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One quote from the above-referenced statement:

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“But the insurrection of January 6th was not solely significant for the havoc that it caused, the property destroyed, or the lives it cost. No, January 6th was significant because it was an attack on the seat of our democracy, specifically designed to undermine, interrupt and overturn the most fundamental of democratic processes—an election—on the day its results were to be certified. With each passing day, it becomes more and more clear that the outgoing President of the United States planned and executed the coup attempt, refusing a peaceful transition of power, pressuring election officials and his own administration to overturn results, and organizing a rally and march on the seat of government when his other efforts failed. 

“I know personally what happens when a government fails, civil strife takes hold, and people are displaced. And I know that coup attempts are rarely one-time affairs. 

“In fact, as we speak, Donald Trump’s allies in statehouses across the country are seeking to erect barriers to voting—largely affecting low-income people, people of color, and seniors. If that’s not enough, they are stripping power from nonpartisan election officials and rewriting state laws to seize partisan control over election certification. 

“The next coup is not only possible; it has already begun.

 

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I agree. 1/6 stands completely on its own.  Both sides are making comparisons that don't stand up.  The President did not invite BLM rioters to march to a police station with him being right there wit

December 7, 1941 September 11. 2001 January 6, 2021 Of the three, the last may have been the closest the US has come to being overthrown. And the terrorists, traitors, insurrection

You are very wrong. It was MUCH worse than the other two. Japan and Al Qaeda didn't have the tiniest hope in hell of overthrowing the government. All either one of them did is kick a hornet's nest and

Posted Images

2 hours ago, Monkey said:

Nope. One event ended in a bunch of people whining about having to live off eating bologna sandwiches. One of the others ended with Hiroshima and Nagasaki glowing in the dark. 

We haven't seen the end of January 6th yet.  It may end with the memory of the beacon of our former democracy fading in the darkness. 

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28 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

Well over 99.999% of the Japanese population did not attack Pearl Harbor, so no big deal, right?

How many Japanese citizens supported their country in going to war?   
 

That is the claim that the vast majority of Republicans support what happened that day.  

 

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30 minutes ago, Left Shift said:

We haven't seen the end of January 6th yet.  It may end with the memory of the beacon of our former democracy fading in the darkness. 

The lights are flickering in Ronnie’s shining city on a hill.  

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Meanwhile, over at RWNJ Christian fundamentalist Gab.com they are proclaiming the martyrdom of Ashli Babbitt, complaining that the J6 inmates are political prisoners, posting a missive from TFG that repeats the usual stop the steal dog whistles, and complaining that Gettr is stealing their members. 

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Just now, Nice! said:

I condemn out-of-context quotes, no matter what side they are on. This is not helpful.

Not even out of context he changed my actual statement.   But some will play with crayons when they have the intellect of a 4 year old 

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3 hours ago, The Joker said:

Let them have their day.  I agree no restrictions on finding out those involved and punishment as needed.  But this was not some vast right wing conspiracy  to over through the government.  I like most everyone I know was horrified and angry of what happened on 1/6.  As usually happens one side is trying to use this as a club to beat down their political opponents and when that happens the instinct is to fight back and downplay what happened.  I’m guilty of it myself.   Here is my bottom line.  Continue the investigations arrest try and if convicted sentence those involved to punishment.
That said I will not give up on defeating the Democratic Party, at the polls because I fundamentally disagree with the way they want to govern this country.   

That is contradicted by one of Trump's most loyal acolytes, Navarro, in his recent publication about Bannon's "Green Bay Sweep" plan. It not just a vast RW conspiracy, it's a self-admitted vast RW conspiracy. 

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1 hour ago, Ishmael said:

One quote from the above-referenced statement:

 

Fake News.

They were just a tour group.

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5 hours ago, The Joker said:

You really want that civil war don’t you?  

I believe our Constitutional Republic was physically attacked by traitors. 
Those traitors should have been mowed down and those who survived should have been executed. 
The person who sent them to attack the Capitol shouid have been arrested, tried and executed. 
As the person was the POTUS, the Congress shouid have convened THAT AFTERNOON and conducted the trial so the traitorous swine could have been executed at sunrise. 
  In fact, they shouid have used the gallows his fellow traitors erected to kill the Vice President if the United States of America to hang him. 

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5 minutes ago, Gouvernail said:

I believe our Constitutional Republic was physically attacked by traitors. 
Those traitors should have been mowed down and those who survived should have been executed. 
The person who sent them to attack the Capitol shouid have been arrested, tried and executed. 
As the person was the POTUS, the Congress shouid have convened THAT AFTERNOON and conducted the trial so the traitorous swine could have been executed at sunrise. 
  In fact, they shouid have used the gallows his fellow traitors erected to kill the Vice President if the United States of America to hang him. 

Uh ok 

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35 minutes ago, Nice! said:

I condemn out-of-context quotes, no matter what side they are on. This is not helpful.

All should have Random on ignore. He's come out as an anti-semitic conspiracy theorist. 

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4 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

They came very close to nabbing VP Pence. Who knows how that would have played out, I believe they would have killed him. If they had succeeded in delaying the electoral count vote by enough to throw it to the House (not sure of the time frame, but it's not that long), then they would almost certainly have succeeded.

Thanks for your perspective.

To some people, it seems crazy that we have a government controlled by those who agree to give up control voluntarily & peacefully. But whatever you want to say about a republic or a democracy etc etc, that is the real foundation; and that is what is under ongoing attack.

- DSK

If they would have actually killed Pence though, I think the nation's view of them and the day would be drastically altered.

