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A lost art: Conserving ice.


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14 hours ago, Elegua said:

That's a nice watch to wear to work. :) 

Heh.  I actually like it a lot.  It has a HAQ (high accuracy quartz) movement that's accurate to within a second or two a month, and I use it when swimming and for shallower water scuba diving where I don't need or want a dive computer.  I've had it for a little over three years and haven't killed it or scratched it up yet.  I've looked at smartwatches and am not yet convinced that I want one.

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Here is the T+12 hour photo taken this morning.  The water had cooled to 32o and ice was just beginning to form around the edges, and the compressor was starting to cycle off once in a great while.  The air temperature in the cooler was cycling between -1o and -4o F.

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I ran the fridge on my AA NiMH battery box which has a built-in ammeter to measure power draw.  It was drawing 3 amps at just over 10 volts, so about 32 watts.  Because it runs the compressor through an inverter the wattage remains the same regardless of voltage, so that would be around 2.5 amps at a more usual boat power supply running 12.8 volts.

I think it ran at near 100% duty cycle for the first 12 hours and has averaged about 75% since then.

When we're done we can figure out how many amp-hours are in a pound of ice.

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We're at T+24.5 hours at this point and ice has formed on the bottom and sides of the bucket to a thickness of about an inch, maybe a little less.  I put some green dye in the remaining water so you can see the difference between water and ice in the photo.

 

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Another alternative to consider is the countertop ice machines.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Fooing-Portable-Compact-Electric-Ice-Maker-Machine-Mini-Cube-24lb-Day-with-Ice-Scoop

These things make around 1# of ice an hour on 100 watts at 120v.  You have to empty the ice bucket every hour or so and refill the water reservoir every 4 hours or it shuts off.  They're big but smaller than a picnic cooler.  I don't have one but I've used them.  A little loud.  Reviews indicate that they work great until they don't, at which point they have to be scrapped because they're not repairable and the "warranty" requires you to pay round-trip shipping.  There are some early failures but most people get at least a few years out of them.  There doesn't seem to be a higher-quality brand.  I don't like disposable products and decided that these don't solve any problem that I actually have so I never bought one.

Based on the manufacturer's literature, 1# of ice in an hour at 100 watts would put is at about:

9 Ah per pound

Based on a 12 volt battery, and allowing for inverter and wiring losses of about 10%.

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Experiment should provide a sort of worst-case energy-->ice measurement. Cylindrical bucket offers about the least surface area/volume. Two 1 gallon jugs should freeze faster, with fewer BTUs; four half-gallons still faster, etc.

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On 1/2/2022 at 5:06 AM, Kris Cringle said:

That sounds great but how do you connect/seal the edges? Can it be done in a situation where they can't be accessed? And then I wonder how I would treat the top around the built in lid curb. Small pieces here and there. 

It was so long ago, I can’t recall exactly how I sealed the edges.  I think I was pretty careful with my templates (likely something like 3/4” sheet foam) for getting the vacuum panels made, probably even sending them to R Parts (which they may have required?), so that they’d be a snug fit.  I probably Sikaflexed or siliconed them at the seams?  Then lined the inside of the box with standard thin fibreglass panels from a plastic shop, with thickened epoxy fillets in the corners.

Seems like it would be hard to install them in place where there’s no access.  Mine was wide open at the top, since I was starting entirely from scratch.  I do recall it was a pretty complicated, lengthy project that had me occasionally wondering why in f- I was doing it... :-). In for a penny, in for a pound...

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16 hours ago, 2airishuman said:

Another alternative to consider is the countertop ice machines.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Fooing-Portable-Compact-Electric-Ice-Maker-Machine-Mini-Cube-24lb-Day-with-Ice-Scoop

These things make around 1# of ice an hour on 100 watts at 120v.  You have to empty the ice bucket every hour or so and refill the water reservoir every 4 hours or it shuts off.  They're big but smaller than a picnic cooler.  I don't have one but I've used them.  A little loud.  Reviews indicate that they work great until they don't, at which point they have to be scrapped because they're not repairable and the "warranty" requires you to pay round-trip shipping.  There are some early failures but most people get at least a few years out of them.  There doesn't seem to be a higher-quality brand.  I don't like disposable products and decided that these don't solve any problem that I actually have so I never bought one.

