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Dr. Laura Rumor from this Weekend


Antony

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So, there is a rumor circulating that Dr. Laura, after having learned that she had sailed the wrong course refused to drop out of the race becuase it would hurt her chances of winning the Ullman Inshore Series.

 

The story is that in the third race the Race Committee sent her class on the same course as the previous one (twice around W/L), however, they changed the weather mark to the short one from the long one for the previous class. Only one boat figured this out, and they sailed the shorter course.

 

One of the boats that sailed the longer course protested the one boat. In the arbitration room they learned that the one boat sailed the proper course. They also figured out that all of the boats, using the 'string theory', sailed the correct course except one. One boat (Dr. Laura's) sailed on a long starboard tack then came into the far windmark mark on port, thus leaving the correct mark on the wrong side. Evidently, the weather mark set boat confirmed this. However, it was too late to protest her.

 

One of the owners confronted her, after the race and explained the situation. She agreed that she had not sailed the course and when pressed to withdraw from the race only said "let me speak with my cres." By the next morning she had not withdrawn and explained that 'she'd discussed it with her crew and decided that it would hurt her chances of doing well in the Ullman Inshore Series if she took a last place in the 3rd race".

 

What a complete load of sh*t. She should bail, or we should let her know at every regatta that ensues that we believe her to be a cheat and should leave the sport.

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Maybe we all ought to take a field trip to her radio show and ask her what to do in this situation:

 

Dr. Laura, I play golf, it's a self policing sport, and if you knowingly commit a foul, you have to take your penalties, even if the penalty is disqualification. One of my fellow competitors knowingly broke the rules, and has admitted so, yet refuses to withdraw because it would......... You get the point.

 

I wonder how she would answer this.

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Maybe we all ought to take a field trip to her radio show and ask her what to do in this situation:

 

Dr. Laura, I play golf, it's a self policing sport, and if you knowingly commit a foul, you have to take your penalties, even if the penalty is disqualification. One of my fellow competitors knowingly broke the rules, and has admitted so, yet refuses to withdraw because it would......... You get the point.

 

I wonder how she would answer this.

Field Trip?

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If she, or anyone else in her class did not sail the proper course why was she (or they)scored? If the mark set boat at the (furthest) windward mark recalled her (or any other boat in that class and in that race) rounding said mark, why didn't they communicate this to RC? Why didn't the RC abandon this race?

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Not legit.

 

No forums or ability to comment publicly on her real site (drlaura.com).

 

Any of the radio stations she's on have forums?

 

Time for Clean to put up an article on the front page to get her attention (again).

 

All the California stations she's on are on AM. :lol:

 

edit #132414123 sweet fucking jesus, she's ONLY on AM.

Talk about has been.

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If she, or anyone else in her class did not sail the proper course why was she (or they)scored? If the mark set boat at the (furthest) windward mark recalled her (or any other boat in that class and in that race) rounding said mark, why didn't they communicate this to RC? Why didn't the RC abandon this race?

 

 

They were a markset boat and not equipped or allowed to 'black flag' people. It was not until they realized that the boat that sailed the shorter course had actually sailed the correct course. Thus, it was too late for a competitor to protest her. RAF is her only option.

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Here's another approach:

 

Get the owners and crews together and buy a really nice trophy that resembles, but is not quite like the actual series perpetual metal. Present it to her midway through the Ullman series, "we know you'd do anything to win, so we're giving you this trophy".

 

It's brutal, but even a rock would get the point.

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If she, or anyone else in her class did not sail the proper course why was she (or they)scored? If the mark set boat at the (furthest) windward mark recalled her (or any other boat in that class and in that race) rounding said mark, why didn't they communicate this to RC? Why didn't the RC abandon this race?

 

 

Why would the RC abandon the race? Just because most (but not all) the competitors couldn't figure out to sail the right course? Nah - that will teach them that the sheep mentality doesn't always work for the best

 

Are you saying that she sailed a longer course? The further windward mark? If that is the case then she may have sailed the course if she left the shorter weather mark to Port. No need to retire, just a bonehead move and if she placed well against the boat that sailed the shorter course...they must suck hard.

 

Read the post again - this time sloooooowly

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If she, or anyone else in her class did not sail the proper course why was she (or they)scored? If the mark set boat at the (furthest) windward mark recalled her (or any other boat in that class and in that race) rounding said mark, why didn't they communicate this to RC? Why didn't the RC abandon this race?

 

RC may not DNF boats for failing to sail the course properly. See def of "finish." RC has the option of protesting the offending boats but is not required to do so. If the RC properly signaled the course change, then there is no reason for the RC to abandon. It seems odd that this went only to arbitration, not to a full jury.

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KK,

When I get to a corner and see a course change flag, I know something is different. I may not be smart enough to know exactly what the change is, but I know what the flag is and what it means. Why should the RC abandon the race because some wanker couldn't figure out what a C flag means?

