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Older well known IOR Boats


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21 minutes ago, DickDastardly said:

Different rudder setup on Terrorist in that dock shot - looking like twin rudders.  Is that a new thing?

The photos are of the rebuild so a few years old. The guy that owns it did much of work himself. I used to be in contact with him on the web but he closed all his profiles 

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Me too.  A blooper gybe right outside the StFYC is a thing of beauty for the spectators on the roof.  Unless it's not.

I do remember a fine comment from a bow guy on Williwaw in the Admiral's Cup, 1981 I think.  Dennis Conner was driving, and he loved double-head rigs, and sometimes triple-head with two staysails.  Th

Bob Perry posted an article a couple of years back that I think is a really good overview of the IOR system.  Posting here with his permission.... Time to sit up straight and spit your gum out. W

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19 hours ago, See Level said:

They probably don't wear their team gear when they fly commercial:ph34r:

After the BBS at St.FYC in late 70's when crew were returning to Newport Beach there was an 'incident' at SFO (airport) when Bobby Thompson, wearing a Terrorist shirt, was interrogated at the gate. Not sure he made the flight,,,,,

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20 hours ago, hobot said:

Whoa!!

 

On 4/18/2020 at 3:53 PM, BravoBravo said:

Loved this boat ! Was in the same yard prepping for the SORC...if you like going upwind this would be it

terr3.jpg

terr2.jpg

Terror1.jpg

No traveler?

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1 hour ago, ROADKILL666 said:

 

No traveler?

Yes, zoom in on the middle pic. I seem to recall when these pics were up here some time ago, the guy who did the re-hab (or a friends) weighed in and mentioned that the pics are not contemperaneous... the traveler was added after the middle pic was taken... eye-strap was a temporary at-the-dock "hold down".

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10 hours ago, JoeO said:

Yes, zoom in on the middle pic. I seem to recall when these pics were up here some time ago, the guy who did the re-hab (or a friends) weighed in and mentioned that the pics are not contemperaneous... the traveler was added after the middle pic was taken... eye-strap was a temporary at-the-dock "hold down".

That make sense now

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1 hour ago, Caca Cabeza said:

8 is a fibonacci  number. Smart guy!

And that leads to....?   Is there anything mystical about being a Fibonacci series number?  Never heard of it.

I'd love to have .000001% of all the money that's been lost betting on 8.

fibonacci-sequence.png

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10 hours ago, SF Woody Sailor said:

It is also the luckiest number in Chinese.

Speaking of lucky sail numbers... All of these are Royal Hong Kong Yacht Club boats:

All of Karl Kwok's Beau Geste's have sail number HKG1997 (the year Hong Kong passed from the British back to China)

Sam Chan's maxis Free Fire HKG2283 (easy, easy, money, life)

HKG2388 (easy life, money, money) belongs to Joachim, former Commodore at RHKYC

Peter Churchouse has 8888

You get the idea.

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33 minutes ago, SF Woody Sailor said:

Speaking of lucky sail numbers... All of these are Royal Hong Kong Yacht Club boats:

All of Karl Kwok's Beau Geste's have sail number HKG1997 (the year Hong Kong passed from the British back to China)

Sam Chan's maxis Free Fire HKG2283 (easy, easy, money, life)

HKG2388 (easy life, money, money) belongs to Joachim, former Commodore at RHKYC

Peter Churchouse has 8888

You get the idea.

Hopefully no one has Aces and Eights...  

Dead_man's_hand.jpg

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13 hours ago, Left Shift said:

And that leads to....?   Is there anything mystical about being a Fibonacci series number?  Never heard of it.

I'd love to have .000001% of all the money that's been lost betting on 8.

fibonacci-sequence.png

Donald Duck explains it pretty well: 

 

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8 hours ago, SF Woody Sailor said:

I am pretty sure the old Mari-Cha IV is now Samurai.

Yup.

MC3 is still looking the same. She was visiting the River Dart (Dartmouth) last Autumn. Quite a big boat in that setting.

