youtuber accused of staging plane crash

[Foreverslow 495]

Fame is like drugs from some folks

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/youtuber-accused-staging-plane-crash-likes-and-views

 

This story is getting a ton of coverage on Youtube from the aviation experts who want to help the FAA clip this dude's wings..

Beside ghe red flag of wearing a parachute, after he landed he hiked up the side of remote mountains to find the plane cameras before looking for help.   As stupid as Juicy Jessie Smollet sitting at home with a noose around his neck and a Subway sandwich on the table as the cops show up.

 

Seems like some cannot accept the fact fame is fleeting..

[guns68 13]

What an idiot! I hope the FAA tacks his hide to the back of the shed. The real shame here is the waste of a vintage aircraft. Thankfully there wasn't a post crash fire, although I'll bet he had minimal fuel on board. 

[βhyde 1,827]

That dry river @ 5:08 in the video looks pretty landable to me. Anyone have the coordinates of the crash site. I'll bet there are several roads or fields within glide range.

[βhyde 1,827]

Gotta love google maps.

From 4:16 in the video:

From google maps:

Directly in front of the plane there is a large, flat field (top picture. middle left). And 1.5 miles behind there is an even larger field (34.8396, -120.0226). This guy is full of shit. A Taylorcraft B stalls at something like 35kts and he's got what looks to be about 8000' of altitude. Any normal pilot would have turned towards the two obvious landing sites and tried to restart the engine until there was no other option, which would be to land. Asshole.

[guns68 13]

Let alone whatever landing sites are behind him. I used to own a Taylorcraft, those things are almost a powered glider. At 8-9000ft. He could have eaten a sandwich, called his mechanic to troubleshoot the problem and set up an Uber before having to commit to a landing site. What a tool. I'm just glad the hills didn't catch fire from the crash. 

Edited January 10 by guns68
Spelling

[βhyde 1,827]

5 hours ago, guns68 said:

Let alone whatever landing sites are behind him. I used to own a Taylorcraft, those things are almost a powered glider. At 8-9000ft. He could have eaten a sandwich, called his mechanic to troubleshoot the problem and set up an Uber before having to commit to a landing site. What a tool. I'm just glad the hills didn't catch fire from the crash. 

Man, I'm really pissed this knucklehead destroyed an 80 year-old vintage aircraft for Youtube hits to stroke his fragile ego. What a dickhead.

[billy backstay 1,674]

14 hours ago, guns68 said:

Let alone whatever landing sites are behind him. I used to own a Taylorcraft, those things are almost a powered glider. At 8-9000ft. He could have eaten a sandwich, called his mechanic to troubleshoot the problem and set up an Uber before having to commit to a landing site. What a tool. I'm just glad the hills didn't catch fire from the crash. 

 

They are known as "influencers" for pimping items for companies to sell more of.  I think dickhead is a better word, as mentioned above.  Terrible waste of a perfectly good classic aircraft.  Also, as mentioned above, I hope the FAA pulls his license, and criminal charges if applicable.....

[Jkdubz808 464]

I hate people.  So many things could have gone wrong, like starting a possible wildfire aside from crashing a perfectly good aircraft.  Completely staged.  What a tool.

[mikewof 1,238]

One other thing ...

He trashed a really nice plane, he will likely lose his license, he may face charges, and everyone hates him for what? 600k-some views?

Pfft ... there are video with puppies licking their assholes that generate more views than that. What a dipshit that guy is.

[floating dutchman 79]

actually

29 minutes ago, mikewof said:

there are video with puppies licking their assholes that generate more views than that.

For once, I hope you didn't actually do any research before posting facts.

[Borax Johnson 107]

Might also be a bit of insurance fraud as well. I'm sure there will be an engine teardown and logbook review.

[mikewof 1,238]

31 minutes ago, floating dutchman said:

actually

For once, I hope you didn't actually do any research before posting facts.

If there is a video of a puppy, I'm going to research it. This puppy has 20 million views and he didn't need to crash a plane into a combustible forest or violate FAA guidelines.

 

[billy backstay 1,674]

1 hour ago, mikewof said:

One other thing ...

He trashed a really nice plane, he will likely lose his license, he may face charges, and everyone hates him for what? 600k-some views?

Pfft ... there are video with puppies licking their assholes that generate more views than that. What a dipshit that guy is.

 

For how much money did the wallet company that he pimped at the beginning pay him??

[Ed Lada 5,090]

I agree that was a real stupid thing to do.  

I don't agree with the numerous comments about destroying a perfectly good plane, other than the fire hazard.  If it was his plane, he can do anything he wants to it.  People are allowed to destroy their own things.  To me that piece of this shit show isn't relevant at all and it's just a silly thing to bitch about.  People destroy perfectly good things all of the time, for all kinds of reasons.  

I think there are better things to be outraged about such as ranting about people ranting about somebody destroying a perfectly good plane.  

[Jkdubz808 464]

4 minutes ago, Ed Lada said:

I agree that was a real stupid thing to do.  

I don't agree with the numerous comments about destroying a perfectly good plane, other than the fire hazard.  If it was his plane, he can do anything he wants to it.  People are allowed to destroy their own things.  To me that piece of this shit show isn't relevant at all and it's just a silly thing to bitch about.  People destroy perfectly good things all of the time, for all kinds of reasons.  

I think there are better things to be outraged about such as ranting about people ranting about somebody destroying a perfectly good plane.  

Thats what a lot of us are angry about.  Its his plane so yes he can do what he wants, but into the hills of California which is NOTORIOUS for wildfires, even in winter, was extremely reckless.  Not to mention the dangers to hikers and backpackers who go deep into those hills to camp and get away from society (I know many that do this), if they were in the wrong place at the wrong this situation could have proved to be deadly.

 

At least thats what I am pissed about.

[Ed Lada 5,090]

5 minutes ago, Jkdubz808 said:

At least thats what I am pissed about.

You are, but the majority of the comments here include that he destroyed a perfectly good airplane.  

And given the fact it is a very old airplane, albeit an iconic one, it might have been in poor condition to begin with.  But whatever, to me it's a silly thing to complain about as opposed for the legitimate thing to complain about.  letting a plane fly itself into the ground is a pretty irresponsible thing to go, given all the potential havoc it could have caused. 

