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Observing the trends and current foiling ambitions of many future competitive boat designers/builders from short course to offshore racing categories, and without knowing anything about the actual Rules myself... A quick question:

Do ANY of the current Competition Rules state a minimum Permanently wetted surface area requirement of a planing hull+appendages design??

It strikes me that There is a fine line between Planing and Ground effect aviation and the design cross overs fascinate me.

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The closest I can think of is the Classic division of the A class cats. They can have C foils but aren't allowed to foil, apart from the occasional "accident" where the boat lifts out. I can't remember the exact wording of the rule.

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I wish i were better at math..  
Theoretical physics is fine but confirming ideas on paper first is way cheaper and safer than trial and error prototype test and development. 
Surely there is more designing being done to allow mere mortals the ability to “GESail” (GroundEffectSail)? 
Think foiling but once up,retract the foils... Or Windsurfing a hoverboard/pod:-D

(The Hyrdo and aerofoil area to weight to drag design math is beyond my old Casio324 digital abacus...)

https://newatlas.com/aircraft/regent-seaglider-ground-effect/

And this from another thread:

 

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3 minutes ago, FixinGit said:

“Newton,Einstein and Bernoulli...Paging Albert, Isaac and Daniel to the front counter ASAP Please”...

Rum is needed for this.

So we need to create a cushion......

Trailing edge flaps on a moth wings?

Wings with a duct in the leading edges which exhaust under the wings?

Duct/exhaust on a cat platform with the hulls contributing by maintaining a "seal"?

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1 minute ago, Ease the sheet. said:

So we need to create a cushion......

Trailing edge flaps on a moth wings?

Wings with a duct in the leading edges which exhaust under the wings?

Duct/exhaust on a cat platform with the hulls contributing by maintaining a "seal"?

Venturi principals whilst avoiding all thoughts of hovercraft skirts..;-) 

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1 hour ago, Ease the sheet. said:

Just trying to keep the weight down....

I agree,

Following your weight reduction principles i shall have to use a lighter stunt double in my own place for testing..

The words ‘Humungous’ and ‘Rotund’ are not traditionally found in many aerodynamic or race optimising studies.. :-)

Except with the Ekranoplans that thing is humungous! 

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13 hours ago, quod umbra said:

Good point by the OP. At some point in time in the near not too distant future, someone is going to ask for a rating for a foiler under ORC, IRC, PHRF, etc.
Then what happens?

In IRC anyway, if someone asks for a rating they'd get one. They are unlikely to like it.

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16 minutes ago, Sidecar said:

The one I posted above is a small one……. They were/are a big thing in Russia.

 

15985575-BAE4-4F37-BEC9-D62FB8C3F6A6.jpeg

88A025A1-5B33-4CF9-9CEA-395BDFA42FBB.jpeg

Like the Antonov, they didnt mess around. I think their engineers scales went from ‘Hectic’ to ‘Holy Fuck!’ Once the Theory was mathed out.

 

 

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OK, you wanna design a WIG/GESail vessel.

Where does your lateral resistance come from? One of the problems with hovercraft is that they don't steer too well, the only way to go around a corner is to aim your propulsion to one side or the other.

Where does your righting moment come from?

I think for the last iteration of the America's Cup they were already designing hulls to provide lift, just so as to reduce the amount of foil needed in the water at speed. But AFAIK there is no rule addressing the minimum foil needed, nor is any needed. That's dictated by the laws of physics and the cleverness of the designers and skill of the sailors.

- DSK

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3 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

OK, you wanna design a WIG/GESail vessel.

Where does your lateral resistance come from? One of the problems with hovercraft is that they don't steer too well, the only way to go around a corner is to aim your propulsion to one side or the other.

Where does your righting moment come from?

I think for the last iteration of the America's Cup they were already designing hulls to provide lift, just so as to reduce the amount of foil needed in the water at speed. But AFAIK there is no rule addressing the minimum foil needed, nor is any needed. That's dictated by the laws of physics and the cleverness of the designers and skill of the sailors.