 

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On 4/17/2020 at 10:25 AM, Maxx Baqustae said:

Hey Zenmasterfred,

This showed up on my Wastebook feed:

 

Hagar.jpg

The "Fabulous Hagar", we had a diamond decal on the stern and used to play the diamond in the back, sunroof top, digging the scene with the gangster lean song coming in from races, man, we had fun w/ that boat.

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  • 4 months later...

I was going through Paul Mello's site looking at pictures from the '79 One Tons. You old timers took this seriously enough that you literally would sabotage each others' boats? I mean, a handful of ringdings on deck is one thing, cutting through someone's shrouds to cause a failure is a whole other level of ass.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Running Tide and Dora IV (Tenacious / War Baby) were similar S&S 61 footers with a good rivalry. The first race of the 1974 SORC started with a beat out of Tampa Bay and the two boats were neck and neck as we approached the bridge and the breeze freshened, making it time for a sail change. On Dora, our #2 genoa was a 2 ply 6oz Dacron sail weighing near 200 lbs. and hanked to the forestay. The standard sail change involved hauling up the new sail (bricked) from the forepeak and hanking it on to the forestay. Then we set a forestaysail on an inner stay and sheeted it home before dropping the old headsail. I sat on the bow facing aft and undid the old hanks as fast as possible while 4 guys wrestled the old sail down and to weather. When the old head got to me, I swapped the halyard to the new one and up she went. The new sail was sheeted home and we dropped the staysail and flaked and bricked the old sail as best we could (no sausage bags yet). While easy to write, this was a ball buster of a change and pretty much all hands (18) were scrambling to get it done.

Tide started their change just about the same time as we did. Timmy Twinstay  had just come out with his fore and aft grooved aluminum stay and Tide had one. No staysail for them, and no hanks. I can't say if they hoisted inside or outside, but the tack change hadn't been invented yet and when I finally had a chance to look around after our change, there they were a quarter mile back with a crowd of guys on the foredeck still struggling to get the old sail down. By the time they were cleaned up, we were probably a half mile ahead. 

Sometimes new isn't better. 

 

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2 minutes ago, A3A said:

Running Tide and Dora IV (Tenacious / War Baby) were similar S&S 61 footers with a good rivalry. The first race of the 1974 SORC started with a beat out of Tampa Bay and the two boats were neck and neck as we approached the bridge and the breeze freshened, making it time for a sail change. On Dora, our #2 genoa was a 2 ply 6oz Dacron sail weighing near 200 lbs. and hanked to the forestay. The standard sail change involved hauling up the new sail (bricked) from the forepeak and hanking it on to the forestay. Then we set a forestaysail on an inner stay and sheeted it home before dropping the old headsail. I sat on the bow facing aft and undid the old hanks as fast as possible while 4 guys wrestled the old sail down and to weather. When the old head got to me, I swapped the halyard to the new one and up she went. The new sail was sheeted home and we dropped the staysail and flaked and bricked the old sail as best we could (no sausage bags yet). While easy to write, this was a ball buster of a change and pretty much all hands (18) were scrambling to get it done.

Tide started their change just about the same time as we did. Timmy Twinstay  had just come out with his fore and aft grooved aluminum stay and Tide had one. No staysail for them, and no hanks. I can't say if they hoisted inside or outside, but the tack change hadn't been invented yet and when I finally had a chance to look around after our change, there they were a quarter mile back with a crowd of guys on the foredeck still struggling to get the old sail down. By the time they were cleaned up, we were probably a half mile ahead. 

Sometimes new isn't better. 

 

Great narration.

Even with the "new stuff" like Tuff Luffs, Vectran halyards and fancy sails the straight line headsail change from #1 to #3 or vice versa (when you are cracked off a little and can't do a tack change) is a bitch.

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Happy memories of a 1981 Solent AC race on the Holland 51 Midnight Sun with Timmy Twinstay driving.  A certain (un-nameable) Irish 50 behind us hoisted their no. 2 with huge pain and effort outside the heavy no. 1.  Then they tacked, and with more huge pain and effort dropped the no. 1 down the outside.  Timmy just shook his head and announced "That's an Irish tack change."

