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$45,000.00 for 8mos. of work


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So I was watching the Democrats debating the other day and they keep bringing up how teachers are under paid in the U.S. and how this is a big part of the problem with our education system. Now I didn't go into this in depth, but the numbers I kept coming up with averaged out at about $45,000 per year. Most people only have to work 11 months if they're lucky and depending on vacation time. Since I'm self empolyed, if I don't work, I starve. Teachers however get 3 months off in the summer time and an additonal couple of weeks during the various religious holidays and breaks during the year (works out to about another month of off time). So I guess I'm asking, is this not decent pay for the time put in? Not to mention clean work environment, free parking, private break rooms, weekends off, pension plan and medical not to mention a union. If I'm incorrect, I'd like to know. Goin for my asbestos suit.

 

 

 

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Biggest problem with education in the US isn't the teachers salaries, it's the teachers UNIONS and the excessive administrative loads and internal time out of the classroom requirements that the Union contracts require.

 

That's from my sisters the teachers.

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If a teacher makes 45k in Iowa, Kansas, pasts of Tx, etc., or other areas of the country where the cost of living is at the lower end of the national spectrum, it may be a good deal for them providing all of the time off. In the Northeast, CA or any other high cost of living area, 45k isn't much compensation at all and all that free time goes into their summer job. Many teachers I know in the Northeast do seasonal jobs to compensate. They teach because they're driven, not because of the pay.

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Teachers, nurses, cops, military officers. We love and admire them collectively, but not enough, it seems to me, to pay them what many of us would accept to do the same job. Still, they keep finding them somewhere.

So you're saying that roughly $35.00 per hour is not alot of money. And we are lucky with the people we get?

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You forgot to mention a six and a half hour work day. On the other hand, I wouldn't want to have to deal with some of todays kids and their parents, and all the politically correct crap that teachers have to put up with. My nephew is a high school principal, by the way.

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You forgot to mention a six and a half hour work day. On the other hand, I wouldn't want to have to deal with some of todays kids and their parents, and all the politically correct crap that teachers have to put up with. My nephew is a high school principal, by the way.

Care to explain what you mean by that?

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You forgot to mention a six and a half hour work day. On the other hand, I wouldn't want to have to deal with some of todays kids and their parents, and all the politically correct crap that teachers have to put up with. My nephew is a high school principal, by the way.

 

 

Six & a half our work day? My parents were teachers; school was from 8:25 to 3:15 (7 hours), and my parents had many pre-am day meetings, after school meetings, etc. They were requiredon campus by 8:00. We rarely left the school grounds before 4:30 and never at 3:15, and if my dad was involved with coaching a team or some other after school extra then it was way later than that. Don't forget in-services before & after the school year too - usually a week on each side. Oh yeah, grading papers at night too...

 

Of course they were in Private schools, where you get more teacher commitment and less pay.

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So you're saying that roughly $35.00 per hour is not alot of money. And we are lucky with the people we get?

It is and it isn't.

 

1. I think teachers like the time off, but many would trade it for more money.

 

2. My own job is so rewarding, pays so well, and gives me so much freedom, that I'm sympathetic to almost anyone who does something hard for less. I have taught a bit (motivated adults) and it's not easy.

 

3. When it's my kid, especially when she was young and academically a bit shaky, I felt that these people were holding her life in their hands. I wanted to do anything I could for the good ones and murder the bad ones.

 

4. Yes, I think we're lucky on the whole.

 

Not a real answer, but that's where I'm coming from.

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Six & a half our work day? My parents were teachers; school was from 8:25 to 3:15 (7 hours), and my parents had many pre-am day meetings, after school meetings, etc. They were requiredon campus by 8:00. We rarely left the school grounds before 4:30 and never at 3:15, and if my dad was involved with coaching a team or some other after school extra then it was way later than that. Don't forget in-services before & after the school year too - usually a week on each side. Oh yeah, grading papers at night too...

 

Of course they were in Private schools, where you get more teacher commitment and less pay.

Did your parents have on campus housing? Were the extra-curriculars a part of the job discription when hired and did you get a private education for free or less monies than the students at this school. While my original question was about public schools, your post brings up entirely new questions.

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Six & a half our work day? My parents were teachers; school was from 8:25 to 3:15 (7 hours), and my parents had many pre-am day meetings, after school meetings, etc. They were requiredon campus by 8:00. We rarely left the school grounds before 4:30 and never at 3:15, and if my dad was involved with coaching a team or some other after school extra then it was way later than that. Don't forget in-services before & after the school year too - usually a week on each side. Oh yeah, grading papers at night too...

When was this and where? In my state, school is out at 2:30.

I went to high school, from 8:00 am to 12:30 pm. Freshmen went from 11:00 to 3:30 or 4;00.

When I was in high school, many years ago, the teachers would pass out test papers from a different class, read off the answers, and have us correct them, so they didn't have to do it at home in the evening. Wasted most of a class period correcting another classes test papers.

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It is and it isn't.

 

1. I think teachers like the time off, but many would trade it for more money.

 

2. My own job is so rewarding, pays so well, and gives me so much freedom, that I'm sympathetic to almost anyone who does something hard for less. I have taught a bit (motivated adults) and it's not easy.

 

3. When it's my kid, especially when she was young and academically a bit shaky, I felt that these people were holding her life in their hands. I wanted to do anything I could for the good ones and murder the bad ones.

 

4. Yes, I think we're lucky on the whole.

 

Not a real answer, but that's where I'm coming from.

 

Thanks, I can identify with those answers much better.

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How much money would you demand to deal with a classroom of 25 screaming kids for 30 hours a week for 40 weeks? Then the marking, planning, dealing with complaining parents and administration after hours.

 

My wife is a teacher in a private school in Canada. We worked it out, and figure that she is putting in (on average) around 55 hours weekly to the job during the academic year. In the summer, she does about three weeks worth of 6-7 hour days in preparation (she is dedicated to her student's experience). So, for the sake of argument, (55*40)+(30*3)= 2290 hours.

 

Compare that to average Joe, 40 hours over 48 weeks= 1920 hours

 

You be the judge as to if they are being paid fairly for their time (and perseverance with the kids).

 

(BTW...where is it that public school teachers work for 8 months? I know that in Ontario and California it is a 9.5 month academic year)

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I would say 45k/year/teacher is a bargain. This is the future of our world we're talking about.

 

Not only that, have you ever taught? The closest I've gotten is teaching sailing. You could not pay me enough to be a teacher. 8:30-3:00 with 25 snot nosed kids, then 2 hours of marking/preparation. Plus, you'd have to deal with 50 asshole parents. Count me out.

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So I was watching the Democrats debating the other day and they keep bringing up how teachers are under paid in the U.S. and how this is a big part of the problem with our education system. Now I didn't go into this in depth, but the numbers I kept coming up with averaged out at about $45,000 per year. Most people only have to work 11 months if they're lucky and depending on vacation time. Since I'm self empolyed, if I don't work, I starve. Teachers however get 3 months off in the summer time and an additonal couple of weeks during the various religious holidays and breaks during the year (works out to about another month of off time). So I guess I'm asking, is this not decent pay for the time put in? Not to mention clean work environment, free parking, private break rooms, weekends off, pension plan and medical not to mention a union. If I'm incorrect, I'd like to know. Goin for my asbestos suit.

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The school year goes deep into June and opens in the first week of Sept.

Most teachers get dragged in in late August for admin stuff, so they effectively

only get 8 weeks off or so. Is that 3 mos.? You don't know shit about teachers

if you think they only put in 6 1/2 a day, that much I assure you.

 

By your arguement, it can be assumed you think teachers are overpaid.

But what can they do in 8 weeks to earn more? Not many jobs out there

that pay for shit and only last 8 weeks. So they are set at the 45=55G range,

pretty much. Barely enough to live at the bottom end of middle class.

Try raising a family and make a house payment on that. But the bene's

are pretty good, and they do get about 5 weeks more off than average.

At the education level required to land the job, I have no problem with

it, as is, and lean more towards the other arguement, that they

should be paid a bit more for what they do.

 

 

Pay em' any less and you won't get any quality. It's borderline

right now, finding good people who will settle for 45-55K a year.

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How much money would you demand to deal with a classroom of 25 screaming kids for 30 hours a week for 40 weeks? Then the marking, planning, dealing with complaining parents and administration after hours.

 

My wife is a teacher in a private school in Canada. We worked it out, and figure that she is putting in (on average) around 55 hours weekly to the job during the academic year. In the summer, she does about three weeks worth of 6-7 hour days in preparation (she is dedicated to her student's experience). So, for the sake of argument, (55*40)+(30*3)= 2290 hours.

 

Compare that to average Joe, 40 hours over 48 weeks= 1920 hours

 

You be the judge as to if they are being paid fairly for their time (and perseverance with the kids).

