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Ignore Flatbag, the sailing committee and the race department and press on. If enough members want it, it will happen.

 

Back to basics: "Planning is now well underway by a SYC group to run a two (or even two and a half) day event across the Labour Day weekend in March 2012..."

It would appear that your group involves neither the SYC sailing committee nor the SYC boating department as no one there seems to have the faintest idea about your "SYC Group" or your planned event. Either they are sworn to secrecy or your group is planning to ambush them with your project. Not generally a good move with such organizations I would suggest as their response tends to be somewhat incendiary. Care to expand on your plans and who, in any semblance of an official capacity, might be involved? Or would that be telling?

 

AT the other end of the bay there was a certain "disinterest" as I will tactfully put it, in running a Wednesday afternoon winter series (for the unemployed, retired, etc. etc.) . We were threatened that we couldn't race without club permission, Harbour master permission, Yachting Victoria permission, insurance liability, etc. etc. We now have our series because we collected enough owners who wanted it and "convinced" the objectors one by one. The sailing committee and the race department exist to serve the membership, and it is the members who determine if you will get your regatta or not.

 

This brings me to a theme I constantly push about engagement. The reason that racing is in decline is because owners become disengaged with the idea of racing through BS, like the corporate sponsorship that saw Geelongs regatta turn from an almost family affair into a corporate orgy that neatly divided yachties into "us" and "them". Other regattas have fallen victim to the same disease.

 

As for your proposal, if you can keep the BS out of it, and members like the idea of racing with like boats without artificial division breaks, etc., then have at it, sounds good.

 

By chance I recieved tonight in the post a flyer from Yachting Victoria promoting the 'Port Phillip Measurement Championship Series" to be run on alternate weekends from the ORCV Winter Series commencing 26th June.

 

Am interested in feedback on how people think this regatta may go given it follows the same format of the Oz Info Series from years ago, an a event sailed on alternate Sundays allbeit with a different targeted customer base.

 

So we have in Melbourne Winter 2011 club racing at SYC Saturday every second weekend, the RMYS event the next day and the ORCV Winter the following weekend + others?

 

Yes.........the prizes are tempting, $500 towards shade sails by the local tent maker.

 

Last time I attempted to race in a laid marks squadron race, the race committee set a course with a bottom mark inside the break water with no great margin of error for our 3m draft boat. After pulling out during the first race, we requested the squadron committee boat to change their course further out in the bay and they refused, so left me with no other choice but to go home early.

 

The squadron (RMYS) have some major improvements to make if they are to attract boats from other clubs to compete with their locals

 

Tempting, but I would prefer to stick with the ORCV winter series with the races well run with assistance from David Leroy in the Thawson. Would prefer if the ORCV brought back the Hastings or Western Port race, alternatively race from the Heads to Western port marker no.1 and back to Port Lonsdale light house, then back to the Queenscliff pub for a few beers!

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Tempting, but I would prefer to stick with the ORCV winter series with the races well run with assistance from David Leroy in the Thawson. Would prefer if the ORCV brought back the Hastings or Western Port race, alternatively race from the Heads to Western port marker no.1 and back to Port Lonsdale light house, then back to the Queenscliff pub for a few beers!

 

You building a rocket?

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Anyone know anything about a RYCV boat called Charmelia R177? It has turned up at Port Huon down here in Tas, apparently to race with the local fleet. :blink:

Not a Bluebird by any chance is it . . . . . . .

Bluewave 44 or so I'm told.

 

Has been for sale since new, been sitting at Royals for 4 years, built on spec I believe, rarely raced on Wednesday or Sat.

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Ignore Flatbag, the sailing committee and the race department and press on. If enough members want it, it will happen.

 

Back to basics: "Planning is now well underway by a SYC group to run a two (or even two and a half) day event across the Labour Day weekend in March 2012..."

It would appear that your group involves neither the SYC sailing committee nor the SYC boating department as no one there seems to have the faintest idea about your "SYC Group" or your planned event. Either they are sworn to secrecy or your group is planning to ambush them with your project. Not generally a good move with such organizations I would suggest as their response tends to be somewhat incendiary. Care to expand on your plans and who, in any semblance of an official capacity, might be involved? Or would that be telling?

 

AT the other end of the bay there was a certain "disinterest" as I will tactfully put it, in running a Wednesday afternoon winter series (for the unemployed, retired, etc. etc.) . We were threatened that we couldn't race without club permission, Harbour master permission, Yachting Victoria permission, insurance liability, etc. etc. We now have our series because we collected enough owners who wanted it and "convinced" the objectors one by one. The sailing committee and the race department exist to serve the membership, and it is the members who determine if you will get your regatta or not.

 

This brings me to a theme I constantly push about engagement. The reason that racing is in decline is because owners become disengaged with the idea of racing through BS, like the corporate sponsorship that saw Geelongs regatta turn from an almost family affair into a corporate orgy that neatly divided yachties into "us" and "them". Other regattas have fallen victim to the same disease.

 

As for your proposal, if you can keep the BS out of it, and members like the idea of racing with like boats without artificial division breaks, etc., then have at it, sounds good.

 

By chance I recieved tonight in the post a flyer from Yachting Victoria promoting the 'Port Phillip Measurement Championship Series" to be run on alternate weekends from the ORCV Winter Series commencing 26th June.

 

Am interested in feedback on how people think this regatta may go given it follows the same format of the Oz Info Series from years ago, an a event sailed on alternate Sundays allbeit with a different targeted customer base.

 

So we have in Melbourne Winter 2011 club racing at SYC Saturday every second weekend, the RMYS event the next day and the ORCV Winter the following weekend + others?

 

Yes.........the prizes are tempting, $500 towards shade sails by the local tent maker.

 

Last time I attempted to race in a laid marks squadron race, the race committee set a course with a bottom mark inside the break water with no great margin of error for our 3m draft boat. After pulling out during the first race, we requested the squadron committee boat to change their course further out in the bay and they refused, so left me with no other choice but to go home early.

 

The squadron (RMYS) have some major improvements to make if they are to attract boats from other clubs to compete with their locals

 

Tempting, but I would prefer to stick with the ORCV winter series with the races well run with assistance from David Leroy in the Thawson. Would prefer if the ORCV brought back the Hastings or Western Port race, alternatively race from the Heads to Western port marker no.1 and back to Port Lonsdale light house, then back to the Queenscliff pub for a few beers!

