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Me too.  A blooper gybe right outside the StFYC is a thing of beauty for the spectators on the roof.  Unless it's not.

I do remember a fine comment from a bow guy on Williwaw in the Admiral's Cup, 1981 I think.  Dennis Conner was driving, and he loved double-head rigs, and sometimes triple-head with two staysails.  Th

Bob Perry posted an article a couple of years back that I think is a really good overview of the IOR system.  Posting here with his permission.... Time to sit up straight and spit your gum out. W

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Mention of Bill MacKay & Billycan reminded me of a later, smaller boat of the same name, the Tony Castro designed Mini-Tonner Billycan 80 which Bill was looking to produce (not sure how many were sold)

 

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Have found a fair bit of Mini-Ton stuff while rummaging through the dog eared pile of Seahorses so will put something together if anyones interested.

Note you have 1980's Seahorse mags. Any chance you have the issue for Aug/Sept/Oct 1984 which had the results and review of the One Ton Cup for that year?

tks - 5*

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Thanks everyone for the mention. Most of this stuff never saw the light of day at the time and I hate the thought that it will just die in a draw. I post with the idea that it will bring a smile to someone's face.

 

I'll look for the Acadia stuff. Do you have a sail number. A scratch sheet with names and sail numbers would be a great help digging this stuff out.

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"Note you have 1980's Seahorse mags. Any chance you have the issue for Aug/Sept/Oct 1984 which had the results and review of the One Ton Cup for that year?"

 

 

Fivestar - the answer is yes, will try & find time today to do a scan of the 84 OTC report & post it.

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Paul Thanks for posting the dockside SORC photos; any more IOR nostalgia and they'd be sepia toned and you could publish a calendar......... :)

 

"Sorry to be mistaken about CHrtreuse in 84 at the OTC La Trinité sur Mer, but i do remember a brand new aluminium boat without paint was there, from UK :) Anybody remember she ?"

 

Can't remember if she went to the '84 OTC but a UK One Tonner I do recall was the experimental Rogers/Peterson 39 "Constance of Lymington" which had a pivoting keel. I don't think she was ever successful but I think she may have had a then very fashionable silver paint job, could this be the boat you were thinking of?

 

Looking at Chartreuse brings to mind another, later, David Thomas 'small' 1 Tonner, the Bolero 35.5. I recall spending a very unhappy night in the channel on one of these (Mezzanine/Barbarienne); lots of weather helm whatever you tried was my lasting impression.

 

& finally while we're thinking of David Thomas designs, can I make another appeal for any contemporary, photos, reports, reviews or recollections of his 3/4 Ton Liz of Lymington?

 

Surprisingly, not found any sailing pics of LIZ in Seahorse and Y.W (others are a bit too hard to grab at the moment)

Here is what I found, including one from the London B-S where she was displayed.

 

Recollections: Although I always very much liked that boat, I guess she will remind famous from dismasting in the middle-distance race of the 3/4 ton worlds.

5 boats went to support her in a rather tricky drifting situation and she was towed-back by one competitor (Machismo ?)

Redresses were applied by the jury and a lot of discussions on their respective weight followed, especially as - had Machismo been replaced 1 spot higher - the Cup winner would have been different.

 

There was a huge effort in the UK for that 3/4 ton, with near 10 boats built, the craze was on C-Flex ( Liz, Borsalino, Machismo, Mezzanine, Ragtime, Tessanda III) , C-flex was not too good of an experience in my eyes (too much putty-fairing from '76 and '77 experiences) and I have always wondered whether these boats were not on the heavy side (actual weight).

Hugh will for sure know more

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@ianw if you have mini ton stuff to post Id be interested in seeing and im sure a few of the owners in the mini ton class in uk might pop over for a read. i bought an early 90s mini late last year

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Moody Frog - many many thanks for digging out some stuff on Liz, really appreciated.

 

I hadn't appreciated Peter Webster displayed her at Earls Court, I guess on his Elizabethan stand. If anyone has a breakdown of her results for the 3/4 Ton Cup that year I'd be fascinated, any idea how her performance compared with that of her contemporaries.

 

I agree on the C-Flex, she dragged her mooring one year and ended up alongside another yacht chewing away at her aft stbd. quarter and with a mooring chain wrapped round that skeg, sawing it through, the C-Flex was a mess to repair with lots of filler evident. Many happy memories on her though don't recall too many trophies!

 

I will add Mini-Ton stuff to OTC stuff to search for and add to the thread asap.

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The 5th placed Stephen Jones "Smokey & The Choirboys", prototype for the production Smokey 25 hence the slight name change with a bit of gaffer tape to get past Rule 60

 

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There were a few production boats built although the transom had to be shortened to comply with the rule changes that year, best known is Eskymo, think the laminate may have been single skin where The Choirboys was foam sandwich.

 

There's another for sale in Newcastle which suggests that the boat was later marketed as a Farne 751, can anyone confirm this?

 

http://yachts.apolloduck.com/display.phtml?aid=234291

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Hiding behind Billycan 80 in the first post was the Scott Kaufman "The Sunshine Boys", prototype for the Sunshine 22. She was sailed at the cup by Reg White of Olympic tornado fame & the designer finishing 7th.

