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On 4/9/2019 at 11:10 AM, Bilbo said:

So all you hairy chested f wits who have not had a death on your boat (there but for the grace of god) get over your stupid selves , Adams 10 s can always take life lines  off when doing a class regatta.

Hi mate. I’m not hairy chested, probably a fuckwit, and I’ve had a death on my boat. In our case I never contemplated whether the presence or absence of lifelines changed anything apart from how we could get him back on board and the coroner didn’t consider them or any other sailing equipment to have had any causal relevance in the circumstances. If she had would have been happy for recommendations to be made and for rules or procedures to be changed based on those recommendations. As it was we had lifelines before and continue to have them now.

If it’s the case the OC has decided to mandate lifelines for general safety reasons, I’m pretty indifferent. But in a situation where I’m not aware of any conclusion that a lack of lifelines played any part in the two A10 tragedies, I think it’s out of order to mandate lifelines in one event as an asserted response to those tragedies. 

if my understanding of anything is wrong I’m happy to be corrected.

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We did the rebuild over a number of years. We would race and cruise in the summer, then in the winter we would pick an area and refit that area as our winter project. So we used the boat pretty much f

One of the biggest challenges facing div yacht racing is the wholesale de skilling of people through lack of opportunity to learn in adverse conditions races get called off , no one does deliveri

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Hairy chested, is in reference to the trivializing of problem by showing  a Tumlarin sailing in 10 - 15 and adding a silly comment which I found disappointing and insulting.

Regrettably we all have our scars.

The point is when running a singular event such as the Association Cup with little room for a resail in a busy calendar there has been a propensity to get it done.

The point is allowing boats to race in weather which is extreme and possibly beyond the safe capability of the some of the boats entered.

Leaving for the skippers to stop sailing is one thing , but racing in a club representation team sailing event could influence skippers'' decision makingl .

Having said that, sailing with life lines or no is not the point, what I am wanting to express in a very clumsy way is that in racing boats with lesser safety capability (eg. the absence life lines)  against yachts which are extreme weather capable in an event which continues in extreme weather is a demonstrably dangerous scenario.

Sandringham Yacht Club has made the decision for  extreme weather capable yachts to race in the possibility of an extreme weather event.  A decision which I applaud, and a decision which my home club chose not to support (very disappointing0. At least Royals has notified their members reasons for their decision not participate in the event which my home club hasn't done (other than a cursory comment by the Commodore in the Club news letter). 

I will  now pull my head in

 

 

    

 

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One thing that I think is a negative aspect of a well intentioned idea is the fact that we don't go racing in dirty weather anymore. I get the fact that it's all about litigiation and necessary arse covering by clubs, but I still don't agree with it.

That's not because I own a heavy weather capable boat, I felt the same when I owned a tippy trailer sailer. Calling a race start off because its blowing 20-25 knots just ensures we're not gaining experience for when the weather really goes south. 

This applies to sheltered water racing as well as offshore. We had a 30-35 knot squall come through in a race in a narrow channel, and 3 or 4 heavy weather capable boats  went aground in minutes. We weren't one of them thankfully, and the only difference I can think of is we'd been going out practising whenever the weather turned shitty.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not one for charging out when its blowing 40-50 knots, but nor do I think it's healthy to ensure we only go racing when it's optimal weather. I'd like to think that racing gives the skipper and crew an opportunity to learn and understand the nuances of boat handling in all wind ranges, or else how do we expect to manage when its blowing like stink and you're pinned on your ear with too much sail up?

 

 

 

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15 hours ago, shaggybaxter said:

One thing that I think is a negative aspect of a well intentioned idea is the fact that we don't go racing in dirty weather anymore. I get the fact that it's all about litigiation and necessary arse covering by clubs, but I still don't agree with it.

That's not because I own a heavy weather capable boat, I felt the same when I owned a tippy trailer sailer. Calling a race start off because its blowing 20-25 knots just ensures we're not gaining experience for when the weather really goes south. 

This applies to sheltered water racing as well as offshore. We had a 30-35 knot squall come through in a race in a narrow channel, and 3 or 4 heavy weather capable boats  went aground in minutes. We weren't one of them thankfully, and the only difference I can think of is we'd been going out practising whenever the weather turned shitty.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not one for charging out when its blowing 40-50 knots, but nor do I think it's healthy to ensure we only go racing when it's optimal weather. I'd like to think that racing gives the skipper and crew an opportunity to learn and understand the nuances of boat handling in all wind ranges, or else how do we expect to manage when its blowing like stink and you're pinned on your ear with too much sail up?

