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That's what i was afraid of on this design. I experienced the same thing on the Linde as soon as the boat heeled over the chine became the keel and it just stayed there.

 

Think I will stick with round chine boats and Tri's

,,,or you could just learn to sail!,,,mr'Stuff'

 

...in the meantime,,,your marketing motives are getting rather obvious,,,why not just start a thread pimping the boats you sell,rather than diss'ing other's rides!?!

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Oh Pooh-bah, perhaps knowing they are as am I that i550 boats are very breaking easy to me. The keel is so small and light I can carry easily to the boss man but only receive a small roti it for.  

Sahib, I know not how to read or write but I do know how to break boats. I also a little know how to sail from those boats with the training wheels. I would be glad to come to the land of the Solomo

I am searching for a source of sustainably harvested plywood made to the BS 1088 specification. Also if anyone has experience with the bio-derived epoxy offerings, let me know your experience.  T

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Every sailboat that I've ever been on wants to round up with increasing heal and load on the main sail. Quite frankly, that's what they are designed to do and what you want them to do as a safety measure. I do not find any unusual weather helm on my i550 and I don't believe that the chine has any significant effect. On any sailboat, as the center of lateral resistance moves forward (with heal and forward drive from the sails), you need to either counter the force with weather helm or by easing off on the main. I don't have a lot of hours on my boat yet, but so far when I found myself yanking on the tiller too much, I've let off a bit of traveler or put some twist in the main, and the boat has stayed nice and straight.

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Hmmmm Loitering with Intent to Lurk, eh??

 

And just where the heck is Yale Lake? And just to be redundant, Couch Surfer is looking for a warm body for his i550 for this penultimate grudge match between the canookistani northern invaders and the native Oregonsters from Portlandia.

 

In all seriousness, The i550na.org group deserves high praise for putting together a 5 boat build program and taking it to completion. 4 are in the water and the fifth is building in the shed. these guys are the heart of the good side of sailing.

 

There have been other clusterings of i550's this year in the Midwest and I think one more is proposed before the snow comes.

 

We've a few builds starting in South Africa and there is great support there among that group. A new kit is going to the Midwest, perhaps one to France and one to Bermuda. Then there are the Tasmanians....

5,6,7 and more to come in Hobart and surrounds. They just quietly build and every once in a while send out word that another x number are sailing. Croatia has a five boat cluster, too.

 

This summer has been great. We are still offering a plan set deal that can't be beat so don't hold back.

 

The support from the i550 community is great at all the sites.

 

i550class.org

i550na.org

i55sportboat.com for plans, patterns, kits and boats

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....really fun racing in S Washington this weekend!....5 boats,,, decent,though spotty winds created a bit of a 'snakes'n'ladders' effect on the fleet.....

 

...and the racing was very tight for the mostpart,,,,with an exciting 3 boats finishing within ~10 seconds at one point!

 

...it seems people and their boats in the NW are getting pretty honed-in...........time to sort a steady crew!!

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It was a great weekend of racing on Yale Lake in Cougar, Wa! Many thanks to WSC for putting on the Al Morris regatta and for letting us crash their dinghy party! With only 1 race that turned into a random crap shoot drifter, the sailing was pretty good.

 

5 boats from Oregon, Washington and British Columbia knocked out 7 races in 2 days. With many tightly fought starts, roundings, and finishes, the racing was very competitive and results were close. Hopefully there will be pictures soon!! Definitely close OD racing for the North American Class and lots of fun for all of us sailing boats against other fun i550 builders and owners.

 

Next on the calendar is the Columbus Day Regatta in Newport, Or... It was great fun last year with 3 boats, and we hope to have a few more this time around. The YBYC with support from Rogue Brewery puts on an amazing party and dinner Saturday night... Really looking forward to it and hoping to have great weather again this year!

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It was a great weekend of racing on Yale Lake in Cougar, Wa! Many thanks to WSC for putting on the Al Morris regatta and for letting us crash their dinghy party! With only 1 race that turned into a random crap shoot drifter, the sailing was pretty good.

 

5 boats from Oregon, Washington and British Columbia knocked out 7 races in 2 days. With many tightly fought starts, roundings, and finishes, the racing was very competitive and results were close. Hopefully there will be pictures soon!! Definitely close OD racing for the North American Class and lots of fun for all of us sailing boats against other fun i550 builders and owners.

 

Next on the calendar is the Columbus Day Regatta in Newport, Or... It was great fun last year with 3 boats, and we hope to have a few more this time around. The YBYC with support from Rogue Brewery puts on an amazing party and dinner Saturday night... Really looking forward to it and hoping to have great weather again this year!

....I'm loving seeing all these great locales in the NW,,,,and Newport sounds like a classic--it's on my calendar f'sure!!
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Hey, Gladi, how about some Al Morris regatta I-550 results.

Not sure if they are posted at WSC website yet, but this was emailed out...

 

Al Morris 2013 Results 1st Race 2nd Race 3rd Race 4th Race 5th Race 6th Race 7th Race 8th Race 9th Race Sub Total Toss Total Place

A Cat 24-Aug 25-Aug

Sail Number First Name Last Name Club

23 Randall Nikolai NW A-Cat dns 5 5 4 3 5 4 5 5 42 6 36

206 Sandy Dick A Cats Northwest 4 3 3 5 dns 4 3 3 3 34 6 28

CAN 29 Stan Breed VLSC 1 4 2 3 2 3 3 2 2 22 4 18 2

10 Ken Marshack VLSC 2 1 1 1 1 1 2 1 1 11 2 9 1

55 Roland 3 2 4 2 4 2 1 4 4 26 4 22 3

 

LIDO 14

6131 Toby Deming WSC 4 5 3 3 3 3 3 4 28 5 23 3

5007 John McCoy WSC 3 3 4 4 5 2 5 3 29 5 24

3720 Jim Clevenberg WSC 6 7 5 7 4 6 4 5 44 7 37

4156 Ron Runyan WSC 1 1 1 2 1 1 1 1 9 2 7 1

5126 Mark Sandifer WSC 2 2 2 1 2 5 2 2 18 5 13 2

4525 Marco 7 6 7 6 6 4 dns dns

12 5 4 6 5 dns dns dns dns

 

Flying Scot

1864 Brian Tyrrell CBSC 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 7 1 6 1

3539 Doug Queen CBSC 3 3 3 3 3 3 2 20 3 17

4887 Ray Peters CBSC 2 2 2 2 2 2 DNS 18 4 14

 

 

Laser

901 Christine Stamper WSC 4 4 4 4 3 3 3 3 28 4 24

198643 Walt Mintkenski WSC 2 2 3 3 1 1 2 2 16 3 13

196142 Jermeny 3 1 1 1 DNS` DNS DNS DNS

199327 John Purdy WSC 1 3 2 2 2 2 1 1 14 3 11 1

 

i550

269 Eric Rimkus RCYC/CYC/VLSC 1 2 4 2 2 2 2 15 4 11 2

250 Brian Lockwood I550 5 3 2 4 4 1 4 23 5 18

410 David Moran CYC 2 1 1 3 1 4 1 13 4 9 1

263 David Hickman VLSC/RCYC 3 5 5 5 5 5 5 33 5 28

131 Michael 4 4 3 1 3 3 3 21 4 17 3

Saturday Weather Conditions: 10-12 knot Winds Sunday Weather 10-12 knots building winds