And another thing.  Not long ago a Finnish guy blew up a perfectly good Tesla with a bad battery.  I didn't hear a lot of out cry about blowing up a (almost) perfectly good Tesla..  I'm pretty sure the value of the Tesla even without a good battery was more than that plane.  A quick look on Google shows prices between $5,000 to $30,000.  I'm going to guess that the one that was crashed would be toward the lower end of that range.  

But if they find out he did it on purpose, then Trevor should stand trial and if convicted, spend some time in prison.

[kent_island_sailor 5,280]

7 minutes ago, Ed Lada said:

You are, but the majority of the comments here include that he destroyed a perfectly good airplane.  

And given the fact it is a very old airplane, albeit an iconic one, it might have been in poor condition to begin with.  But whatever, to me it's a silly thing to complain about as opposed for the legitimate thing to complain about.  letting a plane fly itself into the ground is a pretty irresponsible thing to go, given all the potential havoc it could have caused. 

And another thing.  Not long ago a Finnish guy blew up a perfectly good Tesla with a bad battery.  I didn't hear a lot of out cry about blowing up a (almost) perfectly good Tesla..  I'm pretty sure the value of the Tesla even without a good battery was more than that plane.  A quick look on Google shows prices between $5,000 to $30,000.  I'm going to guess that the one that was crashed would be toward the lower end of that range.  

But if they find out he did it on purpose, then Trevor should stand trial and if convicted, spend some time in prison.

I don't care if EVERY Tesla gets blown up, but those old airplanes are in finite supply and now there is one less. Kind of like blowing up a J-Class boat for laughs vs. an old Laser.

[Ed Lada 5,090]

1 minute ago, kent_island_sailor said:

I don't care if EVERY Tesla gets blown up, but those old airplanes are in finite supply and now there is one less. Kind of like blowing up a J-Class boat for laughs vs. an old Laser.

OK, I feel for you, but that's a pretty narrow and subjective view.  I imagine the number of people in the world that are upset that one more Taylorcraft is gone is very small, probably miniscule actually.  Probably even smaller than the small number of people who were upset about blowing up an impotent Tesla.  

First world problems to be sure.

[mathystuff 451]

Took a look at his Youtube. It's full of red flags for him being depressed and suicidal in the video titles alone.

Guy needs help.

[billy backstay 1,674]

23 minutes ago, Ed Lada said:

And another thing.  Not long ago a Finnish guy blew up a perfectly good Tesla with a bad battery.  I didn't hear a lot of out cry about blowing up a (almost) perfectly good Tesla..  I'm pretty sure the value of the Tesla even without a good battery was more than that plane.  A quick look on Google shows prices between $5,000 to $30,000.  I'm going to guess that the one that was crashed would be toward the lower end of that range.  

But if they find out he did it on purpose, then Trevor should stand trial and if convicted, spend some time in prison.

 

IIRC, the OLD Tesla was going to cost more for a new battery than the car was worth! 

Missus BB is driving a 17 YO BMW X3 with 225,000 miles on it and it's only worth $1,500.  If the Catalytic Converters go bad and it won't pass emissions, it's going bye-bye!!  The Cats cost like 3 grand, so I will likely get her a newer, off-lease, low mile X1.  But, she says she wants an old Jeep Wrangler, which is not practical unless it's a 4 door.  Our other two cars are a Hardtop Coupe with no real back seat room, the same as the '02 Nissan Extra Cab truck.  Gotta have one car that will hold 4 adults, for the rare times we might need one. 

[Ed Lada 5,090]

9 minutes ago, mathystuff said:

Took a look at his Youtube. It's full of red flags for him being depressed and suicidal in the video titles alone.

Guy needs help.

There is a certain group pf people that take extreme risks because they need extreme stimulus to feel alive.  There is no DSM diagnosis for that kind of behavior but it can be associated with certain personality disorders, particularly borderline personality disorder.  There is a fine line between high risk occupations, and outright thrill seeking behavior.  Jobs like lumberjacks, working on fishing vessels in harsh climates, firefighters, etc. take steps to mitigate risk but some people are attracted to those jobs and part of the attraction is the risk and some of them might purposely ignore some of the safety features of those jobs and purposely push the limits.  There are people in the military that take big risks in combat, some are legitimate heroes, some might do it for the ultimate rush.  But those kind of people in those kind of jobs are a very small minority.

The Jacob was going to spread some ashes of his friend that died while wing suit flying.  I'm pretty sure of you wing suit fly long enough, you will more than likely die.

I did  a lot of work with suicide and a lot of research on the subject.  I dealt with people with suicidal ideation, attempted suicide and completed suicides, and I did a lot of suicide awareness training.  I helped a fair amount of people decide there were better choices than taking their own life, and I generally believe the majority of 'successful suicides' (I've never liked that term) could have resolved their crisis or other situation more appropriately and lived.  

Having said all of that I am also a strong believer that since we have very little control over the world around us, the one thing, maybe the only thing we have complete control of in our lives is whether we live or die.  I think there are a small number of legitimate reasons for suicide, particularly people who are terminally ill or severely disabled.  It's too bad more states don't have physician assisted suicide laws.  We put down animals to end their suffering and we are loathe to afford the same consideration to allow people to die with dignity.

Trevor Jacob can do as he pleases as long as he doesn't endanger others, it's his life.  He knows his activities can easily lead to his death, and on some level he probably looks forward to it.  he isn't stupid, if he wanted psychiatric help, he would seek it.  You can't lock up suicidal people forever and you can't help people who don't want help.  It's his life, it's his choice.  But he shouldn't be so selfish and stupid as to endanger others because of his thrill seeking behavior.  Or for YouTube clicks and fame  That's just simple sociopathy.  If Jacob ever did seek psychological help, it wouldn't surprise me if he were diagnosed with more than one personality disorder.

 

[kent_island_sailor 5,280]

1 hour ago, Ed Lada said:

OK, I feel for you, but that's a pretty narrow and subjective view.  I imagine the number of people in the world that are upset that one more Taylorcraft is gone is very small, probably miniscule actually.  Probably even smaller than the small number of people who were upset about blowing up an impotent Tesla.  

First world problems to be sure.

