Removing Inboard Diesel While Docked

[donderbalkie 0]

Hello All,

I'm not sure if I'm posting this in the right place, but you guys have always had sound advice, and have been tolerant of my ignorance, so I hope it's okay.

Also, just to give you an idea of what I'm dealing with.  I have a 1977 O'Day 27 Sailboat.  The inboard diesel is a 2006 Yanmar 1GM10.

So I've tried everything to get someone to come look at why my inboard diesel won't start.  A family friend who knows way more than I do (shocker, I know) came to help me on numerous occasions without success. The guy I found on Craigslist couldn't fix it, and still charged me $60 for coming out.  I then called a company that will come to you with a van and every tool packed away inside, but they said they don't work on small sailboats because it's just too difficult to move around inside them.

I guessed that the fuel was bad (it sat for a while during the pandemic), so I disconnected the fuel line and ran some fresh diesel which also didn't work.  I am sick of the boat yoga and nothing working, plus now my engine bay is a mess and I just want to take it out and mount it on the hard and try to fix it there a few last times before I inevitably take it to a diesel mechanic to fix it for me. 

I've already replaced the batteries, gave it an oil change, replaced the oil filter and fuel filter as well as the Racor.  Still doesn't want to turn over.

What I need to know is if it is even possible for me to remove this engine while docked.  I've seen tons of videos online of people doing it, but never a start to finish time-lapse video I can follow step by step. I am a novice in all things sailing and am afraid water will start gushing in as soon as I unbolt it and begin to try and hoist it out.  Is that a possibility?  Are there precautions I need to take to ensure it doesn't happen?  Any of you old salts able to dispense some much appreciated wisdom, or recommend some good literature or video to aid me in this endeavor?  Thank you all in advance.  

[El Borracho 2,612]

I removed my much much larger engine while at anchor at a remote tropical island. Singlehanded. Without help from YouTube. Unbolt it. Take it out. Take it home. Screw it to a wooden pallet. Fix it yourself or take it to someone.

The mechanics are correct in not wanting to work in a cramped (usually filthy) small boat engine box. 

Close the seacock first, if it still works. 

[MiddayGun 352]

I've done it before, same engine as you & single handed as per El Borracho. 

Assuming a shaft drive which it almost certainly is, you just need to make sure that the seawater inlet is shut off & the prop shaft doesn't fall out. The later is achieved by simply unbolting the flange from the gearbox & leaving it clamped on the shaft. 
Engine and gearbox should be removed together as one & then separated once out. 

[LakeBoy 111]

If it doesn't want to turn over, is it the starter motor?  Easy to unbolt and take for testing.

Can you get a breaker bar on the crank shaft and turn the motor by hand?  If there a compression release that would facilitate turning it by hand?

Is it possible the gear box is what is locked up?  

If it does turn over but will not fire & run, then did you and your friend bleed the fuel lines well?  Are the injectors (relatively) easily removed before pulling the whole motor?

 

[sailman 412]

In my younger days I helped a friend take is 1GM out.  Did it all by hand at the dock.  They don’t weigh that much.

[ryley 682]

3 hours ago, donderbalkie said:

Hello All,

I'm not sure if I'm posting this in the right place, but you guys have always had sound advice, and have been tolerant of my ignorance, so I hope it's okay.

Also, just to give you an idea of what I'm dealing with.  I have a 1977 O'Day 27 Sailboat.  The inboard diesel is a 2006 Yanmar 1GM10.

So I've tried everything to get someone to come look at why my inboard diesel won't start.  A family friend who knows way more than I do (shocker, I know) came to help me on numerous occasions without success. The guy I found on Craigslist couldn't fix it, and still charged me $60 for coming out.  I then called a company that will come to you with a van and every tool packed away inside, but they said they don't work on small sailboats because it's just too difficult to move around inside them.

I guessed that the fuel was bad (it sat for a while during the pandemic), so I disconnected the fuel line and ran some fresh diesel which also didn't work.  I am sick of the boat yoga and nothing working, plus now my engine bay is a mess and I just want to take it out and mount it on the hard and try to fix it there a few last times before I inevitably take it to a diesel mechanic to fix it for me. 