 

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Again I'm not sure how many production boats were built, they were offered in a number of materials with options to finish the boat yourself; I recall the builders (Starberry of Ipswich) had an attractive cold moulded version at the Southampton boat show that year & another has turned up on the mini ton revival website.

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Julian Everitt had a couple of modified Evolution 24s at the Cup; 'Glass Onion' & 'Shaved Fish' (both evolutions of an earlier boat 'Natural Magic') together with a stretched version of the production Extrovert 22, the famous 'Silver Dream Racer'

 

The Evolutions first:

 

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I think Glass Onion is still racing in the revived mini ton class, not sure where Shaved Fish is, was in Weymouth for a while. Both were successful in the '80s with Glass Onion winning the Round the Island one year iirc? Evolution later re-introduced the boat as a potential one design (GOOD - Glass Onion One Design!) & few were built.

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Thanks for the mini ton stuff. The Smokey and the Sunshine are still around on the South Coast of Uk and listed on the mini ton website. Glass Onions listed aswell. Discussion on the glass onion here with a bit of input from Julian Everitt.

 

http://minitonner.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=61

 

Mini are Still cheap affordable boats to buy and good little projects.

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& Silver Dream Racer

 

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(final picture taken some years later at Blackpool & 'borrowed' from the fascinating Shockwave 40 blog, as was one of the Choirboys pictures - many thanks!)

 

SDR finished 8th despite a retirement, both Evolutions suffered dismastings but were very competitive.

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Runner up was the Sciomachen 'Menestrello Pelegata'

 

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Borrowed from the Sciomachen website.....

 

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I do have scans of Andrew Stewarts report from the event but need to work at getting each page below the 1mb threshold.

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And finally a few other random minis from the same era:

 

The Ron Holland 'Honeymoon' 10th, which I think Seal yachts in Devon intended to put into production.

 

post-73936-0-85693700-1363021152_thumb.jpg

 

The Gary Mull designed 'Fire Spirit'

 

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Robert Weguelins 'Hissing Sid' - 9th

 

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One of the FMN production Rivettos, 'Sole Pizza Amore' - 4th

 

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& finally Andy Stewart's venerable Limbo 21 'Limray' which I recall racing against in Poole back in the day.

 

post-73936-0-89331100-1363021454_thumb.jpg

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Paul Thanks for posting the dockside SORC photos; any more IOR nostalgia and they'd be sepia toned and you could publish a calendar......... :)

 

"Sorry to be mistaken about CHrtreuse in 84 at the OTC La Trinité sur Mer, but i do remember a brand new aluminium boat without paint was there, from UK :) Anybody remember she ?"

 

Can't remember if she went to the '84 OTC but a UK One Tonner I do recall was the experimental Rogers/Peterson 39 "Constance of Lymington" which had a pivoting keel. I don't think she was ever successful but I think she may have had a then very fashionable silver paint job, could this be the boat you were thinking of?

 

Looking at Chartreuse brings to mind another, later, David Thomas 'small' 1 Tonner, the Bolero 35.5. I recall spending a very unhappy night in the channel on one of these (Mezzanine/Barbarienne); lots of weather helm whatever you tried was my lasting impression.

 

& finally while we're thinking of David Thomas designs, can I make another appeal for any contemporary, photos, reports, reviews or recollections of his 3/4 Ton Liz of Lymington?

 

Surprisingly, not found any sailing pics of LIZ in Seahorse and Y.W (others are a bit too hard to grab at the moment)

Here is what I found, including one from the London B-S where she was displayed.

 

Recollections: Although I always very much liked that boat, I guess she will remind famous from dismasting in the middle-distance race of the 3/4 ton worlds.

5 boats went to support her in a rather tricky drifting situation and she was towed-back by one competitor (Machismo ?)

Redresses were applied by the jury and a lot of discussions on their respective weight followed, especially as - had Machismo been replaced 1 spot higher - the Cup winner would have been different.

 

There was a huge effort in the UK for that 3/4 ton, with near 10 boats built, the craze was on C-Flex ( Liz, Borsalino, Machismo, Mezzanine, Ragtime, Tessanda III) , C-flex was not too good of an experience in my eyes (too much putty-fairing from '76 and '77 experiences) and I have always wondered whether these boats were not on the heavy side (actual weight).

Hugh will for sure know more

I did the 1983 season out of Hamble on a Thomas 1 tonner called "Rakau" - cold moulded timber IIRC. Any news on that boat?

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Paul Thanks for posting the dockside SORC photos; any more IOR nostalgia and they'd be sepia toned and you could publish a calendar......... :)

 

"Sorry to be mistaken about CHrtreuse in 84 at the OTC La Trinité sur Mer, but i do remember a brand new aluminium boat without paint was there, from UK :) Anybody remember she ?"

 

Can't remember if she went to the '84 OTC but a UK One Tonner I do recall was the experimental Rogers/Peterson 39 "Constance of Lymington" which had a pivoting keel. I don't think she was ever successful but I think she may have had a then very fashionable silver paint job, could this be the boat you were thinking of?