- DSK

Hydrohook developscr

 Righting Moment an Latwteral resistancem. See sailrocket

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7 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

OK, you wanna design a WIG/GESail vessel.

Where does your lateral resistance come from? One of the problems with hovercraft is that they don't steer too well, the only way to go around a corner is to aim your propulsion to one side or the other.

Where does your righting moment come from?

I think for the last iteration of the America's Cup they were already designing hulls to provide lift, just so as to reduce the amount of foil needed in the water at speed. But AFAIK there is no rule addressing the minimum foil needed, nor is any needed. That's dictated by the laws of physics and the cleverness of the designers and skill of the sailors.

- DSK

Exactly, i think the last Americas cup Boats and that Genre of foiling performance and engineering is where i think offshore race design is also heading in the very near future(C foils are already there). Whether that is a good or bad thing is a matter of opinion. Personally, i’m more of a traditionalist and found after watching the last AC for about an 10mins found it akin to F1(Fantastic tech design and construction operated by specifically trained atheletes.) Once my initial awe at the Design and performance of the boats regarding TWS and AWS had settled(approx 10mins) i was left thinking: “F1 pond racers”... Not attainable sailing for the likes of me and closer to aviation in many ways.. But it also had me thinking about how/if these kind of design principles would actually translate to offshore performance... Weather and seastate being the two largest differential hurdles to the these AC boats and their foiling ilk... This inturn to me to theorising on foil to GroundEffect transition and the physics there of....This inturn led me to think: Does current Sail Racing Rule actually mention Mandatory permanent minimum wetted surface area?... Then i posted this thread, hence the OP.. 
The force control and manoeuvrability questions you pose are the things that fascinate me. 
Just as i appreciate that sailing knowledge led to flight the traditionalist in me wants things like Ailerons,Flaps,yaw,pitchand roll control yokes and ‘Launch parameters’ kept out of sailing... I also think thats why the TwoHanded and solo sailing categories are becoming more popular...Because they are a more attainable/relatable challenge to mere mortals like myself. 
 

 

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4 hours ago, fastyacht said:

Hydrohook developscr

 Righting Moment an Latwteral resistancem. See sailrocket

What's the name of the foil that's mounted on an arm directly coupled to the sail via wishboom? "Bxxxx Blade" alliterative, can't remember now. SailRocket is basically the ultimate develpoment of this concept. At one point, there were a bunch of sailing canoes/kayaks using these, some sailed the Everglades Challenge.

Anyway, it's clearly detrimental to speed to be dragging a hull around thru the water!

- DSK

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So, all hail Vestas Sailrocket, and her mad crazy hero pilot, I think the most extreme example of the 'how little crap in the water can I get away with' question.

For us mere mortals, the A Cat lowrider class is a great place to play with foil assist, without getting a nosebleed, or loosing any major body parts.  You can optimise a low volume boat with much foil assist, and race against optimised low drag no lift foil sets, and everything in-between, run what you brung, and show me your's is better, or shut up.  It's no place for vaporware, or bullshitters, and you have to go upwind and downwind too, not just blast about on reaches. The rule is the same as the open foiling class, except no daggerboards any more tortured than C boards are allowed, and a minimum of one hull in the water at all times, apart from occasional accidental bunny hops.  Come and play.

