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Can sailing become less white??


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Yeah, from the front page, and Ed's lament thereon:

https://sailinganarchy.com/2021/12/07/circle-jerk-3/

Not a new topic, it comes up from time to time, typically without getting any real traction.

So, how to do it? 

Invite your nonwhite friends (you do have some, right?) out for a sail.  Repeat frequently.

Support community sailing centers, where you can get out and sail without a ton of money, and get lessons as needed.  Talk it up to anyone with cred in the, uh, nonsailing community, who can maybe make part of the learning a STEM-related learning thing for geometry and trig for the high-schoolers, and talk sailing up generally with friends who would not have considered it otherwise.

Start young, with middle and high-schoolers.

Growing up, I didn't give it much thought.  And in Marblehead in the '50s and 60s, there were no black residents at all living there. And the yacht clubs--it was news when the Eastern YC accepted their first--wait for it--Catholic member.  And the Dolphin was the Jewish Yacht Club.

New Orleans is a much more target-rich environment, half the city and most of the political class is of color. And still we haven't made much progress.  I hope that changes, and we get more folks at the community sailing facility.  It is starting to happen.

Stay tuned...

 

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Why?  Diversity for diversity sake?  There are local community sailing programs here that have minority participation but just like in College sailing the follow on is not there.  
If it is your goal then work towards it on your boat.  

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1 hour ago, nolatom said:

Yeah, from the front page, and Ed's lament thereon:

https://sailinganarchy.com/2021/12/07/circle-jerk-3/

Not a new topic, it comes up from time to time, typically without getting any real traction.

So, how to do it? 

Invite your nonwhite friends (you do have some, right?) out for a sail.  Repeat frequently.

Support community sailing centers, where you can get out and sail without a ton of money, and get lessons as needed.  Talk it up to anyone with cred in the, uh, nonsailing community, who can maybe make part of the learning a STEM-related learning thing for geometry and trig for the high-schoolers, and talk sailing up generally with friends who would not have considered it otherwise.

Start young, with middle and high-schoolers.

Growing up, I didn't give it much thought.  And in Marblehead in the '50s and 60s, there were no black residents at all living there. And the yacht clubs--it was news when the Eastern YC accepted their first--wait for it--Catholic member.  And the Dolphin was the Jewish Yacht Club.

New Orleans is a much more target-rich environment, half the city and most of the political class is of color. And still we haven't made much progress.  I hope that changes, and we get more folks at the community sailing facility.  It is starting to happen.

Stay tuned...

 

Build it and they will come. It's fun.

P1120759op1+workday+beginners.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

High school junior ROTC sailing class. This was at the end of the semester, their task is de-rigging the boats and getting them ready for winter. Not sure you can see the human mix, but almost every ethnicity is represented here. We don't recruit, we just show them the boats and make sure they don't hurt themselves (or each other).

- DSK

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3 hours ago, sailman said:

Why?  Diversity for diversity sake?  There are local community sailing programs here that have minority participation but just like in College sailing the follow on is not there.  
If it is your goal then work towards it on your boat.  

 Then don't do it for diversity's sake, do it for the sport of sailing's sake.  If sailing is "a rich white person's sport", the sport, and market, will continue to shrink and die... the sport, and the market will benefit from more people involved.  More people buying boats, more people sailing, more people racing.  The biggest source of untapped people to recruit happens to be all the under-represented people... be it gender, race, economic class, etc., etc.,... 

It's perfectly possible to take a "I'll do it only because it benefits me" stance in broadening sailing's appeal.  If you have to do that.

Otherwise this sport will continue to be just white grapes withering on the vine until it slowly dies because only the rich white people care.

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17 minutes ago, RedHerring said:

 Then don't do it for diversity's sake, do it for the sport of sailing's sake.  If sailing is "a rich white person's sport", the sport, and market, will continue to shrink and die... the sport, and the market will benefit from more people involved.  More people buying boats, more people sailing, more people racing.  The biggest source of untapped people to recruit happens to be all the under-represented people... be it gender, race, economic class, etc., etc.,... 

It's perfectly possible to take a "I'll do it only because it benefits me" stance in broadening sailing's appeal.  If you have to do that.

Otherwise this sport will continue to be just white grapes withering on the vine until it slowly dies because only the rich white people care.

There are plenty of rich people but they are outnumbered by regular sailors that belong to low key clubs through out the Country.  Forcing diversity will fail and further divide the community.  