 

Looking at Chartreuse brings to mind another, later, David Thomas 'small' 1 Tonner, the Bolero 35.5. I recall spending a very unhappy night in the channel on one of these (Mezzanine/Barbarienne); lots of weather helm whatever you tried was my lasting impression.

 

& finally while we're thinking of David Thomas designs, can I make another appeal for any contemporary, photos, reports, reviews or recollections of his 3/4 Ton Liz of Lymington?

 

Surprisingly, not found any sailing pics of LIZ in Seahorse and Y.W (others are a bit too hard to grab at the moment)

Here is what I found, including one from the London B-S where she was displayed.

 

Recollections: Although I always very much liked that boat, I guess she will remind famous from dismasting in the middle-distance race of the 3/4 ton worlds.

5 boats went to support her in a rather tricky drifting situation and she was towed-back by one competitor (Machismo ?)

Redresses were applied by the jury and a lot of discussions on their respective weight followed, especially as - had Machismo been replaced 1 spot higher - the Cup winner would have been different.

 

There was a huge effort in the UK for that 3/4 ton, with near 10 boats built, the craze was on C-Flex ( Liz, Borsalino, Machismo, Mezzanine, Ragtime, Tessanda III) , C-flex was not too good of an experience in my eyes (too much putty-fairing from '76 and '77 experiences) and I have always wondered whether these boats were not on the heavy side (actual weight).

Hugh will for sure know more

I did the 1983 season out of Hamble on a Thomas 1 tonner called "Rakau" - cold moulded timber IIRC. Any news on that boat?

 

Rakau raced in FRance, Atlantic and Channel (French owner i think) around 85/90...

Then dont know ...

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Paul Thanks for posting the dockside SORC photos; any more IOR nostalgia and they'd be sepia toned and you could publish a calendar......... :)

 

"Sorry to be mistaken about CHrtreuse in 84 at the OTC La Trinité sur Mer, but i do remember a brand new aluminium boat without paint was there, from UK :) Anybody remember she ?"

 

Can't remember if she went to the '84 OTC but a UK One Tonner I do recall was the experimental Rogers/Peterson 39 "Constance of Lymington" which had a pivoting keel. I don't think she was ever successful but I think she may have had a then very fashionable silver paint job, could this be the boat you were thinking of?

 

Looking at Chartreuse brings to mind another, later, David Thomas 'small' 1 Tonner, the Bolero 35.5. I recall spending a very unhappy night in the channel on one of these (Mezzanine/Barbarienne); lots of weather helm whatever you tried was my lasting impression.

 

& finally while we're thinking of David Thomas designs, can I make another appeal for any contemporary, photos, reports, reviews or recollections of his 3/4 Ton Liz of Lymington?

 

Surprisingly, not found any sailing pics of LIZ in Seahorse and Y.W (others are a bit too hard to grab at the moment)

Here is what I found, including one from the London B-S where she was displayed.

 

Recollections: Although I always very much liked that boat, I guess she will remind famous from dismasting in the middle-distance race of the 3/4 ton worlds.

5 boats went to support her in a rather tricky drifting situation and she was towed-back by one competitor (Machismo ?)

Redresses were applied by the jury and a lot of discussions on their respective weight followed, especially as - had Machismo been replaced 1 spot higher - the Cup winner would have been different.

 

There was a huge effort in the UK for that 3/4 ton, with near 10 boats built, the craze was on C-Flex ( Liz, Borsalino, Machismo, Mezzanine, Ragtime, Tessanda III) , C-flex was not too good of an experience in my eyes (too much putty-fairing from '76 and '77 experiences) and I have always wondered whether these boats were not on the heavy side (actual weight).

Hugh will for sure know more

I did the 1983 season out of Hamble on a Thomas 1 tonner called "Rakau" - cold moulded timber IIRC. Any news on that boat?

 

Rakau raced in FRance, Atlantic and Channel (French owner i think) around 85/90...

Then dont know ...

 

The "Rakau" which was in France was a Stephen Jones design IIRC, could well be the one in Hamble as well.

(will dig out a pic at the next coffee-break)

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Paul Thanks for posting the dockside SORC photos; any more IOR nostalgia and they'd be sepia toned and you could publish a calendar......... :)

 

"Sorry to be mistaken about CHrtreuse in 84 at the OTC La Trinité sur Mer, but i do remember a brand new aluminium boat without paint was there, from UK :) Anybody remember she ?"

 

Can't remember if she went to the '84 OTC but a UK One Tonner I do recall was the experimental Rogers/Peterson 39 "Constance of Lymington" which had a pivoting keel. I don't think she was ever successful but I think she may have had a then very fashionable silver paint job, could this be the boat you were thinking of?

 

Looking at Chartreuse brings to mind another, later, David Thomas 'small' 1 Tonner, the Bolero 35.5. I recall spending a very unhappy night in the channel on one of these (Mezzanine/Barbarienne); lots of weather helm whatever you tried was my lasting impression.

 

& finally while we're thinking of David Thomas designs, can I make another appeal for any contemporary, photos, reports, reviews or recollections of his 3/4 Ton Liz of Lymington?

 

Surprisingly, not found any sailing pics of LIZ in Seahorse and Y.W (others are a bit too hard to grab at the moment)

Here is what I found, including one from the London B-S where she was displayed.