Based on the manufacturer's literature, 1# of ice in an hour at 100 watts would put is at about:

9 Ah per pound

Based on a 12 volt battery, and allowing for inverter and wiring losses of about 10%.

I have one of these...https://www.walmart.com/ip/Stakol-Portable-Compact-Electric-Ice-Maker-Machine-Mini-Cube-26lb-Day-Mint-Green/552458037

I find that the ice is fine for drinks and such.  I think that the ice isn't all that dense or something.  Melts fairly fast.  I tried to use it in my cooler for drinks and the ice just melted waaaaaay faster than the ice we get from our YC outstations.  Almost unusable. 

I'm still glad I bought it though.  While motoring to the anchorage and while anchoring, I turn the interverter on and the ice maker.  It'll make ice fast enough for two or three cocktails.

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On 1/1/2022 at 1:13 PM, Beer fueled Mayhem said:

I have one of those Dometic freezer/fridges. It is brilliant!  Doesn’t use much power either. I have the 50 liter version. 
You can buy the Chinese knock off version for pretty damn cheap…the Dometic version ain’t cheap. 
AEC24AB8-DE3C-4ED7-A9CF-AC12B81B5E57.thumb.png.b286b85aa6c7676dbb8134a245bdb8a3.png

 

I just bought one of these at REI.  Used my once a quarter 20% off coupon to save some bucks.  I hate searching for and schlepping ice.  A block, if I can find em, only lasts a few days in our colman cooler, cubes even less.  As you'd guess Colman's aren't well insulated compared to a built in job.  The dometic is about the same size as the colman so it fits neatly under the cockpit behind the companionway steps.  Its pretty heavy to pull out to access, but then I don't have the 10 or 20 lbs of ice.  I'm hoping my single battery with a 100W solar panel will keep up with the current draw.

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On 1/3/2022 at 9:44 AM, Bull City said:

One word: sawdust.

Hah. My father & uncle bought an ice plant just after WW2. Was still running when I was old enough to remember, mid-late 50's maybe. Old ammonia plant.

The ice storage room had walls 18" thick insulated with sawdust.

Bloody dangerous place too. My uncle managed to lose 3 fingers and half a thumb to the gang ice saws.

FKT

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1 hour ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Hah. My father & uncle bought an ice plant just after WW2. Was still running when I was old enough to remember, mid-late 50's maybe. Old ammonia plant.

The ice storage room had walls 18" thick insulated with sawdust.

Bloody dangerous place too. My uncle managed to lose 3 fingers and half a thumb to the gang ice saws.

FKT

There's a couple of those old ice houses still around Seattle.  Been repurposed though.  Had a fire in one and we were worried that the watered sawdust would expand, push out the walls, and collapse the brick 4 story monster.  Didn't happen. 

They used to cut ice blocks out of Lk Washington a hundred years ago to store in those buildings.  No more, though my older sister did see the lake (barely) freeze across the East Channel in the 1940s.  

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I have been wanting to build an icebox to expand my current ability to keep cold food.  This thread got me thinking.  My wife runs a hospital outpatient pharmacy.  They get expensive drugs that require cold storage while shipped.  Sure enough they ship some of these items in what appear to be vacuum insulated panels and they throw them out.  I have attached a photo of a box that she brought home with two zip lock bags of ice.  The "after" picture is what these bags looked like after 14 hours.  The lid was not super tightly sealed everywhere and the volume of the box is pretty big for the amount of ice.  The results look pretty good to me but not sure what others think.

In terms of using these panels, the problem is customizing the size.  I have considered lapping them to get a particular length or width and then finding closed cell foam to fill out the remaining section on each side.  For example, if you had had two 18" panels and wanted 24" then you could overlap them by 6".  If they are 1" thick then put a six inch piece of foam on each of the sides of the panel at the opposite ends to make the panels a uniform thickness throughout.  It would expand the thickness minimally but I am not sure how well the overlap would work compared to a continuous panel.

I also wondered how much these panels would help if they were added to the sides of my current isotherm built-in box.  For example, how much would they help if I taped them to the sides of the outside of the box.  I might be able to do this to one or two sides.  I am not sure whether this would help or does the heat flow from the uncovered sides or areas completely negate any benefit?

 

 

icebox.JPG

ice.JPG

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On 1/4/2022 at 3:05 PM, Kris Cringle said:

I'd love to know, thanks! 