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9 minutes ago, crashtack said:

For people who proclaim to be post-racist, californians sure do obsess over race a lot. Why does it matter what color is sailing boats? The barrier to entry in the sport is generally wealth, and not skin tone.

It isn't the color. It is the class. We know that sailing is perceived as classist. Frankly so is big game sport fishing. Or playing the oboe. Well maybe on that last part. Triangle? Definitely class.

I think the bigger challenge to sailing is the same as the challenge to so many other non-powered pasttimes. In the US anyway, Petroleum Pastimes are not merely dominant, they are hegemonic. This crosses classes and in fact the "lower" classes tend to be arguably even more enthralled with them. Go out on pretty much any river anywhere in the U.S. Who is NOT in a motorboat? Well to do or college bound kids and college athletes. (oarswomen). What are the spanish speaking people doing? Running jetskis. What does EVERYBODY do in Florida? Get in a motorboat on Sat and go run through the inlet (or not) and fish (or not). Just that the rich ones do it in a Buddy Davis or a Merritt and the working guys do it in a used Bayliner.

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8 minutes ago, sailman said:

There are plenty of rich people but they are outnumbered by regular sailors that belong to low key clubs through out the Country.  Forcing diversity will fail and further divide the community.  

The facts and the perception are miles apart. You are correct that most sailboat racing is in inland waters carried out by people of modest means sailing mostly unballasted sailing dinghies or scows. And this sailing is really at the heart and soul of one design racing. Yet we tend to be paying attention to the coasts. Why is that? I live on a coast. Oh. There's that.

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2 minutes ago, fastyacht said:

It isn't the color. It is the class. We know that sailing is perceived as classist. Frankly so is big game sport fishing. Or playing the oboe. Well maybe on that last part. Triangle? Definitely class.

I think the bigger challenge to sailing is the same as the challenge to so many other non-powered pasttimes. In the US anyway, Petroleum Pastimes are not merely dominant, they are hegemonic. This crosses classes and in fact the "lower" classes tend to be arguably even more enthralled with them. Go out on pretty much any river anywhere in the U.S. Who is NOT in a motorboat? Well to do or college bound kids and college athletes. What are the spanish speaking people doing? Running jetskis. What does EVERYBODY do in Florida? Get in a motorboat on Sat and go run through the inlet (or not) and fish (or not). Just that the rich ones do it in a Buddy Davis or a Merritt and the working guys do it in a used Bayliner.

https://nolacommunitysailing.org

Welcome to Community Sailing New Orleans

 
 
 

The Libby and Robert Alexander Sailing Center

 
 
 

Eliminating the economic and physical obstacles to sailing for all in the greater New Orleans area.

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1 hour ago, RedHerring said:

 Then don't do it for diversity's sake, do it for the sport of sailing's sake.  If sailing is "a rich white person's sport", the sport, and market, will continue to shrink and die... the sport, and the market will benefit from more people involved.  More people buying boats, more people sailing, more people racing.  The biggest source of untapped people to recruit happens to be all the under-represented people... be it gender, race, economic class, etc., etc.,... 

It's perfectly possible to take a "I'll do it only because it benefits me" stance in broadening sailing's appeal.  If you have to do that.

Otherwise this sport will continue to be just white grapes withering on the vine until it slowly dies because only the rich white people care.

Do you think NBA or NFL players are expressing Black guilt over their sports take over? Are Brokers denying them from purchasing Boats? Are the Boat owners having clandestine meetings I am not aware of?

Most owners I know are always in the pursuit of crew and are willing to teach. 

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1 hour ago, sailman said:

There are plenty of rich people but they are outnumbered by regular sailors that belong to low key clubs through out the Country.  Forcing diversity will fail and further divide the community.  

??

What is being "forced" here?

- DSK

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1 hour ago, fastyacht said:

It isn't the color. It is the class. We know that sailing is perceived as classist. Frankly so is big game sport fishing. Or playing the oboe. Well maybe on that last part. Triangle? Definitely class.