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i550

269 Eric Rimkus RCYC/CYC/VLSC 1 2 4 2 2 2 2 15 4 11 2

250 Brian Lockwood I550 5 3 2 4 4 1 4 23 5 18

410 David Moran CYC 2 1 1 3 1 4 1 13 4 9 1

263 David Hickman VLSC/RCYC 3 5 5 5 5 5 5 33 5 28

131 Michael 4 4 3 1 3 3 3 21 4 17 3

Saturday Weather Conditions: 10-12 knot Winds Sunday Weather 10-12 knots building winds

 

 

NIce to see five boats out. Next year double that? Pretty consistent results. Old school tin rig was first last time and third this time? How close was the pack?

 

 

Congrats to all as I'm sure it was a blast!

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NIce to see five boats out. Next year double that? Pretty consistent results. Old school tin rig was first last time and third this time? How close was the pack?

 

 

Congrats to all as I'm sure it was a blast!

.....the cobbled boat was 2nd last time,,,3rd this time,,,,

,,,,1st last time was 4th this time(not sure what changed for them) ,,,,with the 'Camas Kid',,highschool build showed up and took the front!!

 

.......big improvement in consistency for Glad-rags,,eric and kim really pulled it together,,,,had a finish on sunday where three of us were approaching the finish virtually even,,,I was on port laying the finish pin,having just gotten a lift to pull me in,,,,the Rags were on starboard clear ahead,,,but tacked in front -almost- too close,,,but after reading a couple of rules I see that they have rights once they're on proper-course even though the sails don't have to be set for close hauled,,,,,,then I discovered just how much lee-bow effect these boats have(!!!),and got spat-out and tacked-off.....I'm still rather reticent about my sunday-hangover-cussing!!.....beautiful move eric

 

.....yes,,the racing is close and mixed ,,,,,snakes and ladders!

 

.....if we scored a NW series for events of 5boats or more methinks there'd be a 3 way tie.

......just watch out if I ever get a consistent crew honed in!!!

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  • 2 weeks later...

Great Vid, fuck i wish i had the money to buy the old TTB back so we could come for a "world tour". great to see more than 2 boats racing each other. i am only slightly jealous!

 

some reason this link worked for me http://vimeo.com/74176888 if anyone else is having trouble viewing it!

 

Tokyo is always lurking about watching you kids ;)

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Tokyo is always lurking about watching you kids ;)

 

TOKYO!!!!

It is nice to see that you keep an eye on us "kids", You are the "Grandfather" of the class how's that feel? And younger than all but two of the builders of boats in the water so far.

How does your new Leech 6.5 project go? Can you tell us where the venerable TTB lives now?

Does that tini550 rig at the riggers still need a home?

 

We just had an order for a kit going to Illinois, and the possibility of shipping a "super kit" to Bermuda with all the basic building materials included. I was surprised that the cost of shipping was a lot less than anticipated.

 

Summer in the Southern Hemisphere is coming and we are wondering how the guys in Hobart, Tasmania are getting along with their fleet building.

 

South Africa has a new kit cutter and a growing group of builders there. You can look up Roy at CKD for more information.

 

There are a couple of people who have expressed interest in building hulls for those who don't have the space-time-persistence-confidence to undertake a build. We're responding to questions and scheduling now.

 

The i550 world is continuing to expand at an accelerating pace. Join us, resistence is futile.

Timber

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Elektric Koolaide? let's go furthur

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I guaran-tease you I will be sailing this thang next spring (er....after the ice melts)

 

attachicon.gifKiwiGrip1.jpg

........ you are not alone,,,

....there's 3-4 boats in the NW that are in the same place,,,still pushing to get on the water this year

 

...bring it ON!!!

Defin
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I guaran-tease you I will be sailing this thang next spring (er....after the ice melts)

 

attachicon.gifKiwiGrip1.jpg

........ you are not alone,,,

....there's 3-4 boats in the NW that are in the same place,,,still pushing to get on the water this year

 

...bring it ON!!!

Definitely the funnest fleet of people in the NW... The boats are pretty fun too!

 

Tford might need to find 4 friends or enemies to go sail OD next spring....

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Tokyo is always lurking about watching you kids ;)

TOKYO!!!!

It is nice to see that you keep an eye on us "kids", You are the "Grandfather" of the class how's that feel? And younger than all but two of the builders of boats in the water so far.

How does your new Leech 6.5 project go? Can you tell us where the venerable TTB lives now?

Does that tini550 rig at the riggers still need a home?

We just had an order for a kit going to Illinois, and the possibility of shipping a "super kit" to Bermuda with all the basic building materials included. I was surprised that the cost of shipping was a lot less than anticipated.

Summer in the Southern Hemisphere is coming and we are wondering how the guys in Hobart, Tasmania are getting along with their fleet building.

South Africa has a new kit cutter and a growing group of builders there. You can look up Roy at CKD for more information.

There are a couple of people who have expressed interest in building hulls for those who don't have the space-time-persistence-confidence to undertake a build. We're responding to questions and scheduling now.

The i550 world is continuing to expand at an accelerating pace. Join us, resistence is futile.

Timber

650 is moving along nicely, floor and cabin not far away from being glued on. TTB is living somewhere west of Byron bay, last I heard was the new owner had a stroke and that had set him back a bit, although there is a great little 5.5m class growing down in ballina which would love to include the TTB in. AFAIK. The tin stick is still in the rigging shed in kit form. Hope to see the tassie guys out sailing this season, I know shazza was sold to there and dropped its rig. Death by snoo snoo is also up for sail I believe.

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I guaran-tease you I will be sailing this thang next spring (er....after the ice melts)

 

attachicon.gifKiwiGrip1.jpg

........ you are not alone,,,

....there's 3-4 boats in the NW that are in the same place,,,still pushing to get on the water this year

 

...bring it ON!!!

Definitely the funnest fleet of people in the NW... The boats are pretty fun too!

 

Tford might need to find 4 friends or enemies to go sail OD next spring....

 

He will always be welcome to sail amonst us "enemies" in our "Restricted Development" class - OK, the i550's version of One Design. One Hull Design doesn't seem to have a good ring to it. Two sailing in Jax this coming Winter and Spring. But they are the Bad Boy boats.

 

New "articles" over at http://openi550.freeforums.org/. I enjoyed doing "Fun with Hull Shapes".

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  • 2 weeks later...

Just finished up watching the incredible come from behind Oracle America's Cup win. I am not going to flog the facts except to say that the foreign born crew in the faster boat won. I don't have a count of heads but I think only one Yank was aboard either boat. I am in personal hell saying that for once Gary Jobson said something insightful about how we are not developing young sailors in this country. I agree with him.