 

Thanks for the feedback.

 

Would you consider a regatta for yachts around 35' LOA in March?

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Condolences to Mr. Case.

Was that about his son?

 

Marcus Case died in Afghanistan last week in the service of his country. Sincere condolences to Bernie, Lee and the Case family.

To Marcus, I did not know you but as one who enjoys the freedoms we have here in Australia, I thank you for your valour and your ultimate sacrifice.

Rest in peace.

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Condolences to Mr. Case.

Was that about his son?

 

Marcus Case died in Afghanistan last week in the service of his country. Sincere condolences to Bernie, Lee and the Case family.

To Marcus, I did not know you but as one who enjoys the freedoms we have here in Australia, I thank you for your valour and your ultimate sacrifice.

Rest in peace.

+1

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Condolences to Mr. Case.

Was that about his son?

 

Marcus Case died in Afghanistan last week in the service of his country. Sincere condolences to Bernie, Lee and the Case family.

To Marcus, I did not know you but as one who enjoys the freedoms we have here in Australia, I thank you for your valour and your ultimate sacrifice.

Rest in peace.

 

 

Hear, Hear!

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Condolences to Mr. Case.

Was that about his son?

 

Marcus Case died in Afghanistan last week in the service of his country. Sincere condolences to Bernie, Lee and the Case family.

To Marcus, I did not know you but as one who enjoys the freedoms we have here in Australia, I thank you for your valour and your ultimate sacrifice.

Rest in peace.

+1

+2 well said FB

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Very well said Flat Bag - We all snipe one and other from time to time but when something like this happens it makes us all aware how precious life is and how loved ones can be lost so quickly. I was only talking to Bernie and Robert about a week or so ago at Royals and they were all so happy and carefreee. They would have received the news maybe the next day. How suddenly life can change.

 

My heartfelt condoloences to the Case family.

 

On a lighter (sic) note and with a direct link to the Melbourne Big Boat Fleet Thread - a big boat sailor from within this link is sitting (I think) 3rd at present in the World Etchells in SD. after 3 races.

Well done to Mike Hiatt (Living Doll) what a FANTASTIC EFFORT - This is such a class field and soooooo competetive - it is great to see this happen to one of our own (RVYC) and I for one dip my hat to his effort and would like to get further behind him for the rest of the regatta.

 

Not only is he running third overall at the moment - he has just WON heat 3 - this to follow up on a second in heat 2.

 

And just so we can all share some kudo's I believe that his crew are from SYC and RBYC - I could be corrected on this - but if this is true how good is this for the Melbourne Fleet.

 

Well done to all other from the bay who are also doing well - Nitro / Rob Hana - great job guys. :)

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Very well said Flat Bag - We all snipe one and other from time to time but when something like this happens it makes us all aware how precious life is and how loved ones can be lost so quickly. I was only talking to Bernie and Robert about a week or so ago at Royals and they were all so happy and carefreee. They would have received the news maybe the next day. How suddenly life can change.

 

My heartfelt condoloences to the Case family.

 

On a lighter (sic) note and with a direct link to the Melbourne Big Boat Fleet Thread - a big boat sailor from within this link is sitting (I think) 3rd at present in the World Etchells in SD. after 3 races.

Well done to Mike Hiatt (Living Doll) what a FANTASTIC EFFORT - This is such a class field and soooooo competetive - it is great to see this happen to one of our own (RVYC) and I for one dip my hat to his effort and would like to get further behind him for the rest of the regatta.

 

Not only is he running third overall at the moment - he has just WON heat 3 - this to follow up on a second in heat 2.

 

And just so we can all share some kudo's I believe that his crew are from SYC and RBYC - I could be corrected on this - but if this is true how good is this for the Melbourne Fleet.

 

Well done to all other from the bay who are also doing well - Nitro / Rob Hana - great job guys. :)

and his coach from RGYC, great job peely, mike and crew

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No Shogun, Doll or Scarlet Runner entered yet for the Southport race. Anyone know if they're going ?

 

Scarlett Runner is out of the water until September I think.

I gather she is undergoing a fairly intense weight loss program !

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No Shogun, Doll or Scarlet Runner entered yet for the Southport race. Anyone know if they're going ?

 

Scarlett Runner is out of the water until September I think.

I gather she is undergoing a fairly intense weight loss program !

Similar with Dolly and whats that I hear about another new Shogun in the pipeline??? :o

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No Shogun, Doll or Scarlet Runner entered yet for the Southport race. Anyone know if they're going ?

 

Scarlett Runner is out of the water until September I think.

I gather she is undergoing a fairly intense weight loss program !

Similar with Dolly and whats that I hear about another new Shogun in the pipeline??? :o

Let me guess . . . . because he can, right ?

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Similar with Dolly and whats that I hear about another new Shogun in the pipeline??? :o

 

Brand new or rebadged new?

 

Any details? Designer, length, number of hulls, etc

Brand new TP52.

Here in september.

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Similar with Dolly and whats that I hear about another new Shogun in the pipeline??? :o

 

Brand new or rebadged new?

 

Any details? Designer, length, number of hulls, etc

Brand new TP52.

Here in september.

Where to for the current one ?

To the highest bidder...

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Shogun to run a 2 boat program, current boat for offshore, new boat to take on Hooligan in the regatta's.

 

Have seen pictures of Dolly's recently completed spray job, looks really good. Would seem strange to go to the effort only to sell....... Wouldn't it???

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Shogun to run a 2 boat program, current boat for offshore, new boat to take on Hooligan in the regatta's.

 

Have seen pictures of Dolly's recently completed spray job, looks really good. Would seem strange to go to the effort only to sell....... Wouldn't it???

 

Yeah...... the paint job is very impressive with some more polishing being carried out yesterday. Maybe the paint job for a 55 foot hard stand boat is for selling purposes only and not for the extra speed advantage? It sure is difficult to train the crew up if this boat relies on a travel lift for sailing?

 

I guess the inshore boat is for Sydney and the offshore (current boat) to be based in Melbourne!

