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LS 32 v. R33 v. Seacart


abktoo

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Okay, the front page had me wondering today. If you had the money, would you buy the Lightspeed, the reynolds, or the seacart.... and why. My vote is for the lightspeed. Seems more comfy than the seacart. The reynolds has the whole flipping thing going on. I think the lightspeed is better designed. what do you think?

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I think the lightspeed is better designed. what do you think?

 

Morrelli and Melvin co-designed the R33.

Van Peteghem Lauriot Prévost is credited with the LS32 design.

 

Both are very highly regarded and well accomplished designer firms.

 

In my opinion, all three of these multihulls are quite attractive.

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I'm not knocking M and M.

Which multi is better though?

pros cons?

Oh, well then....

 

What you're really about is starting a religous argument over the pros and cons of cats over tris.....

 

plenty of that already mate....

 

search button is the jobbie you'll be wanting for answers to that little chestnut....

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i've said this before and i will say it again:

 

r33 is like a mac26 compared to lightspeed or seacart - the engineering, build, and materials of both the seacart and lightspeed is absolutely top-drawer - an order of magnitude more development went into either of these than the r33.

 

that being said, the r33 sure can rip around.

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I have only sailed on one of the three (guess which click). It opened my eyes. It is addicting like heroin. The question isn't which one, but rather why isn't there a "Sport Multi Division" racing around? These things are so much more fun to sail than even the fastest sport boats around in the NE. They are MUCH faster, more comfortable, and require less crew. On your normal summer racing day when a sea breeze fills in around 12 knots and a Melges 32 is plodding along at 8 or 9 knots with 8 people on the rail these boats will be doing 18 with 3 or 4 crew sitting legs in on a nice bench with a seat back. Want to go away? The these multis will get you from Western Long Island Sound to Block Island over a hundred miles away in time for sunset drinks! (just get a resrvation at a B&B and your all set) Want to day sail with friends? It seats 8 or 9 people comfortably and the sail controls are very well laid out. Nobody will be sitting on a cleat or winch. I can't understand why a class like the J/109 is growing so fast when this option exists. They must be sailed to be apprciated. If you get the chance, take it. You will not be sorry.

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dude, thats what i was thinking too. Does it have the potential (price tag) to get a strong class together, like the r33 has on the west coast? Do you think that the ls32 will be the r33 of the east coast???

The seacart looks interesting, but i think it seems a lot less ocean capable than the ls32. I know m and m are amazing, I want to work for them one day, but i think that the designers of the ls32 used more formula multi hull principles. I think the ls32 is more like a mini orange than a big hobie, and i think the opposite is true for the reynolds. I could be wrong though, if I am blasttttttt away.

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are there currently any seacarts in the states?

 

With cash no object I would go for seacart/l32 but:

 

"Sail away Package is now available for an unheard price of $124,950!" from the R33 site makes that pretty attractive compared to the $200+ price tags of the other two.

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Mate, the SeaCart30 has proven itself in round UK and various Baltic offshore races. It has also delivered in some rough seas - I've sailed in Sweden and it isn't all "plain sailing".

 

SC30 all the way. Lightspeed is pure porno but unlikely to be offshore material. Reynolds is fast but could you leave anyone on the helm that wasn't fully offshore-multi experienced? I know I wouldn't sleep a wink.

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kiwis have a pretty cool 8.5m multi fleet that do distance races like coastal classic - dramatically cheaper price point - not everyone can afford even the budget reynolds price.

 

also big fan of the firefly 850 cats they've got in phuket:

 

firefly01.jpg

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Mate, the SeaCart30 has proven itself in round UK and various Baltic offshore races. It has also delivered in some rough seas - I've sailed in Sweden and it isn't all "plain sailing".

 

SC30 all the way. Lightspeed is pure porno but unlikely to be offshore material. Reynolds is fast but could you leave anyone on the helm that wasn't fully offshore-multi experienced? I know I wouldn't sleep a wink.

 

yo dude, it just did the lauderdale key west race, sure its not too too far but still, it beat the original record, although stars and stripes trounced the old record. i think it seems pretty offshore capable to me. They also didnt have any major problems. If you recall, in the round UK race, they had to stop.

what do you think will be more comfy offshore?

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Mate, the SeaCart30 has proven itself in round UK and various Baltic offshore races. It has also delivered in some rough seas - I've sailed in Sweden and it isn't all "plain sailing".

 

SC30 all the way. Lightspeed is pure porno but unlikely to be offshore material. Reynolds is fast but could you leave anyone on the helm that wasn't fully offshore-multi experienced? I know I wouldn't sleep a wink.

 

 

I was not saying I thought the R33 was a better boat - just adding the value or entry into the market perspective. If I could pursuade my wife that we should spend $200K + on a seacart or L32 (I would prob choose seacart too) I would but my reality is that I could trade my current boat for one of these, the only one in my range would be the R33 and I would imagine I would be pretty happy with it. (provided I was not in the vicinity of L32/seacarts while sailing!)

 

Will definitely investigate the 8.5s mentioned though.

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So we need to get a sport offshore multi division in the USA with the LS32, Seacart 30, Reynolds 33 (in both 14' and 17.5' beam would be nice). Lets not forget someothers like the F31 OD, Firebird, Firefly, RC30 (not sure if it counts as there is no interior). Racing will never be the same again! That's a good thing B) Criteria should be what? Maybe a rating of of -30 or below, and some kind of interior. Maybe set max LOA to 35'. This could be fun!

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Too true, the Seacart did have to stop but the boat was broken in some crazy conditions - 40 knot winds and big, vicious seas. Popped a bulkhead if my memory serves me correctly. The Lightspeed looks awesome and true it has done an offshore race but as a matter of personal preference I choose trimarans over catamarans for offshore sailing. I've sailed cat's and tri's offshore and both are equally uncomfortable! Violent motion combined with rapid acceleration/deceleration - quick as hell though. Would be very interesting to put the two up against each other however (reckon the SeaCart might just snatch it).

 

These new, small ultralight Multi's are the shit, full stop.

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Word is that they're organising an international multihull regatta coinsiding with Cowes week in August, potentially seeing the LS32, SC30's, Firebirds, Raider's... all together. Should be interesting to see how they all compare on the same race track!

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Too true, the Seacart did have to stop but the boat was broken in some crazy conditions - 40 knot winds and big, vicious seas. Popped a bulkhead if my memory serves me correctly.