Pilots have the same affection for airplanes as sailors have for boats. The dead aircraft is not the worst issue here, this idiot stunt could have easily killed one or more people and it will give the FAA something to do that may very well impact a lot more people than the idiot in the video. That said, how would you feel if I started burning up 12 Meter boats for laughs and hits on my channel?

[olaf hart 779]

2 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

Pilots have the same affection for airplanes as sailors have for boats. The dead aircraft is not the worst issue here, this idiot stunt could have easily killed one or more people and it will give the FAA something to do that may very well impact a lot more people than the idiot in the video. That said, how would you feel if I started burning up 12 Meter boats for laughs and hits on my channel?

You are welcome to burn anything with reverse sheer…

[kent_island_sailor 5,280]

9 minutes ago, olaf hart said:

You are welcome to burn anything with reverse sheer…

THOSE I burn for fun (apologies to Scarface)

[Ed Lada 5,090]

17 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

Pilots have the same affection for airplanes as sailors have for boats. The dead aircraft is not the worst issue here, this idiot stunt could have easily killed one or more people and it will give the FAA something to do that may very well impact a lot more people than the idiot in the video. That said, how would you feel if I started burning up 12 Meter boats for laughs and hits on my channel?

I wouldn't be very happy, but I think I could deal.  I have no control over what idiots do, except scream into the storm as it were.

[mathystuff 451]

48 minutes ago, Ed Lada said:

There is a certain group pf people that take extreme risks because they need extreme stimulus to feel alive.  There is no DSM diagnosis for that kind of behavior but it can be associated with certain personality disorders, particularly borderline personality disorder.  There is a fine line between high risk occupations, and outright thrill seeking behavior.  Jobs like lumberjacks, working on fishing vessels in harsh climates, firefighters, etc. take steps to mitigate risk but some people are attracted to those jobs and part of the attraction is the risk and some of them might purposely ignore some of the safety features of those jobs and purposely push the limits.  There are people in the military that take big risks in combat, some are legitimate heroes, some might do it for the ultimate rush.  But those kind of people in those kind of jobs are a very small minority.

The Jacob was going to spread some ashes of his friend that died while wing suit flying.  I'm pretty sure of you wing suit fly long enough, you will more than likely die.

I did  a lot of work with suicide and a lot of research on the subject.  I dealt with people with suicidal ideation, attempted suicide and completed suicides, and I did a lot of suicide awareness training.  I helped a fair amount of people decide there were better choices than taking their own life, and I generally believe the majority of 'successful suicides' (I've never liked that term) could have resolved their crisis or other situation more appropriately and lived.  

Having said all of that I am also a strong believer that since we have very little control over the world around us, the one thing, maybe the only thing we have complete control of in our lives is whether we live or die.  I think there are a small number of legitimate reasons for suicide, particularly people who are terminally ill or severely disabled.  It's too bad more states don't have physician assisted suicide laws.  We put down animals to end their suffering and we are loathe to afford the same consideration to allow people to die with dignity.

Trevor Jacob can do as he pleases as long as he doesn't endanger others, it's his life.  He knows his activities can easily lead to his death, and on some level he probably looks forward to it.  he isn't stupid, if he wanted psychiatric help, he would seek it.  You can't lock up suicidal people forever and you can't help people who don't want help.  It's his life, it's his choice.  But he shouldn't be so selfish and stupid as to endanger others because of his thrill seeking behavior.  Or for YouTube clicks and fame  That's just simple sociopathy.  If Jacob ever did seek psychological help, it wouldn't surprise me if he were diagnosed with more than one personality disorder.

 

This is a good writeup.

I wasn't refering to the risk seeking behaviour, but to his videos making his grief public (death of a friend, breakup, athlet suicide). He seems to lack a healthy social network keeping him from making such things public.

I agree that you can't force help on someone. It may very well make things worse on average. https://doi.org/10.1111/cpsp.12332

[βhyde 1,827]

Speaking of forced landings. Thread drift warning.

So you managed to execute a forced landing in a heavily populated area, but...

I think if I'm the pilot here, I would just find the nearest bar and drink for the rest of the day. No one would blame you.

[βhyde 1,827]

Oh, and I'm really pissed he destroyed a perfectly good plane...

[Ed Lada 5,090]

52 minutes ago, mathystuff said:

This is a good writeup.

I wasn't refering to the risk seeking behaviour, but to his videos making his grief public (death of a friend, breakup, athlet suicide). He seems to lack a healthy social network keeping him from making such things public.

I agree that you can't force help on someone. It may very well make things worse on average. https://doi.org/10.1111/cpsp.12332

Thanks.

That's an interesting abstract, I'll hve ti see if I can acsess the entire paper.  I have to go to sleep soon tonight.

I haven't been in the business for some years now.  When I worked in outpatient mental health our basic criteria is if the person had a viable plan, and wouldn't contract not to hurt or kill themselves, then we sent them for admission.  The thing that would keep me up at night was sending somebody home, where they had some kind of support, and they would make a verbal or written contract, but there's a wide range of those people.  The ones that could go either way was a tough decision. Because you can't lock up people on a whim either.  I never lost a client so I felt good about that, but if you do it long enough, it's inevitable.  

I can see where people admitted to a psych ward for suicidal ideation or behavior, can be detrimental.  I also worked in in patent psych a big public hospital and in some private residential facilities.  It's like admitting a medical patient to the hospital.  Hospitals are a breeding ground for disease and nosocomial infections are a problem.  The same thing happens to psych patients.  If their suicidal, they're obviously depressed to a degree and throwing them ion to a ward with a lot of severely depressed people isn't always the best place to be.  If there person was committed against their will, they can be angry and resentful and that doesn't help.  But there are people that need admission, or they could well die.  Again, it's the in between folks that make things difficult.  

The most lethal people are the ones that don't mention anything, don't show any outward distress, etc.  They just go somewhere, use very lethal means and die.  Fortunately most people expressing thoughts of suicide don't really want to die and one way or another they behave in a way to attract notice, and they can get the help they need.  I developed a simple training program to give anybody the tools to recognize suicidal ideation signs, and then how to get help for the individual.  The first thing to do if there's any concern, is just ask the person flat out.  They often will readily admit they are thinking of suicide and are grateful that somebody picked up on their hints.  Many people don't ask directly for help.  There are a lot of myths about suicide and I used to debunk those as well. 