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Shogun to run a 2 boat program, current boat for offshore, new boat to take on Hooligan in the regatta's.

 

Have seen pictures of Dolly's recently completed spray job, looks really good. Would seem strange to go to the effort only to sell....... Wouldn't it???

 

Yeah...... the paint job is very impressive with some more polishing being carried out yesterday. Maybe the paint job for a 55 foot hard stand boat is for selling purposes only and not for the extra speed advantage? It sure is difficult to train the crew up if this boat relies on a travel lift for sailing?

 

I guess the inshore boat is for Sydney and the offshore (current boat) to be based in Melbourne!

 

So in summary, it seems we are unlikely to see Dolly nor Shogun as (regular) competitors in Melbourne racing this coming season. Add Cougar to that mix, Terra focussed on interstate and there is not much left for Division 0 racing in Melbourne.

Begs the question of whether it is worth continuing this as a separate division in the local racing scene. Will we see the regular (local) starters back in Div 1 next season? Sure to generate some discussion from the existing D1 participants if this happens....

 

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Based on the results in the recent State IRC and AMS Championships I would suggest that the Div 0 boats will win a lot of silverware in BOTH rating systems WHEN they are included in Div 1.

My suggestion is the divisional breaks need to be based on AMS rating rather than performance handicap, in an attempt to create more appropriate divisions. This would also stop the usual performance handicap manipulation which occurs to get certain boats into their preferred division e.g. A10s

And before all you IRC addicts get all stressed, the reasons I suggest AMS is because it is MASSIVELY cheaper to rate your boat under AMS, and I hate paying the British anything.

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Based on the results in the recent State IRC and AMS Championships I would suggest that the Div 0 boats will win a lot of silverware in BOTH rating systems WHEN they are included in Div 1.

My suggestion is the divisional breaks need to be based on AMS rating rather than performance handicap, in an attempt to create more appropriate divisions. This would also stop the usual performance handicap manipulation which occurs to get certain boats into their preferred division e.g. A10s

And before all you IRC addicts get all stressed, the reasons I suggest AMS is because it is MASSIVELY cheaper to rate your boat under AMS, and I hate paying the British anything.

 

De-evolution at its finest... Firstly joining Div 0 and 1 but then to drop IRC because of costs...

 

But I do agree with hating to give the Poms anything.

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Based on the results in the recent State IRC and AMS Championships I would suggest that the Div 0 boats will win a lot of silverware in BOTH rating systems WHEN they are included in Div 1.

My suggestion is the divisional breaks need to be based on AMS rating rather than performance handicap, in an attempt to create more appropriate divisions. This would also stop the usual performance handicap manipulation which occurs to get certain boats into their preferred division e.g. A10s

And before all you IRC addicts get all stressed, the reasons I suggest AMS is because it is MASSIVELY cheaper to rate your boat under AMS, and I hate paying the British anything.

 

De-evolution at its finest... Firstly joining Div 0 and 1 but then to drop IRC because of costs...

 

But I do agree with hating to give the Poms anything.

 

The longer the boat, the more the IRC revalidation cost.

 

Given there may not be many 50 footers in Div 1, its not that bad if they collect some of the silverware given their high running cost and their recent rapid devaluation.

 

The North Sail loft must also be hurting with less of these boats around

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Based on the results in the recent State IRC and AMS Championships I would suggest that the Div 0 boats will win a lot of silverware in BOTH rating systems WHEN they are included in Div 1.

My suggestion is the divisional breaks need to be based on AMS rating rather than performance handicap, in an attempt to create more appropriate divisions. This would also stop the usual performance handicap manipulation which occurs to get certain boats into their preferred division e.g. A10s

And before all you IRC addicts get all stressed, the reasons I suggest AMS is because it is MASSIVELY cheaper to rate your boat under AMS, and I hate paying the British anything.

 

De-evolution at its finest... Firstly joining Div 0 and 1 but then to drop IRC because of costs...

 

But I do agree with hating to give the Poms anything.

 

The longer the boat, the more the IRC revalidation cost.

 

Given there may not be many 50 footers in Div 1, its not that bad if they collect some of the silverware given their high running cost and their recent rapid devaluation.

 

The North Sail loft must also be hurting with less of these boats around

 

Not quite sure what you are saying here?

 

They cost a lot to run and therefore deserve to win?????

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Geez, looks like Shogun's brought out the big guns and Hawk's had a promotion for Hammo . . . . :o

 

BOAT NAME SAIL NO SKIPPER FROM DESIGN

CALM SM5252 Williams Van Der Slot SYC Farr Tp52

GEORGIA 10000 Farmer And Meads RNZYS Botin & Carkeek

HOOLIGAN AUS521 Marcus Blackmore RPAYC Tp52

LAHANA 10081 Millard/ Honan CYCA Bakewell - White 30m

Q 10 Ian Oatley MHYC Rp42

RODD&GUNN AUS11888 Bill Wild RQYS Reichel Pugh 55

SHOGUN AUS6952 Adam Hawkins RYCV Jv Tp 52

TERRA FIRMA SM24 Nicholas Bartels SYC Cookson 50

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Geez, looks like Shogun's brought out the big guns and Hawk's had a promotion for Hammo . . . . :o

 

BOAT NAME SAIL NO SKIPPER FROM DESIGN

CALM SM5252 Williams Van Der Slot SYC Farr Tp52

GEORGIA 10000 Farmer And Meads RNZYS Botin & Carkeek

HOOLIGAN AUS521 Marcus Blackmore RPAYC Tp52

LAHANA 10081 Millard/ Honan CYCA Bakewell - White 30m

Q 10 Ian Oatley MHYC Rp42

RODD&GUNN AUS11888 Bill Wild RQYS Reichel Pugh 55

SHOGUN AUS6952 Adam Hawkins RYCV Jv Tp 52

TERRA FIRMA SM24 Nicholas Bartels SYC Cookson 50

Owner's first shout at the bar!

 

Mex

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Similar with Dolly and whats that I hear about another new Shogun in the pipeline??? :o

 

Brand new or rebadged new?

 

Any details? Designer, length, number of hulls, etc

Brand new TP52.

Here in september.

So are they building a brand new TP52 or are they buying one of the new ones from this years Med Cup, al la ETNZ-Hooligan ?