Correct. This type of failure had however been seen before on the Seacart and Marstrøm had already modified all existing boats - except the Pete Goss/Paul Larsen boat :ph34r:

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Okay, the front page had me wondering today. If you had the money, would you buy the Lightspeed, the reynolds, or the seacart.... and why. My vote is for the lightspeed. Seems more comfy than the seacart. The reynolds has the whole flipping thing going on. I think the lightspeed is better designed. what do you think?

 

I've sailed on the LS32 and the thing that impressed me the most was the high freeboard, so you are DRY while sailing it. For comparison I was on a F31R in 25knts and 6ft seas and it was WET. The bow of a tri in big seas you better be wearing a drysuit and sitting on the ama's you are only 12" above the water, so a wave will soak you upwind or down even at the back of the boat.

 

Plus the F31R felt like at any moment I could go stepping off the boat into the water, with nothing to stop me. The LS32 feels like you are in the cockpit - a very large cockpit and all the sailhandling work is done on a much bigger net are than the tri, so it feels safer. The LS32 seat backs are nice and high, the ream beam is nice and high too, so I'd pick the LS32 for open ocean sailing over the tri's.

 

I'll take the LS32 anyday over the tri's (F31R or Seacart) but both are sweet and beat the monohull sport boats hands down.

 

The R33 is just plain ugly and the narrow beam is just plain stupid, I wouldnt buy it at any price.

 

Bill

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Second the guy who said the F31 is wet. Sailed mine in some rough conditions this winter, and the wet suit was a godsend. Issue was visibility-- I wear glasses, and it was really hard to see at times. We were probably doing 10 knots (guess) upwind in short steep seas, winds in high 20, low 30-- two reefs in main, and heavy weather jib. Saw tip of the bow pole in the bow in the water a couple of times. and there was a lot of spray off the folding struts.

 

I have been thinking about some kind of flip up visor deal to keep water out of my eyes. Would sure look dorky, pretentious, or both.

 

Personally, I wouldn't want any multi (excluding beach cats) which is intended to sail on a single hull routinely. Just too close to the edge for my comfort. In my ideal world, I woudl have a tri about the size of the F31, without the compromiaes for folding, but with greater freeboard and spray control.

 

Vinc.

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>

>Morrelli and Melvin co-designed the R33.

>

 

>

>From the R33 website:

>Morrelli & Melvin will assist in the design of the production tooling, parts and rig.

>

 

Morrelli & Melvin "assisted" with all the hydrostatics.

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You have to believe that if M&M was working with a bigger price range they could accomplish a better 33' trimaran. Look what they've done with the a class boats and obviously stars and stripes. I think the fact that there is a good fleet of R33s is a testament that they are an alright boat.

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You have to believe that if M&M was working with a bigger price range they could accomplish a better 33' trimaran. Look what they've done with the a class boats and obviously stars and stripes. I think the fact that there is a good fleet of R33s is a testament that they are an alright boat.

 

yeah, there is also a good fleet of mac26s around, so ... :P

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kiwis have a pretty cool 8.5m multi fleet that do distance races like coastal classic - dramatically cheaper price point - not everyone can afford even the budget reynolds price.

 

also big fan of the firefly 850 cats they've got in phuket:

 

firefly01.jpg

 

 

Thanks for bringing those up - (sorry, know its not quite in line with the thread) - but this looks like a great budget entry to this kind of performance:

 

http://www.latitude8yachts.com/news.html

 

http://www.latitude8yachts.com/news.html

 

Fully loaded with ALL the options, even with the worthless dollar right now works out to less than $75K before shipping.

 

Without too much investigation, sail area/displacement is marginally more than the R33 and there have been a fair number built.

 

I dont know anything other than anecdotal info on performance but bang for buck?!

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Re: Wet

 

Catamarans seem wetter boats to me. Sitting on the windward hull, the water rides up and hits the crew. If you can fly a hull all the time, a cat can be very dry. But you won't be able to do that most of the time.

 

Trimarans, assuming you are out on the windward ama, seem dryer to me. True, the flat bottom of an F-boat puts spray out horizontally to windward, and some of that will come through the tramp, but less than what comes right up the windward side of a cat.

 

Downwind, an F-boat gets very wet because the water hits the hinging mechanism. A cat tends to be much drier off the wind if you are on the windward side.

 

Neither is a dry boat, but at 10 plus knots upwind, no sailboat is a dry boat. It takes a really, really big monohull to go upwind with a 30 foot multihull, and they still are not all that dry.

 

You are forgetting the difference in freeboard. The LS32 sits up off the water a fair amount (it feels like more than 2.5 feet), plus the backrest plus the cabin hatchway keeps the water on the outside of the hull and provides a lot of spray protection. So, the effective freeboard is probably 3ft (something like that). On a F31r you are barely out fo the water, (like 10 inches), plus it doesnt have any backrest, so there's nothing to stop spray and waves.

 

Bill

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Personally, I wouldn't want any multi (excluding beach cats) which is intended to sail on a single hull routinely. Just too close to the edge for my comfort. In my ideal world, I woudl have a tri about the size of the F31, without the compromiaes for folding, but with greater freeboard and spray control.

 

Vinc.

 

 

ls32 flies 1 of 2 hulls - which looks positively civilized compared to pictures of seacart on just the leeward ama and the windward ama about 15 feet in the air - of course if you're sitting way up there - you would be good and out of the spray, right?

 

125_bn_tmb2.jpg

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I am drooling on my keyboard. These boats are so cool....

 

Can anyone with first-hand experience tell me if sailing one of these rocketships single/short-handed requires balls of steel over 12 knots? I've read the R33 threads so there's no need to go there.

 

If I can go fast without white knuckles, lean on a backrest and control the strings without jumping around like an organ grinder's monkey, one of these boats is my dream come true.

 

Do you need extensive multi-hull experience to sail one of these boats safely and competitively?

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I can tell you sailing the LS32 is very comfortable dry and secure. Bill is correct that the high freeboard, seat backs, and lack of struts or dolphin strikers all add to a dry cockpit in most conditions. I like the cat better because you are always inside the cockpit and very secure. You are never climbing in and out of the boat and across amas or akas. It is almost like a big play pen. Check out the photos at the bottom of this review and you see what I mean.

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Guest Prismatic
You have to believe that if M&M was working with a bigger price range they could accomplish a better 33' trimaran. Look what they've done with the a class boats and obviously stars and stripes. I think the fact that there is a good fleet of R33s is a testament that they are an alright boat.

