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Yes.

Looks like they are all sailing F18s.  There could be some trials and tribulations this year.  The bad weather up the coast is projected to head south.  Looks like thunder storms near the start line today.  Maybe they will have a sunny clear day for the start after that storm moves through.

Screen Shot 2022-05-07 at 9.49.45 AM.png

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I'm about to go to the beach and hang out with the teams. Will take a video or two.

Was hoping to sail along the first leg but lots of family/work logistics had to line up and they didn't.

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Was there yesterday. There's good stuff being posted on FB. Some teams promise to livestream the start. One boat has a 14yo crewing for a couple legs - my son (12yo) would love to drive a couple legs. In fact if Florida 300 comes back we'd be game.

Go Team Sonnenklar! 

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Bump n Grind started a Worrell 1000 thread in Ocean Racing Anarchy but it seems like there’s definitely more participation in the thread here. 
I’d have to look up when the Worrell started but as a young’un a thousand years ago it seemed to be one of those quirky extreme unrelatable things that happen in the other side of the world but (as I wrote in the other thread): 

I gotta say that the stories of the challenges they face and the "fun" they have that have been related to me by one of Worrell 1000’s greatest exponents, Rod Waterhouse, leave me wanting to join in and to never ever want to join in both at the same time but none-the-less demonstrate those who actually make the huge effort to organise themselves, train themselves and have the gifts of skills and determination (aka sheer bloody madness and daring-do) to participate and especially to complete the course (if Murphy, Hewie and the Fat Lady are kept at bay) leave me in awe of the sailors of this race. 

 
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Shocking that Randy Smyth can crush a fleet so handily?  Actually it is a bit shocking that in a pretty physical sport he can still put the wood to the younger pups.  Anybody know which makes/models of F-18 each team is using?  

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1 hour ago, mundt said:

Shocking that Randy Smyth can crush a fleet so handily?  Actually it is a bit shocking that in a pretty physical sport he can still put the wood to the younger pups.  Anybody know which makes/models of F-18 each team is using?  

Agreed on Randy. Impressive. Top 4 boats are Nacra F18, identically configured I think – except one of the teams has a regular main rather than decksweeper. 

There's a couple Akurras and there's at least one C2.

The listing is on the website (competitors page). It got updated recently. Some teams are racing on whatever they could get their hands on, rather than the boat they meant to sail, bc boat shipments have, um... not been reliable. 

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The boards on Sir Smyth's boat look really interesting, really fast too.  Is there an F18 model out there that would maybe be faster?  You'd have to surmise that today's beatdown was mostly the result of a simply masterful, next-level performance by the winners.  If they sail tomorrow it could be really tough out there.  I know it's sacrilegious to utter these words but do any of these guy have a way to reef their mains?  If it does blow 30 with the forecasted sea state and they are forced to reach that would require some very high level skills and probably some luck to finish.  What type of self-flagellation shall I perform to cleanse myself from using the word "reef?"  I do believe though, that if you gotta reach in that kinda wind a full main is gonna be a problem.  I believe!  Hallelujah!

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    I went to visit dear old Mum for the weekend and was telling my nephew the story of my entry in the 1997 Worrell and leading Randy Smyth (briefly...). Then I get home and read this! That year was pretty much 'run what you brung' and Smyth's custom Team Domino and our Gumbo Mudder SuperCat were by far the most radical. Neither boat was really ready in time for the race and we both dismasted the first day but did get jury rigged during the night but failed to make the second start in Satellite Beach and got disqualified. Smyth was pissed but I got invited to join the race committee... Crazy times and stories from that adventure!

 

 

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One thing I forgot to mention is that all the top boats but Randy had some kind of incident. Second boat in hit a turtle and had an MOB situation. Other boats had other turtle crashes, or didn't realize they were carrying seaweed. Sonnenklar had the leeward (port) shroud detached (how did this happen?!), and had to sail slow for a bit while the crew solved it, etc, etc.

Execution execution execution. And not hitting invisible turtles. 

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2 hours ago, mundt said:

I know it's sacrilegious to utter these words but do any of these guy have a way to reef their mains? 

F16 sail?

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10 hours ago, mundt said:

I know it's sacrilegious to utter these words but do any of these guy have a way to reef their mains?

It's called 'downhaul.' To quote the leader: "flat is fast."

