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Is this the final AC for NZ?


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I just do not see how NZ can continue to compete in the AC after taking the defense offshore.

More than any other country, New Zealand’s effort has been a major source of national pride and government support.  New Zealand has made a great deal of sacrifices and financial support to enable the team to compete over the years.  The objective of all this is to win the cup and hold the defense at home.  The whole country gets to celebrate and participate in the financial rewards.  It is tiny New Zealand flexing it’s power amongst all the countries in the world.  A significant accomplishment!

The taxpayers of NZ paid $250 million to host the last cup, but got cheated out of the tourism dollars and world acclaim because of Covid.  The government offered another $99 million for this cup.   All with the hopes of winning and hosting the cup.  No one could even imagine the possibility of not hosting the cup.

After all of this support and expectations, the team tells the people of NZ that they will not defend the cup at home.  All of the loyalty, support and trust has been thrown out the window in search of more money.  Money that is only needed because of the rules that the team themselves wrote.  
 

If NZ loses this next cup, who in NZ will ever trust or support the team for another run? The team can make as much promises as they want, but no one will ever trust them again.  Even if they win, support for a team that is just NZ by name will dwindle very quickly.  I doubt that the team will ever again gather the support they once had before deciding to take the cup offshore.  We all know that in order for New Zealand to be competitive in the cup, it truly has to be a national effort.

It is really sad how quickly the team has thrown away all of the glory they have gained over the last couple of decades.  The AC will survive, but unfortunately NZ will not be a part of it.

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4 minutes ago, The_Alchemist said:

I just do not see how NZ can continue to compete in the AC after taking the defense offshore.

More than any other country, New Zealand’s effort has been a major source of national pride and government support.  New Zealand has made a great deal of sacrifices and financial support to enable the team to compete over the years.  The objective of all this is to win the cup and hold the defense at home.  The whole country gets to celebrate and participate in the financial rewards.  It is tiny New Zealand flexing it’s power amongst all the countries in the world.  A significant accomplishment!

The taxpayers of NZ paid $250 million to host the last cup, but got cheated out of the tourism dollars and world acclaim because of Covid.  The government offered another $99 million for this cup.   All with the hopes of winning and hosting the cup.  No one could even imagine the possibility of not hosting the cup.

After all of this support and expectations, the team tells the people of NZ that they will not defend the cup at home.  All of the loyalty, support and trust has been thrown out the window in search of more money.  Money that is only needed because of the rules that the team themselves wrote.  
 

If NZ loses this next cup, who in NZ will ever trust or support the team for another run? The team can make as much promises as they want, but no one will ever trust them again.  Even if they win, support for a team that is just NZ by name will dwindle very quickly.  I doubt that the team will ever again gather the support they once had before deciding to take the cup offshore.  We all know that in order for New Zealand to be competitive in the cup, it truly has to be a national effort.

It is really sad how quickly the team has thrown away all of the glory they have gained over the last couple of decades.  The AC will survive, but unfortunately NZ will not be a part of it.

Stop being such a crybaby.

NZ brought the cup back to NZ without a cent of taxpayer funding, then hosted the defence at home and won.

If they run an underfunded defence at home and lose because of it, that will definitely be the end of the Team and the AC for NZ.

At least they give themselves a chance of winning, they give NZ the chance to host again - post Covid 19.

Its funny how foreigners with an axe to grind like to pretend they care for Kiwi's when they don't.

Shut up and let it play out and quit being a fucking crybaby.

 

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Well, in recent history, it does appear to be harder to Defend than to Challenge, that's for sure.

On the other hand, with a better batting average, TNZ has been pretty good at Challenging...and winning.

Either way, I suggest it would be neither a lack of technical ability, nor sailing prowess which might prevent New Zealand from future participation. The 'stumbling block' would be funding...just as it is right now.

But you might want to ask the Australians, for confirmation.

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1 hour ago, Sailbydate said:

Well, in recent history, it does appear to be harder to Defend than to Challenge, that's for sure.

On the other hand, with a better batting average, TNZ has been pretty good at Challenging...and winning.

