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RS21 is very quietly approaching 200 boats sold in ~3 years.  Very little fanfare for RS.
That's quite an accomplishment for their first keelboat, no?
 

For US folks, there are ~25 here, including Lakewood YC in Texas with 12, and San Francisco YC with 6.
Being used for the Resolute Cup, CRW and a bunch of other events in 2022.

I know a number of clubs looking at them for inter-club racing.
Hoping to see an RS21 invite circuit in 2022/2023.

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24 minutes ago, EbbAndFlow said:

There have even been rumors that the RS21 should replace the J/70. But cant imagine that soon to happen J boats are just to powerfull.

In europe at lake garda the RS21 had some bigger events this year.

It's less expensive and far more practical, and probably more fun to sail ...disclaimer- I have sailed a J70 but not the RS21

- DSK

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9 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

It's less expensive and far more practical, and probably more fun to sail ...disclaimer- I have sailed a J70 but not the RS21

- DSK

I'm curious, how is it more practical?  I think practical would mean you have a cabin to get people out of bad weather...etc.  

I like the RS21. I think they did a good job with the technology but I can see that it's a struggle.  We have eight Elliott 6meters in our association that people can charter to race and many are intimidated by them.  They both come across as racers only with no cabin, carbon spars...etc.

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3 minutes ago, WCB said:

I'm curious, how is it more practical?  I think practical would mean you have a cabin to get people out of bad weather...etc.  

I like the RS21. I think they did a good job with the technology but I can see that it's a struggle.  We have eight Elliott 6meters in our association that people can charter to race and many are intimidated by them.  They both come across as racers only with no cabin, carbon spars...etc.

Hmm, I was unaware the J70 had a cabin ;)

Why racing? Why not just fun to sail, with clean low maintenance aux propulsion built in?

Not familiar with the Elliotts but let's not get sidetracked on a thread about the RS21... one my post-pandemic goals is to go to one of the events where they're chartered.

- DSK

 

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4 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

Hmm, I was unaware the J70 had a cabin ;)

Why racing? Why not just fun to sail, with clean low maintenance aux propulsion built in?

Not familiar with the Elliotts but let's not get sidetracked on a thread about the RS21... one my post-pandemic goals is to go to one of the events where they're chartered.

- DSK

 

Definitely love the well thought out propulsion system.  Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see them thrive, it's just a tough sell.  I think West Coast Sailing has been trying to sell their demo for three years.

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@WCB  Indeed!


We've had good success with the 21, it's a well thought out boat.
Quite excited by all the events using it in 2022

I think initially, we tried to market it as 'it does every great!  For less!'
And in retrospect, that was too broad, unfocused.

I think seeing what Lakewood is doing, or SFYC.  Resolute Cup.  CRW.
I think that is where we will go, less than trying to make it a smaller M24 class or a J/70 1:1 competitor.
Those are great boats, with great classes.

The more we focus on it being a modern, fun to sail boat that works well in programs and club sailing - the better.
It's just a very strong boat in that role.

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12 hours ago, WestCoast said:

@WCB  Indeed!


We've had good success with the 21, it's a well thought out boat.
Quite excited by all the events using it in 2022

I think initially, we tried to market it as 'it does every great!  For less!'
And in retrospect, that was too broad, unfocused.

I think seeing what Lakewood is doing, or SFYC.  Resolute Cup.  CRW.
I think that is where we will go, less than trying to make it a smaller M24 class or a J/70 1:1 competitor.
Those are great boats, with great classes.

The more we focus on it being a modern, fun to sail boat that works well in programs and club sailing - the better.
It's just a very strong boat in that role.

Good approach.  Being so similar to an Elliott 6meter, it seems like a great club boat, given our experience with fleet charters.  There's got to be a number of clubs/associations that need a boat like this that need a fleet offer because the organization can't afford a fleet like Lakewood or SFYC.  