 

(BTW...where is it that public school teachers work for 8 months? I know that in Ontario and California it is a 9.5 month academic year)

I'm thinkin the kids get out around June 1-10 and return around Sept 1-10 (3months) then there is Thanksgiving, xmas through the 1st of the year, Presidents,MLK, easter, misc. snow days here in the midwest, I know I'm missing some, but all and all, were talking almost four months, your mileage may vary. Even three months a year off is not bad for averaging $45,000 a year with perks. As for your wife and I'm not trying to be mean when I say this but, she wanted to go into the teaching profession and knew at the time of her education that the money was what it was.

So? Life is full of choices, correct? Still appears to be above average pay for the time and job.

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I would say 45k/year/teacher is a bargain. This is the future of our world we're talking about.

A teachers union talking point for sure!

 

Lessee, christmas week off, Mid Winter break, Spring Break, all the usual holidays, sick days, Good friday. Hmmm.

 

And if you have a masters degree, you get paid more, even for teaching kindergarten or first grade.

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The school year goes deep into June and opens in the first week of Sept.

Most teachers get dragged in in late August for admin stuff, so they effectively

only get 8 weeks off or so. Is that 3 mos.? You don't know shit about teachers

if you think they only put in 6 1/2 a day, that much I assure you.

By your arguement, it can be assumed you think teachers are overpaid.

But what can they do in 8 weeks to earn more? Not many jobs out there

that pay for shit and only last 8 weeks. So they are set at the 45=55G range,

pretty much. Barely enough to live at the bottom end of middle class.

Try raising a family and make a house payment on that. But the bene's

are pretty good, and they do get about 5 weeks more off than average.

At the education level required to land the job, I have no problem with

it, as is, and lean more towards the other arguement, that they

should be paid a bit more for what they do.

Pay em' any less and you won't get any quality. It's borderline

right now, finding good people who will settle for 45-55K a year.

I think your confusing me with someone else on this thread, I never said anything about a 6.5 hr day.

While not overpaid.....definately not underpaid.

If your the only person working in the family and living on this with children and house payments then I don't want you teaching anybody anything. Because your bad choices are gonna poison anyone you come in contact with.

In starting this thread I was just looking to learn to see if that kind of money for the time alotted and perks was a decent amount of pay. Would it be any differant if it was in a factory assembling widgets?

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..definately not underpaid.

If your the only person working in the family and living on this with children and house payments then I don't want you teaching anybody anything. Because your bad choices are gonna poison anyone you come in contact with.

In starting this thread I was just looking to learn to see if that kind of money for the time alotted and perks was a decent amount of pay. Would it be any differant if it was in a factory assembling widgets?

 

Teaching is a bad choice? Why don't you quit beating around the bush and tell us what you are really thinking.

 

btw, you were either a lousy student or had one hell of a lot of bad teachers. (There are spell checkers that will work on this forum)

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I think your confusing me with someone else on this thread, I never said anything about a 6.5 hr day.

While not overpaid.....definately not underpaid.

If your the only person working in the family and living on this with children and house payments then I don't want you teaching anybody anything. Because your bad choices are gonna poison anyone you come in contact with.

In starting this thread I was just looking to learn to see if that kind of money for the time alotted and perks was a decent amount of pay. Would it be any differant if it was in a factory assembling widgets?

 

Seems you don't believe being a teacher is a profession worthy of a

good wage. I call a good wage enough to support a family.

I beg to differ, but we are all entitled to our opinion.

 

But framing the argument in these terms I find to be disingenuous.

Think how you might feel if someone broke down your salary

in terms of how many hours you actually spent strapped in to the

seat, and then made a case out of it to say you were overpaid.

Not a very valid argument, now is it?

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Teaching is a bad choice? Why don't you quit beating around the bush and tell us what you are really thinking.

 

btw, you were either a lousy student or had one hell of a lot of bad teachers. (There are spell checkers that will work on this forum)

Wow sounds like I hit a nerve. Let me guess middle school teacher? :lol:

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I'm thinkin the kids get out around June 1-10 and return around Sept 1-10 (3months) then there is Thanksgiving, xmas through the 1st of the year, Presidents,MLK, easter, misc. snow days here in the midwest, I know I'm missing some, but all and all, were talking almost four months, your mileage may vary. Even three months a year off is not bad for averaging $45,000 a year with perks. As for your wife and I'm not trying to be mean when I say this but, she wanted to go into the teaching profession and knew at the time of her education that the money was what it was.

So? Life is full of choices, correct? Still appears to be above average pay for the time and job.

 

 

FWIW, we do not complain about her salary. We do appreciate the time off.

 

BUT, days or months aside, do you think that paying someone $45K for over 2200 hours of work is overpaying? Works out to $20/hr or so. Most babysitters around here get $8-10/hr, and eat you out of house and home.

 

Oh, and about the perks.....uh....decent health benefits are it buddy. No corporate retreats or Christmas bonuses. Sometimes a "thanks!" and the knowledge that you are helping to improve the world a bit.

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Wow sounds like I hit a nerve. Let me guess middle school teacher? :lol:

 

Nope - I do have a teaching degree and decided that it was too much for too little money. It is much more likely you find yourself intellectually unable to compete and want to blame your failings on your teachers.

 

Personally I had some teachers that were mediocre, many more that pushed me to excel and inspired me. And when a chem/petroleum engineer will start at high 5's right out of college, when a geologist with a masters starts in the low 6's I find your complaints ludicrous.

 

Teachers in Texas start in the low to mid 30s. Most teach because they care about children and the welfare of our society and put up with more bs than I ever could.

 

edit: Just thought I would mention that on a rare moment I agree with JT on the number of administrators in school. Recently in Houston all teachers received a bonus - the district superintendent (who makes around $400k/year) received a bonus much more than any teachers salary.

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Some of these posts make me want to puke.

 

I live in Los Angeles. Teacher’s salaries start at $35K. Cops start at 55K. Prison guards – forgetabout it - $70K plus to start. And the cops and the guards get overtime. Teachers work overtime but don’t get paid for it.

 

And teachers work! They don’t have time to sit in a cubicle posting on SA all day. If they’re in secondary education they’ve got to keep 35 or 40 kids engaged and alert for 6 or 7 hours straight – with a half hour lunch that may or may not include playground supervision.

 

Do any of you folks have kids? Could you keep them engaged for 6 or 7 hours a day – every day? That’s what teachers have to do. And they have to make test bench marks too.

 

When we start paying teachers like cops and prison guards maybe we’ll have less folks in prison and more productive citizens.

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Did your parents have on campus housing? Were the extra-curriculars a part of the job discription when hired and did you get a private education for free or less monies than the students at this school. While my original question was about public schools, your post brings up entirely new questions.

It was a day school, no housing.

 

Kid's education was included as a standard benefit for everyone that taught there; teachers without kids didn't get paid more. Starting salary for a 1st year teacher with little experience was something like $13-15K; teachers topped out at the high 20s/low 30s. I graduated in 1984, so this was almost 25 years ago, and in Cincinnati, not on the East coast so salaries are of course different AND lower back then. However, by 1991 with just a bachelors degree I was making more writing software than my father ever did as a teacher, even as a headmaster at another school.

 

As far as I know, things like coaching sports etc. were entirely voluntary and without extra compensation.

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Seems to me teaching (like medicine, according to some MD friends) is not as much fun as it used to be. Can't discipline the kids with out getting sued, same for hugging a crying kid. Lots of parents seem to treat the school like a babysitting service, working moms under pressure at their own jobs dropping sick kids off at school, government micromanaging. I don't think they really get the 3 full months of summer any more. I'm glad that there are people willing to do it for that money, because I sure as hell wouldn't. A good teacher can have a profound positive effect on many lives, and I'm sure not going to begrudge them some time off.

 

In private school, the teachers have a lot more flexibility and control, and parents who are paying big $ out of pocket are going to be pretty motivated to be sure their kids get the homework done. Maybe less money, but a nicer environment.

 

Kind of like anything else, there are good teachers and bad ones. The good ones are all underpaid, the bad ones are all overpaid. My kids have had both, and the stress level of having your kid in with a bad teacher is bizarre. When you get a good one, life seems so easy in comparison. Some of the good ones are still on our Christmas list 15 years after having my daughter.

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45 a year? Fuck.

 

I'm a carpenter, and I make more than that.

Soldiers, teachers, cops, nurses, EMTs... all underpaid IMO. Just didn't know it was that bad, I thought they made 60-70.

In California, cops, nurses, EMTs, firefighters, etc. can each pull down $70K base with a few years experience.

Teachers can also hit $70K.

 

But if anybody thinks $70K is enough for a comfortable lifestyle in Cali?

 

fuhgeddaabowdit.

 

 

.. a good contractor can make booku, here.

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So I was watching the Democrats debating the other day and they keep bringing up how teachers are under paid in the U.S. and how this is a big part of the problem with our education system. Now I didn't go into this in depth, but the numbers I kept coming up with averaged out at about $45,000 per year. Most people only have to work 11 months if they're lucky and depending on vacation time. Since I'm self empolyed, if I don't work, I starve. Teachers however get 3 months off in the summer time and an additonal couple of weeks during the various religious holidays and breaks during the year (works out to about another month of off time). So I guess I'm asking, is this not decent pay for the time put in? Not to mention clean work environment, free parking, private break rooms, weekends off, pension plan and medical not to mention a union. If I'm incorrect, I'd like to know. Goin for my asbestos suit.