 

Surely they aren't building a new TP52 to the class rules ??

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post-1322-092705400 1308820722_thumb.jpg

 

Easier than turning the computer upside down.

 

Geez John, I posted the photo that way up deliberately for northern hemisphere anarchists. The way you have shown them, the poor little buggers are gonna fall off their rack :P

 

See you at ABRW?

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  • 3 weeks later...

Anyone know why Calm has all of a sudden disappeared from the Sydney-Southport entry list ?

 

 

The composite rigging they ordered hasn't turned up, so no mast in the boat

I spose that's fair enough then. :P

 

... and I was about to offer a rumour that the reason was that in their last training session recently, they blew-up all the new gear that has recently gone onto the boat after a major wipe-out that left a couple of crew in the drink, and now have to complete some additional repairs....

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Anyone know why Calm has all of a sudden disappeared from the Sydney-Southport entry list ?

 

 

The composite rigging they ordered hasn't turned up, so no mast in the boat

I spose that's fair enough then. :P

 

... and I was about to offer a rumour that the reason was that in their last training session recently, they blew-up all the new gear that has recently gone onto the boat after a major wipe-out that left a couple of crew in the drink, and now have to complete some additional repairs....

 

that also has a bit to do with it given that they have to replace the fence along one side of the boat as well as a few of the boys apparently having some not so minor injuries...

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Anyone know why Calm has all of a sudden disappeared from the Sydney-Southport entry list ?

 

 

The composite rigging they ordered hasn't turned up, so no mast in the boat

I spose that's fair enough then. :P

 

... and I was about to offer a rumour that the reason was that in their last training session recently, they blew-up all the new gear that has recently gone onto the boat after a major wipe-out that left a couple of crew in the drink, and now have to complete some additional repairs....

 

that also has a bit to do with it given that they have to replace the fence along one side of the boat as well as a few of the boys apparently having some not so minor injuries...

Something to do with not having the A3 tack line on a winch, it pulled thru the jammer and all went pear shaped in some big time breeze. One dude came up under the boat and saw the tramsom disappearing fast. Major wing damage to his arm so it's in a sling for the next couple of months. Major rebuild of the arse end of the boat, they did away with the platform thingy in the mioddle and widened the side decks. Mounted the stanchions on fibreglass spigots and surprise surprise, down came the fence and swims for some.Lot$ of freight involved in the mod$ apparently. Maybe they should have spent a bit more on coaching or some basic lessons in handling bigger boats. Some major league fuckwit wannabes in that program. (Another) Accident waiting to happen :( so probably a good thing they aren't going to Southport.Some rats already believed to be deserting the ship...

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that also has a bit to do with it given that they have to replace the fence along one side of the boat as well as a few of the boys apparently having some not so minor injuries...

Something to do with not having the A3 tack line on a winch, it pulled thru the jammer and all went pear shaped in some big time breeze. One dude came up under the boat and saw the tramsom disappearing fast. Major wing damage to his arm so it's in a sling for the next couple of months. Major rebuild of the arse end of the boat, they did away with the platform thingy in the mioddle and widened the side decks. Mounted the stanchions on fibreglass spigots and surprise surprise, down came the fence and swims for some.Lot$ of freight involved in the mod$ apparently. Maybe they should have spent a bit more on coaching or some basic lessons in handling bigger boats. Some major league fuckwit wannabes in that program. (Another) Accident waiting to happen :( so probably a good thing they aren't going to Southport.Some rats already believed to be deserting the ship...

Fuck Flatbag, that's harsh.

 

I hope you sail a Laser or sail on a boat crewed by your family; 'cause there's no way I'd sail with you and I couldn't understand why anyone would that's not a blood relative.

 

Mex

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that also has a bit to do with it given that they have to replace the fence along one side of the boat as well as a few of the boys apparently having some not so minor injuries...

Something to do with not having the A3 tack line on a winch, it pulled thru the jammer and all went pear shaped in some big time breeze. One dude came up under the boat and saw the tramsom disappearing fast. Major wing damage to his arm so it's in a sling for the next couple of months. Major rebuild of the arse end of the boat, they did away with the platform thingy in the mioddle and widened the side decks. Mounted the stanchions on fibreglass spigots and surprise surprise, down came the fence and swims for some.Lot$ of freight involved in the mod$ apparently. Maybe they should have spent a bit more on coaching or some basic lessons in handling bigger boats. Some major league fuckwit wannabes in that program. (Another) Accident waiting to happen :( so probably a good thing they aren't going to Southport.Some rats already believed to be deserting the ship...

Fuck Flatbag, that's harsh.

 

I hope you sail a Laser or sail on a boat crewed by your family; 'cause there's no way I'd sail with you and I couldn't understand why anyone would that's not a blood relative.

 

Mex

 

Fibreglass spigots on stanchions. And the prize for engineering excellence goes to ___________.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Great job by the Dolly to take out the Audi Sydney-Gold Coast Race..... also good to see another Melbourne boat on the podium with Wicked winning IRC Div 3 after getting redress for their assistance to Wasabi (who lost their keel). Good to see that good seamanship gets recognised by racing officials, although I bet the other Bene F40's are not so sure given they were pushed back to 2nd and 3rd after the redress!!

 

More under separate thread in ocean racing anarchy.... http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=122726&st=175

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Seems that Audi Victoria Week is going back to the future??

 

Now known as The "Festival of Sails"

 

No naming rights sponsor willing to pony up,

seems that the new marketing team cant get any one interested, Dougie Jarvis got out at the right time!

 

The club is going to re-tender for all the infra-structure as in the past.

 

Let's see if they can put into play what they allegedly have learnt in the past?

(personally, i doubt it)

 

Like to hear all your thoughts

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Might be of interest to people looking to get into a fast 40 in Melbourne. Probably have a few questions so come along and hear what's happening.

 

www.longitudeyachts.com/SotoYachts/Corporate_Sail_Cup.html

 

Still selling Bull 9000's?

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Might be of interest to people looking to get into a fast 40 in Melbourne. Probably have a few questions so come along and hear what's happening.

 

www.longitudeyachts.com/SotoYachts/Corporate_Sail_Cup.html

 

Still selling Bull 9000's?