The bottom line is if anyone is in doubt about somebody's behavior, ask them, clarify, and then help them to get them help one way or another.  Don't worry about pissing them off, it's better than going to their funeral.  But always be as nice as possible and empathetic about it, being confrontational or calling them stupid for thinking about suicide doesn't help at all.

[Ed Lada 5,090]

15 minutes ago, βhyde said:

Speaking of forced landings. Thread drift warning.

So you managed to execute a forced landing in a heavily populated area, but...

I think if I'm the pilot here, I would just find the nearest bar and drink for the rest of the day. No one would blame you.

No, but they might not like the foul odor of feces from your trousers!

When I watched the video on another YouTube channel earlier today, I didn't realize what the situation was at first.  I was screaming at the cops for being idiots for hurriedly pulling this guy out of the plane which wasn't on fire when he clearly had a head injury, which means you can't rule out a c-spine injury.  My EMT training is still firmly deeply I my brain.  Then I heard the train horn and shortly after the impact, and I thought, "Oh, never mind, they just narrowly saved his life."

I'm going to guess that train-plane collisions are more rare than hen's teeth. 

[bmiller 1,141]

7 minutes ago, Ed Lada said:

No, but they might not like the foul odor of feces from your trousers!

When I watched the video on another YouTube channel earlier today, I didn't realize what the situation was at first.  I was screaming at the cops for being idiots for hurriedly pulling this guy out of the plane which wasn't on fire when he clearly had a head injury, which means you can't rule out a c-spine injury.  My EMT training is still firmly deeply I my brain.  Then I heard the train horn and shortly after the impact, and I thought, "Oh, never mind, they just narrowly saved his life."

I'm going to guess that train-plane collisions are more rare than hen's teeth. 

Your EMT training is severely dated. The old everybody gets a collar and a board went out years ago. Thank goodness.

[Ed Lada 5,090]

Just now, bmiller said:

Your EMT training is severely dated. The old everybody gets a collar and a board went out years ago. Thank goodness.

No, I learned not everybody does, and I agree wholeheartedly that you don't immobilize somebody because you found them unconscious, no apparent injury, and nobody witnessed it happen.  But if I see somebody in a wrecked plane and a profusely bleeding head, I'm gonna stabilize their C-spine, I don't think that's unreasonable at all.

When I worked in a trauma center, we had a hell of a collection of backboards that would never get picked up.  Especially from the city EMS.  We would just throw them in a storage room, bloodstains and all.  

[βhyde 1,827]

22 minutes ago, Ed Lada said:

No, but they might not like the foul odor of feces from your trousers!

When I watched the video on another YouTube channel earlier today, I didn't realize what the situation was at first.  I was screaming at the cops for being idiots for hurriedly pulling this guy out of the plane which wasn't on fire when he clearly had a head injury, which means you can't rule out a c-spine injury.  My EMT training is still firmly deeply I my brain.  Then I heard the train horn and shortly after the impact, and I thought, "Oh, never mind, they just narrowly saved his life."

I'm going to guess that train-plane collisions are more rare than hen's teeth. 

Yeah, that was wild. I was figuring they get the guy out and maybe a few minutes later a train bumps into the plane. Everyone gets a good laugh because, seriously, who likes old C-172s. But shit, that train was hauling ass, and had the cops not been there, that was going to end badly. I'm almost 70% sure this pilot did not stage this accident to get likes on youtube, but I'll wait for the NTSB report.

I took a look at the googly map where the accident occurs. The cop station is about 100 yard away, so they were there in minutes if not seconds. And bonus, it's Jan 9th, National Law Enforcement Appreciation Day. If I'm the pilot, once I've sobered up and changed my underwear, I might swing by the station and start handing out c-notes and free donuts.

On the other hand, it's kind of a confusing day if you are an NTSB investigator. "Ok, what do we have here? A plane crash? A train collision? Both? Wait what?!" The only thing that would have made it even more unlikely would have been if a car hits the plane, then the train hits both the plane and the car with everyone walking away.

 

[Rain Man 1,963]

3 minutes ago, βhyde said:

Yeah, that was wild. I was figuring they get the guy out and maybe a few minutes later a train bumps into the plane. Everyone gets a good laugh because, seriously, who likes old C-172s. But shit, that train was hauling ass, and had the cops not been there, that was going to end badly. I'm almost 70% sure this pilot did not stage this accident to get likes on youtube, but I'll wait for the NTSB report.

I took a look at the googly map where the accident occurs. The cop station is about 100 yard away, so they were there in minutes if not seconds. And bonus, it's Jan 9th, National Law Enforcement Appreciation Day. If I'm the pilot, once I've sobered up and changed my underwear, I might swing by the station and start handing out c-notes and free donuts.

On the other hand, it's kind of a confusing day if you are an NTSB investigator. "Ok, what do we have here? A plane crash? A train collision? Both? Wait what?!" The only thing that would have made it even more unlikely would have been if a car hit the plane, then the train hit both the plane and the car with everyone walking away.

 

In the second part of the video, the part that isn't the cop's body cam, there is already yellow police tape up.   Either someone did that really quickly, or they had a minute or two to secure the scene.  

They probably had decided to leave the pilot until EMS showed up, then heard the train coming and realized they had to extricate him pronto.  Damn good job by those officers.

[Ed Lada 5,090]

8 minutes ago, βhyde said:

but I'll wait for the NTSB report.

Well that's going to take at least a year and a half.  And they have the advantage that the pilot might be able to tell them what happened to cause the emergency landing.  Otherwise it would take even longer given the condition of the plane after the train hit it.  There were some chunks just flying, somebody almost got hit by one.  That plane probably looked like the aftermath of a high speed jet aircraft impacting the ground.

[βhyde 1,827]

5 minutes ago, Rain Man said:

In the second part of the video, the part that isn't the cop's body cam, there is already yellow police tape up.   Either someone did that really quickly, or they had a minute or two to secure the scene.  

They probably had decided to leave the pilot until EMS showed up, then heard the train coming and realized they had to extricate him pronto.  Damn good job by those officers.

Yeah, looking at the other videos, I see you are right. They were probably there for a while. But still, good on the cops for acting quickly once it became obvious something really bad was going to happen.

BTW: Here's the airport and accident site. Not sure what the circumstances of the accident were, but an engine out just after takeoff looks like the choice between fucked and really fucked. Solid city. Good on the pilot for taking the train tracks instead of a road.