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2 hours ago, FixinGit said:

Exactly, i think the last Americas cup Boats and that Genre of foiling performance and engineering is where i think offshore race design is also heading in the very near future(C foils are already there). Whether that is a good or bad thing is a matter of opinion. Personally, i’m more of a traditionalist and found after watching the last AC for about an 10mins found it akin to F1(Fantastic tech design and construction operated by specifically trained atheletes.) Once my initial awe at the Design and performance of the boats regarding TWS and AWS had settled(approx 10mins) i was left thinking: “F1 pond racers”... Not attainable sailing for the likes of me and closer to aviation in many ways.. But it also had me thinking about how/if these kind of design principles would actually translate to offshore performance... Weather and seastate being the two largest differential hurdles to the these AC boats and their foiling ilk... This inturn to me to theorising on foil to GroundEffect transition and the physics there of....This inturn led me to think: Does current Sail Racing Rule actually mention Mandatory permanent minimum wetted surface area?... Then i posted this thread, hence the OP.. 
The force control and manoeuvrability questions you pose are the things that fascinate me. 
Just as i appreciate that sailing knowledge led to flight the traditionalist in me wants things like Ailerons,Flaps,yaw,pitchand roll control yokes and ‘Launch parameters’ kept out of sailing... I also think thats why the TwoHanded and solo sailing categories are becoming more popular...Because they are a more attainable/relatable challenge to mere mortals like myself. 
 

 

There was talk about the 'keel' on the AC boats being shape to create an endplate effect with the water surface.

You could shape the sides of the hull to compress any pressure between the water and the hull.

So yes, AC boats may be the start of something.

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23 minutes ago, Ease the sheet. said:

There was talk about the 'keel' on the AC boats being shape to create an endplate effect with the water surface.

You could shape the sides of the hull to compress any pressure between the water and the hull.

So yes, AC boats may be the start of something.

Indeed, from planing hulls and Legendary ‘WingedKeel controversies’ to Carbon Kevlar hull foil appendages.. Its all interesting, i am right now theorising on ways to induce and control supercavitation without the use of Rocketfuel or huge HP...

Perhaps Harmonic resonance induction +\~ Compressed gas..?... Hmmm

PhukFriction..:D

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30 minutes ago, FixinGit said:

Indeed, from planing hulls and Legendary ‘WingedKeel controversies’ to Carbon Kevlar hull foil appendages.. Its all interesting, i am right now theorising on ways to induce and control supercavitation without the use of Rocketfuel or huge HP...

Perhaps Harmonic resonance induction +\~ Compressed gas..?... Hmmm

PhukFriction..:D

Carbuncles!

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52 minutes ago, fastyacht said:

My favorir surface effect sailboat was the Charles Heidsic somrhing. Wascit Tabarly prvtjecother guy?  The akas were b24 liberator wing imotations and the amas had surf poerce foils

Champagne Bubbles and Davis wing you say? 
 

Cord multiplied by something equals GE altitude or sumfing?.. I forget. 

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1 hour ago, fastyacht said:

My favorir surface effect sailboat was the Charles Heidsic somrhing. Wascit Tabarly prvtjecother guy?  The akas were b24 liberator wing imotations and the amas had surf poerce foils

Foiling: the history of the hydrofoiler - Yachting World   ?

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1 hour ago, fastyacht said:

My favorir surface effect sailboat was the Charles Heidsic somrhing. Wascit Tabarly prvtjecother guy?  The akas were b24 liberator wing imotations and the amas had surf poerce foils

or maybe this one...

Charles Heidsieck, trimaran, Foils, | SegelReporter

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21 hours ago, Ease the sheet. said:

There was talk about the 'keel' on the AC boats being shape to create an endplate effect with the water surface.

You could shape the sides of the hull to compress any pressure between the water and the hull.

So yes, AC boats may be the start of something.

if it weren’t for the bow and sectional rules on the AC75’s, I am sure that they would all have had tunnel hull scow fuselages:
http://chevaliertaglang.blogspot.com/2021/04/36th-americas-cup-analysis-of-te.html

 

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1 hour ago, Sidecar said:

if it weren’t for the bow and sectional rules on the AC75’s, I am sure that they would all have had tunnel hull scow fuselages:
http://chevaliertaglang.blogspot.com/2021/04/36th-americas-cup-analysis-of-te.html

 

Its is a beautiful piece of design and engineering.