The ice just finally froze completely through; it's been 96 hours (one pic).  It was perhaps 90% frozen after 48 hours (other pic) with a cone of water in the center, open at the top and tapering nearly to a point at the bottom.  The compressor is cycling and running less than 50% of the time now.

Looking at the first 48 hours it was drawing 2.5 amps and probably an average of 75% of the time which would be 90 amp-hours.  It made a little more than 12 pounds of ice (2 gallons = 16.67# but it wasn't quite full and some wasn't frozen).  Keep in mind that we started with water that was quite warm.  Some math gives us:

About 7 amp-hours per pound of ice.

With smaller containers, the same amount of water would, I think, freeze in somewhat less than 48 hours.  I've used bread pans and cake pans (in the regular chest freezer in my basement) in the past, to make blocks of ice for the cooler, and that works well.  They freeze quickly, and if they have tapered sides it's easy to get the ice out.  Using those we would end up with ice somewhat more quickly I would think but the total power consumed would be roughly the same.  Milk jugs would be somewhere in between.

I've never tried it but some people suggest using either PVC or copper pipe with caps on the ends filled about 80% full before capping, optionally with some glycol or (for the PVC) salt, to lower the freezing point.  The commercial "blue ice" packs at the store are similar except that they have some xanthan gum in them to form a gel.

 

 

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8 hours ago, gkny said:

I have been wanting to build an icebox to expand my current ability to keep cold food.  This thread got me thinking.  My wife runs a hospital outpatient pharmacy.  They get expensive drugs that require cold storage while shipped.  Sure enough they ship some of these items in what appear to be vacuum insulated panels and they throw them out.  I have attached a photo of a box that she brought home with two zip lock bags of ice.  The "after" picture is what these bags looked like after 14 hours.  The lid was not super tightly sealed everywhere and the volume of the box is pretty big for the amount of ice.  The results look pretty good to me but not sure what others think.

In terms of using these panels, the problem is customizing the size.  I have considered lapping them to get a particular length or width and then finding closed cell foam to fill out the remaining section on each side.  For example, if you had had two 18" panels and wanted 24" then you could overlap them by 6".  If they are 1" thick then put a six inch piece of foam on each of the sides of the panel at the opposite ends to make the panels a uniform thickness throughout.  It would expand the thickness minimally but I am not sure how well the overlap would work compared to a continuous panel.

I also wondered how much these panels would help if they were added to the sides of my current isotherm built-in box.  For example, how much would they help if I taped them to the sides of the outside of the box.  I might be able to do this to one or two sides.  I am not sure whether this would help or does the heat flow from the uncovered sides or areas completely negate any benefit?

Placing them on the outside of an existing box would certainly help the insulation value.  Yes you'll have some "thermal bridging" in the sections that have only foam but you'll still be better off with rather than without.  The foil will help too.

3M makes a spray foam for polystyrene that won't attack it (Spray Foam 78).  That's probably what you want to use if you want a permanent install.  I think given that the VIPs are sensitive to surface dings, putting a layer of foam sheet on the outside of them for protection would be the deluxe version for those with a perfectionist streak.  But I wouldn't let imperfection stop me if it was too much effort.  Especially for the price you're getting them for.

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57 minutes ago, random. said:

But what temperature was it?

Ice at -1 C is visually indistinguishable from -25C, but the performance is vastly different.

It was at around 0oF or -18o C.

Careful measurement of the properties of ice and water will show that it doesn't matter much, despite what you say.  I have made these measurements myself in freshman physics class years ago as it is a common teaching assignment when learning to use a calorimeter (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calorimeter).

The latent heat of fusion of water is 144 BTU/lb.  That is, 144 BTU of heat is absorbed from the surrounding environment by 1 lb. of melting ice that is already at its freezing point (32oF or 0oC).  (see https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/water-thermal-properties-d_162.html)

The specific heat of ice is 0.5035 BTU/(lb oF).  That is, 0.5035 BTU of heat is absorbed from the surrounding environment by 1 lb. of ice that changes its temperature by 1oF without melting.  A change from -25oC to -1oC is a change of 24oC = 43oF;  and results in 22 BTU/lb being absorbed from the surrounding environment.  This is 15% of the 144 BTU/lb that is absorbed from the phase transition (melting) from ice to water.

 

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8 hours ago, random. said:

But what temperature was it?

Ice at -1 C is visually indistinguishable from -25C, but the performance is vastly different.

Well, "vastly" may be overstating it a bit.