For example, all sorts of RWW were hellbent on destroying the government, killing govt officials, etc back in the 90's.  Similar to the RWW of today, they trained for it in gravy seal style militia drills and what not, and fantasized about the carnage.  A few of those assholes decided to put their money where their mouth was, and blew up the federal building in OKC.  A RWW wet dream right?  Not so much.  Once the gravy seals of the day saw what killing their country men actually looked like, support for their elk went way down.  In fact, that faction of the right was relatively quiet until TFG enabled their fascist tendencies.

Because Jan 6, as truly awful a display as it was, ultimately appeared to be little more than redneck cosplay, about half the country didn't take it to be nearly as bad as it was.

I suspect if there were video of Pence swinging from a gallows outside the capitol building, the thoughts about the day would be far different.  Pence was loved by the base, loved by FOX news et al, and was still the VP at the time.  Him hanging would have immediately turned what was arguably a terrorist act into a blatant terrorist act, and the country would have noticed much the same way they did when OKC happened.  

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4 minutes ago, sail611 said:

If they would have actually killed Pence...

The actual seal-type teams that were on standby would have been there within 90 seconds, and cleared the building within 4 minutes to secure the speaker and the congress-critters.

When I say "cleared', I don't mean evacuated.

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32 minutes ago, The Joker said:

Uh ok 

And people like you who have spent hundreds of hours attempting to aid and support the traitors would be under surveillance or already arrested and tried for treason. 

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3 minutes ago, random. said:

You guys are fucked now.  America is completely fucked.  What happened last year is a trial run, a dressed rehearsal.

That this site tolerates the likes of Joke-off, JZK, Mikey and the rest of the Climate Denial, Anti-vaxxers and Facists who attempt to overthrow an elected President, is all the evidence you need.  Don't give me that free speech bullshit, these people are making money posting this shit here and on social media.

What you are seeing even here, is the very cause of the US melt-down.  Allowing complete bullshit to be propagated, some of you are sucking it up.

Being nice to liars and terrorists doesn't work, but that is exactly what you are doing here.

Once it was fun here, holding a mirror up to the US hypocrisy, now it's not.  It's so obviously convulsing with an autoimmune disease that kicking it now is ... just sad.  The rest of the world is doing it's best to keep clear of the splatter.

But I tell you what.  You just keep playing Joke-off's game, defend his right to be correctly quoted, while he rapes you with rhetoric and helps destroy what's left of your country.  I like to watch.

 

Q7L.gif

 

 

Purposefully misquoting and out-of-context quoting makes you as bad as them.

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1 hour ago, The Joker said:

Not even out of context he changed my actual statement.   But some will play with crayons when they have the intellect of a 4 year old 

Great. Now go answer my previous post (which was addressed to you).

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3 minutes ago, random. said:

You guys are fucked now.  America is completely fucked.  (Snip)

  I like to watch.

 

Q7L.gif

 

 

I was with you until that last sentence. 
it is a lie. Your passionate posts indicate otherwise 

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26 minutes ago, sail611 said:

If they would have actually killed Pence though, I think the nation's view of them and the day would be drastically altered.

For example, all sorts of RWW were hellbent on destroying the government, killing govt officials, etc back in the 90's.  Similar to the RWW of today, they trained for it in gravy seal style militia drills and what not, and fantasized about the carnage.  A few of those assholes decided to put their money where their mouth was, and blew up the federal building in OKC.  A RWW wet dream right?  Not so much.  Once the gravy seals of the day saw what killing their country men actually looked like, support for their elk went way down.  In fact, that faction of the right was relatively quiet until TFG enabled their fascist tendencies.

Because Jan 6, as truly awful a display as it was, ultimately appeared to be little more than redneck cosplay, about half the country didn't take it to be nearly as bad as it was.

I suspect if there were video of Pence swinging from a gallows outside the capitol building, the thoughts about the day would be far different.  Pence was loved by the base, loved by FOX news et al, and was still the VP at the time.  Him hanging would have immediately turned what was arguably a terrorist act into a blatant terrorist act, and the country would have noticed much the same way they did when OKC happened.  

The Former Guy was just looking for an opportunity to invoke the Insurrection Act/Martial Law.  And, we know he had folks at the Pentagon ready to do his bidding. 

It would've been ugly.  And, there is no way you can be sure of the outcome.

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23 minutes ago, sail611 said:

If they would have actually killed Pence though, I think the nation's view of them and the day would be drastically altered.

This is imagining that there’s some live Republicans haven’t crossed which by virtue of their not having crossed it makes them ok.

No, they nominated and voted for Shitstain, twice. He was a monstrous disaster of a president. It was a symbiotic race to the bottom between Shitstain and his elk. But somehow if they’d have offed Pence suddenly Ding Dong The Witch Is Dead breaks out in unison?

Some jagoff attacked health care workers down in Tustin who were only trying to keep people alive. Where is the national ground swell?
 

You can imagine these nutjobs haven’t crossed a line. They’ve already crossed many.

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I have come to believe the proper way to communicate with extremists is to show them the opposite extreme.

Why?

Extremists generally consider ANYONE  who is not just as extreme to be on the other side. 
Illustrating the extreme opposite side gives the extremist much more room to back off “just part way.”

 

pick up some old newspapers and study. 

 

The right side has been moving further right for the last fifty years.  Current  Democrats are mostly right of Nelson Rockefeller and much much closer to Nixon than McGovern.  Barry Goldwater was way to the left of FAUX news. 
 


 

 

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8 minutes ago, Gouvernail said:

And people like you who have spent hundreds of hours attempting to aid and support the traitors would be under surveillance or already arrested and tried for treason. 

