live" virus which is enough to train our adaptive immune systems to recognise it.  Looking at computer generated images from Electron Microscopy it looks a pretty small piece of the functional virus.  My idea for a 1 line argument is "I'd prefer to be infected with x% of a virus than the whole active, cell conquering beast..."

2: Most sane people think that the Polio vaccine is pretty sweet.  What portion of animal cell is left in the vaccine and injected into you?  Best I can find is "some traces may remain", of Monkey liver or cow cell.  lol.  I haven't come across any explanation of how to separate virus from culture after you grow your mutated virus and how successful that is.

I am polio vaccinated though and have urges to scratch my armpits so who knows, maybe I got more monkey than most?

 

[Raz'r 5,200]

30 minutes ago, sparau said:

Heya, just wondering if anyone has some better google fu than me or science knowledge and wants to share the answers to 2 questions I thought might help those concerned with the new rna vaccines.  I am asking this due to some pro-vaxxers not wanting to get the new COVID vaccines due to timeframes of production.

It seems once you accept it is a different method than the previous trial and test of "get animal cells, expose to virus, after animal adaptive immunity and virus have at it... see if mutation is good" approach the timeframe from invention to release seems better to me.

1: What percentage of a whole complete functional virus is in an rna vaccine?  So from my understanding the new vaccines just contain the "spike protein" only of a functional "live" virus which is enough to train our adaptive immune systems to recognise it.  Looking at computer generated images from Electron Microscopy it looks a pretty small piece of the functional virus.  My idea for a 1 line argument is "I'd prefer to be infected with x% of a virus than the whole active, cell conquering beast..."

2: Most sane people think that the Polio vaccine is pretty sweet.  What portion of animal cell is left in the vaccine and injected into you?  Best I can find is "some traces may remain", of Monkey liver or cow cell.  lol.  I haven't come across any explanation of how to separate virus from culture after you grow your mutated virus and how successful that is.

I am polio vaccinated though and have urges to scratch my armpits so who knows, maybe I got more monkey than most?

 

Folks who’d rather get the nasty virus vs a day of side effects of a vaccine? At this point, dumbasses    gotta dumbass.

[The Dark Knight 1,251]

41 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

Folks who’d rather get the nasty virus vs a day of side effects of a vaccine? At this point, dumbasses    gotta dumbass.

Thanks for your low-IQ answer...

Anyone with half a brain would question if there will be long term side affects from the vaccines as they are all two new for anyone to be 100/% certain. Then you need to assess the risk of not being vaccinated.

 

I felt more comfortable with Astra Zenica because it used a "tried and tested" approach to creating the vaccine and therefore have more faith that there will be no log term side-affects. I considered that various leaders unfairly demonised AZ and it should have been heavily promoted to all but the highest blood clot risk groups. 

Given that you have to sign an indemnity form when getting vaccinated, people should be asking questions before making an informed choice, rather than blindly following their leaders.

 

 

 

 

 

[Ease the sheet. 2,285]

2 hours ago, The Dark Knight said:

Thanks for your low-IQ answer...

Anyone with half a brain would question if there will be long term side affects from the vaccines as they are all two new for anyone to be 100/% certain. Then you need to assess the risk of not being vaccinated.

 

I felt more comfortable with Astra Zenica because it used a "tried and tested" approach to creating the vaccine and therefore have more faith that there will be no log term side-affects. I considered that various leaders unfairly demonised AZ and it should have been heavily promoted to all but the highest blood clot risk groups. 

Given that you have to sign an indemnity form when getting vaccinated, people should be asking questions before making an informed choice, rather than blindly following their leaders.

 

 

 

 

 

you obviously don't understand what the vaccines are made of and how the vaccines work.

 

[The Dark Knight 1,251]

26 minutes ago, Ease the sheet. said:

you obviously don't understand what the vaccines are made of and how the vaccines work.

 

and you just don't understand shit...

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2 hours ago, The Dark Knight said:

and you just don't understand shit...

So you don't understand that AZ, Pfizer and Moderna all work by infecting our cells with spike protein genetic material?

Causing our cells to make the spike protein?

All the vaccines are equally tried and tested, dumbass.

[The Dark Knight 1,251]

9 minutes ago, Ease the sheet. said:

All the vaccines are equally tried and tested, dumbass.

Clueless fuck

[TheDragon 905]

Are you on a charm offensive, DK?

