Tugboat 55 Posted October 17, 2005 Share Posted October 17, 2005 From Crew.org.nz... If anyone has any ideas of what this cat is and where it is from I think the NZ Rescue Coordination Centre would like to know. 16 Oct - The NZ Multihull Yacht Club has received an email and photographs from the Rescue Co-ordination Centre of New Zealand asking if any of its members can identify a partially submerged multihull that was sighted on 14 Oct by the crew of a merchant ship on passage from New Zealand to Brisbane, approx 173km SW of Norfolk Island. Link... Mystery Catamaran More pics... Link to post Share on other sites
Rajinder 1 Posted October 17, 2005 Share Posted October 17, 2005 Damn! First glance it looks like one of the big Outremers. I did not hear of one going down... or being abandoned though. I'll dig a bit. JOMBP Link to post Share on other sites
Veeger 370 Posted October 17, 2005 Share Posted October 17, 2005 Kind of looks like a Schionning design and sure looks like it has been floating around for a number of months. Link to post Share on other sites
AussieSailorChick 2 Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 Oh gosh! That is one of the saddest sights I have seen in ages.... Like a skeleton floating around in the sea - where is her family?? Link to post Share on other sites
Recidivist 626 Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 Kind of looks like a Schionning design and sure looks like it has been floating around for a number of months. Agree - the offset door to the bridgedeck saloon and the "seat back" with walk throughs make it look like a Schionning. The number of windows suggests it's about 14 metres. Someone must know about this, surely - the boat is(was) worth over $1/2M. Eerie - can't help but wonder if there's a skeleton inside Link to post Share on other sites
Eventually 2 Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 Your right there does looks a lot like this. Nothing like the Chamberlain suggested on Crew.org. Link to post Share on other sites
BoatSlut 19 Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 Well - at least its still floating - and in one piece Vote One - Foam Cruising cats Link to post Share on other sites
duncan (the other one) 670 Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 Looks almost like it fell off a container ship. There's absolutely no rigging to be seen, and its not clea if there's even any lifelines. Daggerboards are there, though. Link to post Share on other sites
Jacko_Aus 0 Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 One of our guys suggested it might be a Chamberlain cat that he had been aboard, called Incinerator, a photo we found in Multihull World Magazine issue No. 72 April 2005, page 68 shows this boat and she has the exact window and port light configuration as well as the same deck line, step in cabin front and steering positions. I will post a photo of this on our web site for those who are interested and don't have a copy of Multihull World. www.schionningdesigns.com.au That's got my vote.... it flipped during the Shorthanded Assoc's Polar Challenge and, as far as I know they never recovered it.... Just after the start...... Black kite..... Link to post Share on other sites
hokie 14 Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 http://www.threepeaks.org.au/general_photos/incinerator.jpg Link to post Share on other sites
bunabaroo 0 Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 windows look the same layout hokie. but what are the large black squares on the cabin top in the photos that dont appear in the one you posted? are the covered solar panels? Link to post Share on other sites
Eventually 2 Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 173 nm SW of Norfolk. Good going in 3 weeks. Link to post Share on other sites
Jacko_Aus 0 Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 It's been a fair bit longer than three weeks.... The Polar challenge was in the middle of July.... so more like three months!!! Link to post Share on other sites
Tugboat 55 Posted October 18, 2005 Author Share Posted October 18, 2005 Certainly the side windows look almost identical and there are other similarities such as the triangular bit on the forward crossbeam. Shame as it looks like a nice boat and lost in what should have been a 3.5 hour or so race. Must have drifted a fair ways too from Sydney, out past Norfolk Island!! Link to post Share on other sites
Monkey 1,520 Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 It's been a fair bit longer than three weeks.... The Polar challenge was in the middle of July.... so more like three months!!! Thanks for clearing that up. I was just about to ask what the hell you guys dump in the water down on the other end of the earth. If all that growth was from 3 weeks, I don't even think I could keep my bottom clean if I drysailed. Link to post Share on other sites
Jacko_Aus 0 Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 Yeah... last we heard of it before this was that it had been seen from a cargo ship 200 miles off the coast a few weeks after the event. There was some pretty big westerlies on the day and for a couple of days after.... We were seeing 25+ knots a mile of two north of it at the time.... It's been a fair bit longer than three weeks.... The Polar challenge was in the middle of July.... so more like three months!!! Thanks for clearing that up. I was just about to ask what the hell you guys dump in the water down on the other end of the earth. If all that growth was from 3 weeks, I don't even think I could keep my bottom clean if I drysailed. I think you'll find that the water quality where it's been floating for the last few months probably rates VERY high on the "Pristine Scale".... Link to post Share on other sites