Adding the Cyclors/exercise bike/pedal grinders was a touch of class and smarts also in 2017(Tim Meldrum??)
The Rule change to ban them from the AC shows a definite sentimental mooring line cleated to certain sailing traditions...Maybe?.. 

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2 hours ago, Sidecar said:

if it weren’t for the bow and sectional rules on the AC75’s, I am sure that they would all have had tunnel hull scow fuselages:
http://chevaliertaglang.blogspot.com/2021/04/36th-americas-cup-analysis-of-te.html

 

The mention of frontal area is interesting.

And obvious.

They are more plane than boat.......

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On 12/26/2021 at 9:27 PM, FixinGit said:

It strikes me that There is a fine line between Planing and Ground effect........

Not this Again.......

Please step away from the Eggnog, left over Rum Punch or whatever mind altering substance you have stumbled into. ;)

Go read the AC forums on foils and hull designs and you will readily discover that Ground Effect is complete bunkum and fanciful bullshit.

Well intentioned but bogus.

Those seeking for earlier lift off and flight in ultra light conditions would be both rule constrained and dog slow by about 12 knots TWS. Where Drag minimisation and extra rig power would come to the fore.

Getting the air to do all the fancy hull lift would conveniently forget that the upper surface of the deck also needs to endplate the job and main for maximum efficiency. As soon as you try to mix high and low pressure areas that you are seeking, requires creation of the laws of physics "magic bullet".

That is why slippery low drag solutions and flying as close to the water without touching was the winning formula (along with a thousand other items) in AC monos.

Not trying to rain on your parade, just steer you away from the Doug Lord style of nonsense. 

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58 minutes ago, Boink said:

Not this Again.......

Please step away from the Eggnog, left over Rum Punch or whatever mind altering substance you have stumbled into. ;)

Go read the AC forums on foils and hull designs and you will readily discover that Ground Effect is complete bunkum and fanciful bullshit.

Well intentioned but bogus.

Those seeking for earlier lift off and flight in ultra light conditions would be both rule constrained and dog slow by about 12 knots TWS. Where Drag minimisation and extra rig power would come to the fore.

Getting the air to do all the fancy hull lift would conveniently forget that the upper surface of the deck also needs to endplate the job and main for maximum efficiency. As soon as you try to mix high and low pressure areas that you are seeking, requires creation of the laws of physics "magic bullet".

That is why slippery low drag solutions and flying as close to the water without touching was the winning formula (along with a thousand other items) in AC monos.

Not trying to rain on your parade, just steer you away from the Doug Lord style of nonsense. 

No one here believes a boat can become totally dependent on ground effect.......

Of course anything that fast and that close to the ground has to have some "interference" reaction.

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Look carefully at the two iterations of Sailrocket and you will see the importance of taking account of the interaction--and just how much more speed came from getting it right!

Fundamentally, you have to use hydro to counter all the aero. IF you are truly going to get going, the aero is going to more than outweigh the weight of the structure--as a by product of lift. Trying to solve two different problems is inefficient but sufficient to go pretty damn fast --  see Hydroptère. Ultimately though the trick is to find a way to build a controallable tackable hydrohook that works offshore. That is the ultimate.

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3 hours ago, Boink said:

Not this Again.......

Please step away from the Eggnog, left over Rum Punch or whatever mind altering substance you have stumbled into. ;)

Go read the AC forums on foils and hull designs and you will readily discover that Ground Effect is complete bunkum and fanciful bullshit.

Well intentioned but bogus.

Those seeking for earlier lift off and flight in ultra light conditions would be both rule constrained and dog slow by about 12 knots TWS. Where Drag minimisation and extra rig power would come to the fore.

Getting the air to do all the fancy hull lift would conveniently forget that the upper surface of the deck also needs to endplate the job and main for maximum efficiency. As soon as you try to mix high and low pressure areas that you are seeking, requires creation of the laws of physics "magic bullet".

That is why slippery low drag solutions and flying as close to the water without touching was the winning formula (along with a thousand other items) in AC monos.