Sure thing Gov.  I used to consider you a relatively fair poster.  But you have clearly gone over the edge. 

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3 hours ago, Ishmael said:

If I had any respect for Joker before, it would have vaporized by now. Since I can't get into negative numbers, I'll just have to get by with calling him a treasonous asshole.

and a misguided back-stabbing cunt.

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1 hour ago, Nice! said:

The actual seal-type teams that were on standby would have been there within 90 seconds, and cleared the building within 4 minutes to secure the speaker and the congress-critters.

When I say "cleared', I don't mean evacuated.

I don’t disagree. There’s no way everyone wasn’t on high alert that day. If they had felt there was a real threat to anyone “important,” we would have seen a much nastier response. It was actually a remarkably well handled situation by the Capital Police, Secret Service, etc. 

Like it or not, this wasn’t some brilliant conspiracy. It was a mob of amped up idiots inspired by an orange idiot and shitty propaganda. Just look at how most of them got caught. They posed for Facebook pictures instead of pursuing their supposed goal. Third world countries are laughing at anyone who tries to call that a proper coup!  I give these muppets about as much credit as the idiots who wanted to storm Area 51. 

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Just now, Monkey said:

Like it or not, this wasn’t some brilliant conspiracy.

Nope, it was a poorly-executed conspiracy. It was full of incompetence, because that's Trump's pattern. But quality of self-coup conspiracy aside, it was a self-coup conspiracy.

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1 minute ago, Monkey said:

I don’t disagree. There’s no way everyone wasn’t on high alert that day. If they had felt there was a real threat to anyone “important,” we would have seen a much nastier response. It was actually a remarkably well handled situation by the Capital Police, Secret Service, etc. 

Like it or not, this wasn’t some brilliant conspiracy. It was a mob of amped up idiots inspired by an orange idiot and shitty propaganda. Just look at how most of them got caught. They posed for Facebook pictures instead of pursuing their supposed goal. Third world countries are laughing at anyone who tries to call that a proper coup!  I give these muppets about as much credit as the idiots who wanted to storm Area 51. 

Which is why many of the Capitol police were left uninjured and haven't left their jobs subsequently due to PTSD.  Right, well handled.

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Just now, Nice! said:

Nope, it was a poorly-executed conspiracy. It was full of incompetence, because that's Trump's pattern. But quality of self-coup conspiracy aside, it was a self-coup conspiracy.

No argument there. 

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5 hours ago, AJ Oliver said:

Beneath that sometimes reasonable seeming exterior 

beats the heart of a hyper-partisan Riech Wing psycho. 

He's good like Dog before him. 

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1 minute ago, Left Shift said:

Which is why many of the Capitol police were left uninjured and haven't left their jobs subsequently due to PTSD.  Right, well handled.

They absolutely got the shit end of the deal. 

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4 hours ago, The Joker said:


That is the claim that the vast majority of Republicans support what happened that day.  
 

I am waiting for the GOP rank-and-file to stand in opposition to the bullshit being spread by these two (and others).  Absent that, the party embraces their stance.

Trump loyalists push Jan. 6 fictions, but reality intrudes

The “fedsurrection,” as Gaetz has taken to calling it, implicated the FBI and those at the Justice Department supposedly set on covering it up. “They don’t answer the questions that can get to the truth,” Gaetz charged of the DOJ, which, in an unrelated matter, is investigating him in a sex trafficking scheme. Testimony from arrested rioters and evidence released by the House select committee investigating the riot have failed to convince many Republicans that Trump and his supporters were responsible for the attack or that it was even especially grave; 36 percent of Republicans say that the attack on the Capitol, which left five people dead, was “mostly peaceful,” despite ample evidence to the contrary.

A few Republicans have spoken up on behalf of reality, only to be knocked down for doing so. The day before the anniversary, Sen. Ted Cruz of Texas, whose objections to ratifying Biden’s win amplified what would have been that day’s routine proceedings, called last year’s riot a “terrorist attack.” That earned him a swift rebuke from Trumpists like Tucker Carlson, who has been sowing doubt about Jan. 6 on his nightly Fox News show.

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2 hours ago, Monkey said:

I don’t disagree. There’s no way everyone wasn’t on high alert that day. If they had felt there was a real threat to anyone “important,” we would have seen a much nastier response. It was actually a remarkably well handled situation by the Capital Police, Secret Service, etc. 

Like it or not, this wasn’t some brilliant conspiracy. It was a mob of amped up idiots inspired by an orange idiot and shitty propaganda. Just look at how most of them got caught. They posed for Facebook pictures instead of pursuing their supposed goal. Third world countries are laughing at anyone who tries to call that a proper coup!  I give these muppets about as much credit as the idiots who wanted to storm Area 51. 

You're ignoring all the planning that went into it. In early December, Trump went down the ranks of his never-approved-by-the-Senate appointments and purged the "acting this-and-that" and the "temporary etc etc" especially including the Assistant Secretary of the Army, with people who were more trustworthy to support Trump no matter what. With instructions to NOT send military, national guard, etc etc, into any civil disturbance without clearance from higher up.

The meetings with the Proud Boy and other militia.

The after-hours tours of the Capitol the week preceding.

The "rioters" going to specific places looking for specific people; and especially the ones searching for the electoral college ballot box, which they apparently had complete instructions on, but was fortunately removed to safety by a clear-thinking aide.

Look up any/all the above in decent news sources, don't take my word for it.

I agree it wasn't a brilliant conspiracy, but it was most definitely a coup attempt and it was most definitely a conspiracy.

