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What would it take for you to join US SAILING?


Hobie Anarchy

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As soon as I'm done with a couple of pressing things, I will drag this forum for some basic questions that I will put the President if he will take my call. Hobie, you've met me, and you and I have dozens of mutual friends - I will promise Capron the respect that you believe him to be worth.

 

One thing that Jim and everyone at US Sailing needs to understand: Loose cannons or not, The SA forums - the Ed's creation - is, by a significant factor, the most-viewed resource amongst US Sailors, and sailors worldwide. Have your webmaster compare the number of viewers who go to US Sailing compared to over 330,000 unique IP addresses looking at SA last month.

 

US Sailing may consider the Ed and myself to be loose cannons, but we have literally hundreds of thousands of "constituents" for lack of a better word - and whlle many readers do not agree with either of us on many issues, most of you value the openness and willingness to engage most any argument that we, and the existence of SA, represent. The majority of responses to this thread specifically denounce exactly the secrecy and lack of openness that seems part and parcel with every decision at US Sailing. Begin to change that, in more direct ways than "instructing the staff to address those issues" and your staff will follow your lead. If your other job is too pressing for you to do this one efficiently and well, step down and let someone else do it.

 

Even if JC doesn't want to to interact with SA, if they are serious about changing, at least have the USS management show up at local clubs around the country for open discussions on a regular basis, or have a regular conference call for those that want to interact. Talk is cheap, let's see some concrete actions. Otherwise this is just another USS feel good exercise that does nothing for the sport.

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US Sailing, where do I start? The power structure in US Sailing is drawn from the people who attend the meetings. At a minimum, to attend the meetings twice a year, costs $2-3,000 including meals, airfare, and lodging. (Never in a cheap place). The meetings usually take up a minimum of 2 weekdays. For people with a real job it is an expensive proposition to even participate in the 2 annual meetings. Of course you have to participate at the local and regional levels also. Minimum entry into the talent pool available to get involved the US Sailing power structure is about $20,000/year in time and cash. Does anyone really wonder why it is an elitist organization?

 

My observations from attending the meetings is that there are some good average people who struggle to attend. They tend to lose interest after a while because there is a very small return for their commitment. The remaining bunch are generally the well to do, retired, and/or power hounds. Guess who makes it into the chairs? Does US Sailing offer some good programs? Yep, Safety at Sea, several Junior Programs, Rules are good. Pretty much everything else is average at best.

 

There is a common misconception on this board that US sailing controls PHRF. Although there is a national committee, its only regulatory function is to provide an appeals process to fleets that subscribe to it. Otherwise it has no budget and only acts as a clearinghouse of information for the various PHRF fleets who have varying rules, standards and handicaps. US Sailing has administered IOR, IMS, and Americap in the past . All have been money losing propositions which have been subsidized by the dues paying membership. IRC is a bit different. USSailing makes a commission on IRC handicaps in the US. My guess is that is about 10% which roughly comes to about $32,000/year which is not that much and doesn't come close to paying half of the offshore director's salary.

 

My take is that US Sailing has strayed from its original intent. It has become way to broad in its scope and really needs to be 3 organizations. One organization which is racing only- one design, collegiate, dinghy, handicap offshore and handicap inshore. Second organization should be training and youth. Youth programs, learn to sail, race committee, safety at sea.

The third organization should be Olympic sailing only.

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Here's a new question for US Sailing - something for Capron to instruct his staff to answer with total transparency - Please address the concerns raised by Bob Merrick's report, from SailJuice:

 

First the Good News:

 

Last weekend at the US Sailing Spring meeting the US Sailing Multihull Council (MHC) introduced the following motion to the US Sailing House of Delegates.

 

The MHC moves that the House of Delegates recommend to the Board of Directors that the US Delegation to ISAF support one or more of the March 2008 Submissions calling for a re-vote on Olympic Events for the 2012 Games in Great Britain. The MHC contends that a re-vote on all ten events is fairer than the Submissions that call for a limited run-off vote of a partial slate.

 

After considerable discussion, the motion was approved unanimously.

 

What is the House of Delegates? The US Sailing website describes it in the following way.

 

“The US Sailing House of Delegates is a constituent based organization intended to serve as an avenue and voice for member sailors. The House membership consists of delegates from the fifteen councils within US SAILING and the chairs of the five US SAILING Divisions. Councils are organizations representing various types of sailors at the grass roots. Divisions are groupings of the various operating committees within US SAILING. The House is often referred to as the council of councils. Meetings of the House provide the forum where the various constituencies within US SAILING may, together in one place, debate the issues and formulate opinions on these issues. Members of the US SAILING Board of Directors often attend these meetings as observers in order to hear the debate.”

 

So that’s the good news. The “voice for member sailors” in the United States unanimously voted in favor of a motion that “the US Delegation to ISAF support one or more of the March 2008 Submissions calling for a re-vote on Olympic Events for the 2012 Games.”

 

Now for the bad news:

 

The 15 member US Sailing Board of Directors firmly rejected the motion put forward by the House of Delegates. So much for listening to the “voice” of the sailors.

 

Bob Merrick

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Merrick was not at the Spring Meeting, even though he is / was the Vice Chairman of the Multihull Council and the meeting was in his own backyard.

 

Merrick resigned his position on the Multihull Council when the multihulls were voted out of the Olympics. Rather than lend his considerable credibility and talent to participate in the processs to get the discipline back in the Olympics, he has chosen to take his ball and go home like a petulant little child.

 

He took my report of the meeting, put his own spin on it and sent it to Andy.

 

I was at the meeting.

 

I introduced the motion written by John Williams (Chairman of the Multihull Council) in the House of Delegates and defended it there, where it was unanimously approved.

 

I defended the motion to the Board Meeting the following day, where it was not "firmly rejected". They rejected the first sentence (support re-opening the vote), but supported the second (if the vote was reopened, they would support a revisit of all 10 disciplines). That was the only vote taken and it was unanimous.

 

That's how it went down. I sent my version of the story to Andy last night, but he chose to publish Merrick's version.

 

Was it what we really wanted? No. Was it what we expected? No. We expected the motion to be completely rejected.

 

I was there. Merrick is getting his info second hand.

 

It was an open meeting and there were lots of witnesses.

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Membership and revenues are rising under the current leadership.

 

Mr. Sham:

 

You picked the right name for yourself:

 

sham –noun 1. something that is not what it purports to be; a spurious imitation; fraud or hoax.

 

A buddy of mine was pointing out the lies, outright lies and damned lies that the U.S. Sailing supporters keep eschewing. Looking through the Board Minutes, where one would expect the lies not to be presented, here is the most recent report on membership activity from October 2007 less than FIVE months ago:

---------------------

http://www.ussailing.org/bod/FY2007_Board_...24_APPROVED.pdf

5. President Capron reminded the board that we will be introducing a new database interface tool,

we have a Digital Rights Management tool, and that overall our website is getting better. Capron

discussed the fact that as an NGB, US SAILING is required to coordinate the sport in the USA

and that we need to look at our calendar and make it easier to select dates that are not in conflict

with other events.

Relative to the 2007 goals, Capron shared that the association is making good progress on most

of them. Membership revenue is up 3% net, rather than the 6%, but the total number of members

is about flat. The Association is on or ahead of budget at this point in the year. Although the

Database project has slipped from its original April date for full implementation, we expect to

see this implemented in November, 2007.

---------------------

 

Tell me, what part of the President's statement that membership "is about flat" equates to your statement that "Membership and revenues are rising"? Explain yourself.

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When NAYRU was founded (predecessor to USYRU and U.S. Sailing), the purpose was to bring organizers from across the country to create standards. What standards? Racing Rules. Handicap Rules. It was possible to go from event to event and have to use different racing rules and different handicap rules everywhere you went. Are these now gone? Not really. While there is a standard racing rules book, each event does modify them some lightly, some heavily in their Notice of Race. And there are still plenty of places where one travels that they need to get their boat a different handicap.

 

The point of that little lesson is that the members, the people who volunteered, the people who worked these things out were there representing organizations trying to improve the lot for sailors nationally (actually internationally because the Canadians were part of NAYRU).

 

I don't see the reason why individuals have to be members of U.S. Sailing. I would recommend the reverse course than what is being floated by U.S. Sailing. I say, let's go back to the old days and have clubs and RSA's get to the table to work on the rules, judging, race administration stuff that is ALL US SAILING does anyway today. There is NO committees set for bowmen, pit, mast, trapeze, grinders, skippers, etc. They are ONLY servicing the clubs and RSA's. Let's recommend that they abandon their ill-fated attempt to bring in skippers and crews to the process, because they themselves can't explain why a skipper or crew should be a member and none of us can explain what good $60 a year does for us. Because it does nothing for us. They know 1,000,000 people in the U.S. race at least one race per year. After all of their efforts to try to get members, the best they can do is get 40,000 people in the U.S. That is a failed attempt to reach a market that they have a monopoly on.

 

I thought about this a little more. They have had an "One Design Class Council" and "Inshore" committee forever. What has this group done for the individual sailor that they are trying to force into membership? Here's where I'm coming from. A friend calls up and offers me his Tempest to guest sail at his club. What do I know about a Tempest? Why haven't these committees developed a website for this class (and all others) that would provide a level platform for all Tempest sailors? What do I mean by a level platform? It could have the technical details of the boat, but then speed measurements (all trim positions by different windspeeds) that would not only get me into the game faster, but would help the rear end of the fleet understand what they need to do to get up to speed. It might rank the builders of the hulls, builders of the spars, builders of the sails, so I knew if what I was getting was at least decent to use. Some dorks at U.S. Sailing might say that is a function for the class. But I will say that it is not. The class develops the specifications and measurement plans to provide a level playing field within tolerances. U.S. Sailing could provide the correct settings within those tolerances for the varying wind and sea state. But like I mentioned yesterday U.S. Sailing does NOTHING directly for the individual sailor. Their services are provided to the clubs that run races. Those clubs who are improving their services to the individual sailor should pay U.S. Saiilng for that support, whose cost then is applied in entry fees to the individual sailor.