Not trying to rain on your parade, just steer you away from the Doug Lord style of nonsense. 

As all pilots of both powered and gliding aircraft already know, GE is far from ‘Bunkum’.. In normal ops powered aviation it is generally avoided or harnessed to aid Smooth take off and landing. In non powered flight the same with the exception of going for ‘low saves’ in Distance chasing flights.

Sure the Science may ALWAYS appear to be already done and therefore not worth pursuing by many. But if humans took that attitude always, progress would rely solely on accidental discovery 100%.. Theoretical exploration and hypothesising is fun,cheap and possibly meaningful... However, should you wish a limit to threads doing so on SA, drop the ED a note reporting such;-)

Otherwise keep sharing and perhaps we may collectively break Physics as we know it for the betterer.. :P :-D

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9 minutes ago, Ease the sheet. said:

Maximising aero lift leads to smaller foils......

Indeed.. And Lower aspect ratio lifting foils are trickier to maintain stability of control.. 

Again the point of Aero/Hydro drag and friction is where i was when i went into full on Supercavitation induction on the foil surface to ease transition or remove the need for transition completely. But traditionally supercavitiation requires huge Force to mass ratio bias to achieve it.. Im currently investigating scaling options an pitfalls and any real world examples that maybe useful.. my current top 2 are Flagella activated springwhip colonies and my idea of harmonic resonance induced cavitation possibly utilising nano partical infused external coatings... 

So any progress is still early days yet..:lol:

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On 12/26/2021 at 11:27 PM, FixinGit said:

Do ANY of the current Competition Rules state a minimum Permanently wetted surface area requirement of a planing hull+appendages design??

How on earth could you police it?  

2044140684_BeneteauCup18JulesVidPicPro.com-4973.thumb.jpg.c4cdd10e39da4384c8ccf556eb7bf90b.jpg

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6 hours ago, Boink said:

Not this Again.......

Please step away from the Eggnog, left over Rum Punch or whatever mind altering substance you have stumbled into. ;)

Go read the AC forums on foils and hull designs and you will readily discover that Ground Effect is complete bunkum and fanciful bullshit.

Not trying to rain on your parade, just steer you away from the Doug Lord style of nonsense. 

 

2 hours ago, FixinGit said:

As all pilots of both powered and gliding aircraft already know, GE is far from ‘Bunkum’.......

OK, So there are a few takeaways here.....

Firstly I am NOT saying Ground Effect is Bunkum, I am saying Ground Effect in monohull Sailboats IS Bunkum. Hull Area; Distribution of Area of a hull is too much orientated longitudinally than athwartships and there is never any meaningful skirts or endplates to trap the cushion effect. A-class cats get the closest to fulfilling the requirements,but still don't...... Powerboat racing cats in the 90's definitely headed down this route, but haven't followed them since and they are not sailboats.

And quoting unrelated machines e.g. Gliders, does not mean that their characteristics translate. I countersteer my sportsbike into bends and roundabouts, but I don't helm the same way. I have Scandinavian flicked my WRX into corners, but again I don't steer round marks like that in a sailboat either.

Secondly, if you are going to have to have every minutia explained to you, then this conversation is going to get very old, quickly.

Thirdly, you clearly haven't read ANY of the posts I suggested. So Thanks for that........ 

Forthly, your evangelical "Born again Christian" response will (hopefully) be tempered when you have read the literal thousands of posts that have covered why ground effect does exist, but does not apply to sailboats......

If the finest minds in AC design have been unable to crack it over more than 10 years, access to actual supercomputing, and tremendous research budgets, then have at it, a bright future awaits you........ Follow those bright lights and inner voices petal.

5thly, your mind altering substance is still clearly in play, so condolences to whomever's company you are keeping...

OR

Is that you Doug.......?

Nurse! Nurse!

Dougie has been on the internet unsupervised again......:P

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42 minutes ago, Boink said:

 

OK, So there are a few takeaways here.....