- DSK

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Where were all the republican patriots today? Were they on the hill in solidarity with the rest of the nation in condemnation of the actions of 1 year ago today?

Imagine if nearly one half of the congress refused to stand in reverential respect for the victims on 9/11/02.... Or 12/07/42...

JUST IMAGINE THE OUTRAGE!

 But there is none, because TFG has made outrageous, the new normal. This is why we have mass shootings nearly every week, and children shooting children in schools..... It's the way it is.

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3 minutes ago, The Joker said:
5 minutes ago, Cal20sailor said:

42?  Fix it and I'll delete this post.

In his defense he is using the one year anniversary. 

Same with 9/11/02

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4 hours ago, Monkey said:

They absolutely got the shit end of the deal. 

The Capital Police folks really took one for the team/herd  . .  Hats Doffed !!  

They may well have saved our sorry-assed ol' republic 

image.jpeg.582198f6dc1ed00c73b2e55c0b301d14.jpeg

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21 hours ago, The Joker said:

To be honest the videos looked very similar to all the other riots and protests in this country.  The only difference was the flags, chants and lack of burning cars and buildings. 

You forgot the fact that they were attempting to overthrow the US government.  You know, sedition, treason.  Stuff like that.  Kind of a little bigger deal than breaking the window on a 7-11 and stealing cigarettes.  At least for us Americans it is.

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15 hours ago, random. said:

You guys are fucked now.  America is completely fucked.  What happened last year is a trial run, a dressed rehearsal.

That this site tolerates the likes of Joke-off, JZK, Mikey and the rest of the Climate Denial, Anti-vaxxers and Facists who attempt to overthrow an elected President, is all the evidence you need.  Don't give me that free speech bullshit, these people are making money posting this shit here and on social media.

What you are seeing even here, is the very cause of the US melt-down.  Allowing complete bullshit to be propagated, some of you are sucking it up.

Being nice to liars and terrorists doesn't work, but that is exactly what you are doing here.

Once it was fun here, holding a mirror up to the US hypocrisy, now it's not.  It's so obviously convulsing with an autoimmune disease that kicking it now is ... just sad.  The rest of the world is doing it's best to keep clear of the splatter.

But I tell you what.  You just keep playing Joke-off's game, defend his right to be correctly quoted, while he rapes you with rhetoric and helps destroy what's left of your country.  I like to watch.

 

Q7L.gif

 

 

Everyone knows there is big money in posting dissent on one of the most important political discussion forums on the internet, Political Anarchy.  

I have to admit that delusion like this is one of the reasons I keep coming back.  I realize this is a very tired and over used statement, but you just can't make this shit up.

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30 minutes ago, Jules said:

You forgot the fact that they were attempting to overthrow the US government.  You know, sedition, treason.  Stuff like that.  Kind of a little bigger deal than breaking the window on a 7-11 and stealing cigarettes.  At least for us Americans it is.

The idea that you think that Jan 6 was an actual attempt at overthrowing a government is the very sort of delusion that I am referencing in my previous post.  

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5 minutes ago, jzk said:

The idea that you think that Jan 6 was an actual attempt at overthrowing a government is the very sort of delusion that I am referencing in my previous post.  

Opposite Speak.

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4 minutes ago, jzk said:

The idea that you think that Jan 6 was a an actual failed attempt at overthrowing a government is  the very sort of delusion that I am referencing in my previous post. correct.

FIFY

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15 hours ago, Olsonist said:

This is imagining that there’s some live Republicans haven’t crossed which by virtue of their not having crossed it makes them ok.

No, they nominated and voted for Shitstain, twice. He was a monstrous disaster of a president. It was a symbiotic race to the bottom between Shitstain and his elk. But somehow if they’d have offed Pence suddenly Ding Dong The Witch Is Dead breaks out in unison?

Some jagoff attacked health care workers down in Tustin who were only trying to keep people alive. Where is the national ground swell?
 

You can imagine these nutjobs haven’t crossed a line. They’ve already crossed many.

I was more referring to FOX news et al. as well as the contemptuous conservative congress critters trying to downplay the day.  It would be really hard for them to claim the attempted coup was anything but a terrorist act with Pence swinging from the gallows.  Collectively, they like Pence.  If he would have gone down, I have no doubt McConnel, Cruz, Nunes, etc would have some different things to say about the events of the day.

I also think the national messaging and opinion would be different.  There are surely moderate republicans who are seemingly indifferent about the day because "tax cuts" and the evangelicals who voted Trump because "abortion".  But things change when you kill people.  Especially Pence.  He is one of the Evangelicals and carries weight in that community.  

Or maybe I am totally wrong, and the right wing in this country wouldn't have cared at all if they killed Pence during the coup.  In which case, wow.  This place is more fucked up than I thought.

Here's to optimism though eh?

Long may your big jib draw boys.

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2 minutes ago, sail611 said:

I was more referring to FOX news et al. as well as the contemptuous conservative congress critters trying to downplay the day.  It would be really hard for them to claim the attempted coup was anything but a terrorist act with Pence swinging from the gallows.  Collectively, they like Pence.  If he would have gone down, I have no doubt McConnel, Cruz, Nunes, etc would have some different things to say about the events of the day.

I also think the national messaging and opinion would be different.  There are surely moderate republicans who are seemingly indifferent about the day because "tax cuts" and the evangelicals who voted Trump because "abortion".  But things change when you kill people.  Especially Pence.  He is one of the Evangelicals and carries weight in that community.  