Either way, I suggest it would be neither a lack of technical ability, nor sailing prowess which might prevent New Zealand from future participation. The 'stumbling block' would be funding...just as it is right now.

But you might want to ask the Australians, for confirmation.

That is part of the point.  By taking the defense offshore you lose your momentum and the home support.  My feeling is that it has dealt a death blow to future NZ AC efforts.

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I totally agree with the OP. Once the team steps on the plane, hopefully soon, that will be it. The team us up for sale, anyone with cash can buy the naming rights and the NZ part will become a piece of historic trivia. Again, the sooner the better.

I believe that defending in Auckland, with a decent PR job of how covid has meant an underfunded event, would have given a better chance of the team's survival. A loss at home, as the underdog, would have captivated Kiwis.

Instead they are just telling us money and (possibly) winning is far more important than any fan. That they are just a business after wealth and fortune, open to offers.

The cup and the team will never be part of NZ again once they leave. No new team will be trusted, ever.

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5 hours ago, The_Alchemist said:

By taking the defense offshore you lose your momentum and the home support.  

I'm not sure why you'd lose momentum when what you can test or sail when is in any case highly constrained in the protocol. As far as home support goes, Kiwi views evidently diverge on that. It's questionable how much it matters so long as other sponsors can be found. While Ineos and AM both tried beating the patriot drum in AC36, not many seemed to be listening, yet it seems they are back.

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47 minutes ago, dogwatch said:

 While Ineos and AM both tried beating the patriot drum in AC36, not many seemed to be listening, yet it seems they are back.

They haven't needed that groundswell of support so far because they have corporate/billionaire support. So you can either look at the ETNZ move offshore as betraying the country and people who have supported them so far and may well not again, or as them trying to tap into the sort of money sources that IUK and AM have so that they become more stable.

Time well tell. I'm still sceptical about Ireland or Spain finding enough money down the back of the sofa

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On 12/31/2021 at 4:28 AM, enigmatically2 said:

They haven't needed that groundswell of support so far because they have corporate/billionaire support. So you can either look at the ETNZ move offshore as betraying the country and people who have supported them so far and may well not again, or as them trying to tap into the sort of money sources that IUK and AM have so that they become more stable.

Time well tell. I'm still sceptical about Ireland or Spain finding enough money down the back of the sofa

The betraying part is what I am thinking.  The NZ effort has relied on national support more than any other team.

It is almost comical how so many turned their backs on the team members that accepted offers to sail for the teams (not loyal) and now you have those same people support a whole team that has sold out and leaves.  Kind of hard to claim all of the New Zealand technology if they just become a "non-NZ" team. 

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1 hour ago, The_Alchemist said:

The betraying part is what I am thinking.  The NZ effort has relied on national support more than any other team.

It is almost comical how so many turned their backs on the team members that accepted offers to sail for the teams (not loyal) and now you have those same people support a whole team that has sold out and leaves.  Kind of hard to claim all of the New Zealand technology if they just become a "non-NZ" team. 

Some folks will support Team Cork or Team Malaga or whatever, no matter the official branding name :) 

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1 hour ago, The_Alchemist said:

It is almost comical how so many turned their backs on the team members that accepted offers to sail for the teams (not loyal) and now you have those same people support a whole team that has sold out and leaves. 

Surprises me as well. I actually felt embarrassed at the treatment given to the 'traitors'.

They achieved great heights, disagreed with what was happening and moved on. So blackballed for being traitors. Now the whole team is doing the same thing, yet they are treated as saviours.

Apart from B&T. I wonder if, should they fail to sign up and support the move, they will be considered the traitors?

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3 hours ago, The_Alchemist said:

The betraying part is what I am thinking.  The NZ effort has relied on national support more than any other team.

It is almost comical how so many turned their backs on the team members that accepted offers to sail for the teams (not loyal) and now you have those same people support a whole team that has sold out and leaves.  Kind of hard to claim all of the New Zealand technology if they just become a "non-NZ" team. 

Difference being they competed against the team they left and took the cup away. Traitors.

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2 hours ago, Forourselves said:

Difference being they competed against the team they left and took the cup away. Traitors.

But it is all just business according to you. Surely leaving one company and joining another is standard behaviour. Or is everyone that changes job a traitor?