It takes about 45 joules per gram to warm ice from -25 to -1 C. It takes about 334 joules per gram to melt ice at 0 degrees C. So very cold ice is slightly better. But the vast majority of the "cooling power" of a block of ice is embodied in the phase change energy. Search term for anyone who is interested: "latent heat of fusion."

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42 minutes ago, random. said:

Yep that's what I meant.

Would you choose to go to sea with 15% less fuel or water?

After a certain number of days one temperature you have ice, the other your food or cargo is starting to go off.

Well, context is everything. If you are trying to keep a refrigerator cold, and doing it by continuous ice production (which, I think, is how this got started) then it is fine to just stop once you have solid ice. Cooling the ice further doesn't really buy you anything. In fact it will probably be less energy efficient overall. A case could be made that if you are buying blocks of ice, colder ones are more valuable because they contain more cooling potential. So if that is all you are saying then fine.

If you need to keep a freezer frozen, well, you can't really do that with blocks of ice. So you will need to take some other approach.

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A problem when using an icebox is the difficulty of carrying ice for beverages.  In the icebox, cube ice usually melts before block ice.  While block ice can be cut or crushed, some is lost in the process, it is extra work, and it is difficult to keep the ice clean.  Sometimes we fill a freezer bag with ice cubes, wrap it in a towel, and put it in the cooler, which works for a few days.

This arrived today as a belated Christmas present from my stepson.  It is a vacuum-insulated bucket that holds 3 liters -- a little less than a gallon.  I don't know whether the top is just foam or if it has vacuum material.  I'm planning on using it as an ice bucket for summer trips lasting several days.  Sadly, not on a large sailboat as we will be "between sailboats" so I will basically be camping from a 12' sailing dinghy, motorboat, or a canoe.  I'm hoping that it will keep ice for at least 4 days even when not kept in the cooler.  Previously I have tried the one-gallon foam-insulated water jugs and the ice melts in a day or two.

Also will be experimenting with it for hot foods for picnics and daysails.  In the past I have made good use of a quart widemouth thermos for soup or hotdogs but they aren't large enough for a group.

PXL_20220112_115644207.jpg

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2 hours ago, 2airishuman said:

A problem when using an icebox is the difficulty of carrying ice for beverages.  In the icebox, cube ice usually melts before block ice.  While block ice can be cut or crushed, some is lost in the process, it is extra work, and it is difficult to keep the ice clean.  

People pay good money in fancy bars for properly crushed ice. If you can get a clear block, I segregate it as "cocktail" ice and keep it in a bar towel next to the condenser and use an ice pick or said bar towel and a mallet. Yes, there is some loss, but the ice is lovely. A dark and stormy filled with crushed ice and bitters is a much improved drink, (and yes, heresy, skip that awful Goslings rum and use a nice rhum agricole). 

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On 1/2/2022 at 12:30 PM, Diarmuid said:

Yes, the residual cool of meltwater stil has a job to do, IF you can keep it away from the ice. Water is quite good at melting ice -- its heat transfer coefficient is 50-100 times greater than air in natural convection (where q=h(ΔT)). Once the meltwater temp gets above ~40°F, as you note, even in a grated setup your deltas water/air/ice become pretty steep and you want that water out of there.

No, this is basically myth.

a. The temperature of the box at the bottom is no more than 40F (warmer at the top, but cold air sinks). Melt water can provide no more than 10btu/pound cooling, or only a few percent that of ice. But it will increase the heat transfer through the bottom of the box, resulting in faster heat loss. I've done the testing both ways, measuring ice mass loss over time in equal temperature rooms. Draining the water as it melts is better, always. Ideally, the floor is sloped and there is zero water on the floor. The drain should be small and have a trap.

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  • 2 months later...

Back to ice and my icebox: Picture the side view (forward looking aft) of of an icebox. 4 sides, the bottom is angled to match the curvature of the hull.

At each bottom corner, the icebox is 2" above the hull. In between those points, the curvature of the hull moves out from the flat icebox, about 2".

To further complicate this picture, the two bottom corners of the icebox are in fact 2" away from the 1+" fiberglass ribs on the inside of the hull.

The actual hull is 3+" away from the corners of the icebox. AND as the hull curvature pulls away from the straight icebox bottom, the space grows to about 4-5". 