 

 

Kinky, you are right M&M did design the fastest boat in the race. Although I don’t think anyone would claim that Stars and Stripes was designed for ocean racing. What the guys on S&S did is REALLY respectable.

 

Using the R33 to compare M&M to other designers does not really make sense because the other designs (Seacart and LS32) are VERY different boats. If you want to analyze the abilities of M&M, then look at there performance against other designers within box rules. The M&M Nacra A2 and the Nacra Infusion F18 have become the dominate boats in both of those classes. I just cannot wait to see what M&M does if (when) they get a chance to design another maxi cat.

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I am drooling on my keyboard. These boats are so cool....

 

Can anyone with first-hand experience tell me if sailing one of these rocketships single/short-handed requires balls of steel over 12 knots? I've read the R33 threads so there's no need to go there.

 

If I can go fast without white knuckles, lean on a backrest and control the strings without jumping around like an organ grinder's monkey, one of these boats is my dream come true.

 

Do you need extensive multi-hull experience to sail one of these boats safely and competitively?

 

I sail the R33 singlehanded quite often. Two trips back from Ensenada alone, and a good number of coastal trips and Catalina overnights. Less the "balls of steel", I simply exercise some common sense with the sailarea employed.

 

In 12knots of wind, going to weather with a double reef'd main is comfortable; with 5 to 10knots of wind, a single reef is perfect. The forward sails are furled, so pulling them out and putting them away offwind is easy. Reefing the main is simple enough when executed early in that the boat will stay in irons quite nicely. Underway, I have learned to brace the tiller against the back-rest to keep the boat sailing on course for a quick run to the ice-chest below.

 

John Papa

R33 CAT11

SailFast.us

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Kinky, you are right M&M did design the fastest boat in the race. Although I don’t think anyone would claim that Stars and Stripes was designed for ocean racing. What the guys on S&S did is REALLY respectable.

 

Using the R33 to compare M&M to other designers does not really make sense because the other designs (Seacart and LS32) are VERY different boats. If you want to analyze the abilities of M&M, then look at there performance against other designers within box rules. The M&M Nacra A2 and the Nacra Infusion F18 have become the dominate boats in both of those classes. I just cannot wait to see what M&M does if (when) they get a chance to design another maxi cat.

 

dude i know. I think that m&m is a great firm. I'm not doubting their abilities. I think that they turned out a boat that can be compared to these other designs despite finicial limitations placed upon them in the brief is a great accomplishment. I think they could probably design a faster cat for around $200,000 sure.

 

If i had the money it would be a really difficult choice.

 

they also get mad props for designing a boat that was meant to sail in light winds that could stand up to the riggors of the atlantic.

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I can't understand why a class like the J/109 is growing so fast when this option exists. They must be sailed to be apprciated. If you get the chance, take it. You will not be sorry.

 

A J109 has a potty with a door, and it's a lot easier to find a parking space for.

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sweet pic papa, If I end up at USC next year, what are the chances of crewing?

 

Anytime, I have a new slip in Marina Del Rey...

Its a reach/reach to Catalina and back (as opposed to the old upwind/downwind routine from Newport and Long Beach).

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Using the R33 to compare M&M to other designers does not really make sense because the other designs (Seacart and LS32) are VERY different boats.

Using the R33 to compare M&M to other designers does not really make sense because they didn't design the R33. The co-designed it, which might (or might not) be very different from 'designing it'.

 

From the R33 website: Morrelli & Melvin will assist in the design of the production tooling, parts and rig.

From papa: Morrelli & Melvin "assisted" with all the hydrostatics.

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If I have understood correctly, SC30 is a A Thompson Design.

 

Anyway, by just comparing the figures Seacart is the most light weight one and it is a trimaran. LS32 is a bit heavier and reynolds a lot heavier ( in percentages ) Also The sail area / Weight turns into SC 30's favor.

 

So Overall SC30 should be the fastest upwind, I would presume that downwind sc and LS are on the same ballfield as cat can generally be pshed harder than Trimaran. Yes, cat is harder to drive, but if you really got it, the cat is also faster.

 

For offshoring a Cat is a bit difficult on this size, as you sleep in the hulls. Trimaran has the weight more centered as all the crew stuff lays in the main hull. I would suspect that for long offshore races the trimaran is less exhausting for the crew. Also LS has the escape hatches accessible. A feature i dont remember seeing on SC.

 

Anyway: this comparison doesnt make the R33 Slow or a poor sailor. These other boats are just a little more high tech and it clearly shows on the price. LS or SC? For me LS as I prefer cat over a trimaran.

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Anyone sail the firefly before??

 

G'day,

 

I sailed the original in a Brisbane Gladstone a few years ago. Finished 4th across the line. We were the smallest boat in the fleet (25+ bopats, I can't remember). All sorts of weather including a bit of a storm during which we sailed bareheaded for a while. Beautiful boat, very easy to handle and very cheap, especially if you build it yourself. Mark Pescott designed it, and is a very laid back, knowledgable designer and builder. Well worth a call if you are interested.

 

Ross Blair is his agent in Aus and also has a Firefly. Beats all the local similar size boats, apparently.

regards,

 

Rob

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Kinky, you are right M&M did design the fastest boat in the race. Although I don’t think anyone would claim that Stars and Stripes was designed for ocean racing. What the guys on S&S did is REALLY respectable.

 

Using the R33 to compare M&M to other designers does not really make sense because the other designs (Seacart and LS32) are VERY different boats. If you want to analyze the abilities of M&M, then look at there performance against other designers within box rules. The M&M Nacra A2 and the Nacra Infusion F18 have become the dominate boats in both of those classes. I just cannot wait to see what M&M does if (when) they get a chance to design another maxi cat.

 

The Nacra F2 dominates the A Class? When? I thoiugh Gashby ((2004, 2005, 2007 world champ) sails Flyers.

 

The Infusion dominates the F18s? When? I thought the last few worlds went to Tigers and Capricorns?

 

Kinky, you are right M&M did design the fastest boat in the race. Although I don’t think anyone would claim that Stars and Stripes was designed for ocean racing. What the guys on S&S did is REALLY respectable.

 

Using the R33 to compare M&M to other designers does not really make sense because the other designs (Seacart and LS32) are VERY different boats. If you want to analyze the abilities of M&M, then look at there performance against other designers within box rules. The M&M Nacra A2 and the Nacra Infusion F18 have become the dominate boats in both of those classes. I just cannot wait to see what M&M does if (when) they get a chance to design another maxi cat.

 

The Nacra F2 dominates the A Class? When? I thoiugh Gashby ((2004, 2005, 2007 world champ) sails Flyers.