 

 

 

Shaggy you have raised an important issue that I believe has the potential to come back to bite sailing administrators very hard one day. In recent years, severely restricted wind limits have seen a whole generation of sailors removed from (possible) risk but also removed from learning opportunities that may save their lives at sea one day. Consistent wind speeds, actual or even if forecast, above about 25 knots seems to be the cut off point for starting racing here these days but 25 knots is really not a lot of wind.

How they are expected to learn the skills needed to survive at sea in the conditions they are certain to encounter at some point in their sailing career, offshore or inshore, is beyond me. Helming and handling a boat in 30 - 35 - 40 - 50 knots or more and in big seas is a very different proposition from doing the same in 25 knots or less and those skills need to be acquired in order to sail safely when the worst of conditions are encountered.  And yes, in the past they used to let us race in those conditions here on Port Phillip. We raced, we busted gear and masts, we tore sails and we wiped out frequently but we also learned how to handle our boats in those conditions. Sometimes racing was cancelled back then but that was a rare occurrence and often we would still go out and sail around anyway.  The catch-cry from older sailors used to be "It doesn't blow like it used to"  but actually, it does, and sailors need to be prepared for that. Here is a clipping about a JOG Winter Series race from 1983 and we continued to race on Port Philip in those sort of winds strengths and more right up to the early 2000s.  FYI Ian (we all know him as Barney) Walker went on from these sorts of experiences to become one of the most sought after heavy weather helmsmen in the wide world of sailing.

350523568_HSarticle83001.thumb.jpg.7a384a12cd4603a381a97c4206e0cd05.jpg

 

 

 

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Have any of you heard the term "times change".

In the 70's and prior the technology was not available to produce light weight/displacement yachts. All the yachts required 20+ knots to rocket along at hull speed.

You want the old times back? Buy yourselves an old RORC or IOR yacht and enter the ORCV races.

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I remember being bowman on an IOR Farr 1 tonner somewhere in the later 80's.

Full kevlar hull built by Cooksons.

We marked on the mast base below deck our maximum speed.

Downhill in 40 knots in a Sydney Hobart almost out of control, with only half the amount of freeboard we were sucking down so hard. Wire/rope brace on the storm kite was rigid to understate it.  Max speed 14.2 knots

My current boat does that in 20 knots true under main and jib only in pre-start manoeuvres.

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1 hour ago, Don said:

I remember being bowman on an IOR Farr 1 tonner somewhere in the later 80's.

Full kevlar hull built by Cooksons.

We marked on the mast base below deck our maximum speed.

Downhill in 40 knots in a Sydney Hobart almost out of control, with only half the amount of freeboard we were sucking down so hard. Wire/rope brace on the storm kite was rigid to understate it.  Max speed 14.2 knots

My current boat does that in 20 knots true under main and jib only in pre-start manoeuvres.

Arrr, back in the day when men were men and cabin boys were scared!

At least you had some freeboard left - when we did those speeds on the old Witchdoctor it was like we’d sailed the boat into a tunnel. And you needed someone on the other side of the tiller ready to push against you when she got squirrelly. Which was all the time.

 

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3 hours ago, Don said:

You want the old times back? Buy yourselves an old RORC or IOR yacht and enter the ORCV races.

I know this is a bit tongue in cheek but it does go to the value of the ORCV winter/DH series. Those races have been our only opportunity to race (our ocean going boat) in a gale in the bay in the last few years and we all & particularly new people learnt a lot more that way than cruising around.

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3 hours ago, Don said:

 

14.2 knots.   My current boat does that in 20 knots true under main and jib only in pre-start manoeuvres.

That's two knots faster than a Farr 40 One Design, according to the polars.  Your IRC rating must be too low!    :-)

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10 hours ago, SPORTSCAR said:

Shaggy you have raised an important issue that I believe has the potential to come back to bite sailing administrators very hard one day. In recent years, severely restricted wind limits have seen a whole generation of sailors removed from (possible) risk but also removed from learning opportunities that may save their lives at sea one day. Consistent wind speeds, actual or even if forecast, above about 25 knots seems to be the cut off point for starting racing here these days but 25 knots is really not a lot of wind.