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On 12/30/2021 at 8:57 PM, BlatantEcho said:

RS21 is very quietly approaching 200 boats sold in ~3 years.  Very little fanfare for RS.
That's quite an accomplishment for their first keelboat, no?
 

For US folks, there are ~25 here, including Lakewood YC in Texas with 12, and San Francisco YC with 6.
Being used for the Resolute Cup, CRW and a bunch of other events in 2022.

I know a number of clubs looking at them for inter-club racing.
Hoping to see an RS21 invite circuit in 2022/2023.

Thank you for pointing this milestone out! 

In all honesty, we have been quiet as the approach has been for people to open the doors for us. We don't want to force the boat on anyone. I texted our CEO about this thread and we both thought maybe that's why we haven't focused on the number sold. Each little milestone we have made, each opportunity presented have just been so exciting that wrapping our head around the big picture hasn't been a priority.

This has especially been compounded by COVID which hit just as we were gaining traction, pushing off the decision of many potential buyers and making events or demo sails near impossible. In times of somewhat uncertainty doors really seem to remain closed, while our smaller boats have gone gangbuster! 

Despite that, over the last 2 years, Clubs and private sailors have come to us very interested in the boat and there are certainly exciting times to come.

There are just over 40 RS21s in North America including our demo fleet which was used at the US Sailing Chubb Jr. Championships for the Sears Trophy, we have a great fleet (and more charters available!) for Charleston Race Week, and the New York Yacht Club Resolute Cup in September.

The Europeans have definitely clung onto the idea of a strong RS21 One Design fleet, with a spark in Italy, it seems to be spreading. Meanwhile various clubs and organizations such as the World Match Race Tour have taken notice, opening doors and conversation with us.

If there is one thing we do really well at RS Sailing it's hearing our customers out. We can't always do what we want, but we're always down for a good no pressure conversation. 

So we're going to keep trickling along seeing where the opportunities arise. The process for most clubs can take many years to buy boats and as many have said, starting a one design is really hard. Sure maybe it makes more sense than other boats, but there are some other really great boats and great classes out there. The natural progression of one design works out when there is a demand, when it's falsely forced it's never good for anyone. 

While I'm obviously partial, this is the most versatile and approachable small keelboat out there, that was the design goal. I've run into several areas where the keel is too deep or certain aspects of the boat don't work for someone.

Overall most signs point to this boat works really well and we welcome anyone to chat with us about it. 

 

And finally I'm going to plug US Sailing, Eastern Yacht Club (and many volunteers), Marblehead Trading, North Sails, Kenny Harvey, Sean Wilson, Cappy Capper and lots of others that busted their butts to help me with supplying 12 boats for the Sears this summer! It nearly broke me but it was an amazing chance to see these boats shine in one of the visions we had for it. 

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IMG_6531.jpg.d18ee32b87daa4f8a4f4e20a1d003726.jpg

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I own a RS21, and i will be perfectly honest I love it. Such an easy boat to handle and well thought out. Can get a little wet at times, but like any sailing if you wear the appropriate gear its not a problem. It loves a good breeze and really stable on plane. In light wind it does suffer downwind compared to other similar boats due to running a Gennaker rather than a full Asymmetric and cant run those deeper soaking angles. Upwind it runs good from light to a stiff breeze and holds its own with a J/70 and J/80 for the waterline length it has. It is considerably less money to purchase than a J/70 for the same fun and it comes with a motor? Due to the ergonomics of the layout it is also easy to run the boat with 2 if your struggling for crew. Not ideal i know but we cant always rely on your 3rd or 4th sometimes.

Looking forward to CRW to finally get a One Design race in and get some close racing.

Neil

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4 hours ago, Treads said:

I own a RS21, and i will be perfectly honest I love it. Such an easy boat to handle and well thought out. Can get a little wet at times, but like any sailing if you wear the appropriate gear its not a problem. It loves a good breeze and really stable on plane. In light wind it does suffer downwind compared to other similar boats due to running a Gennaker rather than a full Asymmetric and cant run those deeper soaking angles. Upwind it runs good from light to a stiff breeze and holds its own with a J/70 and J/80 for the waterline length it has. It is considerably less money to purchase than a J/70 for the same fun and it comes with a motor? Due to the ergonomics of the layout it is also easy to run the boat with 2 if your struggling for crew. Not ideal i know but we cant always rely on your 3rd or 4th sometimes.