 

another quote from @martin 'hoff: "Sonnenklar had the leeward (port) shroud detached (how did this happen?!),"

I guess taping the rigging is just for us old farts. Hell we do that with our 40' cruising cat. Sometimes the old ways are good ways.

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18 hours ago, mundt said:

The boards on Sir Smyth's boat look really interesting, really fast too.  Is there an F18 model out there that would maybe be faster?  You'd have to surmise that today's beatdown was mostly the result of a simply masterful, next-level performance by the winners.  If they sail tomorrow it could be really tough out there.  I know it's sacrilegious to utter these words but do any of these guy have a way to reef their mains?  If it does blow 30 with the forecasted sea state and they are forced to reach that would require some very high level skills and probably some luck to finish.  What type of self-flagellation shall I perform to cleanse myself from using the word "reef?"  I do believe though, that if you gotta reach in that kinda wind a full main is gonna be a problem.  I believe!  Hallelujah!

I sailed the Worrell in 1982 and 83 in Hobie 16's.  First time in my life I ever reefed a Hobie main was in 1983 in 30-45 knot winds off of north carolina.  ... and no jib.. No way I would have left the beach with more sail up.  (The wind came up halfway thru the leg, so we had a bit of fun with the full kit for a while until we came to our senses.)  I didnt see any reefing ability on any of the F-18 cats.. Sometimes hitting the beach is the better part of valor.    

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The wind is on the nose again on leg 2.  The tracker is showing Rudees with a healthy lead.

Presumably Rudees has some sort of an edge upwind. 

It did not look that windy at the start, but maybe it is building.

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 I think Rudee's edge is Randy Smyth.   sailflow has it 28 gusting to 33 at Sebastian Inlet. Glad I'm on the beach.

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4 minutes ago, rbell82 said:

 I think Rudee's edge is Randy Smyth.   sailflow has it 28 gusting to 33 at Sebastian Inlet. Glad I'm on the beach.

He knows the course and has another Super Crew Dalton Trumbo.

 

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Crew really has a huge input into how fast these boats go.  I was nothing without my crew on my old Nacra (hey bud, I see you there, been a while).

Dalton is one of the best.  Really cool dude too.

Seeing these pics makes me really nostalgic to get back on a boat again.

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Video update from the RC on the Facebook page.  It sounds like the weather conditions are winning today.  There are 7+ boats in various states of disrepair and 5 boats still sailing.  At this time all crew members are safe and accounted for other than one team without a working tracker.  Team Rudee's has a broken mast and is on the beach.  

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Looks like a rough day. I’m glad all the crew are safe so far. 
 

what an amazing job by the boats still sailing and their crews. 90+ miles upwind in big waves and 30 knot winds is not something I would want to endure on the helm much less on the sheets!

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All teams accounted for and on shore. 4 boats (of 14) completed the leg today. Tomorrow's leg is skipped, everyone drives north. Racing resumes on Thurs from Jax.

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Posted (edited)

They are trailering to Daytona, not Jax. The owner of the beach access there would not permit the crews with boats on trailers ( all but 4) to cross his property, so there was no way to get the boats down to the beach.  He did allow the 4 boats on the beach to use his access to leave, so they really had no choice but to trailer out.. that plus all of the schedule ( hotels, welcome events, etc.) would be blown if they sat on the beach at Cocoa and waited a day.   A number of the boats had pretty major repairs to make..  So, as tough as the race is, the combination of exhausted sailors working all night to repair their boats then have to relaunch the next morning in 20-30 mph north winds and 7-10 ' seas was not  safe, in my opinion. (not that anyone asked me, I'm just viewing on line.)  

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The DNF penalty for the race appears to be (last finishers ET) + 6 hours.   Ouch, that's gonna hurt! 

Randy Smyth managed to get a 20 minute lead on day one.  Now he's 7 hours behind the leader, it's going to be hard to make up the DNF unless all four of the leaders have to take one in the future. 
image.thumb.png.52b9731e035d928f7c0369b547e50926.png
 

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So 10 of the 13 boats are Nacra;s.  And 8 of those are the newer Evolution model, while two are the older Infusion model (which there are several variations of) 

The boat which suffered the big ugly hull fracture was the lone Goodall C2. 