 

Hi. Not me selling the Soto 40s in this case. A charter Co. is buying them and leasing them back to interested people who want to get into a fast 40 for a lot less. I never sold the Bull 9s.... owned a Bull 12 about 12 years ago (in another lifetime it seems). Over at the Med playing Sotos with the pretty people :) .... and a bunch of young Aussies doing a damn fine job seeing they hadn't seen a Soto a week ago. First two S30s on the Bay in October

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  • 3 weeks later...

Congrats to Ashley Trebilcock's 'Bandit' (Bendytoy First 40) for the most spectacular wipe out of the 2011 winter season.

Executed on Saturday afternoon while running hard downwind under spinnaker, the wobbles kicked in early and the final outcome was, to those many on the SYC deck, in the race control tower and along the shore line who observed the situation, utterly inevitable.

Bandit didn't disappoint , finally tipping in to windward in a particularly solid gust and performing a horizontal hold, complete with spreader wash for quite a while. I heard that one poor soul was dunked and spent several minutes in the briny before being assisted back on board somewhat battered and bruised for the experience.

 

So was it just a matter of pilot error or is The Farr office maintaining their long held record of designing yachts lacking in fresh air downwind stability.

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I have sailed with Ash and I can tell you it was certainly not pilot error. He saves us from many a wipe out when I sailed with him. I also know the benes handle very well in heavy wind. I have heard it was very gusty could have been an unfortunate gust.

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Flat water, 25+ knots and a non-planning cruiser / racer will have the best helmsman tested. Especially if you're trying to get deep.

 

I was out with the Etchells and we had our hands full with a few of the squalls which came through. More than a few boats retired as their pumps were unable to keep up with the waves flooding the boats heading up hill and the burying of the nose going down hill.

 

Gotta love an early Spring northerly on the Bay.

 

Mex

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Flat water, 25+ knots and a non-planning cruiser / racer will have the best helmsman tested. Especially if you're trying to get deep.

 

I was out with the Etchells and we had our hands full with a few of the squalls which came through. More than a few boats retired as their pumps were unable to keep up with the waves flooding the boats heading up hill and the burying of the nose going down hill.

 

Gotta love an early Spring northerly on the Bay.

 

Mex

 

Yeah, but it doesn't blow like it used to!

With respect, handling any boat downwind in a blow takes a shitload more than just careful helming. Inattentive crew who just set and forget and don't adjust the pole or choke the sail down when it gets rolly are more likely to be at fault than the helmsman. I don't doubt Ash's helming capabilities but wonder about the trimmers ability to respond in those conditions. Most boats weren't using chutes on the day; perhaps a wise decision?

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Flat water, 25+ knots and a non-planning cruiser / racer will have the best helmsman tested. Especially if you're trying to get deep.

 

I was out with the Etchells and we had our hands full with a few of the squalls which came through. More than a few boats retired as their pumps were unable to keep up with the waves flooding the boats heading up hill and the burying of the nose going down hill.

 

Gotta love an early Spring northerly on the Bay.

 

Mex

 

Yeah, but it doesn't blow like it used to!

With respect, handling any boat downwind in a blow takes a shitload more than just careful helming. Inattentive crew who just set and forget and don't adjust the pole or choke the sail down when it gets rolly are more likely to be at fault than the helmsman. I don't doubt Ash's helming capabilities but wonder about the trimmers ability to respond in those conditions. Most boats weren't using chutes on the day; perhaps a wise decision?

 

Been there, done that on Wicked.... also in our first SYC Winter Series with the boat in a 25-30kn Northerly.... I call it an initiation ceremony! laugh.gif

For us, 30kn squirt hit mid-gybe off Green Point... bow went in deep and around we went ... not much that a trimmer, helm or anyone else could do except hang on and enjoy the ride.... unsure.gif

These boats have a nasty tendency to bury the bow with little warning, which is what Ash has now found out about! tongue.gif

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Interesting to see the new AMS 2 TCF's gradually being updated on the YV Keelboat page.

 

A couple of the Benne 40's up an average of 7, the 45's down quite a few and the 38's down an average around 15.

One of the Sydney 36's down 20 (watch ouit for them because prettyu well sailed) and the 11's down a wopping 31 which will make Tony a very happy man.

 

Adams 10's seem to have been left unchanged or actually lifted a little (not enough updated to tell as yet) and waiting for the Archies.

 

Maybe a leveling of the playing field?

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Interesting to see the new AMS 2 TCF's gradually being updated on the YV Keelboat page.

 

A couple of the Benne 40's up an average of 7, the 45's down quite a few and the 38's down an average around 15.

One of the Sydney 36's down 20 (watch ouit for them because prettyu well sailed) and the 11's down a wopping 31 which will make Tony a very happy man.

 

Adams 10's seem to have been left unchanged or actually lifted a little (not enough updated to tell as yet) and waiting for the Archies.

 

Maybe a leveling of the playing field?

Yay - about time the ratings were looked at - been years that certain designs were heavily favoured, and frustrating that the rule never seemed to evolve.

I don't think +7 will be enough for the B40s

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Interesting to see the new AMS 2 TCF's gradually being updated on the YV Keelboat page.

 

A couple of the Benne 40's up an average of 7, the 45's down quite a few and the 38's down an average around 15.

One of the Sydney 36's down 20 (watch ouit for them because prettyu well sailed) and the 11's down a wopping 31 which will make Tony a very happy man.

 

Adams 10's seem to have been left unchanged or actually lifted a little (not enough updated to tell as yet) and waiting for the Archies.

 

Maybe a leveling of the playing field?

 

 

See list here:http://www.topyacht.com.au/ams/ams_list_display.php

 

Lots of chatter about this going around the club bars this week. AMS is a rating system with a secret fudge factor; the playing field will never be level :P Pity they didn't leave the old list in the on-line archives for direct comparison so we have to go find last season's result sheets. Benny 40s increase is good but agree may not be enough. In reality, A-Tens are generally not well enough sailed with exception of Exec Dec & maybe Top Gun on a good day so not much real threat there. 11M ODs will be ordering new shelves for their trophy cabinets.The old relativity between like designs is all over the place. Understandable differential in the Syd 38's with some rating fraccy bags and some masthead but why the massive (33 points!) differential across the Syd 36s from Pisces in Hobart on 920 to Windspeed on 887 with Wild Side somewhere in the middle at 900? Particularly notable too that ALL the RYCV AMS bandits Exec Decision, Top Gun, Penfold Audi Sport, Wake etc aren't yet on the list...can we start a conspiracy theory that maybe something is cooking there or are they just slow to revalidate? Can we see the steam rising out of Hicky's computer as it crunches the numbers??