 

The Infusion dominates the F18s? When? I thought the last few worlds went to Tigers and Capricorns?

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Think they rank R33, LS, SC on cost alone.

 

R33 was the only one doing OD racing but that is west coast US only.

 

So for me, if I was west coast its the R33. But I'm not, so no go. I'll fill that fix on OPB. Would like to see LS do so well that they get to OD status on east coast but doubt it happens at that price. SC? Cool boat but mucho $ and no chance for OD. I would get a Farrier/Corsair if I wanted a tri. Wish someone would revive Stiletto for affordable fun and reasonably fast OD multi racing. But that's not what most multi folks seem to want... faster, faster, faster. Not that there is anything wrong with that. :)

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The Nacra F2 dominates the A Class? When? I thoiugh Gashby ((2004, 2005, 2007 world champ) sails Flyers.

 

Melvin won the 2005 worlds in an a2, asby won 2006 in a flyer and 2007 worlds are in florida in november.....

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Wish someone would revive Stiletto for affordable fun and reasonably fast OD multi racing.

 

According to Peter - a Stilleto today could cost over 100K. I've raced on a modified Stilletto in the in 25 knot winds and a short chop - it's not something that inpires confidence - It's hard to beat a F28R for the money.

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seems as if any reasonably insane bloke would love to sail any of the 3. I've only had the pleasure of the r33 meself but the other 2 look mighty tasty. Anything that could be done to inspire a large and feisty fleet of multis in the u.s. would be lovely indeed. How cool would it be to find the limits of these boats under a variety of conditions with some good drivers and crews? One point of interest is that the Reynolds can be built to any width, whilst the other 2 appear to be set in carbon. A busy little bee told me that Randy Reynolds is going to build himself an all carbon 33 with 3 foot transom extensions and probably about 18 feet wide. Of course, being the freak that he is, seems likely (and rumoured true) that the stick will be 60 feet of stiff and lusty carbon. Obviously, the average schmoe isn't going to be driving this particular beast, but Randy has a stable full of hyper-qualified drivers like Pete Melvin and Howie Hamlin who regularly play on the 33's, so if he ever gets tired (not likely) he can pass the helm off and keep the firehose dialed to "full-on". One question though, are the self-appointed gatekeepers of the sea (ORCA) going to allow multihull development on the west coast? Pictures of that seacart happily flying it's main hull might send them scurrying for the "banned" button. I think they have allowed a Firefly into the mix, though I've heard it tends to be a bit of a pitchpole machine. I recall a series of photos from a couple years back of one being driven down the hole under spin, believe it was off the coast of some British isle. If someone would give me the keys to one I'd be more than happy to take it out for a quick spin around the block...

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I think they have allowed a Firefly into the mix, though I've heard it tends to be a bit of a pitchpole machine. I recall a series of photos from a couple years back of one being driven down the hole under spin, believe it was off the coast of some British isle. If someone would give me the keys to one I'd be more than happy to take it out for a quick spin around the block...

 

Firebird?

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There are two other tri's available in europe-- the Seaon and the Dragonfly. With the euro being where it is now, there is no paractical way those baots ever real world for the US-- and neither is as racy as the three boats under discussion

 

I think the Seaon in particular is a great combination of high tech (all carbon prepreg) and the practical (swing wing folding to use regular marina slip, roomy interior because of float mounted foils, self tacking jib.) But as far as you can tell from the web, they have only delivered one of the carbon boats!).

 

I think they ought to ship the molds to the US, figure out how to container ship, and and export to the world.

 

Vince.

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as i understand it:

 

firebird - english thing around 26'

firefly - aussie thing around 26'

 

similar, but different?

 

Firefly - Aussie/Thai 28ft relatively low tech (cedar core, ali tubes/mast), light weight ~ $70K with all the bits (according to their website)

 

Firebird - http://www.firebirdcat.com/ - USA built, 26ft cat, higher tech, higher price.

 

 

The ones that flipped in the uk were firebirds and they also went on to develop a self righting kit - which you can buy according to the site.

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my dad would make fun of me for having an extra hull, but I really like the sea cart, thus its top of the heap ranking from me. the LS is a bad ass lookin machine, but the reynolds price and local OD give it the edge in my part of the world. fun topic. a race between all these types would be great!

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Right -- the windward ama on a tri is WAY up in the air. You generally stay dry out there.

If you stay on the center hull for some reason, expect water.

 

Performance wise, catamarans and trimarans have different performance envelopes.

Sometimes a cat is faster, sometimes a tri is faster.

 

One big and one small hull is faster than two same sized hulls, due to a large difference in wetted surface.

Therefore, a tri is usually faster that a cat until the cat flys a hull. Amazing, but even a round bottom

cat is slower in the light stuff than a v-bottom ama and a flat bottom center hull, if the sail area and

weight are about the same. Light air goes to the tri.

 

One hull in the water is fastest, especially in heavy seas. Therefore, a cat that is

flying a hull beats a tri that is dragging two. medium air goes to the cat.

Stability is faster than less stability. A trimaran is much wider than a cat, so once the tri is

flying both hulls, its much higer stability again wins. Heavy air favors the tri.

 

When its gusty, or seas are big, and control is an issue, then again there is a difference.

On many tris with rudders on the center hull, steering can get dicy, leading to wipe-outs

(read about the Cherokee Monkey flip on another thread). On a cat, the leeward rudder

gets pressed in many conditions, so maybe better. However, on a cat, as soon as the

windward hull is out of the water (e.g., you are faster than a tri), the stability is dropping

with every inch of windward hull height above the water: stability starts dropping at very

low angles of heel. This means its a bit tougher to stay sailing at max performance in

gusts or in seas. You need to back off some, and that means you might be giving away some

to that tri. A tri also reaches max stability when the center hull lifts. However, you always

have MUCH more rotational inertia, which means the roll rate is more sedate, easier to

respond to. Also, the angle of heel is already about 20 degrees, so the efficiency of the

rig starts to drop along with the reduction in stability, again giving a much easier "max performance bucket"

so its way easier to keep the boat at max power.

 

Weight and cost is an interesting thing too. While two hulls should be lighter and

cheaper than three, its interesting that you won't find much support for the theory.

You need all the strength to hold up the rig, and with a tri its easy to provide with

the center hull. You need to do the same thing with much smaller tubes and dolphin

strikers etc on a cat, but you lose big by having to provide the same strength with

smaller structural members.

 

In the end... I still can't decide! All three are pretty damn cool.