The top 5 boats (the four who finished yesterday, plus Team Rudee's (Randy Smyth)) are all Nacra Evolutions 

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Go Team Australia, I’m in total awe of Rod Waterhouse.He must be in (or close to) his sixties now! That finish yesterday shows extreme fitness ( and skill) for someone in that age group. 

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^^ also bad luck to Randy, who must also be getting quite long in the tooth, but still showing the young tacklers how it’s done. I don’t know about the USA but in Australia it’s amazing how many ex serious Hobie racers from 30 or 40years ago are still winning races in differing classes and sizes of multihulls.

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On 5/12/2022 at 5:27 AM, ricwoz said:

So 10 of the 13 boats are Nacra;s.  And 8 of those are the newer Evolution model, while two are the older Infusion model (which there are several variations of) 

The boat which suffered the big ugly hull fracture was the lone Goodall C2. 

The top 5 boats (the four who finished yesterday, plus Team Rudee's (Randy Smyth)) are all Nacra Evolutions 

the team with the C2 that fractured found their spare boat had fractured in the same place, so trailered it to the start of the next leg, I haven’t heard of this being a problem with C2’s and wondering if it was how they were trailered or handled.

How good is the lady commentating this race, she obviously knows her sailing and it’s a pity we don’t have her commentating for Sail GP. Her voice is happy and up beat but not over the top as well as knowing her stuff

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On 5/9/2022 at 11:29 PM, randii said:

F16 sail?

Not a bad idea.  I don't have time to go through the F18 Class rules at the moment, but the Worrell boats are all required to comply with F18 regs down to the dot.  So if the F18 requires a sail of a maximum size and does not stipulate a minimum, that could certainly work.

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From the tracking map it looks like the Netherlands boat closest to shore is lifted and ahead, whilst the boats closer to the rumb line are headed.  This may be a year  where the rumb line guys get worked.  The captain of the Dutch team, Mr. Loos has won many tittles in the past.  I was wondering why they were at the back before this.  They are only 1/3 of the way so far and there are weird weather patterns about, but maybe team Holland will win this leg.

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5 hours ago, david r said:

From the tracking map it looks like the Netherlands boat closest to shore is lifted and ahead, whilst the boats closer to the rumb line are headed.  This may be a year  where the rumb line guys get worked.  The captain of the Dutch team, Mr. Loos has won many tittles in the past.  I was wondering why they were at the back before this.  They are only 1/3 of the way so far and there are weird weather patterns about, but maybe team Holland will win this leg.

EVERY year the rhumb line guys get worked on this leg. Inside is sketchy but definitely the way to go.

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Those are some great sailors. Randy is a legend. If he's on the starting line I don't even bother to figure out the start, I just follow him. When he starts sheeting in, it's go time on our boat too. Truly great sailor who can make any boat go fast.

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http://kws.kattack.com/WPlayer/WPosDisplay.aspx?FeedID=1909

Also has a leaderboard shows some real time display during the legs.  The overall leaderboard, though, doesn't seem to show (right now) the penalties imposed for the DNF leg.

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47 minutes ago, MultiThom said:

http://kws.kattack.com/WPlayer/WPosDisplay.aspx?FeedID=1909

Also has a leaderboard shows some real time display during the legs.  The overall leaderboard, though, doesn't seem to show (right now) the penalties imposed for the DNF leg.

It was imposed on the Jensen to Cocoa leg.

17.5. Any team not finishing a leg before the start signal for the next leg will be scored DNF 
without a hearing and without redress. Any boat not finishing a leg of any stage will 
receive a time penalty of the finishing time of the last boat plus six (6) hours without a 
hearing and without redress. Teams that incur three DNF penalties are disqualified 
without a hearing, and without appeal. This changes RSS scoring and redress rules. 

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19 hours ago, david r said:

Almost 14 hours later and the leaders are neck and neck reaching along at 8 knots.  Rudees, and Australia.

The 2 times i sailed this leg, the fleet took the rhumb line. Was early 80's.

 The 8 times I've raced that leg the rhumb line never paid. I've done the rhumb, split between the two (that was the absolute worst) and run the inside and the inside always worked. The Fleet may "take" the rhumbline ,and they often do, but that doesn't mean it's the fastest. Herd mentality is a bitch.

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13 hours ago, MauganTornado said:

During the T500, I never came into Tybee at night.  Can't imagine trying to cross the Tybee Triangle at night with those deep-ass F18 boards.  Even during the day it sneaks up on you.