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3 hours ago, A3A said:

Running Tide and Dora IV (Tenacious / War Baby) were similar S&S 61 footers with a good rivalry. The first race of the 1974 SORC started with a beat out of Tampa Bay and the two boats were neck and neck as we approached the bridge and the breeze freshened, making it time for a sail change. On Dora, our #2 genoa was a 2 ply 6oz Dacron sail weighing near 200 lbs. and hanked to the forestay. The standard sail change involved hauling up the new sail (bricked) from the forepeak and hanking it on to the forestay. Then we set a forestaysail on an inner stay and sheeted it home before dropping the old headsail. I sat on the bow facing aft and undid the old hanks as fast as possible while 4 guys wrestled the old sail down and to weather. When the old head got to me, I swapped the halyard to the new one and up she went. The new sail was sheeted home and we dropped the staysail and flaked and bricked the old sail as best we could (no sausage bags yet). While easy to write, this was a ball buster of a change and pretty much all hands (18) were scrambling to get it done.

Tide started their change just about the same time as we did. Timmy Twinstay  had just come out with his fore and aft grooved aluminum stay and Tide had one. No staysail for them, and no hanks. I can't say if they hoisted inside or outside, but the tack change hadn't been invented yet and when I finally had a chance to look around after our change, there they were a quarter mile back with a crowd of guys on the foredeck still struggling to get the old sail down. By the time they were cleaned up, we were probably a half mile ahead. 

Sometimes new isn't better. 

 

Back in the day 'Tide had a split bow pulpit to allow the headsail to go cleanly outside the lifelines, and would sheet to the jib lead block, that was outside the lifelines, on a long track at the sheer. 

Would need to be tended at the tack to get the genoa through the gap. That feature made it (almost) impossible to perform a straight line foil change, no matter if the new sail was hoisted inside, or outside of the old. Multiple issues...

I don't recall using a jib less than 125% on that boat. I think the range of racing sails was 170%, 150%, 145%, 125%. Or similar. Very like a 12m. Running Tide was designed at S&S in the same era as Courageous, and had a similar underwater profile. German Frers was a junior designer there at the time. 

Complete with a trim tab on the keel when new. The original wheel had four rims. The outside, largest rim was slightly forward of the next smaller. They were connected, with short struts, and was rudder control. The next smaller rim was to adjust the keel trim tab, and the fourth, and smallest, was the lock, or brake for the tab. The rudder and trim tab were not connected, and the tab had a small range of movement. I believe the tab was disabled, faired and fixed to the keel on centerline to get rid of a IOR penalty that was applied. 

Was told by someone who ought to know that the original sail plan on 'Tide, mast hight, jib and main proportions, sail area, etc. was used on Merlin, for it's original rig. The foresaty on 'Tide was at the bow, Merlin's about 6' aft. Merlin at 68' LOA, and 'Tide at 62'. Merlin 25,000 lbs, and 'Tide at 62,000. 

Funny that.

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Love hearing about Running Tide, and happy to see her so lovingly restored.  Always admired that boat and wanted to crew.  Never got the chance. 

I did sail a season on Cayenne (Pod was BN), which I do believe was faster.  But, Tide was always better sailed.

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Back in Tide’s heyday, I was driving Rage, the original Charlie Morgan 54  and we were often match racing Tide. We also glassed in our trim tab to avoid the IOR penalty.  She would usually stretch her legs if the wind built at all and leave us behind but it was nice to dial it up with her. Of course, we were dragging around a full load of furniture and she was empty.  I see in the pics that they have a replacement for “Big Al” hanging on the back stay.

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Speaking of jib changes, I seem to remember that before Timmy did his ting, some boats actually fitted two headstays side-by-side, to try and get the same effect. Undoubtedly was not as efficcient and I can see issues with hanks on the new sail getting caught on hanks on the olds sail as they went past each other. And issues with getting equal tension - one headstay sagging to leeward, the other straight, until it gets loaded by the new sail, then the other one goes straight as it gets unloaded. What a nightmare!  

Anyone else remember this (short-lived) "breakthrough", or is it just flashbacks I'm having?

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37 minutes ago, JoeO said:

Speaking of jib changes, I seem to remember that before Timmy did his ting, some boats actually fitted two headstays side-by-side, to try and get the same effect. Undoubtedly was not as efficcient and I can see issues with hanks on the new sail getting caught on hanks on the olds sail as they went past each other. And issues with getting equal tension - one headstay sagging to leeward, the other straight, until it gets loaded by the new sail, then the other one goes straight as it gets unloaded. What a nightmare!  

