Jump to content

For foredeckers who think they are bad-asses..


Recommended Posts

Encountered this tube by old Captain Irving, filmed when he was crew on one of the last square riggers. 

Those guys were tough. Even the ship's dog was tough. Holy shit... 

 

 

  • Like 7
Link to post
Share on other sites

Not a Man Bun in sight......!

Seen this before, but doesn't get old.

Good reminder to certain sectors how soft society has become in many respects. Has the Baby been thrown out with the Bathwater in terms of progress?

Asking for a friend......

Link to post
Share on other sites

There's no need for that sort of toughness anymore.

I also doubt that any of us would really want most of those guys on our boats - they were not what one could call civilized for the most part.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, but could they pull off a dip pole gybe peel with wire braces while still flying a blooper? Those old dudes don't know the true meaning of fear...

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, SPORTSCAR said:

Yeah, but could they pull off a dip pole gybe peel with wire braces while still flying a blooper?

In their sleep! 

23-metre-racing-cutters-white-heather-ii-brynhild-ii-credit-beken-of-cowes

I still wonder how they gybed these monsters in any kind of breeze and kept the rig up, no winches, jammers, synthetic lines etc.  And an uplanned gybe doesn't bear thinking about....

Or did they avoid gybing at all costs?

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

There's no need for that sort of toughness anymore.

I also doubt that any of us would really want most of those guys on our boats - they were not what one could call civilized for the most part.

Time for a story.  When I was a kid I'd hang out at the yacht club all the time I could.  There was an old bloke, name of Des Cooper, who lived quietly on board a timber yacht in the moorings.  He didn't say much to anyone, and kept to himself.  He was terribly scarred, and missing most of his fingers.

One day I got to talking with him - maybe because I was only early teens and full of enthusiasm, he humoured me.  It turned out that he didn't own the boat on which he lived, but the owner just made it available for Des.  Over a while he told me some of his stories.  He was pretty old, but I don't know how old.  He told me he was a sailor on the old square riggers.  On 2 different occasions, down near the Horn, they had a fire on board.  With the ships being timber, if the hull caught, the entire crew would die - simple as that.  So the crew would have to go below and fight the fire, with death a very strong possibility.  Or face certain death.  On both occasions, Des was badly burned (thus the terrible scarring).

On another trip, the ship was caught in a full storm in deep southern latitudes.  While aloft and reefing, Des's hands became frozen to the yards.  His mates had to cut his fingers off one at a time until they could free him.

Not long after hearing these stories, Des disappeared.  I asked a few adults, but most had never noticed him.  I assumed he had died.  I really thought he had earned his rest.

I was a gun bowman in the days of wire sheets and bloopers, but I was never asked to do the things asked of old Des.

 

  • Like 14
Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Recidivist said:

Time for a story.  When I was a kid I'd hang out at the yacht club all the time I could.  There was an old bloke, name of Des Cooper, who lived quietly on board a timber yacht in the moorings.  He didn't say much to anyone, and kept to himself.  He was terribly scarred, and missing most of his fingers.

One day I got to talking with him - maybe because I was only early teens and full of enthusiasm, he humoured me.  It turned out that he didn't own the boat on which he lived, but the owner just made it available for Des.  Over a while he told me some of his stories.  He was pretty old, but I don't know how old.  He told me he was a sailor on the old square riggers.  On 2 different occasions, down near the Horn, they had a fire on board.  With the ships being timber, if the hull caught, the entire crew would die - simple as that.  So the crew would have to go below and fight the fire, with death a very strong possibility.  Or face certain death.  On both occasions, Des was badly burned (thus the terrible scarring).

On another trip, the ship was caught in a full storm in deep southern latitudes.  While aloft and reefing, Des's hands became frozen to the yards.  His mates had to cut his fingers off one at a time until they could free him.

Not long after hearing these stories, Des disappeared.  I asked a few adults, but most had never noticed him.  I assumed he had died.  I really thought he had earned his rest.