 

That is a weird approach at night. You feel farther offshore  and North of what you truly are, and the pier helps block the finish a bit adding to the confusion. 

 

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On 5/12/2022 at 8:06 PM, madboutcats said:

the team with the C2 that fractured found their spare boat had fractured in the same place, so trailered it to the start of the next leg, I haven’t heard of this being a problem with C2’s and wondering if it was how they were trailered or handled.

How good is the lady commentating this race, she obviously knows her sailing and it’s a pity we don’t have her commentating for Sail GP. Her voice is happy and up beat but not over the top as well as knowing her stuff

Certainly strange, but C2’s have been known to split at the seams. Add in the sub-optimal rudder system and the lower volume compared with new designs and it’s the last boat I would choose for the race. 
 

My choice-an Evo with a Mk. 2 Infusion on a trailer as a spare (95% of the parts are direct swaps). Backup choice would be an eXploder Scorpion. Arguably a faster hull (its won the last 4 worlds after all), but the rudder system would be a challenge in the surf and the paint a pain to fix 10 beach landings later.

Randy and Dalton are clearly fast, but I have zero sympathy for their mast breakage. I’ve never heard of a F18 mast folding while sailing upwind. They took a huge risk moving the trapeze attachment to the spinnaker bail location and likely suffered the consequences. 

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On 5/15/2022 at 2:57 AM, madboutcats said:

I wondered how they broke the mast

I was probably a bit too definitive in my statement. The team said they stuffed the bows into a large wave and the mast folded. This is the general failure mode on an F18; kite up, bear away into the wave in front of you, stuff it hard while the helm is easing the mainsheet, snap/fold. In this case, they were going upwind. I've personally never heard of an F18 rig folding with only 2 sails up, but it is pretty rare to be sailing upwind in 30kts+ and 10'+ seas. My point earlier was the additional compression loads on the rig from moving the trapeze location higher up the mast could have been a contributing factor. I'll talk to Dalton when the race is over and get his take on the situation.

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Somebody with a large brain please explain the design of the Yellow boat that won today's leg.  The crew mentioned that they did something and then squirted away from Rudees?  They even flipped once and still pounded the fleet.  The bows look like a variation of the "seaplane" bows that have been tried before with mixed results.  Seems like the bows worked in heavier air with the kites up.  

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My understanding is most of the fleet flipped at least once, so that wasn't necessarily a handicap. Watching the interview, Matthieu said they "removed the little wheels on the back of the boat"...i.e the training wheels. Just a joke.

The 901 is quick in big breeze downwind, where the Cirrus R1 and R2 were also proven performers. The basis for the design was in the SCOW bows from the various Mini's/Class 40s and IMOC 60's of late. I think they went for a full seaplane float design, with a step at the back, the theory being one hull would fully plane. Certainly the hull volume forward helps in big conditions off the breeze. The issue with the design IMO is that its essentially a 16' boat when sailing upwind. Other notes:

1) The team on the Cirrus 901 are world class sailors, capable of challenging for a podium finish at any big F18 event, and to date they have not lived up to that potential while sailing the 901 (note lack of performance upwind).

2) The Cirrus R2 was already quick in big breeze, and actually a pretty good all-around performer. I was quite surprised they went for an even higher volume hull shape than the R2 with the 901! Had they simply shrunk the R2 hull shape down a bit, I think they would have had a very solid all-around performer to compete with the Scorpion/Evolution/Akurra.

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but it is pretty rare to be sailing upwind in 30kts+ and 10'+ seas.

Yeah, in this race, those conditions happen.  Usually not sustained while in Florida, but you'll get hit by the squalls coming off the coast.  Once the race gets to the Carolinas, those conditions get more and more frequent.


It's why, IMO the Nacra 20 was probably the best boat for this race.  It had just enough modern performance but also the "beefiness" to put up with the conditions - and even it had problems in certain areas (rudder gudgeons and castings... rear beam separations) but those minor pain points were figured out over time and mostly resolved.