Or maybe I am totally wrong, and the right wing in this country wouldn't have cared at all if they killed Pence during the coup.  In which case, wow.  This place is more fucked up than I thought.

Here's to optimism though eh?

Long may your big jib draw boys.

The problem with your position is that it was actually impossible for that group to overthrow the government no matter what they did.  Impossible.  Unless you think taking selfies in the capital is how one sets up a new government.

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12 hours ago, Bus Driver said:

36 percent of Republicans say that the attack on the Capitol, which left five people dead, was “mostly peaceful,” despite ample evidence to the contrary.

The brain-washing through continuous propaganda has been stunningly effective.   

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1 minute ago, Bus Driver said:

It seems jzk is one of those who believes if a plan fails, it wasn't really a plan.

What was the plan?  How was this "new government" going to play out?  

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16 hours ago, Gouvernail said:

I believe our Constitutional Republic was physically attacked by traitors. 
Those traitors should have been mowed down and those who survived should have been executed. 
The person who sent them to attack the Capitol shouid have been arrested, tried and executed. 
As the person was the POTUS, the Congress shouid have convened THAT AFTERNOON and conducted the trial so the traitorous swine could have been executed at sunrise. 
  In fact, they shouid have used the gallows his fellow traitors erected to kill the Vice President if the United States of America to hang him. 

This is great.  This kind of post is made here, and no one really has much to say about it.

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15 hours ago, The Joker said:

Sure thing Gov.  I used to consider you a relatively fair poster.  But you have clearly gone over the edge. 

Ha!!! Traitors like you are the ones over the edge!!

You are attempting to downplay tte actions if those who attempted to use violence to overthrow an ejection. 
 

Your hypocrisy is beyond absurd. Just months ago it was folks like you who were whining about the Republican appointed Republican run  mueller investigation being an attempt to overthrow an election 

but… in your traitorous mind, it is just fine to violently  assault our Capitol. . 
 

you should be locked up, tried, and, if found guilty of fomenting violence against our. Institutional republic, exterminated. 

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11 minutes ago, jzk said:

The problem with your position is that it was actually impossible for that group to overthrow the government no matter what they did.  Impossible.  Unless you think taking selfies in the capital is how one sets up a new government.

Yeah… they weren’t there to interrupt the proper completion of the election of the POTUS. They were just tourists. 
You should be tried for treason 

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1 minute ago, Gouvernail said:

Ha!!! Traitors like you are the ones over the edge!!

You are attempting to downplay tte actions if those who attempted to use violence to overthrow an ejection. 
 

Your hypocrisy is beyond absurd. Just months ago it was folks like you who were whining about the Republican appointed Republican run  mueller investigation being an attempt to overthrow an election 

but… in your traitorous mind, it is just fine to violently  assault our Capitol. . 
 

you should be locked up, tried, and, if found guilty of fomenting violence against our. Institutional republic, exterminated. 

Someone advocating the death penalty for posting an opposing view on political anarchy.  

It is most certainly not "fine" to break into the capital to post selfies.  But not a capital offence either.  

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6 minutes ago, jzk said:

This is great.  This kind of post is made here, and no one really has much to say about it.

All the patriots agree with the post. It is only you traitors who are threatened  by it. 

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1 minute ago, Gouvernail said:

Yeah… they weren’t there to interrupt the proper completion of the election of the POTUS. They were just tourists. 
You should be tried for treason 

Yes, "interrupt" and "overthrow" are basically synonyms.  It seems that, at best, they were trying to be a nuisance.  Nothing that a seal team couldn't have sorted out in like 6 minutes.

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1 minute ago, jzk said:

Someone advocating the death penalty for posting an opposing view on political anarchy.  

It is most certainly not "fine" to break into the capital to post selfies.  But not a capital offence either.  

They didn’t break in to take selfies. Quit your lies you America hating traitor 

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1 minute ago, Gouvernail said:

All the patriots agree with the post. It is only you traitors who are threatened  by it. 

I really haven't seen anyone else advocate executing a sitting president of the United States on the morning of January 7th.  Pretty much just you.

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Just now, jzk said:

Yes, "interrupt" and "overthrow" are basically synonyms.  It seems that, at best, they were trying to be a nuisance.  Nothing that a seal team couldn't have sorted out in like 6 minutes.

As well they should have but the acting Commander in Chief was a co conspirator and traitor just like you 

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Just now, Gouvernail said:

As well they should have but the acting Commander in Chief was a co conspirator and traitor just like you 

I think I am starting to see the problem.  Do you know the definition of basic words like "conspirator?"

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1 minute ago, jzk said:

I really haven't seen anyone else advocate executing a sitting president of the United States on the morning of January 7th.  Pretty much just you.

FAUX news s ad bd your other right wing whacko traitor sources who hate America don’t suggest hanging their co- conspirators 

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8 minutes ago, Gouvernail said:

Ha!!! Traitors like you are the ones over the edge!!

You are attempting to downplay tte actions if those who attempted to use violence to overthrow an ejection. 
 

Your hypocrisy is beyond absurd. Just months ago it was folks like you who were whining about the Republican appointed Republican run  mueller investigation being an attempt to overthrow an election 

but… in your traitorous mind, it is just fine to violently  assault our Capitol. . 
 

you should be locked up, tried, and, if found guilty of fomenting violence against our. Institutional republic, exterminated. 

Ok into the timeout room you go.  

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1 minute ago, jzk said:

I think I am starting to see the problem.  Do you know the definition of basic words like "conspirator?"

Your attempts to deflect attention from your traitorous writings shall not work. 
 

you hate America. Admit it. 