I think the bigger challenge to sailing is the same as the challenge to so many other non-powered pasttimes. In the US anyway, Petroleum Pastimes are not merely dominant, they are hegemonic. This crosses classes and in fact the "lower" classes tend to be arguably even more enthralled with them. Go out on pretty much any river anywhere in the U.S. Who is NOT in a motorboat? Well to do or college bound kids and college athletes. What are the spanish speaking people doing? Running jetskis. What does EVERYBODY do in Florida? Get in a motorboat on Sat and go run through the inlet (or not) and fish (or not). Just that the rich ones do it in a Buddy Davis or a Merritt and the working guys do it in a used Bayliner.

I think its a cultural phenomenon as much as a class phenomenon. You are much more likely to take up an activity if your family/cohort is participating, and sailing/rowing/lacrosse/etc. are WASP-y pastimes in the US.

You want diversity? Focus on providing more opportunities for college sailors after graduation - college sailing is the most "equitable" and "diverse" niche of the sport in the US and introduces a lot of unlikely people to sailing, yet there is massive dropoff after the fact because there's just no good continuation.

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4 hours ago, sailman said:

There are plenty of rich people but they are outnumbered by regular sailors that belong to low key clubs through out the Country.  Forcing diversity will fail and further divide the community.  

I agree that the majority of sailors out there today are low key, etc., but in my area, and the groups I'm involved in, both small inland small cat racing and larger multi and monohull sailing on California coastal waters, it's frankly mostly reasonably-well-to-do white folk.  Like me, to be honest.  And most of them/me are getting to be on the older side.  The lack of new blood in sailing is a common discussion point and complaint on these forums. To participate, you have to have the time, which means not working three jobs or be worrying about paying for the $75 in gas it will take to get to an crew an event, never mind the $$$$$ of owning your own boat.

One of the fleets I'm involved in has put in effort into outreach to areas that we wouldn't "traditionally" think of as sailors in the context of this conversation, and have had at least a little success in bringing in and including new blood to keep the fleet healthy and even slowly growing.  Not perfect, but a start.

Another group I'm part of has, if anything, tightened ranks due to the unfortunate political perspectives of some of the leadership, and will likely soon die with them.   

"Forcing" diversity isn't the point.  I agree that forcing people to do things tends to work poorly, and not get the result you're looking for.  On the other hand, being inclusive (and, ironically, not tolerating those who are not... which can be seen as "forcing"... but it's not...) tends to over time bring in more people, who in turn have friends, etc., and leads to a more vibrant and healthy community.  

Edit to add:  I'm a very tolerant person.  I like catamaran or trimaran sailors, and even windersurfers.  Kite sailors are pushing it, but ok in my book.  The people I really can't tolerate are the people who put a huge hunk of weight on the bottom of the boat because they're not able to keep it pointy side up  without it, and going fast scares them.  Those people aren't real sailors, and I can't stand them.  I mean, who can stand at a bar after a race and be PROUD of the fact that they hit 10 knts?  Jeez.  Get these people out of sailing.  Maybe a lay-z-boy would be more their speed?  That's the kind of intolerance I'm willing to tolerate. :)

Edited again to add, because it's my second gin and tonic: so much of this is about perception.  From the mythical FP post that started it... the commercial face of sailing, and the faces people see on the crappy television coverage that happens, don't make the majority of people in the US think, "Oh, that's me, I could do that, that looks like a fun sport.  I wonder if I could try that around here?"  They think, "Oh look, that billionaire who owns Oracle had enough money to buy some English guy to drive his boat for him.  He's pushing buttons.  I wonder what's on the History Channel?" 

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(FWIW I am African American - but since I don't look like it - have been called 'Cracker' more than once here in Chicago...but I digress.)

This is about breaking cultural barriers more than overcoming any imagined "Systemic Racism"

Jackson Park Yacht Club is doing great work. These kinds of efforts need to be expanded...

The Sea Leavens The Petty Disputes Of Man

 

 

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Check out the [white] guy aboard American Girl 'closely monitoring' the preparations of the Kru getting underway...

He certainly does appear to be taking in the 'optics'.

(must be an avid SA participant)

 

 

watchingkru.JPG

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13 hours ago, nolatom said:

 

So, how to do it? 

Invite your nonwhite friends (you do have some, right?) out for a sail.  Repeat frequently.

Start young, with middle and high-schoolers.

 

 

But if I don't pay them, will someone say it's slavery and child labour?? 

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14 hours ago, crashtack said:

For people who proclaim to be post-racist, californians sure do obsess over race a lot. Why does it matter what color is sailing boats? The barrier to entry in the sport (in the US) is generally wealth, and not skin tone - focus on that.