 

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7 hours ago, Gissie said:

But it is all just business according to you. Surely leaving one company and joining another is standard behaviour. Or is everyone that changes job a traitor?

 

This seems to be the one place where Kiwi moral flexibility runs into a wall.

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1 hour ago, pusslicker said:

This seems to be the one place where Kiwi moral flexibility runs into a wall.

I wasn't in NZ when this happened, but the vilification of Coutts and the others was appalling.

That those who had the pitchforks out for those guys can now, so easily, come up with so many justifications for the team to just up and leave. For the 40's to be built in China by an Aussie company without one complaint.

Oh, it is just a business, they cry. Yet at the same time it is a national team. Twisting everything to justify the unjustifiable. They would find it hard to lie straight in bed.

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10 hours ago, Gissie said:

But it is all just business according to you. Surely leaving one company and joining another is standard behaviour. Or is everyone that changes job a traitor?

 

If thats what they had said back then, then that would be fine. But for years, both Coutts and Butterworth publicly stated they "are proud Kiwi's and are proud of Team NZ and proud to represent NZ" only to switch teams and come back to NZ to take the cup away from NZ - something everyone knew was a foregone conclusion - was extremely disappointing, and deserved the reaction it got.

It would be like Richie McCaw, Dan Carter, Maá Nonu, Keven Mealamu and Aaron Smith winning the RWC, pulling on a Wallabies jersey and leading a Wallaby team back to NZ to beat the All Blacks for the same World cup they'd just won. That wouldn't go down well either.

ETNZ are still the same team they were in 2017 and 2021. Many NZ teams represent NZ overseas, Team NZ are no different. It is business. Business allows sport to proceed. If not for business, no professional sport would be able to happen in the world anywhere. International sport is big money business. Even Olympians need money to be able to compete. Many amateur Olympians go professional to allow themselves the ability to compete at Olympic level. But they represent their country at the olympics.

Whether its rugby, football, cricket, sailing, they all have national teams, The AB's, the Black Caps, ETNZ, they're all businesses yet all National teams, the fact they are run by National bodies is irrelevant. They still require international sponsorship. The Deed is the governing body of the AC, and ETNZ requires international sponsorship. The AB's are NZ's national team, as are the Black Caps, the Silver Ferns, and ETNZ. That has never, and will never change. Anyone who says otherwise simply doesn't understand NZ sport, or has a personal agenda - which is also irrelevant.

 

 

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24 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

If thats what they had said back then, then that would be fine. But for years, both Coutts and Butterworth publicly stated they "are proud Kiwi's and are proud of Team NZ and proud to represent NZ" only to switch teams and come back to NZ to take the cup away from NZ - something everyone knew was a foregone conclusion - was extremely disappointing, and deserved the reaction it got.

It would be like Richie McCaw, Dan Carter, Maá Nonu, Keven Mealamu and Aaron Smith winning the RWC, pulling on a Wallabies jersey and leading a Wallaby team back to NZ to beat the All Blacks for the same World cup they'd just won. That wouldn't go down well either.

ETNZ are still the same team they were in 2017 and 2021. Many NZ teams represent NZ overseas, Team NZ are no different. It is business. Business allows sport to proceed. If not for business, no professional sport would be able to happen in the world anywhere. International sport is big money business. Even Olympians need money to be able to compete. Many amateur Olympians go professional to allow themselves the ability to compete at Olympic level. But they represent their country at the olympics.

Whether its rugby, football, cricket, sailing, they all have national teams, The AB's, the Black Caps, ETNZ, they're all businesses yet all National teams, the fact they are run by National bodies is irrelevant. They still require international sponsorship. The Deed is the governing body of the AC, and ETNZ requires international sponsorship. The AB's are NZ's national team, as are the Black Caps, the Silver Ferns, and ETNZ. That has never, and will never change. Anyone who says otherwise simply doesn't understand NZ sport, or has a personal agenda - which is also irrelevant.

 

 

for a "national team", it seems like there's a lot of australians in key positions driving the ETNZ AC37 boat.

 

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1 hour ago, shebeen said:

for a "national team", it seems like there's a lot of australians in key positions driving the ETNZ AC37 boat.