How they are expected to learn the skills needed to survive at sea in the conditions they are certain to encounter at some point in their sailing career, offshore or inshore, is beyond me. Helming and handling a boat in 30 - 35 - 40 - 50 knots or more and in big seas is a very different proposition from doing the same in 25 knots or less and those skills need to be acquired in order to sail safely when the worst of conditions are encountered.  And yes, in the past they used to let us race in those conditions here on Port Phillip. We raced, we busted gear and masts, we tore sails and we wiped out frequently but we also learned how to handle our boats in those conditions. Sometimes racing was cancelled back then but that was a rare occurrence and often we would still go out and sail around anyway.  The catch-cry from older sailors used to be "It doesn't blow like it used to"  but actually, it does, and sailors need to be prepared for that. Here is a clipping about a JOG Winter Series race from 1983 and we continued to race on Port Philip in those sort of winds strengths and more right up to the early 2000s.  FYI Ian (we all know him as Barney) Walker went on from these sorts of experiences to become one of the most sought after heavy weather helmsmen in the wide world of sailing.

350523568_HSarticle83001.thumb.jpg.7a384a12cd4603a381a97c4206e0cd05.jpg

 

 

 

Nice one Sportscar - lots of memories there - and I can say, with a ton of pride,  I have sailed with or against every name mentioned in this article and call many of them close mates. Man, I'm a lucky bugger!! 

ps. Dad would've been pissed off that the Swanson 36's got abandoned! - Sequel loved a blow!!

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One of the biggest challenges facing div yacht racing is the wholesale de skilling of people through lack of opportunity to learn in adverse conditions

races get called off , no one does deliveries and racing has gone indoors so to speak

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18 hours ago, Curious said:

That's two knots faster than a Farr 40 One Design, according to the polars.  Your IRC rating must be too low!    :-)

Original rating was incorrect due to errors in E measurement (1 metre too short) and spinnaker area was too low. When I got all that sorted and lodged a revised application, at 1.242 I thought that was too stupid to contemplate.

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Can someone explain to me why SYC  ran the Association Cup mandating via NOR a couple of Cat 4 requirements and one cat 5 requirement for a series of what they designated as cat 6 races being sailed by keelboats in Port Philip, yet for the Wednesday Wonders the NOR says Cat 6.?

I thought the sailors involved in the Association Cup would have been some of the most experienced, unlike the WW sailors.

But in the same patch of water the AC was cat6 plus cat4 and cat5 requirements and WW is cat6 only.

But it is "all about safety" apparently

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11 minutes ago, Don said:

Can someone explain to me why SYC  ran the Association Cup mandating via NOR a couple of Cat 4 requirements and one cat 5 requirement for a series of what they designated as cat 6 races being sailed by keelboats in Port Philip, yet for the Wednesday Wonders the NOR says Cat 6.?

I thought the sailors involved in the Association Cup would have been some of the most experienced, unlike the WW sailors.

But in the same patch of water the AC was cat6 plus cat4 and cat5 requirements and WW is cat6 only.

But it is "all about safety" apparently

That's because the Association Cup races kills sailors and WW races don't.

The Association Cup races are cursed by a mystical force that makes the races much more dangerous. More dangerous than WW races, more dangerous than the ORCV winter series, more dangerous than any other club or interclub races on the bay.

Time to end the Association Cup for the safety of sailors, it's just not worth the risk.

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56 minutes ago, hoppy said:

That's because the Association Cup races kills sailors and WW races don't.

The Association Cup races are cursed by a mystical force that makes the races much more dangerous. More dangerous than WW races, more dangerous than the ORCV winter series, more dangerous than any other club or interclub races on the bay.

Time to end the Association Cup for the safety of sailors, it's just not worth the risk.

I think you may have unearthed SYC's cunning plan to hold the Association Cup in perpetuity.

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1 minute ago, Don said:

I think you may have unearthed SYC's cunning plan to hold the Association Cup in perpetuity.

When my club is due to host it, I'm going to push for it to become a OD event using Adams 10's

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1 minute ago, hoppy said:

When my club is due to host it, I'm going to push for it to become a OD event using Adams 10's

Nah, Bluebirds for Div 2 and Diamonds for Div 1

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Dragons - designed 1929

Bluebirds - designed 1947

Black Soo - designed and launched 1958

Thunderbird - designed and launched 1958

Tumlaren - designed 1937 over 600 built worldwide

Diamond - Oooh Nooo designed 1960 with over 6000 built worldwide, obviously doesn't meet the safety criteria

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 2/2/2019 at 10:57 PM, Sailingkid said:

 

On 2/5/2019 at 3:39 PM, Swanno said:

I thought it had already gone. Renamed Thriller

Walk on the Wild Side / Thriller is listed for sale now....

https://yachthub.com/list/yachts-for-sale/used/sail-monohulls/inglis-58/231434

That's a lot of boat for only 9000kg

 

0_4.jpg

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21 hours ago, hoppy said:

 

Walk on the Wild Side / Thriller is listed for sale now....

https://yachthub.com/list/yachts-for-sale/used/sail-monohulls/inglis-58/231434

That's a lot of boat for only 9000kg

 

0_4.jpg

2.5t in the keel. We were 5 ft longer with 500kg more in the keel

didnt have a great stability number I found I recall correctly.