 

Recollections: Although I always very much liked that boat, I guess she will remind famous from dismasting in the middle-distance race of the 3/4 ton worlds.

5 boats went to support her in a rather tricky drifting situation and she was towed-back by one competitor (Machismo ?)

Redresses were applied by the jury and a lot of discussions on their respective weight followed, especially as - had Machismo been replaced 1 spot higher - the Cup winner would have been different.

 

There was a huge effort in the UK for that 3/4 ton, with near 10 boats built, the craze was on C-Flex ( Liz, Borsalino, Machismo, Mezzanine, Ragtime, Tessanda III) , C-flex was not too good of an experience in my eyes (too much putty-fairing from '76 and '77 experiences) and I have always wondered whether these boats were not on the heavy side (actual weight).

Hugh will for sure know more

I did the 1983 season out of Hamble on a Thomas 1 tonner called "Rakau" - cold moulded timber IIRC. Any news on that boat?

 

Rakau raced in FRance, Atlantic and Channel (French owner i think) around 85/90...

Then dont know ...

 

The "Rakau" which was in France was a Stephen Jones design IIRC, could well be the one in Hamble as well.

(will dig out a pic at the next coffee-break)

 

My bad, my answer was too quick ! AS a matter of fact i think "my" rakau was around 3/4 Ton size, nice varnish hull...

Tx again Moody to right me !

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There's a post (and picture) about Rakau on Shockwave40's site: http://shockwave40.b...-ior-yacht.html

 

Halfton - Yes, Rakau is unmistakeable with that beautiful marquetry transom!

 

She is definitely a Stephen Jones One Ton 27.5 design from 1981 & not a 3/4 - the only 'modern' wood/epoxy 3/4 tonners around the S Coast in the mid '80s that I can recall are the Jones 'Fiona' in around 86/87 which I think may originally have been started as a new 'Savage' and I think is now in Jersey, and also the Dubois 'Nausicaa' from about the same time.

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Fivestar - 1984 OTC Seahorse report.

 

My scanner is fairly crude so for now I'll post the main text section, results & design numbers. The rest of the report is about 4-5 pages of detailed dockside photos with annotation which will need to be broken down separately as & when I have the time!

 

post-73936-0-22106500-1363086765_thumb.jpg

 

post-73936-0-22857900-1363086782_thumb.jpg

 

I really, REALLY need to get on & do some work now!

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There's a post (and picture) about Rakau on Shockwave40's site: http://shockwave40.b...-ior-yacht.html

 

Halfton - Yes, Rakau is unmistakeable with that beautiful marquetry transom!

 

She is definitely a Stephen Jones One Ton 27.5 design from 1981 & not a 3/4 - the only 'modern' wood/epoxy 3/4 tonners around the S Coast in the mid '80s that I can recall are the Jones 'Fiona' in around 86/87 which I think may originally have been started as a new 'Savage' and I think is now in Jersey, and also the Dubois 'Nausicaa' from about the same time.

That's the one - My Bad - Stephen Jones it was. Sailed with (Brian?) Ferris, the owner, Kiwi he was and a great guy. Smart young whipper snapper from Sydney on the foredeck I was. Memories of sailing in snow for the first and only time somewhere mid-channel... and being off watch in a quarter berth that was so close to the deckhead that I couldn't roll over, and feeling the boat wipe out repeatedly downwind while I was wedged in there. It rolled like a pig. Memories also of a bzillion strings and adjustments. Complex beast.

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Fivestar - 1984 OTC Seahorse report.

 

My scanner is fairly crude so for now I'll post the main text section, results & design numbers. The rest of the report is about 4-5 pages of detailed dockside photos with annotation which will need to be broken down separately as & when I have the time!

 

post-73936-0-22106500-1363086765_thumb.jpg

 

post-73936-0-22857900-1363086782_thumb.jpg

 

I really, REALLY need to get on & do some work now!

IanW, Many thanks, this more than enough for me at least. - 5*
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There's a post (and picture) about Rakau on Shockwave40's site: http://shockwave40.b...-ior-yacht.html

 

Halfton - Yes, Rakau is unmistakeable with that beautiful marquetry transom!

 

She is definitely a Stephen Jones One Ton 27.5 design from 1981 & not a 3/4 - the only 'modern' wood/epoxy 3/4 tonners around the S Coast in the mid '80s that I can recall are the Jones 'Fiona' in around 86/87 which I think may originally have been started as a new 'Savage' and I think is now in Jersey, and also the Dubois 'Nausicaa' from about the same time.

That's the one - My Bad - Stephen Jones it was. Sailed with (Brian?) Ferris, the owner, Kiwi he was and a great guy. Smart young whipper snapper from Sydney on the foredeck I was. Memories of sailing in snow for the first and only time somewhere mid-channel... and being off watch in a quarter berth that was so close to the deckhead that I couldn't roll over, and feeling the boat wipe out repeatedly downwind while I was wedged in there. It rolled like a pig. Memories also of a bzillion strings and adjustments. Complex beast.

post-6361-0-76158100-1363094931_thumb.jpg

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Thanks for posting those photos of Rakau - that issue of Seahorse appears to have gone awol from my stash!