 

U.S. Sailing ought to abandon the individual membership categories.

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I introduced the motion written by John Williams (Chairman of the Multihull Council) in the House of Delegates and defended it there, where it was unanimously approved.

 

I defended the motion to the Board Meeting the following day, where it was not "firmly rejected". They rejected the first sentence (support re-opening the vote), but supported the second (if the vote was reopened, they would support a revisit of all 10 disciplines). That was the only vote taken and it was unanimous.

 

 

Can you kindly provide some clarification of the actual process, and, with respect to the procedural significance of the outcome 'approval of the motion' and subsequent qualifier 'if the vote is re-opened', please comment on US Sailing's proposed next steps with respect to the ISAF revote question at the upcoming May ISAF meeting? I will go over to Sailjuice and check out their bit. Thanks in advance. R

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They have had an "One Design Class Council" and "Inshore" committee forever. What has this group done for the individual sailor that they are trying to force into membership?

 

I'll address this, since I'm the acting Chair of the ODCC. I'll be the first to admit that the ODCC doesn't do enough for the individual sailor. We, along with the Multihull Council, opposed the universal membership proposal.

 

The two main "products" of the ODCC are the One-Design Sailing Symposium and the Class Management Handbook. The last ODSS was held in November 2007 in Columbus, OH and attended by over 130 people (larger than the just concluded Spring Meeting). Here's the press release.

 

The Class Management Handbook is outdated. At the Spring Meeting, we set up a working party to overhaul it. The manual contains best class management practices and tips on fleet building.

 

Why haven't these committees developed a website for this class (and all others) that would provide a level platform for all Tempest sailors?

 

There are approximately 270 active one-design classes in the US. Developing and maintaining this would be a monumental task - and redundant, because most class association websites already have this information.

 

It might rank the builders of the hulls, builders of the spars, builders of the sails, so I knew if what I was getting was at least decent to use.

That's not going to happen. US SAILING is not going to promote one manufacturer over another.

 

Some dorks at U.S. Sailing might say that is a function for the class. But I will say that it is not.
Wrong. There are not enough resources = people to do this. You want to pay me to do it, great. I'm not doing it on my free time. My rate is about $100 / hr.

 

U.S. Sailing does NOTHING directly for the individual sailor. Their services are provided to the clubs that run races. Those clubs who are improving their services to the individual sailor should pay U.S. Saiilng for that support, whose cost then is applied in entry fees to the individual sailor.
I wouldn't say they do NOTHING. Yes, they could do a better job of communicating what they do. I personally have benefitted from sailing in a US SAILING Championship (CofC) and have taken advantage of the race officer training programs.
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Can you kindly provide some clarification of the actual process, and, with respect to the procedural significance of the outcome 'approval of the motion' and subsequent qualifier 'if the vote is re-opened', please comment on US Sailing's proposed next steps with respect to the ISAF revote question at the upcoming May ISAF meeting? I will go over to Sailjuice and check out their bit. Thanks in advance. R

 

Check your PMs.

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Although the Database project has slipped from its original April date for full implementation, we expect to

see this implemented in November, 2007.

---------------------

 

Designing the new system with Dbase III are we?

 

A database project 7 months behind schedule? While not unheard of, it does once again tend to point to bad leadership, a hosting/design firm that is milking the deal as best they can before they are sent down the road, or a system designed by multiple committees who do not have not a clue about the technology they are dealing with..

 

Is the database project even up and running yet? Running per the design specs? What kinds of cost overruns?

 

/rant

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I have to jump in on one point - Bob and many others who have chosen to quit US SAILING as a method of expressing dissent should not be insulted. They have a legitimate beef and should be respected for taking a stand. In Bob's case, the subject of Olympic Events hits closer to home than for 99.9% of us, and he's not the only Olympian and medalist to choose to "vote with his feet." Like him, there are dedicated volunteers that have done and are doing much for the discipline of multihull sailing that have simply gotten up from the table for a wide variety of reasons. My sincere hope is that through hard work and purposeful action, we may give them a reason to sit back down. It is wrong-headed to insult someone for choosing a different path.

 

On the matter of the Board's action - I am disappointed, but I haven't given up. Bob has a point in that, without a 2/3rds majority of the ISAF Council, the issue of Events will remain closed. The Board's action seems to indicate that all four US votes will remain in the "Nay" column, leaving us to hope that the avalanche of submissions from so many classes and MNAs last week will somehow tip the scale without the US Delegates. What may be an unintended consequence, however, is that by not voting for a Submission of their choice, the US may see a very different Submission pass without their support. I would suggest that they would be better off engaging the process rather than sitting back and betting that a 2/3rds majority isn't achievable without them.

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Designing the new system with Dbase III are we?

 

A database project 7 months behind schedule? While not unheard of, it does once again tend to point to bad leadership, a hosting/design firm that is milking the deal as best they can before they are sent down the road, or a system designed by multiple committees who do not have not a clue about the technology they are dealing with..

 

Is the database project even up and running yet? Running per the design specs? What kinds of cost overruns?

 

/rant

 

Max! You have found your calling. Jump in and help them out.

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Max! You have found your calling. Jump in and help them out.

 

Yep, I will jump right in there Sham... Love designing systems by committee - We all know how well that works...

 

I have volunteered plenty of my time on the YRA level, and the local club level. I have seen dysfunctional BOD's and management by committee. As long as those games are being played, I have better things to do.

 

Unless senior leadership of USS is willing to kill off the scared cows and send people down the road who are in the way or are trying to play with personal agendas, there is not a chance in hell I would want to step up for this glaring example of bad management.

 

What do you think I am, Nutz?

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Yep, I will jump right in there Sham... Love designing systems by committee - We all know how well that works...

 

I have volunteered plenty of my time on the YRA level, and the local club level. I have seen dysfunctional BOD's and management by committee. As long as those games are being played, I have better things to do.

 

Unless senior leadership of USS is willing to kill off the scared cows and send people down the road who are in the way or are trying to play with personal agendas, there is not a chance in hell I would want to step up for this glaring example of bad management.

 

What do you think I am, Nutz?

 

Ok then. Sit on the sidelines and complain. It is a lot easier....

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Think about mandatory membership, wait, I'm not talking about U.S. Sailing.

 

Each yacht club should require mandatory membership. They are buying and paying for the race committee boats, marks, flags, cannons, etc. They are buying the lunches and breakfasts for the RC. They are providing the docks or cranes or storage lot and parking lot. They are providing the bar to have one afterwards. They are taking on the whole risk and insurance equation of running the races. They are the ones with the real skin in the game. U.S. Sailing doesn't even come close to this level of input at any event.

 

Then the RSA's should have mandatory membership too. By coordinating schedules trying to eliminate overlap in schedules. Providing the first line of appeals, providing junior events, putting on seminars for clubs and individual sailors, etc. They are right there with the sport. U.S. Sailing is very detached at this level.

 

Wouldn't these mandatory memberships be a hoot! You bring your co-workers down for a beer can race, sign them up for $100 a month dues, they'll love ya!

 

Note the sarcasm in the "they'll love ya!" It just goes to show how ridiculous this all is.

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- Opererational and financial transparency.

 

What BS. Many in the hierarchy have said this for eons. Tell me, how hard would it be to put the detail budget (in Excel) on the website? 5 minutes of time? Instead here is the "transparency" they have been offering - note when clicking on the "Current Budget," it shows pie charts from 2006, there is nothing on 2007 or 2008, nor is there any detail, just total figures:

http://www.ussailing.org/budget/current_budget.asp

http://www.ussailing.org/budget/Documents/...udit_Report.pdf

http://www.ussailing.org/budget/Documents/...alStatement.pdf

http://www.ussailing.org/budget/Documents/...sureForm990.pdf

 

There are 30 members of the Delegation that goes from U.S. Sailing to ISAF's meetings twice a year. U.S. Sailing bylaws require that the delegation members expenses be paid. I know that some of them pay their own way because it isn't a big deal for them, but still many do have their travel, housing and per diem paid. Where are these 30 traveling to this year? Estoril, Portugal and Qingdao, China. It is a pretty good gig if you can get it. Now, just show me where in the budget the amount that is paid for 30 people to travel overseas twice per year?

 

Transparency will never get to this level. Don't even be facetious to suggest that it will occur. Many things are hidden from the public for a reason.

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Nothing! Absolutely nothing!

Come on Sailman there has to be something they can do for you to make you join.

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I am going to flip-flop. U.S. Sailing should make membership mandatory immediately. Here's why - There are many today that are fed up with the Olympic influence on amatuer sailing. Many today are ready to establish a new organization just for amatuer sailing in the U.S. The new organization can create their own racing right of way rules that have no influence of Olympic involvement. The new organization would allow clubs not to be tied into the Ted Stevens Amatuer Sports Act. That way if they wanted to exclude a competitor, they could do it regardless what reason they wanted to exclude a competitor. This would be an extremely healthy thing for the sport. Let's support U.S. Sailing's mandate. It will be the best thing to happen to the sport in decades.