I've already replaced the batteries, gave it an oil change, replaced the oil filter and fuel filter as well as the Racor.  Still doesn't want to turn over.

What I need to know is if it is even possible for me to remove this engine while docked.  I've seen tons of videos online of people doing it, but never a start to finish time-lapse video I can follow step by step. I am a novice in all things sailing and am afraid water will start gushing in as soon as I unbolt it and begin to try and hoist it out.  Is that a possibility?  Are there precautions I need to take to ensure it doesn't happen?  Any of you old salts able to dispense some much appreciated wisdom, or recommend some good literature or video to aid me in this endeavor?  Thank you all in advance.  

Hey donderbalkie, I just did this very thing this past summer on my Columbia. Now, my situation may be a little different because the engine is in a cockpit compartment and I had a sail drive, so you will have a bit more trouble. However, the long and short of it is that it's pretty easy if you have any room to move down below at all. The engine is only about 150 lbs.

The electrical connections pretty much consist of the temp sensor, pressure sensor, the connections to the alternator and to the starter. take pictures and mark the wires so you don't forget any when you put it back together. On mine I had to remove the alternator to get to the starter wires. 

The plumbing is even simpler - just close the seacock and remove the hose from the water pump. If you can't get the exhaust hose off, just unbolt the assembly from the manifold.

Mark the shifter/throttle cables to reduce the amount of adjustment you need to do after. unbolt your shaft coupling. The hard part will be your engine mounts if you don't have enough room to lift the engine off them, you'll have to figure out whether they are through-bolted or lag bolted and whether you can get to them.

the 1gm10 is a pretty simple engine. with mine, the head was cracked (among other things) that made it impossible to start due to the resultant low compression. We got the engine out in about an hour and a half, two of us carried it up to my car and we dropped it at the shop. I was able to reinstall it myself. 

If you get the engine to a place where you can use a purchase from your boom, don't worry about the weight. I found a 6:1 adequate for one person, or a 4:1 that you can get to a winch is fine too.

Good luck!

[European Bloke 861]

3 hours ago, El Borracho said:

 

Close the seacock first, if it still works. 

This is the kind of advice that money can't buy.

[SloopJonB 12,552]

I swapped a Yanmar YSM 8 at the dock.

Make sure you have a halyard attached to the engine before you transfer it from boat to dock.

Clean & paint the engine space while it's out - it's a rare opportunity.

[MiddayGun 352]

Best part is they fit into the boot of practically an car. (sorry Trunk)

 

[Zonker 5,230]

OK, I'd try to get it running at the dock because it's a very simple engine.

1) you've provided it with clean fuel from a separate supply. Good start.
2) you must bleed it once you open up the fuel supply
3) HAVE YOU CHECKED THE STOP CABLE connection at the injection pump?? If it is pulled out, it closes off the fuel supply and it will crank happily but won't start. A craigslist land mechanic wouldn't know about it. Car diesels typically have a solenoid stop valve that closes off the fuel supply.
4) Have you changed the fuel filter on the engine?

Removal:
1) close seacock; remove salt water hose connected to the sea water pump on the front of the engine
2) remove fuel hose (both supply hose to engine mounted fuel filter, and return hose at the fuel injector)
3) remove starter battery cable
4) unclip electrical harness. Maybe it has a quick connection with a single multi conductor plug
5) remove exhaust hose connection
6) unbolt prop shaft coupling from gearbox
7) unscrew the nuts holding the engine on the rubber mounts. You want to lift the engine off the mounts but keep them bolted to the engine beds if possible. Leave the lower nut in place (under the engine mounting bracket).
9) Lift the engine off the mounts (about 1-2" vertical height raise). You may need to use a few long 2x4s as levers or a small car bottle jack.
     Drag the engine into the cabin.
10) Use the mainsheet tackle as a lifting tackle. You might need to shift it forward on the boom. Tie the main halyard above the lifting point to support the boom.
11) Lift the engine out of the companionway and lower into cockpit.
12) Lower into a wheelbarrow on the dock. Have some blocks of wood to support the engine off the oil pan if possible.