Then why is there a lot more variety of skin tone on the fishing boats at your marina then the sailing fleet?    My boat is the only one I’ve seen non Caucasian passengers on since I started renting a slip:   Japanese GF, Vietnamese family hanging at the marina with bored kids and black guys on the beach that were curious and hollered out to me.   Maybe it’s because I’m Caucasian that darkens to mixed minority level by mid summer (white dick, dark brown face and arms) so people approach me.

edit.   My GF is very aware how white the marinas have been she actually goes in a cruise with me.   Though occasionally uncomfortable, sea sickness bothers her more then the color of catty female yachters she encountered in marina showers. 

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14 hours ago, crashtack said:

For people who proclaim to be post-racist, californians sure do obsess over race a lot. Why does it matter what color is sailing boats? The barrier to entry in the sport (in the US) is generally wealth, and not skin tone - focus on that.

Yah , sailing is expensive and requires free time 

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Sailing need not be expensive, I spent 15 years of my 40+ years sailing with the "Must Pay" part of that ... £75 (about $100) per year..

Now , with my own small boat to sail, the total "Must Pay" will be about £500 ($660) that's club membership, mooring fees, boat insurance, a small tin of anti fouling, and a new set of sails every 6 years..

Yes that's a lot to people on the bread line, but it does mean a lot more people can go sailing.. the American fixation of Big boats and expensive marinas doesn't have to apply..

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18 minutes ago, slug zitski said:

Yah , sailing is expensive and requires free time 

Small boat sailing is often cheap compared to similar sized fishing boats, with hundreds of dollars of fuel, multiple motors, sonar, multiple rods, etc.   Its the guys that try to get it over with in a hurry and get back to harbor as quickly as possible that spend a lot of money.

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28 minutes ago, slug zitski said:

Yah , sailing is expensive and requires free time 

It is expensive for the owners, but when you consider that at least for keelboat racing, if there are 10 people on boat, typically 90% of them are not owners. As others have said, most owners have to go looking for crew and I would think that for the vast majority, skin color is not a consideration. Showing up reliably and being willing to learn are considerations and no, I am not implying these traits are only found in white people.

I would point out, though, that with most kids, video games are more appealing and don't require parents to drive them to a marina. Kids in their 20s are focused on video games and new jobs and dating, people in their 30s are starting families, people in their 40s are taking kids to soccer games every weekend... I think any hobby (except maybe soccer) has trouble competing with all that.

I expect this thread will devolve quickly. Firing up the popcorn popper...  

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Sailing is ruled by the snobby white (and male) run yacht clubs. The global sailing world continues to support this including US Sailing and whatever is left of World Sailing. As long as resources are focused on exclusive clubs there will continue to be inequities.  As many people have noted, community sailing organizations can help increase diversity. 

Also, in the US the other problem is that minorities disproportionately do not have access to swimming lessons. Every white suburb and urban region has a community (or private club) pool but they are often scarce in minority areas. Think about going out on the water if you don't know how to swim.  Improving access to good swimming teaching will also lead to more minorities heading out on the water.  

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12 minutes ago, Rum Runner said:

Sailing is ruled by the snobby white (and male) run yacht clubs. The global sailing world continues to support this including US Sailing and whatever is left of World Sailing. As long as resources are focused on exclusive clubs there will continue to be inequities.  As many people have noted, community sailing organizations can help increase diversity. 

Also, in the US the other problem is that minorities disproportionately do not have access to swimming lessons. Every white suburb and urban region has a community (or private club) pool but they are often scarce in minority areas. Think about going out on the water if you don't know how to swim.  Improving access to good swimming teaching will also lead to more minorities heading out on the water.  

^ this ^

Public access to swimming, and to waterfront in general, is on the decline again. In the late 1950s there was a recession which began toppling a lot of the businesses on developed waterfront in many US urban areas. This led to more parks and sailing clubs along that same waterfront, just in the nick of time for the Firberglass Revolution in mass-produced boats.

The youth sailing prgrams that I help with -do- give the kids a hand with swimming. It helps.

- DSK

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1 hour ago, George Dewey said:

It is expensive for the owners, but when you consider that at least for keelboat racing, if there are 10 people on boat, typically 90% of them are not owners. As others have said, most owners have to go looking for crew and I would think that for the vast majority, skin color is not a consideration. Showing up reliably and being willing to learn are considerations and no, I am not implying these traits are only found in white people.