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1 minute ago, The Joker said:

Ok into the timeout room you go.  

Republican/ traitor goes for  WOKE and cancel culture!!

  Be nice to those of us who hate Tge constitutional republic or we will cancel you!!

 

Ha!!! America will survive after your kind is routed!!! 

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I continue to believe the intention of the planners was to get things to the point the President would invoke the Insurrection Act and/or Martial Law.  We know he had installed loyalists in the Pentagon.

Just because it didn't get that far, doesn't mean it wasn't possible.

But, jzk and the rest of The Faithful was everyone to just move on, like nothing happened.

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12 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

I continue to believe the intention of the planners was to get things to the point the President would invoke the Insurrection Act and/or Martial Law.  We know he had installed loyalists in the Pentagon.

Just because it didn't get that far, doesn't mean it wasn't possible.

But, jzk and the rest of The Faithful was everyone to just move on, like nothing happened.

Peter Novarro, one of Trump's personal team of public liars, said that the insurrectionists actually fucked up a perfectly good plan; to have the joint session devolve into a shit-slinging shouting match and throw the actual selection of the President to the House, per the US Constitution, where the majority of Republican states (one state, one vote for this particular procedure) would choose Trump.

And having insurrectionists break in and smear shit all over the place didn't actually hurt that plan IMHO, other than give a few Republicans temporary backbone to defy him.

Plan B- some of the insurrectionists were apparently well briefed on the procedure and were searching for the Electoral College ballot box. Fortunately, a smart aide removed it to safety or they would have gotten it. Destroy the Electoral College ballots and the election goes to the House, see above.

Plan C- Succeed in overwhelming the Capitol and kidnapping at least a number of Congresscritters and hopefully VP Pence. Play out the scenario as you like from there, it came scarily close to succeeding thanks to the disrupt/delay of Trumpists in the security/LEO organizations.

IMHO if the mob had gotten their hands on any Congresscritters, they would have killed them pretty quickly. It was really out of control.

Anywhere along the line, the President could have declared martial law and tried to have his armed loyalists in various agencies (the Border Patrol is riddled with the fuckers) prevent the regular gov't from functioning; and stayed in office.

It was a disorganized mess of plans, relying on the unreasoning rage and blind loyalty Trump seems to inspire in so many. It also lets you know exactly how they "governed" the country, and what the former USA would look like today if they'd succeeded.

- DSK

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31 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

I continue to believe the intention of the planners was to get things to the point the President would invoke the Insurrection Act and/or Martial Law.  We know he had installed loyalists in the Pentagon.

Just because it didn't get that far, doesn't mean it wasn't possible.

But, jzk and the rest of The Faithful was everyone to just move on, like nothing happened.

Seems like some harsh penalties are being handed down to the selfie takers.  Hardly "moving on" like nothing happened.  But what about those two guys that were actively directing and inciting people to go into the capitol?  Why haven't charges been brought against them?  Why just the selfie taking grandmothers that are charged?

Why didn't the President invoke said insurrection Act?  Looks like there are no shortage of people that actually believe this was a real attempt on overthrowing the government.  

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1 hour ago, sail611 said:

I was more referring to FOX news et al. as well as the contemptuous conservative congress critters trying to downplay the day.  It would be really hard for them to claim the attempted coup was anything but a terrorist act with Pence swinging from the gallows.  Collectively, they like Pence.  If he would have gone down, I have no doubt McConnel, Cruz, Nunes, etc would have some different things to say about the events of the day.

I also think the national messaging and opinion would be different.  There are surely moderate republicans who are seemingly indifferent about the day because "tax cuts" and the evangelicals who voted Trump because "abortion".  But things change when you kill people.  Especially Pence.  He is one of the Evangelicals and carries weight in that community.  

Or maybe I am totally wrong, and the right wing in this country wouldn't have cared at all if they killed Pence during the coup.  In which case, wow.  This place is more fucked up than I thought.

Here's to optimism though eh?

Long may your big jib draw boys.

There was a pause in the Fox/Rush vitriol after the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing. But just a pause.

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3 minutes ago, Blue Crab said:

This isn't free speech.

What are you talking about?  My question is why the 2 serious instigators weren't charged.

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4 minutes ago, Olsonist said:
1 hour ago, sail611 said:

I was more referring to FOX news et al. as well as the contemptuous conservative congress critters trying to downplay the day.  It would be really hard for them to claim the attempted coup was anything but a terrorist act with Pence swinging from the gallows.  Collectively, they like Pence.  If he would have gone down, I have no doubt McConnel, Cruz, Nunes, etc would have some different things to say about the events of the day.

I also think the national messaging and opinion would be different.  There are surely moderate republicans who are seemingly indifferent about the day because "tax cuts" and the evangelicals who voted Trump because "abortion".  But things change when you kill people.  Especially Pence.  He is one of the Evangelicals and carries weight in that community.  

Or maybe I am totally wrong, and the right wing in this country wouldn't have cared at all if they killed Pence during the coup.  In which case, wow.  This place is more fucked up than I thought.

Here's to optimism though eh?

Long may your big jib draw boys.

Expand  

Expand  

There was a pause in the Fox/Rush vitriol after the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing. But just a pause.

After the Gabby Giffords shooting, Glen Beck backed away from inciting insurrection and fomenting RWNJ violence. Guess what, less than a year later, he's back in the saddle spewing the same hateful bullshit.

Rep Jamie Raskin (D-Md) has been saying, in history there are no examples of right-wing fascist movements being successfully opposed by a single party or a single political alignment. It can only be successfully opposed by a coalition.