 

U.S. Sailing can have the training operation, Olympics, championships, and cruising boats. The new organization can serve amatuer sailing which is what the vast majority of all of us is looking for.

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I am going to flip-flop. U.S. Sailing should make membership mandatory immediately. Here's why - There are many today that are fed up with the Olympic influence on amatuer sailing. Many today are ready to establish a new organization just for amatuer sailing in the U.S. The new organization can create their own racing right of way rules that have no influence of Olympic involvement. The new organization would allow clubs not to be tied into the Ted Stevens Amatuer Sports Act. That way if they wanted to exclude a competitor, they could do it regardless what reason they wanted to exclude a competitor. This would be an extremely healthy thing for the sport. Let's support U.S. Sailing's mandate. It will be the best thing to happen to the sport in decades.

 

U.S. Sailing can have the training operation, Olympics, championships, and cruising boats. The new organization can serve amatuer sailing which is what the vast majority of all of us is looking for.

As Bill Clinton always says in the YouTube spoofs: "What, What, What did I do?"

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As Bill Clinton always says in the YouTube spoofs: "What, What, What did I do?"

 

Well Mr. Cruiser,

 

U.S. Sailing has been talking for a decade about developing a program for cruisers. And since the creation of their new bylaws a couple years ago, they can't even find someone to take the vice presidencies chair of cruising. It is unbelievable that they put in the infrastructure for something nobody wants within the organization.

 

You didn't do anything yet.

 

But wait until the make mandatory membership for cruisers in the U.S. Then you can do something!

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Ok then. Sit on the sidelines and complain. It is a lot easier....

 

There are lots of us who think that this is a nutty proposal who are not sitting on the sidelines, but are very active running regattas in our area and already have a hard time justifying the amount of time and energy we spend volunteering for the sport, but we do it because we really do care about it. I had a conversation earlier today with someone heavily involved with USS who suggested that I need to volunteer and attend the meetings. I wanted to puke in the phone, that is such a cop out disrespectful response to a long time dues paying member. USS is a service organization and needs to figure out how to provide services that the constituants consider valuable enough that they won't have to be "ruled" into joining.

 

Ron White

Chief Measurer

CYC Race to Mackinac

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Ok then. Sit on the sidelines and complain. It is a lot easier....

 

 

Dude,

 

there are a great many of us that have been completely disenfranchised by US Sailing and told that they don't want our input, help or advice.

 

So you know what? If they want to sit in their Ivory Tower and attempt to dictate how we are supposed to spend our money and refuse our input. Fine. But don't sit there and lecture us about the efficacy of our complaints without contributing.

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was it last year the big USSA annual meeting was in Phoenix?

 

Way to make sure none of the local riffraff show up and get underfoot

 

Ya I know the explanation was the travel got fucked up and the reservations were made to late – but that’s no excuse.

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There are lots of us who think that this is a nutty proposal who are not sitting on the sidelines, but are very active running regattas in our area and already have a hard time justifying the amount of time and energy we spend volunteering for the sport, but we do it because we really do care about it. I had a conversation earlier today with someone heavily involved with USS who suggested that I need to volunteer and attend the meetings. I wanted to puke in the phone, that is such a cop out disrespectful response to a long time dues paying member. USS is a service organization and needs to figure out how to provide services that the constituants consider valuable enough that they won't have to be "ruled" into joining.

 

Ron White

Chief Measurer

CYC Race to Mackinac

 

Ron and I sometimes agree and sometimes disagree. On this one I could not agree more. It is up to the service organization to determine what its membership wants and needs and then to do its best to provide that service. USSailing recent problem (from my prospective) is that it has become all things to all people and listened only to a specific group of insiders. I also agree with an earlier post of Ron's --I am not quoting-- in which he put for the the concept that USSailing is failing all of us if it does not focus on and deliver more growth in sailors and racers. I am a believer that if they were to do that all of our regattas would be better and USSailing would not have to worry about attracting members. I do not know when I first joined but it was probably 1976 or 77. Many of the "programs" have been improved or are very helpful but I have seen USSailing focus on "membership" as opposed to sailing growth. Why on earth should some of my crew join. USS did not do anything to get them into sailing or to further there development. Why should I have to get them to join in order to "permit" them to steer my boat. Nonsense. Now if USSailing offered them something they would join up. Dues should be lower (but that is my view).

 

Ron's other point that a person can only dedicate so much of their time is also well taken. Assuming you have a full time job you cannot run major regattas, be part of the leadership for your club, GO SAILING and voluteer for US Sailing. The concept that somehow if you have a point of view that differs from that which is being executed at USSailing that you have to join the voluteer group makes no sense. Your facts/opinions should be heard weighed, evaluated and responded to (sometimes in the negative).

 

Robin

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I don't know if this is valid, but let's try looking at what US Sailing is trying to do from a comparison viewpoint with another sport. Let's try auto racing, NASCAR to be specific.

 

There are already certain things in place in auto racing, just as there are in place for sailboats. All auto racers know what a checkered flag, a green flag, yellow flag, etc. means. They know about surfaces, how to drive, etc. They don't need NASCAR to tell them any of that. Same with sailing. Any sailor should know about the boat, channel markers, buoys, equipment, docks, etc. They don't need US Sailing for that. So the organization doesn't need to be there for those kinds of things; they're pretty basic.

 

If US Sailing wants to start making membership mandatory for sailing, it would be the equivalent of NASCAR deciding that all auto racers become members of their organization. First of all, CART, IRL, NHRA & others would have a lot to say about that. They operate differently than NASCAR. That would create something that would be impossible to manage. NASCAR would have to define everything that starts from their own circuit of tracks down to every neighborhood track in the country. That would put square into their jurisdiction the description of everything allowable on every track & in every class of vehicles that compete that there is anywhere in the U.S. No organization could do that well. I can't even imagine that any of the auto racing conglomerates & organizations would even consider taking on a project of that magnitude. Each local organization handles its own vehicles, its own track (or tracks) & nothing more. Every track has its own set of driver rules, specifications for vehicles, etc. Do you normally race at Track A & want to race at Track B next weekend? You go online & find the rules for that track, or call them & get a copy. Can you get information like that from US Sailing in a timely manner?

 

Why would US Sailing get the idea that it could handle everything to do with sailing in the whole US? It can't handle what it has to do now. Go to NASCAR's website & see if they are as out of date as US Sailing's site is. Every track site & racing organization I've visited is up-to-date, revisions posted, new rules, everything. Are all the drivers happy? Not always, but that's typical; you can't please everyone, but do your best. At the very least, it can't be that difficult to get a website set up & maintained properly if other organizations can do it. There just isn't any excuse for US Sailing to not be able to do it too. Up-to-date information available to anyone it concerns shouldn't be something they don't care about, as the case appears to be now.

 

US Sailing needs to look at its mission statement & see if it works. If it doesn't, rethink it. If it does, then set things up to reflect that. They can be a general organizational body with certain specific functions, but managing everything in the country would be way out of scope & no one but some kind of delusional megalomaniac could dream of that much control. The local clubs/groups should have their own jurisdictions to handle, possibly with certain functions falling under the national organization. That's all it should be & no more. And while they're at it, hire someone to manage that website who knows website management. Others can do it. It can't be that big a deal. And send those promised magazines, get the rulebooks printed & sent out in time for the racing season, all those other things that should be done by their organization. If they can't figure out how, maybe they should talk to some of those other big organizations & find out how they do it.

 

For US Sailing to be viable, it first needs to start with reorganization. I think the people on this site have given enough information for them to think about how that overhaul should look. Forced membership will only create more dissension within the organization & more people for them to ignore in favor of their own interests. And lots of unhappy people will walk away from the sport. Maybe that's what they want. Just the few who listen to them, doing what they want them to do.

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What would it take? They need to adhere to the concept of "value added". IOW, what am I going to get for the value of my dollar? Membership, in and of itself, is nothing but an attempt to snag $40 bucks from me (and you, and you over there). Rules? Ok, I can get those from the ISAF and they don't charge me anything.

PRO training? Ok. There's one.

Insurance rates (especially rigs)? They haven't touched this one, and it's a problem to all of us.

 

I want to see them do something for their constituency besides go to fucking meetings. Let's see the "value added".

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Strings,

 

I think that there does appear to be a common theme registering here about assigning a value to membership. The posts which describe USS as trying to be everything to all people and failing are spot on. There was a post about separating the organization into three entities. I think that misses the mark. Going back to its roots the organization was about racing and getting a level playing field across regions. Why try and move on past that? Why not excel at one thing? For safety there is the US Power Squadrons which do an excellent job at educating boaters. For youth programs there are yacht clubs. For the Olympics there is sponsorship. The Olymipics has ceased to be a nation against nation competition, it is a professional racing environment just like the AC and should get its funding just as they do; a crazy rich benefactor, yacht club or corporate sponsorship. Get back to a simple mission statement and cut the overhead.

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The point has been made here that USSA is a service organization - and USSA needs to figure out who it's customers are -

 

The everyday racer? -no

The everyday race boat owner? - no

 

The needs of the above are serviced by class associations, regional authorities, and individual clubs

 

It is the regional authorities and clubs that are the clients to the USSA - the class associations are for the most part already serviced by the ISAF

 

USSA should represent the US interests of the individual clubs and regional authorities to the ISAF - train judges - and administrate the US Olympic stuff, and that's about it.

 

And let’s not forget the regional issues – a 5 hour plane ride to and from the west coast, and a 4 hour time difference leads to what can only be described as a “Not Invented Here”, and “Out of sight, out of mind” mentality. Quite honestly - the west coast of the US might be better served by an East Pacific Yacht Racing Assoc. – but that’s a different thread

 

and don’t start on the USSA “championships” – I raced a C of C 20 years ago – what a bad experience – never again. Individual Class National Champs, NAs, and Worlds are far more important.