[sparau 87]

2 hours ago, Ease the sheet. said:

...by infecting our cells with spike protein genetic material?

Causing our cells to make the spike protein?

This isn't my area at all but would it sound more harmless and indeed more accurate to say

'by exposing our adaptive immune system to the spike protein of covid'?

'Causing our t cells to identify it more readily as an invader'. ?

Correct me if i'm wrong any budding or full blown immunologists : )

[Ease the sheet. 2,285]

2 hours ago, The Dark Knight said:

Clueless fuck

So you really have no idea?

[Ease the sheet. 2,285]

16 minutes ago, sparau said:

This isn't my area at all but would it sound more harmless and indeed more accurate to say

'by exposing our adaptive immune system to the spike protein of covid'?

'Causing our t cells to identify it more readily as an invader'. ?

Correct me if i'm wrong any budding or full blown immunologists : )

That's the end result.

The vaccine is a way to introduce the spike protein into our body.

 

 

[BeSafe 1,543]

I've actually had some luck by pointing out the obvious -  You don't have a choice anymore.  You're either going to get the vaccine or you're going to get the virus.  At least with the vaccine, you get to pick when.  You don't get to 'not play' anymore.   That choice ended a long time ago.

You can be mad about how we got here, but we're here.

Follow up with answering specific questions.  That worked twice.  So that's good.

 

 

[slug zitski 576]

Cardiac deaths athletes

 

https://stephenc.substack.com/p/5-fold-increase-in-sudden-cardiac

 

[danstanford 130]

Based on a microscopic sample, I had 4 friends have heart attacks last spring and I cannot remember any heart attacks among friends/connections going back more than 10 years. It did give me pause but did not stop me getting my second vaccination. 

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23 minutes ago, danstanford said:

Based on a microscopic sample, I had 4 friends have heart attacks last spring and I cannot remember any heart attacks among friends/connections going back more than 10 years. It did give me pause but did not stop me getting my second vaccination. 

Have you had a heart attack?

 

[ShortForBob 2,961]

44 minutes ago, danstanford said:

Based on a microscopic sample, I had 4 friends have heart attacks last spring and I cannot remember any heart attacks among friends/connections going back more than 10 years. It did give me pause but did not stop me getting my second vaccination. 

And I know 3 women diagnosed with breast cancer in the last 12 months. I cant think of any women I know being diagnose with breast cancer going back ten years.

Must be Vaccine related.

[slug zitski 576]

1 hour ago, danstanford said:

Based on a microscopic sample, I had 4 friends have heart attacks last spring and I cannot remember any heart attacks among friends/connections going back more than 10 years. It did give me pause but did not stop me getting my second vaccination. 

It would be wise to disregard guidance from “public health authorities” and ask your doctor for advice 

[Gangbusters 279]

If that was a hockey game they would just shock him and he would be ready for his next shift.

[Raz'r 5,200]

2 hours ago, sparau said:

This isn't my area at all but would it sound more harmless and indeed more accurate to say

'by exposing our adaptive immune system to the spike protein of covid'?

'Causing our t cells to identify it more readily as an invader'. ?

Correct me if i'm wrong any budding or full blown immunologists : )

The mRNA vaccine actually causes some of your cells to generate the spike protein. Your immune system then trains to recognize it. There’s only a small amount of the vaccine at one time so a limited amount of the protein is generated. The vaccine doesn’t replicate, so once a cell has produced a batch of the protein it goes back to doing what it does or dies.

[Raz'r 5,200]

2 hours ago, slug zitski said:

Cardiac deaths athletes

 

https://stephenc.substack.com/p/5-fold-increase-in-sudden-cardiac

 

If true, and I always suspect your sources, but probably long-Covid. 

[Raz'r 5,200]

40 minutes ago, slug zitski said:

It would be wise to disregard guidance from “public health authorities” and ask your doctor for advice 

Yep,

• Overall, we rate Summit News Questionable based on Extreme Right-wing bias, promotion of conspiracies, misleading and unproven stories, and a complete lack of transparency.

[danstanford 130]

So what I don't get is the inability of anyone from either side to step off the dogma that justifies the decision they have made. There is lots of conflicting data and likely there will continue to be so. It will take time to really understand the long term implications of both Covid19 and the vaccines and until then most of us have made a decision for ourselves but damn it all, can't you still be curious? 