Anyone else remember this (short-lived) "breakthrough", or is it just flashbacks I'm having?

It happened. As I recall, it was fairly common on some British offshore cruisers as well. I don’t think it was common on racing boats. Even in the “dark ages” of 170 genoas and horrible bumps and hollows, folks generally understood that 2 head stays side by side were enormously bad for flow across the luff. 

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1 hour ago, Innocent Bystander said:

It happened. As I recall, it was fairly common on some British offshore cruisers as well. I don’t think it was common on racing boats. Even in the “dark ages” of 170 genoas and horrible bumps and hollows, folks generally understood that 2 head stays side by side were enormously bad for flow across the luff. 

Not only that, it was rubbish for point. Even if you got both adjusted to the same tension, if the “leeward” forestay was loaded the “weather” forestay meant there was even more sag in the forestay you wanted straight. 

Also, the forestays were mounted side by side at the masthead crane so the mast twisted depending on which forestay was loaded. Not a good feature. 

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15 hours ago, jhc said:

Back in the day 'Tide had a split bow pulpit to allow the headsail to go cleanly outside the lifelines, and would sheet to the jib lead block, that was outside the lifelines, on a long track at the sheer. 

Would need to be tended at the tack to get the genoa through the gap. That feature made it (almost) impossible to perform a straight line foil change, no matter if the new sail was hoisted inside, or outside of the old. Multiple issues...

I don't recall using a jib less than 125% on that boat. I think the range of racing sails was 170%, 150%, 145%, 125%. Or similar. Very like a 12m. Running Tide was designed at S&S in the same era as Courageous, and had a similar underwater profile. German Frers was a junior designer there at the time. 

Complete with a trim tab on the keel when new. The original wheel had four rims. The outside, largest rim was slightly forward of the next smaller. They were connected, with short struts, and was rudder control. The next smaller rim was to adjust the keel trim tab, and the fourth, and smallest, was the lock, or brake for the tab. The rudder and trim tab were not connected, and the tab had a small range of movement. I believe the tab was disabled, faired and fixed to the keel on centerline to get rid of a IOR penalty that was applied. 

Was told by someone who ought to know that the original sail plan on 'Tide, mast hight, jib and main proportions, sail area, etc. was used on Merlin, for it's original rig. The foresaty on 'Tide was at the bow, Merlin's about 6' aft. Merlin at 68' LOA, and 'Tide at 62'. Merlin 25,000 lbs, and 'Tide at 62,000. 

Funny that.

Did you get to sail on her when the trim tab was functional?  Was the tab used for helm trim or keel lift, or possibly both?  If for lift, how much of an advantage was it for velocity made good towards the weather mark?  I imagine it must have been some benefit or they would not have been penalized.  I have never had the opportunity to sail on such a boat.  Tartan 41 being the most "similar" and still at least a few orders of magnitude away. 

Man, you all were fortunate to sail on such boats.  I am sure your skill and knowledge had a lot to do with it.

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2 hours ago, Innocent Bystander said:

It happened. As I recall, it was fairly common on some British offshore cruisers as well. I don’t think it was common on racing boats. Even in the “dark ages” of 170 genoas and horrible bumps and hollows, folks generally understood that 2 head stays side by side were enormously bad for flow across the luff. 

We had them on an Alden Cheoy Lee 50 (lovely boat BTW) on an Atlantic crossing in 1976. Inexperienced helmsmen (including me) would occasionally gybe the jib going downwind, then gybe it back.  The inevitable result was that the jib hanks transferred themselves to the other stay, and some clipped themselves round both of them, much to the unamusement of Peter Deeth the owner and skipper.

 

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1 hour ago, Bob Perry said:

John Buchan's HEATHER. Still going strong as a cruising boat.

HEATHER rendezvous.jpg

Good to see that boat has had some love - it was looking pretty sad when it was for sale cheap a few years back.