 

To be fair though, the Australians won’t be driving the boat in New Zealand. 

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This is one of those irregular nouns isn't it, like:

We have agents, you have spies, they have traitors.

Similarly a kiwi who sails or plays for anyone else is a traitor. But Aussies sailing for the "national team" are naturalised kiwis, just the same as all those Pacific islanders playing rugby.All they need to do is wear that silver fern

Designed by Brits, funded by UAE, helmed by Australians, based somewhere else foreign. More of an international team than a national one

What odds the NZ flag on the chase boats is made in China?

But at least they give everything nice Maori names.

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10 minutes ago, enigmatically2 said:

This is one of those irregular nouns isn't it, like:

We have agents, you have spies, they have traitors.

Similarly a kiwi who sails or plays for anyone else is a traitor. But Aussies sailing for the "national team" are naturalised kiwis, just the same as all those Pacific islanders playing rugby.All they need to do is wear that silver fern

Designed by Brits, funded by UAE, helmed by Australians, based somewhere else foreign. More of an international team than a national one

What odds the NZ flag on the chase boats is made in China?

But at least they give everything nice Maori names.

Blah blah blah, no one cares about that bullshit. Unless you're a Kiwi you'll never understand.

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21 hours ago, The_Alchemist said:

Is that your vision of the next ABNZ boat?

The point is you are a troll, start a troll topic when this is well discussed elsewhere. 

Point is your topic is a pile of tepid Shit.

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3 hours ago, Monkey said:

To be fair though, the Australians won’t be driving the boat in New Zealand. 

No one will ever be driving the boat in Kiwi again. Certainly not in a race. 

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7 minutes ago, Gissie said:

No one will ever be driving the boat in Kiwi again. Certainly not in a race. 

Wrong. They will have lots of fun wowing the crowds with the hydrogen chase boats. Many will think that they are AC37 boats with stealth wings.

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11 minutes ago, NeedAClew said:

Wrong. They will have lots of fun wowing the crowds with the hydrogen chase boats. Many will think that they are AC37 boats with stealth wings.

With fossil fuel camera boats and helicopters carrying all the cameras and pr folk. :lol:

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On 12/31/2021 at 2:55 AM, Sailbydate said:

Well, in recent history, it does appear to be harder to Defend than to Challenge, that's for sure.

On the other hand, with a better batting average, TNZ has been pretty good at Challenging...and winning.

Either way, I suggest it would be neither a lack of technical ability, nor sailing prowess which might prevent New Zealand from future participation. The 'stumbling block' would be funding...just as it is right now.

But you might want to ask the Australians, for confirmation.

I think NZ will win again no matter where AC37 will be held and I'll give you one Key Reason for it: THE CYCLORS! The Kiwis have a distinct Advantage there. Ben & Ratcliffe have shot themselves in the foot by allowing Dan Bernasconi to bring back Pedal Power.

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2 hours ago, enigmatically2 said:

You're wrong. I understand what hypocrisy is when I see it

Then perhaps you should look in the mirror, that way you'll see it too.

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19 minutes ago, dg_sailingfan said:

I think NZ will win again no matter where AC37 will be held and I'll give you one Key Reason for it: THE CYCLORS! The Kiwis have a distinct Advantage there. Ben & Ratcliffe have shot themselves in the foot by allowing Dan Bernasconi to bring back Pedal Power.

They were important in 35 when they didn't have batteries to power everything. All the teams will now have them as well. I still don't get why they have all of these extra mouths to feed during a campaign. Sell seats down in the cockpit for fans and get rid of the meaningless grinders/cyclors.

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When you get a prize asshole like Dalton, living in England, dealing with US and other countries for sponsorship, it really feels like a private business, run by a gready wanker, and using NZ as a port of convenience. 

NZ really doesn't need the negative connotations of the " rich white wankfest" that is the AC .

 

 

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Just now, NZL32 said:

When you get a prize asshole like Dalton, living in England, dealing with US and other countries for sponsorship, it really feels like a private business, run by a gready wanker, and using NZ as a port of convenience. 

NZ really doesn't need the negative connotations of the " rich white wankfest" that is the AC .