 

One of the ideas behind the slowly developing master plan at i550 headquarters has been to hope that the i550 take hold and become a step toward that end.

 

Couchsurfer has offered to build an i550 for a great price for those of you not able to find time, room,

or have too much stuff going already.

 

I am throwing my hat into the ring also:

 

>>>An i550 HULL & DECK filled & faired & primed for $8000. Does not include Keel or Rudder.<<<

 

TR

 

Does anyone have Larry Ellisons Phone number?

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# 518 plan set goes to Croatia

 

#519 plans go to Wellington

 

There are unconfirmed rumors of a launch in Pennsylvania......

 

Spring has sprung in Hobart, Tasmania. How many i550's are there now?

 

Wet Cheap Fast Fun. The i550 is better than a Date

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Moose & Squirrel,

 

Photographic Proof: On the i550 Facebook page, Nathan has posted photos of an Aug 2nd launching of #19 (Lake Pymatuning - Jamestown PA) . He was planning to go out again and promised more pictures coming. Congratulation for completing "The Edge" (Build Name - Second Alarm).

 

 

 

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Couchsurfer has offered to build an i550 for a great price for those of you not able to find time, room,

or have too much stuff going already.

 

I am throwing my hat into the ring also:

 

>>>An i550 HULL & DECK filled & faired & primed for $8000. Does not include Keel or Rudder.<<<

 

TR

 

 

...thanks for the mention T/S...

 

.......as I said before,,,,

...''I'd bet it's surely worth building a proper jig for even a single boat,,,,,,

..............times a coming that someone's going to want a pre-built bare hull----I'm ready-to-go at $7G.......send a pm for details ''

 

.........detail-wise,,,that'd be a jig-built hull,,,either a portland style or short cabin/wide cockpit,,,,,,,,all framed and faired,,,finished to primer(topcoats extra)....with shroud mounts,,,hiking strap positions,,lift points installed,and backing plates mounted at other fitting positions.The keelbox would be a safety-kick design such as is in 'carbon offset'.

........you make your mark by putting together your own blades,,rig,sails,,,,though I'd have to say I'm a pretty darn good blade-shaper too!

.........if you're just getting familiar with building and epoxy,,,and value your time for -anything-,,,you'll realize that $7G is a $teel!! :blink: .....pricing might be 'adjusted' for subsequent builds!! :huh:

 

.......I've also got Carbon for sale for $8800,,I'll go ahead and do a build if she sells---would miss the fleet for a while,,,but would -really- like to document the use of a proper jig!!.....it's really painful to watch the pains people go through with floor-builds!,,,stitch/glue works well for mirror dinghies---I can't say it's appropriate for much bigger! :mellow:

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Couchsurfer,

Sorry we have not gotten you that draft agreement for your review. We have fixed our computer issues & will get that to you in the next week. As the recognized design owner of the i550 design (RDO) anyone wanting to build an i550 for profit needs to have a written agreement with Watershed as per our website. (That being more than one hull per year, using our intellectual property.)

T&S

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.

...this video,on today's frontpage show's nicely what I've been nattering about building over a male jig.....

 

 

...so easy,,,no wasted time in the end---infact a LOT of fairing time and weight saved over the stitch-on-floor method!

...................makes yer wonder why we'd do a flat bottom! :mellow:

 

 

.

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Building over a male jig is not new for the i550, in fact, it is how TTB , hull one, was built. It got changed to be easier and hopefully quicker for the masses. You can also round that bottom a bit and still be legal under the current rules.

 

The designer did it on his hull 336 and frankly, I think if built with a male jig rather than stitched, you end up with the real design shape that has a bit more "round" or "V" to it. Even so, you can do up to a 1/4 inch (6.35mm) of additional "V" under the i550Class rules and up to 1" (25.4mm) additional under the NA rule set, over and above the designed shape amount as can be calculated from the plan set.

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Building over a male jig is not new for the i550, in fact, it is how TTB , hull one, was built. It got changed to be easier and hopefully quicker for the masses. You can also round that bottom a bit and still be legal under the current rules.

 

The designer did it on his hull 336 and frankly, I think if built with a male jig rather than stitched, you end up with the real design shape that has a bit more "round" or "V" to it. Even so, you can do up to a 1/4 inch (6.35mm) of additional "V" under the i550Class rules and up to 1" (25.4mm) additional under the NA rule set, over and above the designed shape amount as can be calculated from the plan set.

.

 

........let me know how that works out :mellow:

 

...methinks it's pretty clear that there's some build 'issues' that have repeatedly surfaced for builders around the world....

....misfits,,spacing issues,,,hull-warps that require lots of fairing---need I go on??

 

.......as yer say,it's been done before--correct!...I'm definitely not proposing anything new or radical!!

.........just a time proven method that reliably forms a boat-shape! :o

 

...how much time would it add to put the bulkheads you've cut(plus a few more forms),,and mount them on a firm base??

.... then yer add some stringers to the bulkheads,which are necessary anyways,,and find that it's much easier to get the right gunnel shape than the other way,,,the paneling attaches easier,,,forms without distortion,,and there's lots less fairing!!

 

Building over a male jig is not new for the i550, in fact, it is how TTB , hull one, was built. It got changed to be easier and hopefully quicker for the masses. You can also round that bottom a bit and still be legal under the current rules.

 

The designer did it on his hull 336 and frankly, I think if built with a male jig rather than stitched, you end up with the real design shape that has a bit more "round" or "V" to it. Even so, you can do up to a 1/4 inch (6.35mm) of additional "V" under the i550Class rules and up to 1" (25.4mm) additional under the NA rule set, over and above the designed shape amount as can be calculated from the plan set.

.

 

........let me know how that works out :mellow:

 

...methinks it's pretty clear that there's some build 'issues' that have repeatedly surfaced for builders around the world....

....misfits,,spacing issues,,,hull-warps that require lots of fairing---need I go on??

 

.......as yer say,it's been done before--correct!...I'm definitely not proposing anything new or radical!!

.........just a time proven method that reliably forms a boat-shape! :o

 

...how much time would it add to put the bulkheads you've cut(plus a few more forms),,and mount them on a firm base??

.... then yer add some stringers to the bulkheads,which are necessary anyways,,and find that it's much easier to get the right gunnel shape than the other way,,,the paneling attaches easier,,,forms without distortion,,and there's lots less fairing!!

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Building over a male jig is not new for the i550, in fact, it is how TTB , hull one, was built. It got changed to be easier and hopefully quicker for the masses. You can also round that bottom a bit and still be legal under the current rules.

 

The designer did it on his hull 336 and frankly, I think if built with a male jig rather than stitched, you end up with the real design shape that has a bit more "round" or "V" to it. Even so, you can do up to a 1/4 inch (6.35mm) of additional "V" under the i550Class rules and up to 1" (25.4mm) additional under the NA rule set, over and above the designed shape amount as can be calculated from the plan set.

