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Design your own Hydrogen Support Vessel


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this is a lot more wishy washy than had been reported.

 

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is considering.....

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160kW = 217 horsepower, i'm guessing  beyond the powerplant the top speed or the range are probably the hardest to achieve.

 

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g) is rather generous, but i suppose one needs to know who the auditor is.

 

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since NZ$ 2m = 1.3m USD,

Who wants to retrofit something and not send money to new zealand? the build costs is obviously dependant on scaling up selling 4-8 of them. imagine if no one buys one?

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5 hours ago, shebeen said:

this is a lot more wishy washy than had been reported.

 

image.png.f04a654300c55330801cd8412948b489.png

is considering.....

image.png.055e90a58dd2822426db6ece852c129d.png

160kW = 217 horsepower, i'm guessing  beyond the powerplant the top speed or the range are probably the hardest to achieve.

 

image.png.2ea04e963566c7df2d03ae7e54464332.png

g) is rather generous, but i suppose one needs to know who the auditor is.

 

image.png.ea7b340cb8488772c5b894a6c969cbcd.png

 

since NZ$ 2m = 1.3m USD,

Who wants to retrofit something and not send money to new zealand? the build costs is obviously dependant on scaling up selling 4-8 of them. imagine if no one buys one?

image.png

I work for a past sponsor of ETNZ. We’ve already toyed with a hydrogen engine. Scrapped it because it just wasn’t that great. It’s just greenwashing. 

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13 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

Presumably there will be a good supply of hydrogen at the Match venue but I wonder if supply will be an issue at teams' home bases?

Only have to use them at the events but you are also allowed to use 3 non-hydrogen powered boats.  Therefore all the teams will have their normal 3 chaseboats out there working and two HSV's sitting there doing nothing besides maybe hospitality. 

I believe the ACE boats on the course are also suppose to be HSV.  That's a lot of HSV's to build in a short amount of time.

Luckily the key-word in the protocol is "considering"

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21 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

Presumably there will be a good supply of hydrogen at the Match venue but I wonder if supply will be an issue at teams' home bases?

I don’t see why it would matter. Those adorable little boats will only get paraded around when then cameras are on. 

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2 hours ago, Chobani Sailor said:

Only have to use them at the events but you are also allowed to use 3 non-hydrogen powered boats.  Therefore all the teams will have their normal 3 chaseboats out there working and two HSV's sitting there doing nothing besides maybe hospitality. 

I believe the ACE boats on the course are also suppose to be HSV.  That's a lot of HSV's to build in a short amount of time.

Luckily the key-word in the protocol is "considering"

Artemis Technologies (Ian Percy and co) have some nice clean-energy boats in the works but (I imagine for good reason) they aren't hydro; could be a range thing.

The new site in Cork that OSG is trying to sell is 14 miles from the proposed race course, I wonder if the HSVs would be based closer to the course if that happens?

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6 hours ago, pusslicker said:

Can never quite say it can you? Always have to shift the blame a bit.

What, so you don't think they're both culpable?

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5 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

Presumably there will be a good supply of hydrogen at the Match venue but I wonder if supply will be an issue at teams' home bases?

Yes. And at heavily tax-payer subsidised prices, no doubt.

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2 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

Artemis Technologies (Ian Percy and co) have some nice clean-energy boats in the works but (I imagine for good reason) they aren't hydro; could be a range thing.

The new site in Cork that OSG is trying to sell is 14 miles from the proposed race course, I wonder if the HSVs would be based closer to the course if that happens?

It’s actually pretty simple. I work for the biggest boat engine company out there. If we build high performance gasoline engines, customers shovel money in our direction. Hydrogen powered, not so much. ETNZ is going to have to rely on some random startup company, because anyone in the industry isn’t going to waste the resources to sell a tiny amount of engines. 

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ETNZ are using a small startup called Toyota and using their automotive fuel cells in their boat  We've been working with a company to potentially build this out of HDPE with fuels cells.  The main sticking point with commercial boats is there are no clear rules.  DNV have put out some advisories which everyone else is trying to cherry pick the details they like from.

Range isn't actually an issue.  Energy density is better than Petrol / Diesel so you can even trade off some tank weight against plant and safety equipment.

There are also a couple of companies doing containerized hydrogen production plants.  Solar panels on the roof of the team base containerized production and you could be close to Net Zero.

forward quarter 2.jpg

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^ Thanks, interesting.

One article I saw linked to a Hydrogen-producing project that is to based out in the ocean off the north coast of Ireland. The timeframe was around 3 years from now, so maybe not linked to Ireland/AC Corkers but hydro is apparently 'a thing.'

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17 minutes ago, SCARECROW said:

ETNZ are using a small startup called Toyota and using their automotive fuel cells in their boat  We've been working with a company to potentially build this out of HDPE with fuels cells.  The main sticking point with commercial boats is there are no clear rules.  DNV have put out some advisories which everyone else is trying to cherry pick the details they like from.

Range isn't actually an issue.  Energy density is better than Petrol / Diesel so you can even trade off some tank weight against plant and safety equipment.

There are also a couple of companies doing containerized hydrogen production plants.  Solar panels on the roof of the team base containerized production and you could be close to Net Zero.

forward quarter 2.jpg

I figured Toyota would be involved. And sticking with my previous statement, they’re a tiny start up in the industry. 

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14 hours ago, shebeen said:

 

160kW = 217 horsepower, i'm guessing  beyond the powerplant the top speed or the range are probably the hardest to achieve.