My intent is to fit 2, 1" pieces of ISO under the icebox along the hull. The only way that 2" of ISO will fit snugly to the bottom is pushing up the middle where hull curvature is the most pronounced. Alden actually used a block of wood cut to the hull curvature to support the white beam/styrofoam of the day. 

I want to use expanding foam. I'm thinking it will nicely compress the 2" ISO against the icebox. And of course it will add another inch of foam on the bottom, which is the longest side (30"). I'm thinking of trying the less dense expanding foam so as not to push the box/countertop up.

There are 3 'bays' between the ribs that would be filled with foam between the ISO and the GRP hull. Each bay is about 10" wide, 30" long and averages 3" in height (or volume). 

Is there any reason I shouldn't do this? Other areas will only have 2" but won't this big side/bottom be worth the extra insulation? 

I would need to shoot the foam in 30" (thanks for idea to use tubing extension), so either I do the bay in one pull - back to front, or in two steps - half from the front, half from the back (accessible from above, outboard of icebox). How will this work? 

This would be death for a wooden boat but fiberglass, why not? I intend to use the lightly expanding foam to also push the ISO against the icebox on the sides.

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1 hour ago, Kris Cringle said:

Back to ice and my icebox: Picture the side view (forward looking aft) of of an icebox. 4 sides, the bottom is angled to match the curvature of the hull.

At each bottom corner, the icebox is 2" above the hull. In between those points, the curvature of the hull moves out from the flat icebox, about 2".

To further complicate this picture, the two bottom corners of the icebox are in fact 2" away from the 1+" fiberglass ribs on the inside of the hull.

The actual hull is 3+" away from the corners of the icebox. AND as the hull curvature pulls away from the straight icebox bottom, the space grows to about 4-5". 

My intent is to fit 2, 1" pieces of ISO under the icebox along the hull. The only way that 2" of ISO will fit snugly to the bottom is pushing up the middle where hull curvature is the most pronounced. Alden actually used a block of wood cut to the hull curvature to support the white beam/styrofoam of the day. 

I want to use expanding foam. I'm thinking it will nicely compress the 2" ISO against the icebox. And of course it will add another inch of foam on the bottom, which is the longest side (30"). I'm thinking of trying the less dense expanding foam so as not to push the box/countertop up.

There are 3 'bays' between the ribs that would be filled with foam between the ISO and the GRP hull. Each bay is about 10" wide, 30" long and averages 3" in height (or volume). 

Is there any reason I shouldn't do this? Other areas will only have 2" but won't this big side/bottom be worth the extra insulation? 

I would need to shoot the foam in 30" (thanks for idea to use tubing extension), so either I do the bay in one pull - back to front, or in two steps - half from the front, half from the back (accessible from above, outboard of icebox). How will this work? 

This would be death for a wooden boat but fiberglass, why not? I intend to use the lightly expanding foam to also push the ISO against the icebox on the sides.

I don't see why not, providing the expanding foam has somewhere to go as it expands. I also might not shoot it all at once, even though the is likely to give the best results.

Before doing this, you might clean the hull inner surface thoroughly to remove any mildew and/or dirt that might support the growth of mildew. I used a lot of expanding foam to fill in irregular voids when I built the refrigerator and freezer on my last boat.  Excess is easy to cut off flush with a long serrated knife.

You can see some of that in the pictures below.

I used sheet polyiso on flat surfaces, and filled in the gaps withfreezer5.thumb.jpg.a86153f3a8a10a7eb6c1a7754fd8d643.jpgfreezer3.thumb.jpg.6fad065aabda1991505581820d260096.jpg spray foam.

Be aware the polyiso foam is an extreme skin irritant, so suit up and wear a respirator of some type when working with it.

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kris..my ice box sounds like yours the way it is nestled against the hull, but minus the hull ribs. They also decided to run the exhaust hose in the gap between the outboard side of the icebox and the hull. :lol:

I use it to store pots and pans and dishes now, however, I can see the PO did spend some time with cardboard and spray foam. We are also really just doing weekend warrior cruising right now, so these longer term solutions might be useful down the road. My drink ice solution is a 55 liter Dometic (Yeti style knockoff) that sits on the generally cool quarterberth. I might hide some extra beers in the bottom if the cooler is not quite full of ice. B)

Keep up the good discussion.