Link

 

 

All depends on where they teach and what state your talking about. From a California stand point I would flame your ass with a torch for such an archaic understanding of what public school teachers do. I grew up with two parents who are teachers. One has retired the other continues to work. It always cracks me up when people talk about how good teachers have it.

 

Let me shed some light on on a teachers life. From August to June you do not take vacation outside of the standard school vacation days. Splitting out of work early on Friday to hit the slopes doesn't really cut it. Most teachers lucky enough to get a raise every 4 years or so of say 2-4% usually spend 8hrs or more per weekend grading papers and preparing lesson plans for the following week - this tends to involve a couple hours a few days a week after going home for the day also.

 

Summers - do they get 3 months off? No - by the time the teacher checks out for the summer they have spent a few weeks taking stock of the books - equipment - science teachers go through all their gear and materials checking for things they can no longer have in the class and expired chemicals etc. Many of the teachers that get raises spend a few weeks during the summer involved in some type of program or class for new teaching processes - getting additional credits which enable them to move up the payscale.

 

Also Teachers - spend 5 years in college to start - many states require that you have a Masters by your 3rd year. Pay and pay increases do not match the education cost.

 

Now lets add in the human factor. In California middle school and up teachers have a max of 177 students per day. If 5% of those kids can't read at grade level (assume your a science teacher) you have 5% of your kids capable of doing little to nothing in your class. Say another 4% are ADD or some other learning or behavioral dysfunction which creates another group of students that can not function at grade level. -- Now lets add the parent factor. Keep in mind that you are working from 7am to 4pm and spending say 5-8 hrs a week at home working on school work, calling parents etc and at least 5-6hrs each weekend grading papers - creating lesson plans etc. Now add meetings with parents who think little Johny is the best kid on earth having a hard time understanding why their child is not doing well. They have a hard time believeing the teacher who spends on average more time with the child than they do. In many cases parent Teacher meetings need to be held with multiple school officials present due to the fact that parents sue teachers for some of the most absurd things.

 

One last thing. In California starting teachers if they are lucky generally fall in the 35K range per year many start out closer to 40K a year but their salaries come from the same source so the 35K a year teacher gets two little raises over the next two years and the other teacher starting out at 40K gets no raise for two years.

 

One last thing - I highly suggest that any one with the view that you have of teaching - go get approved for Sub status and sub for teachers out sick for a full school year. I bet that you will quit and never make comments about teachers like the comment made above.

 

$30 $45K a year for 5yrs in college is nothing, shoot bus drivers make more than that. $80K a year for someone with 5 yrs of undergrad and another 2-4 years of a Masters program? - Personal assistants that work 8hrs a day and nothing more make $80K a year at law offices and Financial institutions. They don't deal with 170+ kids a day - angry parents or piles of papers to grade on their weekends.

 

 

No 45K a year sucks ass for being a teacher especially in places where the average house costs 500K and up.

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These stupid liberals. Education is so overrated. Why should we spend more on teachers? Do we really want our kids to grow up to be members of the educated liberal elite? I think not! Let the private schools pay their teachers well and charge tuition accordingly. We don't need poor kids getting a decent education and busting up the class structure. People need to be happy with their place in life.

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One more note. 30 years of teaching in the same school - 20 years of being the head of the science department. Reponsible for writing many grants over the years on his own time. Maxing out just about every point system for pay increases - my dad retired only because his wife continues to work -- he retired with a yearly income of 75K a year. Keep in mind teachers don't pay into Social Security they pay into a teachers fund which in some ways is pretty good but in other ways can be a big negative.

 

Im in my mid 30's have already surpassed my fathers income after 30 years of hard work. I get about the same number of days per year for vacation that he had- only I can schedule to take mine any time of the year. My company matches 401K contributions - I pay into Social Security not that it will be around by the time I can use it but still it could be a source of retirement income. I probably work about the same number of hours he did only if I choose - I can forego any weekend work. I don't deal with angry parents -nor do I deal with 170+ kids every day. I actually can take lunch breaks with customers or coworkers vs eat a sack lunch at my desk.

 

Oh and when I change jobs I'll probably increase my income 20-30%.

 

Teachers are hero's - they get paid shit - treated like shit - have shitty work conditions and statistics show that many die before they reach 65yrs old. Those that don't many have throat cancer - many get knee and hip replacements from all the years of standing on hard floors.. Shall I continue?

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U20buy2, Word.

 

FYI in my state they pay Social Security (thought by law we all do).

 

 

California Teachers do not - which happens to be one of the big issues given they have no choice on the CA teachers fund which has its own advantages and disadvantages. The only Social Security my parents have paid were on non teaching jobs and given they were spending most their summers working on school stuff they contributed less to Social Security than most College kids today.

 

As for second jobs - many of the family friends/teachers I grew up with would do side jobs - construction etc when they could to make a little extra money. My dad did Drivers training in the car before school usually 4am-6am a few days a week - often a few hours on the weekends that would pay an extra $600-$1000 every few months. He coached Basket Ball for 28 years which paid about $600 to $1000 a season. We only had about two weeks every summer for a family vacation and since we didn't have much money we usually spent our two weeks camping 2-4hrs from home. My parents made two trips to Hawaii. Since my brother and I have been out on our own they have made two more trips to Hawaii - keep in mind we live in California. Hawaii isn't exactly a big trip.

 

Very rarely did my dad come home before 7:30pm and he was usually out of the house by 6am and never later than 7am.

My mom is usually at school by 7am also. Might be different with science teachers given most take great pride in creative activities hands on stuff that takes time to get set up - which is why they were always at school earlier than many of the other subjects/teachers.

 

We have a friend in Michigan she had to get her masters by her 3rd year. By pure luck and right timing as a fairly recent teacher she was selected to be a principal. She makes decent money but she works even more hours than teachers given she needs to be seen at all school events etc. Her husband is working part time right now to take care of their two young kids - he makes more than she does working part time as an Archatect. They have a custom 3bd 3 bath house with full basement on a huge lot which cost them $300K. They are doing well! -- Same situation in California, Seattle, LA, NY, Denver you name any resonably large city they would be struggling and would have a $300K condo vs really nice house.

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One more note. 30 years of teaching in the same school - 20 years of being the head of the science department. Reponsible for writing many grants over the years on his own time. Maxing out just about every point system for pay increases - my dad retired only because his wife continues to work -- he retired with a yearly income of 75K a year. Keep in mind teachers don't pay into Social Security they pay into a teachers fund which in some ways is pretty good but in other ways can be a big negative.

 

Im in my mid 30's have already surpassed my fathers income after 30 years of hard work. I get about the same number of days per year for vacation that he had- only I can schedule to take mine any time of the year. My company matches 401K contributions - I pay into Social Security not that it will be around by the time I can use it but still it could be a source of retirement income. I probably work about the same number of hours he did only if I choose - I can forego any weekend work. I don't deal with angry parents -nor do I deal with 170+ kids every day. I actually can take lunch breaks with customers or coworkers vs eat a sack lunch at my desk.

 

Oh and when I change jobs I'll probably increase my income 20-30%.

 

Teachers are hero's - they get paid shit - treated like shit - have shitty work conditions and statistics show that many die before they reach 65yrs old. Those that don't many have throat cancer - many get knee and hip replacements from all the years of standing on hard floors.. Shall I continue?

 

kinda says it all. Don't forget the 100% paid health care in retirement too.

 

compare that to average jo factory worker, construction worker, etc.

 

considering that 50% or more of the education comes from the student reading a book.

 

 

and as for nurses (rn).....they make 75-80k a year.

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kinda says it all. Don't forget the 100% paid health care in retirement too.

 

compare that to average jo factory worker, construction worker, etc.

 

considering that 50% or more of the education comes from the student reading a book.

and as for nurses (rn).....they make 75-80k a year.

 

 

100% is not true - coverage starts at 65 and its not 100% but comparable to what I get through my company which has 85,000 employees

 

The guy that bolts the bumpers to the Toyota Tacoma's in Fremont California works 35 hr weeks - makes $80K+ overtime. He didn't need 5 years of school nor does he pay for 5 years of school. Doesn't spend his evenings grading papers.

 

 

One other thing - find a top level nurse that runs a department at a hospital that has 30 years of nursing and certs on their ticket - I bet you your first born they make way - way more than 75-80K a year in California.

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Back in 1990 a nurse with a anesthesiologist ticket easily cleared 100K a year and had fixed allowable work hours. I know this because one of our good family friends was one and retired many years ago. A cousin's wife who is just starting out and has some basic tickets - Xray tech etc makes close to 70K a year.

 

So what I'm guessing is the people that are posting how teachers have it so good on this thread - haven't spent 5 years in college - don't make shit for money and have so little sense of what people really make they think $40K a year is like millionair money. LOL -- You dudes need to open your frigin eyes to the world and think bigger or your missing the big money bus.