For steps 9-12 it would be wise to have  a helper.

Me - raising a heavier 3GM30F into our boat. This mainsheet tackle was 8:1 which made it super easy.

 

[SloopJonB 12,552]

6) unbolt prop shaft coupling from gearbox

Zonk, you must have worked writing Clymer car manuals - you make it sound so simple.

The last time I did that took more than a week.

[wick 50]

10 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

6) unbolt prop shaft coupling from gearbox

Zonk, you must have worked writing Clymer car manuals - you make it sound so simple.

The last time I did that took more than a week.

^^^ Couple of days anyway. Not something that is done repeatedly.

-  get a puller to have on hand and lots of ways to lube it up. This is backwards from what you have on the Cat27 as it is a V drive. 

[DDW 1,067]

I wouldn't be in such a hurry to pull it out. If it turns over, has compression, then it should start even if it doesn't run very well. Debugging it in your garage you will have to bolt it down, supply fuel and return somehow, battery cables, electrical panel as required, water supply and disposal - all just duplicating what is already in place on board. And if the real problem is the fuel supply (which is still in the boat) you've gotten nowhere. 

Does it turn over?

Does it have compression? 

Bleed fuel system and make sure fuel is being supplied to the pump?

Pull the injector and test it or have it tested?

Pull the injector pump and have it tested?

Now, if it doesn't turn at all or has no compression then probably it's going to come out anyway. But if it has those things it is as likely to run in place as in your garage, skipping a lot of work. And maybe it is so cramped you can't get to anything to check it, but in that case it may be extra hard to remove too. 

If it will spin with the starter and has compression, it can be started on a spray of WD40. Then you know it is a fuel problem. 

[ryley 682]

25 minutes ago, DDW said:

I wouldn't be in such a hurry to pull it out. If it turns over, has compression, then it should start even if it doesn't run very well. Debugging it in your garage you will have to bolt it down, supply fuel and return somehow, battery cables, electrical panel as required, water supply and disposal - all just duplicating what is already in place on board. And if the real problem is the fuel supply (which is still in the boat) you've gotten nowhere. 

Does it turn over?

Does it have compression? 

Bleed fuel system and make sure fuel is being supplied to the pump?

Pull the injector and test it or have it tested?

Pull the injector pump and have it tested?

Now, if it doesn't turn at all or has no compression then probably it's going to come out anyway. But if it has those things it is as likely to run in place as in your garage, skipping a lot of work. And maybe it is so cramped you can't get to anything to check it, but in that case it may be extra hard to remove too. 

If it will spin with the starter and has compression, it can be started on a spray of WD40. Then you know it is a fuel problem. 

or, you could take the hour to pull the engine, bring it to a marine diesel specialist. and write a check

Please don't start a 1gm10 on wd40 - it's really easy to get a bang that will bend a rod. ask me how I know.

Everything DDW said is true, but when I brought it to Cloutman they were set up to bench run it, in a workshop with every tool and spare part in reach.

I would have gone through everything DDW said and still ended up pulling the engine so they could find this:

 

[harrygee 73]

In the unlikely event that you have a PSS or similar dripless seal on your propellor shaft, where it exits the hull, be aware that the dripless seal will drip if you move the engine.

But I'm with the others above, preaching the need to check everything you can while the engine is in place.

Does the engine crank ok on the starter motor?  Can you hand crank it?  Fuel etc.

[El Borracho 2,612]

Thread is now 15 hours old. Engine is now out and in a proper shop, right? I have had my four banger out, torn down, reassembled, re-installed in three days. Not a big deal, really. 
 

[Leeroy Jenkins 474]

Did it on my first boat at the dock.  Learned a ton doing it too. 

[Bump-n-Grind 2,643]

yeah this thread really needs time lapse video of the dieselectomy!! 

 

I'm still of opinion, which is worth eggzackley what your paying for it, that this thing can most likely be either fixed or diagnosed to the point of replacement whilst still in the boat. However a thorough set of picks of engine room .... just so we can heckle you some more... might prove useful for our armchair diagnostics.