.

 

........let me know how that works out :mellow:

 

...methinks it's pretty clear that there's some build 'issues' that have repeatedly surfaced for builders around the world....

....misfits,,spacing issues,,,hull-warps that require lots of fairing---need I go on??

 

.......as yer say,it's been done before--correct!...I'm definitely not proposing anything new or radical!!

.........just a time proven method that reliably forms a boat-shape! :o

 

...how much time would it add to put the bulkheads you've cut(plus a few more forms),,and mount them on a firm base??

.... then yer add some stringers to the bulkheads,which are necessary anyways,,and find that it's much easier to get the right gunnel shape than the other way,,,the paneling attaches easier,,,forms without distortion,,and there's lots less fairing!!

 

>>Building over a male jig is not new for the i550, in fact, it is how TTB , hull one, was built. It got changed to be easier and hopefully quicker for the masses. You can also round that bottom a bit and still be legal under the current rules.

 

The designer did it on his hull 336 and frankly, I think if built with a male jig rather than stitched, you end up with the real design shape that has a bit more "round" or "V" to it. Even so, you can do up to a 1/4 inch (6.35mm) of additional "V" under the i550Class rules and up to 1" (25.4mm) additional under the NA rule set, over and above the designed shape amount as can be calculated from the plan set.

.

 

........let me know how that works out :mellow:

 

...methinks it's pretty clear that there's some build 'issues' that have repeatedly surfaced for builders around the world....

....misfits,,spacing issues,,,hull-warps that require lots of fairing---need I go on??

 

.......as yer say,it's been done before--correct!...I'm definitely not proposing anything new or radical!!

.........just a time proven method that reliably forms a boat-shape! :o

 

...how much time would it add to put the bulkheads you've cut(plus a few more forms),,and mount them on a firm base??

.... then yer add some stringers to the bulkheads,which are necessary anyways,,and find that it's much easier to get the right gunnel shape than the other way,,,the paneling attaches easier,,,forms without distortion,,and there's lots less fairing!!

 

 

Hey, never said I thought it was the best choice, but then again, it is a bit less intimidating to stitch those panels together and "wow", you've got a boat. Yes there are lots of potential issues and yes, what you have to do after the hull is stitched and you start installing those pesky bulkheads can be problematic, but I suspect for the average builder who will only ever build one of the things, the stitch and glue building method is just fine. Yes, I remember, FINE is Frustrated, Insecure, Neurotic and Emotional, but how best to describe how you end up when you build your own boat anyway? After all, you've just modified one recently and it gave you a bit of a stutter!

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The i550 is a stitch and glue boat meant for first time builders. Most
of the boats have been built in garages and sheds right side up. It is
a simple boat and lends itself to a simple female cradle type of
support. The Portland, Oregon group did just that. For economy, the
offcuts from the frames can be used as the supports for the bottom
hull panel.

The Gougeon Brothers (West System Epoxy) built Hot Canary, an i550 for themselves
and made a 3 minute video of the start to finish. They used a female cradle for
their build. They have been at this boat building thing for a while.
One of the comments they related to me was that they were impressed by
the sail area to wetted surface area of the design. Raw horsepower is
a good translation.

The speed build video is here:

.

A male jig presents a major investment in time and money and is
impractical for an amateur to consider. Also there are drawbacks to
this approach if the frames are not heavy, thick members. The i550 is
a light boat with 6 mm (1/4") frames and it is most practical to build
it as originally intended: Stitch and Glue, right side up on a female jig.

 

To make such a big issue about a simple boat, built thus far by many amateurs in stitch & glue, can only serve to discourage the numbers of additional new builds.

We are now up to 520 plan sets, with the latest going to Brazil.

Tim

P.S. "Oxymoron"???? Must have a different definition in Canada ...

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.

 

....krikey,,,I'll just 'agree to disagree' on a number of points.

...maybe if yer actually build one of these boats you sell plans for ,,you'd think differently!!!

 

.....hopefully I'll either sell my boat and build this way,,or do a build for someone....it'd be great to build this way and document!

 

 

...it'd be good to see that 'builder agreement' sometime! ;)

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Kouchy.

Krikey you're Kranky ...

Makes us sooooo anxious to do business with you.

"Give a Hoot, Don't Pollute." You are discouraging the core spirit & heart of the i550 by your continued cheap shots.

Do you want another SHIT STORM here that will hurt everyone?

Thought better of you.

Nuf said.

T&S

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Kouchy.

Krikey you're Kranky ...

Makes us sooooo anxious to do business with you.

"Give a Hoot, Don't Pollute." You are discouraging the core spirit & heart of the i550 by your continued cheap shots.

Do you want another SHIT STORM here that will hurt everyone?

Thought better of you.

Nuf said.

T&S

.

 

...you just don't get it :mellow:

 

...I'm trying to suggest something that would make the build simpler,,cheaper,,better for -everyone-

 

.........' continued cheap-shots'.............are you stoned or just stupid???? :huh:

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Yes, I remember, FINE is Frustrated, Insecure, Neurotic and Emotional,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

...ahh ,perhaps we should develop a manual....''i550 easybuild in 12 steps'' ;)

 

...hmm,,,one of those steps would be to review the days work,,make corrections when necessary or relevant :rolleyes:;)

 

 

T/S I realize that some of my comments were jabbing a bit close to the bone perhaps,,,

.......I hope you realize that it's somewhat frustrating ... to put up a build offer in july....to have you inquire about it privately ... agree privately that the frame-build would be the way to go,,,,,,, then you make a similar build offer,,,,,,,but publicly suggest the build method is too complicated for your customers.,,,,while all this time,I've waited for this 'builder contract' you 'mentioned' since july, as you go through flood,fire,pestilence and yet more computer issues :mellow:

...so 'agree to disagree' is all I said---for you to write this!!!>>>>>

 

Kouchy.

Krikey you're Kranky ...

Makes us sooooo anxious to do business with you.

"Give a Hoot, Don't Pollute." You are discouraging the core spirit & heart of the i550 by your continued cheap shots.

Do you want another SHIT STORM here that will hurt everyone?

Thought better of you.

Nuf said.

T&S

.

 

....sooo,,who's actually opening a 'shit storm' here???...you could have easily brushed off my comments,,,but instead chose to make a public statement that mocks,,cajoles,,admonishes ,,threatens.........

 

...my suggestion.... ''maybe if yer actually build one of these boats you sell plans for ,,you'd think differently'',,,,,is to suggest that you do some homework before you decide what's best for you customers ---maybe there's a reason many builds take ages on a virtual fizzle as builders meet hurdle after hurdle as repeatedly mentioned in blogs :unsure:

 

......as much as you've done well by providing a service to the class**,,I can't think of any other class that relies on the management of a proprietorship as this.........I'm not suggesting that you don't sell plans and such,,,but sometimes I wonder who is serving who??

 

......maybe I'm missing something!!...I would welcome other i550 stakeholder comments -either public or private,,to help me understand this question more.....