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My understanding is that everyone except one boat sailed the longer course. Of those who sailed the longer course, everyone happened to keep the short course windward mark to port except her. Basically, everyone screwed up except one boat, and all those who screwed up got lucky except her.

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It seems odd that this went only to arbitration, not to a full jury.

 

Maybe she's blowing someone on the committee? <_<

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RC may not DNF boats for failing to sail the course properly. See def of "finish." RC has the option of protesting the offending boats but is not required to do so. If the RC properly signaled the course change, then there is no reason for the RC to abandon. It seems odd that this went only to arbitration, not to a full jury.

 

 

As I understand it, there was no course change. The R/C changed the weather mark between starts, but kept the course the same. Thus, most of the boats in her class, including her, failed to catch the changed to a shorter windward mark. Only one boat did and they got protested for getting it right.

 

No good deed goes unpunished from that boat's perspective.

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As I understand it, there was no course change. The R/C changed the weather mark between starts, but kept the course the same. Thus, most of the boats in her class, including her, failed to catch the changed to a shorter windward mark. Only one boat did and they got protested for getting it right.

 

No good deed goes unpunished from that boat's perspective.

 

 

Maybe course change was a bad choice of words but there has to be something in the SIs to specify the mark change. My point is that if the RC followed the SIs there is no reason to abandon the race.

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It seems odd that this went only to arbitration, not to a full jury.

And that the scores weren't adjusted properly at the time.......

Kinda what I was getting at......

Sounds like the RC had no idea who had sailed proper course or not, and thus the root of my question.....

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A boot in your nuts.

 

 

I love all the kooky shit that happens in PHRF, like where the boats you're "racing" against are so spread all over you can't even tell if they're going around the marks correctly till you compare notes at the party later.

So classic

So I ask again: what's it rate?

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She was unlucky as hell. And while I'd drop out in that situation, I can see her point- "no harm- no foul."

 

On the other hand it would take a complete asshole to protest her since it was just luck that kept her from sailing the proper course like the other boats, (less one,) on the water.

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And, nobody saw her get caught between the R/C boat and a power boat on an end tie back at the club on Sunday. The R/C boat was a 40-50' catamaran that was backing into a slip with the windoon the beam. "Perfect" decided they could slide in when the cat needed to make another zig back out in their approach. Just a little patience would have prevent what could have been a whole lot worse. They got off easy.

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I am glad someone started this thread. A skipper talked to her in the morning before the race to give The “Doc” a chance to make the right decision. Then asked her after the race what she was going to do. The skipper has to much class to get into a pissing match over a “he said she said” so decided to drop it and chock it up to the “Doc’s” integrity. Whats done is done, she will not do anyhing about it.

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I sent this email through her website, addressed to her:

 

 

 

Dr. Laura,

 

I am writing to you as a fellow skipper. My name is Antony Barran and I am the skipper of the Antrim 40, XL.

 

I understand that in the third race this weekend (Cal Race Week) you failed to sail the proper course. And when this was brought to your attention, you chose to do nothing and keep a result you had not earned. Evidently, you did it for no other reason than it would hurt your chances of doing well in the Ullman Inshore Series. If this is true, then I am very sorry to hear it.

 

I race because I beleive it is a wonderful sport. I am proud of the fact that sailors 'call their own fouls', at times, upon themselves even. We believe it to be an honorable sport. What keeps it this way is a fastidious focus on living within the rules...all of them...not just the ones that work for us at that precise moment.

 

As a "great and passionate spokesperson" for doing the right thing, you of all people, should recognize your actions as wrong and do the honorable thing. Please, either drop out of the race or leave the sport. Becuase, as Paul Elvstrom once said: "without the respect of your competitors, you've won nothing."

 

So, I beseech you to make the right decision and drop out of the race. Becuase if you don't everything you say to help other people "do the right thing" is for naught.

 

Sincerely,

 

I'll let you know if I hear back from her.

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B)-->

QUOTE(Trevor B @ Jun 2 2008, 11:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
She was unlucky as hell. And while I'd drop out in that situation, I can see her point- "no harm- no foul."

 

On the other hand it would take a complete asshole to protest her since it was just luck that kept her from sailing the proper course like the other boats, (less one,) on the water.

 

 

Trevor,

 

Who's to say that by banging the left side of the course, hard, she didn't gain a spectacular unfair advantage. Because it was 'off the course' it was not an available option for any of the boats that sailed the correct course. How is that 'no harm - no foul"?

 

antony

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Antony,

The rest of the people could have banged the left corner too- they didn't know they were sailing the right course by hitting the right corner- they were just sailing the course the fastest way they could.

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B)-->

QUOTE(Trevor B @ Jun 2 2008, 05:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Antony,

The rest of the people could have banged the left corner too- they didn't know they were sailing the right course by hitting the right corner- they were just sailing the course the fastest way they could.

 

 

But then they would have sailed the wrong course...and should also have been DQ'd

 

You know what|? That's the real problem with the direction of our sport. No harm - No foul is not in the rules. It appears not where. How does that make it right.