Monkey 1,520 Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 I assumed as much, I was just laughing at the week/month miscalculation. Link to post Share on other sites
spankoka 157 Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 Looks almost like it fell off a container ship. There's absolutely no rigging to be seen, and its not clea if there's even any lifelines. Daggerboards are there, though. I agree, this vessel looks like she was not in commission when she was abandoned. There would be something left of the mast/rig if she was dismasted. She isn't even trailing a line. Link to post Share on other sites
Jacko_Aus 0 Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 Looks almost like it fell off a container ship. There's absolutely no rigging to be seen, and its not clea if there's even any lifelines. Daggerboards are there, though. I agree, this vessel looks like she was not in commission when she was abandoned. There would be something left of the mast/rig if she was dismasted. She isn't even trailing a line. Rotating mast... so rigging maybe.... mast nnnnaaaahhhhh...... Link to post Share on other sites
Recidivist 626 Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 Thanks to Lorraine Schionning for their help with this - hope you visit SA regularly from now on and convert more sailors to the dark side! But if Incinerator flipped, how the hell did it get back upright? And what happened to the rig? OK, I can imagine the rig breaking and dropping off, but the boat had to come upright somehow - I always understood that cats were more stable upside down than right side up? This story hasn't finished! Link to post Share on other sites
JimC 760 Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 But if Incinerator flipped, how the hell did it get back upright? And what happened to the rig? OK, I can imagine the rig breaking and dropping off, but the boat had to come upright somehow - I always understood that cats were more stable upside down than right side up? Wires trailing in the water wouldn't be noticeable in those shots I don't think. And I'm quite sure there are plenty of waves in the Southern ocean that can flip a multi over and over, 'specially as I suspect it would probably lie beam on to the waves with no rig. Guess one could run a book on where it will be spotted next and which way up it will be:-) Link to post Share on other sites
PhilipNZ 95 Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 I smell a rat. Looks to me like everything of value was stripped from the boat and the hull(s) was scuttled. Of course they forgot she wouldnt sink Link to post Share on other sites
Jacko_Aus 0 Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 I think you guys need to put the foil helmets back on... Link to post Share on other sites
BoatSlut 19 Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 Yeah - I think it was aliens Link to post Share on other sites
the quiet one 0 Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 hey Jacko, you mentioned that this thing filpped over during the Polar Challenge in july. Now, Have i missed the news on this or was it never really reported on ?? Link to post Share on other sites
Jacko_Aus 0 Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 There a sooooooo many answers to a question like that... and I'm guessing you'd like none of them!!!!! You missed it mate... Happened about a mile or two further south from where your mates on the 40 turned back.... Link to post Share on other sites
the quiet one 0 Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 There a sooooooo many answers to a question like that... and I'm guessing you'd like none of them!!!!! You missed it mate... Happened about a mile or two further south from where your mates on the 40 turned back.... thanks for clearing that up the 'mates on the 40' mentioned that they thought it was odd that, while they had been watching the GPS for the turnaround point, and, as soon as they turned, there were alot of boats that simultaneously turned with them, albeit with a couple of miles to go I guess there may be a bit of error in some boats GPS's Link to post Share on other sites
Jacko_Aus 0 Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 They're having a lend of themselves..... Link to post Share on other sites
the quiet one 0 Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 ... if you say so, Jacko ..... Link to post Share on other sites