 

....i550's are a fine boat,,with a great bunch of crafts/sailors on the water,,,, born to the pages SA,,,with little dialogue outside of SA,,with membership spread far and wide,,,,so there doesn't feel a place to raise my question otherwise

 

 

**....I don't refer to any particular organization so much as the group of people who own and have interest in i550's,, since I've always downplayed these divisions and tried to build bridges between groups.

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This has been a developing problem. Tim and Susan sometimes seem to be at odds with themselves in the sense that they can't seem to make up their minds about what direction the i550 should go. They are and have been very sensitive and over react when pressed. They seem to change their minds and often appear to be heading in one direction only to do an about face and head the other. It always has been difficult to get answers to questions that can be contentious and while you may hear one thing they often do something different. Your experience, Couchsurfer, with the idea of an production agreement is a common one. I believe they sort of want others to build boats because they know it is good for the i550 world and yet somehow they themselves want to be the only ones to do it. But they can't. So they make nice verbally and somehow never really follow through. They get wish-washy and lead you on. Their secret hope is that you get fed up with them and go away, leaving them their dream of being the i550 production builder.

 

A little while ago, I posted something about Tim and Susan coming out and stating they endorsed only the i550class rule set that excludes something like 50% of the boats built and their response was to belittle my character as much as possible.

 

Tim and Susan as well as a few others have used the exact same tactics against not only me but the designer of the i550 and some of the NA folks as well. This type of tactic is often used to further some agenda that can not be supported with logic or truth. Like trying to create an international rule set that excludes 50% of the builders or supporting only the i550class that prevents the building of production boats. This sends a very confusing message to not only potential home builders but also to those who could be the future production builders of the i550.

 

The i550 can still have a bright future. We need a production builder out there that can be strong enough to take control of the i550 world and leave Tim and Susan just sitting by the mail box waiting for a check rather than trying to market the thing themselves. They do deserve that check though as they have brought the i550 a long way, they have just reached the limit of their abilities and now need to put it into the hands of someone more capable of moving it forward.

 

 

 

 


]Re: new to I550 questions
by M&S » Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:08 pm
Armac909 wrote:Tim and Susan,

Thanks for the statement. So, as design owner, you endorse both sets of rules?

 


Watershed endorses the Class.org rule set.

The hulls should be built to a set of rules without cutesy loopholes. Protection of the 'as designed' shape is paramount.

There are enough variables to sort out during the infancy of this class without adding hull shape to the mix.

foils sails masts that's plenty to sort out at this time.

Chad's pictures of the hull bottom shapes in a previous post point up the hollows induced in the hull bottom panels as the shape was tortured to twist severely in the forward-most sections. the hull was designed to not have intentional hollows.

Warmest Regards
Tim

 

Tim and Susan, I'm sure you are busy typing some kind of belittling response to this post, but please think twice. You caused this one yourself. All you had to do was this:

 

"We do recognize that the stitch and glue method has it's own set of challenges but to the average home builder that will only ever build a boat once, it is by far the best and easiest method to use. It gets the boat progressing faster and easier than a male jig would and the fact that the builder can see their boat coming together faster is a great incentive for the amateur home builder to keep going and finish that build. We look forward to seeing how that new build goes and hope you get to start one soon. We're sure that all of us will learn something good from your experience regardless of the building method we choose."

 

See? A positive post that stated your position and did not need any name calling or belittling to get it your point across. You need to try that approach sometime.

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OK. You two delight in quoting yourselves over & over again, in rambling, hard to follow posts. And all the while throwing rocks at us personally, & at our business. Do you notice that no one else here has cared to comment? So we will comment to clarify the facts for the rest of the i550 world. We will attempt to be brief, as we are certain this sort of feuding does no one any good.

1. We own the rights to the i550 design. Our intellectual property belongs to us, despite how much you 2 personally covet it.

2. It is also our right to choose with whom we do business.

3. Like many people, we have had a difficult year. We had a very nasty 130k+ acre wildfire just over the mountain from our home & business, severe flooding in our state that drastically affected our communications & Susan has been seriously ill. All that is thankfully much better now. Thanks to all from around the world who have sent their good wishes.

For the 2 who continue to throw rocks, even when we give them the last word on this very public forum, we try to ignore them as they are a very tiny percentage of those who communicate with us daily.

Joe, you, yourself, a few years back, wanted to be the production builder, but then declined due to lack of funding at the time in your non-profit. Many people have suffered from the recession, multiple, extreme natural disasters & illness. We have a personal relationship with many builders and potential builders who have suffered much more than us & our hearts go out to them. They persevere & so do we.

Now for the GOOD news:

For the last several months, as previously hinted, we have been working diligently with a sailboat manufacturer in North America. It now looks very hopeful that we we will soon be successful in signing a contract. We have held fast to these negotiations, as this company has the resources, the skill, and most importantly, the "win-win" attitude that those in the past have lacked. He also is very willing to fully support and include all i550 home builders, kit cutters with whom we have current agreements, as well as the current 2 classes. To do otherwise would have been a deal breaker for us.

Watershed will continue to own the design rights, sell our current plans & products as per usual. We will also assist in establishing an international network of dealers.

As for the rest of what has been implied on SA recently, we will again quote the obvious:

1. On 7/11/13, TTB said: "A male jig or a female jig?? Female would be the better way to go."

2. On 8/5/13, we said "Just to be VERY CLEAR: Watershed supports the right of both CURRENT classes to make their own rules & constitutions. Builders can themselves decide whom they chose to affiliate with, be that one or both or neither. Fleets in Tasmania & Croatia will soon have enough boats to rival North American fleets. Which class will they wish to belong? Time will tell the tale.

And it does the i550 fleet growth no good to keep rehashing old wounds. Let us all move forward for the common good."

3. On 8/8/13, we said "Total axs,Your intentions here are the same tactics that got you banned from the class site. Now you are stirring the pot against NA, which I thought you were a member of. I decided to respond because you misrepresented my business Watershed in a negative manner to further interest in your new site. You made it a shit show for your own publicity.

I checked your site this a.m. You have 8 members. That should be back down to 7 as I requested my removal from your registered users. Every post is apparently written by you. No wonder you are hell bent on stirring up trouble, as it is obvious to me that your site has no substance.

You like getting banned & then pissing & moaning about it for years. I am tired of it. I suspect most others are as well. I agree with Eric. It is a dilution."

(Note: there are still only 8 members as of 10/6/13 & we have received 2 emails from you, begging us to come back to your forum.)

4. Yesterday we said "The i550 is a stitch and glue boat meant for first time builders. Most of the boats have been built in garages and sheds right side up. It is a simple boat and lends itself to a simple female cradle type of support. The Portland, Oregon group did just that. For economy, the offcuts from the frames can be used as the supports for the bottom hull panel."

(Noye: Please see full post above.)

If that is not a positive point, then we fear there is no reasoning with you & we will no longer attempt to do so. We have better things to do.