 

Trevor, you go sail in the 'no harm, no foul' regattas...but count me out. Your argument is a very slipper slope as it requires the cheater define the level of damage to the others. It's a pity you see it that way.

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Antony,

As I said- I would have dropped out.

I'm the one who quit sailing inter-collegiate because I couldn't handle racing against people who cheated all the time.

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I don't quite get why one should be compensated for being "unlucky"

 

Man, if only the shifts had gone our way instead of the way they went, we totally would have won. They should give ME the pickle dish.

 

Honestly, it sounds like a case of an overly relaxed fleet. If true, this is a fleet of people who've gotten too used to running the same course over and over, and this has been a good wakeup call -- check the course Every Single Time, and make sure you check it late enough,

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B)-->

QUOTE(Trevor B @ Jun 3 2008, 12:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Antony,

As I said- I would have dropped out.

I'm the one who quit sailing inter-collegiate because I couldn't handle racing against people who cheated all the time.

 

 

Trevor,

 

right on. but don't you think we should hold everyone up to a standard we respect. Why dumb down our values?

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I think perhaps something is missing in the telling of this story. Antony, maybe you can fill in the blanks. In your first post you said the course had been shortened. But then a few posts later you said, it hadn't been shortened, they just moved the weather mark. But from your first post, it seems there had been two weather marks set, one well out, the other further in. Did the mark set boat MOVE one of the windward marks? were there indeed two windward marks out there? and if so what was the course inclusion of the inland mark on the SI's?

 

Now to the protest. Antony says that one of the boats that had sailed the 'long course' protested the one and only boat to sail the correct course. What was the protest for?

 

If indeed in arbitration it had been found that only one boat correctly sailed the course and the remainder, except for Dr. Laura got a hall pass under the string theory, why were the scores / penalties not finalized then?

 

I don't think we have all the details here. I also agree with Trevor B. The other guys who sailed the wrong course and came out roses because of the string theory were lucky. While I'm no fan of folks who paint their boats bright yellow and abuse people on the radio, in fairness, all the facts need to be put on the table.

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B)-->

QUOTE(Trevor B @ Jun 2 2008, 06:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
She was unlucky as hell. And while I'd drop out in that situation, I can see her point- "no harm- no foul."

 

On the other hand it would take a complete asshole to protest her since it was just luck that kept her from sailing the proper course like the other boats, (less one,) on the water.

 

Not that I have any dog in this fight - but - she didn't sail the course (from the description above) and SHOULD ask to get scored RAF. The RC didn't have to give her a finish if they were aware that she didn't sail the course.

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QUOTE(Trevor B @ Jun 2 2008, 11:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>She was unlucky as hell. And while I'd drop out in that situation, I can see her point- "no harm- no foul."

 

On the other hand it would take a complete asshole to protest her since it was just luck that kept her from sailing the proper course like the other boats, (less one,) on the water.

 

 

Trevor,

 

Who's to say that by banging the left side of the course, hard, she didn't gain a spectacular unfair advantage. Because it was 'off the course' it was not an available option for any of the boats that sailed the correct course. How is that 'no harm - no foul"?

 

antony

 

Anthony,

 

While I agree that she should ask to get scored RAF if she has ANY integrity; the above statement is bull and you know it. There is not any unfair advantage in sailing outside the laylines AND it is free for all to do it (as long as you sail the course naturally)

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Whatever the case may be about the RC moving the marks, it is clear that she was the only boat that did not round the correct mark. She had plenty of opportunity to make it right and she chose not to. She may have preserved her standings for the regatta and the series, but as far as I'm concerned she has lost the respect of her competitors.

 

Also, naming her boat Perfect does not exactly help her case in the court of public opinion.

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the above statement is bull and you know it. There is not any unfair advantage in sailing outside the laylines AND it is free for all to do it (as long as you sail the course naturally)

 

Christian - you're focusing on the wrong post. I happen to agree with you, but in the grand scheme of this thread it's not important.

 

You know what|? That's the real problem with the direction of our sport. No harm - No foul is not in the rules.

 

Here here.

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WORD.

Where in the hell do you gain a "spectacular unfair advantage" by sailing a few extra miles out of your way? Even if you happen upon a fortuitous shift out there in bumfuck Egypt, you've still sailed yourself off the edge of the planet and out of the race.

 

I happen to know this because I've done it and it's NEVER worked out to my advantage.

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I happen to know this because I've done it and it's NEVER worked out to my advantage.

Maybe you did not go far enough, go further next time. Let us know how it works out when you get back.:blink:

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There be dragons out there...

 

I've seen a lot of course change flags. If the next mark has been moved, the mark set boat is normally showing the C flag and a course to the new mark position. Was that the case here?

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WORD.

Where in the hell do you gain a "spectacular unfair advantage" by sailing a few extra miles out of your way? Even if you happen upon a fortuitous shift out there in bumfuck Egypt, you've still sailed yourself off the edge of the planet and out of the race.