Looking forward to CRW to finally get a One Design race in and get some close racing.

Neil

Any tips on how to race these boats?  Ideal crew weight? How many crew?

Hoping to be in Charleston

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1 hour ago, crashtestdummy said:

Any tips on how to race these boats?  Ideal crew weight? How many crew?

Hoping to be in Charleston

Around 700 lbs is ideal, can be sailed with 3 but the extra hand with 4 is nice. It can definitely be sailed lighter or heavier and both will benefit in their own conditions.

Hopefully you can join us!

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 1/11/2022 at 4:37 PM, RSsailingNA said:

Around 700 lbs is ideal, can be sailed with 3 but the extra hand with 4 is nice. It can definitely be sailed lighter or heavier and both will benefit in their own conditions.

Hopefully you can join us!

do you expect more boats than currently registered?  Will you still ship 4 boats down or pull the plug and refund charter fee?

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On 1/21/2022 at 4:13 PM, crashtestdummy said:

do you expect more boats than currently registered?  Will you still ship 4 boats down or pull the plug and refund charter fee?

5 currently registered includes 3 charters and 2 private owners, have 4 more charters on the fence. It's also super early for charter sailor to commit, but we are increasing the charter fee on February 1st and the regatta entry goes up that date too.

We have 10 boats down there and could bring down two more. 

So I expect a fleet size of 9-13.

-Todd

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2 hours ago, crashtestdummy said:

Well done Tood....now provide some insight on how to sail these boats??

Come sail with us! That's the clear answer! :)

I spend too much time selling boats, when I do have very little time to race I sail something quite different. 

We have done tuning guides in the US and I'm sure the Italians have done one but I've yet to see it, they sail in much more breeze.

https://www.rs21sailing.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/RS21-Tuning-Guide.pdf

I did spent a week on the support boat the Chubb Jr.  Championships and RS21 NAs last year. My observations..

Upwind it's about maintaining the power in lighter air and finding the best heel angle which seems to be plus or minus 12 degrees, flatter for lighter air. So not super heeled but not super flat. 

Downwind going low and slow with an wing on wing occasionally having it's advantages is good until the boat can plane or surf. Once you can sail higher to get consistently on a plane VMG mode seems faster in consistent conditions but if it drops down to the point that you're hunting for the plane more than 50% of the time it's best to go low again.

Once the breeze picks up and you get on a plane water will come over the bow but it always runs out the back and generally stays on the leeward side.

Lack of traveler means vang sheeting is important, other controls such as jib leads, jib downhaul, outhaul, backstay, mainsail cunningham are also obviously going to be important.

Crew, definitely best with 4 weighing in around 700-750 lbs. 4th person gives extra hands for the gennaker hoist and drops. Especially in light air where you've really got to race to get it down, most crews will either pull it to windward then drop or do a Mexican rounding/drop. 

The continuous mainsheet means that either the helm or crew can do the mainsheet. If you've got a good trimmer who is synced with the helm then that's a great advantage and can also be your tactician. You've still got the forward crew to do the jib and the second most forward person as a floater. 

Boat handling is a lot like a dinghy, you can roll tack/jibe, weight fore/aft is important.

Lots of videos online especially from Italy to pickup tips.

 

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12 hours ago, RSsailingNA said:

Come sail with us! That's the clear answer! :)

I spend too much time selling boats, when I do have very little time to race I sail something quite different. 

We have done tuning guides in the US and I'm sure the Italians have done one but I've yet to see it, they sail in much more breeze.

https://www.rs21sailing.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/RS21-Tuning-Guide.pdf

I did spent a week on the support boat the Chubb Jr.  Championships and RS21 NAs last year. My observations..