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RE: Frontpage Post About Required US Sailing Membership to Race

 

(Yes, there is a front page)

 

What are they thinking? If their goal is to actually increase racing participation, this will kill off the casual (and potentially more serious later) racer segment. Its one thing to give some money to the local club that organizes the races, parties and gatherings. But having to give money to something most people hardly even knows exists????

The following from the front page doesn't tell the whole story:

re: Membership of US Sailing

 

If you think that proposal is draconian (See Required? below) try the Australian addition to the racing rules of RRS 55:

 

"55 Yachting Australia prescribes that except in an international event, any crew member that sails in more than 3 races in any one sailing season, shall be a member of a club affiliated to an MYA and a member of an MYA and Yachting Australia." ( MYA is the State authority).

 

So not only do you have to pay your club fees but also a nice little additional impost of around $50 for the dubious honour of being a member of the yachting association. All makes good sense for the regular sailor who probably gets value out of the work that yachting administration does (someone has to do it or the sport would fall apart).

 

On the other hand the casual "beer can race" guest is supposed to only come along three times a season. How are we ever to get them keen enough to eventually join up? Fortunately most clubs are sensible enough to ignore it and we just get on with sailing.

 

03/18/08

 

 

Yacht clubs can (and do) obtain exemptions from Yachting Australia in regards to this membership rule for twilight races, beer-cans, charity days etc. The amount that goes to YA is about $36 which is included in your club membership fee. The club passes it on to YA, just like subs in other sports. If you are a member of more than one club you only pay the YA fee once. In return you get personal accident insurance when you are involved in yachting activities (not just racing). YA also provides support services, develops training materials etc. I'm not an apologist for YA but think it's a pretty good deal really. I think it gives me as a participant and the sport itself some credibility.

 

Not sure of the exact issues with US Sailing and have not read all five pages of posts but if US Sailing is not doing the sort of job that YA or the RYA is then it should.

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The point has been made here that USSA is a service organization - and USSA needs to figure out who it's customers are -

 

The everyday racer? -no

The everyday race boat owner? - no

 

The needs of the above are serviced by class associations, regional authorities, and individual clubs

 

It is the regional authorities and clubs that are the clients to the USSA - the class associations are for the most part already serviced by the ISAF

 

USSA should represent the US interests of the individual clubs and regional authorities to the ISAF - train judges - and administrate the US Olympic stuff, and that's about it.

 

And let's not forget the regional issues – a 5 hour plane ride to and from the west coast, and a 4 hour time difference leads to what can only be described as a "Not Invented Here", and "Out of sight, out of mind" mentality. Quite honestly - the west coast of the US might be better served by an East Pacific Yacht Racing Assoc. – but that's a different thread

 

and don't start on the USSA "championships" – I raced a C of C 20 years ago – what a bad experience – never again. Individual Class National Champs, NAs, and Worlds are far more important.

That is exactly why they are failing currently. They need to represent and connect with the everyday racer. Give that racer the level playing field that the organization sought when it was formed. Govern on a national level and mediate the politics of local regions.

 

Training the judges is fine but where the organization fails miserably is in getting those judges to events, especially where International Juries are required. Small classes must take on this expense (several thousand dollars) for an event. If USS wanted to help out the sport they could subsidize these types of expenses and keep down regatta costs, or add value.

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An old friend of mine from US Sailing saw my posts, and was thinking about commenting on the ones related to the US Ailing website, but he wishes his name not be used for fear of retribution and asked that I post this for the purpose of everyone here getting a former "web liaison's view of their website. I'm not sure what my friend is afraid of exactly - US Sailing is as toothless as they come....

 

Anyway - I'm just the messenger - read it and weep....

 

Peter Huston

 

 

I was an early web liaison for a committee in US SAILING. Understand that US SAILING hired a professional webmaster to build the structure, but left the content (words, pictures, links, etc.) to the web liaison appointed by each committee (much like you guys type into this forum and post pics, while Scot provides the structure). The professional webmaster also provided training to the web liaisons. The volume of information that has been put on the website truly has been amazing, which is also its downfall. Everything everyone has pointed out in this thread about the performance of the website is true. The biggest structure problem is finding what you are looking for. But in defense of the website, it has more products, services, committees, etc. than Ford, GM, Toyota & GE combined and making it easy for anyone to find what they want with one click has been an ongoing struggle. Fortunately they did add the Google search engine to the site last year, which has been a big help (try using it). I proposed many different solutions to finding what one is looking for, but nobody wanted to listen or even attempt to try different solutions (If one didn't work, toss it and try another. They're just grains of sand). With no one addressing this issue and not even trying different solutions, don't expect this to get better.

 

Last year, the decision was made to overhaul the website for the 3rd time in 10 years. What occurred is that the professional webmaster went section by section and put in the new "look." Once he started, it became known immediately that he was breaking links all over the place, moving page titles around that didn't match the pages, and leaving a wide path of destruction in his wake. At a glance, you think it is alright, but in real use it wasn't working. You all see it when you go to the site and click on things that aren't linked any longer, you know I am not making this up!

 

Under the overhaul of 2007, the webmaster no longer offered support to the volunteers. The software the volunteers were trained on no longer worked. Passwords didn't work. Online forms for gathering information didn't work. Once I was able to login after being knocked out of it for 6 months, I was able to see what the professional webmaster had done. The software provided a variety of reports to tell you things, like how many links are broken (and where they are so you can go fix them). After assessing the damage that was done by the professional webmaster (I estimated it would take three weeks of time including weekends to repair), and the fact that he does not respond to phone calls, or emails, I went right to Leighton and Capron. Now when this was brought to the attention of Leighton and Capron, well, we already learned that Leighton doesn't even know how to email, so the subject went over the top of his head. And much to my disappointment, Capron wasn't familiar with web terminology and came back that he was extremely happy with the outcome of the web overhaul praising the efforts of the professional webmaster. Capron was confusing the Database project with the Web overhaul in my discussion with him and I tried to separate the two topics from one another in his mind. He really had the two topics scrambled in his mind. It would have taken hours for him to understand the difference. There is a very small amount of tying the web and database together in spots here and there, but it is a very small decimal amount on the website. The leader of the web liaison group (volunteer) also was back slapping everyone saying it was a great job done by the professional webmaster. All I wanted was some training to learn how to keep going on the job and there was no reason to gloss over the work the professional webmaster did, people had to learn how terrible the work done was.

 

I am extremely proud of my work done on the website, I think I had eight years put into it. I had a phenomenal team of committee members to draw from, truly a great intelligent group of committee members, some scary smart! The content wasn't mine, it was gathered from a very wide variety of sources. It took a team, but it took one grunt (me) to put it on the website in a presentable form. I'll bet many of you have visited that section of the website, as it is the second most important section of the US SAILING website according to a survey.

 

Well we learned that the professional webmaster left a few months ago. If I hastened his departure, then I accomplished something phenomenally good for the organization. He should have left before he even started and they should fire the guy who hired him. But the big dogs on top won't understand this, because they are too proud of what was done.

 

Eventually it was determined that I was not being a team player with the big dogs, and was asked to resign. That happened in a New York minute. I put in my time, it was enjoyable, I made some really great friends across the country. Of course they haven't found anyone to replace me which means that the maintenance and fixing of links and titles and broken forms continues on. I don't like seeing this, and wished they would get into reality. The professional / volunteer model was a great one (it works well at SA too!). US SAILING would be well advised to go back to that model.

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There are lots of us who think that this is a nutty proposal who are not sitting on the sidelines, but are very active running regattas in our area and already have a hard time justifying the amount of time and energy we spend volunteering for the sport, but we do it because we really do care about it. I had a conversation earlier today with someone heavily involved with USS who suggested that I need to volunteer and attend the meetings. I wanted to puke in the phone, that is such a cop out disrespectful response to a long time dues paying member. USS is a service organization and needs to figure out how to provide services that the constituants consider valuable enough that they won't have to be "ruled" into joining.

 

Ron White

Chief Measurer

CYC Race to Mackinac

 

HERE HERE !!!!

 

This belongs to you...

beer.jpg

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What would it take to start a sailing association that is actually useful? With SA, we could get the first 1,000 members within 30 days. It sounds like USSA has too much mass to make a timely turn around there is an opportunity to create a competitor from scratch.

 

With fuel going through the roof, they are a bunch of water babies out there who want to be on the water but can no longer afford to be a stink potter. I think we have a pool of new recruits to the sport we could reach out to.

 

The association could even support a club racer design like Mumm did.

 

We could restore grandad's rusty oldsmobile (USSA) or go buy us a new Honda Roadster. To extend this metaphor, consider if grandpa thought there was nothing wrong with his POS Oldmobile. That is where we are.

 

Ideas?

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Sorry if this one is a little off topic but i think a little perspective is a good thing. Whats happens when the Coast Guard mandates licensing for all persons in charge and helmsmen aboard every boat on the water. I'm sure the test won't be as complicated as the OUPV but something similar to a drivers license for cars on the road. A police officer or coastie could pull you over mid race after a lousy takedown and say license, registration, and proof of insurance please. You'd ask, "why'd I get pulled over?" the officer would say "you were driving erratically around the buoy near those other sailboats" If you didn't have any of those documents they would call for backup, search your boat on probable cause, and start writing tickets for required equipment. Not to mention your bowman gets arrested for that old parking ticket he forgot to pay at last years big race...and oh ya "have you been drinking today sir?" I wonder if US Sailing might be trying to beat the Coast Guard to the punch on this one or maybe they know something that the general public doesn't. Who would you rather be licensed by?