[slug zitski 576]

Just now, danstanford said:

So what I don't get is the inability of anyone from either side to step off the dogma that justifies the decision they have made. There is lots of conflicting data and likely there will continue to be so. It will take time to really understand the long term implications of both Covid19 and the vaccines and until then most of us have made a decision for ourselves but damn it all, can't you still be curious? 

Vacinating children is madness 

adults make their own desicions 

[d'ranger 4,345]

[solosailor 619]

Quote

and you just don't understand shit...

Such a low-IQ response.

[NeedAClew 1,786]

2 hours ago, ShortForBob said:

And I know 3 women diagnosed with breast cancer in the last 12 months. I cant think of any women I know being diagnose with breast cancer going back ten years.

Must be Vaccine related.

All the people in my Radiation Oncology waiting areas were vaccinated.  Clear proof.   

Also 10 years ago my hair was not so gray.  I got vaccinated and it is gray. Clear proof.

10 years ago, the great philanthropist LE had the Americas Cup in his bedroom.  Then I got vaccinated and now GD has it somewhere.  Clear proof.

 

[accnick 1,745]

1 hour ago, NeedAClew said:

All the people in my Radiation Oncology waiting areas were vaccinated.  Clear proof.   

Also 10 years ago my hair was not so gray.  I got vaccinated and it is gray. Clear proof.

10 years ago, the great philanthropist LE had the Americas Cup in his bedroom.  Then I got vaccinated and now GD has it somewhere.  Clear proof.

 

Some people (not you, I might add) have difficulty differentiating between these two:

Correlation Vs Causation - GeeksforGeeks

[Go Left 203]

5 hours ago, slug zitski said:

It would be wise to disregard guidance from “public health authorities” and ask your doctor for advice 

It's a futbol player fer gawd's sake.  They collapse if they step on a wet blade of grass wrong.   

[Go Left 203]

4 hours ago, slug zitski said:

Vacinating children is madness 

adults make their own desicions 

Glad you weren't in charge of public health during the polio epidemic. 

Very glad, troll.

[sparau 87]

6 hours ago, Raz'r said:

The mRNA vaccine actually causes some of your cells to generate the spike protein. Your immune system then trains to recognize it. There’s only a small amount of the vaccine at one time so a limited amount of the protein is generated. The vaccine doesn’t replicate, so once a cell has produced a batch of the protein it goes back to doing what it does or dies.

Thanks Razr - yes that makes sense.

Still the original concept I thought I'd try and make sound friendlier was:

Quote

...by infecting our cells with spike protein genetic material?

Causing our cells to make the spike protein?

When trying to defuse people's fears I think it's worthwhile to be careful with words.

A protein has no genetic material, and sure, while due to EpiGenetics (animal's response to environment) it will cause a change in our genome that change will be our bodies' immune response not some alien DNA being added.

The only "infecting with genetic material" that could occur would be with the complete functional virus, not the spike protein.  In fact that is an argument for vaccination rather than catching the functional complete virus to gain adaptive immunity.

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10 hours ago, slug zitski said:

Cardiac deaths athletes

 

https://stephenc.substack.com/p/5-fold-increase-in-sudden-cardiac

 

What about other sports?

We just had the Olympics, how many died there?

[Ease the sheet. 2,285]

8 hours ago, Gangbusters said:

If that was a hockey game they would just shock him and he would be ready for his next shift.

How many hockey players have died from heart attacks this year? Other sport players?

8 hours ago, Raz'r said:

If true, and I always suspect your sources, but probably long-Covid. 

It's not true.

Plenty of fact checkers have called bullshit.

[Clove Hitch 1,490]

19 hours ago, sparau said:

 

2: Most sane people think that the Polio vaccine is pretty sweet.  

 

The polio vaccine used Thimerosal as a preservative (Mercury).    It is no longer used and the amount of Mercury in all the vaccines a kid would get back in the day was something like the same, or less, than a tuna sammich.   

But antivaxxers have latched on to Thimerosal and many believe that Mercury is still used in vaccines.   It isn't.  

But it's amazing to think that if people back then had today's internet with it's spread of misinformation about vaccines, it's safe to say we'd still have Polio today.   Ironic that the internet has ushered in a new Dark Age of information when it could have done the opposite.  Just look at the increase of people who believe the Earth is flat and vaccines contain nanobots. 