I would point out, though, that with most kids, video games are more appealing and don't require parents to drive them to a marina. Kids in their 20s are focused on video games and new jobs and dating, people in their 30s are starting families, people in their 40s are taking kids to soccer games every weekend... I think any hobby (except maybe soccer) has trouble competing with all that.

I expect this thread will devolve quickly. Firing up the popcorn popper...  

1000 dollars for a set of foul weather gear 

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1 hour ago, Rum Runner said:

Sailing is ruled by the snobby white (and male) run yacht clubs. The global sailing world continues to support this including US Sailing and whatever is left of World Sailing. As long as resources are focused on exclusive clubs there will continue to be inequities.  As many people have noted, community sailing organizations can help increase diversity. 

Also, in the US the other problem is that minorities disproportionately do not have access to swimming lessons. Every white suburb and urban region has a community (or private club) pool but they are often scarce in minority areas. Think about going out on the water if you don't know how to swim.  Improving access to good swimming teaching will also lead to more minorities heading out on the water.  

Hmm

i never had swimming lessons 

dad just took us down to the creek and told us to swim 

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17 hours ago, robalex117 said:

https://nolacommunitysailing.org

Welcome to Community Sailing New Orleans

 
 
 

The Libby and Robert Alexander Sailing Center

 
 
 

Eliminating the economic and physical obstacles to sailing for all in the greater New Orleans area.

Thanks. That's where I'm teaching part-time. Not expensive, look it up. 

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2 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

^ this ^

Public access to swimming, and to waterfront in general, is on the decline again. In the late 1950s there was a recession which began toppling a lot of the businesses on developed waterfront in many US urban areas. This led to more parks and sailing clubs along that same waterfront, just in the nick of time for the Firberglass Revolution in mass-produced boats.

The youth sailing prgrams that I help with -do- give the kids a hand with swimming. It helps.

- DSK

It's still a problem, but starting to get better.  The non-accessibility phenomenon is real I'm sure, but..  Here in New Orleans the Rec Department, "NORD", has four very new and very good rec facilities year-round with pools and lessons, and they're not in the chi-chi-neighborhoods, instead it's Treme, Gert Town, Lower Ninth ward, and New Orleans East, for you who've been here. 
 

https://nordc.org/activities/aquatics/

I've been lap swimming lately at two of them, one neighborhood slightly sketchy, the other truly sketchy. But that's where they can serve the most-underserved folks.

Anyway, progress not perfection.  Maybe some of these new or improved swimmers will be confident enough for sailing not to be too intimidating right out of the box.

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5 minutes ago, nolatom said:
2 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

... The youth sailing prgrams that I help with -do- give the kids a hand with swimming. It helps

It's still a problem, but starting to get better.  The non-accessibility phenomenon is real I'm sure, but..  Here in New Orleans the Rec Department, "NORD", has four very new and very good rec facilities year-round with pools and lessons, and they're not in the chi-chi-neighborhoods, instead it's Treme, Gert Town, Lower Ninth ward, and New Orleans East, for you who've been here. 
 

https://nordc.org/activities/aquatics/

I've been lap swimming lately at two of them, one neighborhood slightly sketchy, the other truly sketchy. But that's where they can serve the most-underserved folks.

Anyway, progress not perfection.  Maybe some of these new or improved swimmers will be confident enough for sailing not to be too intimidating.

Zackly, Rome wasn't built in a day.

At some point, people realizing that it's not really so-o expensive, that it's actually fun, and while it does take some skill they can learn and do it; and those people will bring friends along, and it will snowball. That is what happened with our high school program. The kids saw other kids having fun, and went to check it out, and about half stayed because they liked it. Now, I'm hoping we can rebuild after 2 world-ending disasters in 3 years.

- DSK

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Sailing as a crew is about the cheapest gear sport there is, all you have to do is turn up and there is a line of owners who will give you a blowjob to sail on their boats. If you are any good, reliable, fit then they will give you their wife to fuck in the mornings and their daughters for the weekend bukkake party.

What shits me about people complaining about how expensive sailing is or how exclusive it is that they probably dont actually sail or own a boat. Ownership is expensive, club membership is cheap for a crew as most clubs have heavily discounted fee structures for the slaves.

As a crew you need;

Wets- this can range from the top of the line offshore gear to whatever  they can find in the dank shitpile up front somewhere

Thats about it...