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4 hours ago, Bus Driver said:

Love hearing about Running Tide, and happy to see her so lovingly restored.  Always admired that boat and wanted to crew.  Never got the chance.

Nobody has mentioned that Running Tide has one of the two best boat names ever.

The other is Windward Passage.

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With twin headstays it was sometimes tough hanking on the new jib while on a beat - prolonged time required, fingers slipping off the knurled knobs on the hanks (especially in cold conditions) plunging bow, white / green water in the face or down the foulies, jibs interfering w/ each other, keeping the foot where needed and, of course, yelling from the back.

One of the better boat names I ran across years ago - a Laser named "Rumpleforeskin".

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5 minutes ago, tizak said:

One of the better boat names I ran across years ago - a Laser named "Rumpleforeskin".

My Dad bought a Rhodes 33 in the late 50's that was named Dream. It had been nicknamed "Wet Dream" by the fleet so he renamed it Reveille.

 

- Funny side story. He didn't actually buy the Rhodes 33. He won in in a domino game during StFYC Stag Cruise. He would never tell me what he put up as his stake.

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2 hours ago, SF Woody Sailor said:

My Dad bought a Rhodes 33 in the late 50's that was named Dream. It had been nicknamed "Wet Dream" by the fleet so he renamed it Reveille.

 

- Funny side story. He didn't actually buy the Rhodes 33. He won in in a domino game during StFYC Stag Cruise. He would never tell me what he put up as his stake.

Congratulations still being apart of your family.  Close call there.  ;)

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2 hours ago, SF Woody Sailor said:

Not another boat name thread!

Not my intent - there are lots of good boat names but those two are the best IMO.

When Passage was new(ish) was when I got interested in sailing and I didn't even realize the Windward Passage was a place - I thought the name referred to making a sailing passage to windward.

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3 hours ago, P_Wop said:

We had them on an Alden Cheoy Lee 50 (lovely boat BTW) on an Atlantic crossing in 1976. Inexperienced helmsmen (including me) would occasionally gybe the jib going downwind, then gybe it back.  The inevitable result was that the jib hanks transferred themselves to the other stay, and some clipped themselves round both of them, much to the unamusement of Peter Deeth the owner and skipper.

 

I sailed across the Atlantic on a boat with twin forestays too, but it was in 1975, and god-awfully slow.  Eastward delivery from Halifax to Southampton, but we bailed into Cardiff instead after 42 days wallowing around out there.

The boat was a 36' Alden woodie sloop named True North, delivering with the owner and two others for an OSTAR attempt the following year (from which he retired).  The forestay setup was the worst I've ever seen - two forestays mounted to a chainplate that wrapped around the hull at the bow, each set back more that 1' from the bow, so they were at least 1' apart at deck level.  Resulted in horrendous sailing abilities, impossible to maintain tension on the stressed forestay, and the skipper was far more suited to solo passages than crewed...

It was over 40 years before I ever contemplated another ocean passage!

Cheers!

 

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29 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

Not my intent - there are lots of good boat names but those two are the best IMO.

When Passage was new(ish) was when I got interested in sailing and I didn't even realize the Windward Passage was a place - I thought the name referred to making a sailing passage to windward.

I will grant that Windward Passage is a name in a class all by itself.

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34 minutes ago, MauiPunter said:

Congratulations still being apart of your family.  Close call there.  ;)

My first thought as well. Today, in particular, I would gladly wager my 13 year old son against, say, a Melges 32. I am not sure whether or not I would throw the game B)

Actually I wasn't born yet so it must have been something else. They were at the Island, and drinking was clearly involved so maybe a Rolex or something. My Dad had a 5.5 meter at the time so that would not have been an even bet.

 

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Just now, SF Woody Sailor said:

My first thought as well. Today, in particular, I would gladly wager my 13 year old son against, say, a Melges 32. I am not sure whether or not I would throw the game B)

Actually I wasn't born yet so it must have been something else. They were at the Island, and drinking was clearly involved so maybe a Rolex or something. My Dad had a 5.5 meter at the time so that would not have been an even bet.

 

Even with new North 3di headsails and a pro tactician for each major regatta, campaigning a Melges 32 is cheap compared to raising a 13 year old in the Bay Area.

