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2 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

I think so too. No one's been able to find a cure for Aids, and no one been able to find a cure for Team NZ's dominance either.

2 wins in 20 years? Hardly dominant when Swiss & USA have the same number

But then you did say that NZ would dominate the sailing at the Olympics too

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1 hour ago, enigmatically2 said:

2 wins in 20 years? Hardly dominant when Swiss & USA have the same number

But then you did say that NZ would dominate the sailing at the Olympics too

But then again neither of those teams are involved anymore. 

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8 minutes ago, Gissie said:

The new teams will be banging on the door. After all it must be easy getting sponsorship when there is no idea of where it will be. :rolleyes:

Why would anyone enter on the first day?

There's nothing to be gained from getting your name on the list. Order an AC40 build slot? you probably don't want the first one or two off the production line either there.

All the protocol info is open domain. start designing in secret if you must.

If anything, it would be smart if Terry, Max and (maybe) Ernesto were on a whatsapp group where they all agree to obfuscate everything in the media. pretend to not be interested at all, and enter 20 minutes before late entry kicks in.

would keep Dalts up at night for sure. 

 

There is also the non-zero chance that no one actually enters at all.

 

 

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Just now, shebeen said:

Why would anyone enter on the first day?

 

 

 

True, they could wait four months for a venue.

Not that it leaves much time to then find money. After all even the best money man in the universe is struggling after almost a year of trying.

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18 minutes ago, Gissie said:

True, they could wait four months for a venue.

Not that it leaves much time to then find money. After all even the best money man in the universe is struggling after almost a year of trying.

Entering right away gives you the #3 slot for an AC40 (after TNZ and Ineos) as well as priority over other challengers for the base location in the "venue".  However, if it is in Auckland, one would assume that Ineos and American Magic would retain their current bases if they are still standing.

I predict Alinghy and LR enter right away on December 1. 

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6 minutes ago, Chobani Sailor said:

Entering right away gives you the #3 slot for an AC40 (after TNZ and Ineos) as well as priority over other challengers for the base location in the "venue".  However, if it is in Auckland, one would assume that Ineos and American Magic would retain their current bases if they are still standing.

I predict Alinghy and LR enter right away on December 1. 

Almost all the development work will be done on the sim, especially for the developed teams. So the 40 is of little use, unless grandstanding rather than winning is what you want. So why not hold off until the last minute.

It keeps the money away from Dalts and makes his con job for a venue a much harder to sell if there is only one confirmed challenger.

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5 minutes ago, Gissie said:

Almost all the development work will be done on the sim, especially for the developed teams. So the 40 is of little use, unless grandstanding rather than winning is what you want. So why not hold off until the last minute.

It keeps the money away from Dalts and makes his con job for a venue a much harder to sell if there is only one confirmed challenger.

Agree 100%, but some people like to be first to get the cherry.  Your first $1M is due 7 days after you enter.  If all the teams just wait until January, Dalts definitely feels the pressure financially and also from with the venue options. 

Ineos is already in the process of building their LEQ12 because there is no major limitations with the testing on it.  AC40 and AC75 have some restrictions on appendages and sails. 

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55 minutes ago, Chobani Sailor said:

Agree 100%, but some people like to be first to get the cherry.  Your first $1M is due 7 days after you enter.  If all the teams just wait until January, Dalts definitely feels the pressure financially and also from with the venue options. 

Ineos is already in the process of building their LEQ12 because there is no major limitations with the testing on it.  AC40 and AC75 have some restrictions on appendages and sails. 

January? I thought last day was May, a couple of months after venue announcement in March. 

So teams could just sit back and put pressure on Dalts during his venue hunting. Hard to sell a two boat regatta as worth 200 million. 

Or parley an early entry for other advantages. 

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10 minutes ago, Gissie said:

January? I thought last day was May, a couple of months after venue announcement in March. 

So teams could just sit back and put pressure on Dalts during his venue hunting. Hard to sell a two boat regatta as worth 200 million. 

Or parley an early entry for other advantages. 

I believe there are some competitor meetings that will kick in at some point - if you aren't entered you would miss out on some important Technical Rule changes, etc.

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1 minute ago, Chobani Sailor said:

I believe there are some competitor meetings that will kick in at some point - if you aren't entered you would miss out on some important Technical Rule changes, etc.

You would only miss out on perhaps being in the discussion, which in all likelihood you would have little input on the outcome. Afterwards they would still need to pass this on to any potential team. 