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Dude,

 

there are a great many of us that have been completely disenfranchised by US Sailing and told that they don't want our input, help or advice.

 

So you know what? If they want to sit in their Ivory Tower and attempt to dictate how we are supposed to spend our money and refuse our input. Fine. But don't sit there and lecture us about the efficacy of our complaints without contributing.

 

PLease tell us who/what/whatever about being told US SAILING does not want you or your input, help or advice.

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PLease tell us who/what/whatever about being told US SAILING does not want you or your input, help or advice.

 

 

Hey Shamster, I'm still waiting for you explanation how membership is increasing and the president calls it flat. Why do you make this stuff up? How is that helping anyone believe in your cause?

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An old friend of mine from US Sailing saw my posts, and was thinking about commenting on the ones related to the US Ailing website, but he wishes his name not be used for fear of retribution and asked that I post this for the purpose of everyone here getting a former "web liaison's view of their website. I'm not sure what my friend is afraid of exactly - US Sailing is as toothless as they come....

 

Anyway - I'm just the messenger - read it and weep....

 

Peter Huston

I was an early web liaison for a committee in US SAILING. Understand that US SAILING hired a professional webmaster to build the structure, but left the content (words, pictures, links, etc.) to the web liaison appointed by each committee (much like you guys type into this forum and post pics, while Scot provides the structure). The professional webmaster also provided training to the web liaisons. The volume of information that has been put on the website truly has been amazing, which is also its downfall. Everything everyone has pointed out in this thread about the performance of the website is true. The biggest structure problem is finding what you are looking for. But in defense of the website, it has more products, services, committees, etc. than Ford, GM, Toyota & GE combined and making it easy for anyone to find what they want with one click has been an ongoing struggle. Fortunately they did add the Google search engine to the site last year, which has been a big help (try using it). I proposed many different solutions to finding what one is looking for, but nobody wanted to listen or even attempt to try different solutions (If one didn't work, toss it and try another. They're just grains of sand). With no one addressing this issue and not even trying different solutions, don't expect this to get better.

 

Last year, the decision was made to overhaul the website for the 3rd time in 10 years. What occurred is that the professional webmaster went section by section and put in the new "look." Once he started, it became known immediately that he was breaking links all over the place, moving page titles around that didn't match the pages, and leaving a wide path of destruction in his wake. At a glance, you think it is alright, but in real use it wasn't working. You all see it when you go to the site and click on things that aren't linked any longer, you know I am not making this up!

 

Under the overhaul of 2007, the webmaster no longer offered support to the volunteers. The software the volunteers were trained on no longer worked. Passwords didn't work. Online forms for gathering information didn't work. Once I was able to login after being knocked out of it for 6 months, I was able to see what the professional webmaster had done. The software provided a variety of reports to tell you things, like how many links are broken (and where they are so you can go fix them). After assessing the damage that was done by the professional webmaster (I estimated it would take three weeks of time including weekends to repair), and the fact that he does not respond to phone calls, or emails, I went right to Leighton and Capron. Now when this was brought to the attention of Leighton and Capron, well, we already learned that Leighton doesn't even know how to email, so the subject went over the top of his head. And much to my disappointment, Capron wasn't familiar with web terminology and came back that he was extremely happy with the outcome of the web overhaul praising the efforts of the professional webmaster. Capron was confusing the Database project with the Web overhaul in my discussion with him and I tried to separate the two topics from one another in his mind. He really had the two topics scrambled in his mind. It would have taken hours for him to understand the difference. There is a very small amount of tying the web and database together in spots here and there, but it is a very small decimal amount on the website. The leader of the web liaison group (volunteer) also was back slapping everyone saying it was a great job done by the professional webmaster. All I wanted was some training to learn how to keep going on the job and there was no reason to gloss over the work the professional webmaster did, people had to learn how terrible the work done was.

 

I am extremely proud of my work done on the website, I think I had eight years put into it. I had a phenomenal team of committee members to draw from, truly a great intelligent group of committee members, some scary smart! The content wasn't mine, it was gathered from a very wide variety of sources. It took a team, but it took one grunt (me) to put it on the website in a presentable form. I'll bet many of you have visited that section of the website, as it is the second most important section of the US SAILING website according to a survey.

 

Well we learned that the professional webmaster left a few months ago. If I hastened his departure, then I accomplished something phenomenally good for the organization. He should have left before he even started and they should fire the guy who hired him. But the big dogs on top won't understand this, because they are too proud of what was done.

 

Eventually it was determined that I was not being a team player with the big dogs, and was asked to resign. That happened in a New York minute. I put in my time, it was enjoyable, I made some really great friends across the country. Of course they haven't found anyone to replace me which means that the maintenance and fixing of links and titles and broken forms continues on. I don't like seeing this, and wished they would get into reality. The professional / volunteer model was a great one (it works well at SA too!). US SAILING would be well advised to go back to that model.

 

 

Really, this guy sounds like a complainer, and wasn't part of the solution. But did fall into the U.S. Sailing motto that "no good deed goes unpunished."

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I am a member of US Sailing (have been for nearly 2 decades).

I am also (for my sins) class Prez of a growing Class Association.

On my watch, the class has joined US Sailing as a Class Association member.

On my watch, we require that all skippers competing in the Viper North American Championships are members of US Sailing.

I have attended the US Sailing One Design Class Association Symposium (paid with my own not class funds)

 

I am clearly a real fan and supporter of US Sailing........BUT.....in the spirit of feedback:-

 

1. More Transparency.

2. More Accountability to the membership.

3. More Grass Roots involvement in sailboat racing.

 

Here are a few data points:-

1. Most of my members have never seen a US Sailing director. In paticular, you are not out there at regattas etc, explaining what US Sailing does and you are not out there asking your members what they would like US Sailing to do for them.

2. Each year, each member pays more to US Sailing than to their class association. Ask them which they think is better value.

3. There is undeniable discontent about the selection process for 2012 olympic classes. Whatever our individual views on multihulls, you should be out there explaining how and why we voted the way we did....and more importantly seeking a transparent mechanism for obtaining the views of US Sailing members.

4. What percentage of US Sailing members voted for the officer roster at Us Sailing.

 

Here's a few ideas.

1. Attend Class Association annual meetings. Ask for input. Explain what you do and how you spend their money.

2. Make a representative available at major regattas. Ask for input. Explain what you do. You're invited to send someone to Marblehead Race Week (Right there, that's an audience of 400+ boats and their crews). I'm sure CRW, the NOOD organization and many others would give US Sailing a half hour platform.

3. Get to know your membership!!!

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Hey Shamster, I'm still waiting for you explanation how membership is increasing and the president calls it flat. Why do you make this stuff up? How is that helping anyone believe in your cause?

 

Ok, I was too quick with the response. Membership is flat, revenues are up. You are correct! My bad.

 

I guess my biggest point to get across is from my perspective, the sky is not falling. It is not so bad out there. My glass is half full, and I am optimistic about the efforts US SAILING is putting into improving itself, for all of us. It has a way to go, no doubt, but I think it is moving in the right direction. I think there are a lot of questions to be answered and details to be worked out, but required membership will ultimatele be a good move. There will be a painful and uncomfortable period of adjustment before it settles out.

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I am a member of US Sailing (have been for nearly 2 decades).

I am also (for my sins) class Prez of a growing Class Association.

On my watch, the class has joined US Sailing as a Class Association member.

On my watch, we require that all skippers competing in the Viper North American Championships are members of US Sailing.

I have attended the US Sailing One Design Class Association Symposium (paid with my own not class funds)

 

I am clearly a real fan and supporter of US Sailing........BUT.....in the spirit of feedback:-

 

1. More Transparency.

2. More Accountability to the membership.

3. More Grass Roots involvement in sailboat racing.

 

Here are a few data points:-

1. Most of my members have never seen a US Sailing director. In paticular, you are not out there at regattas etc, explaining what US Sailing does and you are not out there asking your members what they would like US Sailing to do for them.

2. Each year, each member pays more to US Sailing than to their class association. Ask them which they think is better value.

3. There is undeniable discontent about the selection process for 2012 olympic classes. Whatever our individual views on multihulls, you should be out there explaining how and why we voted the way we did....and more importantly seeking a transparent mechanism for obtaining the views of US Sailing members.

4. What percentage of US Sailing members voted for the officer roster at Us Sailing.

 

Here's a few ideas.

1. Attend Class Association annual meetings. Ask for input. Explain what you do and how you spend their money.

2. Make a representative available at major regattas. Ask for input. Explain what you do. You're invited to send someone to Marblehead Race Week (Right there, that's an audience of 400+ boats and their crews). I'm sure CRW, the NOOD organization and many others would give US Sailing a half hour platform.

3. Get to know your membership!!!

 

Just for comparison, what does one get for a paid Viper 640 Class membership?

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here's some thing that pop into my head completely random and out of order:

 

1) If i'm part of a national organisation i expect to get a magazine. that doesn't happen with US Sailing since sailing world broke from them.

 

2) not all sailors are racers so be of some use to non-racers. help them develop their skills, help them get insurance for their boats whatever.

 

3) have a website that's worth something. SERIOUSLY.

 

4) National administration of PHRF rather than trying to stuff IRC down people's throats. IRC has it's place but everybody knows PHRF is what make sense for most of us and I think that sensible people can agree on ways to make PHRF better and USSailing should take a lead in this area.