Want to join the club, it might be as couple of hundred max per year to enjoy the facilities and its optional as you can always go up to the bar and spend money.

Basically is a dirt cheap sport for crewing and stupid expensive sport for owners, i.e by my calculations I spend about $300 per race not allowing for deep boat maintenance costs- just parking the fucker and the odd sail or string.

 

 

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22 hours ago, nolatom said:

So, how to do it?

Assuming this is in the US of A?  Improve the perpetual inequalities in education, work, pay, and nearly every other aspect of daily life?

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4 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

The kids saw other kids having fun, and went to check it out, and about half stayed because they liked it.

^This is the key.  Although long-term, I think people lose interest when they cannot foresee how to own their own boat. Because who wants to just crew for a lifetime? That boat investment, weighed against the opportunity cost of everything else in their lives, takes a lot of peoples' interest away.

But I want to hear more from you virtue-signalers who are on this thread to finger-wag at the rest of us, and also you rich old white guys who want to say sailing doesn't cost much money. :lol:

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50 minutes ago, Caecilian said:

Sailing as a crew is about the cheapest gear sport there is, all you have to do is turn up and there is a line of owners who will give you a blowjob to sail on their boats. If you are any good, reliable, fit then they will give you their wife to fuck in the mornings and their daughters for the weekend bukkake party.

Hm, maybe I should sell my boat and crew...

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So Philadelphia is 40 40 20 approx. "black" "white" "whatever 'hispanic' is called this week"

And most black Philadelphians are solid middle or wkrking class or higher.

What do you think the sailing scene distribution is?

Cultural issues. This is bigger than access. Frankly unless someone has a dream or imaginatiom about it...it will not happen.

How to change? I dunno--maybe take your black friends out sailing? Oh wait, there is a Sat Nite skit about that...

One of my adult student at Liberty years ago was a retired policeman who was black. As we sailed by the old sugar terminal in Fishtown there was certain graffiti. No words but eye contact. Yes he wanted to go cruising. Carribean and beyond...

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1) Forcing diversity in a hobby vs. 2) correcting discriminatory practices preventing people who want to sail from sailing.  

1- seems silly

2-does it really exist anymore? I can't imagine a club turning down a new paying member based on the color of their skin

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Instead of trying to apply affirmative action to sailing, the real worry is if anyone in the future is going to want to keep sailing. I have plenty of friends with the time and resources to get a sailboat, they don’t. They buy a pontoon boat, or a wakesurf boat, etc. The average person would rather go blasting along the water at 40 than take a slow, patient trip in a sailboat. The mobo takes virtually no skill, easy to drive, is cheaper to maintain, (besides fuel) and can get them to the beach in a lot less time. No heeling, flogging sails, tacking, Etc. The crew on a pontoon boat is in charge of drinking beers and changing the song. People in general are getting too lazy to sail, regardless of the color of their skin. 

I have always taken the road less traveled, and just bought a sailboat lol. 

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20 hours ago, Rum Runner said:

Sailing is ruled by the snobby white (and male) run yacht clubs. The global sailing world continues to support this including US Sailing and whatever is left of World Sailing. As long as resources are focused on exclusive clubs there will continue to be inequities.  As many people have noted, community sailing organizations can help increase diversity. 

Also, in the US the other problem is that minorities disproportionately do not have access to swimming lessons. Every white suburb and urban region has a community (or private club) pool but they are often scarce in minority areas. Think about going out on the water if you don't know how to swim.  Improving access to good swimming teaching will also lead to more minorities heading out on the water.  

In the UK it's a requirement of the national Curriculum that all children are required to learn to swim at school.

Parents and Pupils | Swim England School Swimming Guidance

Not everywhere are sailing clubs committees white male only.., last years Commodore of our club is in HER low 30's over the years, we've had several female officers.. and our club procedure is once elected to a flag rank you work your way up to being Commodore, so normally we've got at least one female Flag officer.. Also all past flag officers stay on the committee.. So we've got several female committee members..

As for being white, The UK is about 5% black 5% Asian and the rest white, most of the non white are concentrated in London, Birmingham, Leicester, Manchester to Leeds.

So  our county, not in the above areas, of about a million people , is only 2% black and about 2% which would mean we should have 8 black and 8 Asianclub members .. On average, we are well under that with black members, they just haven't applied, but we are well over that with Asian members. Not that it matters, what colour you are, we've never turned down anyone who wants to sail..