 

Thinking of the mystery wooden 3/4 that Chorus recalls, if it wasn't Rakau then could it have been 'Nausicaa III', '84 Dubois built by the Elephant Boatyard?

 

post-73936-0-24911300-1363096911_thumb.jpg

 

post-73936-0-86353500-1363096940_thumb.jpg

 

Or if it was a Jones then 'Smokey', formerly David Geaves 'Fiona of Burnham' and iirc originally in wood finish.

 

post-73936-0-48562300-1363097079_thumb.jpg

 

post-73936-0-65814300-1363097118.jpg

 

I have a memory that 'Fiona' was a project started by Geoff Kaye as a new 'Savage' but ill health forced him to pull out & it was picked up by Geaves.

 

The other Jones one-off 3/4 around at the time was 'Lion' but she was composite.

 

post-73936-0-40566500-1363097334_thumb.jpg

 

post-73936-0-67117200-1363097352_thumb.jpg

 

Looking back the 3/4 Ton scene remained quite vibrant through the '80s with the Cup in Torquay in '86; there were new one-offs from Humphreys, 'Decasol', 'Showdown' & 'Scenario Encore', the Castro 'Bateleur', Graham Walkers' Andrieu designed 'Indulgence V' (the winner in 86) plus the production RS34s, SJ35s, db1s & 2s etc.

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Thanks for posting those photos of Rakau - that issue of Seahorse appears to have gone awol from my stash!

 

Thinking of the mystery wooden 3/4 that Chorus recalls, if it wasn't Rakau then could it have been 'Nausicaa III', '84 Dubois built by the Elephant Boatyard?

 

post-73936-0-24911300-1363096911_thumb.jpg

 

post-73936-0-86353500-1363096940_thumb.jpg

 

Or if it was a Jones then 'Smokey', formerly David Geaves 'Fiona of Burnham' and iirc originally in wood finish.

 

post-73936-0-48562300-1363097079_thumb.jpg

 

post-73936-0-65814300-1363097118.jpg

 

I have a memory that 'Fiona' was a project started by Geoff Kaye as a new 'Savage' but ill health forced him to pull out & it was picked up by Geaves.

 

The other Jones one-off 3/4 around at the time was 'Lion' but she was composite.

 

post-73936-0-40566500-1363097334_thumb.jpg

 

post-73936-0-67117200-1363097352_thumb.jpg

 

Looking back the 3/4 Ton scene remained quite vibrant through the '80s with the Cup in Torquay in '86; there were new one-offs from Humphreys, 'Decasol', 'Showdown' & 'Scenario Encore', the Castro 'Bateleur', Graham Walkers' Andrieu designed 'Indulgence V' (the winner in 86) plus the production RS34s, SJ35s, db1s & 2s etc.

 

Nausica sailed then in France, Noirmoutiers, a long time between 95 to 2005, dont remember her new name, she was very caracteristic...and flashed my mind :)

Will look at old results of CVBC (Cercle de voile du bois de la chaise) in Noirmoutiers to get this new name...

Anybody would know where she is gone today ?

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ah memories! Many thanks

 

For a light displacement design it digs big holes in the water!

 

I was thinking exactly that when looking at the second B&W photograph.

She looked pretty much on the nose for reaching/downwind.

Bow sections not buoyant enough ?

Exaggerated bow down measurement trim ? (1st B&W pic with mention of the measurement trim waterline - with top-rudder out of the water - would tend to say that)

A tad too far in trying to make a large one-tonner ?

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Mention of Bill MacKay & Billycan reminded me of a later, smaller boat of the same name, the Tony Castro designed Mini-Tonner Billycan 80 which Bill was looking to produce (not sure how many were sold)

 

post-73936-0-90706100-1363000640_thumb.jpg

 

post-73936-0-58088900-1363000664_thumb.jpg

 

post-73936-0-63247400-1363000682_thumb.jpg

 

Have found a fair bit of Mini-Ton stuff while rummaging through the dog eared pile of Seahorses so will put something together if anyones interested.

 

Spoke to Bill today and told him about this discussion and it started a trip down memory lane..... :-)

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Mention of Bill MacKay & Billycan reminded me of a later, smaller boat of the same name, the Tony Castro designed Mini-Tonner Billycan 80 which Bill was looking to produce (not sure how many were sold)

 

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Have found a fair bit of Mini-Ton stuff while rummaging through the dog eared pile of Seahorses so will put something together if anyones interested.

 

Spoke to Bill today and told him about this discussion and it started a trip down memory lane..... :-)

 

There's a fair bit of nostalgia on here for these old boats; things may have moved on, quicker, lighter, faster, but many of us have great memories associated with mucking about in/with boats of the IOR era.

 

If you're in touch with Bill would it be possible to find out how many Ministars were built? or indeed the whereabouts of Billycan 80 - I'm sure the Mini Ton contingent would be keen to know what might be out there.

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Here's a shot/ad for Rodeo - the German women's One Ton Cupper that Ian mentioned a few days ago. And one of an English Three-Quarter Tonner Bathsheba, did a bit of sailing under JOG apparently.

 

I had an enquiry from the French owner of this SJ36 Three-Quarter Tonner recently, currently named White Rooster - does anyone have any history on her? He's keen to know if she figured in any Cup results.