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Interesting to see the new AMS 2 TCF's gradually being updated on the YV Keelboat page.

 

A couple of the Benne 40's up an average of 7, the 45's down quite a few and the 38's down an average around 15.

One of the Sydney 36's down 20 (watch ouit for them because prettyu well sailed) and the 11's down a wopping 31 which will make Tony a very happy man.

 

Adams 10's seem to have been left unchanged or actually lifted a little (not enough updated to tell as yet) and waiting for the Archies.

 

Maybe a leveling of the playing field?

 

 

See list here:http://www.topyacht.com.au/ams/ams_list_display.php

 

Lots of chatter about this going around the club bars this week. AMS is a rating system with a secret fudge factor; the playing field will never be level :P Pity they didn't leave the old list in the on-line archives for direct comparison so we have to go find last season's result sheets. Benny 40s increase is good but agree may not be enough. In reality, A-Tens are generally not well enough sailed with exception of Exec Dec & maybe Top Gun on a good day so not much real threat there. 11M ODs will be ordering new shelves for their trophy cabinets.The old relativity between like designs is all over the place. Understandable differential in the Syd 38's with some rating fraccy bags and some masthead but why the massive (33 points!) differential across the Syd 36s from Pisces in Hobart on 920 to Windspeed on 887 with Wild Side somewhere in the middle at 900? Particularly notable too that ALL the RYCV AMS bandits Exec Decision, Top Gun, Penfold Audi Sport, Wake etc aren't yet on the list...can we start a conspiracy theory that maybe something is cooking there or are they just slow to revalidate? Can we see the steam rising out of Hicky's computer as it crunches the numbers??

Because Pices is the old Maram and was an IMS only version with a different keel and not much stability

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Interesting to see the new AMS 2 TCF's gradually being updated on the YV Keelboat page.

 

A couple of the Benne 40's up an average of 7, the 45's down quite a few and the 38's down an average around 15.

One of the Sydney 36's down 20 (watch ouit for them because prettyu well sailed) and the 11's down a wopping 31 which will make Tony a very happy man.

 

Adams 10's seem to have been left unchanged or actually lifted a little (not enough updated to tell as yet) and waiting for the Archies.

 

Maybe a leveling of the playing field?

 

 

See list here:http://www.topyacht.com.au/ams/ams_list_display.php

 

Lots of chatter about this going around the club bars this week. AMS is a rating system with a secret fudge factor; the playing field will never be level :P Pity they didn't leave the old list in the on-line archives for direct comparison so we have to go find last season's result sheets. Benny 40s increase is good but agree may not be enough. In reality, A-Tens are generally not well enough sailed with exception of Exec Dec & maybe Top Gun on a good day so not much real threat there. 11M ODs will be ordering new shelves for their trophy cabinets.The old relativity between like designs is all over the place. Understandable differential in the Syd 38's with some rating fraccy bags and some masthead but why the massive (33 points!) differential across the Syd 36s from Pisces in Hobart on 920 to Windspeed on 887 with Wild Side somewhere in the middle at 900? Particularly notable too that ALL the RYCV AMS bandits Exec Decision, Top Gun, Penfold Audi Sport, Wake etc aren't yet on the list...can we start a conspiracy theory that maybe something is cooking there or are they just slow to revalidate? Can we see the steam rising out of Hicky's computer as it crunches the numbers??

 

 

Actually one of the more successful Royals boats in recent times is up, that being Surprise.

As far as I can work out up from 837 to 870............................ouch.

 

No more silverware for this team.

 

Awaiting

 

  • Absolut
  • ED
  • TGun
  • APS
  • The other from SYC
  • Wake
  • TCutter

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Interesting to see the new AMS 2 TCF's gradually being updated on the YV Keelboat page.

 

A couple of the Benne 40's up an average of 7, the 45's down quite a few and the 38's down an average around 15.

One of the Sydney 36's down 20 (watch ouit for them because prettyu well sailed) and the 11's down a wopping 31 which will make Tony a very happy man.

 

Adams 10's seem to have been left unchanged or actually lifted a little (not enough updated to tell as yet) and waiting for the Archies.

 

Maybe a leveling of the playing field?

 

 

See list here:http://www.topyacht.com.au/ams/ams_list_display.php

 

Lots of chatter about this going around the club bars this week. AMS is a rating system with a secret fudge factor; the playing field will never be level :P Pity they didn't leave the old list in the on-line archives for direct comparison so we have to go find last season's result sheets. Benny 40s increase is good but agree may not be enough. In reality, A-Tens are generally not well enough sailed with exception of Exec Dec & maybe Top Gun on a good day so not much real threat there. 11M ODs will be ordering new shelves for their trophy cabinets.The old relativity between like designs is all over the place. Understandable differential in the Syd 38's with some rating fraccy bags and some masthead but why the massive (33 points!) differential across the Syd 36s from Pisces in Hobart on 920 to Windspeed on 887 with Wild Side somewhere in the middle at 900? Particularly notable too that ALL the RYCV AMS bandits Exec Decision, Top Gun, Penfold Audi Sport, Wake etc aren't yet on the list...can we start a conspiracy theory that maybe something is cooking there or are they just slow to revalidate? Can we see the steam rising out of Hicky's computer as it crunches the numbers??

 

Couple of other interesting relative AMS movements :

- Bene F40's up 7, Bene F35 up 3, Bene F36.7 same.... but Bene F45 goes down 8 clicks :blink:& Bene F34.7 down 20 clicks ???

- Measurer's boats all treated nicely: S/38 down 21, JAMH down 12, Jarken 925 down 4.

- Can't see the Adams' being "lifted" - Apache down 9, 2Xtreme down 6 from what I see.

- Lucky for Surprise that IRC has not whacked them like AMS.. hard to understand how a BB10 can rate the same as its big brother - BB12 (both 0.870) :huh:

- Nice move for the old Joint Venture - down 49... maybe time to go dust off the old IOR boats?