 

[billy backstay 1,674]

2 hours ago, kent_island_sailor said:

THOSE I burn for fun (apologies to Scarface)

Sorry, but I have a lot of good memories from IOR boats with reverse sheer transoms, one in particular.....

[mathystuff 451]

1 hour ago, Ed Lada said:

That's an interesting abstract, I'll hve ti see if I can acsess the entire paper.

If you PM me an email, that could be aranged.

[billy backstay 1,674]

13 minutes ago, mathystuff said:

If you PM me an email, that could be aranged.

 

I think the paper is linked in your post, no???

[Left Shift 3,611]

3 hours ago, kent_island_sailor said:

Pilots have the same affection for airplanes as sailors have for boats. The dead aircraft is not the worst issue here, this idiot stunt could have easily killed one or more people and it will give the FAA something to do that may very well impact a lot more people than the idiot in the video. That said, how would you feel if I started burning up 12 Meter boats for laughs and hits on my channel?

Any of the english ones, no problem.  Ones that Brit Chance designed?  Please.  And as noted above - reverse shear.

[Charlie Foxtrot 596]

Trent Palmer, an accomplished back country pilot with a similar plane, and a youtuber of some note, dissects Jacob's video.  "Red Flags Everywhere."
 

 

[Lark 1,920]

Who gets to clean up the mess?   (Assuming this wasn’t an insurance scam as well).    Are there rules like when you lose your car at the ramp?   

[kent_island_sailor 5,280]

8 hours ago, Lark said:

Who gets to clean up the mess?   (Assuming this wasn’t an insurance scam as well).    Are there rules like when you lose your car at the ramp?   

That is between the airplane owner and the property owner. Part of the fun will be this idiot never registered the plane, so the owner of record is the last owner, but I think he provided some video proof it is his now

[Ed Lada 5,090]

9 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

That is between the airplane owner and the property owner. Part of the fun will be this idiot never registered the plane, so the owner of record is the last owner, but I think he provided some video proof it is his now

At a minimum, I hope he loses his private pilot license.  Seems like a no brainer to me.

[Lark 1,920]

Also all financial costs, without ability to evade with bankruptcy.    That would probably require a court judgement.   If YouTube actually pays enough to cover these costs, hats off to him.   

[Ed Lada 5,090]

9 minutes ago, Lark said:

Also all financial costs, without ability to evade with bankruptcy.    That would probably require a court judgement.   If YouTube actually pays enough to cover these costs, hats off to him.   

Social Blade estimates his yearly income from YouTube ad revenue between $3,200 to $51,000.  So let's say he gets $25 K a year from YT.  His view did go up by about 10 million views in the last year.  I don't know that product endorsements and sponsorships get him much more income, but who knows.  He has his thumb in a lot of pies. 

[billy backstay 1,674]

9 hours ago, Lark said:

Who gets to clean up the mess?   (Assuming this wasn’t an insurance scam as well).    Are there rules like when you lose your car at the ramp?   

 

"That's a great question!"  And I hate it when people on the radio or TV say that, but seriously, is he not responsible for removing the wrecked airplane, that he intentionally crashed into the mountain terrain??

[Ed Lada 5,090]

14 hours ago, mathystuff said:

If you PM me an email, that could be aranged.

I created an account there, I wasn't sure what the requirements were, but it was very easy.

But thanks for the offer.

 

[kent_island_sailor 5,280]

2 hours ago, billy backstay said:

 

"That's a great question!"  And I hate it when people on the radio or TV say that, but seriously, is he not responsible for removing the wrecked airplane, that he intentionally crashed into the mountain terrain??

It depends on if someone makes him or not. I want to know if he is trying to claim this on insurance  - that could earn him jail time. In a real crash into what is probably state or federal land, they might have mercy on making a guy spend $10,000 on getting a wreck out. This guy - well I am guessing not.

[mikewof 1,238]

23 hours ago, Ed Lada said:

I agree that was a real stupid thing to do.  

I don't agree with the numerous comments about destroying a perfectly good plane, other than the fire hazard.  If it was his plane, he can do anything he wants to it.  People are allowed to destroy their own things.  To me that piece of this shit show isn't relevant at all and it's just a silly thing to bitch about.  People destroy perfectly good things all of the time, for all kinds of reasons.  

I think there are better things to be outraged about such as ranting about people ranting about somebody destroying a perfectly good plane.  

Yeah, his property to destroy, but Foxtrot's video is the point, if this mess intrudes on the freedoms of U.S. civilian aviation, then it wasn't just some idiot smashing up a Lambo with a sledgehammer.

I don't know the area in that vid. But in the high country, once things end up far enough from roadways, they tend to never leave. I found the debris of an old mobile home maybe three miles from the road up in Yampa, looked like it had been there since before I was born and would be there long after I'm gone.

[Ed Lada 5,090]

46 minutes ago, mikewof said:

Yeah, his property to destroy, but Foxtrot's video is the point, if this mess intrudes on the freedoms of U.S. civilian aviation, then it wasn't just some idiot smashing up a Lambo with a sledgehammer.

Quite honestly I don't believe that for a minute.  

What kind of new regulations are they going to make to prevent such occurrences?  No go pros on a plane?  No wearing parachutes while piloting a plane?  Jacob already violated several regulations and laws doing what he did if he did it intentionally, which I do believe to be true.  I just don't see any further restrictions coming out of this mess.

I am not a pilot but I do like all forms of aviation and I follow a lot of good aviation channels.  Blancolirio, Dan Gryder, Mentour Pilot, C. W. LeMoine, 74 Gear, and Ward Carroll to name a few.  They cover the spectrum from GA, Commercial and military flying.

[kent_island_sailor 5,280]

1 hour ago, Ed Lada said:

Quite honestly I don't believe that for a minute.  

What kind of new regulations are they going to make to prevent such occurrences?  No go pros on a plane?  No wearing parachutes while piloting a plane?  Jacob already violated several regulations and laws doing what he did if he did it intentionally, which I do believe to be true.  I just don't see any further restrictions coming out of this mess.

I am not a pilot but I do like all forms of aviation and I follow a lot of good aviation channels.  Blancolirio, Dan Gryder, Mentour Pilot, C. W. LeMoine, 74 Gear, and Ward Carroll to name a few.  They cover the spectrum from GA, Commercial and military flying.

