Mek 2 Posted December 29, 2021 Share Posted December 29, 2021 This is the underside of a stanchion base and one of the spinaker sheet blocks on a new boat. Is it normal/expected to not see any kind of nuts on these bolts? I guess there might be something glassed in that these are screwed in to? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Zonker 5,248 Posted December 29, 2021 Share Posted December 29, 2021 Might be an aluminum tapping plate. If just 1 nut was missing, replace the nut, but 3 missing is deliberate on the part of the builder. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
longy 855 Posted December 29, 2021 Share Posted December 29, 2021 There's a hint of a glassed in plate on the right of the pic - but without removing a fastener you're just guessing. What's under all the other deck fittings?? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mek 2 Posted December 29, 2021 Author Share Posted December 29, 2021 Cleats and winches, as well as the pulpit do all have nuts, other smaller fittings that I looked at (didn't pull out all the roof lining) look similar to this. I agree that since they are all like this it's unlikely to be a mistake. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IStream 3,422 Posted December 29, 2021 Share Posted December 29, 2021 I'd still pull at least the smaller fasteners to confirm the existence of a glassed in plate and to add TefGel to facilitate future disassembly. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
longy 855 Posted December 29, 2021 Share Posted December 29, 2021 ^^^ Hard to tell what the builder's concepts were if some do/some don't have washers/nuts. His standards may not be yours. Trust but verify just what the threads are gripping. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SloopJonB 12,631 Posted December 29, 2021 Share Posted December 29, 2021 Don't disturb the sealant - just put nuts on. I want my stanchions and spinnaker sheet blocks held by more than aluminium threads. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ctutmark 285 Posted December 29, 2021 Share Posted December 29, 2021 Hanse? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The great unwashed 384 Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 Nobody’s gonna say it? Ok, alright; “That’s what she said.” Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Diamond Jim 88 Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 ‘Ask the builder. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
some dude 201 Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 Maybe washers too if you're feeling frisky. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mckenzie.keith 133 Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 I am not saying you should remove the bolts/screws, but I am just asking, how hard would it be to unscrew them from above? If you unscrew the bolts or screws you will have a better idea what is going on. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
phill_nz 872 Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 looks to me like it had not only nuts .. but a plate as well regardless i would be making up a plate for it anyway Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Grande Mastere Dreade 4,171 Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 9 hours ago, Mek said: This is the underside of a stanchion base and one of the spinaker sheet blocks on a new boat. Is it normal/expected to not see any kind of nuts on these bolts? I guess there might be something glassed in that these are screwed in to? well it looks like at least two of those bolts had washers on them previously... clean up the threads and add some washers and nuts.. i mean that's a cheap fix as opposed to something being ripped out of the deck when you least want it to... and like said before... call the builder.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Blitz 125 Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 Bedded with 5200 no need for nuts? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
longy 855 Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 General rule of thumb (in metal) is that the length of engaged thread (in the plate or nut) should be equal to the diameter of the bolt, or better. I'd really want to know what was holding the threads shown esp the stanchion bolt. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Startracker 57 Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 On 12/29/2021 at 8:44 PM, Grande Mastere Dreade said: well it looks like at least two of those bolts had washers on them previously... clean up the threads and add some washers and nuts.. i mean that's a cheap fix as opposed to something being ripped out of the deck when you least want it to... and like said before... call the builder.. I dunno about that, to me that looks like ham fisted installer. Bolt was hanging up partway, hit with hammer. Results in a delamination in the glass around the bolt just like that. Also if there's a backing plate in there and the hole wasn't quite lined up, when tightening it it will do that. Whatever is in there, I'd feel better with some nuts myself. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Son of Hans 53 Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 I suppose it is conceivable that a builder could laminate some non-ferrous metal into the deck, then drill and tap it for placing hardware, but I can't imagine any builder making that choice. It is costlier, slower and structurally inferior to a nut and a fender washer. I spent a summer once bolting deck hardware onto production sailboats and there is no way we would have gone to that trouble. In short, I'd get nuts and washers onto those puppies, pronto. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Zonker 5,248 Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 No it's more common than you might think. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ExOmo 178 Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 1 hour ago, Zonker said: No it's more common than you might think. it being no nuts/tapping plate? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