 

I happen to know this because I've done it and it's NEVER worked out to my advantage.

 

Well I have certainly sailed way outside the layline several times in races where you have a clump of boats stuck in a hole and there is some wind outside the layline - essentially sailing around the clump-up. It has in some cases turned out to be a massive advantage - but not unfair - it is freely available to anybody in the race

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Having had contact with a couple people

 

mentioned in this thread

 

I must say:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Antony is:

 

A Great Stand-Up Guy

 

A Pleasure to have met and done business with

 

One of the people who make this sport what it is (to most people)

 

 

 

 

 

If more people were like Antony it would be a better world !!!!!!!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I leave mention of the other alone .....................................

 

 

 

 

However

 

"Going and doing the right thing" would be the right thing to do ;)

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Anthony,

 

While I agree that she should ask to get scored RAF if she has ANY integrity; the above statement is bull and you know it. There is not any unfair advantage in sailing outside the laylines AND it is free for all to do it (as long as you sail the course naturally)

 

 

Christian,

 

There is a huge chance of an unfair advantage to sailing a course different than that advised.

 

cheers,

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Christian,

 

There is a huge chance of an unfair advantage to sailing a course different than that advised.

 

cheers,

 

I think it is very seldom that there is ANY advantage to sailing a longer course. And as I said - if one were to not leave the marks to their required side one would NOT have sailed the course so it really is a moot point. If one pass all the marks on their required side one is free to do it via any course desired even if it is far outside the normal way of doing so - won't win many races but it does qualify as sailing the course.

 

In the currently discussed situation it sounds like one competitor didn't pass all the marks on their required side and hence didn't sail the course - where the questionable character did sail really doesn't matter as she didn't complete the course.

 

Let's leave the dead horse alone....................deal?

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saw lots of flags, never know what they mean other than from my test from the O...alpha bravo charlie dickhead echo foxtrot

what s it rate..good to see so many OD dudes too bad I was on the PH course and I have no idea what we rate.

how much coin u think madden has in SRM? to sail PH...wtf

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As most of you SoCaler's know I have made a few posts about her uncorinthian behaviour in Santa Barbara. Now that she's racing out of town maybe you can get the picture for yourselves. She will go to any length to win a bigger trophy.

 

Despite all the word salad about banging one side of the course or sailing a longer distance..the bottom line is that she was the only one in her fleet who did not do the course properly; did not round the proper marks. End of story. The idea that she will not come clean and show good sportsmanship is of no surprise to me.

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Antony -

 

Great sailing against you once again.

 

One thing not mentioned here, let us not forget about her crew. Perhaps she sails a smaller boat because it is harder to find crew willing to look the other way????

 

opusone

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Janer,

If we put together a big pool of vegetable oil, would you wrestle her for the rest of us? Someone needs to teach this broad a lesson.

 

please stop

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I think it's pretty clear from Antony's post: The R/C sent the fleet on the W/L with the shorter weather mark. The course for the previous race was a W/L to the longer weather mark. Only one boat noticed and sailed to the shorter weather mark. Everyone else got it right, by accident. She did not. She failed to sail the course, which, last time I checked, was a requirement in sailboat race.

 

The fact she would not withdraw is believable, and disappointing. If this is all true, I wish that her listeners and the callers to her radio show who voluntarily subject themselves to an upbraiding in the belief they'll be getting an ethical lesson would know about this.

 

In an amateur event, one of the reasons to put the time, money and effort into developing a program and sailing well is to gain the respect of those you sail against. If all this is true, she'll have a long road to re-earn even the grudging acknowledgement she's gotten to date.

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I'm with TrevorB on this: if it were me I'd laugh and raf, but if I sailed against her I would not protest or even write a letter. (I might take a dump on her boat tho')

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As a mere lowly photog

 

all of the did-didn't stuff don't matter

 

as a friend of "ALL" it does

 

 

 

 

What it boils down to is = to

 

arriving back at a watering hole (let's just call the race a watering hole)

 

only to be told you left and didn't pay your tab the night before (oh yea "I" done that)

 

 

 

 

 

 

You got's to make a choice and take a stand

 

sept it one case it's your gain "V" one bar-keeps loss

 

in the other case it's the acquisition of something everyone else knows you didn't win

 

and everyones else's loss

 

 

Like a little kid getting the home-run ball, only to have it slip out of her hands

 

as she hands it to her Mom (and you snag that free ball)

 

Yes the whole nation is watching and it shall be re-played over and over again

 

but you got the ball (pickle-dish) And that's all that matters (to you)

 

 

 

Hay looks like that kid spilled there drink !

 

WTF someone in the crowd tells you the kid is crying

 

YOU say "HTFU" It's Mine, but you can have the rest of my beer kiddo

 

 

You can rationalize it, and it's all good to you

 

This time around life, it is All about "YOU"

 

 

of note:

 

The Sea has a way of resolving un-filed protests :o

 

Eventually <_<;)

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Who's to say that by banging the left side of the course, hard, she didn't gain a spectacular unfair advantage.