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One more note. 30 years of teaching in the same school - 20 years of being the head of the science department. Reponsible for writing many grants over the years on his own time. Maxing out just about every point system for pay increases - my dad retired only because his wife continues to work -- he retired with a yearly income of 75K a year. Keep in mind teachers don't pay into Social Security they pay into a teachers fund which in some ways is pretty good but in other ways can be a big negative.

 

 

Can you clear up a question. Did your father retire with $75K/year in pension, or was he making $75K/year when he retired. I assume it's the latter, but jo-mama bolded it, leading me to think he considers it a pension, when he said "kinda says it all."

 

Thanks

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Can you clear up a question. Did your father retire with $75K/year in pension, or was he making $75K/year when he retired. I assume it's the latter, but jo-mama bolded it, leading me to think he considers it a pension, when he said "kinda says it all."

 

Thanks

 

 

He was at 75K a year when he retired - his pension is lets just say much smaller than that. His only saving grace is that he's been smart with the stock market and has managed to get good returns on his small investment.

 

Regarding the health coverage thing - for most Teachers there is a sizable gap between the time they would normally retire and when the health coverage kicks in. Sort of your indirect golden hand cuffs only this handcuff costs you in both approaches just more or less pending how long you decide to work. Statistics show that teachers that work beyond 65 have a very high rate of not making it to 70. A large portion of their contributions do not get paid out to family - unlike most of us our families get whats left of our estate and investments.

 

For a while - what some teachers were doing is retiring - then returning to work as full time subs and making double money till their health coverage kicked in - but even that has limits on it now - for instance if you do that - the teachers fund which pays out your retirement will dock your base level number given the income you would have paid into the fund had you no retired and returned.. So in most cases this is nolonger a smart option - many stay on or many retire and leave the career all together.

 

Another reference - my little brother 4yrs in College Degree in Landscape Archetecture - started working right out of college making just shy of 40K a year. His buddy and good friend for years - did a 5th year - worked part time doing his student teaching started working after his 5th year as a teacher. Started at 35K that was in 2001. My little brother is now working with large land developers - is incharge of huge housing tract developments and large private development projects as a planner easily makes double what he made in 2001 with plenty more upside left - gets bonuses - for a number of years had free food at work. His good friend who is a teacher in our home town has seen a 4% increase in pay since starting and is doing the same thing he was in 2001. My brother owns a condo and is eyeing addtional property the teacher just bought a fixer upper.

 

My brother is debating about starting his own company but might take a City planner role for a bit to learn the other side of the biz before starting his own company. Either way his income will exceed 100K a year. My brother is 27 years old.

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I'm not going to bash teachers, but -

 

177 kids x say $10k/student = $1.77 million. These kids go to what - 6 periods per day? 6 teachers making $85k= $510k. Where does the other $1.2 million go?

 

 

Simple - District office - assistants - pay for Administrative roles - car allowances - paying off contracts of poorly performing District officials asked to leave - maintance - bus drivers. Special needs programs etc. My mom was head of a science department in a middle school in a rough part of town the past few years she had 6 science teachers - she had a budget of $400 for 6 teachers to buy supplies for science. Anyone replace a bulb on an over head projector - fix two broken microscopes broken by kids jerking off? You end up digging into your own wallet so you can actually do your job every day. When is the last time any of you paid $10 for a tool you needed at work - and left it at work with no reinbursment?

 

When is the last time you went to Walmart in August and spent $200 of your own money on basic school supplies so when little Johny comes to class for the 80th time 1/2 way through the school year with no pencil or paper to write with - you can hand him a pencil and tell him to sit down and shut up?

 

Better yet for those of you with kids do you drop $50 on paper and pencils every August? I bet some do and some of you haven't even thought of it?

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He was at 75K a year when he retired - his pension is lets just say much smaller than that. His only saving grace is that he's been smart with the stock market and has managed to get good returns on his small investment.

 

Regarding the health coverage thing - for most Teachers there is a sizable gap between the time they would normally retire and when the health coverage kicks in. Sort of your indirect golden hand cuffs only this handcuff costs you in both approaches just more or less pending how long you decide to work. Statistics show that teachers that work beyond 65 have a very high rate of not making it to 70. A large portion of their contributions do not get paid out to family - unlike most of us our families get whats left of our estate and investments.

 

For a while - what some teachers were doing is retiring - then returning to work as full time subs and making double money till their health coverage kicked in - but even that has limits on it now - for instance if you do that - the teachers fund which pays out your retirement will dock your base level number given the income you would have paid into the fund had you no retired and returned.. So in most cases this is nolonger a smart option - many stay on or many retire and leave the career all together.

 

Another reference - my little brother 4yrs in College Degree in Landscape Archetecture - started working right out of college making just shy of 40K a year. His buddy and good friend for years - did a 5th year - worked part time doing his student teaching started working after his 5th year as a teacher. Started at 35K that was in 2001. My little brother is now working with large land developers - is incharge of huge housing tract developments and large private development projects as a planner easily makes double what he made in 2001 with plenty more upside left - gets bonuses - for a number of years had free food at work. His good friend who is a teacher in our home town has seen a 4% increase in pay since starting and is doing the same thing he was in 2001. My brother owns a condo and is eyeing addtional property the teacher just bought a fixer upper.

 

My brother is debating about starting his own company but might take a City planner role for a bit to learn the other side of the biz before starting his own company. Either way his income will exceed 100K a year. My brother is 27 years old.

 

danny, the world needs ditch diggers too........

 

street smart guy makes big cash.... did he learn that in high school? doubt it.

 

thanks for making my point.

 

perhaps the teachers would like to adopt the chinese way of teaching.

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danny, the world needs ditch diggers too........

 

street smart guy makes big cash.... did he learn that in high school? doubt it.

 

thanks for making my point.

 

perhaps the teachers would like to adopt the chinese way of teaching.

 

 

Huh? Could you be any more vague?

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Hey Flaps, teachers don't get paid for the summer off you plonker. We have our 9 month pay spread throughout the year. In some districts you can pick a 9 month salary. You can spot these teachers in the summer waiting tables or painting houses.

 

I would love for you to walk a mile in my moccasins. It is incredibly rewarding work. From your slightly bitter tone it sounds like you make money, but don't have an intrinsicly pleasing job. Do you sell insurance or own a couple of liquor stores? Balance the books in a widget factory?

 

As for the evilness of teacher's unions, it's like this: When a mere accusation from a 14 yr old could ruin your career, you would be a total dumbshit to rely on the school administrators to be your only safety net. They are easily cowed by the threat of a law suit.

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That turns out to be $67,500 per year. If you live in San Diego, that's close to poverty. AND you have to deal with "Other People Kids". Should be more like 80K on a annualized basis and with performance metrics in place to make sure the teachers actually teach.

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That turns out to be $67,500 per year. If you live in San Diego, that's close to poverty. AND you have to deal with "Other People Kids". Should be more like 80K on a annualized basis and with performance metrics in place to make sure the teachers actually teach.

 

Interesting point, but how do you measure teaching? By how much the students learn? I hope not.

 

Imagine the teacher who has AP classes. His students could make him look like a genius. Conversely, a bunch of kids that don't study, don't care, or don't show up could make a teacher look like he isn't doing his job. And teachers can't fire their students.

 

Do you know what is great about public education? Everyone is entitled to one.

Do you know what sucks about public education? Everyone is entitled to one.

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Biggest problem with education in the US isn't the teachers salaries, it's the teachers UNIONS and the excessive administrative loads and internal time out of the classroom requirements that the Union contracts require.

 

That's from my sisters the teachers.

 

 

Lord, lord, lord, what am I going to do with you?

 

The problem has nothing to do with pay or bennies. The problem today is that the public sector has figured out there is no way to fund Pension Plans, and have all moved over to Self Directed Plans. But the foolish politicians keep going the Pension route for public employees. And most plans across the nation are well under-funded. When are we citizens who have no guarantees for our retirement (401K) going to insist on getting rid of pensions in the public sector, and let them take 15%-20% of their salaries right off the top and put them in 401K plans? When are we going to stop offering retirement at age 50 with a full pension ahead of them?

 

Pensions are a noose for the private sector and have bankrupted many companies. And the difference in the public sector is what?

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Lord, lord, lord, what am I going to do with you?

 

The problem has nothing to do with pay or bennies. The problem today is that the public sector has figured out there is no way to fund Pension Plans, and have all moved over to Self Directed Plans. But the foolish politicians keep going the Pension route for public employees. And most plans across the nation are well under-funded. When are we citizens who have no guarantees for our retirement (401K) going to insist on getting rid of pensions in the public sector, and let them take 15%-20% of their salaries right off the top and put them in 401K plans? When are we going to stop offering retirement at age 50 with a full pension ahead of them?

 

Pensions are a noose for the private sector and have bankrupted many companies. And the difference in the public sector is what?

take away pensions and no one will want these jobs.

 

then what?

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Interesting point, but how do you measure teaching? By how much the students learn? I hope not.