 

 

Thats the size of the fuel cell (hydrogen powered generator/battery not the motors.  So you basically need a boat that will do 25 knots on 200HP and then batteries to bridge the (large) gap to 50 knots.

the spec is too prescriptive which makes it clear they're trying to force people to buy their boats.  If you were series about development you say:

1. Boat must have a fully loaded top speed in excess of 50 knots

2. Boat must have a fully loaded range in excess of 75nm at speeds greater than 25 knots when powered via fuel cell alone

3. Boat must be over 10m

4. Boat must have a minimum operating capacity of 6 crew at 80kg each plus 250kg equipment. 

You'd then get third party companies (like mine) actively pursuing the teams to design and build boats for them.

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On 11/27/2021 at 5:46 AM, SCARECROW said:

Thats the size of the fuel cell (hydrogen powered generator/battery not the motors.  So you basically need a boat that will do 25 knots on 200HP and then batteries to bridge the (large) gap to 50 knots.

the spec is too prescriptive which makes it clear they're trying to force people to buy their boats.  If you were series about development you say:

1. Boat must have a fully loaded top speed in excess of 50 knots

2. Boat must have a fully loaded range in excess of 75nm at speeds greater than 25 knots when powered via fuel cell alone

3. Boat must be over 10m

4. Boat must have a minimum operating capacity of 6 crew at 80kg each plus 250kg equipment. 

You'd then get third party companies (like mine) actively pursuing the teams to design and build boats for them.

If that's the size of the fuel cell then shouldn't it be the capacity? So 160 kWh?

Did they make a typo?

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On 11/27/2021 at 8:29 AM, Monkey said:

I work for a past sponsor of ETNZ. We’ve already toyed with a hydrogen engine. Scrapped it because it just wasn’t that great. It’s just greenwashing. 

 

On 11/27/2021 at 2:28 PM, Monkey said:

It’s actually pretty simple. I work for the biggest boat engine company out there. If

Busy fella...same company or just a virtuoso

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4 hours ago, SCARECROW said:

No fuel cells are rated by their output.  You have a separate hydrogen tank.

fuel cell.jpg

So is foiling not an energy game changer? Once you get out, friction basically disappears? So the weight saving you mentioned is crucial to popping up?

I hope prospects improve for companies like yours to break ground, sounds a bit Shit ATM.

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5 hours ago, Horn Rock said:

Brunswick Corp - Merc engines and a zillion other marine entities.

Yep. In addition to all the boat stuff, we also share tech with all kinds of other manufacturers. (Cars, trucks, tractors, construction equipment, military shit, motorcycles, etc.) We’ve almost got our own little midwestern mafia. Lol!  We help each other out against the foreign companies to keep jobs local. 

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On 11/27/2021 at 2:28 PM, Monkey said:

It’s actually pretty simple. I work for the biggest boat engine company out there. If we build high performance gasoline engines, customers shovel money in our direction. Hydrogen powered, not so much. ETNZ is going to have to rely on some random startup company, because anyone in the industry isn’t going to waste the resources to sell a tiny amount of engines. 

I think we are all aware what ETNZ are proposing is bleeding edge stuff, that won't sell to the masses. That's not the point of it.

But just to be clear, your rationale for sticking with ICE is the equivalent of "the biggest car engine company out there" turning their nose up at Tesla over a decade ago.

Appreciate your company is grapping with the Innovators dilemma, but that doesn't mean others won't disrupt the market.

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4 hours ago, rh3000 said:

I think we are all aware what ETNZ are proposing is bleeding edge stuff, that won't sell to the masses. That's not the point of it.

But just to be clear, your rationale for sticking with ICE is the equivalent of "the biggest car engine company out there" turning their nose up at Tesla over a decade ago.

Appreciate your company is grapping with the Innovators dilemma, but that doesn't mean others won't disrupt the market.

Nope. Grant just wants something that’ll let him stamp “green” on his marketing. It’s quite literally a boat load of bullshit and everyone knows it. 

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25 minutes ago, Monkey said:

Nope. Grant just wants something that’ll let him stamp “green” on his marketing. It’s quite literally a boat load of bullshit and everyone knows it. 

Sorry what part of my statement are you disagreeing with?

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36 minutes ago, rh3000 said:

Sorry what part of my statement are you disagreeing with?

The bleeding edge nonsense. That’s just marketing garbage. Hydrogen engines are a dime a dozen. They never caught on because the fuel is a pain in the ass. 

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26 minutes ago, Monkey said:

They never caught on because the fuel is a pain in the ass. 

And if we told the original ICE inventors how much pain we'd go through to extract the juices of fossilised dinosaurs from under deserts on the other side of the planet they'd have given up too.

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On 11/27/2021 at 8:29 AM, Monkey said:

I work for a past sponsor of ETNZ. We’ve already toyed with a hydrogen engine. Scrapped it because it just wasn’t that great. It’s just greenwashing. 

 

9 hours ago, Monkey said:

The bleeding edge nonsense. That’s just marketing garbage. Hydrogen engines are a dime a dozen. They never caught on because the fuel is a pain in the ass. 

Engine not great or fuel a pain...?

I do respect your position as an industry pro...but the Tesla comment somewhere above must hold some water with you, after all musky is now staggeringly rich and overperforming in production.

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1 hour ago, barfy said:

 

Engine not great or fuel a pain...?

I do respect your position as an industry pro...but the Tesla comment somewhere above must hold some water with you, after all musky is now staggeringly rich and overperforming in production.

I’m actually a huge fan of Tesla. I even have a deposit on the truck. 

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