Recidivist 626 Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 I smell a rat. Looks to me like everything of value was stripped from the boat and the hull(s) was scuttled. Of course they forgot she wouldnt sink I wondered about that (ala Ocean Emu), but the second pic shows stanchions and another pic shows winches still in position. The rig missing doesn't phase me - one broken stay and it's down in one piece. The fatigue of the rig moving around continuously will break the other stays and the rig will separate from the boat entireley. But no way will a stable platform like an upside down cat re-right itself when it's got a few tons of water inside adding to the stability. JimC - despite horrific conditions, the 40' cat "Ramtha" stayed upright after the crew were taken off by a NZ warship (when they still had one). No rollover, even with mast still standing. "skinz" on the NZ site mentioned Incinerator flipped on it's side. It would be an incredibly buoyant mast to stop the boat turning turtle. But if she didn't flip right over, and still had the rig, she would drift with the masthead facing upwind. Could the wind get under the main and flip her back up like an off-the-beach cat? Seems bloody far-fetched to me! Anyone got info on whether Incinerator went right over? Link to post Share on other sites
RadSamui 0 Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 Thanks to Lorraine Schionning for their help with this - hope you visit SA regularly from now on and convert more sailors to the dark side! Break Out the Flashlights - BIG TIME!!! Link to post Share on other sites
Eventually 2 Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 I smell a rat. Looks to me like everything of value was stripped from the boat and the hull(s) was scuttled. Of course they forgot she wouldnt sink I wondered about that (ala Ocean Emu), but the second pic shows stanchions and another pic shows winches still in position. The rig missing doesn't phase me - one broken stay and it's down in one piece. The fatigue of the rig moving around continuously will break the other stays and the rig will separate from the boat entireley. But no way will a stable platform like an upside down cat re-right itself when it's got a few tons of water inside adding to the stability. JimC - despite horrific conditions, the 40' cat "Ramtha" stayed upright after the crew were taken off by a NZ warship (when they still had one). No rollover, even with mast still standing. "skinz" on the NZ site mentioned Incinerator flipped on it's side. It would be an incredibly buoyant mast to stop the boat turning turtle. But if she didn't flip right over, and still had the rig, she would drift with the masthead facing upwind. Could the wind get under the main and flip her back up like an off-the-beach cat? Seems bloody far-fetched to me! Anyone got info on whether Incinerator went right over? Jacko was there....the blokes were rescued from the boat upside down. Maybe its stripped....maybe its not. Can't tell from those pics. There are plenty of fishing boats...not all Aussie...in that bit of ocean. And I reckon there are waves out there in conditions such as we have seen in the last few weeks that could make waves to do that. Saying the Ocean doesn't or can't do that seems odd to me. Link to post Share on other sites
spankoka 157 Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 Point taken-stanchions and winches are visible in the 4th picture. Occam's Razor would suggest she is Incinerator. Link to post Share on other sites
Paraletic 0 Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 I would have to argree that there are wave big enough to role it back over, just imagine a scaled model on a surf beach. A breaking wave could do anything. my $0.02 Link to post Share on other sites
Recidivist 626 Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 Anything is possible at sea, but think about this re-righting. To begin with we know she went turtle. Ok, so the rig waving around in the water will eventually fatigue the stays or chainplates and the whole lot will separate. But then you need a monstrous breaking wave that can tumble a very stable, flat raft (with a ballasted pod underneath), and it has to do just that. And after tumbling, the boat ends up in the less stable of two possible outcomes. Not impossible - but in addition, that all has to happen in the first couple of weeks because there's no fouling on the cabin top. And then nature settles down again. Not impossible, but pretty bloody unlikely! If a 40' Simpson cat stayed upright with mast intact in that storm between NZ and Raratonga (?) - presumably because she could skid down the faces of the waves without tripping, the conditions required to re-right a bigger boat, in a more stable attitude and awash with water, would have been soooo bad that I think we'd have heard about it. But I haven't got any better theory so I'll give up now. Link to post Share on other sites
Jacko_Aus 0 Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 I was in the race, but a few miles to the North when it flipped so I cant catagorically say that she went upside down or only halfway... none of the boats that took rhumbline options in that race saw or heard anything about it until back at the dock.... absolutely nada over the Radio and a fair way away to see with 25+ knots, a full kite, a heady to get up, a fairly confused swell with a nice windblown chop, and a GPS to watch for the turnaround.... but on the flipping back upright theories: Say that the rig pulled out on one side only... so full main and Kite still up on a fairly heavy mast section hanging from at least one shroud and maybe forestay/backstay and whatever sheets, but sitting fairly deep in the water and then the boat is hit by a large breaking wave..... Is that enough of a sea anchor to help flip it??? Link to post Share on other sites