 

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If I were ever going to do the Worrell again (God forbid...) I think I would choose the SuperCat 20 again. I just wouldn't put a grossly overbuilt carbon wing mast with many untested ideas as we did the first time around. The Frenchman who designed and fabricated our mast had done his military service in the French airforce and was an airframe mechanic for those Mirage composite fighters. His composite skills were admirable but the spar was nearly 100 lbs before paint! I wanted to route out panels aft of the web and between the ribs and replace with clear Mylar just as you see on the GPSail cats of today but my co-captain thought that if carbon fiber was a good thing, more carbon fiber would only be better. The carbon rig on Randy's former Pacific 1000 Prindle 19 (Team Graphiti) was a beauty but no match for getting dragged backwards by the current into the Oregon Inlet bridge. 

    Our welded aluminum pivoting mast hound attachment failed at Lake Worth and the ground crew replaced it during the night with a simple four hole padeye and a Jesus Shackle. We got about another 25 miles up the coast before the Frenchman fell asleep at the helm and steered us into the surf!  

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13 minutes ago, Fat Point Jack said:

Could ya do it on beefed up version of Randy's Sissors?

As a Hobie 16 sailor sailing on Lake Michigan in Gary, Indiana my only following was Multihulls Magazine, Three Cheers for Charles Chiodi, 3 months later.

You started, I dreamed.

If you can get 5 on the line as a class... then you could try.

 

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I actually made a scale model of my Worrell inspired knockoff of Slingshot. I was working in a boatshop in Nahant 'turbo'ing a Newick 40 tri. The Gougeon brothers had recently set a world speed sailing record with their hard chine ply main hull with half length amas mounted on an aluminum ladder frame and could hide out to windward a ridiculous amount. Much like the sliding seat of an international canoe. I figured if I could make the idea work at 20' and stay together getting in and out of the surf it might do well on the long reaches on which this race is won.  I had just seen what Seaman's fold up hiking racks work and what was really neat about that innovation was the mounting to Harken slides on a traveller mounted on the rail. The aluminum rack bodies were actually those air ambulance litters that are sort of a Geodesic nature and look like this. From fully hiked out on one of these you could pull a couple of lines and the whole rack you were riding could move from the capstays to the aft beam. I wanted to couple that action to the rack of my short amas so it was pretty close to what Randy's Sizzors was. The surf of that course scared me off anyway! 

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1 hour ago, F18 Sailor said:

My understanding is most of the fleet flipped at least once, so that wasn't necessarily a handicap. Watching the interview, Matthieu said they "removed the little wheels on the back of the boat"...i.e the training wheels. Just a joke.

The 901 is quick in big breeze downwind, where the Cirrus R1 and R2 were also proven performers. The basis for the design was in the SCOW bows from the various Mini's/Class 40s and IMOC 60's of late. I think they went for a full seaplane float design, with a step at the back, the theory being one hull would fully plane. Certainly the hull volume forward helps in big conditions off the breeze. The issue with the design IMO is that its essentially a 16' boat when sailing upwind. Other notes:

1) The team on the Cirrus 901 are world class sailors, capable of challenging for a podium finish at any big F18 event, and to date they have not lived up to that potential while sailing the 901 (note lack of performance upwind).

2) The Cirrus R2 was already quick in big breeze, and actually a pretty good all-around performer. I was quite surprised they went for an even higher volume hull shape than the R2 with the 901! Had they simply shrunk the R2 hull shape down a bit, I think they would have had a very solid all-around performer to compete with the Scorpion/Evolution/Akurra.

Overall, the French designs have always been good performers downwind especially in breeze. My Phantom was the same way, lots of volume where you needed it. Here's a pic of Matthieu and I in SF a few years back. Matt flew around headstay at the bear away but we still were able to save it and keep going. Other boats, not so much.

IMG_5006a.jpg

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3 hours ago, mundt said:

please explain the design of the Yellow boat that won today's leg. 

 

3 hours ago, F18 Sailor said:

The basis for the design was in the SCOW bows from the various Mini's/Class 40s and IMOC 60's of late. I think they went for a full seaplane float design, with a step at the back, the theory being one hull would fully plane. Certainly the hull volume forward helps in big conditions off the breeze. The issue with the design IMO is that its essentially a 16' boat when sailing upwind.

Waterline length is king in displacement sailing, but when you can get up on a plane, it isn’t. So if the Cirrus 901 can’t plane upwind, it will be slower than more conventional hulls and would need to make up the difference downwind, where it can plane.