One point we should not miss, the fascists/Trumpists are themselves a coalition. And it's actually a very unstable bunch, IMHO they can't successfully rule the USA (they make it obvious they have no interest in governing America) because they'll start shooting each other the day after they succeed to power.

Success in keeping America depends on peeling away as many of those who currently lean Trump as we can.

- DSK

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10 minutes ago, jzk said:

... My question is why the 2 serious instigators weren't charged.

Are you 100% certain they will never be?

Who would you name as "the 2 serious instigators"?

- DSK

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14 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:
26 minutes ago, jzk said:

... My question is why the 2 serious instigators weren't charged.

Are you 100% certain they will never be?

Who would you name as "the 2 serious instigators"?

- DSK

As AG Garland said, they will hold everyone involved to account.  The wheels of justice turn slowly.  

A better way of saying this is "They have not been charged.....yet."

 

And, when they are, jzk will likely say "they should have been charged sooner".

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1 minute ago, Bus Driver said:

As AG Garland said, they will hold everyone involved to account.  The wheels of justice turn slowly.  

A better way of saying this is "They have not been charged.....yet."

 

And, when they are, jzk will likely say "they should have been charged sooner".

Am I allowed to say that they should have been charged sooner?  Or is that a capital crime as well?

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6 minutes ago, jzk said:

Am I allowed to say that they should have been charged sooner?  Or is that a capital crime as well?

On whom would you lay the charge of being "the 2 serious instigators" that should have been charged sooner?

- DSK

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32 minutes ago, jzk said:

What are you talking about?  My question is why the 2 serious instigators weren't charged.

More of the deflection by the traitor who hates America.. Nobody is trying to charge innocent tourist selfie takers with anything.

it is the criminals who ran roughshod over the Capitol police, broke windows, smashed doors, and charged into the Capitol Building as part of a pathetic plot to stop our Constitutional Republic’s elected officials from doing the business of the government of We The People.

You really do deserve to be arrested and  tried for your continued role in supporting those other Anti American traitors. 

I

 

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1 hour ago, jzk said:

Someone advocating the death penalty for posting an opposing view on political anarchy.  

It is most certainly not "fine" to break into the capital to post selfies.  But not a capital offence either.  

Except those people didn't break into the capitol to take selfies.  They broke into the capitol to stop the counting of electoral votes.  They tried to stop democracy.  Some would consider this treason.  Others would say "well, they went in their with the intent to prevent the will of the people from becoming reality, but since they failed, and only succeed in taking selfies, no problem, no crime."  

I think those people fail to realize that just because one is not successful in committing a crime, one cannot be charged with the crime.  Like if a person walked into the bank, told the teller "I have a gun, give me all the money in your drawer," and the teller said "NO," at which point person left the bank, that person could be charged with attempted robbery, right? 

 

Or is Niet Spacido Tovarish a better response?

 

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9 minutes ago, jzk said:

Am I allowed to say that they should have been charged sooner?  Or is that a capital crime as well?

You can say pretty much anything you please. The country you hate so much has freedom of speech. 
Our constitutional republic does not offer  freedom to assault people, break into buildings, and interrupt the performance of elected official who are doing their jobs.

neither does it offer freedom to aid those who are attempting to overthrow our government …. Yet you have been doing so. 

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3 minutes ago, Gouvernail said:

You can say pretty much anything you please. The country you hate so much has freedom of speech. 
Our constitutional republic does not offer  freedom to assault people, break into buildings, and interrupt the performance of elected official who are doing their jobs.

neither does it offer freedom to aid those who are attempting to overthrow our government …. Yet you have been doing so. 

You are accusing me of attempting to overthrow our government?

The delusion never ends with you. 

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9 minutes ago, sail611 said:

Except those people didn't break into the capitol to take selfies.  They broke into the capitol to stop the counting of electoral votes.  They tried to stop democracy.  Some would consider this treason.  Others would say "well, they went in their with the intent to prevent the will of the people from becoming reality, but since they failed, and only succeed in taking selfies, no problem, no crime."  

I think those people fail to realize that just because one is not successful in committing a crime, one cannot be charged with the crime.  Like if a person walked into the bank, told the teller "I have a gun, give me all the money in your drawer," and the teller said "NO," at which point person left the bank, that person could be charged with attempted robbery, right? 

 

Or is Niet Spacido Tovarish a better response?

 

So they were just super incompetent?

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2 minutes ago, Nice! said:

Like this.

Washington (CNN)A conservative lawyer working with then-President Donald Trump's legal team tried to convince then-Vice President Mike Pence that he could overturn the election results on January 6 when Congress counted the Electoral College votes by throwing out electors from seven states, according to the new book "Peril" from Washington Post journalists Bob Woodward and Robert Costa.

The scheme put forward by controversial lawyer John Eastman was outlined in a two-page memo obtained by the authors for "Peril," and which was subsequently obtained by CNN. The memo, which has not previously been made public, provides new detail showing how Trump and his team tried to persuade Pence to subvert the Constitution and throw out the election results on January 6.
The effort to sway Pence was just one of several behind-the-scenes attempts that Trump's team undertook ahead of January 6 in a desperate bid to overturn the 2020 election loss, after dozens of lawsuits were thrown out of the courts. "Peril," which will be released Tuesday, details how Eastman's memo was sent to GOP Sen. Mike Lee of Utah and how Trump attorney Rudy Giuliani tried to convince fellow Republican Sen. Lindsey Graham of South Carolina of election fraud. But both Lee and Graham scoffed at the arguments and found they had no merit.
"You might as well make your case to Queen Elizabeth II. Congress can't do this. You're wasting your time," Lee said to Trump's lawyers trying to overturn the results in Georgia, according to the book.
 