Firstly I am NOT saying Ground Effect is Bunkum, I am saying Ground Effect in monohull Sailboats IS Bunkum. Hull Area; Distribution of Area of a hull is too much orientated longitudinally than athwartships and there is never any meaningful skirts or endplates to trap the cushion effect. A-class cats get the closest to fulfilling the requirements,but still don't...... Powerboat racing cats in the 90's definitely headed down this route, but haven't followed them since and they are not sailboats.

And quoting unrelated machines e.g. Gliders, does not mean that their characteristics translate. I countersteer my sportsbike into bends and roundabouts, but I don't helm the same way. I have Scandinavian flicked my WRX into corners, but again I don't steer round marks like that in a sailboat either.

Secondly, if you are going to have to have every minutia explained to you, then this conversation is going to get very old, quickly.

Thirdly, you clearly haven't read ANY of the posts I suggested. So Thanks for that........ 

Forthly, your evangelical "Born again Christian" response will (hopefully) be tempered when you have read the literal thousands of posts that have covered why ground effect does exist, but does not apply to sailboats......

If the finest minds in AC design have been unable to crack it over more than 10 years, access to actual supercomputing, and tremendous research budgets, then have at it, a bright future awaits you........ Follow those bright lights and inner voices petal.

5thly, your mind altering substance is still clearly in play, so condolences to whomever's company you are keeping...

OR

Is that you Doug.......?

Nurse! Nurse!

Dougie has been on the internet unsupervised again......:P

What the fuck are you babbling about?...

”Secondly, if you are going to have to have every minutia explained to you, then this conversation is going to get very old, quickly.” 

CLEARLY you think you are trying to school me with something?? 
But having reread your posts before replying, i’ll still be fucked if i can understand what Relevant points you made that I even asked about. And now your babbling on about motorcycle counter steer(get your knee down much?) and using pendulum effect to flick an AWD WRX into corners??...

“Forthly, your evangelical "Born again Christian" response will (hopefully) be tempered when you have read the literal thousands of posts that have covered why ground effect does exist, but does not apply to sailboats......” 

Well fuck me dead! Thats the first time in my life i’ve ever been accused of saying/writing anything Evangelic or Born again Christian...Hahahaha nice one...I aint gonna read the Thousands of previous posts about it.. Theres scientific papers written about it available..

I enjoy sailing, design,physics,Engineering,Aviation,Motorcycles,fabrication and having a beer or rum..  i enjoy theorising and imagining where the offshore designs are heading and the possibilities.. The main thing i wasnt sure about was the existing rules, which is why i asked here. 
 

Lighten the fuck up, enjoy life more, pull your head out of your arse,
Read my previous posts, workout who iam,where i’ll be and come call me ‘Petal’ in  person Darlin:wub:

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1 hour ago, Boink said:

Firstly I am NOT saying Ground Effect is Bunkum, I am saying Ground Effect in monohull Sailboats IS Bunkum. Hull Area; Distribution of Area of a hull is too much orientated longitudinally than athwartships and there is never any meaningful skirts or endplates to trap the cushion effect. A-class cats get the closest to fulfilling the requirements,but still don't...... Powerboat racing cats in the 90's definitely headed down this route, but haven't followed them since and they are not sailboats.

That's not to say it can't be designed.

 

1 hour ago, Boink said:

And quoting unrelated machines e.g. Gliders, does not mean that their characteristics translate. I countersteer my sportsbike into bends and roundabouts, but I don't helm the same way. I have Scandinavian flicked my WRX into corners, but again I don't steer round marks like that in a sailboat either

Quoting unrelated machines? Like motor bikes and rally cars?

 

Thinking that something that has less than 2% of it's surface area underwater is just a boat is missing something....

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1 hour ago, Ease the sheet. said:

That's not to say it can't be designed.

 

Quoting unrelated machines? Like motor bikes and rally cars?