So the balance would be how much is it worth to keep the defender off balance. In the history of the AC it has always been considered very valuable. 

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2 hours ago, Chobani Sailor said:

I predict Alinghy and LR enter right away on December 1. 

AM too, is my guess.

Does the Prot say anything about if teams get to announce their entry, on their own time, versus (say) ACE? Have seen it done both ways.

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If Alinghì, American Magic and Luna Rossa enter before any venue is announced, can we then all agree after all the back and forth, all the conspiracy theories all the Dalton hating, that either the venue announcement is largely irrelevant, or that contrary to what many have been saying, Team NZ and INEOS have actually been communicating with existing and potential teams?

 

 

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4 hours ago, Forourselves said:

If Alinghì, American Magic and Luna Rossa enter before any venue is announced, can we then all agree after all the back and forth, all the conspiracy theories all the Dalton hating, that either the venue announcement is largely irrelevant, or that contrary to what many have been saying, Team NZ and INEOS have actually been communicating with existing and potential teams?

 

 

or that as the century and half history of the Cup has shown, people enter not because they like the Defender and their plans, but despite of them the allure of winning is worth it.

 

You've changed your story so many times to massage the scenario at the time it would be hard to agree with yourself.

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Can we all agree that if only AM,  Alinghi and LR enter AC37 that GDs claims to have reduced costs to allow more teams to enter are so much hogwash, and that the combination of uncertainty (eg in venue) and cost, have degraded the event compared to Bermuda in terms of number of entries, spectacle, closeness of racing and thus excitement

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5 hours ago, enigmatically2 said:

Can we all agree that if only AM,  Alinghi and LR enter AC37 that GDs claims to have reduced costs to allow more teams to enter are so much hogwash, and that the combination of uncertainty (eg in venue) and cost, have degraded the event compared to Bermuda in terms of number of entries, spectacle, closeness of racing and thus excitement

It's hogwash no matter what.  He just stuck teams with an additional $6M - $2M for the 40 and $4M for his HSVs.   There are not too many people wanting to piss away $100M

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10 hours ago, Forourselves said:

If Alinghì, American Magic and Luna Rossa enter before any venue is announced, can we then all agree after all the back and forth, all the conspiracy theories all the Dalton hating, that either the venue announcement is largely irrelevant, or that contrary to what many have been saying, Team NZ and INEOS have actually been communicating with existing and potential teams?

 

 

They can enter and still hate Dalton.  Everyone hates Ellison too.

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8 hours ago, enigmatically2 said:

Can we all agree that if only AM,  Alinghi and LR enter AC37 that GDs claims to have reduced costs to allow more teams to enter are so much hogwash, and that the combination of uncertainty (eg in venue) and cost, have degraded the event compared to Bermuda in terms of number of entries, spectacle, closeness of racing and thus excitement

No, we can't, because Alinghi entering would mean at least one EXTRA team, so your claims would be incorrect.

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2 hours ago, Chobani Sailor said:

It's hogwash no matter what.  He just stuck teams with an additional $6M - $2M for the 40 and $4M for his HSVs.   There are not too many people wanting to piss away $100M

Teams were forced to buy AC45F's last time too.

Its chump change for the Challenging teams.

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4 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

No, we can't, because Alinghi entering would mean at least one EXTRA team, so your claims would be incorrect.

No dickhead, you can't compare to the abysmally low numbers last time when GD organised that too. Even if Alinghi entered and no-one else dropped out it would stil be FEWER than the last time GD didn't organise it. That's the best he can do after 2 goes?

So the optimistic end of your count is not quite as bad as his last effort, but still worse than the cats you despise(d)

 

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1 minute ago, enigmatically2 said:

No dickhead, you can't compare to the abysmally low numbers last time when GD organised that too. Even if Alinghi entered and no-one else dropped out it would stil be FEWER than the last time GD didn't organise it. That's the best he can do after 2 goes?

So the optimistic end of your count is not quite as bad as his last effort, but still worse than the cats you despise(d)

 

But still far more than 2013.

And lets not forget, Softbank were an Oracle team, so count them out and you have 4 challengers.

 

 

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Just now, Forourselves said:

But still far more than 2013.

And lets not forget, Softbank were an Oracle team, so count them out and you have 4 challengers.

 

 

GD would have a challenger as well if he could afford it. Far more than '13? I'm counting 1 more if all the stars align. 