 

The Seacart has its rudders mounted on the out hulls ;)

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Kinky, you are right M&M did design the fastest boat in the race. Although I don’t think anyone would claim that Stars and Stripes was designed for ocean racing. What the guys on S&S did is REALLY respectable.

 

M&M designed S&S?

 

In my book S&S was designed by a rather large team including multihull expertise from France (labeled Team Lafayette)

and the UK. There were C-cat experts from the US east coast present too. French F40 cats were used to try out ideas on.

 

/Martin

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Firefly - Aussie/Thai 28ft relatively low tech (cedar core, ali tubes/mast), light weight ~ $70K with all the bits (according to their website)

 

Firebird - http://www.firebirdcat.com/ - USA built, 26ft cat, higher tech, higher price.

The ones that flipped in the uk were firebirds and they also went on to develop a self righting kit - which you can buy according to the site.

 

The Firebird is probably still the hottest 8m sportboat around despite being 20 years old.

 

The Firefly is not all new either and is much bigger compared to the Firebird than the 0.5 m length difference indicates. Its designer is wellknown and respected down-under as far as I know.

 

Another alternative from Oz is the Raider 302 by Tony Grainger:

http://www.graingerdesigns.com.au/photogal...y_raider302.htm

There are just a few of them since setting up production has been a bumpy ride. There is one in the UK (for sale) that has done very well while racing Farriers, Dragnflies, Firebirds etc. It even beat the Seacart 30 once but that might have been down to luck...

Rumours have it that Corsair may start producing the Raider 302--could be a pretty good alternative for those of us who can't afford autoclaved carbon boats.

 

Adopting (or adapting) the Kiwi 8.5 m class is another pretty good alternative. There are several designs to choose from. At the top of the following web page you find photos of one example:

http://www.tcdesign.co.nz/current.htm

 

/Martin

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them is some sweet items indeed. now here's another Q: could anyone build and profit from a stripped out, 24 X !2' catamaran that would be ocean capable and launch rampable and sell new for under 50k u.s? that would be my particular dream ride, but according to industry people you just can't make money in that niche. I woulda thought you could sell a big ole shitpile of em, get a one design fleet, keep it super simple, stripped-out, 3 sails, and as cheap as possible. Everybody that ever owned a beachcat would want one, right? Please somebody, make my dream a reality and build a couple hundred of these, I will volunteer as crash-test-dummy, the munt is ready to put it all in play for this dream! I think a couple of those aussie or n.z. boats would scale down real nice to 24 feet, no? please...

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dude, I've been thinking the same thing

a cheap 6.5 multi hull for transatlanic\pacific racing

kinda like a mini650 but with extra hulls and more speed.

I think that way people would be able to afford to start a campaign and the sucessful ones move up into a bigger cat or tri, like a classe 40 and then move into the big guys. I want to see some around the world stuff.

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dude, I've been thinking the same thing

a cheap 6.5 multi hull for transatlanic\pacific racing

kinda like a mini650 but with extra hulls and more speed.

I think that way people would be able to afford to start a campaign and the sucessful ones move up into a bigger cat or tri, like a classe 40 and then move into the big guys. I want to see some around the world stuff.

So you're looking for this: http://www.exploder.info/eng/content/view/19/125/

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them is some sweet items indeed. now here's another Q: could anyone build and profit from a stripped out, 24 X !2' catamaran that would be ocean capable and launch rampable and sell new for under 50k u.s? that would be my particular dream ride, but according to industry people you just can't make money in that niche. I woulda thought you could sell a big ole shitpile of em, get a one design fleet, keep it super simple, stripped-out, 3 sails, and as cheap as possible. Everybody that ever owned a beachcat would want one, right? Please somebody, make my dream a reality and build a couple hundred of these, I will volunteer as crash-test-dummy, the munt is ready to put it all in play for this dream! I think a couple of those aussie or n.z. boats would scale down real nice to 24 feet, no? please...

Richard Woods http://www.sailingcatamarans.com/ designed such a cat some 20 years ago. It's called Strider and was produced in the UK for several years. Some more potential candidates can be found through http://hem.bredband.net/b262106/deslinks.html

 

Richard Woods also dreamt up the Micro Multihull Class back in 1983 or so to adress the market you are in. Many boats were designed to that class rule. My boat is one of them http://hem.bredband.net/b262106/index.html

 

/Martin

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Another alternative from Oz is the Raider 302 by Tony Grainger:

http://www.graingerdesigns.com.au/photogal...y_raider302.htm

There are just a few of them since setting up production has been a bumpy ride. There is one in the UK (for sale) that has done very well while racing Farriers, Dragnflies, Firebirds etc. It even beat the Seacart 30 once but that might have been down to luck...

 

/Martin

 

If you're looking for a great all rounder, you can't beat the Raider 302. It's heavy in comparison to the lightspeed and Seacart, but costs half the price and would kick both boats asses in a decent breeze. We've won 2 Cowes weeks and 2 UK Nationals on a Raider and done about 5000 miles this year on the boat and it just gets better.The Seacart and Lightspeed are definitely quicker in the light stuff, but who wants to go sailing in the light stuff? Someone in the forum said that " A Raider beat a Seacart once and might have got lucky". The truth is a Seacart beat a Raider once, in light airs, I think the current score is 35-1in favour of the Raider.

 

Weight is only one factor in a boat and for all the "hey dude crap" spouted so far, I would be interested to see the said dudes in a blow offshore in any of these boats.

 

The multihull class at Skandia Cowes week is an unofficial "world Championship" for these types of boats, so lets get it on and bring your boats to the UK and we'll see whats the best boat available over 14 races and a range of winds.

 

Ben Goodland

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Someone in the forum said that " A Raider beat a Seacart once and might have got lucky". The truth is a Seacart beat a Raider once, in light airs, I think the current score is 35-1in favour of the Raider.

 

Are you guys talking about elapsed time or corrected time victories?

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I am drooling on my keyboard. These boats are so cool....

 

Can anyone with first-hand experience tell me if sailing one of these rocketships single/short-handed requires balls of steel over 12 knots? I've read the R33 threads so there's no need to go there.

 

If I can go fast without white knuckles, lean on a backrest and control the strings without jumping around like an organ grinder's monkey, one of these boats is my dream come true.

 

Do you need extensive multi-hull experience to sail one of these boats safely and competitively?