T&S

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Once again, you missed to point of this exercise. But that does not surprise me one bit. Like many others, you like to change the facts to suit whatever agenda you seem to be pursuing and so seem to be proving me right as much as anything. Oh, and both of us "2 who continue to throw rocks" have consistently supported both you and the i550 for years and yet, if there is a dissenting opinion about something ......you are very quick to call us names and worse. One more thing, when have I ever not recognized your rights with the i550, even when others are not? You will not truthfully be able to name one time at all.

 

As to my forum, it has been pretty well read. I never intended it to have a large membership, it is intended to be read by any who wish without having to join, With any forum, many more read than post and so why make them join? As to :(Note: there are still only 8 members as of 10/6/13 & we have received 2 emails from you, begging us to come back to your forum.) Sorry, not personal e-mails, no begging on my part - but I suspect you knew that. The site does it automatically all on it's own. Like I said, I don't much care if anyone is a member as long as it gets read. If people stop reading it, i'll do away with it. Meanwhile, I will see if I can turn off those automatic e-mails for everyone.

 

Now for the GOOD news:

For the last several months, as previously hinted, we have been working diligently with a sailboat manufacturer in North America. It now looks very hopeful that we we will soon be successful in signing a contract. We have held fast to these negotiations, as this company has the resources, the skill, and most importantly, the "win-win" attitude that those in the past have lacked. He also is very willing to fully support and include all i550 home builders, kit cutters with whom we have current agreements, as well as the current 2 classes. To do otherwise would have been a deal breaker for us.

Watershed will continue to own the design rights, sell our current plans & products as per usual. We will also assist in establishing an international network of dealers.

 

 

Yes, good news that this is still on. I have been worried a bit, knowing what I know. It is exactly what I was talking about. Yes, I could have put it in a kinder way, but after the name calling in the past on your part, I haven't felt very kindly towards you. My bad, really, as I should be above that.

 

Hopefully the production builder will recognize what truly needs done and do it. While it may seem at first that a few suffer for it, in the end, everyone will win.

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I dunno, Couch-man.

 

I'm not sure you are right about the methodology you are proposing in terms of it being "simpler [commas] cheaper [commas] better [more commas] for -everyone-." Maybe "simpler, cheaper and better for some" might be more accurate.

 

The biggest issue I had with this project was time, not stuff that had to do with bending plywood into proper shape. I took care of whatever issues there were (which were remarkably few) pretty easily.

 

I can guarantee you one thing, though:

 

due to when I started the project and where I built it (outside), if I had had to build a strongback, insert frames, run stringers and then proceed as per usual, I would be one year behind where I am now. Instead I am ready to splash the boat in early spring and while it isn't perfect, it's a decent enough looking back-yard build and I think it will be as fast as anything anyone builds on a strongback.

 

just my 2 cents

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My build was sorta like couch is proposing, except right side up. Set the bottom on an accurate jig, stand up the frames and add all the bottom and side stringers, then add the hull sides. The benefit was I could do 99% of the taping without ever getting into the boat, which is sorta important with 6mm okoume and wide-spaced jig frames. Couch's method substitutes wood bevel strips for at least half the taping at the frames, fitted to the frames before adding the hull skins. Not difficult work. Setting up the frames upside down is no more difficult than the now-common build jigs being used, so that's also a wash. I really don't think it matters, and I'd like to see him give it a go. I don't think Tokyo's initial upside down boat building process is anything to go by- he seems to have needed to do some odd things to get his built, not sure if that's related to the less complete plan he worked from, or?

 

So far, I've had up to seven folks on the boat at a time (3 kids, 4 adults). Put on some small sails, and it's a great little lake cruiser. Or lean on it with some crew and it goes. Don't let the dysfunction around here stop you from building!

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All you had to do was this:

 

"We do recognize that the stitch and glue method has it's own set of challenges but to the average home builder that will only ever build a boat once, it is by far the best and easiest method to use. It gets the boat progressing faster and easier than a male jig would and the fact that the builder can see their boat coming together faster is a great incentive for the amateur home builder to keep going and finish that build. We look forward to seeing how that new build goes and hope you get to start one soon. We're sure that all of us will learn something good from your experience regardless of the building method we choose."

 

See? A positive post that stated your position and did not need any name calling or belittling to get it your point across. You need to try that approach sometime.

.

 

...right on...I so totally agree...a bit of tact would help a LOT!.....I started off with a constructive thought -something I feel would benefit builders,right or wrong.

...of course ,I had a growing frustration over...''having put up a build offer in july....to have T/S inquire about it privately ... agree privately that the frame-build would be the way to go,,,,,,, then make a similar build offer,,,,,,,but publicly suggest the build method is too complicated for their customers.'' ...as well as the builder contract stuff.

I am not expecting to make my year's income from building i550's by any means,,but as I said ,it would be -interesting- to see this contract you mentioned so much--it either exists or it doesn't,,shouldn't it be public information?

...my motives are towards people building boats,,going sailing,,having fun.....I've developed some decent skills in -all- of these areas,,and try to share them -freely-.I do not expect to be paid for most of this.I'd be very surprised if demand was stronger than 1 build per year,so I'm totally fine with the status quo on that.

 

I dunno, Couch-man.

 

I'm not sure you are right about the methodology you are proposing in terms of it being "simpler [commas] cheaper [commas] better [more commas] for -everyone-." Maybe "simpler, cheaper and better for some" might be more accurate.

 

The biggest issue I had with this project was time, not stuff that had to do with bending plywood into proper shape. I took care of whatever issues there were (which were remarkably few) pretty easily.

 

I can guarantee you one thing, though:

 

due to when I started the project and where I built it (outside), if I had had to build a strongback, insert frames, run stringers and then proceed as per usual, I would be one year behind where I am now. Instead I am ready to splash the boat in early spring and while it isn't perfect, it's a decent enough looking back-yard build and I think it will be as fast as anything anyone builds on a strongback.

 

just my 2 cents

.

...to both quotes above,,again I'll say let's 'agree to disagree' for now on a number of points.

...I suggest that unless you've built a boat,,you're just -blowing-smoke-,or huffing it...that goes for me as well! .....hopefully I'll get an opportunity to build this way and document the process I'm suggesting.

 

......I'm grateful for most all comments that have come forward-both on and offline--a good balance between supportive,,and 'agree to disagree'..

.....I encourage YOU to pick up those plans,and start something,,even if it's just to start with the smaller more time consuming parts like rudder,keel,keelbox,it'll be satisfying and if nothing else you've got something to sell or donate to another build.

 

........i550's are a fun boat,,,and there's nothing more satisfying than building and sailing one's own boat in a fleet of the same!

 

 

 

 

...just don't make me drink the Kool-Aide :mellow:

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HAH, ok, I think that's a good plan. e.g., to agree to disagree.

 

I like having the distinction of actually having built one attached to my pathetic resumé. But that doesn't make me an authority, that's for sure!