If you *were* a pilot, you would know the FAA is prone to all kinds of bullshit if prodded. They just recently made it illegal to instruct in airplanes like P-51 that fly under Limited Category or Experimental Category. This was intended to go after operations doing thrill rides as lessons but ended up making it impossible for a number of aircraft owners to get lessons in their own airplanes. They very well MIGHT do all of what you suggest

[Ed Lada 5,090]

5 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

If you *were* a pilot, you would know the FAA is prone to all kinds of bullshit if prodded. They just recently made it illegal to instruct in airplanes like P-51 that fly under Limited Category or Experimental Category. This was intended to go after operations doing thrill rides as lessons but ended up making it impossible for a number of aircraft owners to get lessons in their own airplanes. They very well MIGHT do all of what you suggest

Even though I'm not a pilot, I've heard some horror stories about the organization formerly known as the Confederate Air Force.  

In my opinion, most regulations star tout with some very good reason, and sometimes they can become unintentionally onerous as in the case you mentioned.  

But it also seems to me a particular sub set of aviators will find ways to circumvent almost any regulations in their pursuit of cheap and often dangerous thrills.  Particularly with 'experimental' aircraft, and vintage military planes. 

Just my opinion as a non pilot, of course.  

[Mark K 2,321]

2 hours ago, Ed Lada said:

Quite honestly I don't believe that for a minute.  

What kind of new regulations are they going to make to prevent such occurrences?  No go pros on a plane?  No wearing parachutes while piloting a plane?  Jacob already violated several regulations and laws doing what he did if he did it intentionally, which I do believe to be true.  I just don't see any further restrictions coming out of this mess.

I am not a pilot but I do like all forms of aviation and I follow a lot of good aviation channels.  Blancolirio, Dan Gryder, Mentour Pilot, C. W. LeMoine, 74 Gear, and Ward Carroll to name a few.  They cover the spectrum from GA, Commercial and military flying.

Just adding to what has already been said, it's a fair bet he insured that plane and filed a claim the next day, he's probably on the hook for insurance fraud as well.   

 Where he's going he best not stage a soap-bar crash in the shower.  

[Ed Lada 5,090]

3 minutes ago, Mark K said:

Just adding to what has already been said, it's a fair bet he insured that plane and filed a claim the next day, he's probably on the hook for insurance fraud as well.   

I don't know if he's that stupid, but it's possible.  That could be the only thing he could get busted for if indeed he did such a thing. 

The 'accident' investigation might reveal something that would be proof of staging the crash.  If not, it will be hard to prove the 'accident' was intentional without some kind of smoking gun.  While the video raises red flags, I doubt it would prove anything he could be prosecuted for.  Wearing a sport parachute instead of a normal chute, and having multiple go pro cameras nowadays are hardly criminal acts.

Time will tell.

[billy backstay 1,674]

14 minutes ago, Mark K said:

Just adding to what has already been said, it's a fair bet he insured that plane and filed a claim the next day, he's probably on the hook for insurance fraud as well.   

 Where he's going he best not stage a soap-bar crash in the shower.  

 

One of the videos above showed that he registered the plane a week or so after he crashed it, so the insurance claim may be questionable.....

[billy backstay 1,674]

2 minutes ago, Ed Lada said:

I don't know if he's that stupid, but it's possible.  That could be the only thing he could get busted for if indeed he did such a thing. 

The 'accident' investigation might reveal something that would be proof of staging the crash.  If not, it will be hard to prove the 'accident' was intentional without some kind of smoking gun.  While the video raises red flags, I doubt it would prove anything he could be prosecuted for.  Wearing a sport parachute instead of a normal chute, and having multiple go pro cameras nowadays are hardly criminal acts.

Time will tell.

 

I doubt it will be that simple, Ed.  The FAA can be real pricks when shit like this goes down......

[Ed Lada 5,090]

Just now, billy backstay said:

 

One of the videos above showed that he registered the plane a week or so after he crashed it, so the insurance claim may be questionable.....

At this point the insurance claim is pure speculation.

[Ed Lada 5,090]

27 minutes ago, billy backstay said:

 

I doubt it will be that simple, Ed.  The FAA can be real pricks when shit like this goes down......

They might be, but they still have to show solid proof for any kind of civil or criminal charges.  Even if they find an empty fuel tank, that still doesn't prove the crash was intentional.  A bunch of aviation experts and non experts picking apart his video is hardly going to stand up in court.  He could reasonably refute any of the things in the video.  "I was stupid, I thought I had more fuel."  "My dog almost killed me a few months ago in my plane, and it scared the shit out of me so I just used my sport chute because I already had it."  "I opened the door on the plane because I was feeling a little stuffy and claustrophobic."  "Yeah, sure there were places I could have landed, I see that now, but Jesus, while I was up there I just freaked out."

And on and on.  You just can't prosecute somebody for that shit.  In one video above the guy said something about basically being charged for causing an avoidable accident for being incompetent, but other than revoking his pilots license, I don't see that going very far either.  Especially since he was alone in the plane, and the forest didn't catch fire.

Folks including me can speculate all we want, we'll just have to wait, and it will probably be a while.  The NTSB investigations are always slow to issue a final report and I doubt this one will be a high priority for them given at least a couple recent GA fatal aircraft crashes, not to mention all of the other ones already in the pipeline.  

[billy backstay 1,674]

IMHO it's obvious it was planned in advance, and carried out, based upon the videos above by experienced pilots, including a CFI.....

[Ventucky Red 1,102]

22 minutes ago, billy backstay said:

 

I doubt it will be that simple, Ed.  The FAA can be real pricks when shit like this goes down......

The FAA is not going to act until they get the NTSB findings... and that could take a year.

[billy backstay 1,674]

Just now, Ventucky Red said:

The FAA is not going to act until they get the NTSB findings... and that could take a year.

Yes, but there will be something come of it in the end, IMHO....

[Mark K 2,321]

20 minutes ago, Ed Lada said:

I don't know if he's that stupid, but it's possible.  That could be the only thing he could get busted for if indeed he did such a thing. 