[slug zitski 576]

Just now, Ease the sheet. said:

What about other sports?

We just had the Olympics, how many died there?

Yes 

 

An increase in  cardiac events has  been observed in all athletes  

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1 minute ago, slug zitski said:

Yes 

 

An increase in  cardiac events has  been observed in all athletes  

So how many died at the recent Olympics?

For comparison, how many died at the previous Olympics?

Maybe compare that to historic Olympics, like 1972.

[slug zitski 576]

2 minutes ago, Clove Hitch said:

The polio vaccine used Thimerosal as a preservative (Mercury).    It is no longer used and the amount of Mercury in all the vaccines a kid would get back in the day was something like the same, or less, than a tuna sammich.   

But antivaxxers have latched on to Thimerosal and many believe that Mercury is still used in vaccines.   It isn't.  

But it's amazing to think that if people back then had today's internet with it's spread of misinformation about vaccines, it's safe to say we'd still have Polio today.   Ironic that the internet has ushered in a new Dark Age of information when it could have done the opposite.  Just look at the increase of people who believe the Earth is flat and vaccines contain nanobots. 

The case fatality ratio for paralytic polio is generally 2% to 5% among children and up to 15% to 30% among adolescents and adults. It increases to 25% to 75% with bulbar involvement.
 

 

[Clove Hitch 1,490]

7 hours ago, slug zitski said:

Vacinating children is madness 

 

You're a fucking idiot.  You don't want kids vaccinated against chicken pox, mumps and all the other horrible shit that could kill them?  Do you know how small the airway is on an infant and how quick mumps can close it?  Fucking hell, it's crazy that @Editor lets you post your deadly shit here. 

[slug zitski 576]

The case fatality rate for children from Covid is close to zero

[Clove Hitch 1,490]

1 minute ago, slug zitski said:

The case fatality ratio for paralytic polio is generally 2% to 5% among children and up to 15% to 30% among adolescents and adults. It increases to 25% to 75% with bulbar involvement.
 

 

What about non-fatal life long complications?

[NeedAClew 1,786]

Why even treat children with medicines of any sort?  Those all have side effects and the kids can't give informed consent. Better to rely on natural hardiness. Will be good for the gene pool, too. [Sarcasm font]

Also, if we stopped trying to persuade the vaccine scared and freedumbs to get vaxxed and instead started the appearance of restricting access to vaccines, maybe they would demand their rights to have theirs. [ sarcasm but probably some would]

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13 minutes ago, NeedAClew said:

Why even treat children with medicines of any sort?  Those all have side effects and the kids can't give informed consent. Better to rely on natural hardiness. Will be good for the gene pool, too. [Sarcasm font]

Also, if we stopped trying to persuade the vaccine scared and freedumbs to get vaxxed and instead started the appearance of restricting access to vaccines, maybe they would demand their rights to have theirs. [ sarcasm but probably some would]

Give vaccines to Africa.

That will fire up the entitled whiteys.

[TheDragon 905]

Sadly places like South Africa have lots of vaccine, much like the US and EU, but due to all the crap misinformation spewed online, like some posters here, most have chosen not to get vaccinated and here we go with another variant that will cause yet another major wave there and in neighboring states and eventually the whole world and lead to probably millions more dying unnecessarily, unless we are very lucky and Omicron does not cause as serious disease. US alone still has over 1000 deaths per day due to Delta infection in unvaccinated covidiots.

[sparau 87]

They named the new variant well, it is sure to get through to the general populace.

[Steam Flyer 8,437]

4 hours ago, slug zitski said:

The case fatality ratio for paralytic polio is generally 2% to 5% among children and up to 15% to 30% among adolescents and adults. It increases to 25% to 75% with bulbar involvement.
 

So, you're saying a little polio isn't that bad?

 

  

4 hours ago, slug zitski said:

The case fatality rate for children from Covid is close to zero

And they're all going to die anyway sooner or later

- DSK

[Rain Man 1,982]

3 hours ago, TheDragon said:

Sadly places like South Africa have lots of vaccine, much like the US and EU, but due to all the crap misinformation spewed online, like some posters here, most have chosen not to get vaccinated and here we go with another variant that will cause yet another major wave there and in neighboring states and eventually the whole world and lead to probably millions more dying unnecessarily, unless we are very lucky and Omicron does not cause as serious disease. US alone still has over 1000 deaths per day due to Delta infection in unvaccinated covidiots.