 

Speaking of rules, there should be a rule against using the word "banging" in any thread about Dr. Laura.

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Woody, it seems you've ordered a side of opium with your rice....?

 

I have a plate full of Raccoon, Thank You !!

 

happy to see someone taking the other (dark) side <_<

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saw lots of flags, never know what they mean other than from my test from the O...alpha bravo charlie dickhead echo foxtrot

what s it rate..good to see so many OD dudes too bad I was on the PH course and I have no idea what we rate.

how much coin u think madden has in SRM? to sail PH...wtf

 

 

Madden has a bunch of coin in the boat. But they also sail it really, really well. Certainly, racing in three regattas against them upped our game a lot. And they've got some serious talent on the boat, from Weisman and Benny on down.

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Ant Tony....you need to get your facts straight. Dr. L was never confronted after the race on Saturday. And it was never discussed with the crew. Sunday we talked to one of the judges at breakfast and asked how the protest turned out against the Melges 30. They said the protest was thrown out. Our name never came up. So..........she has now withdrawn from the disputed race. And I repeat....Ant Tony you gotta get your facts straight before you spew. End of story.

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Ant Tony....you need to get your facts straight. Dr. L was never confronted after the race on Saturday. And it was never discussed with the crew. Sunday we talked to one of the judges at breakfast and asked how the protest turned out against the Melges 30. They said the protest was thrown out. Our name never came up. So..........she has now withdrawn from the disputed race. And I repeat....Ant Tony you gotta get your facts straight before you spew. End of story.

 

 

Ball Breaker,

 

I never presented them as facts. I presented it as a rumor I heard. Note the title of the post. That means that I was not absolutely sure of the facts. And, the results at CYC don't show that she has withdrawn. So maybe you should be absolutely sure of yours...before you call my posts 'spewing'. And until the results show an RAF, the story will live on. And if she has, don't you think it's sad that it took so much pressure for her to do the 'right' thing?

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has anyone seen Dr. Laura and Antony in the same room at the same time? hmmmm....

 

s.

 

 

we've been on the same dock at the same time.

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Ball Breaker,

 

I never presented them as facts. I presented it as a rumor I heard. Note the title of the post. That means that I was not absolutely sure of the facts. And, the results at CYC don't show that she has withdrawn. So maybe you should be absolutely sure of yours...before you call my posts 'spewing'. And until the results show an RAF, the story will live on. And if she has, don't you think it's sad that it took so much pressure for her to do the 'right' thing?

 

If I heard a rumor that someone cheated I would probably hesitate to post it on SA as a rumor of cheating. I might ask if/how a situation had resolved itself but I don't think I'd suggest cheating was involved (even if it was).

 

On the other hand facts are facts and if the facts prove that someone is cheating I would also not post it as a rumor; I'd post it as a fact. (but I'd be damned sure about it and get it in writing from the witnesses)

 

And then I'd probably regret getting into the middle of a shit fight.

 

Hey Ballbreaker: when did she RAF or request DNF? That is critical to her rep. Just because the results don't show the final does not mean it did not happen.

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Despite the fact that I told Dr L six months ago not to send me any more of her bullshit laden emails, she cc'd me on one this morning. The email was to the Regatta Chair of Cal Race Week. She states "I personally was unaware that there was an issue about PERFECT going around the same buoy as the other incorrect entrants" (her writing skills have never been very good, I'm not sure what an incorrect entrant is).

 

She goes on to state that she will withdraw from the race. What choice was there? She stepped in it again and this time they rubbed her nose in it. Will her egregious behavior be repeated in the future? Probably.

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Despite the fact that I told Dr L six months ago not to send me any more of her bullshit laden emails, she cc'd me on one this morning. The email was to the Regatta Chair of Cal Race Week. She states "I personally was unaware that there was an issue about PERFECT going around the same buoy as the other incorrect entrants" (her writing skills have never been very good, I'm not sure what an incorrect entrant is).

 

She goes on to state that she will withdraw from the race. What choice was there? She stepped in it again and this time they rubbed her nose in it. Will her egregious behavior be repeated in the future? Probably.

\

 

Incorrect: Improper, faulty.

 

Entrant: A person who enters.

 

WTF?

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Despite the fact that I told Dr L six months ago not to send me any more of her bullshit laden emails, she cc'd me on one this morning. The email was to the Regatta Chair of Cal Race Week. She states "I personally was unaware that there was an issue about PERFECT going around the same buoy as the other incorrect entrants" (her writing skills have never been very good, I'm not sure what an incorrect entrant is).

 

She goes on to state that she will withdraw from the race. What choice was there? She stepped in it again and this time they rubbed her nose in it. Will her egregious behavior be repeated in the future? Probably.

 

Sounds to me like she is still learning what is expected of her.