PhilipNZ 95 Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 I made my suggestion somewhat tongue in cheek. There are winches and solar panels clearly visible however the forward seagull striker is gone and as it is not attached to the rig would hardly "just fall off". Also we will have to assume that the miraculous self-righting wave was quite close inshore as there is no growth on the cabin top suggesting the boat spent very little time upside down. Quite amazing really Link to post Share on other sites
Teaky 144 Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 Dismasted, then fishermen took off anything they could easily remove once the weather had settled and the crew was off. Why is there any debate? Who suggested the boat turned over in the first place? Link to post Share on other sites
Jem 0 Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 Say that the rig pulled out on one side only... so full main and Kite still up on a fairly heavy mast section hanging from at least one shroud and maybe forestay/backstay and whatever sheets, but sitting fairly deep in the water and then the boat is hit by a large breaking wave..... Is that enough of a sea anchor to help flip it??? If she went over, that's my vote too J Link to post Share on other sites
Jacko_Aus 0 Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 Dismasted, then fishermen took off anything they could easily remove once the weather had settled and the crew was off. Why is there any debate? Who suggested the boat turned over in the first place? The people that were racing against it when it turned over.... pillock Link to post Share on other sites
PhilipNZ 95 Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 Since several are interested here are the high res pics as i originally received them. She looks pretty intact and salvagable http://www.oceans33.co.nz/subcat1.JPG http://www.oceans33.co.nz/subcat2.JPG http://www.oceans33.co.nz/subcat3.JPG http://www.oceans33.co.nz/subcat4.JPG Link to post Share on other sites
Eventually 2 Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 Winch handles still locked in on port side. Third pic. Still say it flipped...wiped its rig..and re-flipped. Jackos theory sounds the goods. The news report I read ...which I can't yet find...said the crew were rescued from the upturned boat. The conditions to have waves that big since the race have been repeated often. The EAC well offshore from Sydney has featured a facking huge eddy for almost the last 4 months. Its still a long way to 173 miles from Norfolk. Link to post Share on other sites
Kestrahl 6 Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 I find it hard to beleive it reflipped.. But its not impossible just extremely unlikely.. Link to post Share on other sites
Bluey 0 Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 Evo' check out Channel 9 right now, reviewing the WallyPower. Cool. 7 Teaks! Link to post Share on other sites
wraith 0 Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 Evo' check out Channel 9 right now, reviewing the WallyPower. Cool. Or - as my youngest asked "Daddy, could we have one of those instead of Wraith?" I told him if we could have one, then Wraith wouldnt pay the fuel bill.... Link to post Share on other sites
nroose 220 Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 The cat turned up in Norfolk waters last week and has been salvaged by localshttp://www.crew.org.nz/page/804/mystery.html Hmm. The link back to here on that page is broken (looks like they had "http://" twice. Took me to Microsoft, even though I am using Firefox on a Mac, accessing the internet through Comcast. Link to post Share on other sites
Gorn FRANTIC!! 411 Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 shit...she doesnt look all that bad after being partially submerged for the last 4-5 months or so, even looks like it might b salvageable and able to sail again, any1 else got more info about whats going to become of her? Link to post Share on other sites
Rajinder 1 Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 Wow. If that had flipped and then rerighted you have to be impressed with the engineering and build. The energy to re turn a flipped multi... I presume reasonably full of water, must be outta sight. Link to post Share on other sites
Lease 0 Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 A breaking wave tends to have a bit of energy. The rig-with-sails-attached dragging from windward that is still attached to the leeward side of the boat, while a wave that has passed the rig breaks over the windward side of the boat? Why not? And who's to say that the boat was full of water at the time? If it did a clean flip then it is likely that it was floating very high in the water, with very little water in the hulls. It isn't clear from the salvage photos, but maybe the rig (on which the theory depends) punched a hole in one side that caused it to fill. That would make the re-right even more possible. Maybe the hulls filled only progressively by waves after it was righted? Mind you, the notion of scuttling a modern cuising cat to get at the insurance would deserve inclusion in any pantheon of blonde jokes. Link to post Share on other sites
Turkey Slapper 55 Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 Some lucky local has a bloody good party barge now. Link to post Share on other sites
TPG 177 Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 Stanchions are knocked down on the port side. She was dismasted. Link to post Share on other sites
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