 

5) The Portsmouth rating system is ridiculously poor. The ratings are pretty crappy relative to the UK ones, only a relatively small number of clubs participate, USSailing provides little or no support to the participating clubs e.g. race reporting software, forms, equipment lists, guidelines etc, the ratings are provided in a crappy format.

 

6) Support for racing at clubs. USSailing touts their race officer training and our club has had several members trained as PROs but it is fairly expensive and very low key. Does USSailing help promote your regattas, do they provide support for your regattas or local club racing

 

7) A fricken TV show. The goddamn paintballers and table tennis people can get on TV. i'm tired of hearing excuses why we can't even have a monthly 1/2 hr show

 

8) US Sailing sail training is a joke. The RYA system is the benchmark. US Sailing should not even mention their system until it is even close to the RYA's.

 

9) I have no particular experience but US Sailing needs to provide some serious support for racing insurance for sailboats. More clubs and regattas/races are requiring pretty significant levels of insurance and USSailing doesn't help much in this area.

 

10) Advocacy/lobbying for sailors. We continuously see legislation being passed that is adverse to sailors, particularly with regard to access to waterways, yet USSailing doesn't seem to be involved. Other boating organizations do a much better job at this. USSailing should also be involved in ensuring that our waterways are clean.

 

11) USSailing has pissed off a lot people in their short-sighted, ingorant decisions regarding Olympic class selection. I forsee a lot of multi sailing USSailing members letting their membership lapse.

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Really - what would it take for those of you who are not US SAILING members to join?

For me it's simple: US-Sailing would have to recognize and support iceboating.

 

"Hard water" sailing is a small minority of the US sailing community, but we do get an average of over 90 boats on the line for the DN North-American and World Championship regattas.

 

'till then, they got nuthin for me.

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IT (instructor trainer) and those candidates are chosen on the same secret system they seem to use for everything.

 

what?

 

look, there are many criticsms of US SAILING that are perfectly justified, I've used many of them myself over the last 20+ years, and I've done my fair share of work for and with that organization. For the record much of what you types was valid. But there's nothing secret about how you get certified as an IT, and it's actually not all that easy, which IMO is as it should be.

 

seriously, I think a pretty decent percentage of the criticism on this thread is total crap shat out of people's asses.

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I am a member of US Sailing (have been for nearly 2 decades).

I am also (for my sins) class Prez of a growing Class Association.

On my watch, the class has joined US Sailing as a Class Association member.

On my watch, we require that all skippers competing in the Viper North American Championships are members of US Sailing.

I have attended the US Sailing One Design Class Association Symposium (paid with my own not class funds)

 

I am clearly a real fan and supporter of US Sailing........BUT.....in the spirit of feedback:-

 

1. More Transparency.

2. More Accountability to the membership.

3. More Grass Roots involvement in sailboat racing.

 

Here are a few data points:-

1. Most of my members have never seen a US Sailing director. In paticular, you are not out there at regattas etc, explaining what US Sailing does and you are not out there asking your members what they would like US Sailing to do for them.

2. Each year, each member pays more to US Sailing than to their class association. Ask them which they think is better value.

3. There is undeniable discontent about the selection process for 2012 olympic classes. Whatever our individual views on multihulls, you should be out there explaining how and why we voted the way we did....and more importantly seeking a transparent mechanism for obtaining the views of US Sailing members.

4. What percentage of US Sailing members voted for the officer roster at Us Sailing.

 

Here's a few ideas.

1. Attend Class Association annual meetings. Ask for input. Explain what you do and how you spend their money.

2. Make a representative available at major regattas. Ask for input. Explain what you do. You're invited to send someone to Marblehead Race Week (Right there, that's an audience of 400+ boats and their crews). I'm sure CRW, the NOOD organization and many others would give US Sailing a half hour platform.

3. Get to know your membership!!!

 

 

Why do you require US Sailing membership? I understand class membership to participate in championship regattas, but I'm not seeing the need to be a member of US Sailing.

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How about local control?

 

Fixing USS means a total bureaucracy flush. What I mean by that?

 

USS is divided into regions. but the seat of USS power is back East. Why doesn't the bulk of the dues for the area I live in (area J) which includes So Cal, Arizona and Nevada stay in this area goverened by a local board that is responsive and in touch with the needs of this area. Kind of like the States of the US are set up.

 

The President of each area is on the USS national council that elects its own leader from the ranks of the council. The only thing the USS nationally does is sell trinkets and set standards. Each area should be responsible for its own fund raising, membership and championship regatta management. This could also mean that USS may be able to cuts is paid staff as the local areas will be run mostly by volunteers that want to improve it's areas sailing.

 

The US is too big of a physical region for one national organization to manage. The people have different needs across the whole area. We can have a small blanket organization to bring together the self governed areas. USS in my opinion is so out of touch with the needs of an area like J, where there is year round sailing and sailing venues are more spread out.

 

Maybe this is a total cluster Fk that I have suggested too.

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Ok, I was too quick with the response. Membership is flat, revenues are up. You are correct! My bad.

 

I guess my biggest point to get across is from my perspective, the sky is not falling. It is not so bad out there. My glass is half full, and I am optimistic about the efforts US SAILING is putting into improving itself, for all of us. It has a way to go, no doubt, but I think it is moving in the right direction. I think there are a lot of questions to be answered and details to be worked out, but required membership will ultimatele be a good move. There will be a painful and uncomfortable period of adjustment before it settles out.

 

 

Please explain - "but I think it is moving in the right direction." - which direction US Sailing is moving in.

 

Please explain the exact benefits of this statement of yours - "required membership will ultimatele be a good move."

 

Good move for whom? And why?

 

And while you are at it, why don't you identify yourself, and your specific experience within US Sailing? Otherwise, you are just another posing poster with a screen name, with no credibility.

 

Peter Huston

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Dude,

 

there are a great many of us that have been completely disenfranchised by US Sailing and told that they don't want our input, help or advice.

 

So you know what? If they want to sit in their Ivory Tower and attempt to dictate how we are supposed to spend our money and refuse our input. Fine. But don't sit there and lecture us about the efficacy of our complaints without contributing.

 

 

Antony - you know guy Sham69 must be a real piece of work to come here and flame people like he is - in one response to an earlier post of mine where I ask if he is really Chuck Leighton or Jim Capron, he says that I say who he is - and then he tells all of us with some rather significant experience within the organization to all go fuck off.

 

And the subhead of this thread is what?

 

So, probably this Sham69 is just power that wanna be...

 

It's too bad that the whole of US Sailing gets trashed - but the reality is that most people know it is only a couple of bad apples that screw things up - the vast majority of people who support US Sailing do so purely for the love of the sport, spend alot of time and money in the process, asking for nada in return.

 

And this clown Sham69 - who doesn't have the balls to post under his or her own name - wants to pick a fight with anyone who doesn't support the new regime, and yet claims to be either Chuck Leighton or Jim Capron - and if it is either of them (and I highly doubt it is either, mostly because they are technology adverse, and couldn't be caught dead reading SA), or some employee or Board member, then this continued response from Sham69 is all we need to know, as if we needed anything further, to understand why US Sailing is meaningless in the scheme of things related to yacht racing in the US.

 

We should all support the volunteers who run races, or help to run a class, or event, some of whom have gained experience without any help from US Sailing, in every respect, but put the Portsmouth, RI office on ignore.

 

Peter Huston

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How about local control?

 

Fixing USS means a total bureaucracy flush. What I mean by that?

 

USS is divided into regions. but the seat of USS power is back East. Why doesn't the bulk of the dues for the area I live in (area J) which includes So Cal, Arizona and Nevada stay in this area goverened by a local board that is responsive and in touch with the needs of this area. Kind of like the States of the US are set up.

 

The President of each area is on the USS national council that elects its own leader from the ranks of the council. The only thing the USS nationally does is sell trinkets and set standards. Each area should be responsible for its own fund raising, membership and championship regatta management. This could also mean that USS may be able to cuts is paid staff as the local areas will be run mostly by volunteers that want to improve it's areas sailing.

 

The US is too big of a physical region for one national organization to manage. The people have different needs across the whole area. We can have a small blanket organization to bring together the self governed areas. USS in my opinion is so out of touch with the needs of an area like J, where there is year round sailing and sailing venues are more spread out.

 

Maybe this is a total cluster Fk that I have suggested too.

 

They are doing just the opposite of giving local conrol. They are centralizing many operations that would otherwise be taken care of locally. If I had to guess they would rather see the local regional sailing association go away...organizations such as the New England Yacht Racing Council (the area A governing body) will be extinct soon as the gulf between the local clubs and US Sailing becomes even larger. My fear is that they will continue to become an out of touch leviathan.

 

I hate to say this but they are out of touch with more than just area J. They have missed out on whole demographic sets. The future of our sport is the juniors...they need to spend a LOT more time thinking of how to keep kids in boats past highschool and college. Quite honestly, they are doing a horrible job right now and I don't see many members of my generation spending money on sailboats. The ones that do outwardly complain that US Sailing does, and means, nothing to them.

 

To Sham - I will never get involved with an organization that has treated me as rude as they did....and I was just asking for my score on a test (so I could get more involved). Kind of ironical!

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Really, this guy sounds like a complainer, and wasn't part of the solution. But did fall into the U.S. Sailing motto that "no good deed goes unpunished."

 

 

Actually Delta, the person who sent this to me is someone who works their butt off for the sport - in far more ways than someone like Sham69 could ever possibly imagine. This person just wishes to remain anonymous for the time being - so had me stick it in here because of the many posts that bitch about the website.

