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Republicans brought false electors to the capital and sent papers saying Trump won..


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9 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

Think about how many of those dupes are going to flip (if they haven’t already). That’s a gold mine. 

They won't flip, they'll just go silent.

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Just now, saxdog said:

They are the very special dream team

More like an unrelenting nightmare

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I guess I’m the only one who heard about this story over a year ago.  You have to wonder why it’s being recycled now?   If this was against the law and it should be, charge and prosecute, but the AG has had the details for over a year now. 
 

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43 minutes ago, The Joker said:

I guess I’m the only one who heard about this story over a year ago.  You have to wonder why it’s being recycled now?   If this was against the law and it should be, charge and prosecute, but the AG has had the details for over a year now. 
 

And the Georgia 3 should have been prosecuted for murder immediately but that took public outcry before it happened…

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They asked for it and now they got it.

BREAKING: Fulton DA requests special grand jury for Trump probe

Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis is requesting a special grand jury to aid in her investigation of former President Donald Trump and his efforts to overturn Georgia’s 2020 election results. 

In a Thursday letter to Christopher S. Brasher, chief judge of Fulton County’s Superior Court, Willis said the move was needed because a “significant number of witnesses and prospective witnesses have refused to cooperate with the investigation absent a subpoena requiring their testimony.” 

She cited comments Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger made during an October 2021 interview with NBC News’ Chuck Todd, in which he said “if she wants to interview me, there’s a process for that.”

Read more: https://www.ajc.com/news/atlanta-news/breaking-fulton-da-requests-special-grand-jury-for-trump-probe/E5HCDM2P75ETRAEUHBK2Q7L3FY/ 

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4 minutes ago, badlatitude said:

They asked for it and now they got it.

BREAKING: Fulton DA requests special grand jury for Trump probe

Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis is requesting a special grand jury to aid in her investigation of former President Donald Trump and his efforts to overturn Georgia’s 2020 election results. 

In a Thursday letter to Christopher S. Brasher, chief judge of Fulton County’s Superior Court, Willis said the move was needed because a “significant number of witnesses and prospective witnesses have refused to cooperate with the investigation absent a subpoena requiring their testimony.” 

She cited comments Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger made during an October 2021 interview with NBC News’ Chuck Todd, in which he said “if she wants to interview me, there’s a process for that.”

Read more: https://www.ajc.com/news/atlanta-news/breaking-fulton-da-requests-special-grand-jury-for-trump-probe/E5HCDM2P75ETRAEUHBK2Q7L3FY/ 

I guess I’m the only one who heard about this story over 7 hours ago.  You have to wonder why it’s being recycled now?   If this was against the law and it should be, charge and prosecute, but the AG has had the details for over 7 hours now. /s

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3 hours ago, The Joker said:

I guess I’m the only one who heard about this story over a year ago.  You have to wonder why it’s being recycled now?   If this was against the law and it should be, charge and prosecute, but the AG has had the details for over a year now. 
 

Only small components of it were heard about a year ago. A single fake elector document that, by itself, was sort of a joke of a thing. Now there's a number of states that did participated and it appears to all have been coordinated by the team in the White House. Add to that the plan to get Pence to disregard the legal electors, and it becomes a whole lot more sinister.

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3 hours ago, Nice! said:

Only small components of it were heard about a year ago. A single fake elector document that, by itself, was sort of a joke of a thing. Now there's a number of states that did participated and it appears to all have been coordinated by the team in the White House. Add to that the plan to get Pence to disregard the legal electors, and it becomes a whole lot more sinister.

Quoting Heather Cox Richardson "The committee said it knew that “in the days before January 6th, a member of the House Freedom Caucus with knowledge of the President’s planning for that day sent a message to the White House Chief of Staff with this explicit warning: ‘If POTUS [meaning President Trump] allows this to occur…we’re driving a stake in the heart of the federal republic….’”

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The Republicans are operating on the principal that nothing done on or by a Republican President is or should be illegal, since their man is above the law.    All actions taken on his behalf are similarly protected.   Therefore all actions taken to keep him as glorious leader, including ending the elected presidency and destroying the constitution they all swore to protest, are just politics as usual.   If they had succeeded he would have given them baronies and knighthoods in the new society, warlords that replaced the old republic.   If they failed no crime was committed, since the republic still stands,   They get to regroup and will try again,    

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10 hours ago, phillysailor said:

The hypocrisy & lies are so fucking clear. Conspiracy to defraud the Presidential election of the United States has GOT to be a crime, or nothing is.

Well, yeah. It's a problem to sort through all the testimony and get VERY specific on charges.