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Mention of Bill MacKay & Billycan reminded me of a later, smaller boat of the same name, the Tony Castro designed Mini-Tonner Billycan 80 which Bill was looking to produce (not sure how many were sold)

 

post-73936-0-90706100-1363000640_thumb.jpg

 

post-73936-0-58088900-1363000664_thumb.jpg

 

post-73936-0-63247400-1363000682_thumb.jpg

 

Have found a fair bit of Mini-Ton stuff while rummaging through the dog eared pile of Seahorses so will put something together if anyones interested.

 

Spoke to Bill today and told him about this discussion and it started a trip down memory lane..... :-)

 

There's a fair bit of nostalgia on here for these old boats; things may have moved on, quicker, lighter, faster, but many of us have great memories associated with mucking about in/with boats of the IOR era.

 

If you're in touch with Bill would it be possible to find out how many Ministars were built? or indeed the whereabouts of Billycan 80 - I'm sure the Mini Ton contingent would be keen to know what might be out there.

 

I will ask him next week..

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Here's a shot/ad for Rodeo - the German women's One Ton Cupper that Ian mentioned a few days ago. And one of an English Three-Quarter Tonner Bathsheba, did a bit of sailing under JOG apparently.

 

I had an enquiry from the French owner of this SJ36 Three-Quarter Tonner recently, currently named White Rooster - does anyone have any history on her? He's keen to know if she figured in any Cup results.

 

Richard - Bathsheba was Sir Maurice Laings boat, built to the same design (#37) as the production MG RS34s by Lallows in Cowes. Scenario Act II for Alan Fitton & Seren Wib for Robs brother Bill were also 'one-off' boats to the same design.

 

From memory he did very well with her but don't have results to hand.

 

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I think that Hustler 36 was originally 'Halcyon' which was raced on the S. Coast (JOG, RORC etc) around 1980, certainly the flashes on the side are the same. I think Halcyon was then sold to the RORC and became the club boat 'Griffin' for a while. I came accross an ad for Griffin in Seahorse while looking for something else, if I find it again or pictures of Halcyon I will scan & post.

 

I don't recall her entering the 3/4 Ton Cup - the only 36 I'm aware of that entered in 1980 was 'Savage' which didn't feature at the front of the fleet; the db1's had just arrived though the cup was one by the Fauroux design Maligawa IV - I have the report and will add it to the list of things to scan if anyones interested.

 

Good find on Rodeo as well - the crew were certainly very charming at the 85 OTC in Poole!

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Love this old Admiral's Cup stuff!

 

Say... which boat was the first to use the "German" mainsheet system? It was right around this time. For some reason the name "Pinta" sticks in my mind but it could certainly been either of these two beauties:

 

 

 

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Container is now in a perfect shape moored at Andratx marina yacht club, Majorque, Baléares.

see attached photos

 

Container 1984 is actually sialing in Finland nowadays. We bought her from Belgium suring spring 2001 where seh was sold 1993. The boat is in good condition ta´king part on local club racing and also teh Finnish IRC Ranking series. WE have painted the hull dark blue some 4 years ago so the original blue/green Containr stripes are not visible anymore. Attached a few recent pictures one showing also the original paint job.

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Love this old Admiral's Cup stuff!

 

Say... which boat was the first to use the "German" mainsheet system? It was right around this time. For some reason the name "Pinta" sticks in my mind but it could certainly been either of these two beauties:

 

 

 

container.jpg

Container is now in a perfect shape moored at Andratx marina yacht club, Majorque, Baléares.

see attached photos

 

Container 1984 is actually sialing in Finland nowadays. We bought her from Belgium suring spring 2001 where seh was sold 1993. The boat is in good condition ta´king part on local club racing and also teh Finnish IRC Ranking series. WE have painted the hull dark blue some 4 years ago so the original blue/green Containr stripes are not visible anymore. Attached a few recent pictures one showing also the original paint job.

Tx to take care of this glorious IOR diva :)

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Hej Hande,

 

nice to see a good old IOR boat up in Finland, she looks like she is in good shape. Have you kept the full racing interior or has it been modified over the years?

 

//FOP

Hej FOP

The interior is modified with light teak plywood including saloon, galley, head, V-berth in front and two double berths in transom. There is added weight of about 350kg and the displacement is now 7650kg which is not that bad for a 43 foot boat. The deck gear is mostly original with runners and checkstays in place. The mast is stll stiff and checked continuosly.

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I reckon bloopers look cool too DickD, but then again I never had to sail with one!

 

Nice photos Paul, and great to see that one of Mr Jumpa, those varnished topsides are just gleaming!

 

Anyone know anything about Saracen featured above, looks like a sister to Downtown, and perhaps a replacement for Solent Saracen?

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Gumboots ^^^ two pole gibe ??!?!?

Dunno what the crewing standard of Gumboots German crew was, but what I can say is that dip-pole jibing only generalized in the mid-seventies, this side of the pond. As for us we learned it at the A/C '75, and were the only ones to use it in Class IV in France in the early days of the '76 season, did not take long for others to catch though. Before that it was two pole or the Sparlight contraption with lines going through the pole to both clews, one was slack the other one loose, to jibe you pulled on one and let the other one go, not too bad but with the line giving up you ended-up with the clew several inches from the pole-end when tight reaching.
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I reckon bloopers look cool too DickD, but then again I never had to sail with one!