All hulls are capable of planing. Not many can upwind. 49’ers and 18 ft skiffs plane when hull speed reaches ~ 1.8 LWL^0.5. Most dinghy and sports boats plane somewhere between 2.0-2.5 and a slalom water ski at ~5.0. Load/planing areas and front/planing edge widths are what count. Better for planing to keep both hulls in the water, because it doubles planing area and leading edge width for the same load. If you can’t plane, you need to get the windward hull out of the water ASAP.

Narrow semi circular cat hull sections with fine bows have very little effective planing area, and virtually no leading/planing edge, so the Speed/Length ratio needed to plane is usually unobtainable under sail. You would need to tow them behind a seriously fast motor boat to find their planing speed.

Plenty of dynamic lift from wide flat sections and rocker up front helps to keep the nose up and out. The extra volume and water shedding topsides helps to get the nose out when buried and reduce tripping, with less windage (and “waveage”) up front to push the bows away. The same forward sections would also be slow in light sloppy conditions upwind.

Pay your money at make your choice!

Conditions for this leg seemed ideal for the Yellow boat.

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The Cirrus 901 can’t plane upwind, nor can any F18. We get into a semi-planning mode at around 12kts of boat speed upwind, where the leeward hull is providing plenty of dynamic lift. This is partly why flatter sections from the daggerboard trunk aft as found on the Scorpion, C2, Akurra and Evo are effective. Still, to get there, it’s helpful to have the full 18’ of waterline working in your favor, and in less than 10kts of breeze it’s absolutely critical.

Hopefully all the boats have a safe and quick leg today!

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Mr. Irrational, amazing pic, love that mainsail!

Mr. Sidecar, your brain is indeed very enormous, thank you!

Anybody else notice that the average age of the participants is somewhere in the AARP zone?  Very tough hombres to handle the punishment day after day. I’m guessing there might be some Ibuprofen involved.  I’d bet that in the early days the average age was mid-twenties, now it looks like 50-60+???  Great event. 

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56 minutes ago, F18 Sailor said:

The Cirrus 901 can’t plane upwind, nor can any F18. We get into a semi-planning mode at around 12kts of boat speed upwind, where the leeward hull is providing plenty of dynamic lift. This is partly why flatter sections from the daggerboard trunk aft as found on the Scorpion, C2, Akurra and Evo are effective. Still, to get there, it’s helpful to have the full 18’ of waterline working in your favor, and in less than 10kts of breeze it’s absolutely critical.

Out of curiosity:

What TWS do you have for 12 knots boat speed upwind? What boat speed upwind would you have at 10 knots TWS?

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1 hour ago, mundt said:

Mr. Irrational, amazing pic, love that mainsail!

Mr. Sidecar, your brain is indeed very enormous, thank you!

Anybody else notice that the average age of the participants is somewhere in the AARP zone?  Very tough hombres to handle the punishment day after day. I’m guessing there might be some Ibuprofen involved.  I’d bet that in the early days the average age was mid-twenties, now it looks like 50-60+???  Great event. 

I resemble that remark! I was in my mid-thirties and would if I was in this years Worrell I would be in my late 60's...

The-Legend-Has-Retired-Not-My-Problem-Anymore-Personalized-Shirt-Retirement-Gift-For-Husband-Dad-Grandpa-Mockup-1_5000x.jpeg?v=1647084092

    I think this shirt says it all. But that must be Richard Spindler.

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That yellow boat is really slow today.  They got passed by Netherlands during the last 20 minutes.  Those are the only 2 boats near shore.  The rest are headed for the layline for the point way out to sea in much different wind.....according to the trackers

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On 5/12/2022 at 9:40 AM, he b gb said:

Go Team Australia, I’m in total awe of Rod Waterhouse.He must be in (or close to) his sixties now! That finish yesterday shows extreme fitness ( and skill) for someone in that age group. 

Chris Way his crew is also in his mid sixties, Pretty fit for an old bloke though :)

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On 5/14/2022 at 1:47 PM, Foghorn77 said:

 The 8 times I've raced that leg the rhumb line never paid. I've done the rhumb, split between the two (that was the absolute worst) and run the inside and the inside always worked. The Fleet may "take" the rhumbline ,and they often do, but that doesn't mean it's the fastest. Herd mentality is a bitch.

probably if you raced a ninth time, taking the outside approach will pay on one of the legs:)

Certainly banging the corner the furthest out to sea paid today. 2 boast on the beach during twilight and the fleet due in later tonight. Some, the ones that took the shoreline, much later.

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