 

Too bad she was not proactive about it: walk over to the regatta pro and say "Hey, score me DNF on that last one. We fucked up on the course". Then when someone tries to whack her she can lay a trap for them and make them look stupid. You listening, Docky?

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Sounds to me like she is still learning what is expected of her.

 

Too bad she was not proactive about it: walk over to the regatta pro and say "Hey, score me DNF on that last one. We fucked up on the course". Then when someone tries to whack her she can lay a trap for them and make them look stupid. You listening, Docky?

 

Word.

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Sports Boat Number of Entrants: 13

Place Sail#

Bow# Boat Name Skipper Name BoatType Club 1 2 3 4 5 Total Points

1 104 Nemesis Geoff Longenecks Melges 30 SMYC 1 1 1 1 1 5

2 7227 Perfect Laura Schlessinger J/100 SBSC 5 3 3 2 3 16

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I think it's good to hear that Dr. Laura stepped up.

 

As has been stated, the SI's provided for two weather marks. Courses D, E, and F were for W1 (the inner mark) and courses G,H and I were for W2 (the outer mark). The SI's also provided that the color and the bearing of the mark would be signalled by flags. The class was signaled by another flag on a different hoist. So there were lots of flags flying, nothing too confusing, but you had to pay attention.

 

As we know from the posts, in one of the races, the RC signalled Course E, but all but one boat sailed Course H, which was longer. And of course, the only boat protested was the one that sailed the correct course.

 

After a long meeting with the PRO, the protest was withdrawn. Evidently, the protestor was persuaded that the protested boat HAD sailed the correct course, the protest was withdrawn, and evidently the protestor was persuaded that redress was not available because no error or omission by the RC was involved. It also seemed like all of the boats that sailed the longer course also rounded the inner mark on both laps. Evidently, this was not the case.

 

However, if anyone thought there was an issue, they had the obligation to file a protest. No protests were filed.

 

So, I guess I don't understand why there is so much whining about this issue. I guess all of you would drop out of the race if you mainsail trimmer inadvertantly pumped the main twice on a single wave (See R42.3©).

 

"But I didn't get any advantage..." I hear you say.

 

Well, evidently none of the competitors in her class believed that Dr. "Perfect" got enough of an advantage while sailing to the incorrect mark to warrant a protest.

 

It sounds like a lot of people don't like Dr. Laura. I understands that a lot of gay people hate her because of her position on "Gay issues." Maybe that's a good reason to trash her. But as far as I've seen, she is a strong competitor, she buys a lot of boats, and she takes a lot of people sailing. Her competitors didn't feel aggrieved enough to protest.

 

So, as I said before, why are YOU whining now?

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The fact is you all just like to give her shit because she is a celebrity, why the need to publically out someone?

 

No wonder your precious PHRF classes suck - everytime you get a new person in it you hassle them until they wish they never joined - You beg people to show up at your regattas and then make them wish they never did - Smart! I hope I never see a post by Anthony asking what is happening to our sport.

 

Try being sportsman like yourselves

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The fact is you all just like to give her shit because she is a celebrity, why the need to publically out someone?

 

No wonder your precious PHRF classes suck - everytime you get a new person in it you hassle them until they wish they never joined - You beg people to show up at your regattas and then make them wish they never did - Smart! I hope I never see a post by Anthony asking what is happening to our sport.

 

Try being sportsman like yourselves

 

 

Wheezy,

 

I would rather have smaller classes filled with sailors I can actually respect, than big classes filled with cheats.

 

Frankly, I am sick and tired of the slow slide to mediocrity that our sport has undergone over the previous 30 years. More and more, rules are ignored and deemed to be less than important.

 

In this years Ensenada race nearly a third of the boats that were inspected failed their inspections...and no one seemed to be too bothered by that number. At a recent local championships the winner, in a PHRF Race with the MIR Rule in effect, had a pro driving for several of the races. When I confronted him later, he said "oh, well, he's a good sailor and I didn't want him to be bored...so I let him drive". Both of them should have known better, but the pros only care about what the umpires see and that slippery slope is getting to our level.

 

Frankly the whole thing sucks, and the only way to fix it is to jump on the situation and fix it. If that scares people off from the sport, then they weren't the right people.

 

I'll give you a reasonable analogy. I work in advertising. A sister company, with whom I work is the largest Newspaper agency in the country. Now, Newspapers are a challenged medium. Circulation is dying and much of the rates are based on cost/thousand of audited circulation. So they are giving the paper away. Our sister agency beleives that if you eliminate all of the free and wasted subscriptions and reduce the circulation to those people willing to pay for it that it will mean more to the advertisers and the rates will go up. Same thing here, get rid of the cheats, and the sport will have an opportunity to grow again becuase its credibility will be restored.

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So, I guess I don't understand why there is so much whining about this issue. I guess all of you would drop out of the race if you mainsail trimmer inadvertantly pumped the main twice on a single wave (See R42.3©).

 

Jeez, you equate missing a mark of the course with an extra pump of the main?

That, sir, is incredibly far-fetched.