 

 

SeaCart vs Reynolds 33

The SeaCart and the Reynolds 33 are quite similar in performance, that is, they rate approximatly the same. The SC (1060kg) has a Texel Rating of 1.23(time-on-time) and the R33 Turbo (Cat Attack, weight 1300kg) has a Texel rating of 1.27(time-on-time) which theoretically states the the R33 is a somewhat faster boat by around 2 minutes/hour.

 

 

Having only comparative information from one race, it seems that the SC has an advantage when winds are less the 4 m/s while the R33 gains the upper hand from 4 to 8 m/s. This could be due to the SC having a superior wardrobe for the light stuff. Above 8 m/s I do not know which one performs better.

 

It takes more skill to sail the R33 to its potential than the SC and a good crew is a must in order to sail on the "bleeding edge", but that is what we all try to do and sometimes we screw up. That is part of sailing these boats beyond their limits. In a multihull you then may need some help getting back.

The R33 is far more forgiving than for example a Formula 28, which is quite brutal and not a boat for shorthanded sailing.

 

Carbon vs Glass

A carbon boat is not necessary a better boat or faster boat just because it is built in an expensive and strong material. Glass when used properly is quite good. The weight saving you get with carbon is not neccessarily offsetting the higher cost of the boat. The driver and crew are much more important.

 

Stability

The R33, when sailed with a good margin for errors, is stable. That is, if you are cruising; REEF EARLY! I would never go out cruising in anything above 5m/s with full main and jib. Your margins for error is not there. With a good driver you can push harder. On the way back from Ensenada in 2004, Randy and I doublehanded going to windward in 10m/s, a 3-4 foot chop, full main and jib. Randy sailed in jeans and a cotton jacket. He got cold, but not wet! The boat is great and handles very well. BUT it takes a good driver to do that. Family cruising in the same stuff? Two or maybe three reefs in the main and one in the jib. Still doing 8 to 10 knots to windward and having a blast.

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The Rolland 36 (NACRA) hasn't been mentioned. My opinion is that it is Faster than all three, cheaper than all three,

wetter than all three and better looking than all three! Has been through a five year cycle of

development for racing. Pretty sure it would kick ass on the lot in any windspeed. It really comes down to

SPEED for the adrenalin junkie and the 36 has plenty. Three persons to sail it in a high

performance mode. Only time will tell when and if all the boats get together for a scrum.

Going to England to race for most of us would be about as practical as going to the moon but if they show up in

So Cal anything is possible.

2 of 10 is for sale in California. New 36's for sale in Australia.

Glad there is so much interest in any of these kind of boats. I really don't think you would get a good seasoned racer

To wipe a smile off his face after getting back to the dock after sailing any of them.

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If you're looking for a great all rounder, you can't beat the Raider 302. It's heavy in comparison to the lightspeed and Seacart, but costs half the price and would kick both boats asses in a decent breeze. We've won 2 Cowes weeks and 2 UK Nationals on a Raider and done about 5000 miles this year on the boat and it just gets better.The Seacart and Lightspeed are definitely quicker in the light stuff, but who wants to go sailing in the light stuff? Someone in the forum said that " A Raider beat a Seacart once and might have got lucky". The truth is a Seacart beat a Raider once, in light airs, I think the current score is 35-1in favour of the Raider.

 

Weight is only one factor in a boat and for all the "hey dude crap" spouted so far, I would be interested to see the said dudes in a blow offshore in any of these boats.

 

The multihull class at Skandia Cowes week is an unofficial "world Championship" for these types of boats, so lets get it on and bring your boats to the UK and we'll see whats the best boat available over 14 races and a range of winds.

 

Ben Goodland

 

Ben, it's your Raider that's for sale in the UK, right?

I do get race reports from Simon F. (forward my regards to him when you see him next) on a regular basis but I didn't know you raced againts the Seacart several times. It's dangerous to shoot from the hip. One might hit ones foot :-)

 

/Martin

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I must say, that in my paltry experience mr. B BoB is correct, his Rolland was able to beat the R33 under certain conditions and would probably hose most boats in this size range. It is quite beamy which is excellent for heavier air, might be a bit stickier in lighter air, (maybe) and might be a bit lacking in the creature comforts though the sweet sounds of ed's crooning might make up for the cold firehose. It also has those delightful Nacra bows which are so fascinating to watch as they start doing the wave-piercing boogaloo. Like any fast multi they can be driven over, the designer flipped his a few years back. B Bob and Ed did a magnificent job putting on some very subtle bubbles and refining the boat, much to the chagrin of certain F-boat enthusiasts. The bloke from England is probably correct about most of these boats being too powerful for his area, but we don't fancy beef wellington around here either, right, mate? I also find it easier to use a screwdriver to drive screws, a hammer to pound nails, and I'd rather choke a fool than break my fist on his head. If Mr. Reynolds chooses to build his 36X18X60 carbon model I think it will pop some eyeballs around here for sure. And somebody please mass-produce the 24X12 thing. Them mono guys pulled it off with the flying tiger. Perhaps our chinese brethren could build it for us? por favor...

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I must say, that in my paltry experience mr. B BoB is correct, his Rolland was able to beat the R33 under certain conditions and would probably hose most boats in this size range. It is quite beamy which is excellent for heavier air, might be a bit stickier in lighter air, (maybe) and might be a bit lacking in the creature comforts though the sweet sounds of ed's crooning might make up for the cold firehose. It also has those delightful Nacra bows which are so fascinating to watch as they start doing the wave-piercing boogaloo. Like any fast multi they can be driven over, the designer flipped his a few years back. B Bob and Ed did a magnificent job putting on some very subtle bubbles and refining the boat, much to the chagrin of certain F-boat enthusiasts. The bloke from England is probably correct about most of these boats being too powerful for his area, but we don't fancy beef wellington around here either, right, mate? I also find it easier to use a screwdriver to drive screws, a hammer to pound nails, and I'd rather choke a fool than break my fist on his head. If Mr. Reynolds chooses to build his 36X18X60 carbon model I think it will pop some eyeballs around here for sure. And somebody please mass-produce the 24X12 thing. Them mono guys pulled it off with the flying tiger. Perhaps our chinese brethren could build it for us? por favor...

 

 

I dont think you have to look too far right now - http://www.firebirdcat.com/pricing_and_opt...ing_options.htm

 

Daysailor version is smack on $50K before sails and trailer and I am sure its still a rocket ship.

 

Been checking out all the boats mentioned here and right now (because of cost/bang for buck etc) my thoughts are on the Firefly, complete with trailor, sails and everything for $70K+shipping. You could buy your own fleet of three and still have change left over from the price of the lightspeed.