 

Imagine the teacher who has AP classes. His students could make him look like a genius. Conversely, a bunch of kids that don't study, don't care, or don't show up could make a teacher look like he isn't doing his job. And teachers can't fire their students.

 

Do you know what is great about public education? Everyone is entitled to one.

Do you know what sucks about public education? Everyone is entitled to one.

 

Great story! -- Ben and Jerry's Ice cream the two dudes Ben & Jerry visited my parents school district and met with the teachers. They were explaining how they make their ice cream and how it relates to teaching. They only take the best/highest quality ingredients they can find then they spend alot of time making sure they get the right final product.

 

A teacher spoke up about 1/2 way through and said - what do you do with the bad ingredients? They responded with - we simply toss them out you don't want to have bad ingredients messing up your product do you?

 

The teacher responded -- Hey thats what we are doing wrong! - We need to toss out the under performers and the non english speakers - the non readers -- the kids with parents that suck ass -- toss em out. Hey then our "product" will be great.

 

More than a few teachers walked out of the meeting at that point and good ol Ben & Jerry didn't know what to say.

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Great story! -- Ben and Jerry's Ice cream the two dudes Ben & Jerry visited my parents school district and met with the teachers. They were explaining how they make their ice cream and how it relates to teaching. They only take the best/highest quality ingredients they can find then they spend alot of time making sure they get the right final product.

 

A teacher spoke up about 1/2 way through and said - what do you do with the bad ingredients? They responded with - we simply toss them out you don't want to have bad ingredients messing up your product do you?

 

The teacher responded -- Hey thats what we are doing wrong! - We need to toss out the under performers and the non english speakers - the non readers -- the kids with parents that suck ass -- toss em out. Hey then our "product" will be great.

 

More than a few teachers walked out of the meeting at that point and good ol Ben & Jerry didn't know what to say.

 

who said life is fair?

 

besides, bad ingredients (waste) is recycled into something else.....

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I skipped to the bottom from about post #20, so maybe this point has been made, or maybe the thread is off in a dozen different directions, but...

 

The idea behind offering teachers more money isn't whether or not they are being paid a fair amount (do none of us think that getting paid a little more would be fair), the reason would be that you could choose from a higher quality pool of talent. In an ideal world anyway. Your results may vary.

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who said life is fair?

 

besides, bad ingredients (waste) is recycled into something else.....

 

 

If your kids gett tossed out of 5th grade and your paying thousands of dollars a year in taxes some of which is used for paying for schools - wouldn't you be a little miffed your kid was tossed?

 

Double edge to this issue. Having different types of schools - trade vs academic is an interesting topic but the sad part is there are not enough resources to do this.

 

Another catch 22 -- the no Child left behind thing. Put on the teacher hat for a moment. You have 36 kids in one class you have been working your ass off to teach to the required state and Gov mandated content to cover all that is required you have had to move at a pace that most but not all the kids can handle. Some of the kids are special needs kids various learning disabilities etc. All - I repeat all of those kids are required to take the same standardized test - even the special needs kids. They are all measured with the same yardstick. There is nothing you can do if 10 of those kids had zero chances of doing well on the test simply because they are way - way behind where they should be. Given that you have no flexability due to mandated content you personally had no way to add special content that might help those 10 kids grasp the concept.

 

Ok now lets assume your wearing the teacher hat in a low income area with 90% of the kids fitting some type of disadvantage be it learning - reading and writing - lack of help at home - no home - socially disfunctional etc. Your kids are still being measured with the same yard stick as your buddy across town with the priviledged kids who read above their grade level have parents that get involved with the kids school work etc. If your performance as a teacher is judged by the kids sitting in front of you - you have no prayer of even lasting a full school year before getting canned.

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If your kids gett tossed out of 5th grade and your paying thousands of dollars a year in taxes some of which is used for paying for schools - wouldn't you be a little miffed your kid was tossed?

 

Double edge to this issue. Having different types of schools - trade vs academic is an interesting topic but the sad part is there are not enough resources to do this.

 

Another catch 22 -- the no Child left behind thing. Put on the teacher hat for a moment. You have 36 kids in one class you have been working your ass off to teach to the required state and Gov mandated content to cover all that is required you have had to move at a pace that most but not all the kids can handle. Some of the kids are special needs kids various learning disabilities etc. All - I repeat all of those kids are required to take the same standardized test - even the special needs kids. They are all measured with the same yardstick. There is nothing you can do if 10 of those kids had zero chances of doing well on the test simply because they are way - way behind where they should be. Given that you have no flexability due to mandated content you personally had no way to add special content that might help those 10 kids grasp the concept.

 

Ok now lets assume your wearing the teacher hat in a low income area with 90% of the kids fitting some type of disadvantage be it learning - reading and writing - lack of help at home - no home - socially disfunctional etc. Your kids are still being measured with the same yard stick as your buddy across town with the priviledged kids who read above their grade level have parents that get involved with the kids school work etc. If your performance as a teacher is judged by the kids sitting in front of you - you have no prayer of even lasting a full school year before getting canned.

 

 

it's your money.

 

vote to change the system.

 

perhaps, instead of paying it to the gov, why not you pay it direct to whomever you choose to have school your kids. The rich do it all the time, the politicians too. So why not you.

 

home school,

boarding school,

military school,

any religion school,

private school,

public school,

corp run school,

chinese run school,

school of hard knocks,

etc.

 

 

you decide where you want to spend your cash.

 

vote for that.

vote to keep your money.

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it's your money.

 

vote to change the system.

 

perhaps, instead of paying it to the gov, why not you pay it direct to whomever you choose to have school your kids. The rich do it all the time, the politicians too. So why not you.

 

home school,

boarding school,

military school,

any religion school,

private school,

public school,

corp run school,

chinese run school,

school of hard knocks,

etc.

you decide where you want to spend your cash.

 

vote for that.

vote to keep your money.

 

Faulty thought process - when is the last time you paid your taxes and there was box that asked if you would like to pay your $3000 for local public schools or private institutions? One other thing your $3000 will seem like a really cheap joke after getting the bill for one of those private schools. Pre-school in San francisco - private program top notch $25,000 a year for one kid. PRESCHOOL!!! for christ sakes!! The cardboard bricks in the toy box aren't even painted with gold flake paint.

 

Next....

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Faulty thought process - when is the last time you paid your taxes and there was box that asked if you would like to pay your $3000 for local public schools or private institutions? One other thing your $3000 will seem like a really cheap joke after getting the bill for one of those private schools. Pre-school in San francisco - private program top notch $25,000 a year for one kid. PRESCHOOL!!! for christ sakes!! The cardboard bricks in the toy box aren't even painted with gold flake paint.

 

Next....

 

you have conceded defeat without trying.

 

its your money...............yours not theres........yours.....

 

 

fire up a nader video.....

 

become the mikey moore of school system reform

 

 

worked for welfare reform when everybody said it would be a great disaster......just ask bill

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you have conceded defeat without trying.

 

its your money...............yours not theres........yours.....

fire up a nader video.....

 

become the mikey moore of school system reform

worked for welfare reform when everybody said it would be a great disaster......just ask bill

 

 

Reform starts with taking back the power that teachers lost a long time ago. That will never happen. Taking my money out of the public school fund and giving it to any number of alternative schools with no oversight - controls etc will not work either.

 

By the way I met a mother of 4 with no college experience - that has successfully opened up her own home schooling program she has managed to get various grants etc to help pay for things. Her goal - as long as the students meet the minimum requirements its all good! -- Would you like to be paying for that? You might as well give your hard earned money to a bum and tell him to use it wisely.

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Pre-school in San francisco - private program top notch $25,000 a year for one kid. PRESCHOOL!!! for christ sakes!!

Basic childcare in SF runs $12-14,000 a yr. That's BASIC care in someone's home with minimal care-giver qualifications.

 

 

Could you frikkin imagine if all these "break-down-public-education" numbnuts had to pay real tuition for each of their kids?

 

So...

Joe Average with 2.4 kids will have to come up with $30-36k a year just to send their kids to KINDERGARTEN!!???

 

Nascar Dads would be screaming. SUV-Soccer Moms sobbing in their double lattes.

 

The freaking Repubs would flipflop so fast on public education as to snap your neck.

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Reform starts with taking back the power that teachers lost a long time ago. That will never happen. Taking my money out of the public school fund and giving it to any number of alternative schools with no oversight - controls etc will not work either.

 

By the way I met a mother of 4 with no college experience - that has successfully opened up her own home schooling program she has managed to get various grants etc to help pay for things. Her goal - as long as the students meet the minimum requirements its all good! -- Would you like to be paying for that? You might as well give your hard earned money to a bum and tell him to use it wisely.

 

teachers lost power?.......... their union is rather large and doing just fine these days.

 

you probably know which car is better than another..right.

 

but you don't which school is better than another...right? sad.

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Basic childcare in SF runs $12-14,000 a yr. That's BASIC care in someone's home with minimal care-giver qualifications.