Go back to sleep now.

 

post-1224-1212516481.gif

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I think it's good to hear that Dr. Laura stepped up.

 

 

It sounds like a lot of people don't like Dr. Laura. I understands that a lot of gay people hate her because of her position on "Gay issues." Maybe that's a good reason to trash her. But as far as I've seen, she is a strong competitor, she buys a lot of boats, and she takes a lot of people sailing. Her competitors didn't feel aggrieved enough to protest.

 

So, as I said before, why are YOU whining now?

 

I thought this was about Dr. Luara :o:blink::unsure:

 

 

 

Never mind :lol:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Still haven't seen any proof of withdrawal

 

but if it occurred today, it was only after this topic

 

Good on ya Antony ;)

 

(the names have been changed to protect the innocent)

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A couple of weeks ago in Sag Harbor, NY we had a similar situation. There was a government mark that was supposed to be honored but it was part of a long beat so boats passed on both sides of it. People realized it only after one boat pointed it out on the radio. It was nice to see, without pressure, all of those who left it on the wrong side retire during the next week. It was about half the fleet. Lots of people do do the right thing.

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I think it's good to hear that Dr. Laura stepped up.

 

As has been stated, the SI's provided for two weather marks. Courses D, E, and F were for W1 (the inner mark) and courses G,H and I were for W2 (the outer mark). The SI's also provided that the color and the bearing of the mark would be signalled by flags. The class was signaled by another flag on a different hoist. So there were lots of flags flying, nothing too confusing, but you had to pay attention.

 

As we know from the posts, in one of the races, the RC signalled Course E, but all but one boat sailed Course H, which was longer. And of course, the only boat protested was the one that sailed the correct course.

 

After a long meeting with the PRO, the protest was withdrawn. Evidently, the protestor was persuaded that the protested boat HAD sailed the correct course, the protest was withdrawn, and evidently the protestor was persuaded that redress was not available because no error or omission by the RC was involved. It also seemed like all of the boats that sailed the longer course also rounded the inner mark on both laps. Evidently, this was not the case.

 

However, if anyone thought there was an issue, they had the obligation to file a protest. No protests were filed.

 

So, I guess I don't understand why there is so much whining about this issue. I guess all of you would drop out of the race if you mainsail trimmer inadvertantly pumped the main twice on a single wave (See R42.3©).

 

"But I didn't get any advantage..." I hear you say.

 

Well, evidently none of the competitors in her class believed that Dr. "Perfect" got enough of an advantage while sailing to the incorrect mark to warrant a protest.

 

It sounds like a lot of people don't like Dr. Laura. I understands that a lot of gay people hate her because of her position on "Gay issues." Maybe that's a good reason to trash her. But as far as I've seen, she is a strong competitor, she buys a lot of boats, and she takes a lot of people sailing. Her competitors didn't feel aggrieved enough to protest.

 

So, as I said before, why are YOU whining now?

 

There is no obligation for anybody to file a protest - there is an option

If a competitor violates any of the rules he/she has an obligation to take a penalty/retire from the race - and that is not optional or depending on gaining an advantage or not (except that IF an advantage is gained by the foul the ONLY option is to retire)

 

And YES - if we commit a foul we take the proper penalty without anybody having to prompt or protest us. Anybody, who wouldn't should get the hell out of sailboat racing!

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This is a bit of a hijack, but this reminds me of an Offsoundings race I was in a few years back. The RC had posted range/bearing to the first drop mark, which I dutifully plotted and found it to be curiously close to the first (govt) mark in the race. I didn't think it could be right so we scanned the horizon in the direction we were pretty sure they meant (based on historic races of this nature) and sure enough I picked up the 'weather' mark in a much more reasonable place, near Pt. Judith. We sailed that course and looked over our shoulders and realized that the age of the GPS was making our normally sane competitors act like utter loons. Almost to a boat, they were spinning around a point in the water where their GPS told them a mark must be, despite there being NO MARK. Of course, we started to wonder if we were wrong and perhaps the RC was testing a new marking paint where they simply paint an X where you're supposed to round. We ended up being one of two boats that sailed the 'proper course' in the ENTIRE FLEET. Result? RC threw out the whole race.

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RC on Course 2 this weekend was extremely conscientious, way beyond what's required in the rules, in giving competitors information on the radio regarding course, bearing, distance, mark colors, and warning times. It's really easy as a later start on the course to get into the habit of assuming that your course will be the same as the two classes ahead of you, especially if that has happened on the previous races. It's a bad habit, that's for sure.

 

In bigger DL rumors, was there a collision with the RC during a late start? Just curious.

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The fact is you all just like to give her shit because she is a celebrity, why the need to publically out someone?