 

The person who sent this to me also happens to a very experienced sailor, and serves frequently on their local race and protest committees.

 

You could not find a more dedicated person to the sport, and one who supported US Sailing, in public, many times, often in opposition to positions I would take. We would always have a healthy debate, and both come to a better understanding of an issue, and probably both walk away with a different and more enlightened perspective.

 

Which of course meant that person had no further place within the structure of US Sailing, where debate is not allowed. It's Chuck Leighton's way, or the highway.

 

Personally, I hope my friend puts their foot to the floor, and boogies down the highway as fast as he can, and gets as far away as he can, and goes to work with the same passion he had for US Sailing within their own regional network.

 

Actually, in a Freakonomic's sort of way, maybe the best thing for the sport in the US these days is the way US Sailing is driving so many of us away from them, and back into the work we do at the local/regional level. Just like Tip O'Neil said "All Politics Is Local", so too is the vast majority of sailing.

 

I love the ad tag line that US Sailing uses - "Your Passion. Organized". Is their new tag line going to be "Your Passion. Dictated."?

 

So Delta, I hope this gives you a little bit better insight into what some people who served USYRU/US Sailing long and well think and feel.

 

The fundamental fact is that participation in the sport of yacht racing as a whole isn't effected one iota by one single thing that US Sailing does. In fact, the numbers of people racing now as opposed to 20 years ago may actually be less. That is the joke of US Sailing - they talk about their gross revenues as growth - when the primary thing that should be measured to evaluate their performance are the number of people racing sailboats.

 

So, let's hope that regional sailing associations prosper because of the lameness that Chuck Leighton has brought to US Sailing.

 

Peter Huston

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As a further follow up to "required" I would also like to point out that not only do we ALL have to fork out money to be apart of YA (Yachting Aust) as per a deal that YA dreampt up with the affiliated clubs - but that if you are a Member of more than one Yacht Club you are now FORCED to be a Multiple Member of YA.

In very simple terms this now means that you have the same YA Member number and rights and bonuses (Ha Ha !!) but you pay it twice - or three times.

I had this out with YA - and their reply was that if I was not happy with this system of paying twice - in my case 3 times for 3 clubs - that as it was not their YA fault or problem - that what I should do is to quit the clubs that I am a member of.

So here was a body that is meant to be helping sailing and the clubs who support sailing and their advise to me was to figure out which club I liked the best and quit the rest - I was always under the opinion that if you liked and used a club or venue that the most important thing that you could do was to get behind them and the best way to show this support was to be a FULLY PAID UP MEMBER.

The deal that YA now has with the clubs in Victoria is a farce - YA does now not have to be accountable to 30k (?) of members - nor do they have to send out accounts to all of their (sic) members - they just bill the 88 or so clubs and the clubs pay YA a set ammount of dollars - in some cases over $22K as administration costs - and then it is up to the clubs to "on charge" all members a determined ammount ON TOP OF FEES - to cover this charge. This is how the multple charging to members comes about, if you a re a multple club member - YA automatically get a double dip, and with about between 5 and 10% of club members being multple club members - this sees greedy YA pocket about an EXTRA $112,500.00 per year for doing NOTHING - not even their job of billing their members - this they now make the clubs do !!

So on top of now not having to worry about the general public side of sailing members -they only have to send out 88 or so accounts compared to over 30k - saving a heap in admin and posting costs, plus no not having to answer to anyone except the clubs as we are no longer direct members - if we have problems take it up with the clubs.

 

What a cop out - but as they say - Nice work if you can get it. It is a rort and something should be done about it.

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Antony - you know guy Sham69 must be a real piece of work to come here and flame people like he is - in one response to an earlier post of mine where I ask if he is really Chuck Leighton or Jim Capron, he says that I say who he is - and then he tells all of us with some rather significant experience within the organization to all go fuck off.

 

And the subhead of this thread is what?

 

So, probably this Sham69 is just power that wanna be...

 

It's too bad that the whole of US Sailing gets trashed - but the reality is that most people know it is only a couple of bad apples that screw things up - the vast majority of people who support US Sailing do so purely for the love of the sport, spend alot of time and money in the process, asking for nada in return.

 

And this clown Sham69 - who doesn't have the balls to post under his or her own name - wants to pick a fight with anyone who doesn't support the new regime, and yet claims to be either Chuck Leighton or Jim Capron - and if it is either of them (and I highly doubt it is either, mostly because they are technology adverse, and couldn't be caught dead reading SA), or some employee or Board member, then this continued response from Sham69 is all we need to know, as if we needed anything further, to understand why US Sailing is meaningless in the scheme of things related to yacht racing in the US.

 

We should all support the volunteers who run races, or help to run a class, or event, some of whom have gained experience without any help from US Sailing, in every respect, but put the Portsmouth, RI office on ignore.

 

Peter Huston

 

Peter, you are a bitter man. Sorry dude. It'll get better for you. You have so much energy. I encourage you to start your own sailing nation. You tried it in So Cal, but perhaps it is time to try again. From reading your posts, it sounds like you could have a membership larger than US SAILING in no time and be so much better than anything else the sailing world has ever seen. Go for it dude.

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Peter, you are a bitter man. Sorry dude. It'll get better for you. You have so much energy. I encourage you to start your own sailing nation. You tried it in So Cal, but perhaps it is time to try again. From reading your posts, it sounds like you could have a membership larger than US SAILING in no time and be so much better than anything else the sailing world has ever seen. Go for it dude.

If you and the rest of the R.I. blue-blazer mafia go ahead with your idiotic mandatory membership, I've a feeling that Peter and some of the other folks around here won't have too much trouble getting a better organization started and membered up.

 

This is quickly becoming a transparent world, and US Sailing had better realize it soon.

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Peter, you are a bitter man. Sorry dude. It'll get better for you. You have so much energy. I encourage you to start your own sailing nation. You tried it in So Cal, but perhaps it is time to try again. From reading your posts, it sounds like you could have a membership larger than US SAILING in no time and be so much better than anything else the sailing world has ever seen. Go for it dude.

 

 

Sham69 - so exactly what have ever done in the sport?

 

You ever race a sailboat, work on a race committee, do anything meaningful to help junior sailing?

 

Until you identify yourself, and tell us your credentials, you are just another posting poser with a screen name.

 

Peter Huston

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Sham69 - so exactly what have ever done in the sport?

 

You ever race a sailboat, work on a race committee, do anything meaningful to help junior sailing?

 

Until you identify yourself, and tell us your credentials, you are just another posting poser with a screen name.

 

Peter Huston

 

You know, Peter and Clean could be on to something. But why wait for US SAILING to implode. Start your Peter Clean Sailing Club now. Oh and by the way, claiming to have been to 20 something odd US SAILING meetings and served on General Services is pretty good stuff. But it it don't mean shit Buddy if you take that effort and spew in a forum. Im pulling for you guys.

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If you and the rest of the R.I. blue-blazer mafia go ahead with your idiotic mandatory membership, I've a feeling that Peter and some of the other folks around here won't have too much trouble getting a better organization started and membered up.

 

This is quickly becoming a transparent world, and US Sailing had better realize it soon.

 

 

Thanks for the support Clean....

 

Didn't this forum really become the defacto clearing house for ideas to help make the sport more vibrant?

 

That's what USYRU was when I got first got involved.

 

Now, US Sailing is all about control and regulation.

 

What is interesting about Sham69 is that he just flicks shit, and won't answer reasonable questions - like why US Sailing needs more money? And what they will do with it once they get it.

 

This thread has proven there is clearly so much dissatisfaction with US Sailing, and so little need for them, they will die a peaceful death of their own irrelevance.

 

Eventually, the free market will prevail.

 

The market leader will be the one that sells fun.

 

And the likes of Chuck Leighton, Jim Capron, Dean Brenner and Gary Jobson couldn't spell fun if you spotted them the F. and the U.

 

Peter Huston

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You know, Peter and Clean could be on to something. But why wait for US SAILING to implode. Start your Peter Clean Sailing Club now. Oh and by the way, claiming to have been to 20 something odd US SAILING meetings and served on General Services is pretty good stuff. But it it don't mean shit Buddy if you take that effort and spew in a forum. Im pulling for you guys.

 

I'm starting to suspect that sham69 hates US Sailing more than Peter does. By appearing to be part of the org and then talking like such an idiot, he makes the whole bunch look this defensive and dumb. Someone that is part of US SAILING wouldn't be that incredibly stupid, would they?

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You know, Peter and Clean could be on to something. But why wait for US SAILING to implode. Start your Peter Clean Sailing Club now. Oh and by the way, claiming to have been to 20 something odd US SAILING meetings and served on General Services is pretty good stuff. But it it don't mean shit Buddy if you take that effort and spew in a forum. Im pulling for you guys.

 

Ed - the ad hominem attacks on Peter probably don't bother Peter, but they leave me feeling that Sham has outlived his usefullness. Give him the flick and ask him to come back as someone who uses his name. The issue of a national body for sailing and all it could do for sailors is too important to let a troll direct the conversation.

 

Bcam - Bruce Campbell

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Ed - the ad hominem attacks on Peter probably don't bother Peter, but they leave me feeling that Sham has outlived his usefullness. Give him the flick and ask him to come back as someone who uses his name. The issue of a national body for sailing and all it could do for sailors is too important to let a troll direct the conversation.

 

Bcam - Bruce Campbell

 

 

Thanks Bruce - not sure if we've ever met, but I appreciate the support.

 

Naw, let's let Sham69 live here. He'll reveal himself soon enough - guys like this just can't help themselves.