 

(before I get flamed - I am not saying this is a better boat than a lightspeed)

 

The Raider looks nice but about the same price as the R33 by the looks of it and a bit more to manage with regard to de-rigging/packing up on a trailer. (according to the articles I have read anyway)

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M&M designed S&S?

 

In my book S&S was designed by a rather large team including multihull expertise from France (labeled Team Lafayette)

and the UK. There were C-cat experts from the US east coast present too. French F40 cats were used to try out ideas on.

 

/Martin

 

 

S&S was launched before M&M existed. Gino Morelli was one of the designer team on the S&S project, and Pete Melvin was sailing Tornados in the Olympics at the time (1988.) M&M started up in '92.

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them is some sweet items indeed. now here's another Q: could anyone build and profit from a stripped out, 24 X !2' catamaran that would be ocean capable and launch rampable and sell new for under 50k u.s? that would be my particular dream ride, but according to industry people you just can't make money in that niche. I woulda thought you could sell a big ole shitpile of em, get a one design fleet, keep it super simple, stripped-out, 3 sails, and as cheap as possible. Everybody that ever owned a beachcat would want one, right? Please somebody, make my dream a reality and build a couple hundred of these, I will volunteer as crash-test-dummy, the munt is ready to put it all in play for this dream! I think a couple of those aussie or n.z. boats would scale down real nice to 24 feet, no? please...

 

 

Something like: http://www.f-boat.com/pages/trimarans/F-22.html

 

Or: http://multimarine.com/L-7/order/order.html

 

Or: http://www.corsairmarine.com/1CorsairSprint750.htm

 

Or: http://www.ahoy-boats.com/

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2 of those fall under the category of "great ideas" not fully executed as of yet. As for the corsair, seems a bit pricey, though very nice. The little trimaran virus/magnum thing looks like a very fun daysailor for lakes and such but perhaps more of a toy and if that size and range is what you want, why not a used f-24 or, on the other end, an inter 20? Many of us were praying for the f-22 to happen but it seems to still be in the "build it yerself" category. The L7 is very fast and I like it, but again, it requires lots of building and is also "plywood intensive." I'm too dumb and don't like all them heinous chemicals all over me body and in me parts. And I still prefers a cat for my own perverse reasons. So somebody just be a humanitarian and build me a nice little 24X12 fleet, O.K?

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So somebody just be a humanitarian and build me a nice little 24X12 fleet, O.K?

 

This is a topic that we discuss many an evening over a cold Tiger Beer and one that we are steadily working on - but going to take a bit of time and some financial investment (or a few more big projects to turn us a bit of profit) to turn our ideas into reality. But we are working on it...... ;)

 

Given the interest and feedback in this thread and quite a few similar ones - isn't it about time we had our own SA Multi Forum - instead of having to trawl thro all this half boat stuff ......... :blink:

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If you're looking for a great all rounder, you can't beat the Raider 302. It's heavy in comparison to the lightspeed and Seacart, but costs half the price and would kick both boats asses in a decent breeze.

 

Ben, Ben, Ben.

 

then lets hope we get a "decent breeze" - however you defiine it - during cowes week this summer. And bring on the waves as well. I think you may be unpleasantly surprised :-)

 

Don't get me wrong, Raiders are great boats, but an "ass kickin'"???? Well, we will see.

 

Of course, the bottom line with all these boats is that the sailors make a HUGE difference - sail them wrong and they slow down a LOT. And Ben and his team certainly know their boat at this point.

 

Seriously, though -- thanks Ben for organizing the gathering at Cowes Week -- we are really looking forward to it. It will be great to have all these boats racing together finally! And lets hope for a range of conditions.

 

Hunt

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Ben, Ben, Ben.

 

then lets hope we get a "decent breeze" - however you defiine it - during cowes week this summer. And bring on the waves as well. I think you may be unpleasantly surprised :-)

 

Don't get me wrong, Raiders are great boats, but an "ass kickin'"???? Well, we will see.

 

Of course, the bottom line with all these boats is that the sailors make a HUGE difference - sail them wrong and they slow down a LOT. And Ben and his team certainly know their boat at this point.

 

Seriously, though -- thanks Ben for organizing the gathering at Cowes Week -- we are really looking forward to it. It will be great to have all these boats racing together finally! And lets hope for a range of conditions.

 

Hunt

 

 

what range of multi's are expected?

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what range of multi's are expected?

 

Lightspeeds, Seacarts, Firebirds, Raiders, Corsairs, Farriers, Dragonflys... from the super quick, to the not so super quick (however would still woop a lead slinger of the same length round the course). It will be a great chance to get all these multis together and see how they fare against each other. Hopefully boats coming from Uk,US, Oz, Sweden, France..... more the merrier!

 

Then, if you really want to prove yourself and your boat, the Fastnet race starts the sunday after!

 

 

James (not ben, he just used my account)

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what range of multi's are expected?

Hunt, Hunt, Hunt,

 

Get ready for a windless Cowes week now i've blown my trumpet!

 

I'm sure the Lightspeed is a great boat to sail, after all it's a catamaran. I know the Seacarts strong points are it's light to light medium performance and we can't get near it on the water in those conditions (if sailed well) but beat them on corrected time usually. We've beaten them over line on several occasions, but in 20 kts plus breeze (a decent breeze). When does the LS start to get in the groove?

 

My point about weight not being the only factor, was raising the one trick pony syndrome that can effect very light boats were they perform brilliantly in very light winds, but overpower too soon and can't sail to their ratings as the breeze builds.

 

The sort of boats we are expecting at Cowes are ones that fit the MOCRA rule. This in essence is multihull which have accomodation and have offshore capabilities I.E Raiders, Litghtspeeds, Seacarts, Farriers, Dragonflys, Firebirds, Seaon's etc etc.

 

I cannot wait untill we get the who;le international assembled Cowes, it will be interesting to see the different sailing styles and systems all the different teams use.

 

Lets face it, on the whats better debate, who cares! As long as it's a decent multihull, it's bound to be good. Sail lead free.

 

Ben.

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Ben, it's your Raider that's for sale in the UK, right?

I do get race reports from Simon F. (forward my regards to him when you see him next) on a regular basis but I didn't know you raced againts the Seacart several times. It's dangerous to shoot from the hip. One might hit ones foot :-)

 

/Martin

Hi Martin,

 

I'll pass your regards to Simon.