 

 

 

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On 1/2/2022 at 11:59 AM, shebeen said:

for a "national team", it seems like there's a lot of australians in key positions driving the ETNZ AC37 boat.

 

Add to that a foreign nation funding NZ....

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On 1/3/2022 at 8:59 AM, shebeen said:

for a "national team", it seems like there's a lot of australians in key positions driving the ETNZ AC37 boat.

 

There's also a lot of Fijians, Samoans and Tongans in critical positions in the AB's too. Your point?

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2 hours ago, Liquid said:

Add to that a foreign nation funding NZ....

No one cares...Spain funded Alinghi, and Bermuda funded Oracle

13 hours ago, NZL32 said:

When you get a prize asshole like Dalton, living in England, dealing with US and other countries for sponsorship, it really feels like a private business, run by a gready wanker, and using NZ as a port of convenience. 

NZ really doesn't need the negative connotations of the " rich white wankfest" that is the AC .

 

 

Blake lived in England too...

NZ doesn't need the negative connotations, but it sure benefits from the positive ones...

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9 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

There's also a lot of Fijians, Samoans and Tongans in critical positions in the AB's too. Your point?

That it's about time you got a national team together with kiwi nationals?

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2 hours ago, enigmatically2 said:

That it's about time you got a national team together with kiwi nationals?

I would be happy to have a team that wanted to race in NZ.

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2 hours ago, enigmatically2 said:

That it's about time you got a national team together with kiwi nationals?

Said no one wanting to win anything, ever. ;-)

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2 hours ago, enigmatically2 said:

That it's about time you got a national team together with kiwi nationals?

Surely a Kiwi National is someone who fulfills the Nationality rule.

Or just that your idea of a National is fucked up.

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4 hours ago, Forourselves said:

Bermuda funded Oracle

There it is!

For all to see - the basis of your psychosis: past AC's were funded by the venue!!!

Are you with Q or 14 years old?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Change your meds man!

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13 minutes ago, Liquid said:

There it is!

For all to see: The basis of your psychosis: past AC's were funded by the venue!!!

Are you with Q or 14 years old?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Change your meds man!

I don't care. I honestly don't give a shit that Oracle went to Bermuda. We still went there and got the job done in convincing fashion. You shouldn't care that its going offshore either, just hope your team can do the same thing Team NZ did. Cue the "I don't have a horse in this race" BS.

It shouldn't matter where the event is held, to ANYONE. Its about going there and beating everyone else, because thats the only way to get what you want. Team NZ did that. They went to Bermuda, and they destroyed everyone including the defender.

Thats all that should matter. You don't wanna do what it takes to win, STFU and sit at home. But those that are determined enough to win will go where ever they need to to get the job done.

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1 minute ago, Forourselves said:

You shouldn't care that its going offshore either!

I don't as it's already offshore to me...

 

And by the way - Bermuda didn't fund Oracle and you know it!

 

But sure as shit, some other country is going to fund your country's next AC entry..........

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21 minutes ago, Liquid said:

I don't as it's already offshore to me...

 

And by the way - Bermuda didn't fund Oracle and you know it!

 

But sure as shit, some other country is going to fund your country's next AC entry..........

Oracle paid a host fee and you know it, and we all know you have no idea how Oracles finances were split.

Good. If Jacindas govt wont fund the team and someone else wants to, i say good. Money is money. As long ad its not criminal, its simply utilising every resource.

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38 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Oracle paid a host fee and you know it, and we all know you have no idea how Oracles finances were split.

Wait, who paid a host fee?

 

Do you believe for a kiwi second that Larry Ellison had anything other than majority ownership and rule over his campaign????

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40 minutes ago, Liquid said:

Wait, who paid a host fee?

 

Do you believe for a kiwi second that Larry Ellison had anything other than majority ownership and rule over his campaign????

Bermuda paid a host fee.

I believe Larry owned his campaign, but billionaires aren't rich by being stupid with their money. If they can get someone else to pay for it, they will.

SailGP venues also pay a hosting fee. Larry owns that series too.