The 'accident' investigation might reveal something that would be proof of staging the crash.  If not, it will be hard to prove the 'accident' was intentional without some kind of smoking gun.  While the video raises red flags, I doubt it would prove anything he could be prosecuted for.  Wearing a sport parachute instead of a normal chute, and having multiple go pro cameras nowadays are hardly criminal acts.

Time will tell.

 I would probably say the same except I've flown light planes. Where he lost power he was more than high enough to glide well clear of those hills.  He will find no pilots of light planes who will say it made any sense, and the prosecution will find all they want who will say the opposite. I wouldn't go so far as to say he will definitely lose in a trail, anything can happen in those things, but he would be well-advised to cop a plea. He takes this to trial they will go for max penalties, what could've been a few years in the can could easily become 20 or more.

  

[Ed Lada 5,090]

4 minutes ago, Ventucky Red said:

The FAA is not going to act until they get the NTSB findings... and that could take a year.

I meant to type NTSB instead of FAA in my post above.  

I blame it on being tired, and I fixed it.

And from what I've seen on YouTube, 18 months is more likely.

[billy backstay 1,674]

One of the first things I was taught in flight training was how to keep enough altitude to deal with an engine out, and what to do if it happened. 

I had 63 or so hours in a Cessna 152, when Guillaume-Barre sidelined my life for 6 months or more, and I never completed the training, to get my ticket.  It was no longer a priority after I got sick......

[Ventucky Red 1,102]

1 minute ago, billy backstay said:

Yes, but there will be something come of it in the end, IMHO....

There is always an outcome with an NTSB investigation.   The worst the FAA can do is a suspension or a revocation of the pilot's certificate.  They may have some civil enforcement, but the FAA is not a policing agency.

[Ventucky Red 1,102]

1 minute ago, billy backstay said:

One of the first things I was taught in flight training was how to keep enough altitude to deal with an engine out, and what to do if it happened. 

I had 63 or so hours in a Cessna 152, when Guillaume-Barre sidelined my life for 6 months or more, and I never completed the training, to get my ticket.  It was no longer a priority after I got sick......

63 hours and no check ride?

[billy backstay 1,674]

1 hour ago, Ventucky Red said:

63 hours and no check ride?

 

I only had yet to do my 2 stop solo, and get proficient for the check ride, for the license.  GBS laid me out for at least 6 months, and going back to work, to run my real estate business, on crutches, managing a staff of a dozen or so people, made my pilot's license not so important anymore.   

[mikewof 1,238]

5 hours ago, Ed Lada said:

Quite honestly I don't believe that for a minute.  

What kind of new regulations are they going to make to prevent such occurrences?  No go pros on a plane?  No wearing parachutes while piloting a plane?  Jacob already violated several regulations and laws doing what he did if he did it intentionally, which I do believe to be true.  I just don't see any further restrictions coming out of this mess.

I am not a pilot but I do like all forms of aviation and I follow a lot of good aviation channels.  Blancolirio, Dan Gryder, Mentour Pilot, C. W. LeMoine, 74 Gear, and Ward Carroll to name a few.  They cover the spectrum from GA, Commercial and military flying.

Brick in the wall ... 

I am amazed that civilian aviation in the USA is still so open while the rest of the planet has locked it down or never allowed it in the first place. Scofflaws like these put a problem on the radar. Hopefully it won't hurt, but it can't possibly help. If private aviation in the USA was mostly conducted by a bunch of half-broke rednecks and idiots like this YouTuber, instead of a physicians, attorneys and venture capitalists, it likely would have been restricted a while ago.

I used to fly in high school. I got to take half of my ground school hours as one of my classes at the public high school ... flying was seen as a viable career path for us half-drunk punks. But I couldn't afford to fly out the FAA inspector to give me clearance on the VASI lights due to my color-blindness to get my solo. The 152 squad was a lot of fun while it lasted, and actually (barely) affordable to me back then, if memory serves, $35/hour wet.

Aside from all this, I have always been proud of how open and accessible it is to fly in the USA. I bragged about it to some Germans in front of a bar in Glasgow when they suggested that our country was a shite-hole. The reality here is that a minimum-wage employee, if sufficiently driven (and with sufficiently low expenses) can get their license and fly. Can that happen anywhere else? Canada?

[kent_island_sailor 5,280]

2 hours ago, Ed Lada said:

They might be, but they still have to show solid proof for any kind of civil or criminal charges.  Even if they find an empty fuel tank, that still doesn't prove the crash was intentional.  A bunch of aviation experts and non experts picking apart his video is hardly going to stand up in court.  He could reasonably refute any of the things in the video.  "I was stupid, I thought I had more fuel."  "My dog almost killed me a few months ago in my plane, and it scared the shit out of me so I just used my sport chute because I already had it."  "I opened the door on the plane because I was feeling a little stuffy and claustrophobic."  "Yeah, sure there were places I could have landed, I see that now, but Jesus, while I was up there I just freaked out."

And on and on.  You just can't prosecute somebody for that shit.  In one video above the guy said something about basically being charged for causing an avoidable accident for being incompetent, but other than revoking his pilots license, I don't see that going very far either.  Especially since he was alone in the plane, and the forest didn't catch fire.

Folks including me can speculate all we want, we'll just have to wait, and it will probably be a while.  The NTSB investigations are always slow to issue a final report and I doubt this one will be a high priority for them given at least a couple recent GA fatal aircraft crashes, not to mention all of the other ones already in the pipeline.  

CLEARLY you have never been on the receiving end of an FAA action. It is very much like arguing with your wife, facts and logic are not involved. If I get time I have some interesting stories.

[kent_island_sailor 5,280]

2 hours ago, Ventucky Red said:

The FAA is not going to act until they get the NTSB findings... and that could take a year.

Not true, the two are not necessarily connected.

[kent_island_sailor 5,280]

2 hours ago, Ventucky Red said:

There is always an outcome with an NTSB investigation.   The worst the FAA can do is a suspension or a revocation of the pilot's certificate.  They may have some civil enforcement, but the FAA is not a policing agency.

You are quite confused about who does what.

[kent_island_sailor 5,280]

2 hours ago, Ventucky Red said:

63 hours and no check ride?

Most of my students did their private ride around 80 hours. If you have a full time job and only fly on weekends and then only some of them, it takes a long time. I got through in 39 hours and got hour 40 on my checkride. I flew M-W-F-S to do so.