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Interesting to see the new AMS 2 TCF's gradually being updated on the YV Keelboat page.

 

A couple of the Benne 40's up an average of 7, the 45's down quite a few and the 38's down an average around 15.

One of the Sydney 36's down 20 (watch ouit for them because prettyu well sailed) and the 11's down a wopping 31 which will make Tony a very happy man.

 

Adams 10's seem to have been left unchanged or actually lifted a little (not enough updated to tell as yet) and waiting for the Archies.

 

Maybe a leveling of the playing field?

 

 

See list here:http://www.topyacht.com.au/ams/ams_list_display.php

 

Lots of chatter about this going around the club bars this week. AMS is a rating system with a secret fudge factor; the playing field will never be level :P Pity they didn't leave the old list in the on-line archives for direct comparison so we have to go find last season's result sheets. Benny 40s increase is good but agree may not be enough. In reality, A-Tens are generally not well enough sailed with exception of Exec Dec & maybe Top Gun on a good day so not much real threat there. 11M ODs will be ordering new shelves for their trophy cabinets.The old relativity between like designs is all over the place. Understandable differential in the Syd 38's with some rating fraccy bags and some masthead but why the massive (33 points!) differential across the Syd 36s from Pisces in Hobart on 920 to Windspeed on 887 with Wild Side somewhere in the middle at 900? Particularly notable too that ALL the RYCV AMS bandits Exec Decision, Top Gun, Penfold Audi Sport, Wake etc aren't yet on the list...can we start a conspiracy theory that maybe something is cooking there or are they just slow to revalidate? Can we see the steam rising out of Hicky's computer as it crunches the numbers??

 

 

Actually one of the more successful Royals boats in recent times is up, that being Surprise.

As far as I can work out up from 837 to 870............................ouch.

 

No more silverware for this team.

 

Awaiting

 

  • Absolut
  • ED
  • TGun
  • APS
  • The other from SYC
  • Wake
  • TCutter

 

AFAIK The APS guy still owns Surprise but she is last years boat and now out to pasture awaiting a new sucker/owner with her new AMS kneejerk factor high rating. Bloody ridiculous that it should rate the same as U/Capricorn which is 2m longer. It would seem AMS is just another performance based system now. The 21 point drop for the previously already competitive Syd 38s is utterly inexplicable....by anyone other than, perhaps,one of the measurers - talk about transparent vested interests!

Never thought it would get to this - It looks like IRC now rates the Melbourne fleet more fairly than our own local homegrown AMS.

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Interesting to see the new AMS 2 TCF's gradually being updated on the YV Keelboat page.

 

A couple of the Benne 40's up an average of 7, the 45's down quite a few and the 38's down an average around 15.

One of the Sydney 36's down 20 (watch ouit for them because prettyu well sailed) and the 11's down a wopping 31 which will make Tony a very happy man.

 

Adams 10's seem to have been left unchanged or actually lifted a little (not enough updated to tell as yet) and waiting for the Archies.

 

Maybe a leveling of the playing field?

 

 

See list here:http://www.topyacht.com.au/ams/ams_list_display.php

 

Lots of chatter about this going around the club bars this week. AMS is a rating system with a secret fudge factor; the playing field will never be level :P Pity they didn't leave the old list in the on-line archives for direct comparison so we have to go find last season's result sheets. Benny 40s increase is good but agree may not be enough. In reality, A-Tens are generally not well enough sailed with exception of Exec Dec & maybe Top Gun on a good day so not much real threat there. 11M ODs will be ordering new shelves for their trophy cabinets.The old relativity between like designs is all over the place. Understandable differential in the Syd 38's with some rating fraccy bags and some masthead but why the massive (33 points!) differential across the Syd 36s from Pisces in Hobart on 920 to Windspeed on 887 with Wild Side somewhere in the middle at 900? Particularly notable too that ALL the RYCV AMS bandits Exec Decision, Top Gun, Penfold Audi Sport, Wake etc aren't yet on the list...can we start a conspiracy theory that maybe something is cooking there or are they just slow to revalidate? Can we see the steam rising out of Hicky's computer as it crunches the numbers??

 

 

Actually one of the more successful Royals boats in recent times is up, that being Surprise.

As far as I can work out up from 837 to 870............................ouch.

 

No more silverware for this team.

 

Awaiting

 

  • Absolut
  • ED
  • TGun
  • APS
  • The other from SYC
  • Wake
  • TCutter

 

AFAIK The APS guy still owns Surprise but she is last years boat and now out to pasture awaiting a new sucker/owner with her new AMS kneejerk factor high rating. Bloody ridiculous that it should rate the same as U/Capricorn which is 2m longer. It would seem AMS is just another performance based system now. The 21 point drop for the previously already competitive Syd 38s is utterly inexplicable....by anyone other than, perhaps,one of the measurers - talk about transparent vested interests!

Never thought it would get to this - It looks like IRC now rates the Melbourne fleet more fairly than our own local homegrown AMS.

I tend to agree - the playing field just became more unlevel. :angry:

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I think it is a little early to be unhappy campers.

The number of points up or down for an individual boat is not the important measure, it is the percentage change against the boats new rating compared to the same with the competitors that needs to be looked at.

My boat is down 5 points from 1.012 to 1.007, however a boat with a starting rating of 0.880 getting the same 5 point drop to 0.0875 is actually getting a larger relative percentage drop.

 

In a nutshell, let's wait for the on-water results to answer our questions, otherwise some of us may look pretty silly in hindsight.

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Percentages it is then. Makes the changes a little more 'visible'

 

ams.pdf

Excellent work DC. Nice find.

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Interesting to see the new AMS 2 TCF's gradually being updated on the YV Keelboat page.

 

A couple of the Benne 40's up an average of 7, the 45's down quite a few and the 38's down an average around 15.

One of the Sydney 36's down 20 (watch ouit for them because prettyu well sailed) and the 11's down a wopping 31 which will make Tony a very happy man.

 

Adams 10's seem to have been left unchanged or actually lifted a little (not enough updated to tell as yet) and waiting for the Archies.

 

Maybe a leveling of the playing field?