Even with a totally iron-clad case, 90% of Republicans are going to believe that no crime was committed. It will be difficult to prosecute and it's will be decried as a partisan witch-hunt (hell, it already is).

 

32 minutes ago, Lark said:

The Republicans are operating on the principal that nothing done on or by a Republican President is or should be illegal, since their man is above the law.    All actions taken on his behalf are similarly protected.   Therefore all actions taken to keep him as glorious leader, including ending the elected presidency and destroying the constitution they all swore to protest, are just politics as usual.   If they had succeeded he would have given them baronies and knighthoods in the new society, warlords that replaced the old republic.   If they failed no crime was committed, since the republic still stands,   They get to regroup and will try again,    

This, unfortunately.

In a way, it -is- just hardball politics. In reality, our system of laws and government is an artificial construct, and it's operated by people who have their own interests and beliefs. How do we convince people to act against their own self-interest, and counter their belief that (just for example) that Trump was CHOSEN BY GOD to rule over us? When these beliefs become common enough in gov't offices, and/or the military, there is simply no way to maintain the system.

- DSK

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6 hours ago, Nice! said:

Only small components of it were heard about a year ago. A single fake elector document that, by itself, was sort of a joke of a thing. Now there's a number of states that did participated and it appears to all have been coordinated by the team in the White House. Add to that the plan to get Pence to disregard the legal electors, and it becomes a whole lot more sinister.

It’s hard to find the story’s that appeared a year ago because the MSM is up in arms making this a new story, but as of March 2021 they knew about seven states.  Fake there were stories about MI,AZ and WI in 12/20

The fake electoral certificates were assembled by groups of Trump supporters in Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, New Mexico, Nevada, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin who sought to replace the valid presidential electors from their state — who had been chosen by voters in free and fair elections — with bogus slates of pro-Trump electors.

 

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7 hours ago, Nice! said:

Only small components of it were heard about a year ago. A single fake elector document that, by itself, was sort of a joke of a thing. Now there's a number of states that did participated and it appears to all have been coordinated by the team in the White House. Add to that the plan to get Pence to disregard the legal electors, and it becomes a whole lot more sinister.

Not to the Joker, but then he approves.

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1 hour ago, The Joker said:

It’s hard to find the story’s that appeared a year ago because the MSM is up in arms making this a new story, but as of March 2021 they knew about seven states.  Fake there were stories about MI,AZ and WI in 12/20

The fake electoral certificates were assembled by groups of Trump supporters in Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, New Mexico, Nevada, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin who sought to replace the valid presidential electors from their state — who had been chosen by voters in free and fair elections — with bogus slates of pro-Trump electors.

 

Typical Liberal Main Stream Meeeeeedia.  Reporting a true story too many times.  

Why can't they to the right thing and allow us all to forget this never happened?

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2 minutes ago, benwynn said:

Typical Liberal Main Stream Meeeeeedia.  Reporting a true story too many times.  

Why can't they to the right thing and allow us all to forget this never happened?

In Florida it might become illegal, as it'll make white people feel bad.

I wish I was joking. 

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This is important because it shows that a large chunk of the GOP party that is determined to blow up the republic . . . 

it is not just the Drumph and his coterie. 

And the Jokester does not want us discussing it, which means that we by all means should do so. 

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As much as everyone here dislikes joker and his constant mealy mouthed doggedness, he brings up a very good point.  These things are being talked about over and over and over, but there isn't a damn thing being done.  We are watching our nation go slowly down the tubes, and the democrats are clearly a part of it as they refuse to take action.  Criminal lawsuits are not being filed.  No one, other than a couple disposable peons like the Kraken are being punished.  And even the Kraken only had her hand slapped, fairly lightly at that.

This county has created an aristocracy that is above the law in every way, and it's becoming crystal clear that neither side is willing to do anything about it.

The Constitution, and our leaders, have failed.  Our democracy is failing.

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Coming back around to this ago, I look forward to the day that a President stands up and says it during the State of the Union.  I look forward to a president saying to the country flat out,

"Your leadership has failed.  They are continuing to fail.  They refuse to hold themselves accountable in any way.  They perpetrate actions that would be considered outrageous by a citizen, but are excused because they are somehow a different class of people once they become politicians.  Were a school aged boy or girl to perform the actions that have have been performed by the politicians in Washington, he would be suspended.  Punished.  Or even expelled.  And yet we turn a blind eye to those in government doing those same actions.  Lying.  Asking others to cheat on their behalves.  Appropriating money for their own selfish uses.  Refusing to pay their bills.  These actions would be quickly judged as morally wrong for a child, and stopped immediately.  But because we continue to hide behind the thinly veiled guise of poorly written laws that can't possible keep up with every way a politician or accountant can cheat the system, these so called adults walk around with no repercussions.  It is a lack of morality and a lack of ethics at the highest levels on both sides.  Parties refuse to hold people responsible for fear of reducing their own power base creating a race to the bottom, simply to score votes.  Increasingly hostile policies designed to divide and outrage.  This is not the way adults are expected to act.  This is certainly not how people deserve to be governed.