Could you frikkin imagine if all these "break-down-public-education" numbnuts had to pay real tuition for each of their kids?

 

So...

Joe Average with 2.4 kids will have to come up with $30-36k a year just to send their kids to KINDERGARTEN!!???

 

Nascar Dads would be screaming. SUV-Soccer Moms sobbing in their double lattes.

 

The freaking Repubs would flipflop so fast on public education as to snap your neck.

 

http://www.gkdschool.com/management.html

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I'm not suggesting Solutions here - I'm simply sharing the reality side of things with the posters on this thread that are posting the classic perceptions of what most people have when it comes to teachers and public schools.

 

If everyone were required to teach Public school for a year as part of their college experience no matter what degree they were getting. I'm pretty sure the public school system would be way - way different than it is now. To start off there would be a massive shortage of teachers more so that what we have now because people would leave their year long required teaching session with one comment (No fucking way am I going to do that!!) -- all of a sudden we have way more engineers - doctors etc insted of teachers with an interest in math or science etc.

 

Then the teaching thing would get prettied up better funding - better reputation etc to attract those people back into teaching.

 

Hmm? Wait thats already happening -- except the general public hasn't noticed yet.. HA- ha -- lol the joke is on us just wait another 2-3 years when the old school teachers have all died off or retired. My chemistry teacher back in Highschool worked for the Government lab for years - he was a crazy bastard would do all kinds of insane stuff and pushed us kids hard - he had our attention!! We knew he was a freak and thats why many of those same kids are crafting the primo wine you crave or even brewing the next batch of synthetic material for killer sails.

 

My dad went into teaching bio sciences at a school because his number was drawn for Nam only he was on track for med school and they said - either pack for bootcamp or fill this teacher seat that we need filled.

 

If you think top creative and very facinating minds are leaving college with the idea to teach public school now days I really want to know what drug your taking because its some good stuff!

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I'm not suggesting Solutions here - I'm simply sharing the reality side of things with the posters on this thread that are posting the classic perceptions of what most people have when it comes to teachers and public schools.

 

If everyone were required to teach Public school for a year as part of their college experience no matter what degree they were getting. I'm pretty sure the public school system would be way - way different than it is now. To start off there would be a massive shortage of teachers more so that what we have now because people would leave their year long required teaching session with one comment (No fucking way am I going to do that!!) -- all of a sudden we have way more engineers - doctors etc insted of teachers with an interest in math or science etc.

 

Then the teaching thing would get prettied up better funding - better reputation etc to attract those people back into teaching.

 

Hmm? Wait thats already happening -- except the general public hasn't noticed yet.. HA- ha -- lol the joke is on us just wait another 2-3 years when the old school teachers have all died off or retired. My chemistry teacher back in Highschool worked for the Government lab for years - he was a crazy bastard would do all kinds of insane stuff and pushed us kids hard - he had our attention!! We knew he was a freak and thats why many of those same kids are crafting the primo wine you crave or even brewing the next batch of synthetic material for killer sails.

 

My dad went into teaching bio sciences at a school because his number was drawn for Nam only he was on track for med school and they said - either pack for bootcamp or fill this teacher seat that we need filled.

 

If you think top creative and very facinating minds are leaving college with the idea to teach public school now days I really want to know what drug your taking because its some good stuff!

 

just think if all docters were required to work 1 year pro bono for society, how well off the whole society would be......

 

i'll make it easy for them....they can pick any year of their life, after board certification, to fullfill that requirement....only the best will do

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teachers lost power?.......... their union is rather large and doing just fine these days.

 

you probably know which car is better than another..right.

 

but you don't which school is better than another...right? sad.

 

 

When a teacher needs two administrators to sit in on a parent teacher meeting so that there is no chances of a lawsuit launched by the parent who is being told their child got a C+ because they didn't follow the clearly outlined instructions on a project - yes teachers have no power.

 

Teacher Unions have power but thats not the power that counts in the classroom. As for a teacher union standing behind a teacher accused of doing something? Unless you have money and can get your own lawyer pronto your career and life as you know it is over. Good friend was accused of improper relations with a student school and union dropped him like a hot potato he had 28 years of great teaching and never one claim like this. He hired his own lawyer - sold his house to pay for it! -- guess what after one week his lawyer discovered that this girl and her parents had launched two identical lawsuits against two other teachers in two other states and had collected several million dollars. The witness that claimed to have seen the improper event which took place in his class room - after one day of checking up on her - wasn't even a student at the school or even in the same district!! The judge tossed the lawsuit - the school refused to return him to his previous status or job and the union had no interest in backing him up on getting his position back at the school. He sued both got his lost income had his employment records fixed so that this was documented as a scam - and once he was done - he quit his job - moved out of the state - and refused to teach again said that loosing almost all of his retirement nest egg because of one kid and her parents scam wasn't worth it. After that my dad stopped taking science kids out into the delta on our boat to collect samples of various stuff. He stopped taking kids on backpacking trips and he worked school hours only didn't even have an open classroom beyond normal class hours for kids to come in and work on their science projects.

 

Thats what I'm talking about.

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When a teacher needs two administrators to sit in on a parent teacher meeting so that there is no chances of a lawsuit launched by the parent who is being told their child got a C+ because they didn't follow the clearly outlined instructions on a project - yes teachers have no power.

 

Teacher Unions have power but thats not the power that counts in the classroom. As for a teacher union standing behind a teacher accused of doing something? Unless you have money and can get your own lawyer pronto your career and life as you know it is over. Good friend was accused of improper relations with a student school and union dropped him like a hot potato he had 28 years of great teaching and never one claim like this. He hired his own lawyer - sold his house to pay for it! -- guess what after one week his lawyer discovered that this girl and her parents had launched two identical lawsuits against two other teachers in two other states and had collected several million dollars. The witness that claimed to have seen the improper event which took place in his class room - after one day of checking up on her - wasn't even a student at the school or even in the same district!! The judge tossed the lawsuit - the school refused to return him to his previous status or job and the union had no interest in backing him up on getting his position back at the school. He sued both got his lost income had his employment records fixed so that this was documented as a scam - and once he was done - he quit his job - moved out of the state - and refused to teach again said that loosing almost all of his retirement nest egg because of one kid and her parents scam wasn't worth it. After that my dad stopped taking science kids out into the delta on our boat to collect samples of various stuff. He stopped taking kids on backpacking trips and he worked school hours only didn't even have an open classroom beyond normal class hours for kids to come in and work on their science projects.

 

Thats what I'm talking about.

 

compare that to recent laws limiting docter's liability .....

 

lawsuit for a grade dispute? don't think so.

 

but, then again,............ it's your money!

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compare that to recent laws limiting docter's liability .....

 

lawsuit for a grade dispute? don't think so.

 

but, then again,............ it's your money!

 

 

This whole "your money" thing is catchy. When I paid my taxes last year and the year before I put in a hand written note that I didn't want one dime to go to defense spending. How do you think that worked? I didn't hear anything from the I.R.S., which I assume means they followed my instuctions.

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compare that to recent laws limiting docter's liability .....

 

lawsuit for a grade dispute? don't think so.

 

but, then again,............ it's your money!

more correctly, it is OUR money.

 

A "general fund", no?

 

Once you've written the check it belongs to government.. or as Dog suggests, the "collective people".

 

 

Can't have it both ways.

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compare that to recent laws limiting docter's liability .....

 

lawsuit for a grade dispute? don't think so.

 

but, then again,............ it's your money!

think again

 

lawsuits over grades

 

I recall there was a case on the east coast a while back.. university level.

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just think if all docters were required to work 1 year pro bono for society, how well off the whole society would be......

 

i'll make it easy for them....they can pick any year of their life, after board certification, to fullfill that requirement....only the best will do

That is just about the dumbest idea I have ever heard.

 

So what you are suggesting is that you take someone that spends 12 or more YEARS after high scholl just getting qualified to work, and make them give up a year of their life and training when they are saddled with six figure debt to do WHAT exactly? Teach 4th grade? Give me a frickin' break. After they are board certified? You DO know what it takes to get certified, don't you? (short answer...obviously not; it's another 2 years or so after residency).

 

My wife was 29 when she started her first "real" non training job in medicine. And do you know what? 12 years later, when she is a partner and they've added 3 more doctors to the practice...she's STILL the youngest M.D. in the office. She's he exception it seems, making the eight year haul straight out from her undergarduate degree. Either way it's a LOT of work, frankly you should look at residency as public service because you get paid shit and you work most often on clinic patients.

 

How old were you when you were qualified to work in your field?

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compare that to recent laws limiting docter's liability .....

 

lawsuit for a grade dispute? don't think so.

 

but, then again,............ it's your money!

No laws limiting liability for docs where I live. None on teachers either.

 

What do you mean by "it's your money" exactly? My taxes on my property are less than one year of one of my two kids grade school tuition . Out of that also comes police, fire, and trash removal plus all the nice parks and so forth. Education is the biggest line item in our town, but I don't use it. However I have very little control over where it goes. Our schools are not that good, since I can afford not to I don't send my kids there.