I'm just getting involved in a project to restore an old Admirals Cupper to offshore trim and we found an old Blooper. We're dead keen to try it for fun.

Look for fun ! Trimming a blooper is a superb experience, one has to use both the sheet and the halyard to trim and shape it, I might have been wrong then, but always did as if both luff and leech where spin-luffs to be kept at the limit of flutter/fold.

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I reckon bloopers look cool too DickD, but then again I never had to sail with one!

 

Nice photos Paul, and great to see that one of Mr Jumpa, those varnished topsides are just gleaming!

 

Anyone know anything about Saracen featured above, looks like a sister to Downtown, and perhaps a replacement for Solent Saracen?

This was the 3rd build & campaign by Mc Carthy in '78, a centreboarder (lifting-keel ?) for the Onion Patch, turned keel-boat for the One-ton cup in Flensburg that year.
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Gumboots ^^^ two pole gibe ??!?!?

I can say is that dip-pole jibing only generalized in the mid-seventies, this side of the pond. As for us we learned it at the A/C '75, and were the only ones to use it in Class IV in France in the early days of the '76 season, did not take long for others to catch though.

 

Interesting! Nearly 20 years. That's quite a while for it to trickle down. Any idea why it took so long?

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Gumboots ^^^ two pole gibe ??!?!?

I can say is that dip-pole jibing only generalized in the mid-seventies, this side of the pond. As for us we learned it at the A/C '75, and were the only ones to use it in Class IV in France in the early days of the '76 season, did not take long for others to catch though.

 

Interesting! Nearly 20 years. That's quite a while for it to trickle down. Any idea why it took so long?

Which class are you thinking of when you say 20 years ? I Pretty well remember the late 60's Adm-cup pics with two-pole jibing. Things were long to come, the owners we started sailing with in the early 70's had been RORC racing in the 60s, some were pulling the spin down at night !! Then things trickled down from the larger classes, where I think they had been imported from the 12s. PS: when I say A/C 75 above: read Adm Cup. PPS: there is a very interesting vid on the web of the OZ (65 or 67) Admiral's Cup campaign (by Pathe I think) You can see them single-pole jibing, but not dip-pole !
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My understanding is that it was invented by the crew of Vim in the defender trials of the '58 America's Cup.

This patent from 66 mentions a "Vim jibe" in 58.

 

US3228372.pdf

Ah thanks ! Perfect description of the dip-pole jibe, and Windingo pole is what I called the Sparlight contraption ;)

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My understanding is that it was invented by the crew of Vim in the defender trials of the '58 America's Cup

 

Yeah... there's some disagreement about whether it was "invented" by Dick Bertram or Ted Hood, but it was part of Vim's bag of tricks.

 

I know that when I started racing big-boats on the west coast (1975), it was pretty common.

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Just (three hours ago) I bought a San Juan 24, I have found out they made over 1000 of these so it must be fairly well known. hoping to race it against my Northstar 727 and bring a little 1/4 ton racing to present day.

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Check at 5.53 on vid 1 ;) but...... we are talking ROC rule here .... not IOR

 

 

And for all you young pups who believe that old blokes couldn't hike, have a look at them outside the rails!!!

 

Fortunately this had been outlawed by the time I started offshore. I did plenty of it on a 12m and it ain't as safe or easy as it looks.

 

TUBBY

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Check at 5.53 on vid 1 ;) but...... we are talking ROC rule here .... not IOR

 

 

And for all you young pups who believe that old blokes couldn't hike, have a look at them outside the rails!!!

 

Fortunately this had been outlawed by the time I started offshore. I did plenty of it on a 12m and it ain't as safe or easy as it looks.

 

TUBBY

The Brits were on "Noryema" and "Quailo" and ......they had to be kept at bay by the rule-makers: this was the time when they tried trapezing offshore on one of the early S&S one-tonners "Roundabout" or "Clarionet" !
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I reckon bloopers look cool too DickD, but then again I never had to sail with one!

I'm just getting involved in a project to restore an old Admirals Cupper to offshore trim and we found an old Blooper. We're dead keen to try it for fun.

Look for fun ! Trimming a blooper is a superb experience, one has to use both the sheet and the halyard to trim and shape it, I might have been wrong then, but always did as if both luff and leech where spin-luffs to be kept at the limit of flutter/fold.

Yes am expecting many degrees of complexity...

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Just (three hours ago) I bought a San Juan 24, I have found out they made over 1000 of these so it must be fairly well known. hoping to race it against my Northstar 727 and bring a little 1/4 ton racing to present day.

 

Come race at the National YC -- Tuesday nights. 1825 first warning. We have a division with a San Juan 24 and some older .25s

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Looking about NIcholson 55 drawings (Hull and sail plan) : anyone would have stored any article or presentation of this boat from an old review or magazine ?