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17 hours ago, pusslicker said:

Let's be real, we know exactly who will be challenging and we know that they are already talking with the COR/TNZ. The only thing that can happen is that there will be less than the 4 challengers and not more. 

so, you're saying this isn't real?

AC37_Ireland_Bid_24112021.jpg

 

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3 minutes ago, pusslicker said:

GD would have a challenger as well if he could afford it. Far more than '13? I'm counting 1 more if all the stars align. 

Exactly, and if not for ETNZ, there would've been no challengers.

 

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34 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Teams were forced to buy AC45F's last time too.

Its chump change for the Challenging teams.

This is just a MASSIVE, MASSIVE nonsense from you!!! No one and I mean no one was forced to buy an AC45F because the AC45's already existed from the ACWS in 2011/2012.

Challenging Teams for Bermuda 2017 just had to modify it to a Foiling Boat Downwind. The AC45 which belonged to JP Morgan BAR was modified to an AC45F and then used by Land Rover BAR to compete in the ACWS 2015/16.

Stop making inaccurate claims!

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3 hours ago, Chobani Sailor said:

It's hogwash no matter what.  He just stuck teams with an additional $6M - $2M for the 40 and $4M for his HSVs.   There are not too many people wanting to piss away $100M

And that is just to start with.

They then need a mens team, a womens team, a youth team and a support team. Then they need to fly the whole lot all around the world (not very green) for a couple of races.

Talk about keeping the costs down.

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2 hours ago, Forourselves said:

But still far more than 2013.

And lets not forget, Softbank were an Oracle team, so count them out and you have 4 challengers.

 

 

AC34. 12 entered, 3 ended up challenging

AC35, 7 entered, 5 ended up challenging

AC36, 3 entered, all challenged.

AC37, 4 max?

 

 

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1 hour ago, Gissie said:

And that is just to start with.

They then need a mens team, a womens team, a youth team and a support team. Then they need to fly the whole lot all around the world (not very green) for a couple of races.

Talk about keeping the costs down.

GD said AC32 in Valencia with iacc v5 cost the same as AC36 in AC75 foiling monohulls. Does anyone believe this to be possible?

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31 minutes ago, shebeen said:

GD said AC32 in Valencia with iacc v5 cost the same as AC36 in AC75 foiling monohulls. Does anyone believe this to be possible?

Yeah I'd believe that. 12 fully funded teams with multiple boat in 2007 probably all together cost about what the 4 teams spend last time... :P

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5 hours ago, Chobani Sailor said:

It's hogwash no matter what.  He just stuck teams with an additional $6M - $2M for the 40 and $4M for his HSVs.   There are not too many people wanting to piss away $100M

 

1 hour ago, Gissie said:

And that is just to start with.

They then need a mens team, a womens team, a youth team and a support team. Then they need to fly the whole lot all around the world (not very green) for a couple of races.

Talk about keeping the costs down.

Come on folks, these are ground breaking, cost reduction measures!

Every extra dollar spent, I mean saved, goes toward carbon offsets.....

Also, maintaining a national team in another country, lots of money saved there for NZ, right?

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1 minute ago, Liquid said:

 

Come on folks, these are ground breaking, cost reduction measures!

Every extra dollar spent, I mean saved, goes toward carbon offsets.....

Also, maintaining a national team in another country, lots of money saved there for NZ, right?

Definitely telephone game so may be zero credibility but I heard from a TNZ person that American Magic is petitioning to Auckland Counsel and NZ Immigration to allow them to come back to Auckland to train until the teams go to wherever the venue will be.  Allegedly they don't want to ship everything to the US only to turn around and ship everything to somewhere else given the short time frame for the next regatta.

1)  That's some good money being dumped into Auckland for whatever period of time they would be there

2) It puts TNZ and American Magic together while LR, Alinghy and Ineos train back in Cagliari during the winter months

3) Guessing the NYYC and AM are coming back as bed buddies.  I wonder who is the top and who is the bottom in this relationship.

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2 hours ago, shebeen said:

GD said AC32 in Valencia with iacc v5 cost the same as AC36 in AC75 foiling monohulls. Does anyone believe this to be possible?

Yes. Entire campaign budget? Quite likely.

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1 hour ago, floater said:

lol. and after all, team NZ got to live at home..

Quite right. A shit load more expensive to campaign offshore. But then for GD, he's betting on raising a substantially bigger budget offshore too. 

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3 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

Quite right. A shit load more expensive to campaign offshore. But then for GD, he's betting on raising a substantially bigger budget offshore too. 