Upwind it's about maintaining the power in lighter air and finding the best heel angle which seems to be plus or minus 12 degrees, flatter for lighter air. So not super heeled but not super flat. 

Downwind going low and slow with an wing on wing occasionally having it's advantages is good until the boat can plane or surf. Once you can sail higher to get consistently on a plane VMG mode seems faster in consistent conditions but if it drops down to the point that you're hunting for the plane more than 50% of the time it's best to go low again.

Once the breeze picks up and you get on a plane water will come over the bow but it always runs out the back and generally stays on the leeward side.

Lack of traveler means vang sheeting is important, other controls such as jib leads, jib downhaul, outhaul, backstay, mainsail cunningham are also obviously going to be important.

Crew, definitely best with 4 weighing in around 700-750 lbs. 4th person gives extra hands for the gennaker hoist and drops. Especially in light air where you've really got to race to get it down, most crews will either pull it to windward then drop or do a Mexican rounding/drop. 

The continuous mainsheet means that either the helm or crew can do the mainsheet. If you've got a good trimmer who is synced with the helm then that's a great advantage and can also be your tactician. You've still got the forward crew to do the jib and the second most forward person as a floater. 

Boat handling is a lot like a dinghy, you can roll tack/jibe, weight fore/aft is important.

Lots of videos online especially from Italy to pickup tips.

 

In…..just committed to one of the charter boats.  Looking forward to it

Seems like there are a few more who have entered but not paid yet on the entry list 

 

 

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14 hours ago, crashtestdummy said:

In…..just committed to one of the charter boats.  Looking forward to it

Seems like there are a few more who have entered but not paid yet on the entry list 

 

 

Thanks for joining us! Yes for sure, I think some are having a problem with the new entry software.

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On 2/1/2022 at 6:51 AM, crashtestdummy said:

In…..just committed to one of the charter boats.  Looking forward to it

Seems like there are a few more who have entered but not paid yet on the entry list 

 

 

Looking forward to CRW, please say hi (Honey Badger). I will be happy to share all i have learned racing the RS21 for the last year and a half on an inland lake, be it right or wrong.

 

Neil

90527499.JPG

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  • 2 weeks later...

Currently only fleets in Detroit, Houston, San Francisco. There are a handful of other scattered private owners sailing PHRF.

It's not worth forcing one design fleets, our opinion is the boat fits in for some people and they will chose it on it's merits and sail it, hopefully convince their friends to buy one too. I wish we could do more but it will happen naturally over time if it's meant to.

I had the discussion with someone today about fleets, how many boats you need to sell in North America to have fleets. A LOT! 

How many fleets do J70s, Viper 640s, VX-Ones have? Sure more than the RS21...

The J70 has over 1,500 boats built and lists 25 Fleets. They've done a great job with organization, I admire how good J-Boats and their followers are at class building. Quite a few of those are only a couple boats or the boats have moved on completely, some are at exclusive clubs, and a few do have good regular amateur racing. Also of course they travel for various regattas with the whole pro scene, but if you really mapped it, how many unique areas are having regattas? IMO there is a major gap in the lesser known sail areas that still have great sailing. That is where I hope we can fit in and when you want to leave your local region you can do so without being an arms race.

Someone's gotta be the trailblazer like @Treads or we'll all let the world go by asking the age old question of where are the fleets.

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@RSsailingNA so are you saying that the real measure is not fleets so much as critical mass of the number of boats sold?  It's definitely difficult with the US, there's so much land mass.  Thirty eight hours from Park City, UT to Miami to race my Melges 24 in the Winter series.  That's a big drive.  What really helps is knowing that there are 866 Melges 24s sold so that while not all are in the US, there are pockets of them all over and you can attend a regatta in the NW, California, Utah, Colorado, Midwest, Southeast, Florida, Northeast and have 10+ boats.  I'm agreeing with you I believe...it's not necessarily a measure of fleets but more the need to sell enough boats into this big country to allow more regional events to happen.

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