[βhyde 1,827]

On the subject of whether or not the plane had fuel. Here's some crazy 1930's tech. One of the videos I saw had an experienced Taylorcraft pilot, and A&P of that actual plane, show the plane was loaded because there is a sight tube right in front of the cockpit windscreen. It uses a small float (a cork) in the tube to indicate fuel level. The camera shots from the left wing shows the float at a position that indicates full or near full fuel. This particular plane actually has three tanks, one in each wing and one on the engine bulkhead. So at least the bulkhead tank had fuel. But we already know that. I'm very surprised the crash didn't start a fire. 

And the BC-12 has quite impressive fuel milage at about 4.0gph @ 95mph, which is about 24mpg. This is due to the low wing loading and slippery (for its day) wing profile. Not bad for an 80 year-old plane. Jacob is a dickhead.

[billy backstay 1,674]

43 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

Most of my students did their private ride around 80 hours. If you have a full time job and only fly on weekends and then only some of them, it takes a long time. I got through in 39 hours and got hour 40 on my checkride. I flew M-W-F-S to do so.

 

That makes sense.  Running my business and family responsibilities did not afford me the option of flying 4 times a week.  And after I could walk again after GBS, and go back to work, managing a dozen people, and rental properties management, finishing my license had to be put on the back burner, and I got too busy with work, to finish and get the license.

No big deal, I couldn't afford the hundred-dollar hamburgers, flying to Block Island, at this point in my life, anyway.  It was a great experience, but fate got in the way!!

[Ventucky Red 1,102]

39 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

You are quite confused about who does what.

Okay, explain to me how I am confused. 

Are you saying that the FAA does the actual crash investigation?

 

 

 

[βhyde 1,827]

And regarding the NTSB's ability to investigate the crash site.

A few days after the crash, sources at the airport say Jacob returned with cuts and bruises and told the story of what had allegedly occurred. Employees informed Jacob that the incident would need to be reported to the FAA, but soon after, Jacob and a friend allegedly chartered a helicopter to remove the wreckage from the forest and transport it to an unknown location.

https://www.independent.com/2022/01/04/did-youtuber-trevor-jacob-crash-his-plane-in-the-los-padres-on-purpose/

Not sure if this true, but I imagine the NTSB/FAA really frowns on tampering with a crash site.

 

[Wet Spreaders 306]

2 hours ago, kent_island_sailor said:

Most of my students did their private ride around 80 hours. If you have a full time job and only fly on weekends and then only some of them, it takes a long time. I got through in 39 hours and got hour 40 on my checkride. I flew M-W-F-S to do so.

I did my power license in 1999, then stopped flying to go sailing for 20 years. I did a glider course in 2020 just for fun and did a bunch of FAA practice tests to make sure that I could answer any questions from the checkride examiner. Wow - I don't know if it's me, or if something changed in aviation, but I feel like the material now and the rigor of the checkride is a lot tougher than it was back in 1999. I remember sailing through the test and the checkride back then without even really thinking about it or worrying. I was very stressed this time around.

[billy backstay 1,674]

2 hours ago, Wet Spreaders said:

I did my power license in 1999, then stopped flying to go sailing for 20 years. I did a glider course in 2020 just for fun and did a bunch of FAA practice tests to make sure that I could answer any questions from the checkride examiner. Wow - I don't know if it's me, or if something changed in aviation, but I feel like the material now and the rigor of the checkride is a lot tougher than it was back in 1999. I remember sailing through the test and the checkride back then without even really thinking about it or worrying. I was very stressed this time around.

 

Sounds like my 100 Ton Captains license!  It was renewed in 1996, but I never received a renewal form, 5 years later, as I had in the past?  I was busy running my businesses, and raising our two girls, while Missus BB was traveling a lot for her work.  It must have got lost in the mail, but DAMN! I would have renewed it in a New York minute had I received the form!!  To get it back now is extremely onerous!  TSA card, random drug testing, etc.   Not worth it, at this point in my retired life, looking for a part-time job in the Spring, messing about with boats...  I don't need a current license to drive a yacht club launch, in the spring and fall, when the College kids are away in school, and I hear the tips can be quite good!! 

[Grande Mastere Dreade 4,126]

11 hours ago, mikewof said:

I don't know the area in that vid. But in the high country, once things end up far enough from roadways, they tend to never leave. I found the debris of an old mobile home maybe three miles from the road up in Yampa, looked like it had been there since before I was born and would be there long after I'm gone.

yup,  mt everest is literally littered with the bodies of motivated people..   probably cause more damage to get it out then to leave it there..

[Rain Man 1,963]

5 hours ago, βhyde said:

And regarding the NTSB's ability to investigate the crash site.

A few days after the crash, sources at the airport say Jacob returned with cuts and bruises and told the story of what had allegedly occurred. Employees informed Jacob that the incident would need to be reported to the FAA, but soon after, Jacob and a friend allegedly chartered a helicopter to remove the wreckage from the forest and transport it to an unknown location.

https://www.independent.com/2022/01/04/did-youtuber-trevor-jacob-crash-his-plane-in-the-los-padres-on-purpose/

Not sure if this true, but I imagine the NTSB/FAA really frowns on tampering with a crash site.

 

NTSB only investigates fatal GA accidents.  Not sure about injury accidents, but in any case, there was no injury except for some trees and bugs, and that nice-looking Taylorcraft.  According to the following the FAA investigates non-fatal FA accidents.

https://www.avweb.com/aviation-news/ntsb-accident-investigations-what-you-need-to-know/

With the publicity around this accident, the FAA will likely be interested in talking to the pilot.  I'm not sure if the FAA can ask the NTSB to look at the aircraft for them to prove the pilot deliberately crashed it.  NTSB has special investigation powers.

[Ed Lada 5,090]

It certainly will be interesting to see how this will all shake out.

[Ed Lada 5,090]

10 hours ago, kent_island_sailor said:

CLEARLY you have never been on the receiving end of an FAA action. It is very much like arguing with your wife, facts and logic are not involved. If I get time I have some interesting stories.

I would love to see my wife go head to head with the FAA in an epic battle.  I'd put my money on my wife, she would try the patience of a saint, let alone a mere illogical, fact resistant bureaucrat.  She can out illogic anyone!  

[βhyde 1,827]