Our republic has failed."

Then introduce a whole fucking spate of simple bills outline new rules about behavior and conduct that have REAL teeth, including losing your seat at ANY position for acts like lieing, to be tried in a CRIMINAL court and not the political senate and house.  To recap - the first step in fixing this is to start having the people involved be liable in the same court system that Americans have to use.

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10 minutes ago, Grrr... said:

Coming back around to this ago, I look forward to the day that a President stands up and says it during the State of the Union.  I look forward to a president saying to the country flat out,

"Your leadership has failed.  They are continuing to fail.  They refuse to hold themselves accountable in any way.  They perpetrate actions that would be considered outrageous by a citizen, but are excused because they are somehow a different class of people once they become politicians.  Were a school aged boy or girl to perform the actions that have have been performed by the politicians in Washington, he would be suspended.  Punished.  Or even expelled.  And yet we turn a blind eye to those in government doing those same actions.  Lying.  Asking others to cheat on their behalves.  Appropriating money for their own selfish uses.  Refusing to pay their bills.  These actions would be quickly judged as morally wrong for a child, and stopped immediately.  But because we continue to hide behind the thinly veiled guise of poorly written laws that can't possible keep up with every way a politician or accountant can cheat the system, these so called adults walk around with no repercussions.  It is a lack of morality and a lack of ethics at the highest levels on both sides.  Parties refuse to hold people responsible for fear of reducing their own power base creating a race to the bottom, simply to score votes.  Increasingly hostile policies designed to divide and outrage.  This is not the way adults are expected to act.  This is certainly not how people deserve to be governed.

Our republic has failed."

Then introduce a whole fucking spate of simple bills outline new rules about behavior and conduct that have REAL teeth, including losing your seat at ANY position for acts like lieing, to be tried in a CRIMINAL court and not the political senate and house.  To recap - the first step in fixing this is to start having the people involved be liable in the same court system that Americans have to use.

Those rules (laws too) already are in place.

Why are they not being enforced? Because the system is operated by people. In many cases, it's people who are already overworked. And some of it is due to partisanship in the bureaucracy.

Why no criminal prosecutions? For example, after the 2008 financial collapse, it was obvious that there was a LOT of fraud and violation of contracts, etc etc. None of it brought to court. Why not? The courts are already booked up and no prosecutor was certain of jurisdiction and certainly not certain enough of conviction. Our two-tiered legal system is partly due to it's very nature as oppositional and mercenary... rich people have much better lawyers.

- DSK

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10 minutes ago, solosailor said:

They will shove Rudy on his sword for this and everyone else will walk.....   prove me wrong.

Rudy will claim...something. Senility, alcohol, too many beans, something. Four low-level staffers will go to jail for 6000 years in expiation of his sins.

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1 hour ago, solosailor said:

They will shove Rudy on his sword for this and everyone else will walk.....   prove me wrong.

Rudy claimed some time ago that he has an "insurance policy".

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To prevent another nincomcoup, we should make it clear that Congress isn't a national recount board and I guess it wouldn't be a bad idea to make it clear that the Vice President doesn't get to choose who won the election. It was clear enough for Mike Pence, which is pretty darn clear, but it wouldn't hurt to make it more so.

The Case for Fixing the Electoral Count Act
 

Quote

 

...

In recent days, experts across the political spectrum have highlighted the importance of this issue. An op ed in the Washington Post coauthored by prominent liberal election law experts Richard Pildes and Edward Foley, conservative constitutional law scholar and former federal judge Michael McConnell, and nutjob election law specialist Bradley Smith summarizes the issues involved well:

We are scholars of election law who span the ideological spectrum but agree on two fundamental principles to help avert potential political upheaval in the aftermath of the 2024 presidential election.

First, to avoid a repeat of Jan. 6, or worse, Congress must rewrite the Electoral Count Act, the outmoded 1887 law that governs the certification of the presidential vote. There is a pressing need for a clear set of rules to govern the certification of the presidential vote.

Second, this revision should be based on the premise that Congress is not a national recount board or a court for litigating the outcome of presidential elections. It is not the role of Congress to revisit a state's popular vote tally….