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4 minutes ago, hobot said:

In another time....Bolero.

 

 

Most every weekend during the season would find on the racecourse the 73ft yawl, Bolero, the 72ft yawl, Baruna, the 65ft yawl, Good News, the 63ft cutter, Orient and the 63ft yawl, Athene. Add Chubasco and Santana for the first, 1960, Big Boat Series.

 

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10 minutes ago, zenmasterfred said:

We kicked a lot of ass w/ that boat and she still looks stunning.  She was an upwind machine and a little sporty downwind in a blow but this is the PNW so no problemo.

 

She is a beauty. Skinny rig for a cruiser. Will it stay up in a seaway without checkstays and babystay? I guess you aren’t exactly trying to short tack the Cityfront doublehanded. 

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Just now, SF Woody Sailor said:

She is a beauty. Skinny rig for a cruiser. Will it stay up in a seaway without checkstays and babystay? I guess you aren’t exactly trying to short tack the Cityfront doublehanded. 

We had all the appropriate wires to keep the rig up and when she was new we never dropped it.  Not sure in the intervening years, that was a lonnnnngggggg time ago now.

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13 hours ago, bridhb said:

Did you get to sail on her when the trim tab was functional?  Was the tab used for helm trim or keel lift, or possibly both?  If for lift, how much of an advantage was it for velocity made good towards the weather mark?  I imagine it must have been some benefit or they would not have been penalized.  I have never had the opportunity to sail on such a boat.  Tartan 41 being the most "similar" and still at least a few orders of magnitude away. 

Man, you all were fortunate to sail on such boats.  I am sure your skill and knowledge had a lot to do with it.

No, the trim tab had been incapacitated years before i was aboard. Those trim tabs are, or can be, very effective upwind. The IOR handicap rule penalized boats that used them over 100% of the race course, while they were of no benefit when reaching, and sailing downwind. They incurred a prohibitive penalty. So, out they went, like last years pumps.

I was a 19 year old kid when I raced aboard Running Tide in the '77 SORC. Owe that to my good friend Todd Wheatly. I sailed aboard with several "luminaries" and also several young guys that were about my age. I believe those older gentlemen were at least, and may have been, more than 30 years old! 

Was an epic series. More stories, and events than I could fit on many pages of this forum. 

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15 hours ago, bridhb said:

Did you get to sail on her when the trim tab was functional?  Was the tab used for helm trim or keel lift, or possibly both?  If for lift, how much of an advantage was it for velocity made good towards the weather mark?  I imagine it must have been some benefit or they would not have been penalized.  I have never had the opportunity to sail on such a boat.  Tartan 41 being the most "similar" and still at least a few orders of magnitude away. 

Man, you all were fortunate to sail on such boats.  I am sure your skill and knowledge had a lot to do with it.

I never raced,..... But I crewed for daysails on a Morgan 54 modeled after "Rush" but with a different bottom/hull design, more like the 12 meters of the period. She had a deep keel with the trim tab aft then a "bustle" up to the end of the long part of the keel & attached rudder. BO loved to show how he could tack the boat with just the trim tab. If I'm still sane...I believe the trim tab was most effective going upwind, locked and and turned down, abit ,,,, to leeward!!!,,,, to somewhat counter any weather helm. The boa'ts name here for many years was was "Silversword". Afaik, she's in Thailand now.

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15 hours ago, Liquid said:

Yowza!!!

That's hot!

Is it IOR?

Bolero, Dorade etc. were all CCA rule.  The pre- and post WWII gold standard for rating boats on the East Coast.  There were a collection of gold-plater 72'ers that set the standard for elegance (and old money).  All gorgeous.  With the bronze deck fittings polished and the varnish touched up after every sail.  

All of them had paid hands dressed in khaki who weren't allowed aft of the mast except to deliver lunch.  Then again, elegance only related to what was on deck.  After lunch, those paid hands would pick op the scraps, box them and toss the box overboard.  Out of sight, out of mind.  

Apparently they are still chugging along:  https://cruisingclub.org/news/one-year-ago-cca-skippers-sweep-classics-division-rolex-big-boat-series  I presume they now recycle.