 

I'm not sure what your point is.

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Teachers overpaid, underpaid, who knows. I guess it depends where you live. Teachers in our district average around $65,000. Not bad. There aren't any openings either. Teacher jobs in Florida are in demand where the the pay is about 1/3 less. I guess it depends where you live. The biggest perk that teachers enjoy here is early retirement. Most teachers that I know retire between 55 and 58 at 80% of their 3 highest years salary. Not adjusted for inflation and increases, that is around $52,000/year for an average of 20+ years. A nice little $million+ package. Try finding that deal in business today for anyone less than the upper executive level.

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Teachers overpaid, underpaid, who knows. I guess it depends where you live. Teachers in our district average around $65,000. Not bad. There aren't any openings either. Teacher jobs in Florida are in demand where the the pay is about 1/3 less. I guess it depends where you live. The biggest perk that teachers enjoy here is early retirement. Most teachers that I know retire between 55 and 58 at 80% of their 3 highest years salary. Not adjusted for inflation and increases, that is around $52,000/year for an average of 20+ years. A nice little $million+ package. Try finding that deal in business today for anyone less than the upper executive level.

 

You forgot the minimum 30 years of service to cash in the that total. Not sure what amount 25 years would get you, etc. But it would be less--livable though.

 

As for early retirement, shit I didn't know there was an age. I figured if I have enough money I could stop working. ;)

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You forgot the minimum 30 years of service to cash in the that total. Not sure what amount 25 years would get you, etc. But it would be less--livable though.

 

As for early retirement, shit I didn't know there was an age. I figured if I have enough money I could stop working. ;)

 

Eclipse- do the math. Most teachers start at ages 23-28. Now add 30 to that number and what do you get? In today's business climate it is the exception that anyone stays anywhere for 30 years much less 10. Most of us work doing the same thing for far more than 30 years and aren't guaranteed anything like the retirement plan teachers have in this state. I'm not commenting on whether they deserve it but let's get real here, this is a part of the compensation plan that nobody factors in when talking teacher salaries.

 

Additionally, a lot of districts are buying their teachers out after 55 in an effort to reduce costs. With starting salaries around 30-35K, some districts have found it is more cost efficient to buy out their older teachers and hire recent grads.

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think again

 

lawsuits over grades

 

I recall there was a case on the east coast a while back.. university level.

 

 

Since when are logical lawsuits based on the original issue? Having multiple teachers and administrators present during meetings makes for a list of witnesses that can discourage any stupid or concocted claims the parents might decide to attack the school or teacher with. Sad but very true.

 

If a child is out of control and refuses to leave the classroom there needs to be multiple school district witnesses present when the local police of sherrif comes into the class to physically remove the child. I know this because both of my parents have have had to deal with a couple of cases like this in the past 8 years. Not to mention they have had physical threats against them. Cars vandalized etc. Back in the day I watched my dad lift a smart ass kid off his feet by his shirt collar and toss him out of his class. If he had done that in the past 12 years or so my father would have lost his job - probably his house and everything else. Guess what that same kid was arrested at 25 for assaulting and kidnapping his girlfriend and convicted sent to the slammer for a few years. My dad tossed the kid out of his science class because he lashed out at another student and broke some glassware being used in a lab activity.

 

On top of tossing the kid out of the class he told the school administration that the kid could not return to his class and if he saw him on campus again making treats to students he would call the police and make sure that it was made public that a teacher had told the school that the child was not fit for a public school enviornment.

 

Back then the school had lots of power over the students because 90% of them were from an Airforce base and all it took was a call to their parents top managing officer and the kid and parents would get a big slap up side the head from the US Airforce.

 

Now that houses have been built up outside the base - the population is probably 40% Airforce and the rest are general public which the school has no power over.

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My mom taught for over 20 years and there wasn't a time when I didn't go over to their house and see her correcting papers, making tests and creating lessons plans for hours after school. Her work day was 6-7 hours in school and then at least another 3 or more hours after she got home. Not to mention the additional mandatory classes and training which she also had to study for. Sure she took 6 weeks off during the summer but if you're working 60+ hour weeks, you damn well deserve it.

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Eclipse- do the math. Most teachers start at ages 23-28. Now add 30 to that number and what do you get? In today's business climate it is the exception that anyone stays anywhere for 30 years much less 10. Most of us work doing the same thing for far more than 30 years and aren't guaranteed anything like the retirement plan teachers have in this state. I'm not commenting on whether they deserve it but let's get real here, this is a part of the compensation plan that nobody factors in when talking teacher salaries.

 

Additionally, a lot of districts are buying their teachers out after 55 in an effort to reduce costs. With starting salaries around 30-35K, some districts have found it is more cost efficient to buy out their older teachers and hire recent grads.

 

 

Only in states where they have enough teachers coming into the profession. CA -- actually has a shortage of teachers and probably half of the first year teachers quit and go do something else after their first year. Buyouts are very - very rare.

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As for the retirement plan teachers have -- your in serious trouble if you think they have a sweet deal. My wife and I have a better setup and more income if we retire right now in our mid 30's than my Mom will have when she retires at 65 in just two years from now. How could that be? -- Simple the more you make the more capability you have to make profitable investments. When your living on the bare minimum income needed to exist in major CA cities- your lucky to even have a retirement program at all.

 

If you think the teachers managed fund and retirement program is good then your part of the huge population in the US that will have nothing to retire with anyway.

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O.K--first for the prick who early in the thread said "If you're raising a family on 60-70K/year then you shouldn't be teaching because you've made bad choices"--ummm, just because I don't CHOOSE to have a 50 inch flatscreen and because I CHOOSE to have modest cars so my wife can raise our kids during the day does not make me a bad role model. It makes me a model of the idea that parents should raise their kids instead of dumping them off at day care so their two incomes can buy pool tables, motorhomes, and more crap. So please fuck off.

 

Then: we make decent money after a few years and a few extra college credits. We are by no means overpaid, but it has been difficult to keep up with the ridiculous artificial housing cost increases, and the current correction is going to be painful. The parasitic mortgage brokers and agents, housing CEO's who are still getting bonuses despite overbuilding and anyone else who was complicit in this housing bubble--they were and are overpaid for the services they provide. But I know--it's a free market, whatever. Greed is good.

 

Finally: I have--get-- to go teach two more periods and then take a couple weeks off. Finally some sailing time. Merry Christmas all!

 

O

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Good on ya Owen -- are you lucky enough to have the grading period end before vacation or did they screw you and end it after vacation? I helped my mom do her grades last christmas - this year she lucked out and they wrapped it up before vacation so she's going to meet us down at the boat this weekend and go do a little sailing.

 

My dad is retired but - said that he's helping his wife do grades over the break - she still teaches. He ran the clock at the basketball game last night so his wife could go home early and get some of her papers graded.

 

Have a good break!!!

You've got some serious dedication to be in the teaching biz these days.

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Not everybody lives in California dude. There are a lot states in the Midwest where there are no teacher openings. The Sunbelt and California- different story. Then again our home prices haven't doubled in the last 5 years nor have our taxes. U20, great, your investments are doing well. Some of us have lost one or more retirements plans and have seen our 401ks stagnate. The rewards can be higher with private plans but so are the risks.

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Tommy Boy--

 

if you were speaking in my direction, yeah, not everybody does live in California. We can thank Woody for his ongoing p.r. campaign for that; but we are facing declining enrollment and the housing fiasco is going to hurt our budget for a few years.

 

And please, I try not to think about pensions and retirement too much. Thank God my ol' man's putting away college money for the kids. Yes, I'm (they're) lucky.

 

U20guy, thanks for your varied and well-stated postings.

 

Now, about those damn cops getting three-day workweeks and then moonlighting as studio security guards---WTF?

 

merry christmas to all

 

and to all a shitfight!

 

O

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That is just about the dumbest idea I have ever heard.

 

So what you are suggesting is that you take someone that spends 12 or more YEARS after high scholl just getting qualified to work, and make them give up a year of their life and training when they are saddled with six figure debt to do WHAT exactly? Teach 4th grade? Give me a frickin' break. After they are board certified? You DO know what it takes to get certified, don't you? (short answer...obviously not; it's another 2 years or so after residency).

 

My wife was 29 when she started her first "real" non training job in medicine. And do you know what? 12 years later, when she is a partner and they've added 3 more doctors to the practice...she's STILL the youngest M.D. in the office. She's he exception it seems, making the eight year haul straight out from her undergarduate degree. Either way it's a LOT of work, frankly you should look at residency as public service because you get paid shit and you work most often on clinic patients.

 

How old were you when you were qualified to work in your field?

 

 

Hey B.J the people busting their ass to owe mega bucks for schooling so they can be an MD are not the people that need a reality check on what teachers go through in public schools. -- But just incase when you have kids and a teacher meets with you and gives you bad news about your kid - be sure you approach it from the fact they want to help your kid and they don't want to paint a rosy picture or lie to you that your kid needs help.

 

The way I see it any career that deals with the general public off the street that requires multiple years of college is facing a big issue with the general public attitude that it doesn't need to take responsiblity and can sue anyone they feel like.