 

I take your point about shooting from the hip, as i'm a crap shot and I have big feet. "Team Eberspacher" is tentatively for sale, the reason being is it's easier for someone to buy a Raider that's already here as it's a known quantity. If someone was seriously interested, i would order a new one for myself straight away.

 

In a previous quote someone mentioned the Raider being carbon and autoclaved (if i understood it correctly), but that isn't the case. The boat is vac bagged glass on Divinicell and is relatively low tech but very nicely built by ASA yachts in Oz. Don't bother with their website as it's "out of order".

 

We had the demo Seacart in the UK for the 2005 Royal Southampton YC Winter series and a great chap call Phil C has one called Buzz who races regularly and is really starting to get to grips with the boat, it won't be long before he's sailing it close to the boats rating.

 

Ben.

post-15744-1169418053_thumb.jpg

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Lightspeeds, Seacarts, Firebirds, Raiders, Corsairs, Farriers, Dragonflys... from the super quick, to the not so super quick (however would still woop a lead slinger of the same length round the course). It will be a great chance to get all these multis together and see how they fare against each other. Hopefully boats coming from Uk,US, Oz, Sweden, France..... more the merrier!

Hmmm...

Bringing my boat over is maybe not such a good idea (no road legal trailer for one and no regular crew) but looking for a crew spot...

 

/Martin

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In a previous quote someone mentioned the Raider being carbon and autoclaved (if i understood it correctly), but that isn't the case. The boat is vac bagged glass on Divinicell and is relatively low tech but very nicely built by ASA yachts in Oz. Don't bother with their website as it's "out of order".

They do do a little number in carbon if you ask nicely.... and cough up bit more folding stuff....

post-2115-1169421576_thumb.jpg

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The Red Raider is Tony Considine's - custom build using the Raider molds. All carbon and reportedly quite quick. Marstrom rig, beams and foils.

 

Ben, is Tony planning on coming to Cowes?

 

Hunt

 

Yes. APC MAX, the Red Raider weighs approx 1000 kg which is 800 lighter than a standard Raider and has acres more sail area, so could be the quickest boat there, but then so could the Lightspeed, Seacart or a one off home build.

 

If anyone is even slightly interested in doing Cowes Week, do let me know. It is the biggest regatta in the world, with almost 2000 boats taking part from Etchells to Volvo 70's to AC boats to the finest sailing machines in the world (multihulls, but i'm biased).

 

The after sail is legendary, with beer tents here there and everywhere, great bands, air displays and on the Friday, the most amazing fireworks.

 

It's too easy to think "I won't go because I haven't got a really fast boat", but you'd be wrong. MOCRA use a tried and tested rating system which means that a Dragonfly 800 is as likely to win as Orange 2, so please don't be put off as what ever you sail, there is bound to be identical or boats of similar performance, so everyone gets good racing.

 

 

It's -1 and windless here today and the memory of last years Cowes week with 20 kts and sunshine everyday gets us UK sailors through the Winter months.

 

Ben.

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The M&M Nacra A2 and the Nacra Infusion F18 have become the dominate boats in both of those classes.

 

That is a VERY big call.......... Second thoughts, that is just a BS statement. Care to explain how you came up with that conclusion.

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Here's an interesting one that just had a write-up in Multihulls magazine - the Sea Tribe 870. A little more on the cruising side perhaps, but there is a tall rig and daggerboard option...

 

5857_11042.jpg

 

 

Sea-Tribe 870

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Isn't the Firebird basically the same cat that Pete Goss singlehanded across the atlantic almost 20 years ago?

 

Yes it is, I think he had mental problems! They're full on boats that will kick you in arse if you stop concentrating for a nano second - hats off to the guy, he did something special there.

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The super cool trimaran that nobody has mentioned is the Ian Farrier designed F33.

 

Good allrounder, a balance between high tech, accomodation and good looks.

Unfortunately only about 10 were built I think as a semi-custom/limited production run.

 

One cleaned up the Round the Island race and Cowes Week multihull class a few years ago.

 

LS, Seacart, R33, Farrier, Dragonfly. Who cares, as long as you sail one.

 

My name says it all,

 

Multisail.

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They do do a little number in carbon if you ask nicely.... and cough up bit more folding stuff....

Looks like the freeboard is lower??

Sails by Hood. Is Gary Martin still with Hood in Sydney?

Gary designed and built my main (too) many years ago when he still was heading GM sails.

 

/Martin

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Yes it is, I think he had mental problems! They're full on boats that will kick you in arse if you stop concentrating for a nano second - hats off to the guy, he did something special there.

 

i saw that boat for sale online.

lots of upgrades.

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The super cool trimaran that nobody has mentioned is the Ian Farrier designed F33.

 

Good allrounder, a balance between high tech, accomodation and good looks.

Unfortunately only about 10 were built I think as a semi-custom/limited production run.

 

One cleaned up the Round the Island race and Cowes Week multihull class a few years ago.

 

LS, Seacart, R33, Farrier, Dragonfly. Who cares, as long as you sail one.

 

My name says it all,

 

Multisail.

post-13145-1169518893_thumb.jpg

Yes its a sweet boat, no doubt about that, however it still cant beat the Raider round the track. But like you said, who cares what it is, as long as it cruises past a mono with minimal effort, its good enough for me.

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post-13145-1169518893_thumb.jpg

Yes its a sweet boat, no doubt about that, however it still cant beat the Raider round the track. But like you said, who cares what it is, as long as it cruises past a mono with minimal effort, its good enough for me.

 

whast the top speed on the raider? Any polars?

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I think our max was recorded as 23.9knots in last years Cowes week. They sent us on massive reaches out of the solent, us and the F33R (CT2) were pretty much boat for boat untill they pushed too hard and dug their nose in till their deck was vertical and the mast foot was underwater (fun times!). No polars, but reguarly see 20+ out racing.

 

James

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The super cool trimaran that nobody has mentioned is the Ian Farrier designed F33.

 

Good allrounder, a balance between high tech, accomodation and good looks.

Unfortunately only about 10 were built I think as a semi-custom/limited production run.

 

One cleaned up the Round the Island race and Cowes Week multihull class a few years ago.

 

LS, Seacart, R33, Farrier, Dragonfly. Who cares, as long as you sail one.

 

My name says it all,

 

Multisail.

 

I couldn't agree more. We have raced against this boat called Carbon Tiger 2 which is a F33R. It looks good, has great accomo and is more or less the same performance as a Raider. The team who sail it are very experienced and bloody competitive, so don't expect an easy ride at Cowes week with this boat about.

 

Ben UK

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