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3 hours ago, Bob Perry said:

Zen master:

HEATHER still has the original rig believe it or not. The current owners are total hackers and I am expecting them to bring the rig down next summer.

Watching Johnny Buchan driving Heather downhill in a breeze was a master class in keeping the boat under the rig.

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8 minutes ago, Left Shift said:

Bolero, Dorade etc. were all CCA rule.  The pre- and post WWII gold standard for rating boats on the East Coast.  There were a collection of gold-plater 72'ers that set the standard for elegance (and old money).  All gorgeous.  With the bronze deck fittings polished and the varnish touched up after every sail.  

All of them had paid hands dressed in khaki who weren't allowed aft of the mast except to deliver lunch.  Then again, elegance only related to what was on deck.  After lunch, those paid hands would pick op the scraps, box them and toss the box overboard.  Out of sight, out of mind.  

Apparently they are still chugging along:  https://cruisingclub.org/news/one-year-ago-cca-skippers-sweep-classics-division-rolex-big-boat-series  I presume they now recycle.

Umm, are you sure you know what you are talking about?

Until the early 70's the CCA was the pre-eminent rule in the Americas (not just East Coast) and the RORC in Europe. As international regattas proliferated there came to be a need for a unified rule which was IOR. Broadly speaking, the IOR was formulated on the basis of the CCA approach to sail measurement and the RORC method of hull measurement. But both these aspects of a yacht’s rating under IOR borrowed aspects from both rules, while balancing the use of profile (CCA) and girth (RORC) in the measurement of length. IOR didn't really go places until about 1970 when the Mk II rule came along thanks to the International Technical Committee headed by Olin Stephens.

Except in your imagination the CCA was not just some pre-war relic involving acres of varnish and bronze fittings polished by uniformed deckhands. The rule also gave us Dorade and revolutionary yachts like the Lapworth 36 and its progeny the Cal 40.   

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Raced on Baruna for several years in my high school days. Baruna and Bolero were sister ships built 11 years apart. Early days of St.F.Y.C. Big Boat Series Baruna and Bolero went head to head frequently.

image.png.f3844d641404ed5df1aac635b048a137.png

Baruna - Sparkman & Stephens 1938 (inspired by Dorade (1929)).

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Bolero - Sparkman & Stephens 1949.

It really was a big boat series in the early days. First year was light and included an ocean race out to the light ship and back (which no one finished until after midnight). After that the format was inside the bay, all CCA ratings and very hotly contested. The '65 and '66 events included:

Baruna - winer '66 & '67

Bolero

Orient

Kialoa - 1963 Kialoa II

Athene

Ticonderoga

Laura

Vixen (1965 winner)

Sirius (10 Meter)

Chubasco

Stormvogel

And more.

Was a crazy time for Barient as they were early days with a lot of winches and other equipment and dedicated to ensuring that, as much as possible, everything worked as intended on every boat every day. The race format was a pretty full week - race days were Monday, Wednesday, Friday and Saturday. One memorable incident involved replacing a coffee grinder on one boat overnight. I lived in the city where the Barient shop was (San Carlos) and felt fortunate to be needed to stop by occasionally and help with various gofer tasks. Had the engineers out on Baruna several times trying new items and taking various readings (2K - 3K pounds on the strain gage at the #1 jib clew in ~20 kts is one that sticks in memory).

Great fun / memories.

 

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31 minutes ago, SF Woody Sailor said:

Umm, are you sure you know what you are talking about?

Until the early 70's the CCA was the pre-eminent rule in the Americas (not just East Coast) and the RORC in Europe. As international regattas proliferated there came to be a need for a unified rule which was IOR. Broadly speaking, the IOR was formulated on the basis of the CCA approach to sail measurement and the RORC method of hull measurement. But both these aspects of a yacht’s rating under IOR borrowed aspects from both rules, while balancing the use of profile (CCA) and girth (RORC) in the measurement of length. IOR didn't really go places until about 1970 when the Mk II rule came along thanks to the International Technical Committee headed by Olin Stephens.

Except in your imagination the CCA was not just some pre-war relic involving acres of varnish and bronze fittings polished by uniformed deckhands. The rule also gave us Dorade and revolutionary yachts like the Lapworth 36 and its progeny the Cal 40.   