Good luck t the bloke. Former owner had been advertising it for fifteen or so years.

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On 4/30/2019 at 7:22 AM, Gorn FRANTIC!! said:

Well that didn't last very long...

Screenshot_20190429-103808_Facebook.jpg

Wonder what that's all about ? Anyone know ?

1. Something bigger & better coming ?

2. The youth program thing not working ?

3. Money issues ? (doubt it)

4. Other ??

 

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On 5/1/2019 at 1:42 AM, ALL@SEA said:

My first thought looking at the cockpit is I'd like some foot-braces - or does one stand ahead of the wheel and brace against the pedestal? 

5_4.jpg

It did have them. 

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On 4/30/2019 at 7:22 AM, Gorn FRANTIC!! said:

Well that didn't last very long...

Screenshot_20190429-103808_Facebook.jpg

Darey said he bought the TP so he could sail with his son and friends while it was still cool enough for them to want to sail with him. He should have known that kids these days have the attention span of a humming bird. I'm sure he will pop up again with something new and exciting but meanwhile he is still club racing and he has entered for the ORCV Apollo Bay Race so he's def not mothballing it until it sells.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Same boat that had the prang with Dark Energy. Starting to see a pattern?

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  • 4 weeks later...

The first ORCV winter series race was run today with the TP52 Ambition taking LH over PC & Carrera S.

Ambition had a clean sweep winning IRC, AMS & PHS in both div 1 & overall.

looks like the race was a bit of a drifter and a few slower boats had a DNF

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 7/3/2019 at 11:10 PM, hoppy said:

The 2nd winter series race is on this weekend, a passage race to Blairgowrie. With 48 boats entered, it looks like it's vindication of the ORCV's winter series changes.

https://www.topyacht.com.au/db/kb/entrants_display.php?SeriesID=6768&Task=ShowSeriesEntrants&EventID=1108

My old cruiser is doing the race.

 

48 boats on the line with a wide range of skills and experience across the fleet and a downwind start off Brighton in 10-15 knots. Camera time! 

The numbers are a great vindication of ORCVs changes to their Winter Series. 

 

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12 hours ago, SPORTSCAR said:

48 boats on the line with a wide range of skills and experience across the fleet and a downwind start off Brighton in 10-15 knots. Camera time! 

The numbers are a great vindication of ORCVs changes to their Winter Series. 

 

I hope Ron looked after Jessabbe.

 

I guess the biggest thing to help the series is the race format, as they are very different to what most clubs hold. I presume that the 4+ AP also helps boats that are struggling with crews too.

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On 7/5/2019 at 11:35 PM, SPORTSCAR said:

48 boats on the line with a wide range of skills and experience across the fleet and a downwind start off Brighton in 10-15 knots. Camera time! 

The numbers are a great vindication of ORCVs changes to their Winter Series. 

 

Yep. The ORCV has recognised the change in dynamics in boats, owners, crews, fleets - and catered for it.  Well done.  Will other yacht clubs take note and realise that ww/lw races are a bit on the nose these days ?

Cracking race yesterday, in light & variable breeze

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I thought my old boat was doing exceptionally well until I looks back on the AIS track to see that they were consistently doing 5.9knots and were obviously using the iron sail.

 

looked like a stunning day to be on the water

 

66057474_2249570088706869_23646163123547

 

 

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On 7/14/2019 at 7:29 PM, Whatcouldpossiblygowrong said:

With such a big Sydney to Hobart this year are we going to see people doing the Melbourne to Hobart ? Hope so, would be sad to see the race suffer from disinterest and apathy. Heading down that isolated coast in the big swells is pretty memorable.

We might get a big fleet for Stanley with the local boats using it as a qualifying race

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There was some "fleet" politics so now theres the Super 11s in VIC and Super 12s in NSW*

*May be an over simplification.