 

 

See list here:http://www.topyacht.com.au/ams/ams_list_display.php

 

Lots of chatter about this going around the club bars this week. AMS is a rating system with a secret fudge factor; the playing field will never be level :P Pity they didn't leave the old list in the on-line archives for direct comparison so we have to go find last season's result sheets. Benny 40s increase is good but agree may not be enough. In reality, A-Tens are generally not well enough sailed with exception of Exec Dec & maybe Top Gun on a good day so not much real threat there. 11M ODs will be ordering new shelves for their trophy cabinets.The old relativity between like designs is all over the place. Understandable differential in the Syd 38's with some rating fraccy bags and some masthead but why the massive (33 points!) differential across the Syd 36s from Pisces in Hobart on 920 to Windspeed on 887 with Wild Side somewhere in the middle at 900? Particularly notable too that ALL the RYCV AMS bandits Exec Decision, Top Gun, Penfold Audi Sport, Wake etc aren't yet on the list...can we start a conspiracy theory that maybe something is cooking there or are they just slow to revalidate? Can we see the steam rising out of Hicky's computer as it crunches the numbers??

 

 

Actually one of the more successful Royals boats in recent times is up, that being Surprise.

As far as I can work out up from 837 to 870............................ouch.

 

No more silverware for this team.

 

Awaiting

 

  • Absolut
  • ED
  • TGun
  • APS
  • The other from SYC
  • Wake
  • TCutter

 

AFAIK The APS guy still owns Surprise but she is last years boat and now out to pasture awaiting a new sucker/owner with her new AMS kneejerk factor high rating. Bloody ridiculous that it should rate the same as U/Capricorn which is 2m longer. It would seem AMS is just another performance based system now. The 21 point drop for the previously already competitive Syd 38s is utterly inexplicable....by anyone other than, perhaps,one of the measurers - talk about transparent vested interests!

Never thought it would get to this - It looks like IRC now rates the Melbourne fleet more fairly than our own local homegrown AMS.

I tend to agree - the playing field just became more unlevel. :angry:

 

Disagree.

 

After looking at the PDF you posted it gives a better overall picture (thus far) and think it does in fact level the playing field.

The purpose of any measurement handicap system is to rate boats to their potential and that is a hard thing to do given varying performances in varying conditions.

 

Only IMS seriously tried to deal with this and look what happened to the "perfect handicapping system"

 

A single figure measurement handicap system tries to be all things to all people and will never be perfect, but at least AMS is cheap, well organized, local and growing.

 

I couldn't care less if a few favoured designs lose out and never win again, only to be replaced by new favoured designs that always win

 

A bunch of new faces in the money can't be a bad thing can it? At least for the next couple of years.

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Percentages it is then. Makes the changes a little more 'visible'

 

ams.pdf

 

The general trend across the board is a reduction in ratings.

 

Funny that the boat to receive the biggest ratings lift so far (+ 1.95) is an Endeavour 24. Must be the PBO rigging they've just invested in...

 

Mex

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Percentages it is then. Makes the changes a little more 'visible'

 

ams.pdf

 

The general trend across the board is a reduction in ratings.

 

Funny that the boat to receive the biggest ratings lift so far (+ 1.95) is an Endeavour 24. Must be the PBO rigging they've just invested in...

 

Mex

 

Actually Surprise at 2.84% up is the biggest.

Based on the current list, I'd be a happy S38 or S36 owner (if I was one).

I must try and find Rossco, and see if he needs a crew on Affirmative Action! 'cause I cannot see Smoothie finding another +1.5% on the S38's

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Percentages it is then. Makes the changes a little more 'visible'

 

ams.pdf

 

The general trend across the board is a reduction in ratings.

 

Funny that the boat to receive the biggest ratings lift so far (+ 1.95) is an Endeavour 24. Must be the PBO rigging they've just invested in...

 

Mex

 

Actually Surprise at 2.84% up is the biggest.

Based on the current list, I'd be a happy S38 or S36 owner (if I was one).

I must try and find Rossco, and see if he needs a crew on Affirmative Action! 'cause I cannot see Smoothie finding another +1.5% on the S38's

IRC Don ? ;)

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Disagree.

 

After looking at the PDF you posted it gives a better overall picture (thus far) and think it does in fact level the playing field.

The purpose of any measurement handicap system is to rate boats to their potential and that is a hard thing to do given varying performances in varying conditions.

 

Only IMS seriously tried to deal with this and look what happened to the "perfect handicapping system"

 

A single figure measurement handicap system tries to be all things to all people and will never be perfect, but at least AMS is cheap, well organized, local and growing.

 

I couldn't care less if a few favoured designs lose out and never win again, only to be replaced by new favoured designs that always win

 

A bunch of new faces in the money can't be a bad thing can it? At least for the next couple of years.

Correct - a single figure system is always going to be a compromise - but its better to have that, which is easy to manage, and easy for the sailors to understand.

 

Re: Leveling the playing field - another of AMSs 'pet' designs, the F1020s, has gone down >1%, when in fact they should've gone up same. The fact that some boats are seeing 4 - 5% changes, ie Adams 350 Fab Action & Farr 38 Porto - its gotta say that the rule's been neglected for some years, or it was just way out of whack. 4% is huge. And if a boat sails 5% below its AHC its result is usually discarded (for CHC purposes) as an anomoly. Should be some interesting results this year.

 

Attached is another pdf in % order.

ams.pdf

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Updates to 30th September

 

Awaiting

 

  • Absolut ?
  • ED ?
  • TGun Up 14 click to .869 (dead i.e.11's down 31)
  • APS Up 9 clicks to .875 (maybe OK but no longer just has to turn up, particularly as all closest competition has come down. i.e. Nutcracker down 16)
  • The other from SYC .874 (as above but less experiance and will sail week to week against Windspeed at SYC)
  • Wake ? (only sails Association Cup so irrelivant)
  • TCutter ?
  • Surprise Up to .870 (see TG comments)
  • Godzilla?

Seems like someone has taken a whip to the the Royals boats.

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...................Anything to take the Association Cup from RYCV.

 

All handicapping systems seem to operate on one principle these days; the guy who spends the most money MUST win most of the time. Otherwise how are designers, builders and sail makers going to stay in business?

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