CriticalPath 165 Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 15 hours ago, Son of Hans said: I suppose it is conceivable that a builder could laminate some non-ferrous metal into the deck, then drill and tap it for placing hardware, but I can't imagine any builder making that choice. 13 hours ago, Zonker said: No it's more common than you might think. 11 hours ago, ExOmo said: it being no nuts/tapping plate? Absolutely. If properly designed, engineered, fabricated, and implemented, it's a speedy (and short-sighted) solution for attaching deck hardware. At least Hunter used the technique on some of their builds. Hell on future refits though. No matter what, I'd be adding nuts and washers to the OP'd installation. Cheers! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Startracker 57 Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 21 hours ago, Son of Hans said: I suppose it is conceivable that a builder could laminate some non-ferrous metal into the deck, then drill and tap it for placing hardware, but I can't imagine any builder making that choice. It is costlier, slower and structurally inferior to a nut and a fender washer. I spent a summer once bolting deck hardware onto production sailboats and there is no way we would have gone to that trouble. In short, I'd get nuts and washers onto those puppies, pronto. I'm actually fixing this on a boat just now. Big 50ish powerboat. Deck hatches were done with laminated in aluminium backing plates. I'm guessing then drilled and tapped from the top in one shot. Hinges are recessed, and it's a giant fuckery. Has buckled the deck right into the nonskid from corrosion. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SloopJonB 12,631 Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 I've observed over many years that metal laminated in, for whatever reason, never ends well. Aluminium and galvanized steel seem to be the worst but S/S can get crevice corrosion and fail while the glass laminate is unharmed. It's a bad idea all around. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Grande Mastere Dreade 4,171 Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 3 hours ago, SloopJonB said: I've observed over many years that metal laminated in, for whatever reason, never ends well. Aluminium and galvanized steel seem to be the worst but S/S can get crevice corrosion and fail while the glass laminate is unharmed. It's a bad idea all around. friend had a yingling where the sidestays attached to a ring on the deck where the base of the ring was laminated into the deck , it worked until it didn't... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SloopJonB 12,631 Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 21 minutes ago, Grande Mastere Dreade said: it worked until it didn't... A corollary to "you always find what you're looking for in the last place you look" Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sailabout 169 Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 On 12/30/2021 at 10:12 AM, Diamond Jim said: ‘Ask the builder. Hanse dont answer questions.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Max Rockatansky 922 Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 I’d pull it out and go back with a G10 backing plate. Which can be tapped if you like. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Navig8tor 1,784 Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 Hmmm interesting concept, it appears some production boatbuilders are letting the new owners finish the building the boat themselves. Nuts and washers add up when you're cost cutting. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gouvernail 3,946 Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 Should you add nuts?? Sure!! Why not? I would add washers and nylon insert lock bits I would have somebody hold the top so the fasteners would not twist If any of the fasteners move easily, spin it out, caulk it properly teist 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
overdraft 44 Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 late to the party but having just recently dealt with deck fittings that needed removal which were ss tapped into molded in alloy plates, may I recommend that you not only add nuts, nuts and washer, nuts washers and backing plates, you name it... but that you ALSO drill out the bonded in plate. If the ss bolts corrode themselves to the aluminum plate and you strip the head of the fastener trying to remove it then you're drilling out stainless... this is NOT fun. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bgytr 505 Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 On 12/29/2021 at 2:44 PM, Zonker said: Might be an aluminum tapping plate. If just 1 nut was missing, replace the nut, but 3 missing is deliberate on the part of the builder. Hopefully it isn't an Al plate with stainless fasteners!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
CaptainAhab 210 Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 On 1/2/2022 at 4:07 AM, CriticalPath said: Absolutely. If properly designed, engineered, fabricated, and implemented, it's a speedy (and short-sighted) solution for attaching deck hardware. You just bond in a chunk of g10. If it's 1/4-20's for jib track or other small stuff you drill your hole, chuck a tap in a cordless drill and power tap all of the holes in minutes. It's way faster than having two guys dicking around with nuts and bolts. People don't realize how many things in this world are tapped with a machine, lathe or drill. Not by hand. If it's done properly you get better results than hand tapping. If you've got the stones and skill you can powertap masts with a cordless drill. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Zonker 5,248 Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 I certainly power tapped the mast for a spinnaker track. No way was I going to hand tap 14' of track. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jamhass 134 Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 I like this type of tap: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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