 

No wonder your precious PHRF classes suck - everytime you get a new person in it you hassle them until they wish they never joined - You beg people to show up at your regattas and then make them wish they never did

 

Try being sportsman like yourselves

 

I definitely get the impression that you have neither the means nor the commitment to put together your own "precious PHRF" campaign. The people who make that commitment, to what you apparently think is a worthless endeavour, only do it because they love it. There's no imperative to do it; there's no prize money. Answer us this, does a "sportsman" classify organizing categories as "precious ____ classes" and say they "suck"?

 

No.

 

The contradiction in your statement, and the nonsensical admonition at the end make it absolutely irrelevant.

 

Dr. Laura has righted her wrong, assuming she has withdrawn as stated. If you think she's getting so much attention in this forum because she's a celebrity, you're right, but not for the reasons you state in the first line of your post.

 

Imagine a thread titled "Bill Everyman rumour from this weekend". Not many people are going to pay attention. Why? Because not many people know who "Bill Everyman" is. People pay attention when someone famous is involved. We're not responsible for the fact she's well-known. She is. No one is calling her out because she's a celebrity, but because by previously not righting her wrong she was enjoying an ill-gotten gain. I think questioning the merit of publically outing someone would be more apprpriate if asked of her. Read the SB Sailing thread and the surf shop story earlier in this post for more on that.

 

No one begged her to join any PHRF fleet. She's welcome to come play, as is everyone else. But she, like everyone else, has to play by the rules she agreed to when she signed up. That's being a sportswoman.

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Imagine a thread titled "Bill Everyman rumour from this weekend". Not many people are going to pay attention. Why? Because not many people know who "Bill Everyman" is. People pay attention when someone famous is involved. We're not responsible for the fact she's well-known.

Your post is right on, but I have to disagree with this statement. It seems that posts about Bill Everyman cheating get just as much play as about a celeb. SA's weird like that. Seems we like the shitfight more than the celebrity. Oh, and tits (but not Laura's).

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Jeez, you equate missing a mark of the course with an extra pump of the main?

That, sir, is incredibly far-fetched.

 

so we rate cheating on a curve now? good to know

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The other layer in all this is Dr. Laura's public persona of "do the right thing" and her constant moralizing on air. "Bill Everyman" doesn't spend a couple hours everyday on national radio telling people his opinion of right and wrong. The error made on the course, and the applicable rules remains the same no matter who commits the error. But the furor is understandably greater against someone who has a long history of trying to tell others what is right and wrong.

 

Its the same reason Elliot Spitzer caved in after his tryst. Had he not been so such an advocate prior to his fall, he may not have fallen so hard

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Your post is right on, but I have to disagree with this statement. It seems that posts about Bill Everyman cheating get just as much play as about a celeb. SA's weird like that. Seems we like the shitfight more than the celebrity. Oh, and tits (but not Laura's).

 

You have a point. I'd forgotten about the five-page 'Nautigirl's $30,000 tits' thread. :lol:

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You have a point. I'd forgotten about the five-page 'Nautigirl's $30,000 tits' thread. :lol:

 

 

So sweet of you to remember. Do you think Dr. Laura has any guys hiding down below??

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I still fail to see the "cheating" part of it ....

 

in other words all boats ( except the one) were cheating ?

 

Cheating to me is knowingly doing something wrong to give me an advance over the somebody who follows the rules. And I despise that as much as the next guy.. but this aint cheatin ...

 

Well if all the other boats would have dropped out and that Luara boat would have insisted to stay in the race,.... yes....

 

 

thor

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I still fail to see the "cheating" part of it ....

 

in other words all boats ( except the one) were cheating ?

 

Cheating to me is knowingly doing something wrong to give me an advance over the somebody who follows the rules. And I despise that as much as the next guy.. but this aint cheatin ...

 

Well if all the other boats would have dropped out and that Luara boat would have insisted to stay in the race,.... yes....

 

 

thor

 

She missed rounding the mark

 

You missed the point

 

Please withdraw or give us a 720 :o:lol::lol::lol:;)

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She missed rounding the mark

 

You missed the point

 

Please withdraw or give us a 720 :o:lol::lol::lol:;)

 

see it like this ...

she rounded the same mark as 99% of all other competitors

nobody filed a protest against her.....

 

she dropped out the race ( as far as we know anyhow)

still see no " cheating " happening ...

 

 

thor

 

doing circles as we speak ......

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I received a copy of the same email that Janer got. It confirms her request to be pulled from race 3. I got it from the president of her production company. I sent him the following reply:

 

Dear Mr. Rich,

 

Thank you so very much for forwarding this to me.

 

Please convey my appreciation to Dr. Laura for the actions she has taken on this issue. I really believe that what she has done was in the best interests of everyone involved. I know it was a difficult decision and I respect her greatly for having made the difficult, but right one.

 

Please also let her know that I look forward to seeing her out of the course and wish her the best of luck at Long Beach Race Week, the final leg of the Ullman Inshores.

 

Many thanks.

 

Cheers,

 

antony barran

 

I'd say we can put this one to bed...

 

Move along...nothing to see here.

 

 

 

or to steal a phrase from my wife:

 

Sanity Makes A Comeback.

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