 

Teachers - Doctors deal directly with the general public - firemen indirectly deal with the public - Police they deal but who's going to tell a police officer with video in his car to go fuck him self and sue the police for whatever nutty scam they can come up with?

 

Fact is dealing with the general public in a role that has lots of responsiblity and potentially a big impact on a person life has a huge risk nowdays and the pay sucks ass.

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Hey B.J the people busting their ass to owe mega bucks for schooling so they can be an MD are not the people that need a reality check on what teachers go through in public schools....

I hold BJ's wife in the highest esteem, but don't cry too many tears for the poor doctors. Save a few for the poor slobs working two crap jobs and taking the bus home.

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So I was watching the Democrats debating the other day and they keep bringing up how teachers are under paid in the U.S. and how this is a big part of the problem with our education system. Now I didn't go into this in depth, but the numbers I kept coming up with averaged out at about $45,000 per year. Most people only have to work 11 months if they're lucky and depending on vacation time. Since I'm self empolyed, if I don't work, I starve. Teachers however get 3 months off in the summer time and an additonal couple of weeks during the various religious holidays and breaks during the year (works out to about another month of off time). So I guess I'm asking, is this not decent pay for the time put in? Not to mention clean work environment, free parking, private break rooms, weekends off, pension plan and medical not to mention a union. If I'm incorrect, I'd like to know. Goin for my asbestos suit.

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I wuld want about 3 times that much to roll out of bed and put up with a room full of screw off spoiled American modern day BRATS..5 times that much if they were all liberal cry baby types like we see at the Universities where I work on occasion these days

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I wuld want about 3 times that much to roll out of bed and put up with a room full of screw off spoiled American modern day BRATS..5 times that much if they were all liberal cry baby types like we see at the Universities where I work on occasion these days

Janitorial services business doing well, then?

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I wuld want about 3 times that much to roll out of bed and put up with a room full of screw off spoiled American modern day BRATS..5 times that much if they were all liberal cry baby types like we see at the Universities where I work on occasion these days

Janitorial services business doing well, then?

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Janitorial services business doing well, then?

You tell me tidy bowl....I make far more that a stupid professor or teacher does building the places where they screw around all day. In case you have not had your eyes open latetly Prevailing wage is about 40 bucks plus benifits for an Average construction working doing a job at a college..I have 20 plus of them working for me. I make far more than and one of them does.....I enjoy talking the liberals money while they look down thier noses at us construction workers.......I laugh all the way to the bank........if only they knew.....I would rather they stay in the dark and keep making me rich.

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Eclipse- do the math. Most teachers start at ages 23-28. Now add 30 to that number and what do you get? In today's business climate it is the exception that anyone stays anywhere for 30 years much less 10. Most of us work doing the same thing for far more than 30 years and aren't guaranteed anything like the retirement plan teachers have in this state. I'm not commenting on whether they deserve it but let's get real here, this is a part of the compensation plan that nobody factors in when talking teacher salaries.

 

Additionally, a lot of districts are buying their teachers out after 55 in an effort to reduce costs. With starting salaries around 30-35K, some districts have found it is more cost efficient to buy out their older teachers and hire recent grads.

First, I don't live in Florida, but did do the research on the state retirement website.

 

Tommy Boy, using you 65K as a number and 30 years of service. Here is their Retirement Formula: Years of Creditable Service x Percentage Value x AFC = Yearly Payout (this isn't retiring early). Here is how the numbers fall: 30*.016*65000=$31,200.

 

Benefits would be reduced by 5% for each year remaining before age 62. 62-55=7 7*5=35% or a reduction of $10,920.

 

So in summation the public school teacher in Florida who works 30 years with their 5 highest earning years of $65,000, and retiring at 55 would bring in $20,280 a year.

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If the pay and benefits are so wonderful, why aren't folks like flaps rushing to become teachers?

 

Seems like a simple market economics to me: if teaching positions are going unfilled or we're not happy with the people being attracted to the teaching profession, then we need to pay teachers more money to attract better candidates. Or have none of you people ever run a business?

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If the pay and benefits are so wonderful, why aren't folks like flaps rushing to become teachers?

 

Seems like a simple market economics to me: if teaching positions are going unfilled or we're not happy with the people being attracted to the teaching profession, then we need to pay teachers more money to attract better candidates. Or have none of you people ever run a business?

.. Most folks have not run a business......hence they don't really get it.

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Yup, a union carpenter makes about the same as I do if I cover an absent teacher's class or do some extra playground supervision (which is far more interesting than sitting in the lunchroom anyway). Both positions--builder or educator-- are difficult and rewarding.

 

Glad our unions are active!

 

No, wait, unions are bad and powerful; they're elitist and their members "look down their noses at us". damn, it's confusing...I'll just quit thinking, that'll take care of it.

 

I had the coolest troll taped to the reflector mount on my bike...ah youth.

 

O

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First, I don't live in Florida, but did do the research on the state retirement website.

 

Tommy Boy, using you 65K as a number and 30 years of service. Here is their Retirement Formula: Years of Creditable Service x Percentage Value x AFC = Yearly Payout (this isn't retiring early). Here is how the numbers fall: 30*.016*65000=$31,200.

 

Benefits would be reduced by 5% for each year remaining before age 62. 62-55=7 7*5=35% or a reduction of $10,920.

 

So in summation the public school teacher in Florida who works 30 years with their 5 highest earning years of $65,000, and retiring at 55 would bring in $20,280 a year.

 

Here in CA I have had several long chats with district and outside "consultants." Because we do do not contribute social security, and after a lot of number crunching, we end up making 50% of the average of our last 3 years. Our salary scale tops out just past 80k if you put in 30 years (which I won't). edit-- but we lose our health insurance and so you have to pay for that. But doesn't that get cheaper as you get older?

 

But fuck it !

 

a) cancer runs in the family and

 

B) 40 k a year coming in direct deposit style is plenty once I get that old fiberglass boat and head south. Que dia es? El primer del mes?! Bebistas por todas !

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That is just about the dumbest idea I have ever heard.

 

So what you are suggesting is that you take someone that spends 12 or more YEARS after high scholl just getting qualified to work, and make them give up a year of their life and training when they are saddled with six figure debt to do WHAT exactly? Teach 4th grade? Give me a frickin' break. After they are board certified? You DO know what it takes to get certified, don't you? (short answer...obviously not; it's another 2 years or so after residency).

 

My wife was 29 when she started her first "real" non training job in medicine. And do you know what? 12 years later, when she is a partner and they've added 3 more doctors to the practice...she's STILL the youngest M.D. in the office. She's he exception it seems, making the eight year haul straight out from her undergarduate degree. Either way it's a LOT of work, frankly you should look at residency as public service because you get paid shit and you work most often on clinic patients.

 

How old were you when you were qualified to work in your field?

 

so, the capitalist model for health care is best. correct.

 

why then is this country going to elect a dem on the basis of socialist model disquised as universal healthcare?

 

same goes for education: moving more and more towards socialist models

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so, the capitalist model for health care is best. correct.

 

why then is this country going to elect a dem on the basis of socialist model disquised as universal healthcare?

 

same goes for education: moving more and more towards socialist models

 

 

Hey cut the guy some slack -- he is only thinking about that big Ed bill his wife has. Though if all undergrad college students spent a year or even 6 months doing subing or student teaching is very different than asking a doc after 12yrs of upper ED to spend a year teaching snotty nosed 12yr olds. His view is even more absured than my suggestion - granted its clouded by his current situation.

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so, the capitalist model for health care is best. correct.

 

why then is this country going to elect a dem on the basis of socialist model disquised as universal healthcare?

 

same goes for education: moving more and more towards socialist models

 

Why doesn't anyone here ever rant about the evil socialistic characteristics of the Post Office, the FCC and street lights?

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Why doesn't anyone here ever rant about the evil socialistic characteristics of the Post Office, the FCC and street lights?

 

post office?.....dino model, in the death spiral.

 

fcc? useless, bloated agency.

 

street lights? i predict they'll go green in time.

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Hey cut the guy some slack -- he is only thinking about that big Ed bill his wife has. Though if all undergrad college students spent a year or even 6 months doing subing or student teaching is very different than asking a doc after 12yrs of upper ED to spend a year teaching snotty nosed 12yr olds. His view is even more absured than my suggestion - granted its clouded by his current situation.

 

he'll have a come back answer....he always does.

 

 

 

as for education model for the general masses (cause the rich & politcians will always use private schools), its time to cut the cord.

 

time rid the gov of that bloated dunebockel..

 

place the funds and the power back in the consumers hands.

 

raise your hand if you want smaller gov....

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he'll have a come back answer....he always does.

as for education model for the general masses (cause the rich & politcians will always use private schools), its time to cut the cord.

 

time rid the gov of that bloated dunebockel..

 

place the funds and the power back in the consumers hands.

 

raise your hand if you want smaller gov....

 

Can we start with Homeland Security and National Defense? Me.. me..

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