He probably needs at least NZ$7.5M to relocate and house his team for a year in Europe - assuming families are going and they are not living in a hostel. 

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4 minutes ago, NeedAClew said:

Larry probably spent more than a couple of other teams combined.

I reckon, Sir James will have dug pretty deep as well, by the time he get his hand on the, Old Mug.

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3 hours ago, Chobani Sailor said:

Definitely telephone game so may be zero credibility but I heard from a TNZ person that American Magic is petitioning to Auckland Counsel and NZ Immigration to allow them to come back to Auckland to train until the teams go to wherever the venue will be.  Allegedly they don't want to ship everything to the US only to turn around and ship everything to somewhere else given the short time frame for the next regatta.

1)  That's some good money being dumped into Auckland for whatever period of time they would be there

2) It puts TNZ and American Magic together while LR, Alinghy and Ineos train back in Cagliari during the winter months

3) Guessing the NYYC and AM are coming back as bed buddies.  I wonder who is the top and who is the bottom in this relationship.

The 37th America's Cup Venue will be CORK, IRELAND. That makes most sense now!

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4 hours ago, Chobani Sailor said:

Depends on which set of accounting books he is using.

He has stated it a number of times over the year, and I remember someone saying that the sail budget alone for 2007 was over $25m so I tend to take Grant at his word here.

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6 hours ago, Forourselves said:

Teams were forced to buy AC45F's last time too.

Its chump change for the Challenging teams.

Every team will be wanting to make a test boat for foil development, and this way, every team gets access to one for less than it would cost to design and build one themselves. Plus we get an extra cool class to boot. 

It is a cost saving if you know what teams will need to or want to spend, and I'm sure serious teams know that.

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7 hours ago, Forourselves said:

Hopefully we’ll end up with 5.

Who else are you expecting to enter?

Ineos', Luna Rosa, America magic, 

Ailinghi

The sugar plum fairy

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America's Cup: Several teams make formal challenge when entries open

The entry period for the 37th America’s Cup is now open.

As of 12am 1st December 2021 Challengers can now officially enter the next edition of the oldest trophy in international sport.

Kevin Shoebridge, COO of Emirates Team New Zealand said, “The Defender, RNZYS & Emirates Team New Zealand, have had very positive initial interest since the release of the Protocol of the 37th America’s Cup, feedback and interest from prospective teams, both existing and new has been very encouraging.”

Soon after the entry period opening several challengers were received by the RNZYS and Emirates Team New Zealand.

The entry period for Challengers runs until 31st July 2022, but late entries for the 37th America’s Cup maybe accepted until 31st May 2023.

The order of entry determines the allocation of their AC40 yachts and team bases at the venue of the 37th America’s Cup.

In terms of the identities of the Challengers, it is up to the teams themselves to announce their individual challenge when they are ready as some do wish to remain confidential for now.

Aaron Young, Commodore of the RNZYS said, “Certainly this is a really positive indication and start to the 37th America’s Cup, which I think is a reflection on all of the incredible work that has been going on over the past 8 months by ETNZ and the RNZYS which has set a solid foundation for a successful 37th America’s Cup.”

https://www.sail-world.com/news/244374/Americas-Cup-Several-teams-make-formal-challenge

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17 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

There is a list of five or six teams who are serious potential entrants.

This is in addition to Ineos.


https://www.sail-world.com/news/244375/Americas-Cup-Encouraging-level-of-AC37-entries?source=twitter

Other than Alinghi and the challengers from last time, it’s just a fluff piece including the same dreamers as last time. 

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50 minutes ago, Monkey said:

Other than Alinghi and the challengers from last time, it’s just a fluff piece including the same dreamers as last time. 

Except the "dreamers" seem to have their act together now.

Well at least a little more than they did before.

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On 11/29/2021 at 10:52 PM, shebeen said:

Why would anyone enter on the first day?

There's nothing to be gained from getting your name on the list. Order an AC40 build slot? you probably don't want the first one or two off the production line either there.

 

 

4 hours ago, Flippin Out said:

Someone thinks it was a good idea.

etnz.jpg

i stand corrected, we have a regatta!

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5 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

I guess anything is better than the last 2 shitters they had!

B1 was a real shocker. I didn't think B2 was too bad, but they messed up on the foils and the rig. They're still going to need a quantum leap in performance from their last effort to figure in the next cup.

