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Should there be a nut on this?


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This is the underside of a stanchion base and one of the spinaker sheet blocks on a new boat. Is it normal/expected to not see any kind of nuts on these bolts? I guess there might be something glassed in that these are screwed in to?

20211229_095436.jpg

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Cleats and winches, as well as the pulpit do all have nuts, other smaller fittings that I looked at (didn't pull out all the roof lining) look similar to this. I agree that since they are all like this it's unlikely to be a mistake.

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9 hours ago, Mek said:

This is the underside of a stanchion base and one of the spinaker sheet blocks on a new boat. Is it normal/expected to not see any kind of nuts on these bolts? I guess there might be something glassed in that these are screwed in to?

20211229_095436.jpg

well it looks like at least two of those bolts had washers on them previously...    clean up the threads and add some washers and nuts..  i mean that's a cheap fix as opposed to something being ripped out of the deck when you least want it to...      and like said before... call the builder..

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General rule of thumb (in metal) is that the length of engaged thread (in the plate or nut) should be equal to the diameter of the bolt, or better. I'd really want to know what was holding the threads shown esp the stanchion bolt.

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On 12/29/2021 at 8:44 PM, Grande Mastere Dreade said:

well it looks like at least two of those bolts had washers on them previously...    clean up the threads and add some washers and nuts..  i mean that's a cheap fix as opposed to something being ripped out of the deck when you least want it to...      and like said before... call the builder..

I dunno about that, to me that looks like ham fisted installer.  Bolt was hanging up partway, hit with hammer.  Results in a delamination in the glass around the bolt just like that.  Also if there's a backing plate in there and the hole wasn't quite lined up, when tightening it it will do that.

Whatever is in there, I'd feel better with some nuts myself.  

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I suppose it is conceivable that a builder could laminate some non-ferrous metal into the deck, then drill and tap it for placing hardware, but I can't imagine any builder making that choice.  It is costlier, slower and structurally inferior to a nut and a fender washer.  I spent a summer once bolting deck hardware onto production sailboats and there is no way we would have gone to that trouble.  In short, I'd get nuts and washers onto those puppies, pronto.

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15 hours ago, Son of Hans said:

I suppose it is conceivable that a builder could laminate some non-ferrous metal into the deck, then drill and tap it for placing hardware, but I can't imagine any builder making that choice.

 

13 hours ago, Zonker said:

No it's more common than you might think.

 

11 hours ago, ExOmo said:

it being no nuts/tapping plate?

Absolutely.  If properly designed, engineered, fabricated, and implemented, it's a speedy (and short-sighted) solution for attaching deck hardware.  At least Hunter used the technique on some of their builds.

Hell on future refits though.

No matter what, I'd be adding nuts and washers to the OP'd installation.

 

Cheers!

 

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21 hours ago, Son of Hans said:

I suppose it is conceivable that a builder could laminate some non-ferrous metal into the deck, then drill and tap it for placing hardware, but I can't imagine any builder making that choice.  It is costlier, slower and structurally inferior to a nut and a fender washer.  I spent a summer once bolting deck hardware onto production sailboats and there is no way we would have gone to that trouble.  In short, I'd get nuts and washers onto those puppies, pronto.

I'm actually fixing this on a boat just now.  Big 50ish powerboat.  Deck hatches were done with laminated in aluminium backing plates.  I'm guessing then drilled and tapped from the top in one shot.  Hinges are recessed, and it's a giant fuckery.  Has buckled the deck right into the nonskid from corrosion.  

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I've observed over many years that metal laminated in, for whatever reason, never ends well.

Aluminium and galvanized steel seem to be the worst but S/S can get crevice corrosion and fail while the glass laminate is unharmed.

It's a bad idea all around.

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3 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

I've observed over many years that metal laminated in, for whatever reason, never ends well.

Aluminium and galvanized steel seem to be the worst but S/S can get crevice corrosion and fail while the glass laminate is unharmed.

It's a bad idea all around.

friend had a yingling where the sidestays attached to a ring on the deck where the base of the ring was laminated into the deck , it worked until it didn't... 

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21 minutes ago, Grande Mastere Dreade said:

 it worked until it didn't... 

A corollary to "you always find what you're looking for in the last place you look"

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Hmmm interesting concept, it appears some production boatbuilders are letting the new owners finish the building the boat themselves.

Nuts and washers add up when you're cost cutting.

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Should you add nuts?? 
 Sure!! Why not?

I would add washers and nylon insert lock bits 

I would have somebody hold the top so the fasteners would not twist

If any of the fasteners move easily, spin it out, caulk it properly 

teist

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  • 1 month later...

late to the party but having just recently dealt with deck fittings that needed removal which were ss tapped into molded in alloy plates, may I recommend that you not only add nuts, nuts and washer, nuts washers and backing plates, you name it... but that you ALSO drill out the bonded in plate. If the ss bolts corrode themselves to the aluminum plate and you strip the head of the fastener trying to remove it then you're drilling out stainless... this is NOT fun.

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On 12/29/2021 at 2:44 PM, Zonker said:

Might be an aluminum tapping plate. If just 1 nut was missing, replace the nut, but 3 missing is deliberate on the part of the builder. 

Hopefully it isn't an Al plate with stainless fasteners!!

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On 1/2/2022 at 4:07 AM, CriticalPath said:

 

 

Absolutely.  If properly designed, engineered, fabricated, and implemented, it's a speedy (and short-sighted) solution for attaching deck hardware.  

You just bond in a chunk of g10. If it's 1/4-20's for jib track or other small stuff you drill your hole, chuck a tap in a cordless drill and power tap all of the holes in minutes. It's way faster than having two guys dicking around with nuts and bolts.  People don't realize how many things in this world are tapped with a machine, lathe or drill. Not by hand. If it's done properly you get better results than hand tapping. 

If you've got the stones and skill you can powertap masts with a cordless drill.

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