 

This little boat certainly has had a history of provoking disagreement and that may have something to do with the kinds of people who go ahead and build boats anyway, in spite of all the excellent reasons NOT to :rolleyes:

 

but it's cool that we all agree that it is/will be a fun boat once completed and, however you come down on the multitude of i550 topics, we are a rather passionate crowd when it comes to the design! Hmmm reminds me of that line from Yeats, "The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity."

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Good Quote, T-Ford. Here's two that we strive to embody with the business of bringing the i550 design into fruition. We sometimes may not always hit the mark, but all considered, the international reach thus far has far exceeded all expectations.

“I learned this, at least, by my experiment: that if one advances confidently in the direction of his dreams, and endeavors to live the life which he has imagined, he will meet with a success unexpected in common hours.”

Henry David Thoreau, Walden: Or, Life in the Woods

“Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you don't do than the ones you did. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. EXPLORE, DREAM, DISCOVER.”

-- Mark Twain

T&S


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For what it's worth, if I had it to do over again I would go with the male mold approach (similar to the video). I think that it would have saved a substantial amount of time, aggravation, and fairing compound. Building a base to hold the frames upside down isn't that much harder than building a decent cradle. I also loved the gimbal for rotating the boat in the video.

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“Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you don't do than the ones you did. ....... ”

-- Mark Twain

T&S

.

 

.....sounds like a great motivator to build a boat!!!

 

 

........................................i550,,,'dibley',,,,whatever! :rolleyes:

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Now that people have been sailing and racing...what kind of boat speeds are you getting, up and down wind and in what kind of wind and water conditions?

Thanks.

Jus.

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bread boxes have chines too

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Slower than a TP52... Faster than a bread box

.

 

...and that means plenty for a breadbox!

......550's feel painfuly slow upwind,,,,but turn the corner ,pop the chute,,and WOW---had one of those sails on saturday..started as the breeze filled,sailing upwind until puffs were ~20,,,and had a heck of a ride home!!!

..........a bit of a jar.r.r.ring ride as the boat would pop-over standing waves and land on the flat bottom!

 

.......for whatever 550's lack for their short,boxy shape,,I'm glad there's OD to be had,,and hope that develops more for people,,,otherwise it's the usual dilemma everyone faces in H'cap stuff....waiting for 'our conditions'

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I don't have any numbers for you just observations after racing most every summer weekend over the last two years. Up wind the i550 is just another 18' boat, j24's will leave you behind in short order. Typical windward-leward bouy races are hard to make a good showing on. Let the wind crack off to a reach or run and everything changes. I will guess that my boat gets up on plane around eight knots +- hull speed and just lifts up and takes off. If your normaly sailing in fives to tens and bouy race formats get used to playing catch up on the down wind legs. I'm trying to get the local club to do some triangle races next year, the i550 should fair much better with that format.

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what is the windiest guys are using the single spreader c-Tech style rigs with masthead kites in?

- single spreaders

- forestay lower than the cap shrouds

- top section of the mast not supported except by the leech of the main

 

Curious as I am building a boat with a similar rig set up (Shaw 550) and having introduced you guys to C-Tech, I am now likely to use a similarly set up rig (as Rob designed from the beginning with single spreaders) - just want to know how funky the rig is going to look in bigger breeze - C-Tech claims (and I believe them) it's all no problem but curious to hear from actual experience on the sort of limits and how you guys are setting things up.

 

Hoping that the 2 i550s under construction in Samui get finished so we have someone to race against other than the IRC 3 fleet!

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As anything ..if you sail well you will be fast. I'm just curious as I'm close to taking the leap in a big way.

.

 

as I said,,, the speed/cost/satisfaction factor is hard to beat...there's faster boats,,,but not at the price you can put together an i550,

,,,,,,and -nothing- beats the satisfaction of building your own! :)

 

...it's also great once you get together with a fleet of build-your-own happy folks and do some racing...as noted on this page,,there's some particular passions which just don't compare elsewhere! :rolleyes:

 

.........go for it---yer know you want to!! ;)

 

 

...edit..I'd also add that once OD has traction in your area,,,it's worthwhile getting in for that reason alone!

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Is it really? Never really occurred to me. So what are you guys racing against? Stars, Tempests, thistles?

One Design brotha! OD!

 

We started with a PHRF fleet last weekend because we didn't have numbers... j24, merit25, Capri25... They scored the races Portsmouth though.

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How much wind needed to get that 8 knots?

The boat is crazy fast in 8-12 knots... Even up to 15. Sails well to weather and planes downwind easily. This is where you are going to school bigger lead mines in the rating game.

Under 8 it's okay... Under 5 it's painful... Painful if you are trying to save your time against anything with a longer waterline. Irrelevant if you are sailing OD, but really not much fun.

Over 12 it just keeps getting fun until it becomes work. Upwind you start to really go sideways and over 20 it starts to become a handful... Manegable until 25+, but it stops being fun upwind... Downwind is pretty easy up to 20-25... Then you have to start paying attention.

 

How much wind needed to get that 8 knots?

The boat is crazy fast in 8-12 knots... Even up to 15. Sails well to weather and planes downwind easily. This is where you are going to school bigger lead mines in the rating game.

Under 8 it's okay... Under 5 it's painful... Painful if you are trying to save your time against anything with a longer waterline. Irrelevant if you are sailing OD, but really not much fun.

Over 12 it just keeps getting fun until it becomes work. Upwind you start to really go sideways and over 20 it starts to become a handful... Manageable until 25+, but it stops being fun upwind... Downwind is pretty easy up to 20-25... Then you have to start paying attention.

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Is it really? Never really occurred to me. So what are you guys racing against? Stars, Tempests, thistles?

One Design brotha! OD!

 

We started with a PHRF fleet last weekend because we didn't have numbers... j24, merit25, Capri25... They scored the races Portsmouth though.

.

 

...was that the Newport event??

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what is the windiest guys are using the single spreader c-Tech style rigs with masthead kites in?

- single spreaders

- forestay lower than the cap shrouds

- top section of the mast not supported except by the leech of the main

 

Curious as I am building a boat with a similar rig set up (Shaw 550) and having introduced you guys to C-Tech, I am now likely to use a similarly set up rig (as Rob designed from the beginning with single spreaders) - just want to know how funky the rig is going to look in bigger breeze - C-Tech claims (and I believe them) it's all no problem but curious to hear from actual experience on the sort of limits and how you guys are setting things up.

 

Hoping that the 2 i550s under construction in Samui get finished so we have someone to race against other than the IRC 3 fleet!

 

Great question! and one I hope gets answered before I go in next spring. BTW, thanks for the intro to C-Tech. I think a lot of us have gone to a 2nd set of spreaders, but I have not done so, as there are still a few more bits to get sorted on hull#87.

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Is it really? Never really occurred to me. So what are you guys racing against? Stars, Tempests, thistles?

One Design brotha! OD!

 

We started with a PHRF fleet last weekend because we didn't have numbers... j24, merit25, Capri25... They scored the races Portsmouth though.

.

 

...was that the Newport event??