The financial package included in the bid by Bermuda was worth approximately US$77 million, including a $15 million sponsorship fee, $25 million for infrastructure improvements, $12 million operating costs and a $25 million guarantee against commercial sponsorships.

Not bad for the almighty billionaire to demand cash from offshore countries.

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Bermuda paid a hosting fee, but it was not subsidizing the defending team.

AKL wanted to do the same, but it was not good enough. GD also wanted the team to be paid (and himself of course), disguised as event cost, as it worked so well already in AC36. No strings attached, remember? 

Big difference to what Alinghi and Oracle did. 

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Perhaps this whole thread is starting from the wrong premise.

For a team that will base itself and defend in Cork or somewhere, be helmed by an Australian (no news on B&T re-signing); skippered by an Australian; designed by a Brit; funded by Emirates, the question should actually be "Was AC36 the final AC for NZ?"

Anywhere But New Zealand; Anyone But New Zealanders

ETNZ is dead. Long live ABNZ

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13 hours ago, Forourselves said:

Oracle paid a host fee and you know it

or

12 hours ago, Forourselves said:

Bermuda paid a host fee.

WTF man! Seriously get your meds straight!

Which the fuck is it.....???

4 hours ago, Rennmaus said:

Bermuda paid a hosting fee, but it was not subsidizing the defending team.

^^^THIS

 

At least a majority of the sailors onboard will be from New Zealand even if a majority of the money will come from another country...

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10 minutes ago, Liquid said:

At least a majority of the cyclors onboard will be from New Zealand even if a majority of the money will come from another country...

I suspect this may be more accurate

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On 1/2/2022 at 6:54 PM, barfy said:

The point is you are a troll, start a troll topic when this is well discussed elsewhere. 

Point is your topic is a pile of tepid Shit.

I am not a troll and you know it.  (it is fun to poke at the blinded kiwi fanboys, but that is not the purpose of this thread)

This is a legitimate thread discussing the practically of NZ not being able to garner enough public/financial support to stay in the AC game.  

The NZ effort has truly been a historic national achievement and a great source of pride.   As it should be.  Now that the team has shown no interest in remaining loyal to their own country, it will be almost impossible to reestablish that national effort.  I fear that without it, NZ will no longer be able to compete in the AC.  The odds are against them to win this next cup, but they have placed so many restrictions on the challengers that it might be possible to win again.  

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On 1/2/2022 at 8:05 PM, dg_sailingfan said:

I think NZ will win again no matter where AC37 will be held and I'll give you one Key Reason for it: THE CYCLORS! The Kiwis have a distinct Advantage there. Ben & Ratcliffe have shot themselves in the foot by allowing Dan Bernasconi to bring back Pedal Power.

So, you really think that the other teams do not know how to set up cyclors?  ha, ha, ha .......   Let me guess, you put pedals on the grinders and position them by your feet....   Team Oracle was considering cyclors in Bermuda, but didn't think it would be much of an advantage.  They didn't realize that having the hands free would allow a "grinder/cyclor" to help control the boat. 

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14 minutes ago, The_Alchemist said:

I am not a troll and you know it.  (it is fun to poke at the blinded kiwi fanboys, but that is not the purpose of this thread)

This is a legitimate thread discussing the practically of NZ not being able to garner enough public/financial support to stay in the AC game.  

The NZ effort has truly been a historic national achievement and a great source of pride.   As it should be.  Now that the team has shown no interest in remaining loyal to their own country, it will be almost impossible to reestablish that national effort.  I fear that without it, NZ will no longer be able to compete in the AC.  The odds are against them to win this next cup, but they have placed so many restrictions on the challengers that it might be possible to win again.  

Perhaps this is a final toss of the dice by Dalton. He wants the event to become a commercial venture that pays its own way. No need for chasing billionaires for help.

By leaving NZ behind and keeping the team running he wants to show it is feasible. That the event can be turned into NASCAR on foils. That other teams can follow. Pick a poodle club in any country and go for it. There would need to be a loosening of the nationality rules and the constructed in country part, but mutual consent has shown this would work.

Dalton has already shown that continuation of the idea is possible with huge financial penalties for breaking away from the idea, all by mutual consent.

Plus one design could be much more prominent, perhaps just make the livery the difference between the boats.