 
The Eastman memo laid out a six-step plan for Pence to overturn the election for Trump, which included throwing out the results in seven states because they allegedly had competing electors. In fact, no state had actually put forward an alternate slate of electors -- there were merely Trump allies claiming without any authority to be electors.
Under Eastman's scheme, Pence would have declared Trump the winner with more Electoral College votes after the seven states were thrown out, at 232 votes to 222. Anticipating "howls" from Democrats protesting the overturning of the election, the memo proposes, Pence would instead say that no candidate had reached 270 votes in the Electoral College. That would throw the election to the House of Representatives, where each state would get one vote. Since Republicans controlled 26 state delegations, a majority could vote for Trump to win the election.
The plan was first proposed to Pence when Eastman was with Trump in the Oval Office on January 4, during one of Trump's attempts to convince Pence that he had the authority to stop the certification of the election.
"You really need to listen to John. He's a respected constitutional scholar. Hear him out," Trump said to Pence at that meeting, Woodward and Costa write in "Peril."
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In the memo, Eastman went so far as to suggest Pence should take action without warning.
"The main thing here is that Pence should do this without asking for permission -- either from a vote of the joint session or from the Court," Eastman wrote. "The fact is that the Constitution assigns this power to the Vice President as the ultimate arbiter. We should take all of our actions with that in mind."
In the end, Pence didn't go along with Eastman's scheme, concluding that the Constitution did not give him any power beyond counting the Electoral College votes. He did his own consultations before January 6, according to the book, reaching out to former Vice President Dan Quayle and the Senate parliamentarian, who were both clear in telling him he had no authority beyond counting the votes.
When Pence refused to intervene, Trump turned on his vice president, attacking him on Twitter even as the insurrection at the Capitol was unfolding on January 6.
The memo could be of interest to the House select committee now investigating the January 6 attack on the Capitol, which recently requested documents from the National Archives that specifically included communications involving Eastman.
"It shows intent, a sophisticated plan, a blueprint to illegally and unconstitutionally overturn and steal the election" by Trump and his team based on false and misleading information and legal arguments, a source familiar with the investigation told CNN.

'Lee's head was spinning'

Eastman spoke at the January 6 rally that preceded the attack on the Capitol. He retired from his position as a professor at Chapman University a week after January 6, which occurred amid protests from faculty at the Southern California university over his participation in Trump's efforts to overturn the election.
Eastman told the Washington Post that his memo merely "explored all options that had been proposed." In an interview on Tuesday, Eastman told CNN that the two-page memo had been only a preliminary draft. He provided CNN with a longer six-page memo laying out numerous other scenarios for Pence to follow on January 6. Eastman told CNN that during the January 4 meeting he'd had in the Oval Office with Trump and Pence, he had told Pence he should only delay certifying votes in the seven states, not try to throw the election to Trump.
The reality, however, is that a delay was simply another avenue to stop Biden from taking office.
Eastman said he had told Pence it was an open question whether he had the authority to unilaterally set aside slates of electors, but that it would be "foolish" to exercise that power because state legislatures had not certified the alternate slates put forward by Trump allies.
As part of the efforts of Trump's team to convince Congress not to certify the election, the initial two-page Eastman memo was given to Lee, one of the Senate's top Republican constitutional authorities. At the same time, Giuliani sent multiple memos to Graham trying to convince him that the claims of election fraud coming from Trump's team were legitimate.
The memos show how even some of Trump's closest allies balked at the measures Trump's team was taking behind the scenes to try to overturn his loss to Biden. But while Lee and Graham heard out the cases from Trump's lawyers, they soundly rejected their claims, Woodward and Costa write.
Lee was shocked by the claims the memo was making, since no state had considered, let alone put forward, any alternate slates of electors. "Lee's head was spinning," the authors write. "No such procedure existed in the Constitution, any law or past practice. Eastman had apparently drawn it out of thin air."
Lee also dismissed the Trump team's arguments that it had a case to overturn the election results in Georgia, saying they had to be made in court.

'Third grade'

Woodward and Costa also obtained several memos Giuliani sent to Graham to try to convince him of election fraud in Georgia and other states. CNN has also obtained those memos.
The authors write that on January 2, Giuliani briefed Graham at the White House. Giuliani presented a statistical analysis arguing Biden's win was impossible, but Graham dismissed Giuliani's evidence as too abstract. "Give me some names. You need to put it in writing. You need to show me the evidence," Graham said, according to the book.
Giuliani then sent Graham several memos and affidavits claiming fraud. But when Graham's chief Judiciary Committee counsel Lee Holmes went over the claims, he found they were sloppy, overbearing and "added up to nothing," Woodward and Costa write. "Holmes reported to Graham that the data in the memos were a concoction, with a bullying tone and eighth grade writing."
"Third grade," Graham responded, according to the book. "I can get an affidavit tomorrow saying the world is flat."
Giuliani did not respond to a request for comment.
Trump has continued to push baseless claims that the election was stolen from him. Last week, he sent a new letter to Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger claiming he should start the process of decertifying the 2020 election.
Criminal investigators in the state have been investigating Trump's efforts to overturn Georgia's 2020 election results, including an infamous call Trump made to Raffensperger in which Trump urged the secretary of state to "find" more than 11,000 votes that Trump needed to win.
Graham also made a phone call to Raffensperger, which is part of the Fulton County district attorney's probe. Graham has said his call was to understand the process of verifying signatures on mail-in ballots.
This story has