[SloopJonB 12,552]

5 hours ago, wick said:

^^^ Couple of days anyway. Not something that is done repeatedly.

-  get a puller to have on hand and lots of ways to lube it up. This is backwards from what you have on the Cat27 as it is a V drive. 

That's exactly what I had - I gained about 1/8" per hour of heating & lubing & wrenching on that fucker.

The next owner will get a perfect slip fit.

[Zonker 5,230]

I agree that getting a coupling off the SHAFT can be a huge HEADACHE. But why is it hard to break it free from the gearbox coupling.? Just the rust on the spigot? 

[The great unwashed 382]

I’m still not clear if the engine even turns over, which is kind of important information….

[Son of Hans 53]

Right; there are lots of things I would want to try before pulling the engine!  The OP says it doesn't turn over, and most of the things that would cause that can be fixed without extraction.  Does it even try to turn over (does the solenoid click, does the starter motor try to turn)?  If not, the problem is not with the engine itself.  If it does try but doesn't succeed, will it turn over with the compression lever released?  Can you turn it by hand?  The 1GM10 does have a hand crank feature, so it should be possible.  If you can't turn it, there may be some corrosion in the bore causing the rings to stick, and if it's not too serious a breaker bar on the crank pulley might crack it loose.  Squirting some kerosene or diesel into the cylinder and letting it sit for a few days first might help.  If none of these work, then it's time to plan for removal.  Now, if it turns over, but won't start, that's a different set of issues!

[DDW 1,067]

On 12/19/2021 at 12:19 AM, Zonker said:

I agree that getting a coupling off the SHAFT can be a huge HEADACHE. But why is it hard to break it free from the gearbox coupling.? Just the rust on the spigot? 

V-drive? So the coupler has to come off to remove the engine? My last sailboat was like that....

[Zonker 5,230]

Well I'm sure a 1GM ain't hooked up to any V-drive. V-drives can be horrible for access.

[Irrational 14 414]

On 12/18/2021 at 5:40 PM, ryley said:

or, you could take the hour to pull the engine, bring it to a marine diesel specialist. and write a check

Please don't start a 1gm10 on wd40 - it's really easy to get a bang that will bend a rod. ask me how I know.

Everything DDW said is true, but when I brought it to Cloutman they were set up to bench run it, in a workshop with every tool and spare part in reach.

I would have gone through everything DDW said and still ended up pulling the engine so they could find this:

 

Overheated? Damn.

[DDW 1,067]

2 hours ago, Zonker said:

Well I'm sure a 1GM ain't hooked up to any V-drive. V-drives can be horrible for access.

Could be, but the picture referenced is a V drive. Perhaps a red herring.

[SloopJonB 12,552]

2 hours ago, Zonker said:

Well I'm sure a 1GM ain't hooked up to any V-drive. V-drives can be horrible for access.

I've got a 2GM on a V.

Absolutely no need for it either - just some stupid "maybe it will be microscopically faster" theory that cursed all future owners.

And cost the original owner a bundle too.

[wick 50]

1 hour ago, DDW said:

Could be, but the picture referenced is a V drive. Perhaps a red herring.

I’m sorry, didn’t mean to confuse with that picture of my v-drive. Was just commiserating with the sometimes hassle of pulling some parts. I did mention that the OP shouldn’t have the same flange problem on his 27’er.

I do agree with all the recommendations to fix it on the boat wherever possible. 

[PaulinVictoria 101]

I swapped out a dead 1GM10 with a nice working one on my C&C27 at the dock. By far the biggest pain was separating the coupling as the bolts were rusted up. It took about a month of penetrating fluid, tapping etc to finally get them all out. The engine removal was easy, I had to unbolt the mounts from the beds, but it was all pretty simple. Used the boom as a crane to hoist it up and out. I also accurately measured the height of all the mounts on the old engine before reassembly, allowed me to get the alignment pretty much perfect right off the bat when putting the new one in and saved a ton of time messing about stuffed under the cockpit.

However, try and fix it in the boat first. Lots of good suggestions here, it's a simple engine, what is lacking is good info as to what you've actually tried.