Either way, I do think it is the death of the team as an NZ 'national' team.

 

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19 minutes ago, Gissie said:

That the event can be turned into NASCAR on foils

The greatest weakness as a single sporting event the AC has is the four year cycles.

For many potential sponsors it's simply a road to far let's leave it to the billionaires as it has worked for the past 36 cycles as the third most popular international sporting event.:P

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27 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

The greatest weakness as a single sporting event the AC has is the four year cycles.

For many potential sponsors it's simply a road to far let's leave it to the billionaires as it has worked for the past 36 cycles as the third most popular international sporting event.:P

Agree totally. However surely, with mutual consent, it can be turned into an annual JAR. 

KFC or McD’s as major sponsors. 

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It's hard to top the SailGP model if you want to go commercial. 

What concerns me if the AC pursues that same commercial path too closely, is about if the AC will lose the (yes, billionaire-backed) history and stated intent of it being at the pinnacle of a yacht-racing Design Competition.

 

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Just now, Stingray~ said:

What concerns me if the AC pursues that same commercial path too closely, is about if the AC will lose the (yes, billionaire-backed) history of it being at the pinnacle of yacht-racing Design Competition.

Firstly,  how come that right now it is at the pinnacle of yacht racing and design?

Secondly, most of the billionaires were justifying their expensive hobby, and were being backed, by their commercial enterprises (Lipton, Bich, Bond, Ellison, etc.). Also Louis Vuitton and Prada come to mind.

Try opening your eyes a bit more...

 

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1 hour ago, Fiji Bitter said:

Firstly,  how come that right now it is at the pinnacle of yacht racing and design?

Secondly, most of the billionaires were justifying their expensive hobby, and were being backed, by their commercial enterprises (Lipton, Bich, Bond, Ellison, etc.). Also Louis Vuitton and Prada come to mind.

Try opening your eyes a bit more...

 

Agreed that the AC75s are leading the way, love the coming AC40s too. But can a money-deprived Defender maintain that tradition?

The rest is a non-sequitor since most $B's in AC history owed their wealth to the success of the companies they had built and some of whom were proud enough to display in their team names, Oracle and Luna Rossa being good recent owner examples.  I did love TT's 'Artemis' team name, though! 'Alinghi' is pretty cool too.

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12 hours ago, The_Alchemist said:

am not a troll and you know it.  (it is fun to poke at the blinded kiwi fanboys, but that is not the purpose of this thread)

This is a legitimate thread discussing the practically of NZ not being able to garner enough public/financial support to stay in the AC game.  

You are a troll, smirking negative Shit whenever you come out from under the bridge.

There is a etnz thread that is already full of this speculation that would be perfectly suited to your preaching. I'd be surprised if you hadn't alreadY stated your bias on the matter in that forum.

AnywAy, if etnz, ( not NZ which is a country btw), wins they will stay in the game.

Patience Muppet.

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18 hours ago, Fiji Bitter said:

Firstly,  how come that right now it is at the pinnacle of yacht racing and design?

Secondly, most of the billionaires were justifying their expensive hobby, and were being backed, by their commercial enterprises (Lipton, Bich, Bond, Ellison, etc.). Also Louis Vuitton and Prada come to mind.

Try opening your eyes a bit more...

 

Seems like the lack of billionaires is why we have this Kiwi induced clusterfuck going on. AC72's were the pinnacle then and BOR, but at least the defender could pay for it. Open your eyes yourself.

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21 hours ago, Gissie said:

He wants the event to become a commercial venture that pays its own way. No need for chasing billionaires for help.

GD is proving that 'no need for billionaires' is just not going to work!

Its the AC, where a 'stupid rich guy wins a race' is the entire point! The winner doesn't give a shit whether the unwashed masses know of his win, those he wants to know, they know!

21 hours ago, Priscilla said:

The greatest weakness as a single sporting event the AC has is the four year cycles.

Hence, why the AC will never be a commercially viable property and it never should be one!

Stadiums tend to have a second life after the premier event they were built for, boat cranes, pole buildings and docks... no so much!

 

19 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

It's hard to top the SailGP model if you want to go commercial. 