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12 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

B1 was a real shocker. I didn't think B2 was too bad, but they messed up on the foils and the rig. They're still going to need a quantum leap in performance from their last effort to figure in the next cup.

They built a boat from scratch that went 25kts vmg. the other guys went 28kts vmg. a month later they got it to 28, but the other guys went to 29.

 

I think all of these V2 boats are going to be a leap ahead, and won't read too much into what happened in auckland.

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1 minute ago, Horn Rock said:

They've tweaked the rule making comparisons to the old boats problematic. Still plenty of scope to make a hash of it.

look i think they made some mistakes in AC36. 

they will be big enough to admit it.

they are throwing money at the problem. I will be very surprised if Ineos team GB arrive with a dog

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24 minutes ago, shebeen said:

I will be very surprised if Ineos team GB arrive with a dog

They can't afford to - no one can. Nobody wants to see them turn up with a dog. A close event is the ideal.

25 minutes ago, shebeen said:

they are throwing money at the problem.

Not a guarantee of success as we saw last time with them, but yeah I'm expecting a better effort. Make no mistake though, Ben's teams have under performed in the design aspects of the cup. They need to change that.

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Alinghis Entrance into the 37th AC puts any speculation that it will be in Auckland to bed/rest I think. Dalts can't afford to mount an underfunded Defence, not with INEOS/Mercedes and Alinghi/Red Bull teaming up.

James Allison & Christian Horner aren't Amateurs I can tell you that!

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@Chobani Sailor

Richard Gladwell says that Ernesto/Alinghi are in the process of buying Team New Zealands 1st Generation AC75 "Te Aihe" and that they have challenged under a Swiss Yacht Club.

Not sure if mentioned but it appears that the 2nd Team that has paid their initial 1.74 Million $ Entry Fee is LUNA ROSSA. Max Sirena confirmed that they have filled a "Notice of Challenge for AC37" and awaiting now confirmation from the Kiwis.

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On 12/2/2021 at 5:49 AM, dg_sailingfan said:

Alinghis Entrance into the 37th AC puts any speculation that it will be in Auckland to bed/rest I think. Dalts can't afford to mount an underfunded Defence,

Except there is, as yet, no better offer than the Auckland one on the table. After at least a year of selling it, no bites. So he may have no choice but be underfunded.

It is also the most likely reason he opened entry months before venue is announced. Hopes enough interest to sweet talk some idiots into funding him.

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53 minutes ago, Gissie said:

Except there is, as yet, no better offer than the Auckland one on the table. After at least a year of selling it, no bites. So he may have no choice but be underfunded.

It is also the most likely reason he opened entry months before venue is announced. Hopes enough interest to sweet talk some idiots into funding him.

There are better offers than from that Clown Dunphy!

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1 hour ago, Gissie said:

Except there is, as yet, no better offer than the Auckland one on the table. After at least a year of selling it, no bites. So he may have no choice but be underfunded.

ETNZ can run a plenty well-enough funded Defense on home waters in Auckland, just like last time. There is plenty on offer down there including all the infrastructure required.

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17 hours ago, Forourselves said:

Te Aihe still sits outside the base and isn't even wrapped.

263454307_6895254243832902_1162866856695

That plastic is expensive. Which one is Te Aihe? These stupid names all sound the same. Let's take your land and then we'll name shit in your language after you get done spending the iron nails and beads we gave you.

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2 minutes ago, pusslicker said:

That plastic is expensive. Which one is Te Aihe? These stupid names all sound the same. Let's take your land and then we'll name shit in your language after you get done spending the iron nails and beads we gave you.

:D

I actually like ETNZ's boat names, always have.

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11 minutes ago, pusslicker said:

That plastic is expensive. Which one is Te Aihe? These stupid names all sound the same. Let's take your land and then we'll name shit in your language after you get done spending the iron nails and beads we gave you.

Actually they preferred axes and muskets.

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Just now, Stingray~ said:

ETNZ can run a plenty well-enough funded Defense on home waters in Auckland, just like last time. There is plenty on offer down there including all the infrastructure required.

Hear, hear, ETNZ's new CEO speaking. After you take your 20% cut, and 10 million performance bond, and pay Blair and Tuke, there is nothing left. Oh, still waiting for Dunfuck's 40 million, are you?

Anyway, the Omygod variant and lockdown is now imminent too. You're fired! And I hear that I've just been appointed Executor, and have already frozen your bank account in Monaco.

Your latest boat name is very appropriate though, Jeddah or was it Jadajada? Asking for the team.

 

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