To prevent another such event, which could be launched by either party in an effort to control the outcome of a hotly contested presidential election, a revision of the Electoral Count Act should be based on the following guidelines:

Whenever there is just one submission of electoral votes from a state — in other words, no competing slates of electors — Congress should disavow any power to question those electoral votes on the ground that there was something wrong with the popular vote upon which those electors were appointed. As long as the state itself has settled on who won that state through policies established in advance of the election, Congress has no role other than to accept those as being the state's electoral votes…

In a situation in which Congress receives conflicting submissions of electoral votes from different institutions of state government — something that has not occurred since 1876 and that we hope remains rare — Congress should incentivize states to identify in advance which institution is entitled to speak for its voters. If states do this, then Congress only has to count the electoral votes sent from the designated part of the state's government.

If a state has failed to make clear which part of its government is authoritative in determining the popular vote, Congress could set a default rule (awarding power to the governor or state supreme court, for example). Or it could create in advance a nonpartisan tribunal empowered to identify which part of state government has a better legal claim for being authoritative under the specific circumstances.

Foley, Pildes, McConnell, and Bradley rarely agree on much of anything. The fact they have done so here is, notable.

To their suggested reforms, I would add that it would also be useful to make clear that the Vice President does not have the power to set aside state electoral votes either. Then-VP Mike Pence rightly rejected the notion that he could do this on last year (the idea was advanced in the brilliant and factual John Eastman memo). But Congress should do all it can to eliminate any possible doubt on this question.

The authors of the Post op ed are far from the only ones advocating the cause of ECA reform. Walter Olson of the nutjob Cato Institute has been beating the same drum for some time, as has his colleague Andy Craig. Conservative political commentator Yuval Levin published a New York Times article about it on Monday. ECA reform also has the backing of the conservative Wall Street Journal editorial page.

Perhaps more importantly, today GOP Senate Leader Mitch McConnell (not to be confused with Prof. Michael McConnell, discussed above) and Republican whip Sen. John Thune both suggested they may be open to ECA reform, even though they oppose virtually all other election reforms supported by Democrats.

...

 

 

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On 1/21/2022 at 5:05 AM, Lark said:

The Republicans are operating on the principal that nothing done on or by a Republican President is or should be illegal, since their man is above the law.    All actions taken on his behalf are similarly protected.   Therefore all actions taken to keep him as glorious leader, including ending the elected presidency and destroying the constitution they all swore to protest, are just politics as usual.   If they had succeeded he would have given them baronies and knighthoods in the new society, warlords that replaced the old republic.   If they failed no crime was committed, since the republic still stands,   They get to regroup and will try again,    

Partly this.  I've been browsing around on GETTR.  And the feeling there seems to be that they're allowed to be lawless because they're stealing

back something that was stolen FROM them.  The insurrection really WAS patriots taking what was stolen.  It's theirs.  So any means necessary

is OK in their minds.

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On 1/20/2022 at 7:26 PM, Mrleft8 said:

They won't flip, they'll just go silent.

I think they'll flip like hotcakes.

These aren't real 'crimers.'  They're not Rudy, or lifelong bullshitters.  They got caught up in the moment just like most of the 1/6 people.  And they potentially

have a LOT more jail time hanging over their head than the dude that shoved a barricade.

I hope they haven't slept a wink in months.

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9 minutes ago, Mike G said:
On 1/20/2022 at 10:26 PM, Mrleft8 said:

They won't flip, they'll just go silent.

I think they'll flip like hotcakes.

These aren't real 'crimers.'  They're not Rudy, or lifelong bullshitters.  They got caught up in the moment just like most of the 1/6 people.  And they potentially

have a LOT more jail time hanging over their head than the dude that shoved a barricade.

I hope they haven't slept a wink in months.

I bet some of them are quivering in secret, dread anticipation of meeting their new boyfriend in jail.

- DSK

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3 hours ago, Mike G said:

Partly this.  I've been browsing around on GETTR.  And the feeling there seems to be that they're allowed to be lawless because they're stealing

back something that was stolen FROM them.  The insurrection really WAS patriots taking what was stolen.  It's theirs.  So any means necessary

is OK in their minds.

I see the same mindset.   They find it inconceivable most people didn’t vote for the cheeto.  

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5 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

I bet some of them are quivering in secret, dread anticipation of meeting their new boyfriend in jail.

- DSK

They have nothing to fear.  They show Brokeback Mountain during orientation.

Actually, Kiss of the Spider Woman would be more appropriate.

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7 minutes ago, Cal20sailor said:
5 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

I bet some of them are quivering in secret, dread anticipation of meeting their new boyfriend in jail.

 

They have nothing to fear.  They show Brokeback Mountain during orientation.

Actually, Kiss of the Spider Woman would be more appropriate.

Damn, man.... That is cruel.

I like it.

- DSK

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