Some scan would be appreciated, i have an order for a half hull but cant start the job :)

 

TX to anarchists (UK ones....) by advance

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Sail design and materials have come on a long way. Been down visiting my mini ton this weekend. Came across a brown sail on board a few months back but never took it out until today to let it reveal its age and ugliness. The date stamp on the sail is older then the boat and if ever needs to be used I'm fuc***

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And through Wildwood I believe that's the good ship Cottontail

 

Wow. Good eye! 1978, that's just about the time the first Tomahawk hit the water, so I'm guessing Cottontail was no longer John's?

1st Tomahawk as a PCC waaaaay back in the day. I remember Cottontail being there because we had a family vacation up and down the east coast and part of it was Newport RI to see all the cool boats, including the blue one from back home (courtesy of Team Arens). I remember a huge California flag flying on the burgee halyard at the dock. You may be thinking of the red Tomahawk which came a long a little later (81ish maybe)

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Mention of Bill MacKay & Billycan reminded me of a later, smaller boat of the same name, the Tony Castro designed Mini-Tonner Billycan 80 which Bill was looking to produce (not sure how many were sold)

 

post-73936-0-90706100-1363000640_thumb.jpg

 

post-73936-0-58088900-1363000664_thumb.jpg

 

post-73936-0-63247400-1363000682_thumb.jpg

 

Have found a fair bit of Mini-Ton stuff while rummaging through the dog eared pile of Seahorses so will put something together if anyones interested.

 

Spoke to Bill today and told him about this discussion and it started a trip down memory lane..... :-)

 

There's a fair bit of nostalgia on here for these old boats; things may have moved on, quicker, lighter, faster, but many of us have great memories associated with mucking about in/with boats of the IOR era.

 

If you're in touch with Bill would it be possible to find out how many Ministars were built? or indeed the whereabouts of Billycan 80 - I'm sure the Mini Ton contingent would be keen to know what might be out there.

 

Bill said he thinks there are 4 out there, the first one built was a new Epoxy one, where some rowing skiff builders came up to show them how to use the new system, but that hull was cut out the mold with a chainsaw..... Not certain where Billycan is though.

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but...... we are talking ROC rule here .... not IOR

 

And for all you young pups who believe that old blokes couldn't hike, have a look at them outside the rails!!!

 

Fortunately this had been outlawed by the time I started offshore. I did plenty of it on a 12m and it ain't as safe or easy as it looks.

 

TUBBY

Love it! I race on Caprice of Huon quite regularly now in Sydney. The boat is in immaculate condition.

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Ecosse - thanks for asking, would be good to hear of any sightings of any of the 4 languishing unloved in a boatyard corner or up a muddy creek, they'd be a good addition to the rvival fleet. I do have a vague memory of one sinking during the Scottish Series (Tomatin as it was then) so that may be 3 left.

 

Some more Mini Ton stuff from the '80s

 

1st a brief report of the 1980 UK selection trials, some of the UK boats which later featured strongly at the cup such as Smokey & Billycan didn't finish very high up, also note the humble Sonata at 3rd!

 

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And the Mini Ton Cup itself at the Firth of Forth, won by Mr Bills Dog.

 

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To be continued...........

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Margaret Rintoul the Freers 50 is still on Lake Huron/St.Clair racing actively. Though big slow slugs, still winning it's fair share of races. I think there are a couple of anarchists here that race on it.

Margaret Rintoul IV is in Bay City MI. On the hard right next to Dolphin, Mull 54. We race the two old boats three times a week in summer. Its a lot of fun. They arnt fast But they are big.
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Who cares where they are. They were bitches of things to sail and stupid designs with the pinched in transoms, fat beams, bumps and all that.

 

Kialoa, Ondine and Windward Passage were not IOR. That's why they were so good, except for the blue pig.

 

Clearly you are a young fuck who was not around in the heydey of IOR. Kialoas III to V were IOR designs, and damned good ones. Ondines III to V were IOR as well, although they were not great designs and not nearly as successful as the Kialoas. Before you young shits spout off about the lame IOR designs, I should remind you that many, many international race records were held by these "pigs" for decades, beaten only by $25 million canting keel supermaxis (10 to 20' longer than their IOR counterparts) with full professional crews in ideal conditions. Most IOR Maxis were 78 to 82', had amaeteur goons as crew, and were things of beauty. Beasts to sail, especially downwind, but they were not glorified powerboats like the 30m supermaxis of today. Remember the days of 6 to 10 full on maxis at any given international regatta? Remember the days of a dozen or more 50's lining up against each other during the day and their BN's smoking weed and fucking whores all night long? No? I didn't think so. Piss off. Who really gives a shit if a leadmine goes 15 knots or 25? It's all slow anyways. What matters is how you achieve the speed you do, and the IOR boats did it in bling bling bitchin' style. Everybody, and I mean everybody, had fun in those days. Full stop.

 

absolutely!!!!

you nailed it....

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San Juan 24. Great light to moderate air boat. Tenderest production boat built in the 70's. Ranger 23 was the stiffest.

 

i owned a san juan 24 for several years....

loved the boat..

hated the seagull.....

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We called the Windingo type pole a trumpet pole on a new Cal 40 back in the mid 70's. Actually worked pretty good. It may even be easier in a blow now adays in an old IOR boat than sending a guy to the bow with lazy guys.

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