I was a gun bowman in the days of wire sheets and bloopers, but I was never asked to do the things asked of old Des.

 

Us old IOR bowmen ain't got shit on those old square rigger guys...

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

I remember seeing this at least 15 years ago, maybe on a discovery type TV channel. I always wondered where it went.

Anytime the wind pipes up it can be trouble. Nature is unforgiving. Having dismasted in the SB Channel once, I thought we were going to get swamped. 25 knts with 6, 8 to 10' breaking swells. It got scary until we got the rig on board and the outboard running. The wind and waves were pushing so fast I could steer. Then some big waves overtaking us broke on the the open transom and the cockpit was filled with water. We put the hatch board in quickly. It got scary and we got in just before sunset.

526377965_dismasted2013.thumb.jpg.fad620cd6bc2371eb3adbc8e025ddb0b.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

Irving, could bend quarters with his fingers. He tried to show me but I couldn't get the hang of it [too much pain].  He used it prememptively in bars so that no one would fight him.  Cool guy.

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, guerdon said:

Irving, could bend quarters with his fingers. He tried to show me but I couldn't get the hang of it [too much pain].  He used it prememptively in bars so that no one would fight him.  Cool guy.

 

 

 

There's another story about him telling his tales while casually cracking open walnuts as easily as normal people crack open peanuts. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Meat Wad said:

I remember seeing this at least 15 years ago, maybe on a discovery type TV channel. I always wondered where it went.

Anytime the wind pipes up it can be trouble. Nature is unforgiving. Having dismasted in the SB Channel once, I thought we were going to get swamped. 25 knts with 6, 8 to 10' breaking swells. It got scary until we got the rig on board and the outboard running. The wind and waves were pushing so fast I could steer. Then some big waves overtaking us broke on the the open transom and the cockpit was filled with water. We put the hatch board in quickly. It got scary and we got in just before sunset.

526377965_dismasted2013.thumb.jpg.fad620cd6bc2371eb3adbc8e025ddb0b.jpg

But did you still have your fingers?

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/13/2022 at 4:59 PM, Mark K said:

Encountered this tube by old Captain Irving, filmed when he was crew on one of the last square riggers. 

Those guys were tough. Even the ship's dog was tough. Holy shit... 

 

 

All those sailors were the grandfathers of all IOR bowmen!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Fantastic! Some kind of hypnotism.

The skipper had rounded the Horn 56 times.

Was interesting that there was no expectation to use that 3-ton anchor until arriving at their final destination. Currently reading older expedition books and it seems like a recurring theme, with some skippers (of much smaller boats) foregoing carrying any anchor at all, as there was no thought given to stopping. I admire that commitment to staying in motion, rather than being preoccupied with when the next break in the journey will come...

Link to post
Share on other sites

dcf0051c-0417-4566-80c0-177efcf320d9_w1280_r1.77_fpx37_fpy55.thumb.jpg.0ba3774a4b0db04234066abce7cbb059.jpg

I think the most interesting thing is that the Peking and her contemporary "P-Liners" could be operated economically because, in addition to being square riggers, they were run as training ships.

The Laeisz company, operator of the P-liners was originally a hat company (think of Columbian's love affair with formal hats, even until today) and they realized they could fill their ships with bird guano for use as fertilizer on the return trip from Valparaiso, Chile (the other end after rounding "50° South to 50° South" - Valparaiso is farther north up the coast at 33°S).  German-built machine tools then reinforced the west-bound hat-cargo, but always tons of bagged-and-stacked (and highly explosive) guano was the return prize.

Laiesz lost their fleet in World War I as war reparations but acquired them back when it was realized that nobody really wanted large steel sailing ships any more.  Laiesz then came upon a new business model that made the operation viable once more for a short period before the final curtain would fall.