Darwin always wins in the end.  It turns out that the genetic trait that predisposes people to believing bullshit they read on-line may be significantly reduced in the gene pool shortly.

[phill_nz 872]

i find it best to frighten them with facts

just tell them that in 20 years there will be no children left that are today's children

[Raz'r 5,200]

5 hours ago, slug zitski said:

The case fatality rate for children from Covid is close to zero

yet they can still act as a host that could generate the next killer variant.

[Raz'r 5,200]

5 hours ago, Clove Hitch said:

What about non-fatal life long complications?

My friends son is in the grips of covid-depression - losing him his first year of college. Sluggo doesn't think that's a big deal.

[dogwatch 1,318]

One approach to encourage the hesitant.

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-vienna-brothel-offers-customers-30-minutes-with-lady-of-their-choice-in-exchange-for-coronavirus-jab-12464616

[LB 15 6,529]

On 11/26/2021 at 11:05 PM, slug zitski said:

Cardiac deaths athletes

 

https://stephenc.substack.com/p/5-fold-increase-in-sudden-cardiac

 

'So what is causing this sudden epidemic'?

Who knows? Obviously there were more moron around than at first thought. Couple this with some bullshit on facebook and some ludicrous vids on youtube and bang! The global stupidity pandemic began. But unlike covid 19, there is no vaccine and never will be. Studies have shown that the most at risk are the disenfranchised, those without many teeth and mouth breathers. Symptoms include leaving caps lock on always and re-posting childish, humorless memes.

[LB 15 6,529]

On 11/27/2021 at 2:36 AM, d'ranger said:

Oh I am stealing that! I have been trolling hard on a anti-vaxer FB page and i will use that.

The second my current time out from facebook ends.

[LB 15 6,529]

On 11/26/2021 at 11:31 PM, danstanford said:

Based on a microscopic sample, I had 4 friends have heart attacks last spring and I cannot remember any heart attacks among friends/connections going back more than 10 years. It did give me pause but did not stop me getting my second vaccination. 

Indeed. At our local yacht club there have been reports of swollen heads and enormous swinging dicks.

[LB 15 6,529]

On 11/27/2021 at 2:28 PM, Raz'r said:

My friends son is in the grips of covid-depression - losing him his first year of college. Sluggo doesn't think that's a big deal.

How could he? He has neither sons or friends.

Best wishes for your lad's mate.

[d'ranger 4,345]

40 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

Oh I am stealing that! I have been trolling hard on a anti-vaxer FB page and i will use that.

The second my current time out from facebook ends.

Since I swiped it from the Meme thread in GA, you're welcome to it. 

[Go Left 203]

On 11/26/2021 at 5:31 AM, danstanford said:

Based on a microscopic sample, I had 4 friends have heart attacks last spring and I cannot remember any heart attacks among friends/connections going back more than 10 years. It did give me pause but did not stop me getting my second vaccination. 

Ever notice a Ridgeline on the road, then start to notice how many other Ridgelines are out there?  

[rockb 30]

Every commercial that begins with "You may be entitled to financial compensation" refers to something the FDA approved.

[phillysailor 3,437]

On 11/25/2021 at 10:50 PM, sparau said:

What percentage of a whole complete functional virus is in an rna vaccine?  So from my understanding the new vaccines just contain the "spike protein" only of a functional "live" virus which is enough to train our adaptive immune systems to recognise it.  Looking at computer generated images from Electron Microscopy it looks a pretty small piece of the functional virus.  My idea for a 1 line argument is "I'd prefer to be infected with x% of a virus than the whole active, cell conquering beast..."

2: Most sane people think that the Polio vaccine is pretty sweet.  What portion of animal cell is left in the vaccine and injected into you? 

The mRNA vaccines have essentially no fraction of the COVID-19 virus, and no portion of animal cell. 

The J&J vaccine uses a “viral vector”, a harmless cold -type virus which cannot self-replicate, to carry a package of a DNA fragment which encodes part of the spike protein found on COVID-19. It is is grown and concentrated using embryonic retinal tissue many cell lines (hundreds?) removed from source tissue.

Sputnik and Astra Zeneca vaccines use a similar approach but use different growth media.

Viral vectors alter your own DNA as much as any insignificant cold might, one you never even noticed having.