 

If it turns out that he works for, is a Board or other Committee member of US Sailing, he's got some Code of Ethics issues.

 

You just have to wonder why someone wants to flick shit like this to alot of people who have done alot for the sport, and then won't answer some responsible questions as to why this mandatory membership idea is needed, or helps anyone.

 

Why is this guy so passionate about defending this concept?

 

I'm flattered he feels this threatened that he has to repeatedly try to beat me, and Clean and Delta Blues (whoever that is) into the ground. Means we must threaten him at some level.

 

It will be most unfortunate for US Sailing if it is ever learned exactly who this Sham69 is. Would a real pox on their house if it is who I think it might really be.

 

Thanks again...

 

Peter

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Ed - the ad hominem attacks on Peter probably don't bother Peter, but they leave me feeling that Sham has outlived his usefullness. Give him the flick and ask him to come back as someone who uses his name. The issue of a national body for sailing and all it could do for sailors is too important to let a troll direct the conversation.

 

Bcam - Bruce Campbell

 

 

Oh, by the way, you are now officially member #1 in the Peter & Clean Fun Yachting Society.

 

Your dues payment = $0

 

Peter Huston

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so, i just received the e-newsletter from US sailing that declared that the junior programs are getting financial aid for going to US Sailing championships and what not. it seems like all the money we pay in dues goes to the junior programs or kids going to the olympics. however, think of it- while this is all well and good, these kids are still under the shelter of their parents. what about the college sailing programs? many of the college sailing clubs/teams are not receiving any financial aid from their university and if they do want aid, members would be required to pay up to $200 more in dues. these programs, although, not participating in US sailing regattas, are producing this sports enthusiasts and these are the kids who will soon be thrust into the open world and are more likely to participate in US Sailing events if they have felt firsthand the support of the US Sailing body. not only that, but many college sailors are already US Sailing members because we got certified to teach for the junior programs. a benefit for US Sailing could be if they were to require any team that wanted funding to have every member be a US Sailing member as well. however, if this tactic was used, the club would need to receive funds that are at least twice that of what the club would be handing over in US Sailing membership.

 

i apologize if this topic was already brought up

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US Sailing was and is not interested in pushing IRC. Instead it has dropped a bundle of member's money for pushing its own ORR (more commonly called Americrap). When they discovered they could collect a commission for dispensing IRC (for RORC) certificates and doing absolutely nothing they got involved. US Sailing is simply collecting a toll.

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For any company to get it name attached to any US Sailing function or regatta it should be at the minimum $1mil a year. Thats pretty cheap for the target demo (White upper$$$middle class) they reach.

 

I love sailing but I got more coaching out of a weekend where I paid Betsy Alison to sail with me on a sonar than USS has ever provided at a seminar and it was cheaper too. But boy did I get my ass reamed (verbally).

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Oh, by the way, you are now officially member #1 in the Peter & Clean Fun Yachting Society.

 

Your dues payment = $0

 

Peter Huston

 

Once you start Peter Clean Yottin' Klub, would you do me a personal favor and mail shitty Christmas card samples to Sham69 every year? Oh, and sell his name and address to AGA Correa so they can send him a gold monkey fist (NTTIAWWT).

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I am not a member of US Sailing, and only race locally.

So....maybe someone can explain this to me.

 

I am a member of a sailing association that already makes a dues payment yearly to US Sailing.

 

So, why am I not covered, as far as US Sailing is concerned, under that umbrella? Why force me to separately join US Sailing personally in addition to that? For what purpose, to raise more money? That is bullshit. The motives appear to be completely transparent.

 

It seems like the job US Sailing is supposed to be doing is coordinating shit at the national level. If that is true, charging me $60 at the local level for that job is stupid. If US Sailing is really doing a good job at the national coordination job, then they should also have a firm position supporting raising the dues to the regional offices, and letting the costs filter down to me. Sure, I will pay my share of $5 a year, along with all skippers in the US, via my club or regional organization, to ensure that things are well coordinated nationally and that we send a few guys to the olympics.

 

But this "personal" membership nonsense is nuts IMHO.

 

If all of us US-based racers really do reap the benefits of US Sailing's work, and the intention is to force all of us to pay our share, then implement it in a logical way. And practically speaking, just about the only way to guarantee that US Sailing gets the necessary funds is applying it at the regional/club level.

 

-M

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I'm confident sham69 did not intend for his or her comments to be anything but pro US Sailing, however, he has done more to identify what is wrong with the organization than any other response in this thread.

 

The attitude that sham69 shows here is exactly what many of us think US Sailing's attitude is.

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Why do you require US Sailing membership? I understand class membership to participate in championship regattas, but I'm not seeing the need to be a member of US Sailing.

 

Well.......despite the criticism and while there is plenty of room for improvement:-

 

1. US sailing judges sit on the protest cttees (We've not had a protest yet...but the judges are there)

2. The PRO is trained by US Sailing.

3. Those who participate at the championship level should be giving back to the sport.

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Brain wave............

 

Mr Capron.........don't require US Sailing membership for participating in competitive sailing. Simply require it in order to lodge a protest.

 

1. It achieves your intended objective of getting more sailors who benefit from US Sailing rules and judges to pay their share.

2. It leaves the happy- go- lucky Weds night beer can racer alone.

3. The precedent is already there. The rules require that you are an MNA member in order to file an appeal, simply extend it to filing a protest.

4. BEST OF ALL. It will reduce the number of protests from the duffers that don't even own a rules book.

 

Problem solved.

 

By the way...kudos to Hobie......actually trying to get input for US Sailing......he has my vote for a board seat.

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Peter, you are a bitter man. Sorry dude. It'll get better for you. You have so much energy. I encourage you to start your own sailing nation. You tried it in So Cal, but perhaps it is time to try again. From reading your posts, it sounds like you could have a membership larger than US SAILING in no time and be so much better than anything else the sailing world has ever seen. Go for it dude.

Have you listened to any of these comments? :blink:

 

They all have a common theme that USS is out of step on the local level and moving in the wrong direction. Comments like yours are just the impetus for regional organizations to disassociate from USS and govern themselves. Which I think would be a very good thing.

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And while you are at it, why don't you identify yourself, and your specific experience within US Sailing? Otherwise, you are just another posing poster with a screen name, with no credibility.

 

Peter, you have made some good points, but jesus would you please stop with the obsession of trying to get everyone to tell you who they are. No one cares who anyone else is, that's part of the point of sailing anarchy. it's a FREE and OPEN discussion forum, there are no rules, and nor should there be, about identifying yourself. It's not YOU who gets to decide everyone's "credibility" whatever the living hell that means. if you sail, and you have an opinion, that's all the credibility you need. if you dont like what someone says, bust them for it, or ignore it. but no one cares if you think someone isn't credible, you need a new method of persuasion.

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US Sailing was and is not interested in pushing IRC. Instead it has dropped a bundle of member's money for pushing its own ORR (more commonly called Americrap). When they discovered they could collect a commission for dispensing IRC (for RORC) certificates and doing absolutely nothing they got involved. US Sailing is simply collecting a toll.

 

 

I called bullshit on Shamboy/girl earlier on the membership issue, now I'm calling bullshit on this. IRC is administered out of Europe. How will people in California call England to ask a question? The U.S. needed a local office to: A. Put the data in digestible form for IRC; 2. Review the data and contact the owner about apparent errors before sending it to Europe; 3. Provide answers either via email or phone in real-time (not losing a day each time because of the time difference between the U.S. and Europe); 4. Be responsive to clubs who need guidance and the ratings delivered electronically for their scratch sheets and results; 5 and others I most assuredly missed. Do they get a cut of the action? You bet, but they are performing services for it.

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I called bullshit on Shamboy/girl earlier on the membership issue, now I'm calling bullshit on this. IRC is administered out of Europe. How will people in California call England to ask a question? The U.S. needed a local office to: A. Put the data in digestible form for IRC; 2. Review the data and contact the owner about apparent errors before sending it to Europe; 3. Provide answers either via email or phone in real-time (not losing a day each time because of the time difference between the U.S. and Europe); 4. Be responsive to clubs who need guidance and the ratings delivered electronically for their scratch sheets and results; 5 and others I most assuredly missed. Do they get a cut of the action? You bet, but they are performing services for it.

It's England, not Ethiopia. I'd be pretty shocked to learn that US sailors don't know how to call or email the UK.

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They can't find the +44 key on their phones :lol:

Maybe we're just spoiled by Jen and L_Z's very open participation here. We don't even need to figure out that oh, so complicated international dialing system - PMs work fine.

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Here's the time breakdown -

Wake-up in California

Pacific Time Zone: 7:00 AM

Eastern Time Zone: 10:00 AM

London Time Zone: 2:00 PM

 

Lunch in California

Pacific Time Zone: 12:00 PM

Eastern Time Zone: 3:00 PM

London Time Zone: 7:00 PM

 

Really, you want England to handle getting scratch sheets to the RC on a Friday for Saturdays races? That means that the competitors and the RC (providing the list of entrants for their event) have to be done at 9:00 AM Friday morning and anyone trying to sign up after this time on Friday is DOA. What a crappy way for the club to service their racers.

 

By having a service office in the U.S. for IRC, gives competitors and the RC more time to handle last minute entrys and handle any last minute screw ups in the scratch sheets. What's the adage? Time is money?

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By having a service office in the U.S. for IRC, gives competitors and the RC more time to handle last minute entrys and handle any last minute screw ups in the scratch sheets. What's the adage? Time is money?

Of course it is, so long as it's done with a small amount of intelligence and semi-efficiently. Both things seem to be somewhat tough for US Sailing's administration.

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