The ships would now be training ships and student sailors would pay to be on board.  This meant a salary only for a captain and two professional sailors - First mate and sailmaker, plus a professional cook.  The boy's parents or maritime trade unions paid for the "school"; many boys took multiple trips so the experience level remained consistent.  The experienced boys would teach the newbies.

The availability of the last of these steel built sailing ships in good repair, there projected short working life in the guano trade and this free labor pool found a perfect but limited window of viable economic opportunity.  The invention of artificial fertilizer would make the guano trade uneconomical at the close of the 1930's.  This left grain from Australia the only cargo left for the model, but this was cut short by World War II.  Sail training ships of the future would be training ships only; not working ships carrying merchant cargo.

Irving Johnson had already been in the merchant marine for two years (the movie makes him sound like he had just come off the farm but in fact he was an experienced seaman).  He realized that that last years of the great square rigger was near and took a year off from the merchant marine to go (as one of the oldest boys) on this documented trip.  He brought a Kodak 16mm Special and a case of film and made this amazing move that has delighted sailors for nearly 90 years.

His timing was perfect; had he waited two years, the trip and film would not be possible.

From other recent threads: Status of Peking today as a fully restored museum ship in Hamburg (picture above)

https://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?/topic/232891-full-rigged-ship-sailing-around-the-horn-1928-movie/&tab=comments#comment-7789414

And more info about her and her P-liner sisters.

https://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?/topic/232814-htfu-1928-style/&tab=comments#comment-7785195

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/13/2022 at 5:07 PM, Boink said:

Not a Man Bun in sight......!

Man buns came in with the advent of Asymmetricals.

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Snaggletooth said:

I thouht it maiide fashionabelle by the hipsteres 

Snaggs, depends which era of hipsters you are referring to?

Certainly there were man buns in late 80's early 90's with the whole ecstasy and rave scene.....

YMMV :):):)

P.S. I would argue with anyone who claims a Man Bun is Or ever was fashionable......

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/13/2022 at 5:07 PM, Boink said:

Not a Man Bun in sight......!

Seen this before, but doesn't get old.

Good reminder to certain sectors how soft society has become in many respects. Has the Baby been thrown out with the Bathwater in terms of progress?

Asking for a friend......

To me the part that illustrates this the best is just a tiny snip, where he mentions on one shot that the "two guys on the right" of that shot didn't make it, got swept over somewhere off the Horn...but nobody wanted to talk about that.  

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/16/2022 at 12:03 PM, Mark K said:

To me the part that illustrates this the best is just a tiny snip, where he mentions on one shot that the "two guys on the right" of that shot didn't make it, got swept over somewhere off the Horn...but nobody wanted to talk about that.  

 

No different than the Navy today.  Lose a jet and the aircrew during cruise, and the same thing happens.  By the next day or two, nobody talks about them...because its too close and personal...there but by the grace of god go I...

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Crash said:

No different than the Navy today.  Lose a jet and the aircrew during cruise, and the same thing happens.  By the next day or two, nobody talks about them...because its too close and personal...there but by the grace of god go I...

Actually, I would say it follows this pattern:

Step 1: Oh no!

Step 2: I wonder why they didn't.......... (select alternate courses of action)?

Step 3: I would have definitely..........(done something different).

Step 4: I would have made it.

Step 5: Never say anything about 2. through 4. out loud for fear of sounding critical of the dead.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Crash said:

No different than the Navy today.  Lose a jet and the aircrew during cruise, and the same thing happens.  By the next day or two, nobody talks about them...because its too close and personal...there but by the grace of god go I...