 

Thinking that something that has less than 2% of it's surface area underwater is just a boat is missing something....

That's the point. It's only as relevant as quoting gliders for why Ground Effect is real or transferrable to sailboats.

That is to say not relevant or transferable at all. 

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6 minutes ago, Boink said:

That's the point. It's only as relevant as quoting gliders for why Ground Effect is real or transferrable to sailboats.

That is to say not relevant or transferable at all. 

Except that wasn't the point.

Quoting different vehicles to prove ground effect is real is not that same as saying those vehicles are like boats.

 

Methinks you've got a colon full of head.

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There are more ways of lifting a hull out of the water than ground effect. What about tilting the rig to windward - like a big, robot controlled windsurfer? All that has to remain in the water would be a daggerboard and the rudder. 

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On 12/29/2021 at 9:49 AM, fastyacht said:

My ice skates produce ground effects if I skate right off the pond.

Yeah, ummm... no. We don't want that kind

I wonder why we're talking about "ground effect" when we clearly want "water effect" anyway

- DSK

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On 12/29/2021 at 6:27 PM, FixinGit said:

 Come call me ‘Petal’ in  person Darlin:wub:

Well Petal, I'll call you whatever and whenever I like..... Deal with it 

Don't threaten people over being called out. It says more about your insecurities than mine.

As to your explaining and posts above - says it all really......

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1 hour ago, Boink said:

Well Petal, I'll call you whatever and whenever I like..... Deal with it 

Don't threaten people over being called out. It says more about your insecurities than mine.

As to your explaining and posts above - says it all really......

You felt threatened by my invitation?... That does uncover some of your insecurities now doesnt it?.. 

I thought by calling me ‘Petal’ you must have some sort of misplaced attraction to me?. Why else call me that?

“Called out”... An interesting synopsis... Explain your reasoning there please.. Cut and paste where i was “Called out”.  
 

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3 hours ago, Boink said:

Well Petal, I'll call you whatever and whenever I like..... Deal with it 

Don't threaten people over being called out. It says more about your insecurities than mine.

As to your explaining and posts above - says it all really......

You're a fucking idiot......

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15 hours ago, FixinGit said:

You felt threatened by my invitation?... That does uncover some of your insecurities now doesnt it?.. 

I thought by calling me ‘Petal’ you must have some sort of misplaced attraction to me?. Why else call me that?

“Called out”... An interesting synopsis... Explain your reasoning there please.. Cut and paste where i was “Called out”.  
 

You really don't get out much do you Petal?

And your memory loss is clearly presenting.

Early onset Dementia perhaps.....?

Now stick to your bold claims and show us all Ground Effect in Sailboats.....

I'll get the Popcorn and Drinks. This will be Good.......

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1 hour ago, Boink said:

You really don't get out much do you Petal?

And your memory loss is clearly presenting.

Early onset Dementia perhaps.....?

Now stick to your bold claims and show us all Ground Effect in Sailboats.....

I'll get the Popcorn and Drinks. This will be Good.......

What's his bold claim?

Go ahead and quote it

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1 hour ago, Ease the sheet. said:

What's his bold claim?

Go ahead and quote it

He can neither quote my Bold claims or quote my being “Called out” as they are fictitious..

You @Boinkhave come here, misunderstood everything the OP and subsequent posts were actually about. But thats ok, Thankfully due to my previous experience in work/business and general modern life,I understand some of the challenges involved in managing keyboard commandos with delusional conceptualisation issues.(See the info at the bottom of this post;-)

Having failed to comprehend this thread and then failing to provide actual evidence of the accusations you have levelled in your last couple of posts here AND taking into account your alleged feelings of Threat, i’m left with only one piece of advice for you @Boink:  

Ask/read around and Find me in real life and come chat(and call me Petal) in person i’ll buy you and your carer a coffee or beer. Otherwise feel free to take a very long walk off a short pier. I truly hope 2022 is a better year for you.
 

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