Yeah... light first race Saturday, decent 2nd race, painful 3rd race in dying breeze and the teeth of a flood tide (they sent us out under the bridge!!).

Sunday was better breeze once it filled in.

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Great question! and one I hope gets answered before I go in next spring. BTW, thanks for the intro to C-Tech. I think a lot of us have gone to a 2nd set of spreaders, but I have not done so, as there are still a few more bits to get sorted on hull#87.

Interesting. My boat is a bit smaller in the rig, and a little lighter, so I might see how long it lasts with just 1 set. Always a pleasure to support other sportsboats; I know the U20 guys were pretty happy with their C-Tech rigs too - it's a great company to deal with.
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So...it's getting close...time to jump in with both feet..but another question....the placement of the prod..centre or off centre...what is your preference and why?

Carbon or tin rig ..and why?

Latest exotic sails or Dacron ...and why.

I personally have my own thoughts, but I am curious about what you all think.

Cheers

Jus.

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So...it's getting close...time to jump in with both feet..but another question....the placement of the prod..centre or off centre...what is your preference and why?

Carbon or tin rig ..and why?

Latest exotic sails or Dacron ...and why.

I personally have my own thoughts, but I am curious about what you all think.

Cheers

Jus.

.

 

...okayyy-I'll bite....being a dinghy sailor,,melikes having a fully-sealed hull,,so am happy to have the prod above deck.....I also think that I get a wee bit more rotation with an above-deck set-up

........here's some detail pics of my external rotating pole,,with automatic in/out as the halyard is pulled/released........click on the pics for detail notes..... ........... http://www.flickr.com/photos/59103003@N ... 076955693/

 

''Carbon or tin rig ..and why?,,,,,,,,Latest exotic sails or Dacron ...and why.''..........for me it's probably a matter of philosophy more than anything else---the boat ,to me,,is all about being re$ourceful,,bonus points go to the ride put together for the least bux,,barring cheaping-out on plywood and epoxy.

.................racing my alloy scow mast,,hand-me-down melges20 sails(very nice sizing!) in the NW with a fleet of carbon spars,,custom-cut sails,,,it's clear that the bigger factor is how smooth teamwork is,,and who's hung-over th'least! :mellow:

 

.

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So...it's getting close...time to jump in with both feet..but another question....the placement of the prod..centre or off centre...what is your preference and why?

Carbon or tin rig ..and why?

Latest exotic sails or Dacron ...and why.

I personally have my own thoughts, but I am curious about what you all think.

Cheers

Jus.

 

 

If I had to do it over again, I would do a on-deck prod like the Ultimates have. Create that groove in the deck and lay the prod in it with a removable cap holding it in place. Easy to do, easy to service and much less complicated than an in-hull, on center or articulated one of any kind. Simple is best in the end as then it is easier for a crew of two or three to do, especially in higher winds. Even if there is indeed an advantage to an articulated prod, I think that in the future, when many i550's meet, if one particular "option" like an articulated prod gives a large advantage (I personally do not think they will), the SI's can require those types of "options" disabled for the class racing.

 

Carbon rigs are simply considered better at this point because they are high tech, but I suspect that with the smaller boats like the i550, they are only as good as the person setting them up. A tin rig can be as good. Perhaps in the future with many more boats sailing it will prove different, we'll just have to find out. So, I think then comes down to cost. Anyway you slice it, a carbon rig is approaching three times the cost of a good tin rig. Last time I checked, full up costs for the ones being used most commonly are hitting $ 4,000.00 to $ 5,000.00 for C-tech and CST with the Dwyer DM-4 rig coming in at about $ 1,700.00. One thing to consider is that the odds are you won't own that boat forever so resell comes into play. Based on what we have seen so far, you will have trouble getting your material cost back (in the US anyway). Unless you can't win without a carbon mast, then why bother to spend the extra cash. Frankly the move on the part of a few to go with expensive carbon rigs is what began moving the i550 from a real one design to what it is today.

 

Sails, hmmm, a tough call. So much depends upon the sail designer that the material choices start to become secondary this early in the game. I do think some research into what works for other classes helps. I know that at one time, Melges 24 mains were kept Dacron. I had a friend with a U24 that went back to Dacron mains. I was told at the time it was because the dacron made a sail easier to shaoe for the wider range of conditions. I would be tempted to stick with Dacron and play with the cuts on the Main. The jib on the other hand is secondary and so whatever works best and my sail maker thinks a higher tech material jib with the dacron main may be a good all around and fast set-up. Time will tell on that one. But sail material choice is often done at the class rule level. None with the i550 at this point. In addition, longevity should be a factor and from racing with high tech sails like Stratis. They may set wonderfully when new, but they do not last. If you don't what a large sail replacement budget, then tried and proven older tech seems like the way to go.

 

I think the fact that we have questions like this being asked at all illustrates the biggest issue with the i550. We are a restricted development class that hopes to sail as a class, not a one design as is conventionally accepted. If and when a production builder decides to pick up the challenge of taking the i550 to a higher level, they will be the ones to determine what the class really is. With or without cabin, type of prod, mast and sail materials, all of these things will be decided by what they decide to promote and the rest of us will have to follow or at least hope they let us come play with them.

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This all very good information and I appreciate the replies. Many sailmakers up here suggesting going with Dacron . They say the difference in materials is not noticeable. But I was curious as to what others were doing. I like the idea of a deck mounted prod. Non articulating. My mind was already made up regarding the spar..it will be tin..again carbon is just an added expense that is not needed. I have read a lot, looked at a lot of photos..there are so many great builds out there.

Thanks

Jus.

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My Dwyer DM4 mast and DM5 boom together cost a bit under $800 picked up at the factory. I have maybe $150 into the CF spreaders and $300 into the prod and prod receiver all of which I built myself. So with the standing and running rigging, maybe there is $1,500 there. I stopped tracking these things when I blew way past the original all-in estimate that I gave to the capital appropriations committee (my wife).

 

I would have gone with Dacron for the main except that I got a really good deal on my sails.

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.................... I like the idea of a deck mounted prod. Non articulating................ Jus.

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....here's a couple of reasons I'm happy to have a rotator.......

 

...was out yesterday in quite light winds (yes,,I SAIL!! :o ) ......it was super-clear the advantages of having the articulating pole--basically the angle rotation was worth the angle sailed,,vmg,, in very light stuff.......really!!! ;)

 

....an additional benefit to the rotation is that it makes the kite more visible to the trimmer without lowering,furling the jib,,not to mention the wind--without that,the trimmer would need to be hiked-out the weather side,,with the helm needing to be hard-to the lee side to balance things :mellow:

 

 

...............during a gybe,,the crew's job is to rotate the pole,,re-sheet the jib,and pull the boom across,,,while I fly the chute ,,steer through the gybe.......easy-peasy!!!...I really can't see why people say it's too 'complicated'

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Ah. I always thought you were based out of Seattle. Pretty foggy to fail sail? Maybe it wasn't so foggy up there. Do you have any detailed photos of the Cockpit area and interior? Debating between this boat or a leech.

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