Yup. Everybody just gets a bit more careful, if possible. They don't discuss it much. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

https://blog.marinersmuseum.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/MaryPatten-768x693.jpg

Mary Ann Brown Patten
First female commander of an American merchant vessel, Cape Horner

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Ann_Brown_Patten

"Mary Ann Brown Patten or Patton (April 6, 1837 – March 18, 1861) was the first female commander of an American merchant vessel. She was the wife of Joshua Patten, captain of the merchant clipper ship Neptune’s Car. The ship was bound around Cape Horn from New York towards San Francisco when Joshua Patten collapsed from fatigue in 1856. His wife took command for 56 days, faced down a mutiny, and successfully managed to navigate the clipper ship into San Francisco. At the time of docking, she was 19 years old and eight months pregnant with her first child"

Neptune's_Car_Clipper_Ship,_Chinese_Scho

"Neptune’s Car was launched in 1853 and by 1855 the vessel had already developed a reputation for speed. It was 216 feet long and weighed 1,617 tons. According to the New York Herald, Patten was a last minute replacement for the ship’s previous captain, who had taken ill shortly before the vessel was set to travel the world. The Herald claims that Joshua and Mary Patten were aboard Neptune’s Car preparing to leave the dock only twelve hours after they first received the offer. For the next 17 months they sailed to San Francisco, China, London, and back to New York. Mary passed the time learning navigation and assisting Joshua with his duties as captain.

"The ship departed from New York for San Francisco on July 1, 1856 along with two other clipper ships, the Intrepid and Romance of the Seas. This made speed a greater priority than usual, as it was common practice to place bets on which vessel would arrive first. Neptune’s Car was at the foot of Cape Horn when Joshua Patten developed tuberculosis and lapsed into a coma. Under usual circumstances the first mate would take command. However earlier in the voyage Captain Patten had caught him sleeping on watch and losing valuable time by leaving sails reefed. The mate had likely placed bets on one of Neptune’s Car’s competitors, and so Captain Patten had confined him to his cabin. The second mate was illiterate and unable to navigate, which left Mary Patten the most qualified person on board to bring the ship safely into port.

"The former first mate wrote Patten a letter warning her of the challenges ahead and imploring her to reinstate him, but she replied that if her husband hadn’t trusted him as a mate she couldn't trust him as a captain. He then attempted to incite a mutiny by trying to convince the crew that they would be better off putting into the nearby port of Valparaiso rather than continuing on to San Francisco. Patten knew that putting into port in South America would mean a loss of crew and quite possibly cargo. She responded by making an appeal to the crew, and in the end won their unanimous support. Patten later claimed that she didn’t change her clothes for 50 days, instead dedicating her free time to studying medicine and caring for her husband, who had been struck blind by the time they passed Valparaiso. She is credited with keeping him alive during the voyage although he never fully recovered his health.

"When Neptune’s Car arrived at San Francisco Harbor Mary Patten rejected an offer to wait for a pilot to navigate the clipper ship into port, and instead took the helm herself. Despite all of Neptune’s Car’s tribulations, the clipper ship still arrived in San Francisco second, beating the Intrepid. The ship's insurers, recognizing that Mary Patten had saved them thousands of dollars, rewarded her with one thousand dollars in February 1857. In a letter responding to the gift, she said that she performed "only the plain duty of a wife."

"Joshua Patten survived the journey back to New York on the steamer George Law and safely returned to Boston with his wife. There on March 10th, less than a month after arriving in port, Mary gave birth to a son whom she named Joshua. Captain Patten died in July 1857. Mary Ann Brown Patten was given $1,399 from a fund for her relief set up by the Boston Courier.

"Mary Patten died of tuberculosis four years later on Sunday, March 31, 1861, shortly before her 24th birthday. "

 

Mary_Ann_Brown_Patten.jpg

National Sailing Hall of Fame - The Story of Mary Patten

https://nshof.org/the-story-of-mary-patten/

The Mariners’ Museum and Park - Patten Down the Hatches!

https://blog.marinersmuseum.org/2020/04/patten-down-the-hatches/

Podcast Episode 190: Mary Patten and the Neptune’s Car

https://www.futilitycloset.com/2018/02/26/podcast-episode-190-mary-patten-neptunes-car/

 

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...