In other words, they don’t.

mRNA vaccines are even less related to the target virus. In this case a synthetic nucleic acid (not DNA, but single strand messenger RNA) which practically falls apart once made, and so needs special super cold storage and special handling, is injected and cannot survive long inside any cell. It cannot reach the cell’s nucleus, where our DNA is stored, because it is degraded within the cytosol… the open area of the cell where organelles like ribosomes are found.

Ribosomes read mRNA and manufacture proteins based on the information encoded on the mRNA strand. In the case of the Pfizer and Moderna, this is a synthetic mRNA which causes the cell to produce spike proteins. Because this process essentially only happens in immunological cells because they are the only ones with affinity to the package, both cellular and humoral immunity is produced with almost no other cells being involved

These vaccines are, frankly, amazing. They can be synthesized in a few days, produced in mass quantities and show incredible efficacy. 

Truly, we are witnessing wonders of modern medical science. 

[slug zitski 576]

On 11/25/2021 at 10:50 PM, sparau said:

Heya, just wondering if anyone has some better google fu than me or science knowledge and wants to share the answers to 2 questions I thought might help those concerned with the new rna vaccines.  I am asking this due to some pro-vaxxers not wanting to get the new COVID vaccines due to timeframes of production.

It seems once you accept it is a different method than the previous trial and test of "get animal cells, expose to virus, after animal adaptive immunity and virus have at it... see if mutation is good" approach the timeframe from invention to release seems better to me.

1: What percentage of a whole complete functional virus is in an rna vaccine?  So from my understanding the new vaccines just contain the "spike protein" only of a functional "live" virus which is enough to train our adaptive immune systems to recognise it.  Looking at computer generated images from Electron Microscopy it looks a pretty small piece of the functional virus.  My idea for a 1 line argument is "I'd prefer to be infected with x% of a virus than the whole active, cell conquering beast..."

2: Most sane people think that the Polio vaccine is pretty sweet.  What portion of animal cell is left in the vaccine and injected into you?  Best I can find is "some traces may remain", of Monkey liver or cow cell.  lol.  I haven't come across any explanation of how to separate virus from culture after you grow your mutated virus and how successful that is.

I am polio vaccinated though and have urges to scratch my armpits so who knows, maybe I got more monkey than most?

 

Polio kills 2 to 30 percent of those infected .. very dangerous 

Covid kills a fraction of that 

 

by the way polio is a gut disease , not a respiratory disease 

Polio was eradicated thru  public works, sanitation 

Your  town no longer has open sewers 

[slug zitski 576]

From the American heart  association 

https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/circ.144.suppl_1.10712

 

 

[accnick 1,745]

3 minutes ago, slug zitski said:

From the American heart  association 

https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/circ.144.suppl_1.10712

 

 

Dr. Gundry spends most of his time these days flogging expensive supplements intended to reduce various types of inflammatory response.

This from Wikipedia:

" Gundry writes articles for Gwyneth Paltrow's Goop website which has been criticized for promoting quackery.^[25"

 

"Criticism[edit]

T. Colin Campbell, a biochemist and advocate for plant-based diets, states that The Plant Paradox contains numerous unsupported claims and denies that it makes a "convincing argument that lectins as a class are hazardous."^[8] Robert H. Eckel, an endocrinologist and past president of the American Heart Association, argues that Gundry's diet advice contradicts "every dietary recommendation represented by the American Cancer Society, American Heart Association, American Diabetes Association and so on" and that it is not possible to draw any conclusions from Gundry's own research due to the absence of control patients in his studies. Writing in New Scientist, food writer and chef Anthony Warner notes that Gundry's theories "are not supported by mainstream nutritional science" and that evidence of the benefits of high-lectin containing diets "is so overwhelming as to render Gundry’s arguments laughable".^[26]

Gundry sells supplements that he claims protect against the damaging effect of lectins.^{[10][8][26][7]} Although Today's Dietician acknowledges evidence that consuming lectins in some raw foods like kidney beans can be harmful, it concludes that "preliminary studies have revealed potential health benefits of lectin consumption and minute evidence of harm."^[4]"

[slug zitski 576]

[Raz'r 5,200]

35 minutes ago, slug zitski said:

From the American heart  association 

https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/circ.144.suppl_1.10712

 

 

And what would these indicators look like after an infection?