Did you notice I mentioned Dorade in the first line, which was built is 1929?  Pre-WWII.  And, in terms of of yacht design, the mid-1960's were definitely still post WWII.  

The boat that actually broke the back of the CCA was in fact the Cal 40 in the mid 1960's.  I sailed on two of the first few that showed up on the East Coast:  Mosbacher's Illusion and Adamson's Wings.  However, the Cal-40 owed very little to either the CCA (or IOR obviously).   That was kind of the point.

Having sailed on many CCA boats such as Blackwatch, Finisterre and Thunderhead and a few others, I can certainly attest to the acres of varnish and the green paste under the nails from the post-race bronze polish.  I did my time on east coast CCA yachts from 1964 (the very first Block Island Race Week, Bermuda races, the Vineyard Races and the NYYC Cruise.) until the early 70's when I moved west and found that the boats being built in Santa Cruz and New Zealand were way more fun, although we all spent time in IOR leadmines.

You are correct that the IOR used aspects of CCA in formulating the sail measurement.  

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23 minutes ago, Left Shift said:

Did you notice I mentioned Dorade in the first line, which was built is 1929?  Pre-WWII.  And, in terms of of yacht design, the mid-1960's were definitely still post WWII.  

The boat that actually broke the back of the CCA was in fact the Cal 40 in the mid 1960's.  I sailed on two of the first few that showed up on the East Coast:  Mosbacher's Illusion and Adamson's Wings.  However, the Cal-40 owed very little to either the CCA (or IOR obviously).   That was kind of the point.

Having sailed on many CCA boats such as Blackwatch, Finisterre and Thunderhead and a few others, I can certainly attest to the acres of varnish and the green paste under the nails from the post-race bronze polish.  I did my time on east coast CCA yachts from 1964 (the very first Block Island Race Week, Bermuda races, the Vineyard Races and the NYYC Cruise.) until the early 70's when I moved west and found that the boats being built in Santa Cruz and New Zealand were way more fun, although we all spent time in IOR leadmines.

You are correct that the IOR used aspects of CCA in formulating the sail measurement.  

Oh good, you DO know what you are talking about!

Your post made it sound as if CCA was responsible for the acres of varnish and polished bronze and uniforms, but all almost all yachts of that vintage (power or sail, racing or cruising) were like that so not CCA specific.

Agreed that the Lapworth 36 and its progeny the Cal 40 broke CCA. The CCA designs (and for that matter almost all pure CCA and IOR designs) were so optimized for upwind performance that it appears the world forgot that boats go downwind too, and that can be fun! Thank goodness for Lapworth and the West Coast revolution. 

Blackwatch really is a beautiful boat. Very good memories racing against her.

I have a Lapworth 36 so admit my bias up front. There were 71 built, and they were the largest offshore one design until the Cal 40.

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17 hours ago, zenmasterfred said:

Ooh, Awww, boat envy knob turned to 11!

Ted Turner chartered BOLERO for '62 SORC, then almost sank her off Hatteras on delivery south until CG put pumps aboard.  In the Lauderdale Race all was well until rounding Rebecca tower when the centerboard hit bottom and jammed up in the trunk.  During the confusion, Burke got forward of the mast into Jimmie Brown territory and hi-jacked the ice cream for a little treat with his mates. Jimmie Brown discovered the theft and told Mister Ted he was going on strike, no more food, until the culprit fessed up, which of course he didn't.....  Crisis every hour.

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3 hours ago, bridhb said:

Dang that butt end looks tortured below the waterline!

In the context of a planing hull - sure. 

But in terms of a displacement hull it allowed the sailing length to be extended while keeping LWL or in the IOR world - Rated Length - relatively short.  This underwater volume bulge worked better than a smooth run aft in IOR.

Laurie Davidson took it one step further with the crease in Waverider below which won the Half Ton Cup two years in a row.

Waverider shipping.jpg

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5 hours ago, ROADKILL666 said:

Butt she was fast.

No, she was slow, it's just that she was somewhat faster than what the rating rule thought she would be. 

But, like all IOR boat's of the era, she would be looking at modern 40'er's transoms through binoculars.  

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