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I've blown 7 - 12oz. cans of exploding foam into the recess between the hull and the 2" of polyiso and the fiberglass hull. Due to the 1+" fiberglass ribs and the curvature of the hull, it's a bigger void than I anticipated. I was worried the foam would push the whole box up but at accnick mentioned, because there was room for the foam to expand outward, it didn't raise the SS box a bit. 

Over 60+ years, the condensation from the 1/2" copper drain pipe damaged the plywood front. This area always showed condensation but the joint (copper to SS) doesn't leak. I plan to tightly fit the polyiso around the copper and encase the drain pipe beyond the foam with a tight pipe foam wrap, for a few inches beyond. That plus a small water trap (high loop) might help as well. 

I'm searching out a replacement piece for this: 

486958492_Iceboxpanel.thumb.jpeg.176a572b77c633506d3272573b421dc9.jpeg

 

 

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30 minutes ago, Kris Cringle said:

I've blown 7 - 12oz. cans of exploding foam into the recess between the hull and the 2" of polyiso and the fiberglass hull. Due to the 1+" fiberglass ribs and the curvature of the hull, it's a bigger void than I anticipated. I was worried the foam would push the whole box up but at accnick mentioned, because there was room for the foam to expand outward, it didn't raise the SS box a bit. 

Over 60+ years, the condensation from the 1/2" copper drain pipe damaged the plywood front. This area always showed condensation but the joint (copper to SS) doesn't leak. I plan to tightly fit the polyiso around the copper and encase the drain pipe beyond the foam with a tight pipe foam wrap, for a few inches beyond. That plus a small water trap (high loop) might help as well. 

I'm searching out a replacement piece for this: 

486958492_Iceboxpanel.thumb.jpeg.176a572b77c633506d3272573b421dc9.jpeg

 

 

It looks like it is probably mahogany marine ply. You won't get a perfect color match, but the material should be available.  Worst case, depending on where it is and what shows, you could put formica over a new piece or paint it if you can't find the wood species you want.

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I headed to the boat to finish filling the voids under my icebox that I began yesterday, with cans of foam. Suffice it to say, I don't work with foam, much. 

730890363_Iceboxfoamcloseup.thumb.jpeg.3ee9700ad73562c3f8c1673145b78631.jpeg

I probably could have used one less can. I think it's still moving,...So the bottom now has a minimum of 3" of foam with much of that area a full 4". 

I've got the two sides fitted with 2" (2 pieces) of polyiso sheet. Once fitted, there is 1/2" of space between the Iso and the SS box, that I think I'll attempt to fill with the expanding foam and a tube extension. 

The starboard sliding settee removed: You can see the 1/2" copper stub of the icebox drain. That's designed to gravity drain into the sump. I believe some of the cold loss could be that constant draining.

Somebody advised adding a water trap that I could achieve simply by raising the drain hose an inch or so above the bottom of the box that would at least slow the cold flow through the drain. I worry that could also create jams of inevitable junk that finds the little drain. 

 

What do you think, worth trying? 

I've never seen the tops of Aldens 1961 monel water tanks. There are three 40 gallon tanks onboard. I can't find any signs of corrosion even around outlets and fill stubs. 

2137283895_Monelwatertanksiceboxstub.(1).thumb.jpeg.ae5cf865351baece46dc8d3329e9ee2c.jpeg

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Hm. Instead of a trap,  why not simply plug the drain and periodically drain the melt water? That will prevent the junk clogs that you're worried about?

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46 minutes ago, Ajax said:

Hm. Instead of a trap,  why not simply plug the drain and periodically drain the melt water? That will prevent the junk clogs that you're worried about?

Oh,.. I didn’t think of that. Plus a yoga mat on the top, when convenient. Thanks!

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3 hours ago, Kris Cringle said:

Oh,.. I didn’t think of that. Plus a yoga mat on the top, when convenient. Thanks!

We plug the drain in the reefer itself.  Not the drain tube.  Had stuff solidify slightly in the tube when I capped the end.  That was a mess...

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3 sheets of 1" polyiso later. It's a big box, this icebox.

Still just 2" on the top, front and two ends, but double the R value of the 60's material and installed more tightly this time around.  

IMG_3871.thumb.jpeg.226c9201f3ea137a92475f9d74b540d8.jpeg

The bottom and back are 3"+ now.

In the end, I didn't want to icebox not to self drain into the 2-3 gallon sump, so I put a 360 degree loop/trap beneath the sole halfway to the sump. If that starts to clog, it's easy to get to and remove the loop. 