As much as I hate that stupid final race, SailGP is the best current version of a viable, repeatable sailing series...

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4 hours ago, Liquid said:

 

As much as I hate that stupid final race, SailGP is the best current version of a viable, repeatable sailing series...

Yeah they had a billionaire! One who was willing to take business losses to get it going. Useful for tax time and besides, his net worth has doubled in the past 5 years or so.  Remains to be seen if it ever get on all solid food, but not a model GD can follow unless Musk buys NZ.

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Unless they win, I don’t see how ETNZ survives. I know of at least one previous sponsor that’s lost interest based on how things are going, and can’t imagine they’re alone. Grant is burning bridges as fast as he can get the matches lit. 

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5 hours ago, Monkey said:

Unless they win, I don’t see how ETNZ survives. I know of at least one previous sponsor that’s lost interest based on how things are going, and can’t imagine they’re alone. Grant is burning bridges as fast as he can get the matches lit. 

It will only take one guess...

The hydro powered chase boat cooked the goose eh ;-)

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5 hours ago, Monkey said:

Unless they win, I don’t see how ETNZ survives. I know of at least one previous sponsor that’s lost interest based on how things are going, and can’t imagine they’re alone. Grant is burning bridges as fast as he can get the matches lit. 

Even if they win, they will never be an NZ team again.

My guess is it is a reason for B&T not signing yet.

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1 minute ago, Gissie said:

Even if they win, they will never be an NZ team again.

My guess is it is a reason for B&T not signing yet.

In what way will they not be a NZ team? If they call themselves Team NZ, thats what they'll be - Team NZ.

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22 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

In what way will they not be a NZ team? If they call themselves Team NZ, thats what they'll be - Team NZ.

They could also call themselves Team Traitors and that's what they are.

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50 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

In what way will they not be a NZ team? If they call themselves Team NZ, thats what they'll be - Team NZ.

You claimed earlier that the government owes them a permanent base as they are a 'national team'.

Yet all our other national teams survive through the national body. I asked why you don't give NZ Sailing shit rather than the government.

In reality you can call yourself whatever you want (unless you upset big companies) and get away with it. Doesn't mean it is real, apart from in the minds of unquestioning supporters.

Like you.

 

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How about Donald - he still worth around $2bn

Still speculation that Trump could be charged with obstructing the certification of the election so he may want to run away

He was responsible for a 70% rise in americans applying for NZ residency (the ones that wanted out of US after he was elected) so you owe him. I guess

And NZ is popular with people planning for the collapse of civilisation* so it might appeal to Trump because he seemed to think that if he wasn't president that would happen.

And there are lots of golf courses

 

* only a cruel person would suggest that this is because living in NZ you are already used to the absence of civilisation,

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Good idea. He could buy the team but have the venue near Mar a Lago. Florida will be wide open even if people were dropping in the streets from Ebola.

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3 hours ago, enigmatically2 said:

How about Donald - he still worth around $2bn

Still speculation that Trump could be charged with obstructing the certification of the election so he may want to run away

He was responsible for a 70% rise in americans applying for NZ residency (the ones that wanted out of US after he was elected) so you owe him. I guess

And NZ is popular with people planning for the collapse of civilisation* so it might appeal to Trump because he seemed to think that if he wasn't president that would happen.

And there are lots of golf courses

 

* only a cruel person would suggest that this is because living in NZ you are already used to the absence of civilisation,

You don't want him as a sponsor. The check would bounce, and then he would sue you to get back the money he never paid you. He never does anything with his own money. It's always done with some sucker's dollars.

He's like P. T. Barnum with bad hair.

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On 1/4/2022 at 5:43 AM, enigmatically2 said:

..the question should actually be "Was AC36 the final AC for NZ?"

+1. Was AC36 the final AC for NZ? 

ditching Auckland, then kicking B&T to the curb. imo, very possibly the end of a proud legacy. 

Dirt-shoveled-on-casket-website-pic.jpg

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4 hours ago, enigmatically2 said:

* only a cruel person would suggest that this is because living in NZ you are already used to the absence of civilisation,

Not as bad as Australia, the closest they get to culture is yoghurt...

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