[Gangbusters 279]

Thank heaven we have Sluggo to keep us so informed!

[Steam Flyer 8,437]

4 hours ago, slug zitski said:

Polio kills 2 to 30 percent of those infected .. very dangerous 

Covid kills a fraction of that 

 

by the way polio is a gut disease , not a respiratory disease 

Polio was eradicated thru  public works, sanitation 

Your  town no longer has open sewers 

Rather few US towns had open sewers in the 1940s and early 1950s when there was a polio epidemic.

Polio is not a "gut disease." How can a "gut disease" cause crippled legs?

There is so much wrong with you.

- DSK

[NeedAClew 1,786]

It is transmitted by fecal matter contact, in pools, at beaches, etc. Guess you never had to stay out of pools and couldn't go to the beach during polio summers, huh?  

[phillysailor 3,437]

What does a medical clinician say when reading an article that states in bold letters that a life-saving and economy-improving vaccine increases markers associated with inflammation that correlate with acute coronary syndrome?

Hmm. Looks like Dr Gundry wants to get published income RWNJ and maybe get some speaking gigs, perhaps even a cushy "public health" officer type honorific from some southern Gov.

I certainly do not see science.

First off, its not an article, and its not peer-reviewed. It's a poster with some terrible data presented with error margins overlapping... its not clear that these inflammatory markers are significantly different. The PLUS method of "predicting" ACS only is 60% predictive in the first place, so this data is further suspect.... wait, no data was referenced or provided.

Nah, not gonna delve into this further. There's nothing like "prevents hospitalization and death" in the "results" section to get my attention. 

Telling folks, "but your inflammatory markers which kinda correlate with maybe having a slight increase in risk of heart problems in the next five years!" is weak sauce.

[SunFroggy 9]

Further thought needed on what I wrote here.

Edited December 3, 2021 by SunFroggy

[slug zitski 576]

9 hours ago, NeedAClew said:

It is transmitted by fecal matter contact, in pools, at beaches, etc. Guess you never had to stay out of pools and couldn't go to the beach during polio summers, huh?  

Vaccinating children and stunting  their immune system will  be a replay of the history of polio 

“Before the twentieth century, poor hygiene and sanitation meant that almost all children were exposed to poliovirus during infancy, which enabled natural immunity to build up in populations. The industrial revolution brought great sanitary improvements, including the separation of sewage from drinking water. While this proved vital in increasing public health standards in general, it  had disastrous effects in relation to polio cases. It reduced childhood exposure to the virus and lowered immunity levels in communities, creating the perfect setting for epidemics to ignite [3].”

[Steam Flyer 8,437]

3 hours ago, slug zitski said:

Vaccinating children and stunting  their immune system will  be a replay of the history of polio 

“Before the twentieth century, poor hygiene and sanitation meant that almost all children were exposed to poliovirus during infancy, which enabled natural immunity to build up in populations. The industrial revolution brought great sanitary improvements, including the separation of sewage from drinking water. While this proved vital in increasing public health standards in general, it  had disastrous effects in relation to polio cases. It reduced childhood exposure to the virus and lowered immunity levels in communities, creating the perfect setting for epidemics to ignite [3].”

Carrying this logic to the next step, let's just kill people who get sick.

Sure, it will really suck for the next couple of thousand years and it will be difficult to sustain civilization. But going beck to squatting naked in the bushes, eating grubs and berries, is a small price to pay for improving the human genome!

- DSK

[NeedAClew 1,786]

Do the RWNJ US politicians realize they are losing 1,000 voters a day? 

[danstanford 130]

52 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Carrying this logic to the next step, let's just kill people who get sick.

Sure, it will really suck for the next couple of thousand years and it will be difficult to sustain civilization. But going beck to squatting naked in the bushes, eating grubs and berries, is a small price to pay for improving the human genome!

- DSK

Would you please elaborate DSK? I am not sure what logic path led you to make this statement and am curious. 

[Steam Flyer 8,437]

Just now, danstanford said:

Would you please elaborate DSK? I am not sure what logic path led you to make this statement and am curious. 

Sluggo said we should go back to open sewers etc etc and increasing exposure to disease, under the mistaken apprehension that somehow using vaccines to fight disease produced generations of children with "stunted" immune systems.

The ironic thing is, that I would be willing to bet his political stance leads him to be strongly against "evolution" also.

- DSK