This area will be re-entombed for another 50 years (that's why I didn't scrub it). 

IMG_3869.thumb.jpeg.e62e32972ea1c0b560304738865ca95e.jpeg

My 4X4' piece of Ribbon Stripe Sapele plywood will arrive monday so I can start to sew it back up. 

 

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1 hour ago, Kris Cringle said:

3 sheets of 1" polyiso later. It's a big box, this icebox.

Still just 2" on the top, front and two ends, but double the R value of the 60's material and installed more tightly this time around.  

IMG_3871.thumb.jpeg.226c9201f3ea137a92475f9d74b540d8.jpeg

The bottom and back are 3"+ now.

In the end, I didn't want to icebox not to self drain into the 2-3 gallon sump, so I put a 360 degree loop/trap beneath the sole halfway to the sump. If that starts to clog, it's easy to get to and remove the loop. 

This area will be re-entombed for another 50 years (that's why I didn't scrub it). 

IMG_3869.thumb.jpeg.e62e32972ea1c0b560304738865ca95e.jpeg

My 4X4' piece of Ribbon Stripe Sapele plywood will arrive monday so I can start to sew it back up. 

 

This will be a dramatic improvement, maybe so much that you start to look at a refrigeration conversion.

I'm sure you need another project...

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13 hours ago, accnick said:

This will be a dramatic improvement, maybe so much that you start to look at a refrigeration conversion.

I'm sure you need another project...

Ha! I appreciate your optimism, thanks. 

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2 coats of Petit sealer, rolled and tipped, 3 hours apart without sanding. Overnight dry. 

Medium touch to flatten only,  with 180 grit in a 6" RO. Full coat of basic Captains Varnish, rolled and tipped. Overnight, bone dry. 

Light touch to glaze only, with 240 grit in a 6" RO. Full second coat of Captains, rolled (checkerboard) and lightly tipped. 

IMG_3882.thumb.jpeg.795972a651fd529077523c304f125315.jpeg

This is the Sapele marine plywood (Boulter Plywood Ma.) to replace the damaged icebox front. I'll do one more coat only because it's too much fun not to have another go. Hmmm,... Scotch pad or 320 on a hand block,....?

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2 hours ago, Kris Cringle said:

2 coats of Petit sealer, rolled and tipped, 3 hours apart without sanding. Overnight dry. 

Medium touch to flatten only,  with 180 grit in a 6" RO. Full coat of basic Captains Varnish, rolled and tipped. Overnight, bone dry. 

Light touch to glaze only, with 240 grit in a 6" RO. Full second coat of Captains, rolled (checkerboard) and lightly tipped. 

IMG_3882.thumb.jpeg.795972a651fd529077523c304f125315.jpeg

This is the Sapele marine plywood (Boulter Plywood Ma.) to replace the damaged icebox front. I'll do one more coat only because it's too much fun not to have another go. Hmmm,... Scotch pad or 320 on a hand block,....?

I usually block sand big flat surfaces with 320 after I've built up enough coats to fill the grain completely. Block sand, one full coat, hand sand with 320, a second full coat, and done.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Putting the surrounding cabinetry back in place, I remember when I bought this boat in 98-99, it came with big Loran stuffed in the locker beneath the chart drawer.

The PO, by then deceased, probably stuffed the blinking gizmo out of sight as it was the 'new tech' and he could have been an 'old school navigator' plotting his own hard earned fixes on the charts.

The chart drawer then had several large charts of Southern NE and a few of Maine. I piled my own charts, chart book sized then, on top and used the old Loran for the first season. My only formal piloting was Power Squadron course back in the 80's, plus a few trips down the coast and to the Bahamas to add to my piloting. 

274997607_iceboxfront_.thumb.jpg.7d4bfed62bfd0632be7cbe8d2d2fcb0e.jpg

The chart drawer stayed that way for 5-8 years or so even after I had installed GPS plotter in 2000. But it gradually changed and evolved and the contents had become much heavier. So I 'fixed' that with a couple packers on the side and some re-fastening to hold the new weight. 

Today, the chart drawer does everything except, hold charts (there is one small one in there, Boston, which I haven't sailed by since 2018). The chart drawer has evolved to hold 'things', things I need all day long to get on, get off and sail the boat.

This is my way of sailing, not far from home along a familiar coast. There's usually a tablet in there as well but that may have changed now, we'll see. 