As for getting people / children to sail, we have 80+ children registered at our club sailing school, they have to put them on a first come first served waiting list to join.. It's a case of getting the schools set up and running. then the kids will come, and by no means are they all children of those already sailing..

IIRC our charge is £5($6.59) a session , including use of boats / lifejackets / the clubhouse /  club motorboat classroom and insurances. Again if you are on the breadline you couldn't afford that.. but the Majority of people can..

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There is a lot of conversation about how cheap sailing is when you go out and crew on someone's boat. How sustainable it that for someone who is really into the sport? Your sailing is always dependent on the owner and the recognition for winning tends to go to the driver, who is usually the owner (even the results have only the skipper's name). Does the boat you sail on belong to a prestigious yacht club? Membership is not cheap, so once again your sailing experience is based on the owner of the boat you sail on. So you can put up with all of this, or just go fishing...

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19 hours ago, PNW-LSJ said:

Instead of trying to apply affirmative action to sailing, the real worry is if anyone in the future is going to want to keep sailing. I have plenty of friends with the time and resources to get a sailboat, they don’t. They buy a pontoon boat, or a wakesurf boat, etc. The average person would rather go blasting along the water at 40 than take a slow, patient trip in a sailboat. The mobo takes virtually no skill, easy to drive, is cheaper to maintain, (besides fuel) and can get them to the beach in a lot less time. No heeling, flogging sails, tacking, Etc. The crew on a pontoon boat is in charge of drinking beers and changing the song. People in general are getting too lazy to sail, regardless of the color of their skin. 

I have always taken the road less traveled, and just bought a sailboat lol. 

A motorboat is spontaneous ….grab the keys and go

i know many sailors who own motorboats and crew on sailboats 

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On 12/9/2021 at 3:41 AM, George Dewey said:

Most evening or weekend day races around the buoys don't require foul weather gear. Maybe a jacket. 

it maybe a real estate saying BUT it works here also 

 

Location , Location , Location 

 

I've been overnight in HK waters where the wind chill factor was well below zero , you'd kill for a full set of foulies .

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1 hour ago, keving said:

There is a lot of conversation about how cheap sailing is when you go out and crew on someone's boat. How sustainable it that for someone who is really into the sport? Your sailing is always dependent on the owner and the recognition for winning tends to go to the driver, who is usually the owner (even the results have only the skipper's name). Does the boat you sail on belong to a prestigious yacht club? Membership is not cheap, so once again your sailing experience is based on the owner of the boat you sail on. So you can put up with all of this, or just go fishing...

What happens is that crew take ownership of the boat, they turn up for haulouts and end up being part of the social scene together i.e friends. I have crew who have been with me since I started keel boat racing, other skippers have had crew for 20 years or more. After a while the boat has a life independent of the owner, who just pays the bills. Crewing is a cheap entry and permanent sporting passion. 

If every crew wanted to be on the handlebars and pay the bills then everyone is sailing lasers

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7 hours ago, The Q said:

In the UK it's a requirement of the national Curriculum that all children are required to learn to swim at school.

Parents and Pupils | Swim England School Swimming Guidance

Not everywhere are sailing clubs committees white male only.., last years Commodore of our club is in HER low 30's over the years, we've had several female officers.. and our club procedure is once elected to a flag rank you work your way up to being Commodore, so normally we've got at least one female Flag officer.. Also all past flag officers stay on the committee.. So we've got several female committee members..

As for being white, The UK is about 5% black 5% Asian and the rest white, most of the non white are concentrated in London, Birmingham, Leicester, Manchester to Leeds.

So  our county, not in the above areas, of about a million people , is only 2% black and about 2% which would mean we should have 8 black and 8 Asianclub members .. On average, we are well under that with black members, they just haven't applied, but we are well over that with Asian members. Not that it matters, what colour you are, we've never turned down anyone who wants to sail..

As for getting people / children to sail, we have 80+ children registered at our club sailing school, they have to put them on a first come first served waiting list to join.. It's a case of getting the schools set up and running. then the kids will come, and by no means are they all children of those already sailing..

IIRC our charge is £5($6.59) a session , including use of boats / lifejackets / the clubhouse /  club motorboat classroom and insurances. Again if you are on the breadline you couldn't afford that.. but the Majority of people can..