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11 hours ago, hoppy said:

We might get a big fleet for Stanley with the local boats using it as a qualifying race

After the flogging they got in last years Stanley Race, the smarter ones are doing Sydney-Southport as their qualifier this year. Quite a number of Vic yachts in that one.

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2 minutes ago, SPORTSCAR said:

After the flogging they got in last years Stanley Race, the smarter ones are doing Sydney-Southport as their qualifier this year. Quite a number of Vic yachts in that one.

Okay yes we blew a forestay, but I wouldn't say that last years Stanley was a flogging; 40kts max with no real waves. Beach weather...

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49 minutes ago, SPORTSCAR said:

After the flogging they got in last years Stanley Race, the smarter ones are doing Sydney-Southport as their qualifier this year. Quite a number of Vic yachts in that one.

only 4 Vic boats in S2S but 15 in S2H needing to qualify.

Are you heading up to GC to greet Mrs Sportscar?

I assume Patriot is staying up that way for the rest of the year. Perhaps Hamo? 

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Just now, hoppy said:

only 4 Vic boats in S2S but 15 in S2H needing to qualify.

Are you heading up to GC to greet Mrs Sportscar?

I assume Patriot is staying up that way for the rest of the year. Perhaps Hamo? 

4 + Jaffa which is listed as WA but has sailed out of RYCV for several years. 

Mrs is on Patriot and our son is on Jaffa, so this year I'm staying home with Miss Year 12 as she approaches the business end of her school life.

No Hammo scheduled for Patriot this year, plan is for her to be back home by the end of August. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I was at the RMYS marina the other day and noticed a Sydney 38 tied up there. It has no name or club marking on it. It has a black (carbon) wheels and black covers. I don't recall any S38's with black wheels listed, so I wonder which one it is. Have not asked at the club to see if it's a new purchase by a member.

Anyone know anything?

 

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51 minutes ago, Skirmish said:

Chutzpah 38?

Oh phuck, you are right.

The day before Chutzpah 38 pulled into that very pen the day before and when I first saw this boat I thought it was Chutzpah. For some reason I thought Chutzpah had a red wheel and the day before it still had it's name on the sides, so I assumed that it was not the same boat.

Now when I look at the photos I took at the AWKR, I realise it is Chutzpah.

Normally when the names are removed from the sides of boats you can still see the name until the hull has undergone a serious polish in a yard. So I assumed wrongly that it couldnt be Chutzpah.

I hope it's a RMYS member who bought her. Curious to see how a S38 goes in our elderly fleet.

https://photos.smugmug.com/RMYS-Racing/AWKR-Racing/i-FL55NN3/0/3441f4a4/4K/IMG_6969-4K.jpg

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I think there are a few pending protests about the start.

We were out sailing in a club race when"Blue Chip" motored through our fleet with half a spinnaker flapping around at the masthead. I guess they were heading to the comfort of their marina to deal with it.

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On 8/3/2019 at 5:57 PM, hoppy said:

Chutzpah 38's new name is No Man's Land

Sound's like a good name for an AWKR entry.

IMG_6796.jpg

FIFY and yes, I was a breast fed baby...

NML.thumb.jpg.a144057a7a0ec390533cd025759e206a.jpg

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LOL

I was also down in Mornington and the mooring were almost empty apart from a couple of boat on moorings close to the breakwater. Is that normal for winter or has everyone run for shelter or hauled out because of the forecast?

 

BTW found another S38 with a black wheel, Obsession at MYC. It's still on a mooring.

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15 hours ago, hoppy said:

BTW found another S38 with a black wheel, Obsession at MYC. It's still on a mooring.

Is it on the beach yet?

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  • 2 weeks later...

Last week our commodore talked about some conference he went to hosted by AS and mentioned that Victoria is leading the country in sailing participation. My first thoughts were BS and WTF.

I just found the AS National Sailing Participation Census from 2017 which explains it 

https://s3-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/piano.revolutionise.com.au/site/bpm82luduxcnfhxa.pdf

num of                         clubs              members        club racing  participants 

New South Wales            101                20,291            6714              

Victoria                              83                  23,488             8352                            

 

 

I guess a large percentage of yacht owners are "forced" into becoming club members in Melbourne because the clubs have the most moorings/pens whilst in Sydney a huge percentage of boats are kept on government owned moorings , so the owners don't bother to join clubs. As for racing, it gives owners an excuse to sail in Melbourne because it's not interesting to cruise here so often.

So at a grass roots level, organised sailing is biggest in Melbourne. Unfortunately AS don't care about grass root sailors, just olympic level and glamour boats...

 

 

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