1123757000_Chartdrawer.thumb.jpeg.19c64bdf4dd49066d2f4d139eaaa2cf3.jpeg

I've left this so the next owner can easily 'restore' the chart drawer. 

 

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55 minutes ago, Kris Cringle said:

Putting the surrounding cabinetry back in place, I remember when I bought this boat in 98-99, it came with big Loran stuffed in the locker beneath the chart drawer.

The PO, by then deceased, probably stuffed the blinking gizmo out of sight as it was the 'new tech' and he could have been an 'old school navigator' plotting his own hard earned fixes on the charts.

The chart drawer then had several large charts of Southern NE and a few of Maine. I piled my own charts, chart book sized then, on top and used the old Loran for the first season. My only formal piloting was Power Squadron course back in the 80's, plus a few trips down the coast and to the Bahamas to add to my piloting. 

274997607_iceboxfront_.thumb.jpg.7d4bfed62bfd0632be7cbe8d2d2fcb0e.jpg

The chart drawer stayed that way for 5-8 years or so even after I had installed GPS plotter in 2000. But it gradually changed and evolved and the contents had become much heavier. So I 'fixed' that with a couple packers on the side and some re-fastening to hold the new weight. 

Today, the chart drawer does everything except, hold charts (there is one small one in there, Boston, which I haven't sailed by since 2018). The chart drawer has evolved to hold 'things', things I need all day long to get on, get off and sail the boat.

This is my way of sailing, not far from home along a familiar coast. There's usually a tablet in there as well but that may have changed now, we'll see. 

1123757000_Chartdrawer.thumb.jpeg.19c64bdf4dd49066d2f4d139eaaa2cf3.jpeg

I've left this so the next owner can easily 'restore' the chart drawer. 

 

Why mess with it? Looks and functions well.

BTW I think I have the same knife in there with the cork screw.  I have paper for RI to Eastport. I don't like rolled charts so I store them folded under the settee. Locally I find I use a hand-me-down chart book. At home I have a couple "big dream" charts like NGA Chart 108.  

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2 hours ago, Elegua said:

Why mess with it? Looks and functions well.

BTW I think I have the same knife in there with the cork screw.  I have paper for RI to Eastport. I don't like rolled charts so I store them folded under the settee. Locally I find I use a hand-me-down chart book. At home I have a couple "big dream" charts like NGA Chart 108.  

My favorite BIL gave me that knife. He said it was a bread slicer blade. Vicious looking thing, I've twice used it to cut pot warp (and no bread). 

 

I still keep them at home. I prefer the really old ones there. Alas, I haven't penciled my location on one since Hector was a pup. 

MaryAnneYoung035.thumb.jpg.d5b7f9721831c72d3258a5627ef5d09d.jpg

 

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1 minute ago, Kris Cringle said:

My favorite BIL gave me that knife. He said it was a bread slicer blade. Vicious looking thing, I've twice used it to cut pot warp (and no bread). 

 

I still keep them at home. I prefer the really old ones there. Alas, I haven't penciled my location on one since Hector was a pup. 

MaryAnneYoung035.thumb.jpg.d5b7f9721831c72d3258a5627ef5d09d.jpg

 

Yeah, and it doesn't lock. I've only used it to kill bagels and bread. 

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On 4/19/2022 at 9:04 AM, Kris Cringle said:

My favorite BIL gave me that knife. He said it was a bread slicer blade. Vicious looking thing, I've twice used it to cut pot warp (and no bread). 

 

I still keep them at home. I prefer the really old ones there. Alas, I haven't penciled my location on one since Hector was a pup. 

MaryAnneYoung035.thumb.jpg.d5b7f9721831c72d3258a5627ef5d09d.jpg

 

Just for a laugh, download all the corrections from the time that chart was put out. 

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  • 4 weeks later...

The last bit for the ice box arrived. A 24" wide Yoga mat. I think it was mentioned here to help insulate the top. I decided it would be a good idea instead of trying to gasket all the moving parts on the hinged lids. The mat which is 3/8" thick should lay flat and covers the entire top from counter trim to lockers. All it needs is a trim to length. Seems it will be unobtrusive - enough, to use. Simple to lift up one half to get into either the fore or aft hatch. 

1987049924_Galleyicebox.thumb.jpg.ee0fd642d097956fea3290f7e11594c1.jpg

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