Hmmm, when I think  of sailing in the UK cheese comes to mind

wg.PNG.e77a136c8f6d94396c7bdb7d26c1a028.PNG

 

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I think it is a great idea for all of us. Be ready for someone to ask if they are the token person of diversity and have an answer ready. In my case I am ready to say I asked you first because I want to spend time with you and also because your diversity makes us better. Delicate convo for sure but made easier if you are sincere in your desire for them to join you. 

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Many people has mentioned word "caucasian" here. Apparently I as Finnish person am making sailing already less white. As term caucasian is part of old race theory which counts finns as Mongolian :rolleyes:

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On 12/8/2021 at 12:42 AM, Kapt'n Kirk said:

Looking pretty Caucasian

image.png.e9420d2ac1e04906f2b3d7b0fa576ba0.png 

Is it just me who finds these boats unpleasing to the eyes? The sheer, the cabin shape and size, the angle of the bow, the beamiest point, even the railing: everything seems just not right.

 

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43 minutes ago, AnotherSailor said:

Is it just me who finds these boats unpleasing to the eyes? The sheer, the cabin shape and size, the angle of the bow, the beamiest point, even the railing: everything seems just not right.

 

Well, it's a Clorox bottle, but to me not much worse than most Clorox bottles.  Lines to my eyes are not atypical of many such cruiser/racers of the '70s, 80s.  Given a choice of sailing on this one or never sailing at all, I'd take her.

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1 hour ago, Pertsa said:

Many people has mentioned word "caucasian" here. Apparently I as Finnish person am making sailing already less white. As term caucasian is part of old race theory which counts finns as Mongolian :rolleyes:

Well wasn't it a Finnish guy who had the world's highest hemoglobin count? Made him a skiing phenom, as all that hemoglobin translated into a terrific VO max. As I recall he was described as having very dark skin tone (a result of all those red blood cells).

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2 hours ago, cheese stick said:

Considering last time whitey invited black man aboard a sailing vessel, maybe blacks aren't ready to get into sailboats with white man again yet. Just saying’

 

You have a fair point there

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10 hours ago, nolatom said:

Well, it's a Clorox bottle, but to me not much worse than most Clorox bottles.  Lines to my eyes are not atypical of many such cruiser/racers of the '70s, 80s.  Given a choice of sailing on this one or never sailing at all, I'd take her.

Great endorsement!

 

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16 hours ago, AnotherSailor said:

Is it just me who finds these boats unpleasing to the eyes? The sheer, the cabin shape and size, the angle of the bow, the beamiest point, even the railing: everything seems just not right.

 

Looks like a Cal ?

They were correct for the time 

everybody grew up sailing on a Cal

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1 hour ago, slug zitski said:

Looks like a Cal ?

They were correct for the time 

everybody grew up sailing on a Cal

Fortunately that is untrue.  Too many of them look like bathtubs and you wonder if the designer made the clawfoots just as ugly as the tub.

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On 12/7/2021 at 4:00 PM, fastyacht said:

It already is. Just looking in the wrong places.

18_04_27-Bahamian-National-Regatta-A-Cla

In uncharted waters, Nethra Kumanan makes a splash

A match for the 22ft Dhows in Dubai

(cultural dissonance exists in sailing pictures)

 

"International Maxi Association" white? You don't say? I just NEVER would have thought that. NEVER. So Utterly shocked.

 

This:

977EA9CC-14CC-46A6-8EE8-438387CD3903.webp

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On 12/7/2021 at 4:00 PM, fastyacht said:

It already is. Just looking in the wrong places.

18_04_27-Bahamian-National-Regatta-A-Cla

In uncharted waters, Nethra Kumanan makes a splash

A match for the 22ft Dhows in Dubai

(cultural dissonance exists in sailing pictures)

 

"International Maxi Association" white? You don't say? I just NEVER would have thought that. NEVER. So Utterly shocked.

 

This- gets going about 1 minute in

 

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Sailing was very non white, its just the winners write history or view it through their lens. Pacific Islanders are the worlds greatest sailors and navigators, you would not believe how natural sailing comes to PI people if given a chance.

 

 

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10 hours ago, guerdon said:

A first world recreational quandary.  What color is fun?

Interesting question. Ed Van Halen talked about"brown" sound and Brian May liked that term so much he also applied it to how he always tuned his amplifiers.

So is fun brown?

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